Nov
01
Davidoff: Manny over Tex?
ByContinuing the non-stop Saturday coverage of Manny Ramirez comes a piece from Ken Davidoff. Unnamed Yankee insiders claim the team is more likely to wind up with Manny Ramirez than with Mark Teixeira, and Davidoff believes the determining factor is the number of years each player wants. While I’d like to see Manny in pinstripes, I have no qualms about committing to seven years of Mark Teixeira. I believe that Teixeira fills a need now and in the future and would have a greater impact on the team in the long run than Manny would in the short run. If I’m picking one, I take Teixeira.
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With ya on this Ben… Tex over Manny by far. We dont have an immediate 1b for the future and we got Ajax but also outfielders are easier to find in FA then a 28 yr old 1b like Tex
i hope this is just posturing.
i’m not against Manny, but i think Teixeira is a much smarter signing.
of course, this could just be the Yankees sending the message to Boras that they will NOT give Teixeira 10 years, which is his initial demand.
it’s interesting, b/c they are both Boras clients. so how do you use Manny as leverage in negotiating with Teixeira?
but then again, beware the “unnamed Yankee insiders”….
Tex
I dont think Tex gets more than 7 yrs 160
It’s not just Boras that engages in mass propaganda, the Yankees are masters of this too, especially on Fridays. This could be Hank tweaking Torre and the Dodgers. This could be the Yankees trying to drive up the value of Manny for the Mets. This could be the Yankees trying to stop the Yankees are interested in Tex chatter. This could also be simply getting the NY Press focused back on the Yankees.
There is no new news here. Hank could say Arod is a good player and AP (who is stalking the guy in Tampa) would lead with the story.
Everytime Hank sneezes his phone rings..
I don’t like Tex at 10 years at all. 7 years is still a bit much, 5 years would be perfect. Now if Tex would only sign for 10 years than I’d say take manny and giambi for now.
Giving Manny more than 2 years would be a huge mistake for any team. I’m not sure I’d even want the Yankees to go more than 1 year, if they were to sign him.
3 years for an AL team isnt crazy.. Hes got such a great bat.. 300 hitter with 30 hrs 100 plus rbis for 2 of those 3 years is great
He just worked his way out of essentially a 2 year deal for 40 mil, why would he want to sign a 2 year deal?
So Boras can get the commission….
And what does Manny get out of that?
Or did Boras supposedly hypnotize him into doing it?
I think the yanks are going to need to leave 1b open for the next few years as we have posada signed for another 3 years. Also, Jesus Montero is weak defensively but has the offense to play 1b…so figure he’s in the bronx after posada retires.
If the Yanks take the approach of leaving 1b open for Jesus ill be upset that they take that approach… Posada doesnt fit on this team as a DH or 1b.. He needs to catch and the yankees know that.. If he doesnt catch he will become a lost cause for 52 million… He held out for that 4th year that is going to hurt us
I hear what you’re sayin’ and I agree that 1st could be filled a number of ways. I still think Giambi is our 1st baseman next year. However, a plan to cobble it together for the next few seasons isn’t really a plan. It just means that we should and will have a limit to how far we go for Tex. But Tex IS a mighty good plan, 7 years or not.
Montero (and Romine for that matter) could be good catchers in MLB. I’d rather plan to have A-Rod at first than to shortchange Montero’s development so early.
Im ready for Gman to goo. Hes cursed like Pavano.. Arod wont have to move to 1st.. hes very athletic and in great shape
Why isnt Dunn being talked bout more a 28 yr old outfielder who we could use.. Guy who is in his prime
Hideous defense, without the storyline of being Manny Ramirez.
With the age on this roster, signing more DHes (Manny, Dunn, Burrell) is just stupid. If they’re going to spend a bunch of money, sign a guy who’s a plus in the field right now and will probably be at least ABLE to play the field throughout his whole contract.
I would like Dunn to be a Yankee but I guess I agree with you on this. However, if a trade market for one of the DHs opened up–either Damon or Matsui–I’d say make an attempt to sign Dunn. A lefty who hits 40 homers and walks 100 times? Fine with me.
ManRam for 3 years sounds like a great idea, but how much does his defense hurt his overall productivity? Put him in a lineup with ARod and you’ll have two offensive monsters, but if he ends up playing the OF like he has been, the impact of his offense might be taken down a couple of notches, much like Abreu’s 2008 season (worst OF in baseball, so I guess ManRam might actually be an improvement).
If Manny Ramirez is coming here, he better come here for a two year contract and be a full time DH.
Teixeira.
1) Younger.
2) Not a head case.
3) Improves fielding.
4) Balances out the lineup better.
5) Our new number 3 hitter.
6) Grew up a Yankees fan.
If the Steinbrenners are focused on winning and are going to give Cash the bankroll, I think it’s his duty to explain to them the talent that is out there this season.
$80 million comes off the books this year.
2008:
Moose, Pettitte, Giambi, Pavano, and then a bunch of insignificant money
2009:
Matsui, Damon, Molina (13+13+2 = 28 million)
2010:
Jeets, Mo, (21+15 = 36 million)
That’s basically rough off the top of my head.
The point here is that if we can get Manny on a bloated 2 year deal (22-25 million per? I don’t know) and then sign CC and Tex long term, the Yanks are basically washing a ton of payroll. Yeah it ADDS big contracts, but the players are of high quality and I think it’s well worth it.
If Cash can cut bait with some of the “icons,” I think we’d be in good shape. Couple that with the low cost players we have coming up and I think the payroll will be pretty manageable. Now, what defines “manageable” in terms of payroll is certainly not my decision, but if it stays at or around $200 million I think things are “normal.”
Cash needs to explain that this is a good idea and show what will be happening over the next few years. The biggest problem with the Yanks during the early 2000s was that all of their stars were on huge contracts. The payroll only expanded. Who was the last big time Free Agent that the Yanks let go (payroll wise)? This is a good year for us. I haven’t looked at the future of Free Agency, but CC, Tex, and Manny are HUUUUGE.
This news follows a disturbing trend that’s started since George got too old to run the club. Sheffield instead of Guerrero, Damon instead of Beltran, now, god forbid, Manny instead of Teixeira. Going for an old guy for a few years rather than a young stud that you can build around. We’ve all seen the putrid results of that strategy this year, why can’t Cashman, Hank and Hal? It looks like their priority is to hold down costs, not win titles. If that’s what these three are up to – please sell the team and get rid of Cashman – now.
hey, it’s ortforshort’s twin brother!
again, it WAS George who signed Sheffield instead of Guerrero, who Cashman was negotiating with. and it was George’s insistance on RJ that made them pass on Beltran.
how do people not know this? you have it completely backwards.
also, the Steinbrenners spent almost $400M last winter on A-Rod, Posada, and Mariano. WTF are you talking about?
If the Yanks are unable to Teixeira, I wouldn’t mind seeing them sign Manny. However, if the Yanks don’t sign Teixeira, I don’t think they will go after Manny. I think a trade for a first baseman is more likely to happen. Cashman wants an actual first baseman or something of the kind, or whatever that quote was.
Tex or any other player at more than 5 years is dumb. For the kind of money they are talking about and with what is invested in Alex the Purple Lipped Princess already I do not see that happening.
Manny at 3 years with a ton of money and a lot of incentives on top of that is the move.
Manny is not among the top 5 best hitters in baseball. He IS the best hitter in baseball. If he is not a Roider he is the best hitter in baseball in at least 15 years.
ATPLP….LOL
lol 2nd that atplp is mad funny but Pujols is better than MAnny
Who plays first base?
A platoon of Don Mattingly and Tino Martinez.
Manny the best hitter in baseball? I think some guy in St. Louis might beg to differ…
You mean the guy who has never had to face the elite pitching of the AL? You mean the guy who needs to play a number of years before he is even in the same class of hitter that Manny is?
Manny hits good pitching better than any player I have ever seen. That has slipped SOME but not a whole lot. Now if he is on the juice that could be part of the reason, but I would not look at a Albert P. type of body type and think that juice is out of the question either.
Dude cmon Pujols is awesome.. He would tear up the AL just like the NL.. Pujols is amazing.
What bum hitter did he ever turn into a god like Manny did to Lil Papi? Big Papi is back to being Lil Poppi.
Thats what your basing it on ? If I remember correctly 2003 or 2004 he was a beast and made Rolen and Edmonds something special.. I know they were already established but that was such a sick lineup… Pujols would do the same for a guy like Papi it dont matter… Albert is by far and away the BEST hitter in baseballl plus he doesnt have the “character” issues that Manny has but thats besides the point
You mean the guy who needs to play a number of years before he is even in the same class of hitter that Manny is?
this is crazy.
Look at the number of years Manny has been an elite hitter. I am not saying that Alberto V05 may not one day attain such lofty goals, but as of today he has not has as long of a career.
As far as the fellow with the comment about Rolen and Edmonds. Puuuuleeeeeeeeeze. Rolen was a very good to great hitter in his own right before he even donned the STL hat. Jimmy Edmonds was also a pretty solid guy before as well. Bad arguement.
Now some stat geeks can do some digging to make any one of us look good or bad in our stances. But for the guy who has watched them both hit, he would say Alberto has some work to do.
I could hit some of that ole NL pitching that Albert does, heck I have.
Look at the number of years Manny has been an elite hitter. I am not saying that Alberto V05 may not one day attain such lofty goals, but as of today he has not has as long of a career.
ok, i see what you are saying now.
your point wasn’t clear at first. Pujols is clearly in Manny’s class as a hitter right now.
what you are saying is that Manny has done it for much longer. that is obviously true.
“ok, i see what you are saying now.
your point wasn’t clear at first. Pujols is clearly in Manny’s class as a hitter right now.
what you are saying is that Manny has done it for much longer. that is obviously true.”
In a tight spot in a big game I still take Manny over Pujols.
Manny seems to have an extra level he can crank it up to in big spots and nobody else I have ever seen that can do it with such power and average in those situations.
And yes I was saying Manny has done it longer, that was one of my key points, in case that was not clear at first.
Your still wrong even if Im wrong about Rolen and Edmonds.. Pujolls is amazing… Here is a lil stat 162 game average
Pujols –334 avg 42 hrs 128 rbis 91 bb 66 k
Manny- 314 41 133 93 bb 128 k
So Manny beat him out in rbis and walks by a slim margin… That makes him better.. Pujols has been amazing since the first time he stepped in the batting box.
Dude, what the hell you are talking about?
Pujols is the best hitter in baseball period. The dude never K’s and walks alot, hit for power, avg and etc. Hell he’s also a terrific 1st baseman defensively.
Pujols can hit any pitching period. For crying out loud, Pujols #’s are the best to start a career since Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio. Plus, he’s often considered the best pure righthanded hitter since Joe Dimaggio.
What I am talking about is HITTING good to great pitching. I am talking about making the guys around him into feared “best ever clutch hitters”. Now I do not believe Ortiz was ever the best ever clutch hitter but he was talked about in that way.
You are off the path when you talk about fielding. Yes Albert is a top quality glove man for a guy who can hit the way he is. Albert is a MUCH better baseball player than Manny ever was or will be. If i had to take ONE guy as a player in their prime for my team I take Albert.
BUT, if I need a guy on my team in the playoffs. I take Manny. I take him in his prime, I take him now vs Albert now. Plus we got NO shot at getting Albert. Another thing Albert already is having injury issues.
Manny hitting behind Alex the Purple Lipped Princess would make our lineup unmesswitable (cleaned that up for you)
Albert Hits great pitching. Your just saying that cuz you don’t see him as often as Manny does.
Again, Pujols first 8 seasons of his career are the most dominate in baseball history not name Ted Williams.
Plus, for the last couple seasons he has had no protection in that lineup and by the way you don’t think Ryan Ludwig benefit from having Pujols behind him?
Sure Manny did it longer, but Pujols is the best hitter in the MLB period.
Albert Pujols could hit any pitcher, any time, any where. He’s every bit the hitter Manny is or ever was.
Pujols is a Hall of Famer already and Manny was not when he was in that stage of his career
Yeah but that said and agreed, Doesn’t it always see that King Albert always has some kind of injury? Not prolonged obviously but I dont know it just seems like this guy is 1 bad injury from being” the guy that could have”
I must agree with you Manny is one of the best hitters of all time. The guy can just plain hit and although Pujols is a great hitter he is not in Manny’s class.
Manny is not the answer to making the Yanks a better team. It is disgusting what he did in Boston. They held a contract he agreed and he played his way out of it by being a punk. Character wise he is not someone I’d like to root for. And why would anyone who knows this guy is motivated by money give him what could amount ot his last contract?
Even baseball wise I think his best days are behind him so for me Tex is an easy choice. He has better defensive skills. He plays a position that is a bigger need at the moment. If we don’t sign him I imagine it is going to cost us via trade. Plain and simple Tex is just a better fit.
On an unrelated note, who else thinks that Phil Coke could end up being the lefty starter we need, coming out of nowhere? I think the guy is still underrated, I mean his fastball velocity jumped tremendously this year. He went from high-80s to low-90s and has a lot of confidence in his stuff. I like him as a MLB starter, for real.
Hes definitely going to be a productive pitcher no matter how we use him.
How you know that? Your basically basing it on 14IP.
Yes, I basically am. The kid has the make up to be a good pitcher. Good stuff, Good attitude.
Hes better off as a reliever as far as I understand
Ok well heres how i see it. Can we try for Dunn? He cant field from what i understand but wow would that be something.
Dunn-Damon-Nady
then
Arod-Jeter-Cano-Tiexera
Posada
DH: Matsui.
SP:
Wang Joba A.J. Pettite Coke/Hughes.
Is this much of a longshot?
Im cool with that. But Id like to see CC because I would love to see him out there and beast complete games out.
Yeah but what im saying is that if we just get AJ and maybe another step below SP we can invest more in our offense. I know SP is the priority but that lineup is nuts and not so unrealistic.
O dude im a huge fan of AJ’s but you get shit on here for liking him
Yea well its just my opinion.
I mean this lineup would be killer.
Damon/Jeter/Tex/A-rod/Dunn/Nady/Posada/Matsui/Cano.
Yup I had that in the last post
Sry, havent been on here today, VERY hungover from last night lol.
lol its all good
So would you take that rotation?
Wang/AJ/Joba/Pettite/ Coke/Hughes?
AJ honestly isn’t too exciting for me. Great stuff, mediocre results.
Maybe the NYC hype will help him focus. Maybe he can be the next Doc Halladay lol
I do think he will like pitching in the states more in a city where baseball is a focus.. Remember when he made those comments bout going to the Cubs. It could of been all bullshit but honestly if your in a position to be in the playoffs every year with fans like us it has to be better than pitching in hockey country
Ya PEttite or Moose just not both.. With Hughes as 5
I didnt factor moose in my plans but by all means. If we can get moose over pettite i think i would pull the trigger. but the thing is we need a lefty starter and nobody knows how coke will actually do.
Infact, Maybe oliver perez? Wang/Joba/AJ/Perez/Hughes/Moose
That i will do.
Ya man idk.. Burnett is prob a better bet than Perez. I do like how PErez is that young tho
No you can have both AJ and Perez. I’m just saying. if moose comes over pettite which i doubt will happen we will need that lefty SP
Id like CC AJ Wang Joba and Hughes but that wouldnt leave enough money for Tex/Dunn/Manny I think… We probably could afford it but it might be too much..
Manny isnt in my plans. Plus what do you do with him? DH? then what do you do with matsui? a 13 million Dollar platoon guy? Forget it. Im trying to assemble a good team but not going over my head
All are you guys are crazy. Now i would take texierra in a heart beat…but saying you guys dont want manny ramirez is friggin stupid. Put this guy in the right enviorment and he thrives. He went to LA and he was the best hitter by far in the second half…he siad he wants to come to the yankees and kill the sox and he will destroy the red sox once he faces them. And not to mention what this will do for ARod. This will take media attention off of Arod some and if you put Arod at the 3 spot and Manny clean up I guarntee Arod will hit close to 60 homeruns. Manny will be a great signing.
LOL close to 60 hrs
And to all you morons who want Dunn….you guys need your friggin brain checked. This guy strikes out 200 times a season and cant play first base….might as well keep giambi!
Honestly dude I vote for you for the award of nicest guy on RAB
That’s funny. I actually didn’t think you sign a Left fielder to play first base if TEX is in your plans. BUT, that’s just me. And you would take a guy, who is a shell of what he used to be, who sucks with RISP, who is 10 years older than Dunn? Dude you are smoking some hardcore shit.
And Dunnn is good because he has hit the 3rd most home runs in the majors since 2002.. He sees leads the league in pitchers per plate appearance with 4.32 something the Yankees could use. He is durable, he walks all the time and hes got a great ops.. Lastly he will not be commanding the type of money Manny will per year ya kno what I mean… 4 years 60 mill might get it done and thats awesome for the production he gives you.
Fuck the heck just happened to the Rangers?
Idk. I’m watching the Nets.
CDR !!!
Huh?
Chris Douglas Roberts
Oh. Yeah and Ryan Anderson and Brook Lopez are looking good.
I love Vince Carter but they messed up giving him that HUGE deal.. They have a bit of a youth movement going also.. Devin Harris is gonna be one of the best PG’s in the leage one day…imo
Yeah i loved jason kidd. I think richard Jefferson was the “gay net” but he was one hell of a baller. They have young guys but young ones that are ready to play some ball.
Ya but the Kidd deal was great.. Mavs got hosed
For sure. Similar to the Shaq Suns deal. Lawrence Frank is a coaching genius. He, one day will be one of the best in the league.
Wow. Just … wow.
I have got to tell ya I been watching alot more hockey ever since Ive read your comments about NHL 09 and hockey.. It is a great game and Im glad I finally got into it… Rangers fell apart there eh ?
5 goals allowed in 5:22 … yeah, fell apart doesn’t quite do it justice. Nothing like seeing defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.
“You think thats bad remember the time I had dinner in Mexico with Gary Coleman”
A shell at what he use to be? The fucking guy hit 400 in the second half of the season! Your telling me you would rather get a guy who hits .220 and strikes out 200 times a season just because he is 28. We couldnt hit with RISP at all last year and Manny is one of the best run producers ever. You guys are the human beings who give baseball fans around the world a bad name.
Once again you are the nicest guy here
Dude you need to calm you shit down. You are violating the RAB commenting guidlines. And yes. Dunn is slightly better with RISP. And Giambi, Post all-star break hit a pity .239
calm your*
If you have a guy who can do the same thing, and is younger, better power numbers, and fills a hole why the hell wouldnt you do it?
To me choosing between Manny and Tex is a no brainer. Tex all the way. I wouldn’t give Dunn the light of day because he’s not a great hitter and his fielding sucks. Yeah, he can get his HR’s and some walks but strikesout a ton for that just keep Giambi, who gets on base way more and sucks at fielding. Since, I am not a fan of bringing back Giambi, why would I want Dunn? Who is basically a Giambi clone with not as good of an eye at the plate.
If they sign Manny Ramirez I am selling my season tickets and will NEVER go to another Yankee game.Also…Hank Steinbrenner is an idiotic baffoon.
REally ? You would never go to another game.. Find that hard to believe
I am absolutley serious. I am already less than enthused now that they are tearing down the old stadium as it is..add Ramirez and I am DONE.
I don’t think it will hurt the Yankees much if you sell your tickets…someone else will pick them up. 27/09.
Man thats kinda retarted. He is a productive hitter. Now if they were to sign carl pavano long term again then for sure i would say sell the tickets… better yet, give them away for free!
He is a disgrace in so many ways. A discredit to baseball and any team he is on.
I hear you man. I can’t argue that he is an awful character unless he wants a paycheck but i dont think we have to worry about him signing anyway
How much you want for them?
I just won’t pay the invoice.
PS
That is, unless they sign him to clean the bathrooms or something like that…something is he intellectually suitable for.
I have been a lifelong Yankee fan, but what has been happeining with this team over the recent years has made me start to waiver in my enthusiasm…never thought it could happen.
Billion dollar stadiums with premium seaing and martini bars…absolute embarrassment named Hank Steinbrenner…..headcase, nutcase Arod….snubbing Joe Torre at the last game ceremony…it goes on and on and I don’t much like it.
tl;dr
Are you feeling better now? How long is lifelong…10-20 years? This is Still a Free Country, Yet…so, one can rant all they want. Why is it the young think with their feelings instead of their brain?
If the team signs Manny, so what…we can’t do anything about it.
Hate the signing…not the team! I will be one of the haters also. But, come hell or brimstone…They are My Yankees! 27/09.
More like 45 + years.
If Manny is signed then it just drives home why I feel like the Yankees are becoming something other than the Yankees I have always loved.
Things change. With them moving across the street it might just be time for me to find other ways to spend my money and my time.
Ok to put this more simply for you all Dunn is just a more expensive Giambi who actually hits for a lower Ave… Put aside the hatred for manny and think of what kind of player you are getting hits 300+ 30+ and 100+ not to mention he wants to be here and is one the the most clutch hitters in the game right now he will fill the number three hole in the line up and take a huge load off arods back easy sign if you ask me!!
So plug manny in the three hole? And have 3 righties maybe 4 in a row? forget it man.
I appoligize to anyone i offended but idiotic statements like signing adam dunn over manny ramirez just makes me angry. I agree that Hank Steinbrenner is a moron because he knows nothing about baseball and just runs his mouth over and over again.
Nobody said Dunn over Manny. Manny wasn’t really an element in that conversation. Apology accepted. Just take it easy big guy, and remember we are all fans of the same team.
Without question I take Tex. First he’s a hell of a lot younger. He’s a better fielder by a mile and although he’s not as good as Manny at hitting he’s still a great hitter in his own right. The best thing being that he’s a switch hitter. Put together Tex’s game far surpasses Manny’s. Manny is a great hitter and nothing else. Since he is older his bat will decline far faster than Tex’s complete game.
Cash don’t pass on Tex, he’ll be a great fit to go with CC.
That’s funny. I actually didn’t think you sign a Left fielder to play first base if TEX is in your plans. BUT, that’s just me. And you would take a guy, who is a shell of what he used to be, who sucks with RISP, who is 10 years older than Dunn? Dude you are smoking some hardcore shit……That was Joey H reply to my comment about Manny.
Joey H. Dunn with RISP:.241
Ramirez with RISP: .355
Not even close.
it was dunn and giambi. dont try to turn it around. IT WAS NOT ABOUT MANNY.
what are you talking about the whole post is about manny?
My comment wasnt.
ill get both dont care they both produce and we need to replace giambi and abreu pay for them but get the pitching first