Open Thread: Nick Swisher FTW


With the Opening Night match-up between the Yankees and the Red Sox fast approaching, ESPN has started to roll out its on-air promotions. The first way to hit the World Wide Leader is a doozy, and Nick Swisher, obviously, steals the show.

The set-up: Clay Buchholz and actor Adam Scott are singing Sweet Caroline when the chorus comes up. They toss it over to Swisher who, well, you’ll see. He gives it right back to them as only Nick Swisher could do. Afterward, Buchholz steals Swisher’s laptop and runs away. Only part of this paragraph is true.

It might not as classic as the Old Spice commercial that always makes me laugh, but it’s a good one. Who can complain when the Yankees come out on top anyway?

Anyway, this is, as the title may give away, your open thread for the evening. The Devils host the Rangers tonight while the Islanders take on the Flames. The Knicks and Nets are both mercifully off tonight, and some of my favorites on NBC — Community, Parks and Recreation, The Office and 30 Rock — are all new tonight. In the words of Bill and Ted, be excellent to each other.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Ray Fuego says:

    The video was embedded i got to watch it.

  2. ultimate913 says:

    If anyone is up for reliving the moment, the ALDS Game 3(Yankees vs Twins) in on YES.

  3. My brother is a student at UCF and lives literally across the street from the baseball field. He says a dude on his team, Chris Duffy, in 21 game:

    slugging % of 1.167

    OBP .594
    OPS 1.76100

    he has 42 hits in 21 games, 2 hits per game
    12 Hrs
    26 runs
    batting .538
    11 doubles
    39 RBI




  4. chriskeo says:

    I have come to conclusion on the 5th starter situation and everyone freaking out.

    The offseason has been too long, we need Opening Day to come. Once it gets here, we can focus on the one thing we all have in common, rooting for the Yankees.

  5. Jose says:

    Can someone please agree with me that the Yankees have developed starters in the past? I need reassurance that people out there still believe in the front office.

    • bexarama says:

      I believe in the front office, but I’m not sure if I believe in them when it comes to developing starters.

    • The last truly successful starter they developed was Andy Pettitte. He debuted in 2005. Ted Lilly and Jake Westbrook have had some measures of Major League success, but both of those were developed while with the Expos. Otherwise, it’s been a rough decade and a half for Yankee pitching prospects.

      FWIW, Ian Kennedy will probably be the D-backs’ third starter this year.

      • Accent Shallow says:

        Odds on Kennedy pitching non-horribly, and people wishing we’d traded Joba over him: 3-1?

      • YankeeJosh says:

        If the Yankees knew that one of Jona or Hughes would be a starter, and one would be a reliever for the full season, I don’t understand why they have thinned out their pitching depth. Granted, I’m not a huge Gaudin fan, but seems like he’d have been a good guy to hang on to. Who’d have thought the Yankees would be missing the depth Ian Kennedy could have provided in the Minors?

    • Gonna agree with bexarama here. Not their strong suit.

      • Jose says:

        Maybe not their strength, but will you agree that they are competent enough to do it, and have done it in the past?

        • As Hey ZZ said below, not this group. Not the pitching coaches and not really Cashman either.

          To be clear, though, they haven’t screwed up everything with Joba and Hughes yet, but if Joba winds up in the pen, I personally wouldn’t believe that to be a step in the right direction.

        • Riddering says:

          Hey ZZ makes a solid point down below. The Yankees as a franchise that has existed for over a century have developed starting pitchers. The current management and coaching staff have not produced a major league capable starter. Yet.

          No one can point to Whitey Ford or Andy Pettitte as a source of confidence for the future of the young pitchers coming up now.

        • ROBTEN says:

          Maybe not their strength, but will you agree that they are competent enough to do it, and have done it in the past?

          I think these are two slightly different issues.

          I believe they are competent enough to do it, although today’s decision raises serious questions for me. As with any baseball decision, I am willing to have patience to see how it works out, but if it means Joba ends up in the pen permanently then I believe it was a mistake.

          However, as Ben points out, there’s also little evidence that they have done it in the past either. To be fair, they haven’t had the kind of talent in the system that Hughes and Joba have, but they also seem to struggle with how best to develop it now that it’s there.

          As with anything, we’ll have to see how it plays out going forward, but there’s just not a lot of past evidence to say with confidence that this was a shrewd move.

      • Eric Solomon says:

        I’m with you, Rebecca. This is a huge organizational fail on the part of the Yankees, unless Joba is injured and they’re not telling anyone. Which wouldn’t surprise me, actually.

    • Hey ZZ says:

      This current brain-trust has not.

      They developed Wang, but then proceeded to completely botch his rehab and potentially ruin his career. If CC did not hit the market last year, the Yankees would have a very serious problem.

    • Accent Shallow says:

      Does CMW count? Does Pettitte count, or is that too long ago? Do Karstens, McCutchen and Ohlendorf count, even though they wouldn’t be starting for this team?

      • Jose says:

        I think they do. I was just curious to see what other people thought. The response hasn’t been as positive as I had hoped.

      • Do Karstens, McCutchen and Ohlendorf count, even though they wouldn’t be starting for this team?

        Ohlendorf was developed by the Diamondbacks. Karstens is an interesting question because he just isn’t that good. Do you “develop” mediocre arms or do they just sort of outlast the hundreds of other guys just like them?

        McCutchen might be closer to legit than the other guys.

      • Wang absolutely counts, and everyone forgets him for some reason. When he was drafted, he had a full complement of pitches, but none was outstanding except that sinker. They made him a sinkerballer, and deserve credit for what he produced. They did a good job teasing the most value out of him.

        • Ed says:

          Wang wasn’t drafted, he was an international free agent.

          And when he was signed, he was a fastball/slider guy. He was developed that way until he was having issues with his shoulder, at which point they went with the sinker for health reasons.

          They do deserve credit for him, but they lose some of that for mishandling him after the foot injury.

          • When they did sign him, one of the things they raved about was his “smooth, easy mechanics” thinking that he should be very durable. So much for that theory.

            About the foot, it’s really easy to monday morning QB that one, but the fact of the matter was that injury was extremely rare in Baseball, so they were flying blind. They took what they thought was the conservative route by telling CMW not to do anything, but as it turns out that was worse. Live and learn, but it’s not fair to judge them after the fact.

            • Ed says:

              On the foot, I don’t blame them for anything they did before they put him on the DL in early ’09. I just think they were crazy to activate him as soon as they did. That’s something I felt since I first heard he was activated, not a second guessing thing. I do realize though that it’s certainly possible that his shoulder was already a lost cause at that point in time.

    • Now I’m doing a post about this. Gonna be good.

    • 28 next year says:

      to be fair, the Yankees have to try and integrate young pitching while maintaining pace in the AL East and constantly winning. It is easy to develop starters when you have games to throw away but the Yankees don’t have that luxury. Even the Red Sox are having difficulty getting Buchholz in there because they want 5 dependable starters and aren’t sure whether Buchholz can handle it. Lester took some time to develop too. It takes patience.

      • bexarama says:

        This, to some extent. Though it is extremely frustrating to see what happened to Joba and I’m still not sure the FO knows how to develop pitching.

        Hopefully going into the 2014 season we’ll all be laughing about us stressing out about this. =/

    • Dalelama says:

      Yeah Andy Pettitte, one every 12 years…LOL

  6. Steve H says:

    So is Joba back in the rotation in 2011?

    • bexarama says:

      Espero que si pero no estoy segura =/

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      Probably. Cashman has said before these roles aren’t permanent…

      Regardless if and probably when Joba goes to the bullpen I still find it to be a bad move even if we know he’ll start again in 2011.

      • Accent Shallow says:

        Well, in 2011 they could need two pitchers, if Pettitte retires and Home Run Javy goes elsewhere. I can see them signing Lee or Beckett or Webb, but not two of the three, or one of the three and a lesser pitcher.

        So I have to think Joba’d be in the rotation, unless you’re ready for the McAllister/Noesi/Nova era.

      • ROBTEN says:

        I don’t have a subscription to _Newsday_, so I can’t access the full article, but here’s what Cashman apparently said about Joba as a starter going forward:

        “Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said on Thursday he still considers Joba Chamberlain to be a starting pitcher even though Chamberlain will begin the season in the bullpen after he was beaten out by Phil Hughes for the team’s fifth-starter spot. ‘He’s a starter in the bullpen,’ Cashman said in a telephone interview.”

        “If someone wrote a story ‘Joba is a failed starter’ – that’s just not true,” Cashman said. “Bottom line, he’s a major league starting pitcher.”

        On the one hand, it raises the hope that he’s still considered a starter by the organization, but it does seem to confirm that he’ll be in the pen this year, rather than at AAA.

        Cashman also said, however, that he wouldn’t want to “muddy the waters” by speculating whether Joba will be a rotation candidate next season.

        So, make of that what you will.

        • I’m of mixed emotions about this.

          I’m glad they still view Joba as a starter long term and intend to put him back in that role next year. I’m saddened that they think the best path for Joba THIS YEAR and the best roster construction for the team THIS YEAR is Joba in the bullpen. It’s not.

          Joba the 2010 short reliever and Mitre/Aceves/Nova/Hirsh/McAllister the 2010 6th starter options is NOT better than Joba the 6th starter and a Mo-Robertson-Marte-Aceves-Park-Melancon-Mitre bullpen. It’s not.

          Both for next year AND this year, the best thing for the Yankees to do to compete for a title is have both Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes as starting pitchers, even if one is temporarily starting in Scranton. The bullpen doesn’t need them as much as the rotation does.

          • JobaWockeeZ says:

            Both for next year AND this year, the best thing for the Yankees to do to compete for a title is have both Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes as starting pitchers, even if one is temporarily starting in Scranton. The bullpen doesn’t need them as much as the rotation does.

            Oh yes this. The bullpen with or without Joba will be awesome. Joba is a fuckton of icing on the icing. Joba in AAA provides more SP depth which will definitely be used.

            In AAA Joba can hone his starting skills where Phil can hone his starting skills and it will be likely both pitch in the rotation at some point during the season.

            If Joba is the 8th inning guy then I have absolutely 0 faith that Joba is the 6th starter.

          • ROBTEN says:

            Both for next year AND this year, the best thing for the Yankees to do to compete for a title is have both Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes as starting pitchers, even if one is temporarily starting in Scranton. The bullpen doesn’t need them as much as the rotation does.

            Repeated for emphasis.

            It makes sense not only for this year, but next year and the year after that and the year after that…

            Putting Joba or Hughes in the pen full-time does not provide the same value to the team this year and going forward that having both continuing to work as starters would.

            If Joba is “a major league starting pitcher,” as Cashman says, then it doesn’t make any sense that 6 2/3 innings decided whether or not he should be allowed to start.

            I hope that they at least consider “Scranton till the Stretch” for Joba.

        • Cashman-”We still consider him a starter. On Earth 2. “

  7. Hey guys, what’s up? Been busy running around all day like a chicken with my head cut off. Did I miss anything big?


    Awesome. Rock on, then.

  8. Cecala says:

    So I was at the Rangers game last night, it was an amazing game and the Rangers actually one. The sad part is that they probably will not make the playoffs but on the ferry I was thinking about how NY with such a large market, can not put together competent sports teams. It only makes me appreciate the Yankees more.

    Tonight, the four games playing with the NCAAB all have a legit shot at an upset. I feel that Cornell is most likely to lose (see the Purdue/Siena game when everyone said Siena was going to win) and that Washington has a chance to quietly advance to the Elite 8. Not much has been said on them, they are obviously the tournaments dark horse though.

    • Blame the owners. It’s not a coincidence that the Knicks, Rangers and Mets all have problems. Their owners aren’t very good. The Yankees, Jets, Giants and Devils have enjoyed recent success simply because they have better people running the teams.

    • Johan Iz My Brohan says:

      That they possibly may not make the playoffs is not sad at all, the team is terrible. When you have huge money tied up in Redden, Rozsival and Drury you are doomed. Staal and Del Zotto are going to be great though. The offense was terrible with guys like Kotalik, Higgins, and Lisin neither of whom could score for their lives (though they have had respectable seasons before they were on the Rangers).

      The farm is great though with Stepan, Kreider, McDonagh and quite a few others, though they are at least two years away.

      This team is closer and more likely to get a top 5 pick, possibly even a top 3 pick, than they are at making the playoffs. So by all means they need to loose (as sad as that is to say). They need first line center very badly. They need to be in a position to draft Tyler Seguin (who will be a top 2) or Kirill Kabov, Nino Niederreiter, or Vladimir Taresenko (who will be around 6-10 where the rangers may have a draft pick).

      Also fire Sather and Torts if possible PLEASE.

  9. Steve H says:

    Glad my awards predictions post hasn’t gone up yet. I was picking sleepers for each award. Joba was my (admittedly rose colored glasses) sleeper for the Cy.

    I feel he has an age 24 breakout season coming, just like Lester did. While they got their through different paths, Lester and now Joba finally had the training wheels taken off for their 24 year old season. Through their first 30 or so starts, Joba and Lester were very similar pitchers. Once 24, and with no restrictions, Lester broke out in a big way. There will be no more looking over his shoulder for Joba, nor watching pitch and innings counts. I think he was trying to be too perfect last year, and it just led to his wildness. When you starting aiming the ball, the last place it goes is where you want it to. The epitome of this for Joba was his May 5th start against the Sox. After 5 batters the Sox were up 4-0 with a guy on first. It was brutal. He got out of the 1st at 4-0, and then came out as a new pitcher. He seemed to be throwing at 85% to preserve innings and pitches, and he got beat. From the 2nd inning on, he just said screw it, you can’t beat my best stuff. The rest of Joba’s night went, K, K, F9, 1B, K, K, 5-3, K, K, BB, K, K, K, BB, HBP, K, K, K. It was ridiculous. How can a guy look so bad in the 1st, and so great after? He just hauled back and pitched, and I think that’s what we’ll see from Joba this year. No more Torre Rules, just Joba pitching, and being treated like he’s any other starter.

    All for naught.

  10. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Damn I’m going to cancel my season tickets because of this 5th starter stuff.

    /Bronx teechur’d

  11. Brooklyn Ed says:

    hey guys, just came back from Florida. got a chance to catch the Yanks game, and managed to see the Great Mariano Rivera chilling in the bullpen:

    Marte warming up, and Mariano sitting behind Harkey.

  12. southeryankeefan says:

    I’m stuck in a Becker CPA review class until 11 pm. Don’t they know it’s march madnes

  13. Tom Zig says:

    The terroist level is now at Red.

  14. pete says:

    Steve H: check yo’ email

  15. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Apparently the Dodgers and Mets are interested in picking up Guadin. Cash should have tried tricking Omar to net us Meija. Then Mo for the 9th. Joba for the 8th. Hughes for the 7th. Meija for the 6th. GAMES ARE 5 INNINGS LONG.

  16. Do Not Feed The Trolls! says:

    I’m so distraught I cant even enjoy delicious chicken and rice :(

  17. pete says:

    On a day where tempers flared
    and opinions thrashed
    When many were scared
    that Joba’d been trashed

    We looked frantically
    left and right
    knowing b-jobbers
    would claim they’d been right

    Good god we were confused
    How could Joba be so misused?
    Beaten out by such a small sample
    From Phillip Hughes?

    But alas, these questions lead us nowhere
    After all we needn’t care
    For in that video, sitting in a chair
    Is the one man who can lead us anywhere

  18. jive says:

    Most of you guys are really smart baseball fans so I ask, do you guys think Kenny Lofton is a HOFer? Bias aside because he was a jerk as a Yankee but what do you think?

    • bexarama says:

      I was gonna say “no” right off the bat but I looked at the historical WAR list and was surprised at how relatively high he is. However, that might be because he had such a long career. He didn’t have spectacular overall numbers, nor a super long peak, so I’ll still say no.

      • JGS says:

        did he have such a long career? 17 years is a long time, but it’s not “great compiler” long. his b-ref page just looks scarily huge because he played on so many teams. He is nowhere close to Jamie Moyer/Julio Franco territory

        • bexarama says:

          Nah, it’s not great compiler long, but it is long.

          Because he’s a CF he is obviously worth more, but I think historical WAR accounts for that. He’s in the Hall of Very Good, though.

    • pete says:

      it depends – when does defense start counting (beyond the Omar Vizquel/Ozzie Smith types?

    • uhhhh….he’s not a HOFer because he played for too many teams. I mean, if the teams he played for thought he was any good, why didn’t he stay there?


  19. Jophil says:

    Besides the joba over hughes shit, i also really don’t get how cashman couldnt find anybody who wanted gaudin. and even if he couldnt, then fucking send him to AAA. Gaudin>>>>>Mitre. It’s really upsetting that we’ll have to witness the latter get hammered every time he comes in. The guy just isn’t good. I bet we’ll a significant drop in the confidence poll this week whenever that goes up, and deservedly so. Disappointing, cashman

    • pete says:

      on a day where Hughes is named the #5 starter and Joba might not even be the #6, you’re pissed that Gaudin was released?

    • WIlliam says:

      There are a lot of teams looking for a guy making 3 mil who posted league average numbers in the AL East. Why he wasn’t traded is beyond me. Maybe there’s a problem with him the general public is unaware of.

      • I think the general public is well aware of the fact that we’re living through a very bad economy, but many sports fans often don’t recognize that economics applies to baseball teams as well. It’s a business, and this Gaudin development was all about business.

        Chad Gaudin isn’t worth $3 million to teams that have already tapped out their budgets for April-June including, apparently, the Yankees,. That’s why he’s drawing interest after the contract was canceled, and that’s why Cashman had no takers as he was shopping him this week.

    • I think Gaudin’s 3 mil salary had a lot to do with it. For that money, nobody would give Cash anything of value. So letting his contract kick in made no sense, he was better off cutting him and just paying the minimum.

  20. Hey ZZ says:

    I mentioned above the Yankees would be in serious trouble without ZZ.

    Seriously though, what if he did not hit the market? What if he was traded from the Indians to the Angels for example and they locked him up long term? What if ZZ preferred to take less money and go to the left coast?

    WTH would the Yankees have done last year and really the forseeable future?

    Guys like Sabathia by and large do not hit the market anymore. The Yankees are not going to be able to save their rotation in this way.

  21. I think I’ll have to drop Joba from my Fantasy team, who do you guys like the most from: Dice-K, Clay Buchholz, Ian Kennedy, Chris Young, Ricky Romero, John Lannan, Derek Holland?

    • Hey ZZ says:

      very good post.

    • ROBTEN says:

      A successful team isn’t the team that wins the World Series one year; it’s the team that can remain a contender every single year, not just because they have money, but because they can successfully manage all levels of their organization.


      • Does that really matter? There will always be 1-2 pitchers available on the FA market that the Yanks will like who can step right in and perform, unlike young pitchers who, if we are honest and realistic about these things, may or may not pan out.

        I’m sure people can point to FAs who failed as well, but the success rates are much, much higher than dealing with prospects. I’m not opposed to developing from within, especially to replenish the bullpen annually, but we shouldn’t assume Joba will be the next Josh Beckett. We don’t know that. There are 10 ‘next’ Josh Beckett’s for every one who pans out.

        Let me ask this, will anyone be surprised if Hughes pitches to a 5 ERA this year? I won’t. Actually, his career ERA as a starter is even higher than that. I got a kick out of the Yanks raving about his change up in a game where he got bombed.

        • bexarama says:

          I have to agree with you to some extent here.

          I love following the minors to some extent. But I also kinda hate it. Because prospects break your heart, especially pitching prospects.

          • What I’m getting at is that so many people KNOW that Joba will be a top flight pitcher, and therefore he should remain a starter at all costs. That’s just silly. We don’t know what Joba is, not yet.

            • JobaWockeeZ says:

              No we don’t know. We we do know is that having an effect and cost controlled starter tremendously helps this team now and in the future. Joba needs every opportunity to start to hone his skills to become better. He isn’t a lock to be great but he still deserves every opportunity.

              • (in my best Clint Eastwood voice) ” ‘Deserves’ got nothin to do with it.”

                Look, he’s there to serve the team, not the other way around. I think he’d be the first to tell you that. As far as the Yanks decision goes, as I just said to Joe once Vasquez was signed, one of Joba and Hughes was going to the bullpen. We could have made all the same arguments for Hughes as for Joba, but Phil wasn’t involved in some ongoing debate where both sides were dug in so deeply.

            • Don’t listen to those people. Listen to the smart ones that say starters are more valuable than relievers, that Joba was drafted as a starter, and that he should be given every chance to start, thus maximizing his value, before considering him a reliever.

              • Now there’s a good argument. Finally.

                But of course, the same could be said of Hughes. He was drafted as a starter, is more valuable, etc, etc. Once they signed Vazquez, they could only start one of these guys. Somebody was going to be disappointed. Sending him to AAA on a team loaded with workhorses makes little sense to me.

              • bexarama says:

                this too.

                aaagh the whole thing is frustrating.

        • WIlliam says:

          I would be very surprised if Hughes’ ERA is above 4.5 Using his small sample size from a year or 2 ago as evidence is not real evidence. He’s shown he can be succesful at the Major league level, he’s refined his secondary pitches, and he’s gotten much more mature as a pitcher. I still think Joba should be the one starting, but I think to say Hughes will pitch to an ERA of 5 is ridiculous.

    • Ed says:

      I agree with most of that, except for this:

      While both Hughes and Chamberlain have had success out of the bullpen, the closest either has had to real success in the rotation is the way Hughes pitched in the rotation just before the Yankees rushed Wang back and shuttled Hughes back to the bullpen.

      Joba’s time starting in 2008 didn’t mean anything to you? Obviously it’s only 1/3 of a season, but I’d be thrilled to see a stretch like that out of either Joba or Hughes.

      • He’s not had an entire season starting–and his time in 2008 starting was very little, considering he didn’t make his first start till June and he got hurt in early August.

        • Ed says:

          Indeed it was short, as I mentioned. But that period was both longer and much more successful than the stretch you mentioned for Hughes. For a longer stretch, I’d also take Joba’s April through July ’09 over any stretch Hughes has had.

          I just find it odd that you picked that stretch for Hughes as “the closest to success”, as he only had 2 good starts, which were a month apart. The other 5 starts ranged from mediocre to horrible.

  22. David A says:

    Le sigh, blocked in the UK…

  23. JobaWockeeZ says:

    Ugh watching Joba in relief of Pettitte in ALDS Game 2.

    Bette get used to it…

  24. bexarama says:

    when you’re in a poor mood and “I Am A Rock” comes on you probably shouldn’t listen to it

    • bexarama says:

      you know what might put me in a better mood though? Prime 9 Moments: Texas Rangers. Just because I’m interested to see what they have on here.

      • JGS says:

        Nolan Ryan’s last two no-hitters?

        • bexarama says:

          the top three were:
          3. their one playoff win
          2. Kenny Rogers’ perfect game
          1. Nolan Ryan’s seventh no-hitter

          I forget the rest but Kinsler hitting for the cycle and Palmiero’s 500th HR were on there.

  25. Hey ZZ says:

    The AL East is going to be a very tight race between 2 and quite likely 3 teams. Therefore, the Yankees need to maximize every advantage they have over the Red Sox and Rays, because there is not much separation in general talent between these 3 teams.

    The marginal upgrade the Yankees receive from Joba as compared to D-Rob/Marte/Park in the 8th is not a significant difference maker to separate this team from the Sox and Rays.

    The Yankees do however have a major advantage in terms of pitching depth. The Red Sox in particular have no identifiable 6th starter right now. Matsuzaka is not going to be ready to start the season. Bowden has been awful and the Red Sox have said that like Tazawa in the bullpen. Even if Dice does return quickly, the Red Sox 6th starter is Tim Wakefield. Joba is potentially a huge upgrade over Wakefield. Mitre is not and you can easily make the argument that he is worse than Wake.

    The reality of the game today is that a rotation is not 5 man deep. If you go into the season envisioning using only 5 starters you are simply not planning accordingly. It just does not happen. You need at the very least 6 starters.

    In a division that could come down to 1 or 2 games, Joba making the starts a 6th starter will inevitably make is big advantage for the Yankees compared to what guys will be making those starts for the Red Sox and Rays.

    • Aceves can spot start, and Mitre has looked much better another year removed from TJ. Plus, you have AAA options like Z-Mac, Nova, and possibly others will assert themselves as options. Someone always does.

      You can find a starter for a few weeks if you have to. In case someone gets hurt isn’t a good enough reason to leave one of your best arms in AAA. Not if you respect the opposition in the AL East.

      • Hey ZZ says:

        Yes, but the point of my post was that Ace or Mitre making those starts is not an advantage and probably is even a disadvantage compared to who will be making those starts for the Red Sox and Rays. The Yankees have the potential to really exploit those few weeks or longer when every team ends up using a 6th starter.

        It is also not a question of in case someone gets hurt. It is just a question of when someone gets hurt.

        • Not really. The 1-4 starters have all been workhorses in recent years, so I wouldn’t assume that at all.

          A better argument would be ‘to back up Hughes if he fails’. That I could see as a definite possibility. But the Yanks seem pretty committed to Phil.

          • Hey ZZ says:

            Not really. The 1-4 starters have all been workhorses in recent years, so I wouldn’t assume that at all.

            This is the assumption that plagues teams every year at the trade deadline when 1/2 of baseball is scrambling to trade for a SP.

            Almost every team goes into the year thinking they have a dependable 1-5. Insert any names 1-5, year after year it is simply not the reality.

            Like I said above, if the Yankees are going into the season with just 5 starter in mind they are planning their season very poorly.

            • Again, talking about everyone else except the Yanks.

              • Hey ZZ says:

                Yes, but pitchers are simply unpredictable. They are extremely fragile in nature and it is entirely unsurprising when even the most dependable pitchers get hurt.

                Gambling on this 5 in the face of so many teams that have failed before is not a smart gamble no matter who they are of what they have done in past.

                It is very irresponsible to expect these guys to all stay healthy.

              • ROBTEN says:

                Again, talking about everyone else except the Yanks.

                See my post below. Short version: Yankees have had the consistency they showed in the rotation last season only three times this decade (2003, 2006).


          • Hey ZZ says:

            Further, from the fangraphs article referenced below: “only two teams had five starters on their pitching staffs that made 24 or more starts: the Chicago Cubs and the Colorado Rockies.”

            Outside of the starting 5 for the Rockies, there were 6 starts from other guys.

            For the Cubs, there were 18 starts from other guys.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      The reality of the game today is that a rotation is not 5 man deep. If you go into the season envisioning using only 5 starters you are simply not planning accordingly. It just does not happen. You need at the very least 6 starters.

      Quoting Fangraphs here…

      # All 30 teams had at least one pitcher make 24 or more starts.
      # Twenty-six teams had two pitchers make 24 or more starts.
      # Then the number drops to 22 teams that had three pitchers make 24 or more starts.
      # Then we hit a cliff. Only nine teams were able to rely on four pitchers to make 24 or more starts.

      Depth is extremely important. Joba needs to be the 6th starter. The starts he’ll make will probably match what the setup man does in terms of value.

    • ROBTEN says:

      I agree.

      They had five pitchers work out of the fifth slot in the rotation last season, but were fortunate in that their four main starters were all able to make 30+ starts, something which hasn’t happened very often. They came close to this level of reliability in 2006 (when Wright went 27 starts in the fourth slot) and did it in 2003 (when even Weaver, in the fifth slot, put up 24 starts). Otherwise, one has to go back to the dynasty years to find anything close to that level of consistency. It is a mark of just how volatile the modern rotation has become that in only 3 of the past nine seasons did four starters make 30+ starts in a season.

      The reality is that the Yankees have a level of pitching depth that they haven’t had in a long time and it really is a misuse of these resources if Joba remains in the pen instead of going to AAA. The upgrade he offers in the bullpen is marginal when compared to the value he has as a starter.

      • Here’s the thing. I don’t think that was just good luck, that’s largely the result of targeting guys who do that annually. I also think Girardi did a good job of not pushing guys early or late, which other managers would have.

        Of course, anytime you have all of your starters stay healthy there’s some luck involved, but it’s not the overriding factor here. It’s who they are as pitchers.


    I’m gonna go cry now. Says the ‘Cuse alumna

  27. Salty Buggah says:

    Just got back home from college and saw the confirmation of Hughes being named 5th starter. While I’m happy for him, I think I might cry (not really b/c Hughes is good but still…)

  28. JGS says:

    …and it’s official. More than a week before the Final Four begins, all four of my Final Four teams are gone.

    Worst. Bracket. Ever

  29. JM says:

    Putting Joba in the bullpen and releasing Gaudin… I really hope the Yankees know what they’re doing. Not a fan of either move at all.

  30. bexarama says:

    tonight’s Office was one of the better ones in weeks.

    Also, which show is better, Community or Parks and Recreation?

    • E Street Shuffle says:

      Parks and Rec is the better show, but Abed is easily the best character of the two

    • Mike HC says:

      Parks and Recs in my opinion. I only watched the first couple of Community episodes. I couldn’t get that into it. I like the office and 30 rock too. So 3 outta 4 aint bad.

  31. The Bud auto tune commercial is the most grating commercial ever.

  32. Cecala says:

    Rangers had a nice win over the Devils with a shootout win! Drury scored the game tying goal with 18 seconds left on the clock.

    PS: The Syracuse part of the bracket was my only non blunder. I have everything perfect with K-State to win and Butler to go to the final 4…If the Duke region didn’t kill me so bad I would be ranked top 5k

  33. James says:

    What is Swisher doing hanging with Buchholz anyway?

  34. AJ says:

    Sweet Caroline, what kind of baseball song is that.

    • ROBTEN says:

      Wait, are you suggesting that a song written by a 28 year-old man about a 9-year old girl that includes the lines “Touching me, touching you,” and “And now I, I look at the night, whooo / And it don’t seem so lonely / We fill it up with only two…How can I hurt when holding you?” is not really appropriate baseball material*?

  35. Rey22 says:

    Brian Cashman playing paintball = AWESOME

  36. Drew says:

    Holy Shit Xavier. What a game.

  37. Ari says:

    How did he get on that horse!!!!

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