Dec
04

Yanks want Pettitte back, but for $10M

By

The Yankees would like to bring Andy Pettitte back for another season in pinstripes, but they would like to do it on their terms and their money. Says Jack Curry in The Times today, the Yanks are trying to convince Pettitte to sign a $10 million deal.

What Randy and Alan Hendricks, Pettitte’s agents, are trying to do is to make sure their client avoids a pay cut. Pettitte made $16 million last season, one of the highest salaries in the major leagues for a pitcher, and his agents have stressed that he wants the same salary. The Yankees have offered Pettitte $10 million, and they seemingly have no immediate plans to improve their offer.

“We’d like to have him back,” General Manager Brian Cashman said Wednesday. “It’s come to the arena of trying to achieve common ground on money, which is easier said than done.”

Pettitte battled shoulder problems last season and ended up 14-14 with a 4.54 earned run average, including a 2-7 mark to finish the year. The Yankees believe Pettitte, who pitched a team-high 204 innings, can still be an effective starter, but they consider a $16 million investment in him to be too expensive.

Curry’s article, coming out less than 24 hours after the Yanks declined to offer the lefty starter arbitration, clearly shows why the Yanks didn’t want to and shouldn’t have offered Pettitte arbitration. Of dual significance is Pettitte’s clear preference to stay in New York and the Yanks’ desire to reduce his salary by over 35 percent.

With this offer on the table, had the Yanks offered arbitration, the Hendricks brothers surely would have accepted. Pettitte wants to be a Yankee for one more year and would have gotten a lot more money under arbitration than he will when the two sides eventually agree on their $12 or $13 million deal. It all makes sense now.

Categories : Hot Stove League
  • A.D.

    Saw the 10M figure a day or too ago, and it does make a lot of sense when the difference is that big… and for that matter we are assuming the Dodgers threat is real, they’ve had “conversations” but what does that really mean.

  • Jay CT

    Absurd. I love Pettite, one of my all time favorites, but they cannot seriously believe he is still a 16 million dollar a year pitcher.

    • Chris

      They’re agents – it’s what they’re paid to do.

    • Ed

      That’s how agents get better deals for players. Look at Scott Boras for some examples:

      Varitek just got $10 million a year and is coming off a season. How does Boras keep his value up? By trying to insist he deserves a Posada like contract ($13m). So you’ve probably got Boston offering $7m and Varitek asking for $13. Boston ended up offering him arbitration, which means it’s very unlikely he’ll end up with a paycut.

      Last year, A-Rod was coming off a $25.2m/year contract. Next highest in the game was $20m/year. Despite there not being any other serious bidders, Boras starts demanding $350m. Everyone laughs, the Yankees bid against themselves, and A-Rod gets $275m guaranteed plus incentives to take it past $300m.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Absurd. I love Pettite, one of my all time favorites, but they cannot seriously believe he is still a 16 million dollar a year pitcher.

      It’s not about believing you’re worth 16M, it’s about trying to convince somebody to pay you 16M.

      • Chris C.

        Right……….and all over the place, we see Brian Cashman getting blamed for not being convinced.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Precisely. Because they’re more interested in blaming Cashman for everything than stopping and considering what’s best for the team.

          If you want to blame Cashman for fucking up, fine. Just wait until he actually fucks up.

          • Chris C.

            Exactly.
            It’s not their money, and it’s not Cashman’s, but he should apparently treat money like they just got it robbing a bank.

  • Bill

    Hold tight at 10. I doubt anyone offers more than 12 anyway and even if they do Pettitte wants to play here, so he should give us an opportunity to match or perhaps even take less to stay here. If you need to go up to 12, fine, but 10 could be enough.

    No shocker his agents want 16 though. However there is no chance of that happening. When all things are said and done he should be back at 10-12M.

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      Exactly.

  • Baseballnation

    Wouldn’t that money be better invested long term if the yankees tacked 2-3 million to that and offered it to Sheets? Still, one year of Pettitte is a lot better than 5 years of Burnett (tsk tsk Atlanta)

    • UWS

      I very much doubt that Sheets would take a 1-year deal. He’d be better off accepting arbitration from the Brewers at that point, wouldn’t he?

      • Baseballnation

        Not a one year deal, 2 year big dollar deal, or 3-4 years at 16 million…

        • Jay CT

          ABSOLUTELY. For what its worth, I actaually had the chance to speak with Michael Kay not too long ago and he said that the Yankees insiders have told him that they love Sheets. The arm strain may have changed that, but I would think he would be “in the know” a bit. I personally would be all for a CC/Sheets reunion here. I like Sheets 2nd best overall for pitchers

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            For what its worth, I actaually had the chance to speak with Michael Kay not too long ago and he said that the Yankees insiders have told him that they love Sheets.

            Did you give him the bro-handshake, and then go into a little bro-hug, and then do the BRO-BOT… I AM A BRO-BOT…

            … and then BOOOOOOM, MAKE IT EXPLODE!!!!!!

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      I think we need more than one pitcher even if we get CC.

      Pettitte for one year and 10milli should not stop them from getting Sheets if they really want him.

      I would assume that Sheets could be gotten for a two year high dollar deal, no way I would give him more than two years unless he was coming in at a huge discount for some odd reason.

    • nmc

      why not both?

      • nmc

        if you get Pettitte at 13 and Sheets at say, 2/32 or 3/45 as well as Sabathia, I’d say that’s a pretty good job. I think if you tack Dunn on top of that for 4/50 or 4/52 I’d be very happy about the off-season. (Also a trade of Nady would be ideal… I’d also hope they get rid of Godzilla, which pains me because I love the guy but he’s a detriment right now. But you absolutely have to sell high on Nady.)

        /Sterling

        • zzzzz

          agreed.

  • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

    Offer Andy Arbitration? Duh!

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      Yeah seriously.

      • Bo

        When he signs with the Dodgers they are going to regret playing small market crap over a few mill.

        • steve (different one)

          you are right. *IF* that happens, they will probably regret it.

          but *IF* is not the same as *WHEN*.

  • Axl

    $16 million wasn’t worth what he did last season. He’s not able to take HGH for his “elbow troubles” anymore…so he’s not even a lock to repeat his last year numbers (as sad as it sounds)…I don’t know how you argue $16 million for a Pettitte who’s a year older…and clearly showed signs of wear and tear and wasn’t worth the same amount of money last year…

    Ending up with 12-13MM is probably what’s going to happen…and I think that’s even too high. But they have the upper hand after all because we literally don’t have pitching. We’ve not had it for many years past…but now we literally don’t have 3 starting pitchers and need to fill them. Hence what the Yankees are going through now with both Pettitte, Sabathia…and who ever else they’ve inquired on…

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      Axl you are on point here. They know we need a one year deal and they know it has to come at a discount. I also agree with your “$16 million wasn’t worth what he did last season. He’s not able to take HGH for his “elbow troubles” anymore…so he’s not even a lock to repeat his last year numbers (as sad as it sounds)”

      Dead on.

      • Baseballnation

        your looking at his era, or his overall Fip? Pettitte did not have a bad season, he was only bad half ov the season…His stuff has certainly dipped a little bit, he suffered from arm problems last year, and from fatigue in the second half. I think he has more than a shot to do better than last years numbers.

        • Axl

          Very true…but what’s more logical? At a year older than last year…with elbow troubles at the end of the year without any word of how or if it’s better…common sense says that it’s more likey he continue where he left off…rather than continue with something he did before injury.

          • Ed

            It wasn’t elbow trouble, it was shoulder. A slightly inflamed shoulder. At the time of his MRI they said it would go away with a little rest.

            Basically he pitched half the season with the same injury Joba had. He’s had a month and a half off, so he should be fine by now, and it should be a non-issue going forward.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          your looking at his era, or his overall Fip?

          The juxtaposition of that question, Baseballnation (specifically, who you asked it to) made me laugh.

    • nmc

      doesn’t Carlos Silva get paid 12M/year? sadly, I think that’s what the market is at right now, and usually people get paid more on 1 year contracts. So I’d say he probably ends with 13-14.

      • Chris C.

        “doesn’t Carlos Silva get paid 12M/year?”

        Yeah…..and that’s stupid. So what’s your point?.

        “sadly, I think that’s what the market is at right now”

        Right. If you want to pay a lousy pitcher 12 mill a year, that’s where the market is.

  • Marcus

    It’s nice to see the Yankees take a stand and not overpay everyone on a yearly basis. Yankees could save a lot more money every year if they just offered normal contracts to people and then raised them a bit from there to lure them to NY. Instead of starting so high that we overpay for every free agent.

    The amount of money we could save on smart investments in free agents could net us an additional player each year using the money we save. Andy should have never had a 16 million dollar contract, absurd.

    • steve (different one)

      Andy could have easily tested free agency last year and gotten 2-3 years at $13-15M. he would have been the best FA pitcher on the market by a mile.

      i had no problems with giving him $16M for a 1 year deal coming off a very strong 2007 season.

      this year, the market is different and he is coming off a worse season.

      i think his 2008 salary was a slight overpay, but it wasn’t egregious when you put it in context.

      • Chris C.

        “Andy could have easily tested free agency last year and gotten 2-3 years at $13-15M.”

        Oh, I doubt it. After he appeared in the Mitchell report, it was the Yankees or severe paycut and probable fan abuse elsewhere.
        Let’s not make it appear as if he did the Yankees a solid last offseason. That is revising history.

  • Conan the Barack O’Brian

    I hope that if we sign CC and say, Sheets, Pettitte will look at a lesser one-year deal as a better opportunity to win. As of now, he’d be signing on with Wang and Joba while taking a paycut, and he may want to pass if we don’t get at least one more quality starter.

    Ben, think you mean “dual significance”

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Nah. They were fighting it out, 1800′s style! Correction duly noted.

      • UWS

        Gotta say, hot stove season would be a lot more exciting if that were the case. Imagine all the GMs lining up to slap Boras with a trout (h/t someone in yesterday’s thread)!

        • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

          it really really would

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        Sir, I demand satisfaction!

  • RustyJohn

    A bit funny in a way to think of all those free agents expecting huge offers, completely oblivious to what is going on in the “real” world, and in the meantime the only big signing yesterday was Russell Branyan by the Mariners. Do you think that guys like Dunn, Burrell, Lowe (who reportedly has only received two offers), et al are sitting by the phone staring at it waiting to ring?

  • pounder

    Maybe Andy pulls a Mussina and wins 20 for us next year.CC obviously wants to go anywhere but NY,and we will probably need a lefty in the rotation,so pay him 12 mil and be done with it.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Mussina’s 2008 should never be viewed as likely. That was the exception and not at all the rule. Don’t count on that happening again anytime soon.

    • UWS

      CC obviously wants to go anywhere but NY? How is it obvious? Just because he hasn’t yet proclaimed his love for the Yankees in the streets of Vallejo?

      I am reminded of tsjc’s burrito.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        It promises to be a delicious burrito indeed. Yet, I’m a bit miffed because it’s taking really long to fucking cook in this fucking microwave.

        It’ll finish eventually, I’m sure.

        • jsbrendog

          aaaaaaaaand wait for it….there it is. he is now RAB legend for being quoted multiple times and directly by a creator…haha..get that man a beer

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Thank you, thank you. I give because I love.

            It’ll finish eventually, I’m sure.

            Given the propensity for impatience on all things and all matters, i doubt it. There is literally an infinite number of metaphorical burritos in an infinite number of metaphorical microwaves these days.

    • Chris C.

      “CC obviously wants to go anywhere but NY………,”

      I think there may be other places he’s RATHER go than NY, but ANYWHERE is a bit strong.
      Pettitte would love to sign with the Yankees, but he’s not here either. So what’s your point? Do you not understand how free agents and their agents operate?

  • E-ROC

    Stalemate. Pettitte will blink first.

  • Bo

    It’s insulting that they ask him to take that much of a paycut when they paid Pavano 10 a yr.

    I wouldn’t blame Pettitte if he went to LA for 14 mill.

    They are talking about a 4 yr deal worth 17 mil per with Derek lowe who is the same age as Andy and has pitched in the piss poor NL West for 4 yrs.

    They serious?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Really? You really think Derek Lowe was “piss poor” over the last four years? Try again.

      He was much better than Pettitte as compared to the rest of the league over the last four years and hasn’t shown the same tendency to break down yet.

      • Bo

        The NL West is piss poor.

        Not Lowe.

        • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

          it is, but he still excelled there… and consistently at that

          • Bo

            And how was he in the AL East when he was in his physical prime? How would Andy’s record look if he pitched in Dodger Stad the past 2 yrs?

            • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

              i understand the AL east concern, but that was 5 years ago

              nobody thinks hes gonna take his sub 3.50 era and duplicate it in the al east… but assuming he takes a half-run hit to his era… he is still in the high 3s and low 4s, which is more than respectable

              may i remind u, if the yanks took the field for opening day tomorrow there staff would be this:

              1. wang
              2. joba
              3. hughes
              4. aceves
              5. IPK/igawa

              now look at that rotation and tell me how 200-inning derek lowes 4-4.25 era would look… suddenly it seems a lot better deal

              by no means do i think lowe would be an ace or anything over here, but he gives the yanks innings, he knows how to pitch, and for a 3/45 deal or so, i think hes a very good fit, again, GIVEN HOW DESPERATE THE YANKEES ARE

              • Chris

                I think the correct rotation would be:

                1. wang
                2. joba
                3. hughes
                4. aceves
                5. IPK
                6. coke
                7. horne
                8. marquez
                9. pepsi
                10. my grandmother
                11. Igawa

                • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

                  corrections to your list…. marquez plays for the white sox now, coke is much better than pepsi, and u robinson cano belongs at 11 and push igawa to 12

                • A.D.

                  The yanks might trade back for Marquez before getting Igawa a spot

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  10. my grandmother

                  Chris, I will take your grandmother our for a nice seafood dinner and NEVER CALL HER AGAIN!!!

              • Chris C.

                i understand the AL east concern, but that was 5 years ago

                Yeah. I can’t believe people are concerned with how a guy pitched in his prime.

      • Chris C.

        Really? You really think Derek Lowe was “piss poor” over the last four years? Try again.

        He was terrible outside of LA, which is cavernous.
        The contrast between how he piched at home, and how he pitched on the road, is ENORMOUS. It’s like two totally different pitchers.
        Opposing hitters were hitting close to .300 off him on the road.

        As far as I know, he’s not bringing Chavez Ravine wherever he goes.

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

      u really think LA would offer him 1/14?

    • Chris C.

      “It’s insulting that they ask him to take that much of a paycut when they paid Pavano 10 a yr.”

      Well, they paid Pavano 10 mill a year because he was coming off an 18-8, 3.00 season in which he was an integral part of winning a World Series.
      They didn’t give him that contract knowing he’d spend the next 4 years on the DL.

      You know what’s insulting? They just paid Pettitte 32 million bucks for the last two seasons, in which he put up #3 or #4 starter numbers of 29-23 with a 4.30 ERA. On top of that, He neglected to tell the Yankees he was going to be a future distratuion by appearing in the Mitchell report, even though he was aware of that for a while. And even then, every Yankee exec and player came to his defense in the press. And Pettitte didn’t hear a single boo from any Yankee fan when he took the mound this season.

      And he should feel insulted they’re not anxious to give him a raise??????
      Give me an F****** break!

      “I wouldn’t blame Pettitte if he went to LA for 14 mill.”

      I would. He has said, DIRECTLY, that he only wants to play with the Yankees, or retire. And he said this SUPPOSEDELY out of appreciation for the way the Yankees embraced him through his turmoil. So if he ends up in LA, it would just be another lie. It would mean that the guy uses the threat of retirement as a negotiating ploy. I know another pitcher from Texas who used to do that…….and he turned out to be a slimebag.

      “They are talking about a 4 yr deal worth 17 mil per with Derek lowe who is the same age as Andy and has pitched in the piss poor NL West for 4 yrs.”

      I’ve never heard Cashman talk about this. Are you making it up, or citing a hack writer?

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      It’s insulting that they ask him to take that much of a paycut when they paid Pavano 10 a yr.

      They agreed to paid Pavano 10 a year when he was healthy, young, and effective, four years ago. Totally different situation.

      The reason Pavano is not currently on the roster is because we’d only bring him back if he took a massive paycut now, a paycut bigger than what we’re asking Andy to make. I can’t possibly see how Andy would get offended that the Yankees paid a player his 2008 salary that they contractually agreed to pay him back in 2004. This is a horrid parallel that no reasonable person would claim

  • steve (different one)

    i can’t think of a single reason why Pavano’s contract has anything to do with this.

    there is no chance the Dodgers give Pettitte $14M. none.

    • Bo

      Yea you are so right. The Dodgers would never give a one yr deal to a proven lefty.

      Yea they’d never do that especially with the manager knowing him so well and everything.

      And especially since they are losing Lowe and probably Penny. They would never go for a one yr deal to a durable playoff veteran.

      • steve (different one)

        where did i say they wouldn’t give him a one year deal?

        i said they won’t give him $14M.

        • Bo

          Why wouldn’t they??? It’s not like they are the KC Royals or the Pitt Pirates.

          They are floating 45 mil for 2 yrs to Manny so its not like they are poor.

          And a one yr 14 mil for Andy P is a little better for them than 60 for 4 for Lowe.

          The Dodgers have been known to pay higher for shorter term deals. This is their MO.

          • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

            its not out of the question… but i find it unlikely, clearly his heart is in NY, and even if they did outbid the yanks ((which i firmly believe they wont)) they would have to at the very least give him the 16M he allegedly craves to lure him from where he and his family want to be, and i just dont see it happening

          • steve (different one)

            if you have been watching the Dodgers the last year, you may have noticed that they are actually pretty strapped for cash.

            they traded for Blake and Manny because they didn’t have to pay any of their salaries.

            do you think that offer to Manny was made in good faith? the Dodgers HAD to make it look like they wanted to keep Manny, b/c he totally electrified their fanbase, but does anyone think 2 years was getting it done?

            you are right, i guess none of us know what is going to happen, so i shouldn’t have stated my opinion with such certainty. i could be wrong.

            if i am wrong i will be the first one here to admit it.

            but that is just my opinion based on what i have seen the Dodgers do in the last year.

            agree to disagree for now (until something actually happens!).

            • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              Isn’t the real question, would you rather pay Andy Pettitte $14 million, or have 20 new little league fields?

              /knows nobody will follow that one

              • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

                right over my head, but i give u the benefit of the doubt and assume its amusing

                • steve (different one)

                  one of the owners of the Dodgers held a press conference last week to ask how the Dodgers can justify spending $30M on free agents when that same money can buy so much park space for children.

                  seriously.

                • Chris C.

                  They’ll spend it anyway. His wife told him to throw that in the papers.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Thanks steve (different one). I got pulled (kicking and screaming of course) away from RAB at work today, would have found the link if I had time when I made that comment. Here it is:

                  http://deadspin.com/5100480/if.....-go-hungry

            • Chris C.

              “if you have been watching the Dodgers the last year, you may have noticed that they are actually pretty strapped for cash.”

              No they aren’t. Frank McCourt is not strapped for anything. They had more money than the entire Rays roster on their bench alone.

              “they traded for Blake and Manny because they didn’t have to pay any of their salaries.”

              Oh, I see. They had a hole in left field, nobody on offense hitting for power, and Manny Ramirez was available for free. So they only grabbed him because they are broke.

              If it were the Yankees, they’d have DEMANDED to pay the rest of Manny’s contract. None of this “free” nonsense. The Yankees don’t need charity!

              “do you think that offer to Manny was made in good faith? the Dodgers HAD to make it look like they wanted to keep Manny, b/c he totally electrified their fanbase, but does anyone think 2 years was getting it done?”

              I think a two year offer to a cancer like Ramirez is pretty much on the money for where his market is. Wake me up when the 4 year offers come rolling in for that clown.

              “but that is just my opinion based on what i have seen the Dodgers do in the last year.”

              What the Dodgers have done in the past year is not try to compound there already expensive mistakes by making more expensive mistakes. That does not mean they’re broke. It just means that they didn’t want to spend another 20 million bucks to gain the production they weren’t getting from the 40 mill on the bench rotting away.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                No they aren’t. Frank McCourt is not strapped for anything. They had more money than the entire Rays roster on their bench alone.

                http://www.forbes.com/finance/.....atype=Misc

                “To help pay for his $421 million purchase (financed completely with debt) of the Los Angeles Dodgers, Frank McCourt has raised ticket and concession prices and increased his cable rights fee from FSN 2, owned by the team’s previous owner, News Corp, to $25 million a year from $15 million. McCourt’s goal is to boost the team’s attendance to 4 million. The Boston real estate developer might also sell naming rights to the stadium to pay off debt, which could command $4 million a year.”

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....executive)

                  “After his failed bid to buy the Red Sox he set his sights on the Dodgers. In 2004, McCourt bought the Los Angeles Dodgers for $430 million from NewsCorp, Rupert Murdoch’s flagship enterprise. McCourt’s purchase of the Dodgers was financed mostly by debt. To offset the purchase, McCourt has raised ticket and concession prices every year. The Dodgers have since increased in value to $694 million reported by Forbes. Unlike other owners, McCourt bought and still operates the Dodgers without any financial partners.

                • Chris C.

                  Yeah, technichally that’s dept, but not real debt.

                  That’s the kind of dept that the Yankees are in right now, with all the stadium loans. Their new stadium is financed by……………debt!

                  In any event, it’s not gonna stop him from spending money this year. He’s trying to increase attendence, and they just went to the NLCS.
                  The Dodgers are not going to sit idle. Not when they made Torre the highest paid manager.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  I’m not saying that McCourt is broke like the Duke Brothers, but he’s definitely lighting his cigars with $100 bills like the Steinbrenners are.

                • Chris C.

                  Okay, so he’s lighting cigars like Tom Hicks.

                  And spending money like Hicks too, so that should be even more reason not to doubt a goofy signing for silly money.

                  And he’s got starters coming off the books, too.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  “but he’s definitely not lighting his cigars with $100 bills like the Steinbrenners are.”

                  I’m an idiot.

                • Chris C.

                  I didn’t even notice that gaff. I knew what you meant.

        • Chris C.

          i said they won’t give him $14M.

          Okay, Nostradamus. I’m sure you’re right. Any team that gives Andruw Jones such a fiscally responsible contract that was in direct correlation with the upward trend of his statistics wouldn’t possibly hand Andy Pettitte a one year/14 mill deal.

      • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

        we all agree they would be interested in a 1 yr deal for him… where we disagree is the 14M part

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

      agreed. pavano should have no bearing on pettittes negotiations. and i dont think LA would outbid NY, theyre probably willing to do the same 1/10 deal, if that. i think he winds up back here at 1/12 eventually, which im fine with

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      Year older.

      Elbow problems.

      Lack of PED’s (hopefully)

      All of those are reasons for him to do worse. Yes he could do better, but you can not count on that.

      When was the last time Andy was a good to great pitcher minus PED’s? Only a couple of people could tell us that Andy and his drug dealer.

      • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

        2007, assuming he was off them

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        You’re being a bit harsh. According to all available testimony, Pettitte used HGH twice a whole bunch of years ago. There’s absolutely no evidence that he was using it while in Houston. There’s no evidence he was juicing in 2007. There is evidence that he had a significant shoulder problem this year and isn’t getting any younger. But feel free to dismiss those for your “everyone’s a juicer because DonnieBaseballHallofFame says so” line of reasoning.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          All that legal testimony is just stats.

          depostions and evidence = pie charts

        • Chris C.

          “You’re being a bit harsh. According to all available testimony, Pettitte used HGH twice a whole bunch of years ago. There’s absolutely no evidence that he was using it while in Houston.”

          You see, that’s the thing………you don’t know. And the fact that Pettitte withheld info on his use of it TWICE casts even more doubt into the frequency that he actually did use it. And that means it casts doubts as to how his production may have been altered because of it.
          Now it’s “harsh” to believe that he may have used HGH when he was in Houston, while he was teammates with Roger Clemens?

          I like Andy Pettitte, but c’mon!
          I was already gullible once thinking that Pettitte would never dream of toucing the stuff, regardless of how buddy-buddy he was with Rocket.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

            I’m a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty especially in the light of no evidence whatsoever. If you’d like to hang Pettitte out to dry for something you suspect on nothing as flimsy as hearsay, so be it. He admitted he used; he apologized. I highly doubt he would continue to lie after the public shaming he went through last year.

            • Chris C.

              “I’m a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty especially in the light of no evidence whatsoever.”

              Oh, you can believe that, and it’s noble to give people the benefit of the doubt in that way. But when you’re an employer and there’s big money involved, that doesn’t really cut it. You really have to go with your gut.

              And it works that way for everyone. If you go on a job interview, and your old boss gives your prospective new employer an unsavory story, you’ll have a tough time getting an offer with the “I’m innocent until proven guilty” reasoning.

      • Bo

        It is kind of laughable that they are showing fiscal restraint when they got a record setting offer on the table to a starting pitcher. That offer is just a starting point to any discussion.

        Nickel and diming one of your core is ridiculous especially since they need him so bad.

        The more they haggle with him over a few mill the more it really seems like they want him to walk.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          So you’d rather overpay a 37-year-old who isn’t that effective in the name of nostalgia and not land the best available ace entering his pitcher prime for fear of insulting Andy Pettitte? I’m glad you’re not the GM.

          • Bo

            Overpay by what for 1 yr? 2 mill? Maybe 4?

            You serious??? You’re the guy advocating paying Derek Lowe 16+ for 4 yrs. Who is the same age and got run out of the AL East 4 yrs ago. And you wouldn’t want the lefty who wants to and has proven he can pitch in NY on a 1 yr deal?

            Really?

            This is the same team that has a AAA all star making 5 mill a yr and they are nickel and diming Andy Pettitte. How is it about nostalgia since the guy can still be effective?

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              Ok. Get your facts straight because now you’re putting words into out mouths incorrectly. At what point have we advocated paying Derek Lowe $16 million for four years?

              I’m talking CC Sabathia and Andy Pettitte. Derek Lowe can go elsewhere for all I care. And anyway, Sabathia and Pettitte have little-to-nothing to do with each other outside of the fact that the Yanks could use the significant savings they could pocket by not overpaying Pettitte to beef up their Sabathia offer. It’s undisputed that Sabathia is better than Pettitte. If you’d rather pay for nostalgia at the risk of the long-term health of the team, so be it.

            • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

              dude nobody said anything about 4/64 for derek lowe

              i personally liked the idea for 3/45… but thats different from 4/64

              and most everyone wants pettitte back, but even the biggest andy apologists cant think the yanks should just dismiss negotiations and hand him the 16M he wants without blinking

              its just a negotiation, u r making too much of it, it actually seems pretty standard procedure to me…. we offer 10, they demand 16, we eventually settle at 1/12 or 1/13 and move on in our lives

        • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

          they do want him back, cashman said is much…. i think with the economy right now and his terrible 2nd half they just dont wanna give him money that they could be using for lowe/tex/manny or anyone else…

          also, i think they know how bad he wants to return… its just a negotiation, and i dont think its that big of a deal, as i still firmly believe he returns to NY eventually, probably at 1/12

          and CCs contract offer really shouldnt affect this one way or the other… thats a whole different animal than pettitte at 1 yr at age 36

        • steve (different one)

          i’m not sure i understand.

          this isn’t “nickel and diming” at all. it’s $6M.

          CC Sabathia is worth $25M/year. Pettitte is worth about $10M.

          that is just where they are in their respective careers right now.

          i don’t see what one has to do with the other.

          • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

            “i dont see what one has to do with the other”

            they have nothing to do with each other… the only guys concerned about CCs offer should be aj and possibly lowe… and MAYBE ollie perez, thats it

          • Bo

            Worth and what they get on the free agent market are completely different animals.

            Or haven’t you paid attention the last decade?

            If Pettitte was looking for a multi yr deal this argument would have some teeth. But a 1 yr deal? It’s a joke.

            If you don’t think teams would love to add for one yr at 14 mill you don’t know what you’re talking about.

            Him at 14 for 1 or Ollie Perez at 15 mil per for 4 for the Mets?
            Him or Lowe for 16 mil per for 4?

            You don’t think the Sox would love to add him instead of paying Lowe or Burnett??

            Yea. It’s nickel and diming.

            • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

              again, nobody on here said anything about lowe for 4/64

              we konw the yanks want pettitte, but are you just willing to give every guy what he wants with no negotiations??

              every guy who has ever signed a 1 yr deal for the yanks shouldnt have to be put thru the grinding burden of a mutliple week negotiation? just forego standard FA procedure? just handed the money they wanted?

            • steve (different one)

              If Pettitte was looking for a multi yr deal this argument would have some teeth. But a 1 yr deal? It’s a joke.

              this is getting silly.

              if Pettitte signs with the Yankees for less than $16M, you are completely wrong.

              if he signs elsewhere or winds up back with the yankees for $16M, then you are right.

              we just have to wait and see for now.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                WHY THE FUCK IS MY BURRITO TAKING THIS LONG TO COOK IN THIS MICROWAVE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

            • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

              4 mill in this economy even for the Yanks is not nickle and dime’n it.

              We have all become desensitized over the last 5 or 6 years to these stupid big numbers ( I bust the stupid dope moves, yo.)
              and think that 4 mill means nothing.

              Giving one guy too much money stops you from addressing needs like a bench or a quality utility guy or a bullpen or something.

              Us giving all the money in the world two a pitcher this year or two of them (plus the insane $ tied up in guys like Alex) will stop us from getting Manny or Tex.

        • Chris C.

          Fiscal restraint is making a solid offer to the right guy, and not overpaying for the wrong guy.

          Fiscal restraint doesn’t mean you don’t spend money………it means you spend it wiesly.

        • Chris C.

          Nickel and diming one of your core is ridiculous especially since they need him so bad.

          They don’t need him so bad. How badly do they need a .500 pitcher who’s ERA was over 4.50, couldn’t get rightees out, and ran out of gas by August?
          I’d have to believe you can spend alot less than 16 mill to find a guy who can do better than that!

          Al Aceves looked to me like he could do better than that, and at over 15 mill less.

  • gxpanos

    I think what’ll happen, though, is they’ll end up at 12 or 13 mil and get him signed. Of course I don’t know, but it seems to me that the way Andy frets about his family’s comfort points to him not going across the damn country. It’s Texas or NY, and there’s no talk of him going back to Texas. Plus, he’s said he wants to play in the new stadium.

    I’ll bet Cashman just ends up throwing 2 mil more his way so he can save face a little and still pitch in NY.

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

      agree 100%

      i think ppl ((and by ppl i mean bo)) are way overreacting to what i think is simply a negotiation… im confident he comes back at 1/12 or 1/13… both sides want it to happen, it will

  • Shineon

    Pettitte is not worth 16M per year right now (today). I for one think the Yankees are right on the money here. NOW lets says the can’t sign Sabathia / Lowe / Sheets or a combination… Well then Andy just might be a dandy again on a 1 yr deal that is going to clearly be above market value.

    Forget that he was a great Yankee (nostalgia) this is business, the players rarely offer a serious discount for nostalgia so why would the teams overpay? Just a business decision nothing else. Cash (yanks) played this one right.

    10-12M if they sign 1 or two other FA’s – 14-16M if they don’t.

  • Mike

    Will Pettitte pull a Pedroia and give us a hometown discount. Judging by his reaction, no. O well, give Hughes Pettitte’s spot then. No big loss. At least not for 16 mil.

    • Chris C.

      He should eventually, considering this “hometown” cut him a break in the wake of his troubles last offseason.

  • K.B.D.

    Considering Pettitte’s “spot” involved throwing 200 innings, I think handing it to Phil who is going to be capped at 150 or so is a big loss. Not everyone on your pitching staff has to be an all-star, but you do need people there to eat innings and Andy can do it at league average or better. We can’t say the same of Phil.

    • Chris C.

      “Not everyone on your pitching staff has to be an all-star, but you do need people there to eat innings and Andy can do it at league average or better. We can’t say the same of Phil.”

      Eating innings is no good if you’re getting spanked during those innings.
      Hell, you can bring up a different rookie every 5 days for that start in the rotation, and end the season getting 200 innings from that slot.

      And you may even find a keeper along the way who ends up being better than Pettitte would have been!

      • K.B.D.

        Andy’s ERA+ was 98, so in those 200 innings he was barely worse than league average for basically an entire season. So I’m sorry, but he wasn’t getting “spanked” during those innings, at least not significantly more than any other pitcher in the league would have been in his place.

  • Ron

    Offering Andy $10 mil is a BASIC negotiating tactic. Cashman probably has him slotted for $12 -14 mil, but if he STARTS with that, the Hendricks brothers will ask for more.

    There is nothing insulting at all with Cashman’s OPENING bid. The only people who are insulted are those who know nothing about negotiating strategy.

  • JeffG

    “Fool me once shame on you… … …uh …. … uhh … fool me twice… …uh you can’t fool me again.” – soon to be x wisdom installer.
    Anyways, Cash got bent over by the Hendrick’s brothers with Clemens perhaps he’s learning a bit. Good to see. He has been the king of the bloated contract – glad to see this season our GM is getting a little money wise.

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