Open Thread: Arbitration absurdity
By
Teams and their arbitration eligible players had to exchange salary figures by today, although over thirty players (of 111 eligibles) have already agreed to deals prior to the deadline. Xavier Nady was one of those players, Ryan Howard was not. The Phillies’ first baseman submitted a salary figure of $18M (!!!) despite just over four years of service time. The Phils countered with $14M, and the two sides appear headed to a February hearing. Howard has the stats – including a Rookie of the Year trophy, an MVP (not to mention a second place and fifth place finish), a World Series Title, and 153 HR & 431 RBI over the last three years – but is he really worthy of being the fifth highest paid hitter in the game today? Perhaps even more fitting, is he really deserving of $2M more in annual salary than Albert Pujols? I think the arbitrator will side with the Phils’ braintrust on this one.
Elsewhere in salary arbitration land, Jonathan Papelbon agreed to $6.25M salary today, setting a new record for first year eligible relievers. The previous record was the $5.6M Bobby Jenks received just yesterday. That’s a lot of moola for a pair of guys who threw just 4.8 and 4.2% of their teams’ total innings last year, respectively. In case you’re wondering, Mariano Rivera settled for $4.25M in his first year of arbitration.
Brian Bruney is the Yanks’ only remaining arbitration-eligible player after Melky agreed to a deal worth $1.4M. Melky Cabrera. $1.4M. I’ve always said that Melky was a nice guy to have around as a fourth outfielder until he started making seven figures in arbitration, and now that time has come. Yikes. Bruney asked for $1.55M, the Yanks offered $1.1M. They should hammer that one out.
If you want to follow along all the arbitration madness, I suggest doing so on The Biz of Baseball’s convenient tracker. DePo has a nice breakdown of the process in case you’re wondering what the hell arbitration is.
Here’s your open thread. The Rangers are playing their last game before the All-Star break, and if you’re into American Idol, well then I suppose you already know that’s on tonight too. Have fun.
224 Comments»
RAB Info
The Founders
Mike Axisa, Ben Kabak, Joe Pawlikowski
Editor-In-Chief
Mike Axisa Archives | Email
Managing Editors
Ben Kabak Archives | E-mail
Joe Pawlikowski Archives | E-mail
Contributing Editors
Larry Koestler (Archives)
Moshe Mandel (Archives)
Eric Schultz (Archives)
Weekend Writers
Hannah Ehrlich (Archives)
Matthew Warden (Archives)
Special Contributor
J.R. O'Grady (Archives)
Technical Consultant
Jay Gordon
Subscribe to RAB by RSS
Follow @RiverAveBlues
Search RAB
Yankees News from YESNetwork.com
- Report: Yankees acquire Fernando Martinez from Houston
- Dodgers-Yankees rained out, doubleheader set
- Yankees put 1B Mark Teixeira back on disabled list
- Two Charleston RiverDogs pitchers added to SAL All-Star Game
- Mattingly excited for return to the Bronx
- Sabathia steps up for Yankees in West Coast finale against Angels
- No new tears in right wrist for Mark Teixeira
- Angels send Yankees to fifth straight loss, 6-2
- Mark Teixeira leaves Saturday's game in fourth inning
- Wilson pitches Angels to 5-2 win over Yankees
Banner Design By
The Tyler Austin Watch
Off track. Is that mlb front office manage game legit? or is it just a prank
It comes out next Tuesday. It’s the MLB equivalent of NFL Head Coach basically.
http://ps3.ign.com/objects/142/14288576.html
Think it will be good? Worth the $$?
No idea. I’ll probably get it this weekend (the store around the corner form me always sells games early) and post a review Monday.
Its only 40 bucks. I will have a review on my blog for those that are on the fence.
40 bucks is alot for me when I’m only pulling in a couple hundred a month while paying portions of money for gas, insurance, and a phone bill. Haha
Its 20$ less than most games.
I still play the PS2 dude lol..I go over my boy’s house to play the newer games… Never really was a big video game guy so I’m not complaining.
I still rock the PS2, as well. If it weren’t for the fact that I was saving up for a new laptop, I would so spring for a PS3 just for this front office game though, haha.
Awesome pic. The only thing with Papelbon is he is the only RS player that admits it is all about the money. Dusty and Youk just play for the love of the game.
For what it’s worth, via the system I used in my blog, Howard projects to be worth 17 million and change this year so 18 isn’t too far fetched.
Pujols was worth 40 mill las year wasn’t he? Doesn’t mean he should get it.
He projects to be worth 34.9 this year.
That’s just crazy.
I can’t find that post, but I’m guessing you used free agent dollars to get the $17 figure. Howard should receive only a percentage of that number, since he’s not eligible to offer his services to any team.
Let me grab the link. I’m actually putting it up as a pinch hitting piece on Petey Abe on the 26th.
http://actyankee.blogspot.com/.....worth.html
y’should put up something original for Pete Abe, just a word of warning.
Too late. Already sent it in, haha.
but are you figuring he is worth $17M as a free agent?
The thing is, he’s a 2nd year arbitration player, not a free agent. Arbitration cases get compared to players with similar service time. He’s not supposed to get as much as he’d get as a free agent.
“Melky Cabrera settled for $1.4 million from the Yankees.”
Is Freddie (bang the pot guy) getting $600,000 this year?
-Scott
200,000 and free tickets to the home games.
That story is obviously false.
I clearly remember reading that Melky settled for cab fare and a bag o’ donuts.
BTW-Which was about 11 donuts more than he deserved.
He wanted Reggageton CD’s but Yanks did not give in.
He should go to the Mets. As part of their new acquisition welcome package is an “I-pod like” device from Chinatown loaded with the total Daddy Yankee and Omar Tego Calderon catalog. Jose Reyes said “I celebrate the mans entire catalog”
Me:
“I’m sorry but I’m still trying understand this arbitration thing, if they don’t reach on a deal i.e Ryan Howard and the Phillies, does that mean he becomes a FA right now?”
Mike Pop:
“Nope, they take it to a hearing. Then a group of arbitrators decide.”
Ok, so who are these arbitrators? Are they MLB staff or team staff, and what if the player doesn’t want to decrease their offer, do they become a FA then?
The arbitrators don’t work for MLB at all. If it goes to a hearing, the arbitrator picks between the player’s figure or the team’s figure. There’s no middle ground. If the player doesn’t like it, too bad.
They could of course retire rather than face the indignity of playing baseball for only a few million dollars.
Manny should do that, or go to Japan
Wait, so they CAN’T become a FA no matter what? If the player doesn’t agree to the team’s deal, can’t they just play for another team?
Nope. The only way they can become a free agent is if the team releases them.
i had the feeling that Melky was going to make more than expected.
he had a fairly strong case just based on his playing time. for 2+ years, he was the starting CFer for the NY Yankees.
Somewhere, Melky is smirking as we speak.
Message to Cash:
Adam Dunn please
I wish. There’s just too much of a logjam at this point.
There was an article on mlbtr yesterday where someone believed he wouldnt cost more then 5 mill, i dont think that would be such a bad idea.
Five mil? Hes worth at least twice that. If Billy Beane signed him for five million. That A’s team would suddenly win the division
I’ll lock him up for 2 years.
WAIT WAIT WAIT,
You would prefer Adam Dunn over Matt Holliday!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Really
Yes yes yes
What’s the cost? I’d probably take Dunn on the deal he’ll get than an out of Coors Holliday for a $100 mil long term deal.
Cheaper. Good home/away splits.
40+ homers in each of the last 5 years.
100+ walks in 6/8 pro seasons
Yea he’s cheaper for a reason
.247 BA
Holliday: .319
That’s career BA, come on, you get what you pay for.
That is not the right way to look at it. BA is a dumb dumb statistic.
Pfff yeah and so is ERA
Both kind of are. Pettitte pitched alot better than his ERA suggested. I trust ERA more than BA but they both are not the best way to judge either a pitcher or batter.
ERA is more telling for a pitcher than AVG is for a hitter
you have got to be kidding
Holliday needs to prove he can hit out of Coors’ Field, The altitude helps hitters ALOT. Plus playing an additional 70 Million for Holliday isn’t really worth it.
Yes, you’d really have to consider whether $100 mil is better spent on Holliday or Dunn+++.
BA. Are we really using that to determine worth? Juan Pierre’s career BA is .300. Is he worth more than Dunn?
Not to mention for a quarter of the price.
And performance wise too
I don’t understand this one?
Batting average? You’re gonna use batting average? Alright fine.
Dunn has a career OBP only 4 points lower than Holliday’s despite a much lower batting average. Adam Dunn is much better at getting on base than Matt Holliday.
I hate bringing this up but I’m gonna look at their home/away splits.
H/A
Dunn: .929/.871
Holliday: 1.068/.803
If you click the “Neutralize Stats” button on their B-R pages, you get what they would each do in a neutral setting. Their career holy trinities if they were in a neutral place:
Dunn: .250/.386/.524/.910
Holliday: .303/.368/.523/.891
Holliday gets helped out by Coors. A lot.
And come on…I don’t know you but I know you’re smart enough to not rely on batting average.
He’s not getting any respect. I want Cash to jump all over Dunn. The problem is that makes Swish a 4th OF/Utility, is that okay? I assume it is better to trade Nady than Swish. Short porch for him, maybe we could see 50 HR’s out of him.
Anything’s possible–KG
Since we agreed to a deal with Nady does this make him more or less attractive to other teams?
Or do you think this means Cash wants to hold on to him
Neither, it’s just a process that all arb-eligible players have to go through.
Batting Average is important. I don’t understand how you say Dunn is better at getting on base than Holliday if Dunn’s OBP is 4 points lower. It doesn’t make sense, Batting Average tells you a lot about a player, especially if you’re looking to attain him for offensive reasons.
Batting Average shows you the ability to get on base without relying on the pitchers talent, OBP shows plate discipline, a good eye, but it also reflects game situations, pitcher’s decision…
You guys are saying that we should get Dunn instead of Holliday because of a cheaper price. Are you kidding me? That’s absurd, players get paid what they’re worth, Matt Holliday will be more expensive than Dunn because he is a better Baseball player, it’s that simple.
I can’t believe this, Dunn over Holliday, hah yea right
What do you expect Holliday to do in Oakland? Considering the OBP difference is only 4 points with Coors, without Dunn should leap ahead. Remember, a hitter goes to the plate and either gets out, or he doesn’t. Adjusting for parks, Dunn gets out less often than Holliday, regardless of batting average. Would you rather have a .250/.400/.500 guy or a .315/.365/.500 guy? Give me the first line any day of the week.
Me too.
We will see if Holliday’s numbers goes down… don’t forget that Dunn has been hitting in a hitter friendly park himself
Yes, Dunn played in a hitter friendly park, but does not have the huge hitting splits that Holliday has. Dunn has been much better on the road than Holliday has. Dunn’s home/road numbers are comparable, Holliday’s are night and day.
And if players get paid “what they’re worth”, explain how Carl Pavano brought home $10 mil last year.
Dude, come on.
Contracts obviously project what a player is worth before he signs and reflects prior performance, not every player lives up to their past success.
And if Holliday in Oakland lives up to his prior performance (hint, he won’t) he’ll get a huge contract.
If his OBP is only 4 points lower despite having a 60 point lower BA, isn’t that impressive? Mike Cameron has never hit for a high average but he is a heck of a ballplayer. Your point is dumb. If you could get Dunn for 1/4 of the price say for 30 and Holliday cost 120. Why wouldn’t you want Dunn?
“I don’t understand how you say Dunn is better at getting on base than Holliday if Dunn’s OBP is 4 points lower. It doesn’t make sense,”
Because Adam Dunn’s OBP isn’t made up of mostly his batting average like Matt Holliday’s. Holliday may get more hits, but Dunn will walk about 50 more times than him in a 162 game season.
“Batting Average tells you a lot about a player, especially if you’re looking to attain him for offensive reasons. ”
No, it doesn’t. All it tells you is how many times he got a hit. It doesn’t include walks or HBPs. A hitter’s job is to get on base any way he can. A high BA w/a low OBP means that the player is either getting a hit or making an out which is not valuable.
“Batting Average shows you the ability to get on base without relying on the pitchers talent, OBP shows plate discipline, a good eye, but it also reflects game situations, pitcher’s decision…”
And getting a hit relies on the exact same thing only in a much more random fashion. The most the hitter can do is make contact with the ball. After that, he has very little control over where it goes. If I hit a line drive, it might go right at someone. If I hit a little dribbler, it could just roll under someone’s glove or bounce through the middle. Much more random and unreliable than a walk.
“You guys are saying that we should get Dunn instead of Holliday because of a cheaper price. Are you kidding me?”
No, because saving money is a good thing, especially on an underrated player like Adam Dunn. Dunn gets on base a lot and hits a lot of home runs–that type of player is perfect for the Yankees.
“That’s absurd, players get paid what they’re worth, Matt Holliday will be more expensive than Dunn because he is a better Baseball player, it’s that simple.”
No, it’s not that simple. Adam Dunn gets on base and hits a shit-ton of homers. He would also cost a lot less money despite being a VERY comparable player.
Perfect explanation.
Matt, i never planned on having a serious debate with a fellow RABer but here it goes:
___
“I don’t understand how you say Dunn is better at getting on base than Holliday if Dunn’s OBP is 4 points lower. It doesn’t make sense,”
Because Adam Dunn’s OBP isn’t made up of mostly his batting average like Matt Holliday’s. Holliday may get more hits, but Dunn will walk about 50 more times than him in a 162 game season.
___
So you’re implying that it’s more important to be able to walk than to be able to hit? OBP is OBP regardless of the form that it is obtained, Holliday’s OBP was high because of his ability to get a base hit.
___
“Batting Average tells you a lot about a player, especially if you’re looking to attain him for offensive reasons. ”
No, it doesn’t. All it tells you is how many times he got a hit. It doesn’t include walks or HBPs. A hitter’s job is to get on base any way he can. A high BA w/a low OBP means that the player is either getting a hit or making an out which is not valuable.
___
Getting on base is part of hitter’s job, however a hitter’s main priority should be hitting, hence the word hitter.
___
“Batting Average shows you the ability to get on base without relying on the pitchers talent, OBP shows plate discipline, a good eye, but it also reflects game situations, pitcher’s decision…”
And getting a hit relies on the exact same thing only in a much more random fashion. The most the hitter can do is make contact with the ball. After that, he has very little control over where it goes. If I hit a line drive, it might go right at someone. If I hit a little dribbler, it could just roll under someone’s glove or bounce through the middle. Much more random and unreliable than a walk.
___
Take this back, this is a horrible statement.
Making contact is not the most a hitter can do, are you kidding me? It takes talent and skill, being able to pull a ball or even hitting a home run;it has nothing to do with just contact. You don’t just put the bat on the ball and see what happens from there. Hitters have different stances, techniques and swings, along with talent this is what makes a hitter who they are. I was disappointed when i read that.
___
“You guys are saying that we should get Dunn instead of Holliday because of a cheaper price. Are you kidding me?”
No, because saving money is a good thing, especially on an underrated player like Adam Dunn. Dunn gets on base a lot and hits a lot of home runs–that type of player is perfect for the Yankees.
___
The Yankees we both love and the ones you’re talking about don’t rely on “saving money” , we might as well forget about A-Rod and Teixeira because we could’ve gone with our farm system in order to save some money, right?
___
Your first point is still flawed, why I agree with the rest of the argument, if Hollidays OBP is higher than Dunns then he is better at getting on base than Dunn its that simple.
If we take the normalization that a walk is as good as hit the majority of the time, thus being able to throw out BA and only use OBP, key to your argument, then you can’t flip and say that a walk is better than a hit, and therefore the greater the spread between your OBP and BA the better you are at getting on base. That simply isn’t true, as there’s really never a situation where a walk is better than a hit, just the vast majority of the time it doesn’t matter which one gets the player on base.
Adam Dunn is better at getting walks than Holliday, true. But thus far Dunn is worse (albeit very little) than getting on base as Holliday in their careers
You guys are arguing over who’s better, but the fact is they’re both premium offensive players and any difference between them is nitpicking.
Bottom line, you’re looking at Holliday for $80M+ vs Dunn for like, $30M. That’s not even close.
“So you’re implying that it’s more important to be able to walk than to be able to hit? OBP is OBP regardless of the form that it is obtained, Holliday’s OBP was high because of his ability to get a base hit.”
No, I’m saying it’s important to do both. Holliday gets hits at a good rate but he doesn’t walk at anything more than an average rate. His batting average is also aided by his home park. A lot.
“Getting on base is part of hitter’s job, however a hitter’s main priority should be hitting, hence the word hitter. ”
You’re basing your argument on semantics. To be a complete hitter, one should be able to work walks and get on base some other way than hitting.
“Take this back, this is a horrible statement.
Making contact is not the most a hitter can do, are you kidding me? It takes talent and skill, being able to pull a ball or even hitting a home run;it has nothing to do with just contact. You don’t just put the bat on the ball and see what happens from there. Hitters have different stances, techniques and swings, along with talent this is what makes a hitter who they are. I was disappointed when i read that.”
You’re taking my statement incredibly literally. Hitting the ball is obviously an incredible skill. I know that. Making contact is the part the batter can control–after that…not so much. Can the batter control if the ball goes right to the fielder or dribbles past his glove? No. If they could, wouldn’t everyone bat for an incredibly high average? Once the ball leaves the bat, the batter can’t do anything but run and hope it lands over the fence or “where they ain’t.”
“The Yankees we both love and the ones you’re talking about don’t rely on “saving money” , we might as well forget about A-Rod and Teixeira because we could’ve gone with our farm system in order to save some money, right?”
You’re mis-interpreting what I’m saying. There is no other 3B in baseball better than Alex Rodriguez. There is arguably only one, maybe two, first basemen better than Teixeira. Very few players are comparable to A-Rod and Tex. Many players, including Adam Dunn, are comparable to Matt Holliday.
If Matt Holliday has a good year in Oakland and proves he can hit away from Coors, then I think the Yankees should–and will–make a run at him.
A.D,
Thanks, at least someone’s making sense here
Do you by any chance work in the financial field, I sometimes see it in your vocab haha, or is it just me.
Consulting..close enough
“Your first point is still flawed, why I agree with the rest of the argument, if Hollidays OBP is higher than Dunns then he is better at getting on base than Dunn its that simple.”
If we take the normalization that a walk is as good as hit the majority of the time, thus being able to throw out BA and only use OBP, key to your argument, then you can’t flip and say that a walk is better than a hit, and therefore the greater the spread between your OBP and BA the better you are at getting on base. That simply isn’t true, as there’s really never a situation where a walk is better than a hit, just the vast majority of the time it doesn’t matter which one gets the player on base.”
No, a hit is rarely better than a walk. The run value of a hit is always bigger than the run value of a walk. I’m not saying batting average should be thrown out. It should be taken into context. Automatically saying that Dunn is a worse player than Holliday because of a lower batting average is not a reasonable thing to say. I’ll take a low batting average if it comes with a high on base percentage and a lot of power. If it’s a guy like…I don’t know…Corey Patterson?…then a low BA is no good. But if it’s a guy like Dunn or Killebrew, a low BA is more than excusable.
This is going nowhere, you’re simply saying the same thing all over again.
Here it is:
Who has a better OBP?
Who has a better AVG?
Who has better slugging?
Who strike out less?
Who’s the better OF?
And who’s the better baseball player?
If the Yankees have an opportunity to chose between the two, it’ll also be Matt Holliday.
Get it?
Holliday is the better defender.
Holliday was also helped a TON by his home park.
Dunn’s OPS dropped 58 points away from TGABP. Holliday’s dropped 265 points. 265. His .803 away OPS is still very good but when it’s almost a 300 point drop from Coors…wow. That’s not a great sign.
I don’t dislike Matt Holliday. Like I said, if he has a good year in an incredibly pitcher’s friendly park, the Yankees–and a bunch of other AL teams–should and will make a run at him. But if he stumbles, I think he’ll be running back to the NL faster than you can say “Moneyball.”
The right question is this:
What is a better expenditure of resources? Holliday’s expected Yankee stadium production over the 6-8 years at 20 per that he’ll get, or dunn at 3/21 – 4/40 and whatever else the difference will get you?
Matt I agree with you, my issue was with the sentence from up top:
Dunn has a career OBP only 4 points lower than Holliday’s despite a much lower batting average. Adam Dunn is much better at getting on base than Matt Holliday.
My point was OBP = getting on base, thus Holliday is better by a few points, Dunn is better at walking, not getting on base, and I went on to say if you’re going to take the BA to OBP spread as more important than OBP, then you would value a walk greater than a hit, which doesn’t make sense.
All it all its a wording issue.
That’s the part that makes Dunn a no brainer over Holliday, with all things considered.
“All it all its a wording issue.”
Gotta love semantics, huh?
Maybe I’ll just turn on a video game and get Holliday and Dunn on the Yankees. Deal?
deal…we can see who puts up the better numbers & gets on base more!
Speaking of getting on base:
am I the only one who finds it way too stupidly difficult to work walks in video games? I’m awful at it. In Road to the Show, I’m a 3B w/the Phils (Cy Young winning right hander for the Yankees in another) and the diff between my OBP/BA is only like…40 points. I get so excited when I work a walk. I’m a total hacker.
Really? I make Barry Bonds look like Wilson Betemit. I work the count like a fiend. Not necessary to take walks, but just to get into hitter counts. If you get the count to 2-0 or 3-1, then you can use the power swing and cheat fastball. Once I get to two strikes, then I go into protect mode.
I usually take the first pitch, but every once in a while you have to swing at one otherwise the game will adjust to you.
I struggle most against pitchers that just pound the zone because I’m always behind in the count. I got no-hit by Mark freaking Redman last year because everything he threw was over the plate and at the knees. I couldn’t do anything with it. That game still haunts me.
Yeah I’m definitely good at working counts. I usually take til at least I have a strike on me. It seems like I’ll usually get to 2-2, 3-2, etc. but either get a hit or make an out.
I threw a PG w/Hamels last year. It was nice–esp. ’cause I had him do it in Pinstripes.
Ah I hear you. I draw a decent amount of walks, not a ton. The pitcher can definitely run into some funks and walk 2 or 3 guys in a row. At that point I just say “okay, show me you can throw to strikes in a row now.”
And I still haven’t thrown a no-hitter/perfect game in The Show. Last one I threw in a video game was with a computer generated pitcher I recruited in MVP 06 NCAA Baseball. In a MLB game, it was with Pavano in MVP 05.
Maybe this is just because I have the PS2 version but every so often, I get a problem with freezing. It doens’t happen when I do Franchise mode and it doesn’t happen when I do my pitcher RTTS but every so often with my hitter, it freezes. It never freezes when I go 0-4 with a K and a GIDP but it ALWAYS happens when I fuckin’ go 3-4 with a walk and 2 doubles.
“In a MLB game, it was with Pavano in MVP 05.”
Dude! I did the same thing! In the World Series no less!
Yeah, I threw at least two no-no’s with Pavano in that game, plus one each with RJ and J-Wright.
I haven’t had a problem with the freezing on PS3, but I remember that problem with the PS2. Adding the ability to save mid-game last year was huge. I used to have to abandon games all the time because I had to go somewhere or had something to do.
Just one more reason I love my PSP, I never need to abandon games in progress.
I like being able to fast-forward and sim-through games, that’s nice when I get bored/have class.
Oh and the reason he’s cheap is because people like you overvalue batting average.
These people like me must be doing something right since they’re capable of over-valuing someone, they’re the ones working for a Major League team.
Better luck next time
My point is that people who say Adam Dunn isn’t a good player because he has a low batting average are very short sighted. Harmon Killebrew batted .260 or something for his career but he got on base a lot and hit a ton of homers. You don’t need a high BA to be a great hitter.
No one said he isn’t a good player Matt, he’s just not as good as Holliday.
By the way way my name is Manny last name not Ramirez though haha
Can I still call you Man-Ram? Or at least…Palpatine? Or Darth? Or maybe Grand Moff Tarkin?
Haha i wanna get the joke but I don’t know what anything after Man-Ram means.
Evil Empire is a “Star Wars” reference and those are all characters from “Star Wars.”
How old are you?
I’m 18, I knew that Evil Empire was a Star Wars reference, and yeah I know Darth, but i’ve never seen the movie, I was young when it released and I’ve wanted to watch the series in order starting with the first movie, but I don’t own it so yea, maybe in 2009 lol
Well those references are from Episodes 4-6–the REAL “Star Wars” movies. Those other three are just…ugh.
Maybe we can meet up at a game and you can lend me those movies haha
Haha, sounds good.
and he doesn’t love the game!!!!
But in all seriousness, Dunn is cheaper because:
A. he’s in a shit market, he did make 13M last year, one would have guessed he could be getting 16M or so this year not that far off of Holliday rumors
B. Dunn is much worse defensively, its about a 15 point UZR/150 difference
C. As you say the Avg perception, and a slightly worse OBP and Slug, which of course could be Coors aided.
Don’t forget:
Base Clogger.
I have a feeling that anyone who uses that phrase now is just doing so ironically. I really don’t think it’s possible to use that phrase and be taken seriously.
Oh good grief. I haven’t seen anyone use that term correctly in years. For some reason people thing it refers to a guy that gets on base a ton and is slow as shit. In reality, it just means he’s slow. It never had anything to do with how good a player was at getting on base.
It refers to the player’s speed, that’s all.
That’s how I feel when people say “emo.”
NoMaas hitting it out of the park, once again
http://www.nomaas.org/
Top 2 pix are vintage NoMaas.
Wow. That MLK pic is unbelievably funny.
Ya, it is awesome. So random but so great.
The inauguration costed about 165 million with all the balls and stuff. The Wall Street firms payed for it. The yankees should have, and called it a new pitcher
Apparently we have a BoSox fan in the house.
Nah man i love the yanks. Just a moneyball loving cynic.
*Somewhere Joe Morgan’s ears have pricked up and he speaks*
“Oh no. Someone said they love “Moneyball.” A part of baseball just died.”
LOL. *He pauses* “Billy Beane wrote Moneyball about himself and is an egotistical maniac”
http://www.baseball-reference......bi01.shtml
Probably the greatest underachiever of all time. He had the talent to do anything
. . . . except play Baseball.
o he could play baseball
Just not very well.
Gotta love his 1989 season with an OBP lower than his BA.
Maybe he forgot to run to 1B a few times.
Inaugurations need a salary cap. Obama is ruining the event.
Melk was worth league minimum for a first and second year player. He is now not worth his salary. I think he is going to be playing his final season with the Yanks this year.
Maybe, but not over the 1 mil. They’d gladly give him the mil if he performed like he did in 07 or in April of 08.
If they release him, it will be because he’s out of options.
yes, but next year he could get $2-3M in arbitration at which point the yankees may just non-tender him.
that was his point.
Over 2 mil for someone who could help them win? I don’t see it happening.
My point was that the Yanks would gladly pay him 1, 2, 3 or 5 mil if he produces. Maybe its a chicken and egg thing where we’re all assuming he won’t perform. But if he puts up a .280/.360/.391 line like he did in 06, then they’ll happily pay him. If he doesn’t produce, then he will be sent to AAA and/or released when he’s out of options. So it really comes down to whether he produces or not, not the money.
“My point was that the Yanks would gladly pay him 1, 2, 3 or 5 mil if he produces.”
That is pretty obvious. The Yankees would pay anybody who will perform that is not an issue here. The issue is Melky is not that good of a ballplayer. When he was making almost nothing in baseball terms he had a value and that value was he was OK and cheap. Now he is not that cheap and not that OK.
I’d guess if it go to that they’d come up with a random trade that doesn’t turn into much for either team.
Fringe starts up again tonight! Can’t wait.
What do you suppose is the hold up with Bruney?
He keeps throwing the pen in the dirt.
LOL
I hate Papelbon. He is an immature prick
Like the whole “I should close out the all star game” fiasco?
Yeah that and the way he acted after they won the division
His dancing was ridiculous. Just a complete joke.
not to mention his interview after the game while he was drinking a bottle of champagne
Damn Hick!
If he continues being as good as hes been and makes the HOF. I will cry to think that Mo will have to share a building with this man forever
I don’t care because he will never ever be as good as Mo.
Dumb ass! Doesn’t he know you’re supposed to leave the room like our Captain does!
Yeah, and that whole fist pumping thing is so utterly dickless.
I’m glad we don’t ha . . . . . wait a minute.
and you called me a sox fan
Hahahahahah!
I was just about to type that, and then went WHOOPS!
So then I posted it anyway as a joke.
Let’s face it, us fans are all hypocrites. Its part of the deal.
Just to put Melky’s contract in perspective, Willie Taveras got $1.975M in 2008, which would have been his first arbitration year. I think you can make a case that Melky has a better case than Taveras.
exactly. some people *cough Pete Abe cough* don’t really understand how the process works.
the Yankees had a decent chance of losing their case and having to pay him $1.7M.
the people over there are acting like the Yankees just gave him a 5 year extension.
Willy Taveras put up a career year in ’07 going 320/367/382 with 33 steals.. Melky slugged .341 last year.
So I think if Melk put up a Taveras ’07 I’d be happy given his 268/329/374 career line
That’s only one year. These numbers are based on multiple years (as they should be).
yeah, but the recent year helps, he also had ROY runner up & had improved hitting each year…basically I could see how his agent could have made a better case than Melky’s digressing stats
*Well 05 to 06 didnt really improve, but stayed the same
Wish i could make some Melky money!
Don’t we all, don’t we all.
Work on your smirk and waving to the bleacher creatures.
Anyone have a good res sox blog i could go on to piss off some red sox fans
take your pick:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/main
Melky’s agent the next Boras??
Is Jason Repko a AAAA player, or might he be worth a small time trade given his trade demand?
Did you notice the part where his agent said that they’ve been asking for a trade for the last 2 years? That means either LA doesn’t want to trade him (so we’d have to “bowl them over”) or NO ONE else wants him (including Cash & Co.)
I’d just like to briefly point out that Melky Cabrera will make more in one year sitting on the bench then I will make in 35 years as a teacher at my current salary.
Lots of people can teach but very, very few can play Baseball at the major league level. It’s just supply and demand. Plus, people don’t pay $50+ a ticket to watch you teach, but they do pay to see Melky’s team play Baseball. So he gets paid 1 mil because he helps generate many millions in revenue for the team.
Hollywood actors make upwards of 80 mil per year, but no one seems to mind that. Yet many seem to begrudge MLB players making what they can while they are able to. I’ve never understood that. Its not as if any of us can replace them, we can’t.
Chose the wrong profession.
Nah, the world needs Teachers. Just have to learn to live with the choices we all make.
BTW- The life of a ballplayer isn’t guaranteed to be a good one. Check this story out.
http://www.bronxbanterblog.com.....on-wagner/
Holy Crap guys, I just got back from a month and a half trip to Italy and I found out we got CC, AJ, and Tex. What else did I miss? It seems like I missed quite a bit. Someone fill me in please
First tell us about Italy. Sounds like a great trip.
Boston had a better offseason by signing Baldelli, Smoltz, Penny, and Saito.
Italy was great, we went all over and really dont remember much, I’ve been up for over 24 hrs(cant sleep on plane)Boston signed Baldelli, doesnt he have some type of disorder that makes him not play all season, As for Penny, thats not a bad pick-up, people seem to forget how good he was even if it was in the NL. Smoltz???? WHY?
What about Pettite, I had thought we were going after Sheets. As for Tex, I take it Cashman did the same thing when he got Damon(Were fine with Crosby)
1-Yanks also got Nick Swisher+ for Wilson Betemit+
2-Baldelli got a new diagnosis from the highly respected Cleveland Clinic which said his condition is much less serious than originally thought.
3-Penny has a bad shoulder and was horrible for the Dodgers last year. He also has a rep for not always being in great shape.
4-Smoltz is 42 and coming off shoulder surgery. But this is John Smoltz, so you can’t count him out. Mid season 09 at the earliest for him.
5-Yanks and Pettitte can’t come to an agreement on a contract. Yanks offered 10 mil and he refused it.
6-Tell me more about Italy
Obama, was elected President. Obama was innagurated President.
ahhh you were in Italy?!
Am jealous.
Meh I don’t care much about Melky. I hope he’ll bounce back. If he could at least hit .270 I’ll be happy if he tries harder to win. Look at those Ray players. They hardly have anyone hitting above 300. They win by trying. Something some Yankee players need to improve on. Like by stealing bases. Something that the Rays led in 2008. Then with one base hit, they then steal a base. They added pressure on the pitcher and the batter gets a single. A ray player would use all his energy to make that run home. The only people who steal bases on the Yankees are mostly Damon and occasionally A-rod. I really want a player with determination like those young players on the Rays. Hitting isn’t that important at least .250 but someone with a good OBP and someone who runs a lot. Basically Nick Swisher if he could steal bases. =/ If we can get players like those big bats aren’t really needed. (a la Manny)
Yeah no full time player hit over .300 for the Rays, and for that matter no one had an OBP over .400
yes, but they TRIED HARDER.
They should have tried harder than the Phillies, then they’d be champs.
The Rays probably choked. It’s their first world seires right? So that’s understandable. Plus we should have the best pitching rotation in the MLB if Burnett stays healthy. And we’re going to need a fifth starter. I think pettitte is going to have to suck it up. 10 million dollars is a lot of money so idk what this guy is complaining about. It’s not like he’s gonna starve. Seriously Pettitte I lost respect for you. Does he want his career ending being known as a greedy pig during an economic recession or a started who helped the Yankees win their first world series in the new stadium for the cost of 6 million dollars? We actually need Pettitte in our rotation spot for the best possible lineup if things get messy which might. He’ll eat up innings and put up some decent numbers. Hopefully our offense can back him up. But in all likeliness one of our starters are going to get injured. Probably Burnett or Joba. Wang only got injured from running the bases since he is only a pitcher after all. I love how people think he’s an injury prone guy after one injury due to RUNNING. So when someone gets injured we have Hughes or Aceves to cover. Hopefully Kennedy improves but I think he needs another year, he’s got potential. I’m pretty sure Pettitte is going to come back or the Yankees will cough up an extra million or two.
Wang got injured because he wasn’t trying hard enough to not get injured.
Did you know Wang pulled a hamstring ON THE MOUND in ’07? (Yes I know half the team also pulled a hammy that year) Or that he also had shoulder trouble in the minors? Now, I don’t agree that Wang is “injury prone” as some have said, but they say so due to legit concerns, not rounding 3rd in Houston.
Well, their 2nd best in the AL ERA probably helped, too.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....-deal.html
I gotta say in what I’ll call the stylized word of Joe D, I thank god for making me a Yankees fan.
Heath Bell long term deal is the biggest news for the Pads…I hope I never am hanging onto if the Yanks are going to lock up Jose Veras
Bell is outstanding, so it makes sense for the Pads, but handing a reliever a long term deal just doesn’t make sense to me. They’re so damn volatile.
And yes, if signing a reliever to a LTD was the only thing my team gave me to be excited about, it would suck.
haha yeah i understand he’s very good…but its middle relief… though soon to be closer
What’s going on with Headley? Still a stud, playing LF?
The power of TEH SAVE!!1
Can’t this useless stat be removed from monetary negotiations? K-Rod get $37m in FA, Papeldick gets $6m in arb, etc. Meanwhile Heath Bell gets $1.225m but he’s an equal quality pitcher, he just happened to pitch in the 8th inning instead of the 9th. Saves = BS $$$.
These deals have been all the rage for a few years, but now teams seem to be doing these extensions wherever possible. It’s smart, the FA market is down drastically and they’re taking advantage of it. Some players will also opt for some financial security in these bad economic times. Even if they get burned on a few of these deals, they’re still ahead of the game.
I’m getting tempted to drop everything and become a Spanish translator. Someone talk me out of it, please?
don’t do it.
didn’t you say your spanish wasn’t that good….how many jobs are out there for bad spanish translators?
I’m sure the State Department would take her.
Gee, thanks.
haha…I’m conversant, not fluent. It’s easiest for me to translate written Spanish into English. Spoken…not a chance. And going from English to Spanish? Not a chance, either.
alright fair enough… you probably threw in “my spanish isn’t that good” modesty comment that I was remembering
Try Portuguese and take me to Brazil.
Don’t do it, you’ll regeret it in the long run. Hasn’t this election of Barack Obama taught you anything? Now the quote “Yes We Can” is something you should look more into!
Good?
About half of your comments both here and on Lohud are in spanish haha
Heh, only when I’m talking to Brandon =P
What kind of world do we live in when a ball player whose poor play forced his team to demote him to the minor leagues gets a raise from $461,200 to $1.4 million?
the world where people spend billions of dollars to watch baseball?
I can’t believe no one has mentioned the inauguration today.
I did once, to tell ‘just arrived’ that he got innagurated
1. I think everybody pretty much respects the unwritten rule of sports blogs that political discussions are taboo.
2. I can’t speak for others, but the volume of stuff I’ve heard in regards to Barack Obama and his “hope for change” leading up to this day has made me sick. I just want people to shut the hell up. about it, it’s nauseating.
Gotcha.
We had a big music discussion a week ago, how about a movie one? Eh? Anyone?
Now we’re talkin! Best movie ever = FIGHT CLUB.
I like “Fight Club” a lot. I think it gets a little overhyped but it’s still good overall.
Maybe not the best, but definitely my fav. Just got Dark Knight on Blu-Ray.
Loved TDK. The “original” Batman w/Keaton and Nicholson was on last night–that’s a great one, too.
I’m pretty sure if I try and start a conversation about Douglas Sirk no one will get what I’m talking about, right?
Before my time sorry lol.
Well, he died the year I was born (1987) but I took a course all about him and he is an absolute genius.
Everyone should see “All That Heaven Allows”(1955, “Far From Heaven” with Dennis Haysbert, Dennis Quaid, and Julianne Moore was based loosely on Sirk’s) and “Imitation of Life,” (1959) his final feature.
I’ll look into those.
Yeah, he’s great. Both of them are melodramas that were canned when they came out for being women’s pictures but in retrospect, pretty much everyone agrees that Sirk’s a genius.
For a comparable visual style (not thematic) check out Paul Verhoeven (“Robocop,” “Starship Troopers,” “Basic Instinct,” “Total Recall,” etc.) He, like Sirk, was canned for “trashy” material but his filmmaking is both beautiful and complex. His Dutch features are great, too. “Turks Fruit” is his best and if you’re not moved by it, you have a heart of stone. “Imitation of Life” is like that, too. It contains literally the saddest scene in the history of film.
You seen Saw 5?
Never got into the “Saw” series–not much of a horror fan, though I do love “The Shining.”
I’m a horror freak! The Shining was definitely one of the best movies ever made. Gotta love the original Dracula too. Speaking of which, I’s so hyped for Underworld!
Yeah, “The Shining” has one of my favorite shots in any movie–when he’s busting down the bathroom door with the axe and Kubrick has the camera follow the axe back and forth into the door.
Yea Kubrick’s the man! Clockwork is equally awesome. I met Malcolm McDowell last year on the observation deck of the Empire State Building. Damn cell-phone camera!
I never saw “Clockwork.”
Wow. Just wow.
Haha, yeah I know. I know people who haven’t seen “Citizen Kane” and that makes me angry.
LOL good point.
Way to violent for me! I liked Sound of Music.
I was there today, the images on TV really don’t do it justice, it was simply unbelievable. It was part disaster movie (with all the police and national guard around and sirenes blazing everywhere) and part massive block party (everyone was really happy and nice). That being said it was my one and only inauguration just because it was so amazingly busy and it took so long to get there and back home.
I’M GOING TO BE A DADDY!!!!!!!!
You poor bastard. Enjoy life while you can.
(That’s awesome, congrats)
LOL Thanx