Halladay set to join Phils in three team blockbuster

December 14, 2009 by Mike Axisa 358 Comments

Via MLBTR, Blue Jays’ ace Roy Halladay is set to join the defending NL Champs … as soon as he agrees to a contract extension. Based on what we know right now, Cliff Lee would go to the Mariners, and presumably a boatload of young players would go to Toronto. The Yanks have been connected to Halladay all offseason, and Joel Sherman mentions that they talked to Phightin’s about Lee, however didn’t like the price.

Zack

Finally, no more trade proposals!!
radnom

Mind = blown.

Damn, today just exploded out of nowhere.

Halladay, Lackey, Matsui.
- J. Pomales
  
  the baseball world is on fire today
popo

Dammmn… Lee and King Felix = Nasty.
- jsbrendog
  
  esp with the right side defense of chone and wilson. dag yo.
  - Section 39
    
    All that pitching yet they still have nobody to hit the ball… Figgins is most certainly NOT that answer…
Rose

Rose says:
December 14th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

Halladay going to Phillies, Cliff Lee going to Mariners, Prospects to Blue Jays…not sure which ones?

Also, Sox officially signed Lackey?

Why the hell would the Phillies trade Cliff Lee for Halladay? I’m still trying to understand this…Halladay may be better…but not to the point where this makes any sense or was even necessary.
- popo
  
  I guess they prefer giving a long term deal to Doc than Lee.
  - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
    
    That. Can’t say I blame them, either.
  - KK
    
    Halladay was willing to sign for under market value, Lee was obviously seeking a massive contract, which seems unjustified seeing as he hasn’t got the track record Halladay has.
- Hughesus Christo
  
  First of all, Halladay is a lot better than Lee.
  
  Second, stories seem to indicate that Philly saw no discount of any kind coming from Lee, and they would rather pay top dollar for the better player.
  - CountryClub
    
    Halladay has had the better career. But right now, there’s very little seperating the two in quality.
- Joe B.
  
  Lee wanted to test FA, so Philly wasn’t going to extend him. Halladay wants to go to Philly, and theoretically would take a below-market extension to play there. So Philly traded one year of Lee + draft picks for four+ years of Halladay at below market value. Very nice move.
- Rod
  
  Lee was supposedly asking for $23M AAV so it could be a thing where they felt they had a better chance to sign Doc long term to more reasonable dollars.
Mac

Good news for the Yanks. Don’t have to face Halladay nearly as much, if at all.

Lackey to the Sox seems to be official now. Not to worried about that since the Sox still have to address their offense a great deal.
- pat
  
  Yeah, this Halladay trade just made the Yanks like 3 or 4 wins better.
  - andrew
    
    Whatever advantage it gives the Yankees, it also gives to the rest of the AL East, so the advantage is pretty much nullified except in the Wild Card.
    - CountryClub
      
      For whatever reason, Halladay struggled a bit vs the Sox.
  - http://www.workwithpete.com Pete
    
    I’d say it evens out. We have to face Lackey 3-4 more times than we would if he had stayed in LA.
    - jsbrendog
      
      there are not enough >>>>>> to describe how much better halladay is than lackey
      - KK
        
        Truth.
    - CountryClub
      
      Lackey is good (when healthy). But, other than a couple of starts this year, Halladay has owned the Yanks.
  - Salty Buggah
    
    Not that many since we’ll still face him like twice w/ Seattle and we faced him like 4-5 times a year. But yea, it makes us like 2 wins better.
    - Ansky
      
      Thank god Roy’s outta the AL East!
MattG

And still no mention of this pending deal anywhere on the ESPN site. Can they really be so Boston-centric to not want to bump Lackey off the top spot?
- Mike bk
  
  dude get off it. if u look it is in the insider rumor mill.
  - MattG
    
    Are you serious? Look at every other baseball site. Now look at ESPN. One of these things is not like the other.
    - MattG
      
      Oops, nevermind.
DP

This could not have worked out better given the fact that he’s leaving not only the AL East, but the AL and that Philly for some reason traded away Lee so it takes away from how potentially dominant they could’ve been.
http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif Omg!Zombies!

Just when you think nothing would match last off season.

Lee + Felix = Nasty

Halladay on the Philles = L for Mets

Toronto gets the prospects they wanted so I’m happy for them because Hallday killed the Yanks and we wont have to worry about him going to the Red Sox. Nor do we have to worry about Jesus leaving us.

I’m really interested in the prospects that are going to Toronto.
- http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
  
  Toronto gets the prospects they wanted
  
  What are the prospects? I can’t find any story exposition anywhere.
  - http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif Omg!Zombies!
    
    I dunno but I would assume since it was done before spring training, that the prospects are good enough for the Jays.
  - A.D.
    
    I don’t think anyone knows, was just referring in that they got prospects in general.
Salty Buggah

Man, Seattle is going to have some great pitching. They have good pitchers AND great OF defense.

What a day
- KK
  
  Too bad they can’t hit. Every Mariners game is Ichiro getting to first, stealing second, and waiting for an RBI that never comes.
Mike bk

i know roy is a better pitcher than lee, but he isnt going to pitch any better in a post season than lee did last year so how are they better unless Hamels steps back up. they either have to get a good prospect in this deal or it has to have saved them some serious prospects or it doesnt really make sense to philly. this potentially seems good for the yanks because roy goes to the nl, lee is in the al west. lee, felix is a big 1-2 combo
- KK
  
  Well, unlike Lee, we’re all pretty sure Doc can pitch on 3 days. He doesn’t pile up 9 CG a season by not being a horse.
pat

Muahahah, the Angels are gettin DP’ed today. Couldnt have happened to a classier fanbase.
- Tom Zig
  
  Double penetrated?
  
  looks up to see who wrote the comment, thinks to self, “Yeah, that’s definitely what he meant.”
  - pat
    
    Your inner monologue guides you correctly.
MattG

Seattle, now your AL West favorites.
- KK
  
  Still. Can’t. Hit.
- lebigyank
  
  whaaaaa… aaaaa… aaa………..t?
Rose

Seattle gets Cliff Lee, Phillies get Roy Halladay, Boston gets John Lackey…

But still the one that breaks my heart the most is the strong possibility of losing Matsui :/
- http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
  
  Seattle gets Cliff Lee, Phillies get Roy Halladay, Boston gets John Lackey…
  
  The big winner in all three of those moves: The New York Yankees
Jonathan

Interesting. Seattle is going to contend this year for sure. If they added a solid bat I think they could win the AL west. If not they will definitely compete for the wild card.
- pat
  
  If they don’t win the AL West they’re not gonna be in contention for the wildcard.
Salty Buggah

This is why we love baseball. NBA season is going on and a bunch of races are going on in the NFL yet Baseball is still making the biggest next.
- Salty Buggah
  
  Ugh not next but news.
aj

This is bad. Imagine, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K, Lester, Bucholz…..ouch…and then no Roy Halladay next year…ouch…the Yanks will have to rely on getting Webb next year..>OUCH!!
- Rose
  
  Meh. The 2010 Red Sox are the 2003-2009 Toronto Blue Jays.
- jsbrendog
  
  beckett, yr older, meh
  
  lackey, meh, we beat him when it counted the most, not worried one bit
  
  dice k, laughable
  
  lester, frightening
  
  bucholz, meh, potential but nothing to be worried about yet
  - Mike Pop
    
    Buchholz could be moved for a bat now.
    - jsbrendog
      
      justin smoak type bat
      
      /couldnt resist
    - pat
      
      Yeah Buchh could be moved for a bat which means in 2011 when Wake is gone and Beckett leaves for greener pastures they can turn their lonely eyes towards…. Michael Bowden!!
    - KK
      
      Are they gonna hurry up and trade for Adrian Gonzalez or what? I don’t think that the Padres are ever going to get 3 prospects for him, but if it ever drops down to 2, they’d be stupid not to do it.
  - JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
    
    I dunno about all that. Listen, CC>Lester. So we’ve got that. I think Lackey is >Burnett simply because he’s more consistent and they’re both injury risks. Beckett>Pettitte. The last two spots are pushes.
    
    Don’t sell them short; they have a damn good rotation on paper. I dare say better than ours.
    - pat
      
      Possibly better rotation but our offense + defense = MUCH better.
      - JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
        
        No doubt.
      - http://aol Rob
        
        Defense is better?? We have one great glovesman in our infield (Tex), they have 1b, 2nd, 3rd (Beltre) and SS has better range than Jeter now. Outfield Drew is better than Swish, CF better than CG and who is our LF and theirs? If we get Damon, they can run out Francona’s mother and have better D there too.
        
        pat
        
        Shit, they signed Beltre? I must have missed that. Check Ellsbury’s 09 UZR, it was horrendous.
        Scutaro is better than Jeter? Not last year he wasn’t.
        Drew plays good defense, but who plays the 50 games when he’s on the bench with a sore back?
        Even if we go with Melk or Gardner in LF they will be demonstratively better with the glove than whoever they find.
        
        JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
        
        Well, let’s see: Beltre hasn’t signed. If that’s the case, yes, he’s better than A-Rod. No doubt.
        Cano and Pedroia I’ll call a draw.
        
        Scutaro’s really not all that good at short. He’s put up a -8.1 in his career, and 0.9 in 2009. He’s had one season with a strong UZR and that was in less than 70 games. Not sold. Jeter’s never had good range, but he was very good in 2009. For shits and giggles we’ll call it a draw.
        
        Posada, as woeful as he is, along with Cervelli, is on par, or better, than the Sox. They are atrocious behind the plate.
        
        OF depends heavily on whom each team signs for a LF. Bay get the edge in Right over Swisher, but you are wrong about Ellsbury; he’s not better than CG, BG or Melky. Look at the UZR numbers. He may have range but he can’t read the ball off the bat or take a proper route.
        
        Who knows about LF, so whatever.
        
        At this point, because the Yanks and Sox still don’t have LF figured out, the Sox don’t have 3B worked, we shouldn’t necessarily be marking down who will have the better defense. I still think that the Yanks, up the middle, will be stronger. Right now, this is all academic.
        
        JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
        
        *Drew gets the edge Right over Swisher…
        
        KK
        
        A-Rod is actually a pretty good 3B. If he ever learned how to catch fly balls correctly, anyways.
        
        And I think you underestimate just how horrible a catcher Posada really is. Rather than being far superior, I think he’s roughly the same as V.Martinez.
        
        For the most part, I agree though. Boston’s everyday players are actually kind of meh.
- IRememberCelerinoSanchez
  
  Yeah, you said it. Because Dice-K was great last year. Oh, wait, he wasn’t? Damn. Well, at least Lackey dominates the Yanks and pitches well in Fenway. Oh, not that too? And Buchholz is a proven winner who has solidified his position in the rotation. Wait, he hasn’t? So, by “Ouch,” you meant, “This makes the Sox a little better but still not a dominant force.”
  
  If you’re a Red Sox fan, you got Lackey instead of Halladay, so you can’t be happy.
  
  And Webb? WTF?
  - aj
    
    Dice-K was hurt last year. The year before he was great, the year before that he won the World series with them. Bucholz had a ton of potential, and Lackey mowed em down in the post season, even though the Yanks got to him in the end.
    
    And Webb will probably be the only ace available next year. so YES Brandon Webb!
    - Zack
      
      Lackey “mowed em down in postseason” = 12.1 IP 17H 5ER
      so dominant.
      
      And DiceK was not great, its called lucky
      - Zack
        
        Lackey numbers v NYY in postseason^
    - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
      
      I’d say this trade increases the likelihood that both Cliff Lee AND Josh Beckett are on the market next winter.
      - aj
        
        I hate Josh Beckett, I can’t imagine him as a Yankee. But then again I hated Manny pre-steroids and I would’ve taken him on any team of mine.
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        Didn’t say I wanted either of them, just quibbling with the notion that Webb will be the only ace on the market.
        
        In any event, even if this means we can’t sign Halladay next winter as a free agent, not having him at all is still a much better option than trading good pieces for him. And now, he’s also not on a team that can hurt us.
    - IRememberCelerinoSanchez
      
      “Bucholz had a ton of potential”
      
      So does Joba and Hughes. And if potential meant stardom, the Yankees would be thinking about going to arbitration with their All-Star third baseman Eric Duncan.
      
      Your Dice-K argument is very funny. They won the World Series with him in 2007! That means tons! I guess that means the Yanks should get Bobby Kielty for the DH spot. The Sox won with him, too! And it’s hard to say a guy had a great season when he walked 94 guys in 167 innings with a WHIP of over 1.3. Dice-K still hasn’t had a year I’d want from a pitcher on my team.
    - KK
      
      So the Yankees let go of a $5million sinkerballer who was proven in NY for a $20million sinkerballer whose track record is from the NL?
- Zack
  
  Imagine, Beckett is always hurt, Lackey had elbow issues 2 years in a row, and DiceK missed all season…ouch
J. Pomales

A new winning team in the AL West thank god i was tired of seeing the angels in the playoffs nd as for the Phillies yeah theyll have that division for quite a long time sorry for the mets they need a world of changes.
Hova

Doc in the NL will be high comedy. We might see this guy go 30-0 next year.

Added bonus of not having Doc in the AL East anymore – another blow to the Mets.
aj

Good thing the podcast wasn’t recorded yet. This news just erupted.
JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

In a related story, mryankee has been seen drinking from a bottle of 151, muttering possible (read: imaginary) trade proposals for Nolan Ryan and Albert Pujols. His superiors at the United States Parcel Service could not be reached for comment.
- jsbrendog
  
  nicely played
- Zack
  
  Fire Cashman, let Royals hire him since he wants to trade all the veterans and grow prospects
  /
- Steve H
  
  Poor mryankee.
Mike Pop

This is fun to see. Ken Rosenthal called this.
- JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
  
  People living in tree houses shouldn’t throw cookies. Wait, that’s not how the phrase goes…
jsbrendog

the big Z in seattle is making his mark. Only question is what happens when lee bolts after the season? that cant help them sign felix.
- Lanny
  
  Well the only thing that will help is money. And they got it.
IRememberCelerinoSanchez

This is a win-win-win for the Yanks. Maybe even a win-win-win-win. Wait, maybe even a win-win-win-win-win.

Win #1: No Halladay to the Sox. Halladay, instead, in the N.L. Lackey is not a difference maker in Boston.
Win #2: Angels weakened by losing Lackey.
Win #3: Lee doesn’t end up in the division (like Toronto) either, going out West where we only play the Mariners 6 to 10 times.
Win #4 (possible): The Yanks don’t empty the farm system/young players coffers for Halladay. (Jesus stays!)
Win #5 (possible): The Yanks don’t tie themselves up in another long-term deal by signing Lackey.

Short of sending Halladay to Pittsburgh, Lee to Sand Diego and Lackey to Washington, this is the best case scenario for the Yanks.
- Steve H
  
  Agreed. And I think it’s win-win-win-win-win. #4 and #5 are #1 and #2 for the long term future of the Yankees. 1,2,3 are good for the 2010 Yankees. Though I don’t want to see Seattle in the 1st round (or any round)
  - JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
    
    Seattle could definitely win a short series with Felix and Lee. That’s terrifying. Still, that lineup is still piss-poor. Only Ichiro scares anyone (including Figgins).
    
    I think the Phillies merely marginally upgraded from Lee to Halladay, so that doesn’t change too much for now. Boston getting Lackey I think gives them a bit of an edge in the rotation. Lackey, while overrated, is a solid #2. He’s much more consistent than AJ, and I think the edge of Beckett vs. Andy would go to Boston. The 4,5 starters a push with Bucholz and Gyro paired up against Joba and Hughes. CC >Lester. Still, I think they’re better 1-3 than we are NOW. Hughes or Joba could certainly step up and be very, very good players. We’ll see.
    
    /ramble
- toad
  
  I think this is too optimistic.
  
  Win #1: No Halladay to the Sox. Halladay, instead, in the N.L. Lackey is not a difference maker in Boston.
  
  Halladay out of the East helps the Sox as much as it does the Yankees. Where’s the big gain? And I don’t know what a “difference-maker” is, but Lackey will strengthen the Sox.
  
  Win #2: Angels weakened by losing Lackey.
  
  OK, but see above,
  
  And if Seattle wins the West because they got Lee then a weaker Angels team is of no help to the Yankees at all. The question is how strong the 2010 Western champion will be, not how strong the Angels will be.
  
  Win #3: Lee doesn’t end up in the division (like Toronto) either, going out West where we only play the Mariners 6 to 10 times.
  
  He’s not in the division now. Besides, we might have to face him instead of Lackey in the ALCS.
aj

Alright so we trade for Pujols, move Teixeira to Third, move A-Rod as permanent DH. Then we get Hanley Ramirez for brett gardner, and move Jeter to Left. Then we trade ramiro peña for Felix Hernandez. Not to mention we get Mauer for a few prospects and sign him to a huge extension. NOW we got something going..
JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

The prospects will determine the real victors and losers of this deal.
- http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
  
  Agreed.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

Please please please let this not be ‘WTF CASHMAN WHERE THE FUCK IS JOHAN’ part two.
Mike bk

3:17pm: In an article, Heyman notes that Halladay’s extension “is expected to be a formality.” He appears certain that an agreement has been reached on a Phillies/Jays/Mariners deal that will net the Phils Halladay. Lee’s agent Darek Braunecker hasn’t heard anything, tweets Tyler Kepner of the New York Times.

if the phils net roy for basically just cliff and have him locked up long term it’s not a bad deal for them at all. if they have to give up one of their big 3 prospects then it becomes worse.
- Tank the Frank
  
  I agree. It all depends on what the Phils gave up in prospects. I would be surprised if they had to give up any top prospects.
  - Mike bk
    
    if that is the case then really they dealt the crap they gave cleveland for lee for roy.
mr yankee

Hey I am ok with these developments. I dont understand what Cashman is doing by letting Matsui walk. However maybe Adam Dunn is a trade possibility. However if the sox spin off and trade for Adrian Gonzalez I doubt you will all be so festive.
- Andy in Sunny Daytona
  
  “You’ll rue the day, my pretty.”
- jsbrendog
  
  However maybe Adam Dunn is a trade possibility.
  
  he is not.
  
  However if the sox spin off and trade for Adrian Gonzalez I doubt you will all be so festive.
  
  nope still dont care. another 1b/dh on that team. good for them. youk at 3rd, a gonz at 1b vmart catching. meh. plus 2 of the 3 out of lackey beckett dice k will be injured, one of them for a good aount of time. brendogdamus has spoken
  - mr yankee
    
    How do you know Dunn is not available? What do the Yankees do at DH, Left field and whom do they add as an additional starter?
    - jsbrendog
      
      the yankees sign one of the plethora of dh options on the market instead of having to overpay in prospects for adam dunn.
    - Mike Pop
      
      Dunn could be available. But the Yankees won’t trade for him.
      - mr yankee
        
        Why not? who else is a better dh option? I have no idea what the hell Cashman is thinking. I dont see overusing CC-AJ-AP is going to work two years in a row. Now if they sign Sheets I would be happy with that. You cannot tell me that they are going to have Phil and Joba be fulltime starters next year.
        
        jsbrendog
        
        I have no idea what the hell Cashman is thinking.
        
        good. because if you did he would probably have been fired if you two thought similarly
        
        mr yankee
        
        Ok so what is the plan. I mean my idea of adding Sheets and Dunn is a bad one right? What is the plan then? your chief rival just added a vey good starting pitcher, the best pitcher in the league is now traded. what is the plan?
        
        jsbrendog
        
        the plan is you won the world series and it doesnt matter what your “rival” does and you dont trade prospects for a dh when there are mroe than enough options on the market.
        
        i have said nothing against sheets.
        
        re. lax.
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        Ok so what is the plan.
        
        Here’s the plan:
        
        STOP DEMANDING THAT TRADES BE MADE.
        
        We’re going to assemble a roster that will be championship caliber. It will be done through modest free agent pickups.
        
        Trades will not be made.
        
        Deal with it.
        
        mr yankee
        
        Ok who is the DH available that is as good as Matsui. I wont even say Dunn who replaces Matsui’s production.
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        You want a DH?
        
        Left fielders
        Garret Anderson (38) – Type B, not offered arb
        Marlon Anderson (36)
        Jason Bay (31) – Type A, offered arb
        Emil Brown (35)
        Marlon Byrd (32) – Type B, offered arb
        Jack Cust (31)
        Johnny Damon (36) – Type A, not offered arb
        David Dellucci (36)
        Cliff Floyd (37)
        Jonny Gomes (29)
        Matt Holliday (30) – Type A, offered arb
        Reed Johnson (33)
        Ryan Langerhans (30)
        Laynce Nix (29)
        Greg Norton (37)
        Wily Mo Pena (28)
        Jeremy Reed (29)
        Gary Sheffield (41)
        Cory Sullivan (30)
        Fernando Tatis (35) – Type B, not offered arb
        Marcus Thames (33)
        Randy Winn (36) – Type B, not offered arb
        
        Center fielders
        Alfredo Amezaga (32)
        Brian Anderson (28)
        Josh Anderson (27)
        Rick Ankiel (30)
        Rocco Baldelli (28)
        Marlon Byrd (32) – Type B, offered arb
        Mike Cameron (37) – Type B, not offered arb
        Endy Chavez (32)
        Coco Crisp (30)
        Darin Erstad (36)
        Jeff Fiorentino (27)
        Ryan Freel (34)
        Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
        Reed Johnson (33)
        Scott Podsednik (34)
        Jeremy Reed (29)
        
        Right fielders
        Ryan Church (31)
        Jack Cust (31)
        Jermaine Dye (36) – Type A, not offered arb
        Brian Giles (39) – Type B, not offered arb
        Jonny Gomes (29)
        Gabe Gross (30)
        Vladimir Guerrero (35) – Type B, not offered arb
        Eric Hinske (32)
        Geoff Jenkins (35)
        Austin Kearns (30)
        Jason Michaels (34)
        Xavier Nady (31) – Type B, not offered arb
        Randy Winn (36) – Type B, not offered arb
        
        Designated hitters
        Hank Blalock (29)
        Jack Cust (31)
        Jason Giambi (39)
        Vladimir Guerrero (35) – Type B, not offered arb
        Aubrey Huff (33)
        Mike Jacobs (29)
        Hideki Matsui (36)
        Gary Sheffield (41)
        Matt Stairs (42)
        Mike Sweeney (36)
        Jim Thome (39)
        
        Pick one. Any one will do.
        
        http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html
        
        mr yankee
        
        Really so your ok with Jeff Fiorentino, Garrett Anderson, Jim Thome, Xavier Nady, Gary Sheffield etc those ar better than Dunn and or Matsui for 6.5 Mill. You say I have a hard on for trades. I say you have hard on for homegrown players and reducing the budget. I would be ok with trading one good arm for Dunn. I think the payoff is worth the stretch.
        
        Rod
        
        Dunn will be a free agent next season, why trade for him? Besides, the Yanks can sign Jack Cust – he’ll be fine enough at DH for a year.
        
        IRememberCelerinoSanchez
        
        “I have no idea what the hell Cashman is thinking.”
        
        Hmm. Well, he did put together a World Series championship team last year, so I think I’m going to trust him rather than you.
        
        mr yankee
        
        Again what is the plan then? Last year is dead. I have suggested a trade for Dunn and signing Sheets for one year. Now what is the pna as you see it.
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        THE PLAN IS TO NOT TRADE FOR ADAM DUNN.
        
        mr yankee
        
        Whats your problem with Dunn his contracis not that big. He will hit about 50 home runs for the Yankees next year and your telling me you would have to give up a huge package to get him? Also what is wrong with Sheets I am talking one year deal.
        
        jsbrendog
        
        THANK YOU!
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        HE.
        IS.
        UNDER.
        CONTRACT.
        TO.
        SOMEONE.
        ELSE.
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        You have the biggest hardon EVER for making a trade. There’s more DH’s on the open market than you can shake a stick at. Sign one. Doesn’t matter which one. Just sign one, and keep our prospects. Giving up a decent young arm for Dunn (and it would take at least one decent young arm, believe it) doesn’t make sense.
        
        mr yankee
        
        So by that rationale The yankees should not trade for anyone. I guess it wont bother you if Chapman goes to Boston as well. Granderson was under contract as well was that a bad move?
        
        jsbrendog
        
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        Tank the Frank
        
        This is such awesomeness. I applaud your effort.
        
        jsbrendog
        
        this predates the oaktag ha. i retired it after it got way too overused fro cutting and pasting but it was so appropriate currently
        
        bkight13
        
        If healthy Troy Glaus could be nice. He would DH and could spell Arod or Tex.
  - aj
    
    Yeah who cares..just another 40HRs added to a team that needs it. You know its not necessary to overreact and its not necessary to completely not care.
  - Mike Pop
    
    Come on. Please. If the Sox went and spun a trade for Gonzalez, that would be call for concern as they would become a much better team. Probably as good as the Yankees.
    
    Let’s not act like that wouldn’t matter.
    
    Right now, I have no worries. If they go out and get Adrian, I still have no worries – just would recognize Sox became a MUCH better team.
    - jsbrendog
      
      they would yes. but I would not be worried any mroe than I am if they traded for a gonz because think about it, they wil l have to give up something from their ML roster. So if it is bucholz, what else? it wont be just him and prospects. that weakens their rotation. there is no scenario is ee where they trade for him and make themselves that much better without weakening another aspect of their ML club
  - Tank the Frank
    
    Dude. Youkilis, AGon, and VMart as your 3, 4, 5 is not ‘meh.’ Pretty formidable IMO.
    - jsbrendog
      
      http://riveraveblues.com/2009/12/halladay-set-to-join-phils-in-three-team-blockbuster-21307/#comment-717820
      
      they would also have to have a replacement level lf to replace bay, drew is a yr older and had back issues last yr, scutaro is due for a regression to the mean, and 3rd is a muuuch mroe demanding position than 1b, cna youk hold up?
      - Hey ZZ
        
        I also am waiting to see a guy who has caught a total of 140 games the past 2 years be their full time catcher. Additionally I remember hearing when Boston traded for VMart that he does not produce as well when he catches more
        
        jsbrendog
        
        bingo
        
        Zack
        
        im ready to see thoes 5,6,7,8 SB games
        
        lebigyank
        
        praise mo
    - mr yankee
      
      You cant say that in here, because Joba and Phil are Koufax(right handed version) and Drysdale reincarnated. That whole 6.5 Million for Matsui was way to much to match I guess
      - IRememberCelerinoSanchez
        
        Can you produce one link to one post where anyone said that Joba and Phil are Koufax and Drysdale? One. Just one. That would be cool.
      - DP
        
        I was thinking more of a Randy/Schilling comparison myself.
    - Salty Buggah
      
      Yes, but the Yanks offense will still be at least as good.
- Zack
  
  how can you be ok with these developments? we’re not the KANSAS CITY ROYALS
  - JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
    
    Oh boy!
- http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ
  
  Gonzalez isn’t going to the Sox. It’s a pipe dream from NESPN. However I am concerned that this may mean a rotation DH slot. Hopefully my fears are unfounded but I’d really rather have an established DH.
- Salty Buggah
  
  Meh, I wont mind. They would literally have to trade the farm for him. Seriously. They will have to give up like 5-6 top prospects.
  - jsbrendog
    
    exactly. it will take more to trade for a gonz than it wouldve for halladay. SD will not give him away
bonestock94

Head = exploded

Figures the sickest hot stove day would come on the eve of my two hardest finals.
- SamVa
  
  amen
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

At this point I see the Mariner’s being a better team than the Angels.
- Steve H
  
  Definitely. And they likely still have money to spend, as Lee is cheap this year. They could still add a bat.
Steve H

So Halladay won’t hit the market next year, but Beckett might based on these developments. I would guess Lee will as well, didn’t sound like there is any extension discussions with Lee and Seattle.

Halladay in the NL=Unreal
Lee in Seattle with that defense=Unreal
crapula

What’s funny about all this is that Yankee fans are just feeling bemused by it all and not threatened by any of it. Fan Confidence=off the charts.

Though I would feel better if Mats was back.
- mr yankee
  
  Things will change very easily first seris of the year in Fenway. I hope Phil and Joba are as good as Cashman thinks they are and if so then great. I just cannot see him letting Lackey go to the sox and Halladay to the Phillies and Matsui to the Angels and doing nothing else.
  - Tank the Frank
    
    Except of course adding Mark Teixeira, CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Nick Swisher and Curtis Granderson (and counting) over the last two offseasons. It’s not like the Yankees have stood by watching everyone else get better…they’ve been leading the pack.
    
    And I doubt Brian Cashman gives a damn about what the Phillies do or if the Angels replace their full-time DH with ours.
    - mr yankee
      
      The guy was a ws MVP, Matsui is not an easy hitter to replace unles you get Adam Dunn or someone of that caliber.
      - jsbrendog
        
        anyone can be a ws mvp. dh’s that cant field are replaceable, nto always easily, but they are.
        
        IRememberCelerinoSanchez
        
        +1
        
        Past WS MVPs have included:
        
        Bucky Dent
        Gene Tenace
        David Freakin’ Eckstein
        Pat Borders
        Scott Brosius
        
        I could go on …
        
        http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        Mike Lowell, David Eckstien, Scott Brosius, John Wetteland, Pat Borders, and Ray Knight:
        
        All World Series MVP’s.
        
        The award: worthless.
      - DP
        
        Jermaine Dye was a WS MVP, maybe we should get him?
    - Andy in Sunny Daytona
      
      …oh yeah, and they won the World Series.
- http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ
  
  Well the Yankees had a 8 game lead over the Sox. Lackey alone isn’t worth 8 wins. Halladay is around 6 so I’m guessing Lackey is at 4 or 5.
  
  So no the Red Sox acquisition of Lackey does not worry me.
  
  The only thing I’m concerned is the lack of a DH.
aj

Halladay just cemented a spot in my 2010 fantasy baseball rotation.
- pat
  
  So should Lee with that defense behind him.
mr yankee

So its Joba and Phil as your four and five starters huh? I hope Cashman knows something we don’t.
- Mike Pop
  
  Give me a break.
  - jsbrendog
    
    you can’t say you’re actually, honestly surprised by this
- Salty Buggah
  
  Nah, he knows something most of us do. Joba and Phil will be pretty good in 09.
  - aj
    
    We thought the same about Hughes and Kennedy in 2008.
    - Salty Buggah
      
      I knew someone would say that but its not the same thing. They have another 2 years of experience now. No more Joba Rules also. They are primed for a good year.
      - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
        
        Also: Joba the starting pitching prospect > Hughes the starting pitching prospect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kennedy the starting pitching prospect.
        
        Not only are they two years older, but one of them (Kennedy) has been replaced with a VASTLY more talented guy (Joba).
- http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ
  
  Cashman does know a lot. He knows that Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes in 2010 will likely be better than Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes in 2009.
  - mr yankee
    
    How do you figure that? I have never seen someone’s velocity drop off the radar like Joba’s have you? I have also heard more than enough concern about Hughe’s stuff as a starter. I did not make these issues up, so how do all of you know that Joba and Phill will be good enough? Also what about DH and Left field? Juan Miranada at dh and Melky in left. Is thjis going to be enough to win it all?
    - jsbrendog
      
      well, lets see, they won last yr with melky in center, and granderson is at least equal to damon and is younger and vould be better. melky in left is better defense than damon so based on granderson’s splits v lefties lets call it a wash.
      
      dh – there are many many options out there that can/have been as good as matsui.
      
      you need to calm the hell down, seriously
    - theyankeewarrior
      
      Stop basing your arguments on Mike Francesca. Do you remember the Yankees rotation coming into 2009?
      
      CC
      Wang
      AJ
      Pettitte
      Joba
      
      The Yankees got NOTHING from Wang and a so-so season from Joba. If 2010 Hughes and Joba can out-do 2009 Wang and Joba, the Yankees will be better off.
      
      Stop pretending like Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain need to pitch like F-Her or else they should be traded or cast off into the pen.
    - Tank the Frank
      
      Joba’s velo was inconsistant, it didn’t drop off the radar. It went from 93-95 to 91-93 as a starter. It’s hardly a huge drop off. He had his fair share of starts where he sat in the mid 90s and hit 96 or 97. Then he had some games where he couldn’t hit 94. It was just inconsistant.
    - Section 39
      
      What gives you the idea that we are finished signing people this post season. I can see the Yanks going after Cameron and Damon which would be a great combination of OF and DH spots. Good rotation to keep everyone health. We can trade Gardner since he is essentially useless until the rosters expand really. We would have Swisher, Granderson, Cameron in the OF regularly with Melky backing them up. Damon would be DH for most of the time but could move into LF occasionally. Granderson is out vs LHP with Cameron in CF and Melky in LF. Great OF combo.
      
      Then sign Capps and Sheets for the pen and rotation we have plenty of depth to beat up the Sox with.
      
      BRING IT ON!
    - Chris
      
      I have never seen someone’s velocity drop off the radar like Joba’s have you?
      
      Justin Verlander.
      
      http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=8700&position=P&pitch=FA
      
      And after a drop for 1.5 years, it recovered. I’m guessing that this is much more common than people believe, and accounts for a lot of the ‘sophomore slump’ that you see in young pitchers.
    - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
      
      Joba Chamberlain’s velocity chart:
      
      http://www.fangraphs.com/fgraphs/2692_P_FA_20091004.png
      
      That’s nothing more than moving from the bullpen to the rotation.
      
      Calm down.
      - Chris
        
        Actually, it’s more than that. His velocity has been down about 3 MPH since his injury in August 2008. It’s not the end of the world like he suggests, but it’s real and it’s been pretty consistent.
        
        JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
        
        All kinds of THIS. I’ve been beating the injury-related drum for a while. Thank you, Chris.
- Zack
  
  You’re correct.
  
  Cashman knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>> your knowledge
  - http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Archimedes Torquemada
    
    That’s not enough.
    
    Cashman could have a massive stroke and still run intellectual laps around mryankee.
- vin
  
  Yeah, that they have the ability to handle major league hitters, and they will pay huge dividends for years to come.
  
  Having said that, I’d still like to see a Ducscherer signing – create a 3 way competition, with the loser going to the pen and serving as the 6th starter.
- JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
  
  I hope Cashman knows something we don’t.
  
  He wouldn’t be very good at his job if that were the case.
- Steve H
  
  He knows a ton that you don’t.
- ClayBuchholzLovesLaptops
  
  Microwave, burrito, etc.
- Yankee1010
  
  How about a shit ton more? Is that sufficient?
vin

This makes me very happy.

Halladay is a marginal improvement over Lee for the Phils (he’s a better pitcher, but Lee was fantastic last year). They’ll benefit over the long haul, but we already beat them with Lee pitching his balls off, the result probably won’t change with Doc.

However, perhaps one of the biggest areas where Doc is an improvement over Lee is that I can absolutely see Doc pitching on short rest in the playoffs. He’s only done it 7 or 8 times before, but he seems like he’d be able to handle the workload. CC pitching 3 times in a 7 game series is a MASSIVE advantage that few teams can match.
- aj
  
  Well to be fair i didn’t expect the Sox to just sit around and do nothing.
A.D.

While obviously Halladay > Lee, I don’t necessarily get the Phils desire to spend more money & prospects on somewhat of an unnecessary upgrade.
- http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ
  
  Yeah it’s hard to completely destroy even more than what Lee has done with the Phils.
  - jsbrendog
    
    roy can haz total domination
    - pat
      
      ietc.
  - Steve H
    
    But they are locking up Halladay. If they didn’t give up too much in prospects, I can see the deal making sense. And I know Lee has been great the last few years, but Halladay is definitely better.
ARX

So…no more drawing Halladay nearly every time we play the Jays no matter the time of year or permutation of the schedule? I’m so disappointed. Though if I were the Phillies I would have tried to keep Lee as well. Poor NL, Halladay is going to rip through them like he was pitching in AAA.
- aj
  
  He’ll tear into them like a Kleenex at a snot party.
Reggie C.

This came together so fast. I’m gonna go ahead & say that Lackey’s old news now. ominous for the red sox.
Steve H

Since this has been such a huge news day, lets cap it off with a Sheets signing. Healthy Sheets>>>>Lackey anyway, and cheaper. And with Hallday out of the division, sign Sheets, worry about a DH later (cheap).
- Hughesus Christo
  
  A healthy Sheets is more unrealistic than a GG Matsui.
  - Tank the Frank
    
    Sheets is fine with me. Let him pitch 120-140 innings, blow his elbow out, thank him for his time and be done with it.
  - Steve H
    
    Yeah. Sure.
- Lanny
  
  Seems they have major worries about Sheets’ personality and ability to mesh in the clubhouse.
  - Steve H
    
    Have CC weigh in on that as well as our future LF Cameron. They’ve both played with him, they know what he’s about.
    
    Oh yeah, and who cares? Good baseball players win baseball games. Bad baseball players, no matter how nice they are, do not.
aj

Positive news, they did sign him for FIVE years. THat’s a lot.
- Tank the Frank
  
  Travel back in time to last year and tell that to Cashmoney about AJ Burnett.
  
  I keed, I keed!!
  
  But seriously.
  - aj
    
    I agree way too many years for Burnett too. Damn market.
    - Hey ZZ
      
      Yanks do not win the WS w/o overpaying for Burnett last year
      - Steve H
        
        Yeah, it’s one of those deals that it’s ok to make, but it’s a bad contract, not necessarily a bad signing. Same think with Lackey for the Sox. All they had to give up was money and years, it’s worth it to the Sox.
Jake H

Good move for the M’s and Phillies(if Roy was going to sign shorter term deal then Lee).

I’m glad the Yanks won’t be trading Montero now for him. Also from all reports the Jay’s demands from the Yanks hadn’t come down. I doubt he was ever going to be a Yankee unless the Yanks really gave up a ton.

I think we will see how good the trade was for the Jays when we see which prospects were sent.
Salty Buggah

Saying dumb shit like mryankee #willgetyouslapped

/Twitter Trend’d
- Tank the Frank
  
  @SaltyBuggah IETC
DH=Dime a dozen

Btw, Imagine How dominant Doc will be in AAAA I mean the NL East???
- vin
  
  Well, he will be pitching in a much smaller ballpark… but yeah… he’s gonna dominate nonetheless.
  - DH=Dime a dozen
    
    I dont think a 25 win season is out of the question
    - Mike Pop
      
      Really doubt it. So many things have to go right for that.
      - vin
        
        Yeah, winning 25 is just as much about luck, as it is dominance. There have been some great pitching seasons in which the starter never got to 25 wins.
        
        http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/ByzCf
    - Steve H
      
      I remember a lot of people saying that when Unit came to NY to get some run support. Obviously Halladay is going to an upgraded offense in the easier league, but no one has gotten 25 wins since Bob Welch right? That’s a long time, and a lot of dominating pitching seasons in between.
      - DH=Dime a dozen
        
        Hes playing for the Only American league type team in a league full of pansies. I know its unlikely but this is the most likely as it ever will be
        
        Steve H
        
        But that AL type team only won 93 games last year, it’s not like they ran roughshod over the league. They were 17-19 against Atlanta and Florida last year. While it’s a league full of pansies, they are probably King Pansy, even though they didn’t even win the most games last year.
        
        DH=Dime a dozen
        
        very true.
        But up until the trade deadline they didnt have Lee. Next yr a full season from Doc should only add to that total
    - Zack
      
      only if he has 25 CG
      - Steve H
        
        Yeah, that’s the Brad Lidge factor.
        
        But, is 15 cg’s out of the question? I don’t think it is.
Salty Buggah

JimBowdenIV: Source: Toronto getting Phil Aumont and Dominic Brown in 3-way Halladay/Lee deal involving SEA/PHIL and TOR
- Steve H
  
  Sounds like Bowden may have skimmed a prospect or two off the top.
  - Salty Buggah
    
    Yea, I think so too. That’s not enough for Toronto
    - Jose
      
      Phil Aumont is a legitimate pitcher. He throws a great sinking pitch. This year in the WBC he escaped a bases loaded no out situation by striking out Youkilis and Granderson, and getting Wright to hit a soft liner. Let’s wait a little bit before we call this not a good enough haul.
      - Mike bk
        
        aumont is strictly a reliever now. he could be a very good closer, but being a reliever hurts his value.
        
        Jose
        
        My point is, until we know the full details of the trade, we can’t really judge it for any of the involved parties.
- Salty Buggah
  
  jonmorosi:
  
  Source says Aumont (from SEA) and M. Taylor (from PHI) among players heading to TOR.
  - Mike bk
    
    if Philly gave up any of Drabek, Taylor and Brown + lee to get roy amaro did badly.
Salty Buggah

Halladay: 18-6 career record against the Yanks with a 2.84 ERA over 37 games

Lackey:5-7 career record against the Yanks with a 4.66 ERA over 16 games.

Advantage: Yankees
- Evil Empire
  
  /high five
Michael Kay

Ummmmm…..errrrr……uhhhhhhh (reaches for updated “Irrational Response Flash Card”)

HOW COULD THE YANKEES LET THE RED SOX SIGN LACKEY?! THEY JUST HANDED THE WORLD SERIES TO THEM FOR THE NEXT 12 YEARS!
- Mike Pop
  
  IETC
- http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ
  
  I see that being more Francesa-ish.
  - Michael Kay (Michael Kay is not affiliated with the YES broadcaster or Diane Keaton’s character in The Godfather 1 & 3)
    
    sorry, wasn’t imitating Michael Kay, I have made the necessary name change.
    
    that was more a suggestion for the Yankee fans that were ready to jump off a bridge at the news that the Red Sox were “aggressively pursuing Halladay” like 2 weeks after The Yankees WON THE WORLD SERIES.
    - http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ
      
      Oh yeah I understand. I thought it was a mock on Kay but yeah there are a lot of fans jumping off the bridge.
      
      The offseason ain’t over yet. There’s still alternative, equally good and cheaper moves to be done.
    - cheddar
      
      Never ask me about my business, Michael Kay.
    - JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
      
      Just a quick heads up: you may want to shorten the username. I hear it slows things down a bit when it’s that long.
      
      /heard it through the grapevine
theyankeewarrior

The Yanks are still ahead of the curve in terms of their talent overall compared to the Sox, Angels, Mariners, Tigers, Twins etc.

This is what I would like moving forward:

** 2 of Damon/Cameron/Matsui (Godzilla isn’t officially gone yet)
** 1 of Deuchserererrerserer/Sheets
** 1 cheap veteran pen arm for some insurance that wont cost us a pick

That should max the Yank’s spending out somewhere around 205 mill

#28 here we come
- Evil Empire
  
  Sounds about right, except I think we only need one of Dameronsui
DH=Dime a dozen

“The Angels’ one-year, $6.5 million deal with Hideki Matsui is as “good as done,” according to Yahoo! Sports’ Tim Brown.”

/Shocked
- http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ
  
  Consider me in the sign Damon and Cameron boat now.
  - Scooter
    
    If Bay goes to the Mets, then Matt Holliday’s market is St Louis and ????
    
    Gotta think Cashman might kick the tires on Holliday – would 4/$72 knock St Louis out?
    
    And would Cashman ask for permission to go outside the budget if this were possible?
    
    O/w I would sign up for Damon (@2/20) and Sheets and call it a day
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ

Oh boy step in a Yankee community outside of RAB and what you will see will not be pretty.
- JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
  
  TYU is solid. But if you go to a MLBTR or ESPN, you’re right.
  - http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090810&content_id=6355462&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy JobaWockeeZ
    
    Oh my bad. A place not headed by anyone who frequents RAB.
    - JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
      
      I hear ya. Just sayin’.
  - Tom Zig
    
    the NY Post and NY Daily News comment sections are always enjoyable. When I’m feeling down, I read what the crazy people over at those places write and I get a good laugh and instantly feel better.
    - JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
      
      Those are great. People come up with outlandish shit. “We should get rid of A-Rod because he’s not a TRUE Yankee. Robinson Cano doesn’t care about baseball. Andy Pettitte should be locked in a jail cell for taking PEDs. Melky can’t read in ANY language. Steinbrenner should sign the top 5 FAs EVERY year. Trade all of our prospects for aging veterans and have a payroll at $600 million every year.”
      
      Now, I want you to imagine that, backed up with a logic process most resembling the fusion of the mind of a 14-year old girl and some farmer fuck in North Dakota.
      
      Yeah, it gets dicey.
      
      Thank Mo for RAB. Where would we be without it?
- DP
  
  I refuse.
Mike bk

Source: Toronto getting Phil Aumont and Dominic Brown in 3-way Halladay/Lee deal involving SEA/PHIL and TOR

if this is right then Philly was not smart
- Lanny
  
  Lee obviously wanted to test the FA market.
Mark

Still can’t get over what a blunder it was to let Matsui, our third best hitter, go to the Angels for the amount of cash we’ll be paying Mitre and Igawa next year.

Ugh
- Hey ZZ
  
  Is there anything more annoying than when people put things like “ugh” at the end of their posts.
  
  Is there not something more intelligent to say rather than sounding like a girl who just got her period?
  - Hey ZZ
    
    Or alternatively so I do not offend the ladies, a guy whose wife just told him she thinks he should get a vasectomy
theyankeewarrior

What do you prospect nerds think about the guys going to TOR???
- Evil Empire
  
  I dunno. Its hard to explain things like that to you ignorant dumbasses.
  
  Ask a little nicer next time.
  - SteveD Fla
    
    ok, I will ask. For those of you who are more informed whats the deal with the prospects?? Good, very good, no so good?
  - theyankeewarrior
    
    Woah, I thought your kind took labels like those as compliments? Hmm, let me try again.
    
    To the readers of the RAB community who have in-depth knowledge of numerous 18-22 year old male baseball players scattered across the globe:
    
    What do you think about the prospects going to TOR??
    - DP
      
      http://www.google.com
      
      I think you’ll find something.
  - Mike Pop
    
    Little harsh.
    - Winston Wolf
      
      If I’m curt with you, it’s because time is a factor…
- Mike bk
  
  there better be more than just Aumont and Brown/Taylor
  - Jake H
    
    I would agree. Aumont didn’t start a game this last year and was in the bullpen.
  - Will in NJ
    
    3:56pm: Rosenthal and Morosi write that pitcher Phillippe Aumont of the Mariners and outfielder Michael Taylor of the Phillies are among the players heading to Toronto in the trade.
    
    They are not the only ones.
- Steve H
  
  /says Pat Benatar.
Granderslam

Is Holliday a possibility for the Yankees? I wouldn’t mind Sheets/Duchscherer and Holliday. Especially since Crawford might sign an extension with the Rays.
- Steve H
  
  I’d guess a very slight possibility, though it probably means the end of Swisher.
  - DP
    
    Why would it mean the end of Swisher? I never get this thinking, apparently any transaction we make signals the end of Swisher.
  - Tom Zig
    
    Why would it mean the end of Swisher?
  - Granderslam
    
    I actually don’t agree with that. I think that Gardner or Melky would go then. Swisher has more versatility because he can DH occasionally. I don’t think they would keep one of Melky/Gardner and get rid of Swish. But then again…who knows.
  - pat
    
    Why? Holliday could play LF.
    - Granderslam
      
      An OF with Holliday, Granderson, and Swish is much better (IMO- offensively) than an OF of Holliday, Granderson, and Melky. I don’t think Swisher is going anywhere.
      - JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
        
        Doesn’t mean that’s a good allocation of resources or payroll flexibility. We don’t need Holliday.
    - Steve H
      
      I think for financial reasons it would mean the end of Swisher, not any on field reasons. If they sign Holliday for 18 mil, I think they look to pare payroll elsewhere, and Swisher is moveable at $8 mil. I don’t condone it, I am VP of the Swish fanclub, but I think that’s what would happen.
      - pat
        
        Well u could save some loot by using Miranda/a resting old guy (Po/Jeet/Arod)as DH.
        
        Steve H
        
        Ehhh, Anything that gets Pena/Cervelli regular AB’s is a bad idea. Again, I’m not saying this is what I want, but I think that would be the case. I’d rather stick with Swish, get a cheap DH, and Cameron/Damon.
- Drew
  
  I hope not. Let ’em bat 4th in Boston.
dkidd

bill bavasi points at jack z and says in adam sandler’s baby voice:

he’s good
Mike bk

this trade sounds like it is going to get a lot bigger. talk of scott downs to philly. overbay to toronto.
- pat
  
  Isnt Overbay already on Toronto?
  - Mike bk
    
    sorry seattle.
    - Justin
      
      Any links on the trade expanding?
ShuutoHeat

Wow,possible major power shift in the AL West?
Drew

Sweet. This means we don’t have to face Halladay 4-6 times a year! WOOT!

Also, Cliff Lee is going to kill it in Seattle. Big park and speedy MoFo’s in the outfield.
- Steve H
  
  Halladay and Lee early favorites for Cy Young, that’s for sure.
  - chriskeo
    
    Well two way battle in the AL between two Toronto pitchers: King Felix and Cliff Lee.
    - Tank the Frank
      
      Say whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
    - Drew
      
      No idea.. Maybe he meant Halladay and Lee, mistaking Lee’s start in Montreal for Toronto?
      - Amol
        
        I’m pretty sure he meant a two way battle between two Seattle pitchers.
Januz

The next likely move will be Bay to the Mets, then either Holliday or Damon to the Yankees. If the Yankees end up with Holliday, they could end up with <110 wins.
- Drew
  
  Uh, I think they’ll end up with less than 110 wins no matter what. Holliday would put them under the top though.
- tim randle
  
  we could also end up with less than 110 wins by cutting arod and tex, but i dont know if that saves us any money…
Will in NJ

Aumont is the prototypical power pitcher. Massive frame (something like 6’7 225). Mid to upper 90’s fastball with late movement, decent curveball. The M’s moved him to the pen, and he seemed to adapt to it decently this year.

Taylor is a very toolsy OF whose ceiling is basically jayson werth’s year this year.

If I were a Phils fan, I’d rather part with Taylor than Brown. Just my 2 cents.
- Mike bk
  
  no one is going to disagree w brown>Taylor, but when you could have had roy for taylor and drabek and you threw in lee instead. i understand maybe it is about future salary, but with lee and roy even for 1 year you are the favorite to win it all and then at worst you collect the picks for lee next year.
  - Will in NJ
    
    Doug Drabek had compromising pictures of amaro and blackmailed him into keeping his son on the Phillies. That’s my guess.
Mike bk

so the next shoe is what, Lowe to the Angels?
- jsbrendog
  
  interesting. what else can they do at this point?
  - Mike bk
    
    well if the mets were smart they would try to get them for johan in a time a desperation. Weaver, reckling, bourjos maybe Conger.
- DP
  
  Mike Lamb to the Pirates.
Johan Iz My Brohan

Just got home, this day is fucking ridiculous.

I’m not at all phased by the Lackey signing, the Phillies got a slight upgrade in Halladay who will probably be with them longer than Lee, the Blue Jays still suck. Angels might get Matsui…

but the real winners here are the Mariners, Felix/Lee is a disgusting 1-2,they’ll be a playoff contender for sure if their offense holds up to its end of the bargain.
- Drew
  
  As good as Lee is, Halladay is a different level of awesome. IMO it’s more than a “slight upgrade.”
  - Mike bk
    
    i agree over a season but even Roy would be hard pressed to top the postseason lee just put up.
  - Steve H
    
    I agree. Halladay is much better than Lee, and Lee is great.
Mike bk

3:56pm: Rosenthal and Morosi write that pitcher Phillippe Aumont of the Mariners and “possibly” outfielder Michael Taylor of the Phillies are among the players heading to Toronto in the trade. They add that outfielder Michael Saunders and pitcher Brandon Morrow are “in play.” The FOX duo confirms an agreement is in place to send Halladay to the Phillies and Lee to the Mariners.

wow, talk about hedging ur bets on who is in it.

Players like Saunders would make this a much better haul for the Jays. Saunders, Aumont, Taylor and Morrow would be an excellent haul.
- Will in NJ
  
  Agreed. Can you also imagine if the M’s had drafted lincecum instead of morrow? Can’t believe they let a hometown kid like that slip through their fingers.
nycornerstones

JESUS STAYS A YANKEE !!!
Justin(Raleigh)

Mark it down. Mauer in 2010. King in 2011. All the 1 year deals we give out expire at the end of the year and then Mauer joins the fold. All is right with the world. I applaud Cash for not giving up prospects to get guys he can get in the FA market in 2010. Lee isnt resigning and neither is Mauer. Crawford is probably more than 50/50 to hit the market as well. So either massively overpay in prospects and dollars for Lackey/Halladay/Lee or wait a year and enjoy the 2009 World Series Champion Yankees purge the market for arguably one of the projected better markets in the game. Having Mauer, Crawford, Lee, Beckett, and etc in the market and BCash is just licking his chops.
nycornerstones

TRADE CERVELLI TO PIRATES GET DOUMIT SHORT PORCH CATCHER DH POSODA SIGN DAMON
- Tampa Yankee
  
  LOUD NOISES!!! I DON’T KNOW WHAT WE ARE YELLING ABOUT!!!
  - Steve H
    
    I LOVE LAMP!!!
  - vin
    
    PUNCTUATION IS FOR SISSIES
  - Yankee1010
    
    Brick killed a man.
  - JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor
    
    IDI AMIN LIKES SNICKERS BARS!!!!!!
- Yankee1010
  
  LOUD NOISES!!!!!
westcoastyanks

I’d like to see what Sheets can do in NY, but I don’t see the Yanks giving him any sort of multi-year deal for the $10M+ guaranteed that he’s asking. If they can get him on a deal with reachable big money incentives and some sort of an option then I think they go for it.

Has there been any chatter from the Yankee camp about Washburn or Escobar? Cashman has looking into trading for Washburn a couple times (not sure why, but it stands to reason that there would be some interest) and Escobar has an injury history and risk/reward possibility that reminds me of Sheets.

Also, with Matsui all but gone and talks with Damon not going well, any chance of bringing in Dye on a one-year deal to DH and play some OF against tough lefties (so that Granderson can sit)? He seems like the kind of veteran bat that would fit with what the Yanks are trying to do.
- Zack
  
  “but I don’t see the Yanks giving him any sort of multi-year deal for the $10M+ guaranteed that he’s asking”
  
  No team is giving him that
- Scooter
  
  Dye is a butcher in RF, and had an awful 2nd half offensively last year.
  http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=911&position=OF
  (and look at the seasonal splits)
  
  The bottom graph here is self-explanatory:
  http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=911&position=OF&page=0&type=full
Mike R

I’m so unclear of why the Phillie’s would ever want to give up Lee for Halladay. Granted Halladay has had quite the resume during his career, I don’t think you can shy away from the fact that Lee was simply dominant in the post-season. Halladay on the other-hand is unproven in the post-season. While this dosn’t mean he won’t have success I feel that retaining and signing Lee would of been the smartest move the Phil’s could make, but then again I’m not a Major League General Manager.. best of wishes Cliff, you definitely had our very own Yankees number this post-season.
- Johan Iz My Brohan
  
  With Roy, you are almost guaranteed a contract beyond 2010 because the Phillies would not trade unless he agreed to allow them to negotiate a contract extension first.
  
  With Lee, you may get a contract extension, and I do believe Lee would resign with the Phillies if they offered him a contract. but it’s been said that he does want to test the market.
- westcoastyanks
  
  It only makes sense if they are able to sign Halladay to an extension. Lee wasn’t going to sign a long term deal w/o hitting the free agent market. This way they have two guys (Halladay and Utley) signed long term to build the rest of the team around. It all depends on the prospects they had to give up in addition to Lee, but you can see the reasoning — especially when you factor in that the Phils are a team that only has two more seasons in its current form before it is just too expensive to keep together (Howard, Rollins and Hamels are both FA’s after ’11).
  - Steve H
    
    All that. And, Halladay is better than Lee. He just is.
    - Mike R
      
      Yah, I definitely understand that, good point guys, I sorta over-looked that. I’d definitely want Halladay if I could ensure he was going to sign a contract (which they are doing) and although I do think Lee would re-sign with Lee I guess thy don’t wanna take any chances. The only think about Halladay being “just better” than Lee is, no matter how much better he is having Halladay over Lee would have not won them a World Series. Asking or even expecting a pitcher to shut down the Yankees like Lee did is simply impossible. That being said, Halladay is definitely an upgrade, but I don’t see how valuable of an upgrade he is skill wise because when you’re that good, a little better wont be “that much” better. However, building a franchise around the still young although he is in his 30’s Halladay, and Utley seems like a good call for the Phil’s.
  - Tank the Frank
    
    …the Phils are a team that only has two more seasons in its current form before it is just too expensive to keep together (Howard, Rollins and Hamels are both FA’s after ‘11).
    
    Great point.
- Tank the Frank
  
  Especially since Lee is younger. I don’t think it’s a good deal for the Phils personally because they gave up 4 prospects go get Lee in the first place. Then they swap him for Halladay, give up (reportedly) one or two more good prospects AND sign Halladay to what is (reportedly) a deal at a reduced price.
  
  So they gave up approx. 6 prospects to sign the older (yet more accomplished) pitcher to a long-term extension. From what I understand, Lee was dead set on testing free agency so I understand their trepidation in letting him go in the open market.
  
  I guess the jury is still out. We’ll have to wait and see what exactly Philly gave up and at what price they sign Halladay.
  - mustang
    
    ‘just three years and $60MM (starting in 2011)”
    
    according to stark
    - westcoastyanks
      
      Halladay already gets $14.25M in ’09 and $15M in ’10, so if Stark is right then the Phils are on the hook for 5 years/~$90M — well below the $23M/yr rate that Santana and Sabbathia have set. Gotta give the Phils a pat on the back if that is the case.
      - westcoastyanks
        
        Sorry, bad info, Halladay gets $15.75 for ’10, so the Phils would be on the hook for 4 years/$75MM. Still a hell of a bargain, even taking into account that he had to take some discount for signing a year before he hits the market.
HC

I am interested in the low-cost, 1yr options with a view to the 2010 FA class. That being said, Dye is interesting as is Jonny Gomes- how are they in the field? They both crush LHP which will be useful when/if Granderson sits against LHP. Also, Ben Sheets, Escobar, Washburn are all interesting as back of the rotation guys.
- dkidd
  
  according to uzr, gomes is dunn-esque in the field
dkidd

roy halladay in the national league = adam sandler playing dodgeball against children
mustang

“He says Halladay’s extension would be just three years and $60MM (starting in 2011),”

Are they serious?

Merry Christmas Phillies Fans!!!
- Drew
  
  May have a vesting option for 1 or 2 years. Probably at another 20-40 mil. So he’s signed through at least 2013 at about 80 mil. It’s not especially high but considering the prospects they gave up I wouldn’t call it cheap.
  - mustang
    
    People were talking CC and Santana money wasn’t that the big cry “the prospect and 100 million + no way”.
    
    That contract seems reasonable to me.
  - Jake H
    
    Ya I saw that. I don’t want a guy for 20 million a year as a pitcher.
    - mustang
      
      Isn’t CC making like 23 million?
  - Jake H
    
    Ya I saw that. I don’t want a guy for 20 million a year as a pitcher.
Mason

Im sure this has been mentioned more than once in the 305 posts in front of mine but im not going to check them to see i it has- shame on me- anyway, what does this do for Philadelphia? Trade an Ace and prospects for an older Ace who, at the most, will probably only pick up a win or two more in a season. Great job Philly.. If anything this makes Seattle a real threat to do some damage in the AL west. All of the moves they have made have shown they are ready to compete in 2010. I applaud Seattle’s management, and even the bluejays for getting a good bunch of youngsters in return. Philadelphia is definitely the odd man out on this deal to me. Time will tell.
- mustang
  
  Read above, but a fast answer:
  
  Lee wasn’t going sign with Philadelphia.
  Halladay better than Lee.
  - westcoastyanks
    
    Also, you can bet that Halladay takes the ball in Games 1, 4 and 7 and goes the distance — that’s one game without Joe Blanton and three games without Brad Lidge.
theyankeewarrior

Vesting fucking options? Why is it that only the Yankees are forced to signing the best players to astronomical contracts?

How about 24 a season to start (because he’s worth more than CC) and 5 seasons. 5/120. What the fuck.
theyankeewarrior

I understand the prospects + contracts notion from the Phillies pt of view. But Halladay basically said well I want to win, so i’ll cut my price in half and get this deal done. Why don’t any future HOF’ers say this to the Yankees?
- westcoastyanks
  
  Pettitte definitely left money on the table the last two years.
  - mike
    
    Im not so sure about that, either. His numbers might allow him to get a deal elsewhere after this year, but he essentially is a 6 inning pitcher with an embarassment of PED in recent memory, and he whined like an old woman all year about having to prove himself again in 2009 after falling apart towards the end of 2008.
    - westcoastyanks
      
      Well, Randy Wolf just signed a 3 yr/$30M contract. I’m pretty confident Andy could have beaten that had he just wanted to sign with the highest bidder.
- mike
  
  Because Cashman is brilliant – don’t you read these posts all the time?
mike

I have to think today is a net loss for the Yanks – Lackey makes the Sox better, and with Lowell/Beltre almost a given they have certainly improved their team. Plus, I saw elsewhere they closed in on Chapman as well for $15mm.

Mariners are better, and the Halos take Matsui off the Yanks table for a few pennies – meaning Damon gets a higher ring from the Yankees when they come together. Plus, the Halos will get Lowe and likely will make the play on Bay if they trade Rivera for him.

The Jays werent going anywhere, but have a young crop of talent and lower payroll with Rios and Doc gone – meaning they could be trouble in a few years, especially if the US $ stays cheap compared to Canada – they could clean up draft picks and international guys with cheap $.

I am not dissatasfied with Cash thus far, but I see alot of good teams getting better
Mike bk

called this as soon as the lackey news came:

Rosenthal says Cameron and Sox in serious discussions with Cameron on 2 year deal
- mike
  
  Cameron/ Hermida / Ellsbury / Drew – pretty good outfield rotation, and it will make thier pitching better as well.
  
  If they get Beltre and keep Youk at 1B- thats a very tight D
JMK THE OVERSHARE’s Milton Bradley Fat Park Factor

Holy God, we need a Spillover for this thread.
mustang

I’m going to regret this but here I go.

1- The Red Sox get better by adding a #2 setting them up to get Adrian Gonzalez.
2- Another power house team to deal with is being develop Seattle with Lee and Hernandez.
3-Yankees are still looking at a 4 men rotation two of those spot being filled by TALENTED but still developing young pitchers.

Which part am i suppose to be happy about other then the fact that halladay is gone?
- mustang
  
  Sorry my bag 5 men rotation still those 2 spots?
- westcoastyanks
  
  Seriously?
  
  1. Adrian Gonzalez isn’t going anywhere, just like Hanley Ramirez and Felix Hernandez and all the other young stars linked to Boston aren’t going anywhere. Just ’cause Theo wants a guy doesn’t mean that the other team has to trade them.
  
  2. Seattle may be better, but they are far from a “power” team. How is that team scoring any runs? They’ll be a decent team with a chance to stay in the division race, making them the AL version of the SF Giants.
  
  3. Sabbathia/Burnett/Pettitte are the 1-3. Chamberlain is about as talented a #4 starter as they come. Hughes is the backup plan for the #5 spot, with a whole market of veteran arms to choose from.
  
  You should be happy that the Yanks are returning 90% of a team that just won the World Series, plus a big upgrade in CF.
  - mustang
    
    We will see about 1.
    
    I can live with 2 and 3, but I’m still not looking at today as win, win, win day for the Yankees.
  - mustang
    
    “a whole market of veteran arms to choose from.”
    
    I just seen that market #3 is in trouble again.
- mustang
  
  Oh yes Hideki Matsui is about to sign with the Angels for 6.5 !!! and fresh news “Free agent outfielder Mike Cameron is in “serious talks” with the Red Sox”
  
  oh happy day
Alan

Good Mo people, step back from the cliffs. We just won the world series and added an All-Star center fielder for spare parts and a CF with a chance of being as good as the one we got.

All of this “Cashman is teh sux” talk needs to stop. We’re not done here and we’re still returning the core of our team.
Aj

yankees or Angels sing Lee next year what do you guys think??
Aj

sign**
bonestock94

If the postseason ended today, the Yankees are still the best team in baseball. They will acquire at least 3 more players and they will be far and away the best team in baseball and the favorite to win in 2010.
- bonestock94
  
  Acquire includes resigning btw..
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