Aug
31

Perrotto: Yanks want Damon back for one year

By

While we still have a month left of regular season baseball and, hopefully, a few weeks of October play in the Bronx, nothing dominates the conversation quite like the Hot Stove League does. In his latest weekend roundup, John Perrotto drops in a bit about the Yankees and Johnny Damon:

The Yankees would prefer to re-sign Johnny Damon to a one-year contract for 2010 and allow outfield prospect Austin Jackson a second year to develop at Triple-A, meanwhile pursuing such big-name free-agent outfielders as Matt Holliday and Jason Bay in the offseason.

This is not, of course, the first time we’ve heard the rumblings about Damon and the Yanks. We looked at some early Damon rumors on the 18th and the potential costs of a deal on the 25th. One way or another, Damon and the Yankees will exchange ample conversations about 2010 once November rolls around.

What strikes me about Perrotto’s report are the two other pieces. The first part involves Austin Jackson. As a 22-year-old at AAA, Jackson’s numbers are far from terrible. He is hitting .294/.352/.401 and has stolen 22 out of 26 bases. That’s the good of it.

The bad of it is rather extensive. He has hit just four home runs all season; he has struck out 118; and his BABIP is an unsustainable .386. Plugging his numbers into the Minor League Equivalences tool gives us a line of .255/.301/.340. He makes Melky look like an All Star, and it is clear that Jackson needs a least part of another season at AAA.

Next up are the dueling Jason Bay/Matt Holliday rumors that Perrotto drops. For the most part this year, we’ve heard about varying degrees of interest the Yanks may have in these two players. Some sources say the Yankees will kick the tires on Bay — to force the Red Sox to pay more — and Holliday because he’d be a great fit for Yankee Stadium. Other sources say the Yankees are loath to dole out more multi-year contracts for aging outfielders and may not be in a position to do so financially after landing Mark Teixeira last winter.

Between Bay and Holliday, though, my choice would be Holliday. The current Cardinals outfielder is 21 months younger than Bay and has proven that he can hit outside of Coors Field this year. The idea of giving four or five years to either of these players though isn’t one I can readily embrace.

As the calendar marches on, we’ll hear a lot about Damon and the Yanks’ outfield plans for next year. They have a left field vacancy to consider and a center field spot that could use an upgrade. With Jackson potentially waiting in the wings but still some time away, the Yanks have some tough developmental choices to make this winter. How it plays out will be interesting indeed. It always is.

Addendum: Another reason the Yanks might be interested in retaining Damon.

  • Makavelli

    Like I’ve said before…

    Damon + New Yankee Stadium = Success

    1 year deal? I’ll take it. Although I’m sure Damon won’t. It’ll end up being a 1 year + Option contract at the very least. Perhaps a guaranteed 2 year deal? It will all depend on the numbers.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      1 + team option would be utterly fine with me.

      If he’s good again in 2010, and we have the room, he comes back again (as a DH). If not… sayonara. Win-win.

      • radnom

        It will probably take a player option.

        I didn’t think I would be at the start of this season, but I think I would be ok with that deal, if the yearly salary is reasonable.

        • Reggie C

          Damon’s got a deck named after him for a reason. I can’t see Damon falling off a cliff with the way he’s adjusted to the new Stadium. The offense is top-notch…elite for a corner OF. I think Damon’s got to be kept around for 2010, and i’d even go as far as to give him a player’s option for 2011.

          I think a 1+1 (PO) would get it done. I think Holliday is simply gonna ask for a 5 year deal at too high AAS. He’s not old and I think he’ll hit well here, but is Holliday really worth that investment when Damon’s a proven All-Star level contributor??

        • Ed

          They won’t do a player option. They’ll just do a buyout price that makes it a tough call if he has a decent but not great season next year.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Yup.

            What was the last player option we gave someone? Anybody? I’m drawing a blank, can’t remember us giving out player options.

            • pat

              Pettite. 2007.

              • pat

                But that was extenuating circumstances and his name is Pettitte, not Pettite, dummy.

                • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

                  dont you talk to pat like that!

            • Ed

              Pettitte when he first returned from Houston. But I think at that point the team was perfectly willing to give him a multi-year deal, whereas Pettitte wasn’t sure how happy his family would be with his going back to NY.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Copy, thanks.

                So, it’s rare.

            • Chris

              CC Sabathia this past offseason. Technically it’s an opt out, but it amounts to a 4 year $92M player option.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Technically it’s an opt out, but it amounts to a 4 year $92M player option.

                I was speaking specifically about single-year player options, not opt-out clauses that void multiple years.

                Thanks, though.

        • Makavelli

          What about a vesting option? So many at-bats and/or reaching certain milestones?

          It doesn’t seem we do this too much either…although Pettitte has it right now.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Damn that Pettitte, always asking for special treatment.

            • Makavelli

              LOL. I was thinking the same thing as I was posting the response.

  • Tony

    No Holliday, No Bay.

  • Kiersten

    I say keep the same OF for next year, considering our record, I don’t think it’s really hurt much. Then sign Crawford for 2011. I’ll lead the campaign to get him in pinstripes.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I want to see his 2010 season before I get on that bangwagon.

      I like his .312/.366/.459 line this year. But his .273/.319/.400 line from 2008 scares me. I’d like to see another good season from him as he enters his prime where he demonstrates that he’s more of a baseline .350 OBP guy over the next 4 years rather than the .330 OBP guy that his career numbers indicate before I agree to give him a multi-year contract.

      There is excellent potential there, though. His speed and defense are solid.

      • Mattingly’s Love Child

        His middling power could get a Damon like bump from the short porch in right as well…

        • Kiersten

          Exactly what I was thinking.
          Plus, his speed and range in the large YS left field would be a breath of fresh air. Dude’s made for NYS.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            I agree, it can be a match made in heaven.

            I just want one more good year to prove that his 2008 was a fluke, and I’m on board.

            • pat

              I agree, it can be a match made in heaven.

              Crawford in NY is like lamb and tuna fish!

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Crawford and the Yankees go together like peas and carrots.

                • pat

                  Woman who cooks carrots and peas in same pot.. unsanitary.

            • yankeegirl49

              My daughter..the president of the Carl Crawford fan club!

      • Mattingly’s Love Child

        Also his OBP had been trending upward as he approached his prime. Last year seemed more like a hiccup to me. But I’ve always coveted him, so I’m probably biased.

      • Reggie C

        If Crawford’s available … a big if given that Kaz’s salary is off the Rays’s book, that would throw a big wrench in the bring-back-Damon campaign. at least for me..

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          We’re not talking about this offseason, we’re talking about next one.

          And Kazmir is moot to the conversation. The reason they’d still let Crawford walk after 2010 is because of Desmond Jennings. The money they saved from Kazmir is going to pay for arb raises for Jason Bartlett, B.J. Upton, and Matt Garza this year and Ben Zobrist next year.

    • Mattingly’s Love Child

      I’m already on that bangwagon Kiersten! But with the Rays dealing Kazmir, that might mean they don’t have the requisite funds to pony up for Crawford’s option this year….

      I’m not sold on the long-term needs of having Holliday/Bay around. Sign Crawford if they can. If not, bring back Damon for a year (plus an option) and hope the extra time in AAA helps Jackson develop some more.

      • MattG

        Crawford’s option is team friendly, if not Tampa Bay friendly. That option will be exercised. If Tampa Bay can’t afford it, he’ll be traded in February.

        • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

          They trade Kazmir to afford Crawford.

          • MattG

            I think they traded Kazmir because they believe he’ll never pitch well again. As team-friendly as Crawford’s contract is, Kazmir’s (as an ace) makes him look like Alex Rios.

        • Mattingly’s Love Child

          I definitely agree. To me, Plan A has to be Crawford, knowing that it is extremely unlikely. Plan B would be Damon on a 1+1. Plan C would be Holliday (only because I don’t like the rest of the slop that is on the market this year).

      • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

        I’m fairly certain that one of the driving factors behind the Kazmir trade was to ensure the cash available to pay Crawford. You won’t see both of them gone right now.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          I still think it’s moot.

          Whether Kazmir was around or not, they were going to exercise Crawford’s option regardless.

          Probably to move him midseason next year.

          • Chris

            I think moving Kazmir allows them to pick up Crawfords option and keep him next year. Otherwise, they would have been forced to deal some payroll in the offseason (Crawford, Kazmir, or someone else).

            I don’t think the Kazmir deal changes the outlook for Crawford in TB long term.

    • Makavelli

      I don’t know about keeping it the way it is…Swisher and Damon are fine but Melky Cabrera has played above expectations (when he’s on) and when he’s not on…the real Melky Cabrera stands up…and it’s nothing to get excited about what-so-ever.

      We needed to stop the line dancing in centerfield once and for all. It’s worked as well as it could this year so far. I don’t think I want to see another year of it though.

  • MattG

    I do not expect CC, AJ, AP and JC to make all their starts again next season, so the Yankees need to improve somewhere. The OF is due for some sort of shakeup. I think Damon on a one-year deal gives the Yankees some flexibility to pursue different options out there.

    • pat

      Crazy talk. Matsui’s 13 off the books gives plenty of wiggle room. Any why is the OF due for some sort of shakeup? Damon on a 1 year deal would be the opposite of a shakeup, it would be maintaining status quo.

      • MattG

        Matsui off the books is irrelevant. Cash is not the impediment, roster space is. There are 25 spots on the roster, 5 for outfielders, 3 for starting outfielders. Bringing back Damon does not ensure the status quo. It allows them to pursue Holliday or Bay, with the plan to move Damon to 4th OF/DH duty.

        Or, my personal fave, find a real centerfielder, in which case Damon can continue to start in left.

        • Ed

          I can’t see the team pursing a centerfielder unless Austin Jackson has an umimpressive year in AAA next year.

          If Cashman gets a phone call proposing “Grady Sizemore for Melky + IPK”, sure, that changes, but in any realistic scenario, I don’t see any attempts at upgrading CF until Austin Jackson proves that he’s not going to be the next long term option there.

          • MattG

            I am fairly certain they will jump on a centerfield upgrade, should it be available, for 2010, and let the Austin Jackson thing work itself out some other way.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Who, though?

              • camilo gerard

                Bonifacio?

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  No.

            • Ed

              If they can get one in a steal, sure, but I don’t see any realistic options for that. I can’t see them paying fair value to trade for a good option until they’re sure Jackson won’t cut it.

              Free agent wise, what options are there? Mike Cameron and Rick Ankiel?

  • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

    No way the Sux don’t resign Bay. No thanx on Holliday.

    As far as Damon, I’d rather Cash trade for a Cody Ross type RF and slide Swish over to LF but bringing Damon back wouldn’t be so bad on a 1+option contract.

    • Mike Pop

      Meh, I’d rather Damon than Cody Ross. I’m all for bringing Damon back on a 1 + team option.

      I could also see Cash making another Swisher-esque trade. A buy low if you will.

      Damon can alternate between LF and DH. On a 1 year deal, sounds perfect.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Agreed. Damon is definitely my first choice.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Also, Cody Ross would not be a “buy low” type of deal. The Marlins would want more than normal for Ross because he’s having his best (full) season.

        • Mike Pop

          I was thinking something like Delmon Young.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Eh, no. He is allergic to walks (nine this year) and his power is no where to be found. His fielding is also quite crappy. I’d prefer to not see Delmon Young anywhere near the Yankees.

            • Ronald

              So you know all there is to know about Delmon Young. As he matures, learns the league, gets past his anticipatory grief due to his mothers long battle with cancer, is given steady playing time and builds his confidence he will settle in and have a great career…he has too much desire and talent to fail. But you know all there is to know about a player just by observing their stats. Variables my friend – variables!

        • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

          I said Ross-TYPE. Although Cody would be at the top of my wish list.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            I think Ross would be an okay bench option, but not a starter.

            • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

              His number say otherwise, and his D is sick.

              • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

                His defense was sick last year (18.3 UZR/150) but this year it’s way down (-6.6 UZR/150). His power is definitely very nice but his lack of on base skills at age 28 make me want to stay away. His profile is much more public this year and his trade value will likely never be higher. It’d be a good move for the seller, but probably not a great move for the buyer. I’d prefer to keep Damon w/o giving up any players.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    While I’m concerned that Jackson’s OPS has dropped by an average of 70.25 points per month (Apr-May: 71, May-Jun: 80, Jun-Jul: 96, Jul-Aug: 34), I’m less concerned about the BABIP. Yeah, it’s ridiculously high but it’s not like Jackson is doing this by dinking and dunking balls in Scranton. His overall LD% for the year 22.4% and it’s only dipped below 20% in one month (July). It would seem that Jackson’s BABIP is coming from hitting the ball very, very hard. The lack of power isn’t getting me too miffed, considering he’s a centerfielder. If Jackson was expected to be a corner OF, I’d be much more worried than I am that his power isn’t showing up yet. I’m more concerned about his K/BB that’s pushing three and his overall walk rate (7.9%).

    • Mattingly’s Love Child

      I agree with you. That’s why I’d like to see Jackson back in AAA next year. Call him up if he hits the cover off the ball and reduces the strikeouts, but make him force the issue. Don’t include him as part of the plan for next year. If he’s an unexpected surprise, awesome.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Yep. An extra year in AAA would not be the end of the world. Just ask the Pirates and Andrew McCutchen.

        • pat

          Adam Jones as well.

      • http://www.wiredtowns.com Short Porch

        What he said.

        BA OBP SLG OPS
        Pre All-Star .324 .389 .452 .840
        Post All-Star .236 .281 .299 .580

        I hope will be playing winter ball, and that Kevin Long decides to drop by.

        Beyond that, he’d better be putting up numbers at Scranton that match his 2009 Pre Allstar numbers. A few more knocks and walks would help.

        If he’s the second coming of Gary Pettis, I am more than okay with that. But with that second half line, is this really Corey Patterson? If so, trade him before everyone else figures that out.

      • Sam

        Are we sure that the Yanks see A-Jax as a center-fielder? I could have sworn I heard that they saw him as more of a left-fielder…

        • whozat

          No, they were playing him in LF to increase his versatility. If Damon hurt himself, maybe Jackson had to come up and play some LF or something, who knows.

          He was still getting most of his reps in CF. Also, they wanted to play Pena in CF sometimes to make him more versatile, but not bench Jackson.

  • Kiersten

    Also, the one problem with keeping Damon in 2011 is Jorge Posada, who will almost certainly be the DH by then. Although I would not complain about having either off the bench.

    • Chris

      Why do you assume that Posada will be a full time (or almost full time) DH in 2011? He really hasn’t shown significant decline behind the plate this year, and pretty much all of the criticism of his catching is directed at his game calling.

      It’s possible that he would need to move out from behind the plate but certainly not a given.

      • Kiersten

        He’ll be 39. It’s possible he’ll still be catching, but not likely.

        • Ed

          The odds of any random catcher lasting behind the plate until 39 are very low.

          The odds of a 37 year old catcher solidly holding down a starting job keeping his job for another 2 years are much better.

          When that 37 year old is one of the elite producers at his position, the odds go up even more.

      • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

        38 y/o catcher. Spent time on DL due to hammy, currently sitting out because of foul ball off of left hand. Keep his bat in the line-up as DH and sign a C.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Agreed.

          I think 2010 should be Jorge’s last full year at catcher.

          • MattG

            “If you don’t have a catcher, you’ll have a lot of passed balls.”

          • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

            ’09 for me. Give me Olivo & Cervelli.

            • Chris

              No thanks. I’d prefer an OBP over .300 in my catchers.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Seconded.

                I grasped at every 2010 catcher straw out there (Olivo, Bengie Molina, Schneider, Bard, Barrett, etc.) desperate to find a suitable replacement for Jorge.

                They all suck. All of them. It’s Jorge or bust for 2010.

                • Chris

                  For 2011, I would be happy with a split of Jesus and Jorge, each getting about half the playing time. It might even be worth carrying a 3rd catcher (Cervelli) for the occasional spot start and using Jorge and Jesus as DH’s frequently (and not carry a true full time DH).

        • Chris

          Everyone ages differently. Carlton Fisk was a catcher into his 40s.

          I agree that the hammy could be a sign of his age, but getting hit on the hand with a foul ball could happen to any catcher (just look at Jesus Montero).

          • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

            Which is exactly why you keep is bat in the line-up at DH and don’t risk it at C.

            • Ed

              By that logic you should never put anyone good at catcher.

              • jsbrendog

                youve unlocked the door to varitek’s career

        • Ed

          Those injuries are random common injuries that you should expect full recoveries from with no lasting issues. Hamstring injuries hit players off all ages, and in recent years the Yankees have had more bad luck with young players injuring their hamstrings (Hughes, Cano, and Wang all hit the DL for hamstring injuries. I believe Joba started ’07 with one as well)

          The shoulder injury was a legit concern, as that could have had a long lasting impact, but he’s clearly recovered fine from that.

          With an old catcher, the big concern is the knees. But Posada has shown no signs of knee issues so far. His defense is what it’s always been, and offensively he’s still right up there with the best of the non-Mauer catchers.

          You move him when he starts to decline or you have a better option behind the plate. You don’t move him just because he’s old. If you were going to do that, he should’ve been moved years ago, as he’s already long past the point of being old for his position.

        • Rod

          There is also this guy in the minors called Jesus Montero, not sure if you’ve heard of him. By 2011, the Yankees primary catching duo will likely be Montero and Cervelli with Romine or another of the 100 or so catchers the Yankees seem to have in the system.

          Montero may not stick at catcher long term but he only has to stick there until he turns 27 at which point 1B opens up.

          • Ed

            If Montero is ready, sure, you do that. But 2011 is optimistic. He’s only spent, what, 2 months above A ball so far?

            I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start 2010 in AA, then get promoted to AAA midseason. Start 2011 in AAA and make him earn a promotion.

            Also, remember what it took for Posada to get the fulltime job. He’s a much better defensive catcher than Montero, and he only had to beat out Giradi to get the job. He split time with Giradi for a few years before getting the full time job, despite Girardi being on his last legs and never being a good bat. I can’t see Montero just being handed the catcher job.

            • Rod

              The only thing that is keeping Montero in the minors now is his defense. I don’t think he needs to get rushed but he’s made the biggest transition he’s going to make short of the majors in going to AA this season. Unless he forgets how to hit a baseball, I see no reason why he isn’t with the big club in 2011.

              It took Posada that long because Joe Torre will play a marginal to scrub veteran over a stud young kid any day of the week. If Piazza and V-Mart can be major league catchers with their gloves, so can Montero.

  • http://sportssandwich.com NZ

    Most thought the Yanks were done after Burnett and Sabathia. Steinbrenner could probably find a few million in between the couch cushions.

    • MattG

      Are you calling Matsui and Nady couch cushions? There’s $21mm between them.

      • http://sportssandwich.com NZ

        Considering the players they will likely be resigning – Damon and Pettitte – there might only around $10MM remaining from Hideki’s/Nady’s contracts. If they decide to let Wang walk, which I think would be wise, they might go after one of the free agent pitchers available, as well. If I’m not mistaken, John Lackey will be available, along with strikeout-machine Rich Harden and Justin Duchscherer.

        • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

          i dont get your math–damon, pettitte, nady, matsui’s salaries all come off. then you put damon and pettitte back on…are you saying they get 11MM in raises next year? i think we’re all thinking same or maybe even a little less…

    • Rod

      The Yankees have at least $40M coming off the books next season. They should be able to tighten up a few things here and there and still have money left over.

      • MattG

        Matsui: 13
        Damon: 13
        Nady: 8
        Pettitte: 6

        Total: 40

        That’s right. That’s a lot of scratch. Are there any arb raises? CMW?

        • jsbrendog

          cmw won’t get a raise. he’ll be lucky to get to arb without being cut or nontendered.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          But Matsui, Damon, and Pettitte are all likely to return now. Between the three of them, some will go up slightly, some down, but they’re probably making roughly the same total money from 2009 to 2010.

          So, it’s really just Nady’s 6.5M (not sure where you got that 8M number from) and Molina’s 2M.

          • Ed

            Everyone kept saying if Nady went to arbitration, he’d probably earn about $8m. That’s probably where it came from.

          • http://www.teamnerdrage.com leokitty

            Andy is actually on pace to hit most of his incentives, I think, so he’s making a lot more than $6million anyway.

            I think everyone will get similar contracts with incentives next year. I would really really love for them to bring back Matsui as a part time DH but I don’t know if it will happen.

        • Ed

          Wang, Melky, Gaudin, and Bruney are arbitration eligible.

          And in contracts that bought out arb years, Cano goes up $3m and Swisher goes up $1.4m.

        • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

          …dont we have other money coming off? arent we still paying giambi something too?

          what about guys not on the 25? juan miranda for example–how much is he making, and is he coming back? there have to be a few more sitting on the 40 that dont come back…

          damn 40 man limit…

  • GG

    Def bring Damon back on a 1 year. I really want Godzilla back on a 1 yr in addition to Damon. Not only has he been a huge contributer this year, but leaving the DH spot open for a rotation of vets, would make the team much weaker, you need Matsui to put together your “a- lineup”…..what does each one cost??? Both want to be back

    • MattG

      Oooo, no. That’s going a little too far. Matsui has put together a wonderful season, but this is his swan song.

      Unless he’ll play for half of what Abreu got. I mean, if he’ll take a big enough pay cut, at some point you would bring him back.

    • http://twitter.com/Hopjake Jake H

      I would rather offer Nady a contract or arbitration then Matsui.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Yeah… no.

        I get where everyone is coming from on the “No to Matsui, he’s old and can’t play the field”. I agree with it, which is why I initially was anti-HazMat.

        But he’s shown he still has a great bat. Having him back on a one-year deal would be okay.

        Nady, however, is a gigantic red flag. He actually makes Hideki look like a pillar of health.

        Don’t touch position players with multiple TJS. Both Nady and Matsui figure to be DH-only players in 2010, and Matsui will outproduce Nady by leaps and bounds.

        • Chris

          Don’t touch position players with multiple TJS.

          Based on what? From what I’ve read, the success rate for a second TJ surgery is the same as for a first (not 100%, but still pretty good).

          Nady projects as a type-B free agent. I have no problem offering him arbitration.

          • Ed

            Based on what? From what I’ve read, the success rate for a second TJ surgery is the same as for a first (not 100%, but still pretty good).

            The success rate or a second TJ is terrible. It’s around 90% for a first but 20% for a second. source

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Well, that depends. If you let Matsui walk, you could sign someone else (Benjie Molina?) who can provide decent offense and you can have Posada DH. His bat can definitely play there.

      • MattG

        Did you just put a Molina in the same sentence with “decent offense?”

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          His OBP skills are shit (which I don’t like at all) but he’s flashed decent power since being in SF, .439 SLG, and he’d be a decent stop gap. TSJC put me on to this and it kind of makes sense.

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            TSJC put me on to this and it kind of makes sense.

            For the record, I put you on to it back in mid-May when Bengie was hot out of the gate and hitting .299/.308/.559.

            Since May 15th, Bengie has put up a .246/.271/.386. He turned back into a pumpkin, and I ditched the Bengie to the Yanks idea LONG ago.

            • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

              Thanks for making me look like an ass!

              In light of recent events:

              I retract my Bengie idea.

      • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

        I was thinking more Olivo. He’s not as craptastic (or prolly expensive) as Bengie, is younger, and plays solid D. With Cervelli backing-up and Jorge able to be in the line-up everyday I think they’d be quite fine.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          The next time Miguel Olivo puts up an OBP north of .290 will be the first time.

          Pass. He’s even MORE craptastic than Bengie is.

  • http://twitter.com/Hopjake Jake H

    On ESPN this morning they said that Tampa will pick up C.C’s option and trade him. They are very worried about money down there. FL has been hit hard with this recession.

    I would offer Damon a 1+1 (option being mutual)

    • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

      ESPN also says the Yankees have yet to define if Joba’s a starter or reliever. Take what they say with a mouthfull of salt.

      • http://twitter.com/Hopjake Jake H

        I did. This was from a reporter not one of their “experts”

      • whozat

        I don’t want anything relating to John Kruk to be even tangentially associated with my mouth.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Kruk ranted this morning about how the Yankees have wasted three years of Joba’s development, as a starter, by putting him in the pen.

          You know, the same thing he’s been calling on the Yankees to do for the past three years.

          YOU STUPID YANKEES, DOING WHAT I TOLD YOU TO DO, YOU SCREWED UP!!!

          • whozat

            Can we get a daily-show-style montage of Kruk contradicting himself?

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Yeah he also said “Look at what King Felix has done in Seattle.”

        • Kiersten

          My not-really friend who is a ChiSox fan told me how much he loves John Kruk on Saturday. He also thinks Jake Peavy is carrying them to the playoffs.
          Like I said, my not-really friend.

    • whozat

      That’s kind of what we were thinking would happen anyway with Tampa and Crawford, before they traded Kazmir. I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if it still happened.

      I don’t think the Yanks would be willing to give them what they’d want to make the deal, though. Tampa’s good enough, if things break right, to compete in the division the next few years…why would they set the Yanks up in LF for the next five by trading us Crawford, unless we set them up at multiple positions somehow, by trading them, like…Hughes, Montero and Melancon.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Neither the Yankees, nor the Rays, want to trade with each other.

        There will be no Crawford to NYC deal. He comes here as a free agent or not at all.

        • whozat

          exactly.

        • Chris

          Neither the Yankees, nor the Rays, want to trade with each other.

          In this case, it probably makes sense because both the Rays and Yankees are trying to compete next year, but in most cases this aversion to trade in your division is stupid.

          If you’re the Jays trading Halladay, wouldn’t you want to remove some of the top prospects from a division rival so they’re weaker in 3-5 years when you’re ready to compete again? The Jays have no chance to compete in the next couple years (which is why they would trade Halladay), so they need to rebuild for when they can compete again. I understand it’s tough to watch someone you traded away come in a beat you for the next couple years, but you have to take the emotion out of the deal and consider the baseball implications.

          Any time you make a deal based on emotions you’re not making the best possible deal.

          /rant

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            No, it’s not.

            Bad teams should trade their chips wherever they can get the best deal, because they need the talent.

            Good teams should not trade intradivision with other good teams, because you’re strengthening your direct competition.

            Not smart. Any advantage we gain by adding Crawford is nullified by the advantage we give to Crawford in young players + salary relief.

            • whozat

              I think you guys are agreeing.

              “in most cases” bad teams should trade their chips wherever they can get the best deal; it’s relatively rare that a good team is looking to trade a good player, which is the case we have here, which Chris was willing to grant you.

              • Chris

                It does appear we agree, but it’s much more fun to argue about it.

                Crawford would be one of the few exceptions where it makes sense to ask for a premium or not trade within your division. Cases like Halladay or Victor Martinez/Cliff Lee/Sabathia or Holliday are not the exception.

            • toad

              Good teams should not trade intradivision with other good teams, because you’re strengthening your direct competition.

              Well, sort of, but it’s not a slam-dunk. Remember, the other team still has players it wants to trade. Just because you won’t deal with them dioesn’t mean no one will. So you both trade outside the division, and maybe you are worse off relative to your rival than you would have been had you just traded with them.

              Of course you make it harder for them, by reducing the market, but you do that for yourself also.

              I suspect a lot of the reluctance is really psychological. If the guy you traded ends up a star for the other team it looks even dumber if you’re in the same division.

      • MattG

        How could they set the Yankees up for five years when Crawford has only one year left on his contract?

        • whozat

          Because the Yankees would extend Crawford. I can’t imagine them even thinking about making the hypothetical deal without an extension.

          • MattG

            They can sign Crawford when his contract expires, and there’s not a thing TB can do about it. They are not giving the Yankees 5 years of Crawford. They would be giving them one.

            • whozat

              you’re arguing about a hypothetical extension to a hypothetical scenario. I can’t imagine anything more pointless.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                you’re arguing about a hypothetical extension to a hypothetical scenario. I can’t imagine anything more pointless.

                Tea party tax protests?

                • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

                  people in their 80’s on welfare and medicaid blathering about death panels?

              • MattG

                I am arguing logic that decries five years of service being traded to the Yankees. That is simply false. It is one year. Tampa currently has no control over where Crawford plays in 2011, and trading him to Arizona makes it no less likely that he is a Yankee that season.

  • MattG

    Q: Wouldn’t Carl Crawford play centerfield here? In which case you would still try to retain Damon, and trade off Melky?

    • http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno (The Manchine)

      He hates playing CF plus has a Damon-esque arm.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Frankly. AJax, Gardner, and Melky are all way better CF defenders than Crawford is.

        Crawford is a plus in LF, but meh in CF.

  • Makavelli

    If we sign Damon for cheap for LF…can’t we poke around for a better CF option? We’ll have some money opening up from Damon and/or Matsui.

    Personally, I want Matsui back as well. I don’t see the problem with bringing him back and doing the same exact thing we’re doing now. If one of the veterans need a half-day off to DH? Do it and sit Matsui. What’s the difference? Matsui and Damon back on the cheap is a great idea. Then we can tinker with CF as the off-season goes on. Perhaps trade for Crawford? Ajax and a few other guys for him? We’d still have Heathcott down there in the wings for some point.

    • whozat

      Heathcott is probably five years away, if he ever makes it.

      THe issue with Matsui is that he’s a time bomb. Sign Damon for DH/LF and see what Cameron will cost on a one-year deal. His D is great, he can play all over the OF, and he can slot in every day when/if Melky and Gardner aren’t getting it done.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        I’d rather Cameron start over either one of those guys. I was hoping that the Yankees would’ve put a claim in on Cameron and then worked a one year extension during the offseason.

        • Makavelli

          Why haven’t the Yankees put a claim on anybody? And what’s the progress with Penny? Does Penny want to go to the NL like Smoltz after seeing him succeed? Or does he want to help the best team in baseball win a World Series?
          Cameron is available and so is Penny and we just seem to be standing around with our arms folded for whatever reason.

          • whozat

            First of all, you’re assuming that just because YOU didn’t hear about something means it didn’t happen. All waiver claims do not get reported in the media, especially if the waiving team pulls a guy back and nothing goes anywhere. You do that a lot…project the stupidest possible reasoning onto your target, and then get all mad about it.

            Second, for NL players, the Yanks are literally the LAST team who gets a shot.

            Third, by claiming a guy, you put yourself at risk for having to pay all of his contract. If he gets released, you can get him for the minimum. I wouldn’t take Penny if I had to pay his remaining contract. I might if he only costs a hundred grand.

            • Makavelli

              Why are you angry? There’s no need to be angry. Tomorrow’s another day. The sun will shine again. Whatever it is that’s bothering you so much will end. Don’t worry about it. Everything will be alright. No need to take out everything on a post on a message board.

              That being said. I didn’t assume anything. I asked a question. I never said “the Yankees haven’t put a claim on anybody.” And it wasn’t even meant to be literal. They HAVE put claims on people…there was a whole post on it. It wasn’t meant to be taken as literal as you angrily thought.

              I asked a bunch of questions. You saw 1 thing taken out of context that you knew you could jump on…and you did so with anger.

              Go smoke some pot and take the edge off.

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                I guess irony can be pretty ironic sometimes…

                • Makavelli

                  LOL. I knew you would like the last line, TSJC.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  It wasn’t just the last line, it was all of it.

                • Makavelli

                  Thanks for clearing that up. I was really wondering if that were the case…

              • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Makavelli says:
                August 31st, 2009 at 1:08 pm

                That being said. I didn’t assume anything. I asked a question. I never said “the Yankees haven’t put a claim on anybody.”

                —————

                Makavelli says:
                August 31st, 2009 at 12:47 pm

                Why haven’t the Yankees put a claim on anybody?

                Umm…

                • Makavelli

                  It was a question…and I explained what I actually meant there-after. It wasn’t a statement.

                  Asking a question isn’t the same as proclaiming a statement.

                  If I ask you “why haven’t you tried this soup yet, it’s really good.” If you have? Your answer would probably be “Oh I have tried this soup…it is very good.” There probably wouldn’t be a lot of anger involved.

                  If I stated “You haven’t tried this soup!” And you actually did try the soup? THEN I could understand the anger being involved.

                  It’s not exactly the same thing.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Yeah… no.

                  It’s not a question asking “Have the Yankees put a claim in on anyone?”

                  It was a question asking “The Yankees HAVE NOT put a claim in on anyone… why is that?”

                  Your attempts to spin that are feeble at best and a blatant lie at worst.

                • Makavelli

                  I love how you’re telling me how I intended one of my posts to be like. I explain what I meant. Then you say “NO, that’s not what you meant” You then accuse me of “spinning” it…but then spin your own by saying I really meant “The Yankees HAVE NOT put a claim in on anyone… why is that?” instead of what I explained I meant.

                  I thought you were going to end this stuff? I explained what I meant. You can pretend to not believe me for whatever reason…but this back and forth nonsense with what you trying to convince everyone with what I meant isn’t really necessary.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  I just want to say that I’ve been reading these exchanges with growing fascination.

                  As an objective monitor, TSJC wins this debate by a landslide.

                • Makavelli

                  What a shocker.

                  And for the record and as my own person. I don’t care one bit.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  I thought you were going to end this stuff?

                  I thought YOU were going to end this stuff.

                  Look, you said something and got called out on it. Just admit it and move on, or ignore it and move on. But don’t try to spin shit like we didn’t understand what you said at first. It was crystal clear what you said, we all read it.

                  Spin less, and people will pick apart your words less. Simple as that. Try to avoid making blatantly contradictory statements within 15 minutes of each other, and people won’t accuse you of making contradictory statements.

                  Don’t insult our intelligence. We all read what you wrote.

                • Makavelli

                  RRR,

                  I guess it’s good to know that my explanations of what I said aren’t as good as what TSJC has wildly claimed what I meant.

                  One could only hope you’re never on jury duty when they’re on trial…

                • Makavelli

                  TSJC,

                  YOU think I spun it. I know I didn’t. I explained it perfectly in the soup analogy that you chose to ignore.

                  You get very upset and love to argue semantics. I know what I meant, I explained it. All hell broke loose. That’s basically the timeline here.

                  It’s over with. You’ll probably need to get the last word here but hopefully that’s not the case.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  One could only hope you’re never on jury duty when they’re on trial…

                  Ironically (again), a good jurist would give less weight your “explanations of what you said” and more weight to what you actually said.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  It’s okay. What I say really means absolutely nothing. I’m just enjoying the show.

                  I have no personal stake in this whatsoever, I’m just noting that TSJC is making you look really stupid.

                  Personal observation.

                • Makavelli

                  Not with a good explanation, like I had.

                  If I was on trial for theft and somebody was up there and said “well I once heard him say that ‘this 2 for 1 bin is a steal!'” So he must be guilty because that’s what he said once.

                  Anyway, we’re going back and forth again. You have no idea who I am and what I use or how I write and most of all…what I mean by what I write. You have “an idea” and apparently that’s better than my own explanation.

                  Other people can chime in because I’m not that well liked on here…I don’t expect anybody to agree with me. You’ve been on here for years and everybody loves you and that’s great. But it doesn’t mean you’re always right.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  How this whole thing should have gone:

                  Makavelli says:

                  Why haven’t the Yankees put a claim on anybody? And what’s the progress with Penny? Does Penny want to go to the NL like Smoltz after seeing him succeed? Or does he want to help the best team in baseball win a World Series?
                  Cameron is available and so is Penny and we just seem to be standing around with our arms folded for whatever reason.

                  whozat says:

                  First of all, you’re assuming that just because YOU didn’t hear about something means it didn’t happen. All waiver claims do not get reported in the media, especially if the waiving team pulls a guy back and nothing goes anywhere. You do that a lot…project the stupidest possible reasoning onto your target, and then get all mad about it.

                  Theoretical Makavelli says:

                  You know what, you’re right. My statement was too broad a generalization. The Yankees are probably making claims on people and looking under rocks for ways to improve the team and didn’t find anything to their liking. Whatevs. Let’s move on.

                • Makavelli

                  Nah. I’d never say that because I didn’t mean what he thought I meant.

                  Like I said before. People don’t like me on here so it’s easy for everyone to get their panties in a bunch with insignificant misunderstandings.

                  Whatever. Not a big deal. I’ll just keep explaining myself anyway. I don’t care if everyone has their “TSJC is my homeboy” shirt on. Doesn’t matter to me haha

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  For the record, my comments have nothing to do with a personal like or dislike of the posters invloved.

                • Makavelli

                  I believe you.

                  For the record. I’m Batman.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  You don’t have to believe me, I just felt compelled to like that.

                  I came here at the end of July. So I haven’t been here too much longer than you, if at all.

                • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

                  Sorry…scratch the word “like” and replace with “say”.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  All I’m saying is this, dude:

                  You’ll have to explain what you mean less frequently if you say what you mean directly initially.

                  If you didn’t mean to say “Why haven’t the Yankees put a claim on anybody?” but instead meant to say something else, then, just say what you meant to say initially, or when someone gets confused and responds to something incorrectly, clarify your comments without being disingenuous or implying that we’re taking your comments out of context when there was no context involved.

                  But don’t say something and they say, in the very next post, mind you, that you “never said that”. And that’s the key point, here: You didn’t say “That’s not what I meant” which is a fine and reasonable statement, you said “that’s not what I said”. But it was what you said.

                • Makavelli

                  Well if I’m to offer any advice. Keep a Dictionary, Thesaurus, and an Encyclopedia by your side or opened on your computer. Also, if you talk a certain way and mean something since you’re used to slang/abreviations/your own meanings, etc. Regardless of thinking this is only a message board for Yankees fans… Expect people to jump on them and your two options are a.) explain yourself and get into a long neverending argument with people who will refuse to believe you no matter what or b.) just let everybody think what you’re saying is wrong anyway. Either way, nothing gets accomplished. I just get a personal satisfaction of explaining myself though. If they choose to believe their conjured up version based on my reputation, that’s still fine. So in short. It may be a baseball message board…but treat it like a thesis paper for college.

                • Makavelli

                  TSJC,

                  You’re right…I should have put it all together right away. Unfortunately, I write quickly and fast because I’m also working at the same time and can’t always think everything through 100% before I submit. BHut you’re absolutely right. I can easily avoid this…but I didn’t. And there is no “erase” or “edit” so I tried to explain it instead.

                  Again, I apologize. I just never thought it would be that big of a deal. That’s all.

                • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Thanks.

                • Makavelli

                  Just bear with me. No “edit” or “delete” option accompanied with posting while working = boatload of mistakes. I tried explaining what I meant. Oh well. Just try to understand that in the future…avoiding any and all sarcastic responses to them lol

                • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

                  i just want to weigh in with TJSC:

                  Don’t insult our intelligence. We all read what you wrote.

                  don’t insult MY intelligence…i didnt read shit he wrote…

              • whozat

                “and you did so with anger.”

                The only reason to read my post as though it were angry would be if you’re looking to incite people so that you can feel like everyone’s attacking you, which you’ve done before as well.

                Try reading what I had to say in a calm, reasonable tone of voice. That’s how I wrote it.

                • Makavelli

                  Capitalizing and stressing “YOU” isn’t exactly calm. But whatever.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Well, maybe they feel that the Brew Crew would want too much for Cameron. As for Penny, I think that interest was nothing more than lukewarm. It’s highly doubtful that his fortunes would change with the Yanks.

          • Ed

            Why haven’t the Yankees put a claim on anybody?

            The waiver process is supposed to be confidential. The team gets fined if the commissioner’s office can prove who leaked information. You only hear about a very small fraction of the overall waiver activity.

            Second, claim priority is based off record. When a player gets put on waivers, every team in the same league gets a crack at him, in reverse order of record. Then the other league gets a crack, again in reverse order of record.

            If an NL player gets waived, the Yankees get last crack at him. If an AL player gets waived, the Yankees get 13th priority on the claim.

            • Makavelli

              Yeah. I kind of used the wrong terminology there…I was just writing fast and wrote everything in a blur. For that I apologize. Cameron cleared waivers anyway and Penny was outright released. So neither would need “claims” persay anyway right?

              • Ed

                Right. The Brewers have stated that they don’t want to sell off veterans though, so they’re probably only trading Cameron if a team overpays. I think they feel that the negative reaction from the fanbase would have more impact than the players they could realistically get from selling off players at this point.

                Penny, well… The extent of his appeal is “well, maybe he’s better than Mitre.” But Mitre just pitched a great game, and the last time Penny pitched, the Yankees destroyed him. It’s got to be a tough sell to convince the team to sign him.

            • Chris

              The waiver process is supposed to be confidential.

              Why is that? What’s the harm with people hearing about it?

    • MattG

      Jackson, for one year of Crawford (and his salary), would be a tough pill to swallow. What’s tougher is they would want even more.

      However, a Damon-Crawford-Swisher OF would be the bee’s knees.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      If we sign Damon for cheap for LF…can’t we poke around for a better CF option? We’ll have some money opening up from Damon and/or Matsui.

      Love to, but no good options.

      Peruse for yourself:
      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ree-a.html

    • chriskeo

      Depending on Heathcott for anything at this point is a bad idea, not saying he will bust but he is about a month removed from signing pro. Meanwhile Austin Jackson is putting up good enough numbers in AAA to be considered for the CF in the Bronx. I am not saying don’t trade Jackson for the right deal, just that they can’t depend on Heathcott.

      • Makavelli

        But as shown before. AJax predicted numbers (above), due to his 118 K’s and only 4 HR all year in AAA, seems to be incredibly bad. And as was stated, makes Melky Cabrera look like an All Star.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          No, A-Jax’s MLE numbers make Melky look like an All-star; A-Jax is definitely not ready but you’re missing something there. As I said, I don’t mind the lack of power because of his position, but I do mind the lack of walks (K/BB is pushing three) compared to the abundance of strikeouts.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        Meanwhile Austin Jackson is putting up good enough numbers in AAA to be considered for the CF in the Bronx

        This is not something we should be saying. He’s definitely not ready for the Majors yet. His OPS has dropped each month (an average of 70.25 pts. every month) and he’s striking out way too much without walking enough. Jackson should at least start 2010 in AAA.

  • JA

    CARL CRAWFORD ANYONE?? He should be the yankees LF next year.

    • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

      …If the Rays don’t sign him.

      I’d stil resign Damon and make him DH.

    • yankeegirl49

      Gee…can’t believe no one else thought of that :-)

    • Kiersten

      You’re the first to bring that up. Nice job.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Homer: There’s three ways to do things: The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way.
        Bart: Isn’t the Max Power way just the wrong way?
        Homer: Yeah, but FASTER!

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Who?

    • Tampa Yankee

      Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention. I’ve just been handed an urgent and horrifying news story. I need all of you, to stop what you’re doing and listen. Cannonball!

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Unique, New York. Unique, New York.

        • Tampa Yankee

          Champ Kind: We need you. Hell, I need you. I’m a mess without you. I miss you so damn much. I miss being with you, I miss being near you. I miss your laugh. I miss your scent; I miss your musk. When this all gets sorted out, I think you and me should get an apartment together.

          Brian Fantana: Take it easy, Champ. Why don’t you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while.

        • jsbrendog

          the arsonist has oddly shaped feet.

          funny, i was actually sitting at my desk messing around and saying this and no one got it. losers.

          • Tampa Yankee

            The human torch was denied a bank loan

  • Drew

    I think most of us would love Damon on a one year deal. I’m really not sure though if he would accept it though. Would you rather throw 10 mil at him for one year or 2 years at 15ish mil, maybe with some incentives in there such as 20+ hrs or 100 runs.

    I think I’d be happy with the latter. Who knows what the market will be though.

    • Drew

      *I’m not sure if he’d accept it though.

    • yankeegirl49

      I am pretty sure its against bargaining rules to have production based incentives.

      • Drew

        Really? Whoops. I was thinking of Alex’s deal but I guess those are more milestones than stats. My bad.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Yup.

          We could do plate appearances or games played incentives or jazz like that. No stat totals, though.

        • Ed

          Yeah, Alex’s incentives are based on historical milestones. And he has to participate in marketing promotions to get them. Signing merchandise, appear in ads, etc. He has to do things that provide significant value to the team.

  • Tank Foster

    Mixed feelings. You never know when an aging player is going to hit the wall. He’s really, really good, so it seems like a no brainer. But if he stinks next year – which sometimes happens…

    Obviously, 1 year with a team option seems safe. But I’d be wary of bringing back both Damon and Matsui. The main reason I worry about it is that both Jorgie and ARod have issues. We presume ARod gets off-season surgery and comes back fine, but that’s not a guarantee…he may need to DH some next year. Same with Posada; at the least, Posada should be doing some DHing next year.

    In all likelihood, though, as much as I’d like to see young players in there producing, the chances of upgrading on Damon OR Matsui aren’t great, so the reality is both may end up coming back. And there’ll be another DH logjam. But lots of runs, too.

  • mryankee

    Ilike an outfield of Crawford-Gardner-Holliday-I always go for an upgarde. I think its time Melky was sent packing and good riddance.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Crawford AND Holliday?

      Easy, killer.

      • mryankee

        Holliday is free agent and Crawford is a trade-I say of Joba does not pull a Tim Lincecum and fast you start whispering that he might be part of a deal for an outfielder. I know this won’t happen and this is a kind of rambling response but the more I see Joba pitch the more aggravated I get-I hate seeing taleneted people not use their talent.

  • themgmt

    The Yankees have the 4th worse throwing OF in baseball according to fangraphs. The outfield defense needs work. Holliday or Crawford would help with the range. Or they could trade for a RF and put Swisher in LF. I make Damon the DH next year.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      But they have the 6th best range of any AL team. The range is much more important than the arms. If he would accept a shorter term deal (unlikely), I’d like to bring Holliday in for LF, re-sign Damon for DH for a year and have Jorge catch.

      • themgmt

        They are 15th in OF range, not 6th. But I agree, move Damon to DH and sign Holliday or trade for a RF.

        • JobaWockeeZ

          I’m going on a hunch here but 6th best in the AL 15th best overall.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          I said AL, not ML. Trading for a RF is not really necessary, though.

          • themgmt

            Yeah 15th (ML) in range, 26th (ML) in throwing. That makes them solidly below average in the outfield. They should let Damon DH and get another OF.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      The Yankees have the 4th worse throwing OF in baseball according to fangraphs.

      Okay. That’s not good, but since OF range >>>>>>>> OF arm, it’s far from the worst thing in the world.

      The outfield defense needs work.

      No, not really. Damon could use an upgrade, but he’s not an Abreu-level traveshamockery, so he’d be okay in LF for another year.

      Holliday or Crawford would help with the range.

      With the ARM. Not the range. Range is not a problem for us at the moment.

      Or they could trade for a RF and put Swisher in LF. I make Damon the DH next year.

      But the problem is, there’s no RF or LF upgrade to push Damon out of the field that makes sense. The only two guys who COULD be upgrades over Damon are Bay and Holliday, and they both cost way more than they’re worth.

      • themgmt

        Damon is solidly in the negatives range wise (this year) and Holliday and Crawford have been two of the best LF’s in UZR over the years. That’s a big difference.

        Holliday will cost more than he’s worth? I figure he’s going to cost less than we would any other off season.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Holliday will cost more than he’s worth?

          Yes.

          I figure he’s going to cost less than we would any other off season.

          Those two statements are not mutually exclusive. Holliday may be cheaper this offseason than he would be any other, and still cost more than he’s worth.

          • themgmt

            I don’t see how you figure that he’d be more than he’s worth. He racks up the WAR every year.

            He may cost more than you’d personally want to pay him, but in comparison to the rest of the market, it be hard to pay him more than he’s worth.

            • Tom Zig

              At least you are using statistical measures.

          • Omar

            I agree with this statement, but I still think that the Yankees should try and sign him for the right amount of years, as this 2008 offseason has shown, the Yankees are willing to spend lots of money on very good to elite players. Even though Holliday had a rough April in Oakland, I still think he is in the category of “very good.” Yes the Yankees didn’t want to fork out the dough for Jarrod Washburn, but he is…well…Jarrod Washburn, he’s not worth overpaying for.

        • JobaWockeeZ

          But with him doing great on the Cards and being a Boras agent, they will ask for a lot. A lot, a lot.

  • themgmt

    Holliday/Crawford – Gardner – Swisher = great range, bad throws

    Swisher – Gardner – Nelson Cruz = great range, good throws

    Make it happen Cashman.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Wow.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      No.

    • Tom Zig

      How about

      Sizemore – Upton – Upton – Great range, great throws

      4th OF- Carlos Beltran
      5th OF- Ichiro

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        I like it. Let’s trade for Josh Hamilton and Curtis Granderson too, though. Never can have enough depth.

        • Omar

          Would that count as “Legendary Depth”?

          • Tampa Yankee

            Not yet. Only when won builds the kind of depth the Red Sox built with in their rotation to begin the year then add Paul Byrd mid-season can one have “Legendary Depth”.

      • themgmt

        Yeah, because trading for an entire outfield of young stars is tantamount to signing a FA or making 1 trade for a 29 year OF just showing promise.

    • Tampa Yankee

      I say the Yanks trade Melky and Gardner to the Rays for Crawford and Upton. THEN trade Igawa and Ajax to the D’backs for the other Upton and we got Crawford-Upton-Upton w/ Swish on the bench. Then we can afford to move IPK and Brackman for Lincecum or King Felix!

      BOOM! THAT JUST HAPPENED! RINGS FOR YEARS TO COME!

      DO IT CASH OR YOU ARE TEH SUXOR!!1!!11!ONE!

  • themgmt

    Cruz is a beast in the field and has a good arm. Swisher would be an above average left fielder and his arm plays better on that side.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      A) Nelson Cruz is not a free agent, and just like Carl Crawford, we’re not making a trade for an outfielder under contract just for a marginal upgrade over Johnny Damon. Moot.
      B) Please use the reply button. It keeps the conversations clean. Thanks in advance.

      • Tom Zig

        Nolan Ryan would laugh, call Cashman a sissy-girl and then hang up the phone. Then proceed to have his pitchers throw 300 pitch bullpen sessions.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          The pitchers are only Phase 1.

          Next season, Nolan’s gonna toughen up the position players too. Midnight batting practice, three hours every night.

        • jsbrendog

          tcwa

          (this comment was awesome)

          (i tire of ietc)

      • themgmt

        I know he’s not a FA, and neither is Crawford though he could be. A few posts up I said to make a trade for a RF. He’s just an example, I wished they traded for Cruz last off season.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      In a vacuum, yeah, sure trade for Nelson Cruz. In MLB ’10, yea, sure, trade for Nelson Cruz. In the real world? No. First off, I doubt he’s available. Second, his price will never be higher than it is right now and the Rangers would most likely ask for a lot in return. It’s not going to happen.

      • Tom Zig

        All you have to do is turn off the “fair trades” option and bam, he is ours. All we had to give up was our 3rd string first baseman from Low-A

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          In the ’10 season of MLB ’09, I traded Phil Hughes for Cole Hamels, then traded Hamels for Lincecum. Me > Cashman.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            Note: they weren’t straight up deals and required other things to make it happen. Why haven’t they developed three way trades yet?

          • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

            Yeah well I have a video game from back in 2003 and I managed to trade a crappy relief pitcher and a couple backup position players for Roy Oswalt.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Cruz still has another year before he even hits arbitration.

        The idea that he’d be available at all is LUDACRIS.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBMpaFiX7bw (safe)

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD
        • themgmt

          Cruz was left avaialbe in the Rule V draft a couple seasons ago and was VERY available this past off season. The Rays almost got him for Edwin Jackson (before his breakout) but opted for Matt Joyce. Rangers wanted (and I assume still want) Hamilton to play RF. They’ll probably plug Cruz in LF going forward if they don’t believe in Murphy, Borbon, Moreland etc and would be harder to get.

          • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

            WAS available. He WAS available. He has since put up a 129 OPS+ and will reach 30 HR. Nelson Cruz will be available in the offseason, as everyone is, but the price will be way, way too high.

          • themgmt

            Actually he might have been DFA’d, not sure if he was Rule V eligible but I’m not looking it up right now.

            Anyway, it’s your opinion that’s he’s unavailable. He wouldn’t be the first such player traded. You’d only have to look to their CF for an example.

  • Joba or Hughes to the pen

    Keep Jackson in AAA.We get to happy and hype our farm system too much.In 2007 Austin Jackson was consider a major outfield star in the minors.Now he’s average.

    How many times have you heard that from Yankees prospects.There average.Like Joba,Hughes and Kennedy.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Yup you have to be the guy that voted “1” on the poll…

    • Tampa Yankee

      1. PLEASE use some sort of punctuation.
      2. I believe you mean “They are average” not “There average”.
      3. WTF are you talking about?

      • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster)

        I think he’s tryng to say that we overhype our prospects, which ormally don’t pan out, and then used Hughes (got injured and is making significant contributions, and is 23), Joba (made significant contributions last year and the year before, is a major part of the team this year, and while struggling is in fact 23 years old), and Kennedy (injuries, can still contribute) as highly flawed examples of his arguement.

        Got all that?

    • Tom Zig

      So you want us to do what, exactly?

      …………………

  • camilo gerard

    def see what Holiday would want.. I think it was mcCarver on fox wondering aloud (while 2 other teams were playing..) whether Holiday would accept a HT Discount to remain in STL… Does he know who represents him?

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Scott Boras.

  • Sam

    Is BJ Upton a possible buy-low opportunity or is it WAY early to even be talking about that?

    • camilo gerard

      ask their vp

  • Pingback: Damon and Yankees Clicking for Next Year | Bronx Baseball Daily

  • Joseph M

    This is probably going to go round and round several more times over the next few months. Damon and Matsui are basically the same player, good left handed hitters who play left field and can’t field. Damon appears to be the more complete player at this time, keep himm give him him two years and hope for the best.

    Austin Jackson is starting to take on Eric Duncan characteristics. I wouldn’t count on him to be any more than just another player.

    • Omar

      Jackson strikes out far too often. He’s still a little young for AAA, but still he’s been Ransomian

  • Omar

    I have zero confidence in Austin Jackson, Melky Cabrera, or Brett Gardner becoming a legitimate center fielder. As of right now I think the best option would be to stick with Gardner and Cabrera as a quasi-platoon, and hope that Austin Jackson has trade value. This season they’ve gotten great contributions from just about everyone in the line up. They’ll have to replace Matsui and Damon’s production somehow. I’m hoping that they sign Holliday to play LF and bring Damon back as the DH for a year or two. A line up that goes:

    Jeter
    Holliday
    Teixeira
    Rodriguez
    Damon
    Posada
    Cano
    Swisher
    Gardner/Cabrera

    would be fun. But it’s far too early to think about next season now, MOAR BITCHING ABOUT CHAMBERLAIN NAO!!!111!!

    ;)

    • Tom Zig

      Or we could just trot out the same lineup next year as the one we have this year. It would be cheaper too.

      • themgmt

        And older, and slower, and more injury prone.

  • Rob in CT

    I’m fine with bringing Damon bafck for 1 year, maybe even 2 (option?). Matsui I think you have to let walk. I’d like Holliday, but goodness knows what it would take to sign him. No to Bay, who is apparently a very poor defender.

    Crawford’s OBP scares me. I think this year may very well be an outlier. I like the D and the baserunning, but will he retain those as he ages?