Manny being ridiculous
ByOh, Manny, Manny, Manny. What ever will baseball do with you?
At age 36, Manny Ramirez had a season for the ages. Spending time in Boston and Los Angeles, Manny hit a combined .332/.430/.601 with 37 HR and 121 RBI. Despite racking up just 229 NL plate appearances, he finished fourth in the league’s MVP voting, and the writers wouldn’t have been wrong had they given him the award.
With free agency looming, he seemed to be playing inspired baseball, and clearly, he was hoping for a big pay day. Well, the Winter Meetings have come and gone, and Manny is still unemployed. The Dodgers have offered him a two-year deal, and the team is prepared to wait him out. In other words, if Manny realizes that nothing will top that offer, the Dodgers will tack on a third year and call it a deal.
For his part, though, Manny will have none of it. In fact, the Manny Ramirez camp has unleashed the retirement “threat” on the baseball world. According to Ken Davidoff, sources close to Manny say the slugger would retire if no team were to offer a deal to his liking. In a line straight out of the Dugout, Manny supposedly spends his days working out, watching cartoons and playing video games.
Now, clearly, Manny isn’t going to retire. He seems rather focused on some personal milestones. Both 600 HR and 3000 hits are within his reach. But these are the antics that lead teams to stay away from Manny Ramirez. Personally, I’d love to stick Manny’s bat into the middle of the lineup. Bat him fourth of fifth behind A-Rod, and the Yanks would pummel opposing pitchers.
Then, I realize that we’d have to deal with Manny’s mood swings too. We’d have to deal with his tendency to remove himself from games at key points, his tendency to threaten retirement, his tendency to do the whole Manny being Manny thing. Is it worth it? Probably. But it’s not a shock that teams aren’t rushing to sign Manny Ramirez when his camp starts dropping the r-word as though Manny’s retirement is a threat to anyone other than Manny.
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I find Manny tempting, but he is like the really hot chick that you can’t take your eyes off of, only to find out she’s a bitch.
In manlier terms, he could do to the Yankees what he did to Boston. I think we’d be better off with Dunn in that case.
From a pure baseball perspective, no team is better off with Dunn over Manny. It’s just from all the other stuff he pulls.
but Dunn may cost half the price.
doesnt matter, Manny is twice as good.
i still dont get the pinching pennies aspect to Yankees fandom.
if you are going to spend, just spend it on the best player available, period.
between Dunn and Manny, its not like you are buying into them for the ‘whole player.’ neither one of them is really worth much in terms of defensive ability, so the reason for the signing is related to offensive production.
Manny is a better hitter than Dunn. thats not even debateable.
so if you are going to spend money to upgrade the offense, just spend it on the best offensive player available.
I always hesitate when I hear about these Boston icons who suddenly become “a cancer”. I remember how badly Garciaparra got villified before they shipped him out.
It was A-Rod, Jeter and Garciaparra dueling for best SS in the MLB. He was a hero in Fenway.
And then he was the devil.
If I remember correctly, Manny wanted to know if the Red Sox were going to exercise his option. They didn’t want to answer, so he started dogging it. Is that such a ridiculous request, to know if you’re going to be a FA at the end of the year?
I understand that he should be focused on the season, not the winter, but we know all guys in contract years think about it so lets not pretend Manny’s wrong for doing it. Now, using that as an excuse to beg out of games is completely inexcusable. But come on, the Red Sox didn’t know that Manny was capable of something like that? They know how much of a head-case he is. And they gave him a reason to force their hand and ship him out.
So yeah, they probably lost Type-A compensation. They also picked up a great young outfielder in the process. Yes, they traded Craig Hansen, a guy who never got his control together and probably didn’t have a place in their bullpen with Masterson making room for himself and Bard on the way. And they got to look like the good guys in all of it because Manny left them with no other option.
Sorry. That situation has been bugging me for awhile.
“…he could do to the Yankees what he did to Boston.” … win 2 championships? DARN!
“If I remember correctly, Manny wanted to know if the Red Sox were going to exercise his option. They didn’t want to answer, so he started dogging it. Is that such a ridiculous request, to know if you’re going to be a FA at the end of the year?”
Well, it is ridiculous to expect a definitive answer in mid-season. His contract said that the team didn’t have to decide that until after the World Series ended. If he wanted an answer sooner, he should have negotiated a different decision date into the contract. For example, a decision on Rocco Baldelli’s 2009 option was required before the start of the 2008 season. Manny could have negotiated for that if that’s really what he wanted.
As for your Nomar comment… I think the opinions on him started changing in early ’04 when he started coming down with injuries and took his time coming back. I was at the game where Jeter did his suicide dive into the stands, and I think that’s when opinions of Nomar really changed. I know mine did that night. Jeter almost killed himself making a play. Giambi had just come off the DL from an intestinal parasite and was about to go back on with a pituitary tumor, yet he played despite barely being able to hold a bat. While all this was happening, Nomar just sat on the bench staring, never moving, with no interest in joining the game. At the time I was shocked he didn’t come in the game, so I’m sure the Red Sox weren’t thrilled either.
I find it curious.
Garciaparra was done when his body started breaking down from the juice. The red sox unloaded him when they saw these signs. They are very business like and let go of a fan favorite which is what the cubs did with prior. Don’t think these clubs didn’t get what they could out of the steroids era. The sox will trash any reputation to save face in the press and public opinion. They have done it with Fisk, Lynn, Vaughn, Clemens,Burks, Garciaparra and Manny, Some have gone on to great post sox careers. Point being they try to sell their fans on the grass is always greener. I guarantee if manny is a Yank He will be motivated . He will be part of a proffessional organization and can relax be himself and crush the red sox.
Is it really find out, as much as already know?…but she’s just so hot.
Dunn isn’t coming here. The last thing they want is another non athletic def liability. If you are going to do that just get Manny who at least is the best hitter in the game.
Wrong…..Pujols best hitter in game
Agreed, but Manny is real close (and I hate Manny!)
sure, maybe right now.
but the last 10 years, its Manny.
and Manny is still top 5 in the game right now, and Pooholes isnt a free agent.
Pujols will be the greatest hitter, but right now it’s Manny.
No right now it is Pujols
If the Dodgers snooze on Manny, would the Yankees be involved for a 2-3 year deal?
Which would put Manny on the same timeline as Sabathia’s opt out.
No pictureNothing can describe Manny Ramirez more succinctly: http://tinyurl.com/6y4rbuManny would alleviate all the pressure off A-rod, whom in turn would have himself a monster yr.. I would love to sign Manny for 2 yrs, and make hi mthe highest paid player at 30 million per yr.
I would love to sign Manny for 2 yrs, and make hi mthe highest paid player at 30 million per yr.
That would certainly put Alex in a funk.
Bats like his don’t come around every day. Dude is one of the best RH hitters ever and is still producing like a machine. His OPS+ last year was 164, ABOVE his career of 155. I understand talking about a decline in performance when you’re talking about mortals, but this is Manny and the guy knows how to hit a baseball. If he can be gotten on a 3-year deal I’d do it in a heartbeat.
Give me the drama. I can put up with it if he produces. Winning is winning.
ahahah I love Manny. Most hilarious dude..
confession: i’ve started hoping the yanks don’t get tex or manny (or dunn/burrell/bradley/etc) and are forced to play a scrappy national-league type of game in 09 and beyond. grit beards for everyone! it would help if the outfield defense weren’t so crap-tastic
They’d have to start by trading Canó, Posada, Matsui, and half each of Jeter and A-Rod for white players. That would increase the team’s “grit factor” exponentially.
the 09 yankees will break the grittiness color barrier!
the 09 yankees will be so scrappy/gritty/hustle-y they’ll make enos slaughter look like jose cardenal!!!
on a related note, dunkin’ donuts coffee is very strong…
even if the loss of abreu/giambi isn’t made up for by swisher/more posada/better cano, i like our chances with
cc
burnett (if healthy, a big if)
wang
joba
pettite/hughes/anyone not from aruba
small ball in ’09!
Personally I’d love to see Manny in NY. I live outside Boston and have always thought that the Red Sox are dysfunctional when it comes to managing personalities, the same way the Philadelpia Eagles are dysfunctional and could not handle TO for more than 1 year. Whether you want to believe it or not, you have to treat every player as an individual and the Red Sox could not find a way to manage Manny. The guy just wanted to play ball, he really never cared that much for championships, whatever. For him it was just playing ball.
His agent surely got in his head, but really, what did the Sox accomplish by stalling ? Nothing. If they told him they were picking up his option, they get a solid 2008, but eventually in the final year as a lame duck, manny would have done about the same thing in 2009. And if you told him you were declining the option, he would have pushed for a trade anyhow. And really, how is that different than what most teams do with a free agent to be ? You trade them before they leave you with nothing.
All the drama in Boston was of their own making. Yes, Manny is a space case, but he is also one of the best hitters ever. find a way to deal with him and win a lot of games. Simple as that.
Do you really think Giradi can manage personalities? Torre yes, this Joe that we have…nope
good point
Oh, and I agree 100% with doty25, signing manny makes A-rod a completely different player over night. Nobody will want to talk about Alex anymore.
i keep forgetting the “take the spotlight off of alex” angle to signing manny, and every time some smart person brings it up i agree. how many position players on the planet have the combination of talent and insanity to allow alex to blend into the background? exactly one
I think this is the funniest thing I’ve read in a while. Can’t you just see him sitting indian style on the floor in footie pjs watching cartoons with video game controls on the floor??
Oh, and for the people making a big deal out of him taking himself out of the game, he did it once this season against Mo.
Now, I suppose you’ll say what about all those times he doesn’t run hard down the line…. It bothers me, but not that much.
Manny knows when to play hard.
plus it’s MO. come on. he knew he would’ve been smote.
“We’d have to deal with his tendency to remove himself from games at key points, his tendency to threaten retirement, his tendency to do the whole Manny being Manny thing. Is it worth it? Probably. ”
No it’s not worth it because when his bat goes then your left with all the bull shit. And the chances of his bat going are getting better as he goes further away from 36 years of age.
No teams are biding for him get the hint and move on.
What makes you think his bat is going? He had a monster year last year and showed no signs or his bat slowing down. I would take manny as a Dh in a heartbeat
And the chances of his bat going are getting better as he goes further away from 36 years of age
Of course that is a possibility, but in looking at his numbers, there’s not much to suggest that.
Are either of you willing to take that chance at 20 to 25 million a year for the next 3 to 4 years?
i am, yeah.
3 years, $60 million for Manny to get up and hit 4 or 5 times a day behind ARod? absolutely.
Are either of you willing to take that chance at 20 to 25 million a year for the next 3 to 4 years?
I would offer that kind of money to Manny for 2 years with a 3rd year performance vesting option. No way would I go 4 years.
my completely subjective, non-numbers based gut feeling is that manny will keep hitting until he’s 42, but that’s a separate issue from the baggage. again, as noted above, giving a-rod a media breather could be a great thing
Can I ask how many A-Rod and Manny type bats were their on the Yankees World Series Championship teams ( late 90 early 2000) ?
so just because they didnt have a Manny and ARod in the lineup in the late 90′s, they shouldnt have them there now? what kind of reasoning is that?
What it means is that it can be done without the big bats. How has the big bats theory worked lately for the Yanks ?
havent we already figured out that it was the fact that the pitching stunk?
the pitching is getting fixed, or thats what it appears to be the case…. we all hope, anyway.
but surprisingly enough, you can add pitching and a big bat at the same time.
That was a decade ago. The game has changed a tad. And the pitching we trot out there isn’t as accomplished either as those teams. Even if they add Burnett to this.
Contrary to popular belief those teams had some major firepower. Just because the 3-6 guys aren’t in the HOF doesn’t mean they weren’t all stars and borderline HOF guys. Check the #’s.
I know the numbers and those guys got on base, hit for Avg. and score runs.
and were clutchy mcclutchertons whose hr MATTERED!11!11!
So in massachusetts its like a freaking disaster area, trees are falling by the minute at my house, probably half an inch of ice on EVERYTHING.
I’m in Boston right now and have NO IDEA what you’re talking about.
Your not around trees haha ill take a picture
As for manny, his stats speak louder than words. He has great balance which is good for a power hitter pushing toward his final years since he will pretty much always have his stroke. 2-3 years is a great deal on Manny. I just think we need to trade someone in the outfield.
Try and unload matsui somewhere,anywhere and have manny dh and bat cleanup
We need Damon next year for a lead-off hitter and we need nady in right, Matsui is expendable
isn’t matsui owed too much $$$ to get anything back for him? i think it’s better to keep him for 1 more year. you know posada & damon will rest days. also, i missed watching matsui hit last year. damon/swisher/posada/matsui = high opposing pitch counts
Yea but who knows how matsui’s knees will hold up. Maybe if we eat some of his contract and get a b-level prospect or something
Try and unload matsui somewhere,anywhere and have manny dh and bat cleanup
Matsui is coming off surgery on both knees in the past year, and is owed $13 mil for 2009. What GM is going to say “Yep, that’s the missing piece for my ball club?”
It’s one thing to say “trade Matsui”. It’s quite another to find a trade partner who wants that type of player (i.e., one coming off knee surgery).
I definately agree it would be extremely hard and probably unlikely but if we have a chance to sign one of the greatest right handed hitters to dh for us on a good 3 year contract then matsui shouldnt hinder that from happening
with the ugly OF market that currently exists, if the Yankees ate some of that salary, someone will take a chance, guaranteed.
i see a perfect home in Philly for him. he could play LF in a small ballpark where his defense isnt make or break, and i dont see the Phillies wanting to extend any long term, big money deals to anyone currently available.
Dam i just remembered doesnt he have a no-trade clause? If so he probably wouldnt accept a trade anywhere
he reportedly said he’d waive it last year, so you can at least approach him about it. no-trade clauses are definitely hurdles, but they arent always brick walls.
ha! ok, nevermind Philly. i read that apparently MLBTR has the scoop that they just signed Ibanez for 3 years.
Forget about Manny as a baseball thing which we all know is great. As a business move it is a flat out no brainer. The ratings would sky rocket. Imagine the Bos-NY ratings with him in pinstripes? Imagine the juice?
And his mood swings were so bad that the Sox won two titles and the Dodgers made the NLCS. I think we can deal.
Imagine A-Rod in the playoffs !!!! Twice what Ortiz was… Omg that would be great to see… This is the one time I want to see Hank make the final decision
As a business move it is a flat out no brainer. The ratings would sky rocket.
Which is why I believe if George was running the show, we would have Manny. I just don’t believe Cash thinks along those lines.
Additionally, we have the good clubhouse presences in CC and Swish along with Jopo Jet, etc. we can afford to take a chance with Manuel; have a long hard talk with him before signing.
Oh c’mon people. Remember the days of the Bronx Zoo? Arod needs someone to take the pressure off him and whatever muscle beach bimbo he has in tow. Bring on Manny! Washington Heights yo!
you have hurt madonna’s feelings greatly.
Let’s say Posada returns healthy and Cano finds his swing, is that going to makeup for the reliable 100 rbi’s from Abreu and the less than reliable 100 rbi’s from the Giambino. This team is not currently built to be youn and scrappy. I’d like Tex, but if that is not the direction, then Manny has to be the one. We are a team built to win now. Unfortunately, if the RS get Tex, they will be the ones getting younger.
Tex, provides almost as much coverage as Manny does. Same price, but more years I know. But think of the overall upgrade defensively…
C-Posada
1B- Tex
2B – Cano
SS – Jeter
3B – April-Rod
LF – Swish
CF – Cameron
RF – Nady
DH – Damon and Matsui
vs.
C – same
1B – Swisher
2B – same
SS – same
3B – same
LF – Damon
CF – same
RF – same
DH – Manny
The first team has much more flexibility than 3 guys who all need to be our DH (Manny, Damon and Matsui). Plus what happens in 2-3 years when Posada really can’t catch anymore but we have the dread-queen blocking up the DH role. Tex = longer solution with more flexibility and better defense
Ahhh…the logjam argument: Part quatre vingt cinque
No I thought this was part 86…
Sorry — having trouble keeping count.
No I thought this was part 86…
There is really nothing wrong with arguing that we should sign the player who plays a position we need as opposed to signing one who plays a position we have multiple people at.
Agreed. Tex is a better choice for several reasons including his age — but Manny would be my second choice over any other bat.
Agreed but do we need more bats? I think we need more gloves. The game is won on both sides of the field and I think people do forget that sometimes. We are all enamored by offensive numbers and forget that it is only half of the game. I coach and sometimes I’d rather have a guy on my team that enables us not to make mistakes rather then a guy who at best hits a homerun 5% of the time…
i like this reasoning.
let’s also not forget that defense doesn’t slump against good pitching. it seems that october (or critical reg season) pitching duels magnify the importance of defense relative to offensve, b/c when the good pitching shows up (i.e., beckett v. joba in that 1-0 game in july), the OPS stats go out the window and the smaller things make the difference. so building a winning team is not just about adding the OPS or VORP of a lineup to see which team’s better — it’s also about whether a team can win different types of games with different skills. balance is critical (BA, OBP, SLG, defense, speed, pitching). recent yanks teams have lacked that balance. don’t forget that manny’s skill set enhances the yanks’ team weaknesses (defense, speed, age), and adds to areas of relative strength. pass!!
btw, this is what concerns me about players like cano and giambi and dunn, and why every writer in america gushes over the jeters and pedroias of the league: fundamentals. the stats don’t capture that stuff, as far as i know.
To put it bluntly, that’s a load of crap. Jeter may have sound fundamentals, but he’s pretty bad in the field. You don’t need stats to know that; if you watch enough games, you can see it with your own eyes. Give me a break. You can only take some bogus anti-stats argument so far before it loses any plausibility.
to bluntly reply: your reading comprehension needs work, b/c you missed my point entirely. jeter wasn’t the right example for good defense. but then, i didn’t use him as an example of good defense. i used him as an example of good fundamentals. are you saying he doesn’t exhibit those? is that what you mean by “load of crap”?
This isn’t really a threat… at this point no team is counting on signing him, the Dodgers could really use him, other teams would love his bat, but if he retires he hurts no one. The Dodgers need him the most, and they seemingly have accepted he’s not coming back.
[...] Manny’s painted himself into a corner and has two options: go crawling back to Coletti, or retire. I’m very interested in seeing how this one plays [...]