Yanks check in on Jason Bay


The Yankees’ left field options got a bit thinner yesterday when the Red Sox signed Mike Cameron. It didn’t appear the Yanks were too concerned with Cameron, however, as Johnny Damon has attracted most of the attention lately. But there’s always the chance that Damon finds a multiyear deal elsewhere, leaving the Yanks with just a couple of options. One of them is Matt Holliday, though if the Cardinals really did offer him eight years and $128 million, I’m not sure the Yankees will top that. So who does that leave them?

One left fielder who hasn’t attracted much attention from Yankees fans is Jason Bay. He had a very good 2009 season and now, a free agent for the first time, he wants the security of a long-term contract. Could the Yankees be the team to provide that? It’s doubtful, but as they do with every possible target, they’ve reportedly reached out to Bay and his agent. No offer was made, and it’s not clear if they’re even interested in Bay, beyond leverage in dealing with Damon. But, as long as the Yankees have a left field vacancy and Jason Bay seeks employment as a left fielder, we’ll probably see the two names connected.

We heard over the weekend that Bay could make a decision soon, and is thought to have a five-year offer from one team. That will probably put the Yankees out of it. As Michael Silverman notes, “Reports early yesterday suggested the Red Sox had enough medical red flags to justify not going five years for the outfielder, who had shoulder surgery in 2003 and knee surgery in 2007.” If the Red Sox, a team that knows a lot about Bay, won’t give him five years, why would the Yankees?

The only chance the Yankees sign Bay is if they think that, while he’s not the ideal candidate, he is better than the alternatives. The choices now include:

1) Matt Holliday for eight years
2) Jason Bay for five years
3) Johnny Damon for three years
4) Melky Cabrera for one year

Which would you choose?

Categories : Hot Stove League


  1. Jake H says:

    Melky for 1 year. I don’t want any of those contracts.

  2. Cameron says:

    I would have picked mike cameron but with these choices I would have to pick melky cuz at the end of the other deals they will be regretting the contract.

  3. Mike says:

    I dont have any alternatives in mind right now, but of those four options, i pick none of them.

  4. Ellis says:

    Give Brett Gardner the starting job! Please, is anyone with me?

    • Brian Paul says:

      I’m with giving Gardner a chance, but without good reason other than I like him better than Melky.

      It all depends on whether or not his major league batwork has fully matured yet, and I think most people would say that it has. Still, there’s a large part of me that hopes that, if given the chance, he improves offensively. I just don’t know if its a safe bet to have is bat as a permanent pressence in the lineup.

      His defense and speed make him more suitable for the utility outfielder role. I say keep Gardner and Melky, and interchange them.

    • Aaron from Albany says:

      he blows

    • donttradecano says:

      Um, No. Gardner cant hit enough to be a starting CF, let alone a starting corner outfielder.

    • In left field? Absolutely not.

      • andrew says:

        I don’t see why not in left field. People say his bat doesn’t play in left field, but what does that even mean? If the Yankees sign Damon, Johnson, Delgado, or somebody else to DH, Gardner would be our #9 hitter, just like he would’ve been last year. Just because he plays left field, i don’t see how that affects his production. Yes, I understand that his offense will be below average compared to other left fielders in the league, but we can’t look at the position in a vacuum. If they play Granderson in LF and Gardner in CF, it’s still the same offense as if they played Gardner in LF.

        • donttradecano says:

          Corner outfielders are supposed to have some sort of power. Even if your getting corner outfielder production from a DH, you still want your corner outfielders to perform somewhat like corner outfielders. Melky does that more than gardner does.

          • andrew says:

            Right, but if you’re getting corner outfield production from CF, and CF production from your left fielder, what’s the issue?

            • waswhining says:

              You’re confusing us with logic. Stop it. Now.

            • dudes says:


              we’re getting above average offensive production from 1b, 2b, ss, 3b, and cf.

              we can take a downgrade in lf. with melky/gardner in lf and say, delgado at dh, we still have the top offense in the league.

            • KK says:

              The issue is that you are purposefully downgrading a position just because you have a perceived advantage in a different position. It’s like saying “Oh, my Shortstop is a stud who hits .300, 30 HR and 30 Steals, so I’ll put a stump at 2B” – you don’t downgrade yourself for no reason.

  5. History Teacher says:

    PLEASE JUST KEEP DAMON! I’m so upset Matsui is gone. Bay’s average was dismal last year. I’d rather guys with playoff experience, who have long at bats and put the ball in play. I’ll take Damon all day. Any chance we can just give him a very nice 2 year deal 12-13mil per? If we loose Damon, we’re in trouble because I can’t see the point in shelling out huge amounts for Holliday (who was terrible in the AL) or Bay. Melky and Gardener, though I love them both… are NOT starters. I don’t know about this Hoffman kid. Apparently he is OK, but not great… we’ll see.


    • TLVP says:

      Your name wouldn’t be Scott would it?

    • Jake H says:

      I wouldn’t mind Damon for a 1 year deal with an option for the 2nd year. But really if he wants 3 years that is 1 year for sure too long.

      • KK says:

        Is anybody else actually bidding on Damon? His demands are a bit outrageous and other than fleeting notes that the Giants have some interest, there’s been pretty much nothing. I don’t think he’s worth much more than Matsui, so maybe a $7-8 million deal seems fair. I think I’d be a bit unhappy if he went over that.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      I don’t think anyone will disagree about wanting Damon back, but, “I don’t care what it takes!”, may be a bit over the top. They can’t commit anything past two years to Damon, IMO.

      Any my problem with Bay isn’t his BA. He’s going to hit home runs and rack up the RBI’s. My problem is his defense in left. I’d like to see the defense at the position improve and I don’t think Bay brings that to the table.

      • I don’t think anyone will disagree about wanting Damon back, but, “I don’t care what it takes!”, may be a bit over the top.

        History Teacher and “over the top” go together like peas and carrots.

      • sciorsci says:

        Couldn’t Bay, if he is indeed in the Yanks’ plans, offer the same type of situation that they’d have likely considered with Damon, that is, split time between LF and DH, basically only playing LF when Posada, ARod, Jeter, Teixeira, etc., need a day off in the field? Granted, I’d prefer Damon because I’d rather have him in the #2 spot in the order rather than Granderson, who I think would be a better fit behind the middle of the order (I’d like to see him hitting 6th, ideally, behind Posada and in front of Cano).

        But if Damon is pushing hard for three years, I can see a case being made for Bay instead – the one caveat being I wouldn’t want Bay on anything more than a four year deal, but he’s made his preference quite clear that he’s seeking a five year contract, and if the Holliday rumors are true (the 8-yr., $128M offer), Bay may actually have the leverage to get a five year offer out of somebody (Minaya, probably).

        Whether it’s Bay or Damon, though, I think the Yanks are going to have to leverage their own spending power and use AAV to keep the years where they want them.

  6. Zack says:

    “The choices now include:

    1) Matt Holliday for eight years
    2) Jason Bay for five years
    3) Johnny Damon for three years
    4) Melky Cabrera for one year”

    Still no way Damon gets 3 years

    • Steve in PDX says:

      Still no way Damon gets 3 years

      Yea, someone out there will give him 3. We’ve seen dumber moves in the past and we will continue to see them for years. But don’t worry-only the Yanks over-pay for FAs :)

  7. Doug says:

    Gimme 4) and worry about next year, next year. Allows you to retain financial flexibility going forward. If you indeed believe that the Yanks operate under a budget, the 1st 3 options severely limit their maneuverability in the future

    • Short Porch says:

      What about Melky for half a season, and bide your time waiting for a trade/salary dump before the trading deadline?

      I don’t see the stadiums filling up this year, not with this economy. Who’s a FA outfielder for 2011 who would be available for a trade mid season due to team financial constraints?

  8. Doug says:

    btw, reported that the sox officially cut ties with bay yesterday. not a real shcoker once they inked cameron.

  9. Ansky says:

    NO to Jason Bay!…I’d rather have Matsui roaming LF than Bay.

  10. The Three Amigos says:

    Melky and the best DH you can find.

    • Matty Ice says:

      the best DH we could find is now in Anaheim.

      • KK says:

        T__T Sad but true. I think Cash screwed this one up.

        Some relatively affordable options left:
        Garko, Tracy, Delgado (eew), N.Johnson, DeRosa (?), Atkins, Cust, Damon, R.Johnson, Gary Sheffield (REDUX), Marcus Thames, Baldelli, Ankiel, Dye, Vlad, Thome.

        I like Dye the best out of those options (and he can still somewhat play the outfield). Vlad is intriguing (his “terrible” season last year was still relatively average) and so is DeRosa (if he could hit consistently – he seems more like a utility player though).

        I’m probably in the minority, but I actually liked Sheffield as a Yankee. He gave them some right handed thunder, and other than A-Rod, the lineup is devoid of it. Not sure if he can still do it, but it was fun watching him take massive cuts at the ball.

  11. Out of those choices, give me #4 with a real DH. However, do we know if Holliday’s for sure going to take that deal? Would he be open to taking a shorter deal worth more money? He’s definitely an upgrade over Damon and Bay, if the cost is right.

    • A.D. says:

      Depends on the structure of the deal, it might really be a 5 year deal with a ton of vesting or team options.

      • You mean the StL deal, right? If that’s how the deal is, then, he’s gotta figure out if he wants 5/90 (or so) from the Yankees or 5/80 from the Cardinals, with the chance to make $48MM more over three years after that.

    • Double-J says:

      I tend to agree. Those other contracts will come back to bite us, even if I’d like to see Damon back. He wants too many years. Let him go in the twilight out in San Francisco. I’d like to see us sit back and wait until Carl Crawford hits the FA next year. Melky will be a decent stopgap (just like he was last year) so long as we can go out now and get a good DH.

      Right now, that seems to put Nick Johnson at the head of the class with Matsui gone, no?

  12. A.D. says:

    Jason Bay for five years

    Could be this, or, could be a situation where they go to Bay and say looks like its either the Yanks or the Mets at this point, you can go and sign a smaller contract than you want from the Mets, or you can come to the Yanks for a year, and then be a FA next year when there isn’t Matt Holliday, and the class is:

    Adam Dunn

    Note: Cuddyer and Hawpe have options, but they’re team options that have them making ~2M more than in ’10, and both team friendly, imagine they get picked up.

  13. Mike Pop says:

    As of right now, I’m on board with rolling with Melky in LF and bringing in a real DH(Johnson, Delgado, Thome, etc)

  14. Brian Paul says:

    Any chance they can get Nady on a one year, low budget, redemption contract? Granted its Scott Boras… but could that be an option?

      • Chris says:

        Not for a one year deal.

            • Chris says:

              They’re completely different scenarios. Wang is coming off another shoulder injury and is a pitcher. Nady is an outfielder coming off a second TJ surgery. Sure there are risks, but even if his arm is significantly diminished it won’t impact his value that much. As you’ve pointed out many times, an outfielder’s arm is not that important.

              • But, if his arm isn’t just “weak” but more “not capable of making hundreds of throws a year without imploding”, Nady’s not really an outfielder anymore. He’s a DH.

                And there’s better DH options.

                • Chris says:

                  I doubt that his arm would come out of the surgery worse than Damon’s….

                  The problem (and biggest risk) with his injury is that there isn’t really any track record for it. Generally when players get a second TJ surgery it’s either before they’ve succeeded in the majors or after they’ve already started to decline. It’s hard to know whether their failures are due to the surgery or a just because they were never going to make it/already too old.

                  Also, the failure rate for pitchers is pretty irrelevant here. If a pitcher loses 10% of his velocity/movement after surgery, then he’s basically done. If an outfielder loses 10% of his velocity, then he goes from having an average arm to having a weak arm.

                  All that being said, there are two things that still come into play:
                  1. How little would he accept on a 1 year deal? For $2M plus incentives it would be worth bringing him back.

                  2. How is his rehab going? The Yankees should be able to get an idea on how healthy his arm is pretty soon, which would ultimately be the deciding factor.

                  In the end, he’d basically be a fall back option that the Yankees shouldn’t look to sign until Jan/Feb. He may even represent a reasonable option as a platoon DH paired with Miranda (plus a part time OF).

  15. GeorgeInJax says:

    Out of those choices……Melky

    Look back at Bernie Williams stats and compare Melky.

    Bernie hit his stride & took a jump in production & Power his 4th full season with the Yanks. I’m not saying Melky will equal Bernie’s contributions, but he has all the tools and is still a developing player.

    Jason Bay for 3yrs might be intriguing

    Matt Holliday scares me for that long of a contract, because we’ve seen other NL players change leagues and they don’t handle the A.L. pitching as well.

  16. dkidd says:

    i’d prefer us to sign delgado/thome to 1 yr deals and pass on damon/holliday/bay. we’ll need at least one more starter in 2011 (assuming andy retires and joba/phil step up) and i’d prefer to save the $$$ for cliff lee. our line-up will score runs, even on days when melky hits 8th and cervelli 9th

  17. Mike Axisa says:

    I’d go with Melky. That’s just too many years for Holliday, Bay, and Damon. Just because there are no good options doesn’t mean you should overextend yourself for the best option at the time.

  18. GeorgeInJax says:

    Johnny Damon has been good as a Yankee, but he’s far from the guy signed in 2006. a 1 year deal certainly, an incentive laden 2 yr deal maybe. 3 yrs NO WAY.

  19. pollo says:

    Melky for 1

  20. Evil Empire says:

    Bay for 5 years = HELL NO!

    I’d like to wait out Damon until his asking price comes down to 2 years. I think that should happen. The difference between Bay/Holliday and Damon is that Bay/Holliday have actually been offered 5 & 8 year contracts, respectively. Has anyone actually offered Damon a 3 year deal?

    • Doug says:

      not sure he even has something for 2 years. actually, haven’t heard anyone offering him anything yet. think boras is just putting out feelers right now.

  21. GeorgeInJax says:

    As long as his shoulder proves to be ok, X Nady would be a nice fit too. we know he fits in with the clubhouse.

  22. Chris says:

    If you can get Damon for 2, you go with him. I like his bat better at NYS, and the three less years is also nice.

    Otherwise, you go Melky for one, and try to pick up one more player to help shore up the offense. Perhaps one of the DHs that could be had for a one year deal, or a solid utility player that wouldn’t be a giant hole in the lineup when they’re rotating A-rod/Jeter/Posada in the DH slot.

    Bay makes no sense for them. More years and money for a player that’s not really any better than Damon (at least not by enough to justify the commitment).

    • KK says:

      Solid Utility Player = Mark DeRosa. Fingers crossed

      • sciorsci says:

        DeRosa could be the key to the “rotating DH” plan that has been suggested. Whereas the rotation of DH at bats could be a problem offensively if it means giving additional at bats to the Penas, Cervellis and Gardbreras of the world, it’s not a terrible plan if DeRosa is picking up the IF/OF at bats when the regulars are in the field, taking some DH at bats himself, and also providing a RHB to cover either Granderson against a monster LHP or, if they decide to incorporate Miranda into the DH mix as well, to cover him against LHP.

        Having DeRosa as the shadow to the rotating DH plan still works better with some sort of legitimate LF, even if it’s someone like Damon or Bay that would probably play a significant chunk of time as the DH themselves.

  23. Riddering says:

    Melky. If the market really creates a situation where the Yanks would have to offer too many years for Damon, Holliday, or Bay in order to get them then the organization should stick to internal options and wait for next year.

  24. Goosemania says:

    Holliday will be way to much commitment, Melky doesn’t have a left fielders bat…. so leaves Damon and Bay. With the DH spot open I dont see the problem with offering Bay 5 years-70 million or 4 years with a vesting 5th option (or even a player/club option) the question is would you rather have Damon until hes 39 or Bay until 36? Both of them lack defense but Bay has a great bat. I think I’d go with Bay… Remember we should no longer be worried about left fielders on a one year deal considering we no longer are waiting for AJax to come up.

    • andrew says:

      Melky doesn’t have a left fielders bat

      Why not? I posted this above, but if we sign Delgado to DH, Melky woud be the #9 hitter, just like he was last year. We’d replace Damon and Matsui with Granderson and Delgado. Just because we’ve rearranged the defensive positioning doesn’t mean that our offense is worse.

      • KK says:

        Melky doesn’t even really have a center fielders bat. Why are you purposefully downgrading a position just because you *think* you have an upgrade elsewhere (99% sure it’s an upgrade, but let’s not jump to conclusions).

        If your net gain is Granderson over Damon/Matsui, I don’t think it was a spectacular offseason with just that. That would change if Cash can get a legit LF out there.

  25. TLVP says:

    One year of Melky at least if the others get the rumoured wages

    With Teix and A-Rod signed for 7 and 8 more years, you’ve blocked 1B and DH pretty far out. Do you really want to block the third of the non premium-defense position for a long time for players that frankly are no superstars. We are not talking about a Pujols, A-Rod, Teix, Manny, Barry or Vlad in their prime

  26. Mattingly's Love Child says:

    In honor of “Brewster’s Millions”, can I choose none of the above?

    How about a trade of some minor league pitchers for Joey Votto? Yonder Alonso is going to take his 1b job soon enough, and the Reds always need pitching….

    Or how about taking a flyer on Chris Young from the D-Backs? If he sucks, they could always look elsewhere mid-season or worst case put Melky back in.

    I know, I know. Generally not realistic on either fronts. But none of the listed options seem that good to me!

    • A.D. says:

      Chris Young blows, no reason to want him over Melk.

      Reds said before they’re not interested in trading Votto, and the Yanks have a 1B. He could be moved to LF, but if the Yanks can move him to LF so can the Reds, thus Alonso coming up provides no trade incentive.

      • Keanu Reeves says:

        Eh, if they could ever get Chris Young on the cheap (I mean real cheap) it’d be interesting if he could tap into some of that potential with a change of scenery.

      • Mattingly's Love Child says:

        The whole idea was a flyer, not give up much for Chris Young. He definitely has more power and more speed than Melky. Yeah he strikes out way too much, that’s why he might actually be available. Melky is more consistent, which is saying alot. Though I’d say he has higher upside than Melky.

        The trade incentive for the Reds is that they are stocked with young outfielders (Stubbs, Bruce, Frazier-most likely having to move to OF), and that they could get some SP prospects for Votto.

        But like I said, I’m not necessarily married to any of these ideas. I just would hope that Cash would think outside the box about trying to add a younger OF, even if they have to part with some prospects. Because the garbage contracts that these players want (and I don’t blame them for trying to get them), are not a good idea for the Yankees.

  27. Rick says:

    What would it take to get Crawford? Would Romine and a B-prospect get it done?

    • Doug says:

      not a chance

    • Mattingly's Love Child says:

      I’m a big fan of Crawford’s, but if the Rays want to compete for the playoffs this year it would be nuts to part with him until the season starts. Desmond Jennings is supposed to be a stud (and his replacement), but the talk is that Jennings needs more time in AAA. Until they know he’s ready, they’ll be holding on to Crawford.

    • Brian Paul says:

      Yeah the Rays are looking to extend him and build around him. Would you take Romine and a B Prospect for a cornerstone guy?


  28. donttradecano says:

    Id rather Juan Miranda in left than Bay for 5.

    • A.D. says:

      I like the idea of an Atkins, Miranda platoon at DH. Which would allow the Yanks their precious rotation DH idea as those guys can spell Tex & A-Rod.

      • KK says:

        Tex and A-Rod are both everyday players, I don’t see much value in resting them often. Especially Tex, since almost anybody you get is a giant downgrade defensively. Also, Atkins had little pop for a guy playing in Coors and is coming off a season where he hit .220. Hard to get excited.

        The point of resting players was so that Cash has an excuse to not play Posada behind the plate. I don’t think Posada’s bat is a huge advantage unless he’s catching – Signing Matsui and letting Posada sit on the bench would have been better. Posada’s stats last season showed that he’s terrible as a DH, and that he’s absolutely indefensible hitting behind A-Rod (he offers ZERO protection:

        Just a note, Robinson Cano actually does alright in the 5-hole (though not as good as he is in 2, 6 or 7). Pretty much everybody on the Yankees suffers hitting right after A-Rod.

  29. Jake H says:

    You have to take the shortest deal possible. IF you look at the Yanks, in 2013 they have 92 million invested for 4 players. They can’t have so many super long term and high $ contracts.

  30. AndrewYF says:

    Can I choose Aroldis Chapman for $20 million?

  31. Tubby says:

    I’d prefer something in the 5-6 yr range for Holliday, but I’d rather give 8 yrs to Holliday than 5 yrs to Bay or 3 yrs to Damon. Holliday is the premier player at his position. There’s no indication that he won’t perform well into his mid to late 30s. If guys like Giambi and ManRam can perform well in the last years of their long contracts, there’s no reason to think a guy like Holliday won’t do the same.

    • YankeeGaGa says:

      Did anyone actually confirm that the Cards offered 8 years?
      If they did, then Holliday HAS to sign that.

      • waswhining says:

        Yeah but 8 years in the midwest — that’s a goddamned eternity — I don’t care if you hail from Stillwater OK — five pricey years in NYC should turn his head.

  32. Greg says:

    Notice the Boston Herald is reporting the Yankees have interest the day after Mike Cameron is signed. The more Bay signs for now, the better Boston looks and the easier the fans are on the team for settling for the lesser player.

    Easiest way to drive a players price up? Say the Yanks are interested.

    I don’t believe this report.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      I believe it.

      I don’t think they ever reported the Yankees were preparing an offer or anything like that. They just said the Yankees had reached out to Bay’s agent.

      Bay is a top free agent and they’re, well, the Yankees. Of course they’re going to at least check in.

      I do agree, however, that the significance of this report may be overstated.

    • waswhining says:

      I’m with you. It’s horseshit.

  33. T-Dubs says:

    Let’s just trade for Carlos Lee to DH. Houston’s gotta be tired of contracts at this point, no?

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      I’m sure Ed Wade would do that deal for a couple of average middle relievers.

    • T-Dubs says:

      Wonder what it would take to get Adam Dunn. Do we have anything the Nats would want now that we already gave them a sparkly new closer??

      • Keanu Reeves says:

        No use to trade for Dunn when he’ll be a FA next offseason.

        • sciorsci says:

          Well, there’s the whole this season thing that presents a pretty good reason to do so. And the fact that he’s a FA next offseason might actually make for an even better reason to check in on Dunn, since you regain the flexibility to build your lineup a year from now with, presumably, better options at your disposal.

          Look, I get the whole “big picture” thinking that Cashman has been shown to employ, where he takes into account what will be available in future years. And I get the idea that it doesn’t necessarily make sense to spend resources in terms of prospects for a player that you could acquire for nothing more than money a year from now. But if the goal is to acquire a DH-type bat that would provide middle-of-the-order thump, and to do so without committing to an extended-length contract this offseason that would essentially limit the team’s flexibility going forward, why wouldn’t you at least consider the idea of trading for a rent-a-slugger? Yes, you’re giving up something in return besides just money (and it does really depend on the quality of the players that the Yankees would have to give up), but consider this: you’re essentially trading for the luxury of getting the offensive production you desire without the lengthy contract you’d like to avoid.

  34. This may seem funny, since I’ve bashed him ceaselessly over the past few weeks, but… I’m warming on Jermaine Dye.

    Let me explain.

    The reason I wanted Matsui over the other DH options (chiefly Delgado, Thome, Vlad, and Cust) is that Matsui, while a lefty, hits lefties well.

    Those other four DH fallback options listed all struggle mightily against lefties (Yes, even Vlad. Look it up.) With Miranda in the organization, a young lefty bat who has shown the ability to hit righty pitching well throughout his minor league career, I wonder if we’re looking for a righty bat who can hit lefties to handcuff him with.

    This is what lead me to Mike Cameron, who had the benefit of being a righty who mashed lefties AND great defensive ability.

    Now that Cameron’s gone, I wonder if a Dye/Miranda platoon is the best way to go at DH. Dye/Miranda collectively may outproduce Thome/Delgado/Vlad/Cust individually.

    • T-Dubs says:

      your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

      Dye @ 1/$5?
      Damon @ 1+Opt/$11?

    • YankeeGaGa says:


    • Rob in CT says:

      Nick Johnson, please.

      Between the Lf options (as presented by Joe), I’d go with Melky for 1 year over Holliday/8 or Damon/3. I’d be more comfortable doing that if I knew Johnson was the DH.

      The other option is to suck it up and go get Holliday (though 8 years? Seriously, Cardinals?) and then go cheap-o with the DH (Miranda against RHP, with some Posada and Swisher mixed in against LHP).

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      I don’t know. I’m sure you have your reasons, but Dye’s second half last season was really brutal. He had a low BABIP, so that could explain some of it, but I’m not sure he’d be worth it.

      Also not sure he’d take a job as a platooning DH when someone will probably give him the chance to play the outfield or be the everyday DH.

    • Mattingly's Love Child says:

      At first I thought you’d gone batshit insane. But looking at his numbers, it isn’t a terrible thought. But I’m not really sold on Miranda either though.

      Though he’s coming off injury, I feel much more comfortable with Delgado. Maybe it’s just that he had a hot streak right before he got hurt. And maybe it’s because ARod and Utley bounced back well after hip surgery. But he feels like a safer play to me.

    • steve s says:

      I like the offensive potential of Dye/Miranda combo but unless the Yanks remain relatively injury free how can they lock up 2 roster places with such non-versatile DH type-players?

    • Angelo says:

      Not a bad idea…

    • KK says:

      I like the way you think

    • sciorsci says:

      I’d prefer DeRosa in that case, as the RHB to handcuff to Miranda, as I outlined above. Not only does he provide solid production vs LHP, but he also offers versatility to cover some of the other positions that may require some DH at bats along the way.

  35. Reggie C. says:

    Of all those options, I’d rather let Melky man CF another season. Gardbrera wasn’t thaaaaaat bad last season; if anything, surpassed expectations a bit. Sign Delgado to DH, and do it soon. Like today. If Delgado gets snapped up by some opportunistic team, the DH market becomes Thome and then garbage.

    • KK says:

      Well, if you’re absolutely set on Melky playing in the field, he should play left since Granderson probably is the better center fielder defensively.

  36. Will says:

    Best LF to ever roam the outfield in Yankee Stadium…

  37. Coolerking says:

    Shelly Duncan all the way. If he’s not available, maybe the Yanks can coax Dan Pasqua out of retirement?

    Give me Gardbrera and then a big OF bat before the trade deadline if Damon wants anything beyond 2 years.

  38. DERN says:

    I wud rather want Matt Holliday but Jason Bay is also another good take

  39. YankeeGaGa says:

    The more I think about it.
    Damon for 2
    Delgagdo for 1
    Dush for 1
    Let’s roll.

  40. GeorgeInJax says:

    Granderson’s #’s more than replace Damon’s #’s, Melky shifts to LF

    If we go into the season with Miranda at DH there wouldn’t be a big dropoff from Matsui.

    Yes, Matsui was a very productive hitter, but he also killed a lot of drives getting on top of the ball & hitting soft grounders to 2nd.

  41. Reggie C. says:

    If Bay-Yankee rumors don’t spur Omar Minaya to up his offer, then nothing will. Mets need a major signing to appease their fans.

  42. Rick says:

    What worries me is there is basically no way the Red Sox don’t go get Adrian Gonzalez now. Lackey enables them to lock up Beckett long term and use Clay as the center piece in a deal. I feel Theo is getting the better of Cash right now. Please Cash, go get Sheets and Duchscherer and hope one hits big.

    • Will says:

      No. Stop panicking. Remember when Theo dropped the ball last year and Cash owned him. Every Redsox fan panicked then. But jsut because theyre making moves now doesn’t mean we need to panic either.

      • Rick says:

        Not panicking at all, but it appears Theo has a very clear plan. I’d rather short deals for Duke and Sheets and hope for Crawford in a year or maybe Mauer doesn’t sign an extension. Bay or Hollidy are certainly not the answers, that would be panicking.

        • Not panicking at all, but it appears Theo has a very clear plan.


          However, that plan does not include trading Buchholz + Kelly/Westmoreland/Anderson + more stuff for Adrian Gonzalez, who isn’t really even on the market in the first place. Theo’s made some good moves. A trade for Gonzalez or Miggy Cabrera is not going to be one of them, that was just a couple of batshit insane pipedreams from WEEI callers and NESN talking heads.

          • KK says:

            His clear plan is to overpay for players to make up for what was considered a “Bad” season last year – like what the Yankees did last year (the Burnett contract is sorta bad, really).

            I think it’s good if the Yankees/RedSox games are more exciting. The RedSox team last year was yawn-out-loud boring.

    • What worries me is there is basically no way the Red Sox don’t go get Adrian Gonzalez now.


      • Rick says:

        How is that false? The Padres covet Clay. The Sox now have reason to rade Clay, especially if Chapman ends up signing with them. Which is also appearing likely due to his relationship with Iglesias and the fact he was in love with Boston

        • Keanu Reeves says:

          1) Clay alone is not enough, and the Sox are said to be hesitant to give up the others (Kelly, Anderson, Westmoreland etc.) that would be necessary to get Gonzo.

          2) The Padres have given no indication that they will move Gonzalez.

          3) What reason do they have to trade Buchholz? He slots in perfectly as the 5th starter.

        • andrew says:

          How is it false? Because there is a way, in fact, that the Sox don’t get Adrian Gonzalez.

    • A.D. says:

      What worries me is there is basically no way the Red Sox don’t go get Adrian Gonzalez now.

      Except SD doesn’t appear that willing to trade him.

      Lackey enables them to lock up Beckett long term

      If anything Lackey makes it harder for them to lock up Beckett, since they have more payroll locked up & it will likely only drive Beckett’s price up.

    • Arman Tamzarian says:

      I think you mean, not lock up Beckett long term?

      • Rick says:

        No, I mean lock up Beckett. He’s still relatively young and Lester is still affordable for several more years. Further, if Halladay takes less than market value, it lowers the price on a Beckett. Look at the big picture.

        • Look at the big picture.

          If you looked at the big picture, you’d see that Boston is still loath to give up multiple good young prospects (for good reason) and that San Diego is still unlikely to move Gonzalez unless they get bowled over (which Boston isn’t likely to be willing to do.)

          This trade was unlikely before the moves that happened yesterday. It’s still just as unlikely today. Adding John Lackey does not increase the odds that Gonzalez ends up anywhere other than San Diego next year.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      What worries me is there is basically no way the Red Sox don’t go get Adrian Gonzalez now.


    • T-Dubs says:

      The way the Sox don’t get Adrien Gonzalez is he’s under contract for two more years at an AAV of around $5m. That’s insane. I would think they would the Fathers would want a king’s ransom (understandably). And if they’re making him available to the public a team for more chips than the Sox could easily jump in.

      • sciorsci says:

        There is the Boston connection, though. Just based on that, the Red Sox’ prospects might be overvalued a little by Hoyer and might make it easier for Theo to construct a package that gets it done. Not saying it will happen, obviously, but I can see how the Red Sox could possibly “outbid” other teams even if their package doesn’t appear as strong overall.

    • Tampa Yankee says:

      They just locked up a 32-yr old Lackey for 5 yrs.
      Beckett will be 30 when/if he signs an extension after this year.
      Dice-K will also be 30 after this year.
      Wakefield is ancient.
      Lester and Laptop are the only real young arms they got and last year showed them they can never have too much SP.

      Getting Gonzalez will require Laptop plus a ton as SD doesn’t need to trade him. They’ll still have a declining Ortiz, Varitek, Lowell with Scutaro and Taco Bellsbury with less talent behind them in the system. Color me not worried.

      An if signing an aging Lackey to a 5yr deal is getting the best of Cash-$ then I don’t see it. Does everyone forget the great trade Cash just pulled off a week or so ago? Get a grip people!

  43. ADam says:

    Damon will come back for 2. No one is going to give him a third year, Might be a bit more per year than what we like, but he’ll now get 2 yrs 19-22 mill.

    I ain’t worried about a thang….

  44. an says:

    I’d take a year of melky and get a DH on the market. I’m not giving bay 5 or damon 3.

  45. Roster Rooster says:

    2 words: Gabe Gross

    Great Defense in Left, Could poke out a few ones to the short porch. 1 year for him or Church is fine by me.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      He was a bench player for Tampa, so unless you’re suggesting he’ll be a bench player for the Yanks, I’m gonna say no.

      Also not a Ryan Church fan.

  46. danny says:

    i’d rather have the melkman for a year thank you very much.
    next offseason they can got for it with Crawford, pitching should be the focus right now and finding a DH. (no DH rotation please.)

  47. GeorgeInJax says:

    Ok Lets say we sign Damon for 2 yrs where will be then?

    Still having to replace an aging less productive player.

    I know our team has deep pockets but 2yrs 19-22M? That’s crazy money for what you’d get in return.

    Our stars while still productive are aging, we need to develop young guys like Melky.

    Think ahead and imagine the debates we’ll have when the Jeter/Posada/Alex deals end.

    Thank you Johnny & Hideki, but we must move on.

    • andrew says:

      Melky will still get atbats if we sign Damon unless we also go out and sign a DH, which may not be possible if they sign Damon for $22mill and they add a veteran pitcher.

    • sciorsci says:

      You’re talking about probably 80-90 games in LF for Damon if he returns, with a sizable chunk of ABs coming at the DH spot. How does that stop Melky from developing (especially since there may not be a whole lot of development left in him)? Besides, we’re talking about the New York Yankees in championship-mode – since when has that ever been about on-the-job training?

  48. Rose says:

    I do not like this Jason Bay scenario…although I am not completely angry about it either. If I had to say exactly how I felt I would say “upset to the point where I’m not angry or mad or ‘flipping out’.

    This is my opinion.

    Thank you.

  49. Crazy Eyes Killa says:

    If Damon requires 3, certainly not him…..Matt Holliday would look good in pinstripes

  50. So say it does end up as Damon for two years–do you keep Melky in LF and have Damon DH or do you put Melky on the bench and sign another DH?

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      I’m in favor of scenario #1.

    • Evil Empire says:

      If Thome is cool with, say, 400 ABs – which he very well might be – I think he works out nicely. You can still do a little bit of the rotating DH thing but the A-lineup would be stacked from top to bottom.

      Would Granderson have to bat 9th if we got Damon and Thome? Fuck.

    • do you keep Melky in LF and have Damon DH or do you put Melky on the bench and sign another DH?

      The former.

      I think all of us here in educated fan-land were always more interested in finding a way to put Gardbrera firmly on the bench than the Yankees ever were. Even after the Granderson acquisition, we wanted to add both a DH and an LF. The Yankees, based on the sum total of numerous statements of interest and budget/roster permutations, did not.

      If we add Damon, we’d have this:
      LF- Marellky Gardbreramann
      CF- My Man, 100 Grand
      RF- The Most Interesting Man in the World
      DH- Johnny Rightfieldporch

      When you consider that
      A) Melky had a league average season last year and improved at the plate dramatically
      B) Gardner put up a decent line as well, albeit in SSS
      C) the team has said over and over it wants to save some DH bats for Posada/ARod/Jeter

      … it probably means DH is a timeshare between Johnny and Posada, and LF is a timeshare between Melky, Johnny, and the Gardner/Hoffman twins.

      Johnny will be the only bat we add. He’ll play 60% DH, 30% LF, and 10% resting on the bench. That’s my stab at it.

      • GeorgeInJax says:

        “Johnny will be the only bat we add. He’ll play 60% DH, 30% LF, and 10% resting on the bench. That’s my stab at it.”

        Will that be worth 2yrs $20M??? I doubt it

      • Mattingly's Love Child says:

        In the grand scheme of things, this is most likely. And it definitely wouldn’t prevent them from kicking some serious ass…

      • Evil Empire says:

        100% agree that this is the likeliest outcome. Not the most awesome, but the likeliest, and certainly completely acceptable.

        The nice thing about acquiring both Granderson and Damon (should that occur) is that we can have multiple permutations of the “A” lineup.

        So long as only one of Melky/Cervelli/Pena is in the lineup at the same time, the offense is very strong. That said, the A lineup where Melky is in LF and Damon McShortporch DHs is *the* best.

    • sciorsci says:

      You enjoy the fact that you have the flexibility to do either.

  51. t says:

    Who are we replacing Matsui with? Replacing Damon with Granderson is fine but what about Matsui? Damon might sign elsewhere if he gets a multi-year offer. I still want to see Matsui come back but looks like it’s too late

  52. Chris says:

    I’d be really interested to see how the Cardinals structured the Holliday offer. It could be something like 5/$70M and then three team options totaling 3/$58.

    I’m a huge fan of signing Holliday, but 8 guaranteed years is about 2 years too many.

    • That’s three years too many, IMO. I’d go 5/90 for him at the most.

      • Reggie C. says:

        What’s the chances that a significant portion of that money + interest would be paid out after the life of the contract? Didn’t Bobby Bonilla sign something similar to that?

        • Chris says:

          Personally, I don’t think that would be a big issue for a player – or much of a benefit for the team. Manny has a deal set up like that with the Dodgers.

          The real issue is how much money he’s guaranteed, not the exact structure of when he gets paid.

  53. steve says:

    Melky/Gardner in LF. Try to sign Nick Johnson or see if Adam Dunn is available.

  54. Nick says:

    Per Jon Heyman’s Twitter…

    “yanks were willling to offer jesus montero in big package but not joba or hughes for halladay. jays liked drabek.”

  55. theyankeewarrior says:

    Hideki Matsui is playing for peanuts in Anehiem because we are “figuring out” our LF situation…

    What the fuck does this mean?

    Is Cashman figuring out how much money Melky is going to make in arbitration? Is he figuring out how annoyed his fan base will be at seeing another year of a Gerdbrera combo in the OF? Is he figuring out how to top a 80 year/500million contract that the Cardinals are offering? Id he figuring out how to trade for Mike Cameron now that he will be launching balls over the monster? Is he figuring out how much money he can tie up in Jason Bay? What the fuck is going on here?

    • Hideki Matsui is playing for peanuts in Anehiem because we are “figuring out” our LF situation…

      What the fuck does this mean?

      It means we had no interest in bringing Hideki back, but we like and respect him enough to not come out and say “We think your knees are ticking timebombs and your best years are behind you and you’re going to collapse like a house of cards or the New York Mets”.

      Instead, we said vague, bullshit things like “we weren’t ready to make a decision about LF this early in the market, so while we’d love to have Hideki back, if he has an offer on the table that works for him and his family he has to take it and we respect his decision blah blah blah mediadoublespeak.”

      • GeorgeInJax says:

        Ah! Something I wholeheartedly agree with.
        Matsui has been good for us, but he has become one dimensional.

        • KK says:

          That one dimension is hitting the ball pretty damn well, so I woudln’t knock it. The other options out there are either way more expensive or substantially crappier.

    • Simple answer:

      The Yankees don’t think Homerdeki’s body is going to hold up for another season.

  56. MattG says:

    I am surprised Cashman allowed Cameron to Boston for 2/15.5. I have to wonder if Cameron had a negative experience in NY, because:

    1) that contract strikes me as a bit below market value
    2) the Yankees were certainly interested

    Unless Cameron was against the idea of playing in New York, doesn’t that at worst earn him a little more money?

    Of those options, it has to be patience, with Melky the fall back. Having Melky, Gardner, and Hoffman all available for left field is not the worst thing in the world. Melky can start, Hoffman/Gardner can platoon if Melky is struggling. Eventually, something will shake free.

    I think Cashman has to let go of the Left Field priority for the time being, and get an impact bat at DH. It would’ve been nice to fill LF first, but it didn’t work out that way.

    • Keanu Reeves says:

      Well, the Yankees had been linked to Cameron, but we have no way of knowing if their interest level was remotely close to RAB’s interest level.

      • Furthermore, as the leader of the Mike Cameron fan club around here, I was always interested in Cameron on a one-year deal. That’s an important point.

        Boston was willing to give him two, because they have a more pressing need for an outfielder than we did. That’s why he ended up there.

        I wanted Cammy on a 1/8 or a 1/9. Boston offered him a 2/15.5. More power to them.

        • Keanu Reeves says:


        • MattG says:

          Sure, but you think that all played out already? Cameron went back to the Yankees, and Cashman told him no way we go two years? All while Damon is demanding 4?

          I give 2 years to Cameron before I give 4, or even 3, to Damon. I’m surprised Boston got the deal it did, as fast as they did.

          • Keanu Reeves says:

            How do you know that Cashman ever had that conversation? As far as we know, the Yankees never made a proposal to Cameron.

            So like TSJC said, good for the Sox. They went out and got their guy. Now we move.

            • MattG says:

              I don’t know anything. Nobody knows anything. That doesn’t preclude me from being surprised. And I am surprised that Cameron agreed to a deal with the Red Sox, considering the level of interest I would expect Cashman to have, the level of interested the Cubs were reported to have, and the demands of Johnny Damon.

              There seemed to be a minimum of 3 teams looking at Cameron, and only one quasi-alternative in Johnny Damon–quasi in that he is a pretty bad defender, and is asking for double the commitment and triple the cost of what Cameron actually signed for. To me, that is very surprising, and a poor use of leverage.

              • Keanu Reeves says:

                I really do understand what you’re saying. I guess all I’m trying to say is that the level of interest we wanted/thought Cashman had in Cameron apparently wasn’t close to what we presumed, or like you said, they probably would have been in on Cameron at the price he signed for.

                Though, I wouldn’t want to give Cameron a second year.

    • sciorsci says:

      The idea of making more money in NY than elsewhere really only applies to the superstars. What kind of endorsement opportunities is Mike Cameron going to get in NY that he won’t get in Boston? They have car dealerships and pizzerias just like NY.

  57. danny says:

    the yankees HAVE a left fielder and his name is melky cabrera, if there is an upgrade out there for cheap and willing to take 1-2 years then fine but i just don’t see LF as a big hole, i thought thats the reason for the Granderson trade so that LF wouldnt be a main concern.

    Get a competant DH and more pitching and that should more than make up for the melkman being the LF.

  58. Brian Cashman is Watching says:

    Melky and Gardner served as a very good stop gap last year, and can certainly do so again with help from Hoffman. The problem is that I don’t know who they are serving as a stop gap for. . .

    Cameron was a great option. . .if he played center field and was a one year stop gap. I think Boston will be very disappointed when his WAR takes a hit if they shift him to left field. He is a decent player, but his WAR value is heavily weighted to his UZR and positional adjustment. With Granderson, Cameron really didn’t seem like an attractive option anymore because his value is tied to center. Granted, with the green monster, he might get 300 hits. . .

    Melky and Gardner will be fine rotating in the outfield. Maybe the better alignment puts Melky in right and Swisher in left, but that might hurt defensively because right field is much smaller.

    Finally, I want to see Holliday go to Atlanta. Good team that has playoff potential, just needs another bat (and Boston loses the compensation pick because Wagner is not as highly ranked as Holliday, so they have to wait until the second round).

    • MattG says:

      “With Granderson, Cameron really didn’t seem like an attractive option anymore because his value is tied to center. ”

      I don’t think outfield UZR works like that. There is a ton of ground to cover in the left field at Yankee Stadium. What’s more, Cameron could play shallower than the typical left fielder, and Granderson can play more to right field because Cameron is in left. The two of them would’ve covered more ground than Granderson and Cabrera, plain and simple.

      But in Fenway, where there is no ground in left field, Cameron’s defensive prowess will take a hit. Unless he has a 37′ vertical leap I am unaware of.

      • Exactly.

        WAR should be used to decide whether to add Cameron or Bay, as they did.

        Once they have Cameron, it doesn’t really matter whether he plays in CF or LF, WAR-wise, because (theoretically) the dip in WAR he’d experience by playing a non-CF position would be countermanded by the fact that if they kept him in CF and moved Ellsbury to LF, it would be Ellsbury who would take the WAR hit.

        It’s basically a zero-sum game.

        That being said, they absolutely should move Ellsbury to LF and keep Cameron in CF, because that’s their best chance for an elite defense. Talent-wise, Cameron has a better chance at posting a good UZR in CF than Ellsbury does. (But, he also has a better chance at posting a good UZR in LF than Ellsbury does as well.)

        It matters, but not quite as much as we say. What’s most important is simply having good players in all 9 starting spots.

    • GeorgeInJax says:

      IMHO sticking with Melky is the way to go.
      Bernie Williams was good, but nothing extraordinary his first 3 years either. He practically doubled his offensive production his fourth full year.
      Melky is still coming into his own. The same for Cano.
      Players don’t usually develop on a platoon basis.
      Give him this year & if he produces sign him to a longer deal.
      If he doesn’t fully develop he can walk.

  59. Keanu Reeves says:

    A bit off topic, but if anyone is interested, the Discovery Science channel is showing a program on sabermetrics in baseball right now.

  60. Rose says:

    IMO. The worst part of Lackey’s deal is the fact that Beckett is going to go out there with something to prove…since it’s now his “walk-year”. He may go out there trying to internally compete with John Lackey to show everybody he’s worth more than Lackey is.

    • steve s says:

      The best part of the Lackey deal is that the Red Sox will now have to give Beckett more $$$ and same or more years than they gave Lackey. Beckett is not walking anywhere.

  61. Meat Loaf says:

    I want Adam Dunn so bad it hurts sometimes.

  62. cor shep says:

    Is the Cards offer to Holliday a fact or just speculation/a rumor?

  63. Angelo says:

    Would anyone consider signing Jack Cust now that he has been non-tendered? He was playing in a pitchers park in Oakland, and with the short porch in Yankee stadium, his numbers could spike upward a bit. He has power and could fill the DH slot.

  64. Free Mike Vick says:

    LOL @ no one being able to say “Mike Cameron”.

    how refreshing.

  65. DerMegalodonster says:

    Oh this is rich!!! Bay maybe going to the Yanks?

    Do it Brian.
    80mil/3yr?… 200mil/5yr? — get it done!

    The amount of backspinning sophistry from the RAB tribe would be priceless.

    I will say, if the RAB tribe is able to pull that off they should all quit their jobs, go down to Washington and start a PR or lobbying firm! Who knows, they might even find a way to get the national debt down.
    Oh this is really rich!

  66. Yanks sign Bay says:

    I think the Yanks will sign Bay for 4/70 with a mutual option for 5 years…And then the Sox will make the trade for A-Gon…This could get really interesting…

  67. westcoastyanks says:

    If the LF option is limited Damon for 3 yrs vs Melky for 1 yr then the answer is obviously Melky — Cashman has made the Yanks position perfectly clear. We’ll know our answer once Holliday and Bay are off the market. Boras is notorious for creating maximum interest in second-tier players by holding them back until they are the best option left available. Once Bay and then Holliday signs, Damon becomes the #1 LF remaining. If one of the losers of the Bay/Holliday derby wants to offer Damon a 3-4 year deal then he is all theirs. If not, the Yankees will have first crack at him. Considering that there really isn’t anyone other than Damon available (assuming that they Yanks don’t want to pony up for Holliday) and Melky is a palatable fallback option for the time being, there is no reason for the Yanks not to wait.

  68. WayneD says:

    This is gettng scary for Yankee fans. We started out great with the Grandy trade but . . .

    WHO THE HELL IS GOING TO PROTECT A-ROD at this point in the 5th spot?

    If I’m A-Rod, I’m furious at this point. We have absolutely no one on the roster currently who can protect A-Rod during the regular season AND through the playoffs.

    Cano could theoretically do it during the regular season, but the danger there is that he once again goes on a three-week vacation to Aruba once the playoffs begin. Then opposing pitchers will walk A-Rod about 30 times . . . if we somehow make it through 3 rounds, which is highly unlikely.

    Cashman better have a wonderful suprise up his sleeve to fill the 5th spot, along with a damn good fourth starter because it’s highly unlikely that BOTH Joba & Hughes will get it done as starters next year.

    It seems like we almost have to sign Holliday & Sheets at this point. Without Holliday (or someone similar), A-Rod is looking at a minimum of 125 walks next year.

    And Damon is definately NOT the answer, not even for one year, which he won’t accept anyway.

    We should have resigned Matsui; he, at least, afforded some protection for A-Rod.

    Things look more than a little bleak for a repeat at this point.

    • Step back off the ledge.

      The pitching staff is currently the same as in 2009, minus Bruney/Coke, plus one more year of development for Hughes/Joba/Robertson/Melancon/other young arms.

      The lineup (which contains A-Rod, Tex, Jeter, Posada, Cano and others, mind you) is unchanged except for the deletion of Matsui/Damon and the addition of Granderson, and Damon and other offensive options are still available on the FA market.

      This team is still awesome, and it’s not complete yet. It’s only December 15. Chill out and keep things in perspective.

      • WayneD says:

        Our starting five does not come close to Boston’s starting five at this point. It would be foolish to believe that we can count of Joba & Hughes for 27-30 wins at this point. Both have potential, but neither has lived up to that potential yet in a starting role.

        Yes, Jeter is one of the best ever, and A-Rod and Tex are as good as it gets in the 3-4 slots, and I love the Grandy pick up. But Posada showed blatant signs of slipping into a near comma defensively last year, & his bat is not going to improving as he nears 40.

        The team, as currently constructed, is not awesome; it’s very good, but not good enough (currently) to repeat.

        • It’s December 15th. Bleak is not a word that should come within 100 miles of a description of the Yankees right now.

          • WayneD says:

            Here’s why I think things look bleak, no matter what the calendar says.

            At this point, Boston CLEARLY has a btter starting five of proven pitching talent, while we have 3 question marks:

            1) Will Andy continue to be a solid number 3 starter? And even if he is, he’s unlikely to match Lackey’s numbers in the 3-hole for Boston.

            2) Will Hughes finally be a consistent starter? There’s potential, but no real evidence that he’s ready to be a reliable starter.

            3) Will Joba ever be able to throw harder than 89-92 mph as a starter? And if he somehow rediscovers his 95-mph fastball as a starter, can he throw it for six or more innings a start? So far, he hasn’t come close to doing that in a starting role. He appears to be a reliever to me, both in personality and ability.

            So we trail Boston considerably in pitching, which means we likely loose to them during the regular season. But let’s say we get by them to face Seattle in the playoffs . . .

            Then, all we have to do is beat Lee, King Felix, and Harden . . . and you’re not worried!

            I think Cashman was counting on getting Doc in a trade since he apparently was willing to trade Montero, but then he got out GM’d by Amaro . . . and now we’re stuck with choosing a pitcher with a questionable throwing arm, since Lackey is gone.

            Sorry, but Cashman screwed up this time, especially if Doc was willing to accept just a three year extension. A starting three of CC, Doc, and Pieman would have virtually guaranteed at least 2 more WS championships over the next three years.

        • westcoastyanks says:

          I think you are overstating your case.

          This team, minus Matsui and Damon and some spare parts, was easily the best team in MLB last year and the only one in a while to win both 100 games and the WS. They have already improved team speed and defense by adding Granderson at a premium position and his bat projects as a fine addition to the lineup. It is also pretty clear that the Yankees are going to sign a veteran bat to play some LF/DH and an arm for either the rotation or bullpen (and maybe even both). Most of this team is in their prime, and those that aren’t are more likely to be on the upside of their career than the downside (Cano, Granderson, Cabrera, Hughes, Chamberlain, Robertson vs. Posada and Pettitte).

          Put together, I’d say the ’10 Yanks should be better than the ’09 version, not worse. Holliday would certainly be a welcome addition, but I don’t think you can say that he is the difference between this team winning another WS or not.

        • sciorsci says:

          One nice benefit for our pitching staff is that they don’t have to pitch to our lineup. Yes, Boston’s rotation, as presently constructed, appears to be superior to the Yanks’, but not by so much that the Yanks’ offensive superiority won’t be a larger factor.

    • westcoastyanks says:

      Well Posada did have a 133 OPS+ last year, which was nearly enough to place him among the league leaders. I also assume that Cashman will pick a tasty treat or two from the aging slugger free agent salad bar. Delgado? Thome? Dye? None of those guys should be the focal point of a lineup anymore but any of them will give a pitcher pause before they decide to pitch around ARod, especially with men on base.

      Also, there is something to be said for keeping one’s powder dry. There are always some intriguing names that pop up around June and the herd begins to thin. Ordonez, Dunn and Burrell all seem like guys that could be had if their team isn’t in a race and the Yanks were willing to pick up the rest of their salary. Frankly, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Dunn in the DH spot come opening day — we already know that Nationals team isn’t going anywhere.

  69. WayneD says:

    I’d rather trade for Dunn than sign Bay. Both can afford some protection for A-Rod, no doubt. But Dunn could be had for one year, rather than commiting to Bay & his awful defense & low BA fo 4-5 years, which is absurd.

    Bay hit in the .260s last year, imagine how low his BA will be in 4-5 years!

    And his homers are likely to drop 10-20 percent once he leaves Fenway. Bay’s shoddy defense, coupled with a .260 BA and a drop off to say 28-30 HRs just won’t cut it for a repeat. Hell, Matsui could have given us better than that for one-tenth the money.

    Which leads me back to my earlier comment that we need to sign Holliday or trade for someone like him to protect A-Rod.

    Cashman, what the hell are you thinking? Stop fidgeting with Damon; say have a nice life and move on to addressing our needs for the 5th spot in the order and the 3rd or 4th spot in the rotation.

    Resigning Damon will not help us repeat. If that’s the plan, we have zero chance of repeating. There’s a bar of soap under Damon’s right foot and a bannana under the other one, and the drop-off in his production is going to be precipitous beginning next year. Move on, Cashman.

    • pete says:

      100% disagree. Johnny Damon, I would say, would be the best move if we can get him off the three year horse

      • WayneD says:

        When was the last time you saw Damon throw a runner out at home? Or at third? Or at second, for that matter?

        I’ll start reading encyclopedia . . .when I get to Z, I’ll assume you’ve given up.

        Damon’s defense is HIDEOUS at this point in his career, He’s even scary under fly balls. It’s hard to believe, but Melky in left is actually an upgrade over Damon in left field.

        Stronger arm: Melky. He can actually reach home on less than 64 bounces (about 63 less).

        Faster runner: Melky.

        Damon was a better hitter for power last year (24 vs. 13), and a slightly better hitter for average, but not markedly so (.282 vs. .274 during the regular season and .281 vs. .271 during the post season).

        So, Damon’s offensive numbers were better, but not markedly better than Melky’s, but let’s not forget three important things:

        1. Be very leery of players who match their best years or drastically improve in a category such as HRs in THEIR WALK YEAR. Those player’s numbers virtually always drop off preciptiously after they get a new contract.

        2. Damon is already in his decline years (at age 36, I believe), while Melky is just approaching his prime, so Melky is more likely to improve, while Damon is more likely to decline rapidly.

        Players in their late 30s don’t improve like wine, they improve only with steroids, so there’s little or no chance we’ll see a repeat of Damon’s numbers from last year this year, while Melky’s numbers could (at least theoretically) improve as he moves into his prime.

        3. Damon’s defense is so bad that it easily offsets any offensive advantage he has over Melky.

        This is not to say I’m thrilled about the idea of going with Melky in left. I’d prefer Holliday. But, all things considered, Melky in left is no worse than a push when compared to Damon in left.

        And if you want Damon as a DH, there are definately better options available than him –e.g., Delgado (not one of my favorities), Vladdy, or Dunn — and those guys can at least supply a measure of protection for A-Rod in the 5th spot, which Damon can’t do.

    • sciorsci says:

      Bay’s shoddy defense, coupled with a .260 BA and a drop off to say 28-30 HRs just won’t cut it for a repeat.

      Really? If the Yankees added Bay to their lineup right now and didn’t make another move for the rest of the offseason, I think you’d be hard pressed to suggest that the Yankees would be anything less than favorites to represent the AL in the WS.

      • WayneD says:

        Apparently the Yankees agree with me that Bay’s a bust. Word on this & other sites is that the Yankees will not be going after Bay.

        And yes, I do think we’re no longer the clear cut favorite to win the AL or WS at this point.

        Look at Seatles’ pitching now, god their starting three is scary now. If they get some more offensive, as they’re trying to do & no doubt will do, they could be extremely tough to beat in the playoffs.

        And that’s assumeing we can get by Boston, who’s starting five is clearly better than our starting five with the signing of Lackey. And yes, our offensive is better than Boston’s, but their obviously going to add at least one more bat, and that bat might be a certain fellow in San Diego, who’ll help close the gap some between them and us.

        Bottom line: we are not markedly better than Boston or Seattle at this point; we may even be getting perilously close to even with those two, and both those teams are prepared to add more parts to their team, so we certainly need to do more.

        So go get Holliday and Sheets, Cashman.

  70. [...] about Jason Bay and the Yankees from John Tomase and Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald (via RAB). According to Tomase and Silverman, although the Mets, Angels, and Mariners are considered the [...]

  71. WayneD says:

    One last comment tonight on the need to do something big now!

    What was the difference between the Yankees of ’09 and the team that missed the playoffs in ’08?

    Answer: CC, Burnett, and Tex.

    And when did we get those guys?

    During the winter free agent period, which we’re in once again.

    So we better get moving on something inspiring, because Boston & Seattle are doing their damnest to overtake us. And they’ve definately made major in-roads on us the last few days.

    So, yes, it is time to start worrying!

  72. Paul Rossmango says:

    I heard Brian Cashmans interview on the FAN with Mike Francesa. He stated that pitching was the priority and another starter was desired. Later on the names Bronson Arroyo and Ben Sheets came up. I think they should sign Damon for 1+Option and call it a day.

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