Dec
22
Damon, Bay, Holliday still too expensive for Yanks
ByWith the trade of Melky Cabrera this morning, the Yanks are short a Major League outfielder. Although many assumed that Melky would be the starting left fielder with Johnny Damon‘s departure, the Yankees seemed willing to go into Spring Training with the position up for grabs. Now, though, it falls into Brett Gardner‘s lap. As some clamor for a better solution for left field, the Yanks are standing pat for now. The Yanks would reportedly prefer to spend around $5-$6 on a left fielder, and according to Mark Feinsand and Joel Sherman, the price tags on Johnny Damon, Matt Holliday and Jason Bay remain too steep for the Bombers. As Joe wrote last night, if the price is right on Mark DeRosa, he could be a good fit.
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Someone please explain how the hell did we just give up one of our best young arms in Vizcaino, and melky/dunn. You don’t give up an arm like Vizcaino for one year of Vazquez even if you get picks. The kid has front of the line potential. That’s the one area the yanks should never trade away. Terrible move!
Viz is definitely the worst part of this deal and what makes me hesitant to be happy about it. if it had been Nova or even Z-Mac i would be much happier.
He was 18 pitching at short-season A. He’s so far away from the Bigs, and that’s just a chance you take with very young prospects. Being upset about Arodys Vizcaino is hardly worth it. You can’t stockpile young players and be afraid to trade them for fear of what their ceilings might be.
Anyway, considering that this post is about left fielders, please review the commenting guidelines, and keep your comments on topic. There are plenty of posts about this trade and ways to ask us off-topic question.
You shouldn’t entertain them by responding to there comments then. Your contributing to the problem.
Completely disagree. I have no problem with what Ben did.
Trying to get in good graces with the big wigs huh? Really it doesn’t matter what you or I feel, it’s their blog. I just meant that maybe he should of just threw out the commenting guidelines, instead of expanding on the discussion about Vizcaino. People could see BK commenting on it and may feel its ok to add to the conversation.
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m doing. Maybe now RAB will give me a gold star.
I just meant that maybe he should of just threw out the commenting guidelines, instead of expanding on the discussion about Vizcaino.
This part of your comment makes sense. I probably would have agreed if I thought this was what you were trying to say.
How would new posters know they were doing wrong if the RABbis did not so comment?
I was referring to expanding on the discussion of Vizcaino.
Thank you totally agree.
my apologies. I’ll keep posts in proper place.
I understand he’s 18 and you never know what you’ll get from a kid that young, but everyone in the organization was saying that he’s as impressive as anyone we have. The yanks can get good players in a variety of ways, but guys with super high ceilings are much more difficult, especially starting pitchers. Vizcaino is a guy you simply do not trade for an innings eater with a 4+ ERA for one year. With that, I’ll let this sleep.
It wouldn’t of matter what young prospects the Yankees trade somehow they would of been ultra important with a fantastic future like all Yankees prospects are.
You know what’s a terrible move? Posting about a recently completed trade netting us a pitcher on a thread about left fielders.
This isn’t ‘Nam, Smokey, there are rules.
Ever heard of a signing a future contract extension?
i think there has to be a companion deal here and i think it is Joba getting dealt for a young OF like a Jay Bruce or in a package to get Matt Kemp.
I think one of the themes this offseason is that Joba/Hughes/Montero aren’t getting dealt unless it’s Johnson or Felix coming back.
Why must there be a companion LF deal? The Yanks are pretty much where they were a week ago with regards to LF. They have a sub-optimal player penciled in now with money to spend and 58 days until pitchers and catchers report.
Also, the LFer will still be hitting 9th in our lineup..
I say F-it, let’s just roll with Gardy. Grad and Gard in the lineup will sure throw a couple of illiterate readers off their horses.
no, Gardbrera gave more confidence than Hoffner does. Not much, but, a little.
i know, but honestly i am tired of the joba/hughes pen shuffle and if we could get a potential stud of who is under 25 it is more than worth joba.
Wow, what a terrible reason to trade a player, because you’re tired of an inane, media-driven narrative.
Hey, thats only PART of the reason! LOL
im not talking about dealing him for crap so the indignation is unnecessary.
They got vazquez because their pitching depth was not enough. You’re talking about dealing away a key part of that depth for what is (essentially) a luxury item beyond what is available for money only.
If Joba is dealt, going into 2011 the rotation would be CC, AJ, Hughes, ZMac and Nova, compelling the Yanks to sign multiple free agents for the rotation from a weak bargaining position. Boo.
actually that is a pretty ridiculous way to look at the 2011 rotation. Signing holliday for 18 mil, Andy’s 12 and Vaz’s 11.5 (potentially NJ’s 5.5) is all money that if not spent can be used on all the FA pitching out there next year.
So trading Joba in a deal for Kemp is not trading for a “luxury” item. You are trading for a superstar who is 25 and will be cheap for the next 2-3 years and under-market for another 1-2 after that. So if you can make that deal and have all that money for 2011 they can do whatever they want with the rotation.
When did they sign Matt Holliday?
The whole point of keeping Joba and Hughes is so that they can go for actual elite players like Joe Mauer or Cliff Lee without having to spend money on mediocre pitching fill out the back end of a rotation.
What’s up with Rick Ankiel?? Could he be a possibility for LF?
I haven’t heard much on him this offseason, what is he looking for money wise?
Why deal a good pitcher for a LF when u can sign one for free???
I like it.
I wanted to trade to build a package around wang, Cano, Kemp and Kershaw last year.
Joba and Gardner for Kemp?
i would do that in a heartbeat, but not sure LA would.
We’ve already traded a lot of value out of the farm. I’m not opposed to giving up prospects for established veterans under the right circumstances, but to get guys like Bruce or Kemp would obliterate depth and our flexibility a few years down the line. The reason you have a good farm is to keep costs low and to get good value when you need to for veterans. I just don’t see us needing guys like Bruce or Kemp.
As much as I hate Gardner, we would still have a very potent offense with him at #9 and now we have a very strong rotation. Literally every other position has a potential All Star. Besides, as Ben noted, we still have time and a few dollars if they really are too uncomfortable with the prospect of starting Gardhoff.
i can understand the argument if you think trading for Kemp would take significantly more than Joba, i honestly dont know what a package for him would cost.
are there any updates on what Damon’s asking price is?
Last we heard was that he was willing to take 2 years at $10 million per. It’s tough to say if he would return that much value over the next two seasons.
What if we sent him to the Derek Jeter Center For Children Who Can’t Play Defense Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too?
You may want to use someone other than a multiple gold glove winner and a guy who won a title playing SS at 35 as ur example for the ha ha’s
Jeter, who sucked on D most of his career., turned his defense around at age 34 through dedication to a new workout regimen and hard work.
Isn’t he the perfect example to use here?
http://todayilaughed.com/wp-co.....h-five.jpg
This is the last time I fall for that one! My whole computer is now smudged, you jerk!
Now that the Yankees are already above their prescribed $200M limit, any chance they scrap the budget all together and go for the kill, in the form of Holliday?
No. While they might add payroll over the budget for 2010, they will not do so for 2011, much less 2015.
I dont think they mind going high on the one yr deals. But they dont want to clog LF up wwith a long term deal because Jeter may have to move there next yr
I doubt there’s any impending move on Jeter moving to LF, but yes, I’ll agree they don’t mind one-year deals or would be interested in “clogging” LF on a long-term basis, especially for guys that will likely decline in a few years.
So…half agree.
I wouldn’t mind Derosa at 5 per. Still though, the wrist surgery is a bit scary.
I am a DeRosa fan. I enjoy his versatility, power, professionalism, and gorgeous wife. But I’m not confident that he’ll be the same hitter coming off of wrist surgery, and coming from the weaker league. Anyone want to drink the koolaid I was brewing the other day for Elijah Dukes?
I could see the Yankees trading Gaudin to free up about $3 million, and then going after Damon again, or keeping Gaudin and try to sign XN VI back and hope he doesn’t have to miss much time.
Although I’ve said I’m alright with DeRosa if the price is right, I’m not sure why Gardner can’t hold down LF.
If you want to say his bat doesn’t play in LF, fine, I’d be okay with flipping him and Grandy. But I’d like to see what Gardner can do in a full-time gig. If he gets on base consistently that 2.1 WAR will probably go up.
Plus the outfield defense would be excellent.
I may be wrong but that WAR factors in his UZR/150. Using his UZR/150 is a bit crazy because he doesn’t even have enough innings to account for 105 games.
I don’t agree with the line of reasoning that his bat doesn’t play in LF but it does in CF. Granderson’s bat is better than most LFers, let alone CFers. If we were talking trade value, that is one thing. But they play on the same team, would hit in the same lineup. Make the best defensive decision (not sure if Gardner really is as good as his recent UZRs show), and roll with that……
All of that being said, I don’t think Gardner is good enough to play everyday. To think that he can consistently get on-base as an everyday player with absolutely no power doesn’t seem completely reasonable. I think he’s a useful reserve, either a 4th OFer on a team with a lot of power, or a 5th OFer. So I’d rather he was relegated to playing 1-2 times per week.
I’m not sure Gardner has had ample opportunity to prove that he can’t do what you’re saying. Before he got hurt last year he was playing pretty well.
He did lose his job in April..
But then had a great May/June.
April/July/September was brutal.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to give him a shot, I just haven’t seen much promise.
But last year Girardi did a great job of putting him in a position to succeed, same with Melky. The scouting report on Gardner from scouts, not jerks like me, is that he can’t hit well enough to be an everday OFer.
My thought it that once he gets exposed to the league regularly, we’ll find that he can’t get as many walks or hits because pitchers are more familiar with him, and his inability to hit for power.
That’s valid.
but don’t you think Girardi could get the same kind of production out of him this year, considering he’ll have Hoffman as a platoon-mate?
This pretty much gets my vote. Granderson in LF, Gardmann platoon in CF. Should be good enough for league average offense in the 9 hole with a great defensive OF.
As an affordable option I kinda like Nady. I know he has mostly played in right, but either he or Swisha could handle left field with Gardner there as a late inning defensive replacement.
Johnny Damon probably has a stronger throwing arm than Nady at this point. Now I know arm isn’t that important to defense, but he just had TJ surgery for the 2nd time, I’d be a little weary of putting him out in the field.
probably not, but noted
Okay so I used a little hyperbole there when talking about Nady’s arm, but you understood my point.
Unfortunately there is basically no track record on how a position player will recover from a second TJ surgery. There is evidence that pitchers generally don’t recover well, but I’m not sure you can apply the same percentages to a position player. A 10% drop in pitchers velocity would basically be the end of his career. A 10% drop in an outfielders arm would hurt, but not be a big deal – particularly in left field.
i was thinking X too. it fits. I’m sure he is liked in the clubhouse
Plenty of OF options. Damon still fits in best with this team. DeRosa wouldnt be a bad option with his versatility. Dye could add another right handed power bat. Got Byrd too.
Dont think they’ll go with a Gardner Hoffman platoon party out there.
How about Ryan Church!!
Lots of cheap righty OF butchers out there such as Dye, Sheff and Thames. These guys do give you more power but I don’t think you really get more overall value once defense is included. I think one will eventually become the bench OF over signing a higher priced more everyday type player.
well gardner+hoffman would be a good defensive duo and could, feasibly be played to their own strengths with matchups/hot streaks, etc. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the yanks squeeze 3 WAR out of left next year (which will undoubtedly be their worst position, WAR-wise)
wouldnt gardy be playing center and grandy playing left if they both start?
Would Jett Gardmann be as productive at Brelky Gardbrera?
I feel like no one has considered this before, but any chance that the Yankees convert Montero into an outfielder? Seems like his bat can play anywhere. 3B and 1B are taken for a while and Romine sounds like the better defensive catcher.
that wont happen this year for sure. they are going to give him every opportunity to remain at catcher.
From most descriptions of Montero, I don’t picture him as being athletic enough to provide below average defense in either of the corner spots.
I say let him develop as a catcher until you can’t keep his bat away from the bigs any longer, and then have him work as an outfielder/catcher/1B/3B in spring training 2011, with the intention of having him be the DH. If he can play passably (for a game, anyway) at multiple positions, then when people like Posada/A-Rod/Tex need a day off, you don’t need to put a scrub who can’t hit into the starting lineup.
Much like DHing Johnson will reduce the risk of injury for him this year, DHing montero for his career will reduce the risk of injury for him. Having a young player who can play crappy, but not too too crappy defense at multiple positions be the primary DH could work better than people seem to think.
I wonder what the odds of going with Gardner are. Cash is putting more value on speed, youth and defense these days. With Hoffman reportedly an excellent defensive player with some power, he could be a decent 4th outfielder. We have to save cash somewhere and Gardner and Granderson would chase down a lot of balls in Yankee stadiums large left field.
Could be we are more or less set for the season. I would be happy to go forward with this team, slotting Gaudin into the pen and trading Mitre for a low level prospect to save a little cash. If I was being greedy I’d say a better 2nd lefty than Logan would be nice.
We added another strike out pitcher-taking more stress off of our fielders. Probably Hughes to the pen for the full season. Granderson in LF and Gardner in CF is a very good combo. I would sign Damon for 1 year, but as currently constructed we are younger, faster and better defensively than last year. Granderson/Gardner/Johnson are equal to or better than what you were going to probably get out of Damon/Matsui/Cabrera offensively this year and much better defensively.
“Granderson/Gardner/Johnson are equal to or better than what you were going to probably get out of Damon/Matsui/Cabrera offensively this year and much better defensively.”
Equal or better? When I see these cats produce in a playoff atmosphere over several years then I’ll state that. None of those 3 have any playoff pedigree worth speaking of. Damon is a proven postseason performer, same with Matsui. We’re PRAYING Granderson reverts to the mean and that Johnson stays healthy. I agree defensively we’re better but honestly, how many games is our “improved” defense going to win for us considering how potent our offense is?
Who can honestly state they want Nick Johnson/Curtis Granderson up to bat in a crucial spot in the playoffs against a Beckett or a Halladay over Matsui/Damon?
What do you need to pray harder for guys on the wrong side of 30 staying healthy or guy entering his prime reverting to the mean?
I don’t buy the “postseason pedigree” stuff. Postseason games are played with the same rules as regular season games, therefore, in a large enough sample, players will play at their normal levels in the postseason.
As much as I’d love to see Kemp in pinstripes, it’s not happening anytime soon. If it could happen with Joba as the centerpiece I’d be all over it, but it would take significantly more than that.
DeJesus, maybe for Gardner-plus? A career .286/.358/.425 that would surely see an increase in power from the short porch. Right around the proposed budget at $4.7M (essentially $4.3M) next year, too. Also a potential one-year commitment.
I like.
I’m half expecting that one myself.
Then sign Freddy Guzman as a LIDR?
Call it an offseason Cash. Enjoy the fact that you have managed to greatly improve the defending World Champions while trimming payroll. For all you do Brian Cashman, this Bud’s for you.
It’s a shame you praise him with a toast of such an inferior, foul beer.
I Lol’d.
Just say no to DeRosa. He really doesn’t do anything particularly well. At least Grit provides excellent defense and baserunning. Hope for the best with him, and if he can’t hack it at the plate, I’m sure there will be trade options during the season.
The Yankees are going to be scoring eleventy billion runs a game, nobody is going to notice who is hitting 9th.
they will when he is killing rallies by popping up or striking out..
Excellent defense yes. Baserunning? well I don’t know about that, he needs work in that area.
He’s 39 for 46 in steal attempts, an 86% success rate. That’s a good number. He’s not Rickey Henderson, but he can swipe a bag pretty well. What’s the basis for your comment – getting thrown out twice in the playoffs? Stuff happens. I think it’s a bit hasty to bury him just for that.
In any case, I KNOW he brings more to the table on the bases than Mark DeRosa.
Base stealing and base running are a bit different, but I hear what you’re saying. I don’t think Gardner’s approach at the plate will be very effective and his base running instincts aren’t very refined. If he’s able to use his body a bit more when batting and develop better pitch recognition, he may end up being quite serviceable, especially when taking into account what should be very, very good defense in LF. He’ll also need to focus a bit more on the base paths.
I’ll be thrilled if he hits .265/.345/.365 with a UZR of +10 and 40+ steals. I don’t see him doing that well with the bat (I’m guessing .245/.330/.340), but he should be able to easily net the others with enough playing time.
Also, if he puts up numbers like that, I’ll finally start recognizing his value and may just stop wishing ill upon him and his family.
Well I see no one has discussed Jason Bay, and for that I am thankful.
Signing Jason Bay would smell of the Yankees M.O. from 2003-2007ish
Derek Jeter to LF.
Mind Blown to smithereens
This finally opens the door for Colin Curtis.
/sarcasm’d
Is Curtis Pride still available?
Why not just have Gardner play center and move Granderson to lf. He will cover tons of ground and might save his legs some.
He’s 29. His legs are fine.
The question should be who we think will play a better CF and who a better LF. It seems Gardner has played there more. So, leave well enough alone, i figure.
What about Kelly Johnson? Could be a good alternative to DeRosa, if the latter’s price isn’t right.
shit, i just read klaw’s take on the deal and he apparently likes arodys a lot. he said he’s top 100 in the game
History is littered with guys who had massive promise at age 19 and turned out to never make it. If the kid was older and succeeding at AA, I’d be a LOT more upset about losing him.
Yeah, I agree with this. Not knocking Vizcaino by any means, but he’s an 18 year old who is at least 4 years away from the show. It’s possible that some day we all look back in sorrow at this trade, but the odds are against it.
Remember Tabata? Young kid, high ceiling, never lived up to it? Had to make it happen today!!
Where did it say Viz was top 100?
like i said, on klaw’s anaylisis
Ah,you’re completely correct, I missed it the first three times I read it. That fucker snuck it in there right at the end. It’s funny because I doubt he would have said Viz was a Top 100 prospect if he stayed in the Yanks system.
All the porn pop-ups in the way?
Haha, who told you?
80 innings and he hasn’t even played full season ball yet.
There is nothing wrong with a Grandy-Gardy-Swish OF from a def or offensive perspective. I think you can get 330 woba from Gardner with plus CF defense. Find the best value righted handed OF bat for the bench.
No on Bay and maybe, if prices come down on Holliday, damon, derosa.
The more I look at stats, etc, the more DeJesus makes sense over DeRosa. He’d be cheaper for better OF defense and a higher projected wRC, and his bat would benefit from YS. It really makes too much sense. DeRosa’s flexibility is nice, but in reality how often are A-Rod and Cano going to sit?
Yeah, but Derosa is free in terms of prospects.
If it’s Gardner+filler, it doesn’t make much of a difference to me.
Figure the Braves might be in on one of these 3, namely Damon after freeing up the money today.
Why not kick the tires on Vlad and Ryan Church for cheap 1 year deals? Low risk/High Reward……….
Ryan Church? Sure, why not. Vlad? No. Like Matsui (though perhaps to a slightly lesser extent), Vlad is not fit to play the OF anymore.
Where the hell would we put Vlad? Not Left Field, that’s for sure.
I agree about Ryan Church. He’s got a real RF arm, his propensity for doubles seems to make him a potential 20+ HR’s in YS, he is budget friendly and would knock himself out to show-up the Mets.
Church would be a cheap option (sound outfielder) with some pop and yes he would want to show up the Mets.
Vlad would have to prove he could play OF, but his swing would be scary in the Bronx. Not looking at him as a defensive player but someone you plug into the 5 hole behind AROD, TEX. Murderers Row……..
Vlad only has one thing going for him right now: reputation.
We have a vastly superior DH already in Nick Johnson. Vlad is D-O-N-E, especially when it comes to playing in the outfield. Let the Rangers have him and figure that out on their own.
High reward?
i say that we try to bring back nady. he’ll be cheap as hell, i know he’s comin off TJ but if he gets healthy enough he could start in left. who’s with me?
Eh, second TJ. I wouldn’t hate it as a cheap shot in the dark.
Heeeeeeeere’s Johnny!
Not buying the “we can’t afford it” line. Never stopped them last year and it won’t again. Classic position to tell everyone that you can’t afford it, won’t dit and so on. That they will only spend 5-6 Mil. A joke. Anoher way to go after Bay or Holliday. personally I think they prefer the power bat Bay would provide. Gardner can be the 4th outfielder.
Look for Bay in LF next year. he’s a legit 30HR 100 RBI guy. He can play RF when we grab Crawford next year.
Jason Bay: DO NOT WANT
He’s DH pretending to be a left fielder. The Yankees said they’d offer him a 2 year deal and that sounds about right.
Holliday is awesome but I think there is indeed a budget, I believe that. They could technically afford him but its not like the acquisitions from last year just magically disappeared. We have 7 years of Teix left, 6 years of CC if he doesn’t opt out, and 4 years of Burnett. Not to mention A-Rod.
You believe what the Yankees say? Why? No one else does. The Yankees having a budget is ridiculous. Were they on a budget when they built their new stadium? A budget? I don’t know where you were this last decade, but I did not see the Yankees on any kind of budget. I saw a team in the WS 4 out of the last 10 years, with 3 rings. I saw a team miss the playoffs once. I didn’t see much of a budget. I think that same “Budget” will continue to allow for signings like a new left fielder and a Cuban stud.
That “budget” crap last year landed CC, TEX and Burnett. This year it will land Granderson, JV………….(you think they’re done? Yeah, they said so. Sure, the Yanks always tell everyone their strategy)
This is a sad example of communal reinforcement ( luckily not on RAB, but more a general mentality, particularly on the interwebs). Also, it’s fallacious to assume because something has happened, it will always continue. Good lord, please think this stuff through.
Unless of course you are a troll, in which case you have my congrats for a job well done.
A sad example of free speech? Excuse me, pompous ass, but this board does not belong to you. Anyone can post their view. I never said that anything would “always happen”. I cited an example to support my view, that example happened last year when we were repeatedly told that the Yankees don’t have the money. Then I stated that I thought the same thing would happen again this year. Would you really be shocked if Bay or Holliday wear Yankee gear next year?
Good lord, be flexible in your own thinking before you are critical of another’s. Otherwise you just might find out how narrow and shallow your own view really is.
Are you really a Yankee fan? Can you really believe that the Yankees have a budget? Do you think they really care what you think about a player or a budget? They run a business and they will do whatever they can to make the business a success, and that means winning. When you do that, you have the best possible players available. Right now, Bay/Holliday are the best available. The Yankees will have one in LF next year.
Gardy at 476K a year? Priceless….
Gardy is a great 4th outfielder, but we need a 3rd outfielder.
I think we are all falling for the same old “Bubba Crosby is our centerfielder” act. I would not at all be shocked if the Yanks made a move on Bay/Holliday. I would be stunned if Gardner is our starting left fielder. I would be happy with Damon or Derosa. However Cashman is excellent at head fakes and I am telling you when the phone call comes iwth Bay/Hollidays last best offer from their respective agents. I would not be shocked if Cashman jumped. About Vizcaino we are talking about an 18 year old kid at short season ball. Even if he pans out it will be in Atlanta. Essentially the Yankees got granderson/Vazquez for 1 good prospect AJAX and maybe one good prospect Vizcaino. Not bad at all.
IPK was (is) a quality prospect as well. Just sayin’
Good nl prospect you mean I doubt his stuff would translate to the AL. he will do well in Arizona. I am not sad about his deaprture.I am not happy they watsed a first round pick on him. There had to be better players in that draft.
IPK definitely could’ve succeeded as a back-end rotation starter in the AL, he’s got a lot of potential. But I will avoid getting into a yelling match about it, I don’t really give a shit about trying to change your mind.
Um ok I was not shouting I was disagreeing. I think there was probably better talent in that draft and IPK will be a good NL pitcher. Hardly worth losing sleep over. However you miht be right as well.
Good times. IPK definitely should find some success in the NL, I do agree with that.
Absolutely correct. Bay or Holliday. I think they will grab Bay. Nothing like a little sizzle to the opening day game. Bay just loves Boston these days.
I’m not sure what to think about LF. I wouldn’t be distraught if Gardner got the job. The way I look at it is this: Are the Yankees better than last year’s World Series team right now? I would say yes. Gardner’s defense (and arm) would play great in LF. But we can do is hope and pray that he puts up something close to league average offensive production.
I would personally love it if the Yankees could work something out with Johnny Damon now. My only concern is how he would feel about getting stiffed because if the Yankees sign him it won’t be on his terms. He’s only a couple years removed from questioning his own desire to play the game. I do think his defense improved in the 2nd half of the season, as he purported. DeRosa would be an improvement defensively…but only slightly. The fact remains that he’s nowhere near the offensive player JD is.
Right now – as I think we all agree – it all comes down to price. If DeRosa remains $5-6 million cheaper than Damon, then that’s the way you have to go IMHO.
The only way i see gardner as being unusable as a #9 hitter who splits his time with Hoffman (unless he’s good enough that he doesn’t have to) is if he hits at replacement level. In my opinion, anything north of .260/.330/.350, considering his defense and baserunning/stealing ability, is perfectly acceptable. Of course, it’s not a given that he does even that (I really don’t care about the BA, I just don’t see him, a player with tremendous speed and a decent ability to put the ball in play, hitting much lower than .260), but at this point there isn’t a whole lot of evidence suggesting that he can’t.
It’s not likely to happen, but Brett’s ceiling is not as insignificant as people thing – the guy probably won’t ever slug better than .400, but it’s not terribly unreasonable to believe that he could (key word) OBP around .360, steal 40+ bases at a 85% or better rate, and play close to +20 defense in center. It’s not likely, but that’s close to a 5 WAR player I believe, and he’ll never be expensive. Given the firepower of the rest of the offense, and the amount of money that’s currently tied up in everything, why bother making another move? This team is, as it currently stands, easily the best in baseball. Why jeopardize the future just to increase that dichotomy?
I’ve seen Jamal G post some great things about Gardner. I wouldn’t say I like him so much that I’d prefer him to say, Johnny Damon, but I think I’d also be cool with him being the starting day LF if that what it came down to. If he can get on base 34% of the time, with his defense, I’d be totally happy. I don’t care what he SLGs, honestly. For Gardner offensively, its ALL about OBP.
I think at some point, in Gardner’s case, you have to distance yourself from his minor league numbers and pay more attention to the scouting report. RAB posted something about the difficulties of trying to project a player like Gardner. I personally don’t think he can sustain a .340 OBP at the major league level because of his lack of hitting ability. He does not have a major league-caliber swing, and the more pitchers challenge him in the strikezone, the less he will succeed. This has been discussed at length. Not to say I disagree with any of the points made…I’m just playing devil’s advocate.
I honestly don’t know how to feel about Garder. I guess the only way to find out would be to let him play come April and see what happens.
Naw you’re right though Frank. He looks overmatched a lot of the time, he’ll need to have amazing eyesight and plate discipline to succeed and become an everyday player, even batting in the #9 spot. I liked the write up Mike A. did on Hoffmann, I hope he does well in ST since he seems way more toolsy than Gardner, and I would imagine has quite a bit more upside.
I wish he would (could) bunt better.
Yet another reason of why this is the worst Yankee trade in recent memory. We’re somehow worse in the present, immediate future, and distant future.
You trade a 25 year-old outfielder with a cannon arm who’s not yet reached his prime for one year of an NL East creation who already failed in his first stint pitching for your team in your division. You also throw in a potential stud prospect, stunt the progress of two young pitchers you considered untouchable, and now pretty much have to fork over major money to someone like Matt Holliday because, really, you’re not going to play the likes of Brett Gardner and Jamie Hoffman in leftfield.
Completely invalidates the good will of the Granderson trade and makes this team seem more like one that acts out of desperation than one that just won the World Series.
Unbelievable.
Did you say cannon arm. I am sorry Melky at best is an average major leaguer, Mike Dunn might be a decent lefty specialist. Vizcaino is 18 fucking years old and in short season A ball. I think you can replace all those guys. Vazquex is older and wiser and apparently a much better picther now than in 2004. He will be your fourth starter.
Hell, the Yankees already replaced Melky. Meet Jamie Hoffman.
Meet (insert generic AAA outfielder’s name here)
Gardner might be a good player and hitting him ninth would not be teh worst mistake in teh world. He did show some signs of quality last year. If Damon were smart he would take a one year deal for about 7 million have a good season and try again next year. I do not think Atalnt nor San Francisco are going to pay what he wants. His numbers would also suffer greatly in Pac Bell and Turner Field.
Here’s some Washington post cvoerage of the Tex drama last year
http://voices.washingtonpost.c.....ht_be.html
May fav part:
“I have been told the Yankees can’t afford both Sabathia and Teixeira (together, they could cost upwards of $300 million) — which is one reason they made a pre-emptive strike by trading for Nick Swisher, whom they would be happy to have as their regular first baseman next season. But maybe they could afford Derek Lowe and Teixeira, or A.J. Burnett and Teixeira. In other words, if Sabathia chooses to go somewhere else, it is entirely possible the Yankees could seek to use that money to upgrade their offense. Hello, Mark Teixeira. This, at least, is Boras’s dream scenario.”
Little did they know that the dream scenario for the Yanks would be to sign as they did. The article was trying to figure out how much the Yanks could afford and what combo they would go for. In other words, the Yanks do whatever the hell they want when they want.
The Yanks don’t look to this rag of a blog or any other A-hole on here to determine what they will or won’t do. They get the players they want if they can and don’t care what the public thinks. Good! They will continue to do this and so get ready for more. So, the shopping list for the Yanks looks like this (nice credit card they get to use by the way, the Bank of Yankee Gold Card)
SP (Yes, we always could use more, Yawn I’m Booooored again)
Aroldis Chapman (he’s theirs if they want him. If he’s as good as they say, they’ll get him)
Perhaps Sheets? Don’t know depends on how much they value him or think that Joba will do. Maybe they keep Joba or deal him for an OF.
Assuming they don’t just sign Holliday or Bay of course. Maybe they sign Johnny Damon.
Personally, I think (and that’s all any of us can do, even you know-it-alls that know nothing but will claim to know- BUT DON’T) I think the Yanks will:
Sign Chapman (who we will see in make spot starts in August, he IS that good)
Keep Joba for the number 5 (who also IS that good and will do great with a year under his belt)
Grab Bay to Play LF
Keep Hughes as the #8 and
Re sign Jerry Hariston Jr. (as they should)
Out of money they say?
HA
HA HA
HA
I Say!
http://riveraveblues.com/river.....guidelines
Dude has 86 innings under his belt and hasn’t even played full season ball yet. Get a grip, hombre.
Haha…they deleted his post…now it looks like I’m talking to myself…
Thankfully, Ben already took down his post.
I love DeRosa’s versatility, power, and gorgeous wife, but coming off wrist surgery, I just don’t see it being a smart play. I’d prefer try someone younger, with a chance to be really good (not Gardner). Anyone want to drink the koolaid I was brewing the other day for Elijah Dukes?
I don’t know this DeRosa — I don’t know how he hits, I don’t know how he fields. Now why don’t you tell him that signing is out of the question, and you don’t want to see him anymore. He’ll understand, believe me.