Jul
24

Dan Haren Rumors: Asking price vs. selling price

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As Saturday evening arrives, Dan Haren remains a member of the Diamondbacks, but Arizona’s asking price and the Yanks’ thinking are coming into view. As Frankie Piliere reported earlier today, the D-backs want Joba and “perhaps a guy like [Manny] Banueloes” while the Yankees would prefer to deal Hector Noesi, Ivan Nova or Zach McAllister. Piliere says he can “see this going down to the wire.” The wire is, of course, 4 p.m. next Saturday.

While Sergio Mitre‘s start underscored the Yanks’ need for some pitching depth, the Yanks are under no pressure to make this trade earlier in the week than necessary. The two sides are clearly negotiated, and each knows what the other wants. Now, it’s up to the general managers to make the best trade possible without giving up too much. The rest of us will just have to play the waiting game.

130 Comments»

  1. Steve H says:

    Per Heyman the Yankees won’t include Joba. I think this is dead wrong, but if they don’t put him back in the rotation next year it only makes it that much worse. As many have said, Haren through 2013 will likely be more valuable than Joba through 2013, even if he’s starting. If he’s relieving there’s no doubt Haren will be more valuable. While I’d still make the trade with Joba, the fact that they are hesitant at least gives me a sliver of hope that they intend to put him back in the rotation.

    • If it’s only over Joba, that’s foolish. If it’s over Joba + money, that’s not so foolish right now. We’ll see where they end up in a week.

      • Steve H says:

        I’m surprised the money is such a big factor. Haren is underpaid so it’s hard to see the Yankees taking too hard of a line on Arizona picking up some of the dime. If Haren was overpaid I can see the money being a bigger factor, but he’s a steal. From the Yankees side I can see them being concerned with their budget, but if I’m the D-Backs and only making the trade to save money, I wouldn’t chip in a dime, unless it was to truly buy better prospects.

      • I agree. The Yanks aren’t the type of organization that can wait forever and let a young pitchers take his lumps indefinitely. They’re always in win-now mode, and the fact of the matter is they’ve given him the past two seasons to produce, and he hasn’t (for whatever reason). He also looks like he’s lost a lot of confidence in his stuff out there. A change of scenery could benefit all parties, and don’t assume Joba would have ever done it again here.

      • YankeeFan says:

        That’s what my point was last night.

      • Captain Jack says:

        I think they’re trying to save some money on Haren so that they can still sign Cliff Lee and have some wiggle room in the budget in December. Either that or if they’re dealing Chamberlain they want to leverage him the best that they can.

  2. ted says:

    Why do you think Cashman was willing to give up Arodys Vizcaino for one year of Vazquez, and not Banueloes for three years of haren? (I know it’s early in the process, just wondering.) Thank you.

  3. mike c says:

    joba + haren’s $12.5MM salary is too high, we have enough to win this year already. for the same price next year we can pay lee + either andy/javy, keep joba, and even have a couple left over for a player or two as well

    • mike c says:

      for the same price next year (if lee is signed*)

    • ted says:

      I’m confused. Are you saying Lee will take 12M?

      • mike c says:

        that was supposed to be an addendum if the yankees are dead set on lee next year

        • Adam B says:

          I like the idea of Haren better than lee, Haren is younger and cheaper and his contract ends when he is around 32-33, if we give Lee burnet money he will be done when he is like 37. Gotta give it to cash, its a great business move.

          • mike c says:

            a 5 year deal sounds like a little too long ideally, but i’m pretty sure lee’s talent makes up for the fact that he’s 2 years older than haren

        • Brien Jackson says:

          I’m still not getting it. Are you saying they can get Lee for the same or less amount of money as Haren?

  4. JoeC says:

    I’m not opposed to trading Joba, but I think the Yankees could land Haren without including him.

    • ted says:

      What are the Yankees going to do with Joba if they keep him?

      • mike c says:

        that is the ultimate question, but perhaps you’re looking at it backwards: What is Joba going to do for the yankees if they keep him?

        • Steve H says:

          Fulfill his potential as a starter or waste away in the bullpen.

          • mike c says:

            if he gets his fastball command down to where it should be, there’s no doubt he’ll end up being a starter for the yankees. he’s gotta be a little more like hughes and step up when asked though

            • Tosh says:

              Before he can do that he better apologize to BABIP to get them to stop.

              • mike c says:

                bad luck is one of the problems yes absolutely, but the BB/9 needs to come down a tad too

                • Mr. Maker says:

                  Joba’s BB/9 currently sits at 3.5 the lowest it has been since 2008 when it was also 3.5. Yeah it’s not that good, but even the good Joba allowed a lot of walks.

          • nsalem says:

            If we obtained Haren tomorrow and Andy comes back in 3 weeks
            is everybody proposing that we return Hughes to the bullpen for the rest of the season (rather than the original plan of having him skip starts when convenient to keep him at his innings goal). Do you perceive this as being dangerous
            as your quote that I am replying to may apply to Phil in a very short time. If Andy was healthy and Phil hasn’t been slumping would Haren even be on the radar. Should a pulled muscle and a two month slump by a young pitcher who we are committed to (and seems a good bet to thrive in the future) change the plans of a team in first place that is fairly certain to go to the playoffs?

        • Adam B says:

          he should go the minors… but thats why im just a fan i guess

      • JoeC says:

        Pitch him out of the bullpen? There are worse problems to have than having too many quality arms

  5. Zanath says:

    Well considering AZ supposedly wants to trade him before Tuesday, we might find out sooner. MLBTR says Tigers don’t want to give up Turner for Haren and they might be looking at Lilly now. So I guess that leave us, Phillies, St. Louis, and Minnesota (though I heard they weren’t involved in negotiations).

    • From what I’ve heard, Haren doesn’t want to go to Detroit anyway. That might be a problem easily solved if Detroit were to guarantee the 2013 option. Who knows.

      • Zanath says:

        Yeah, that too. Twins are on his no-trade list as well. Not sure about St. Louis and Philly.

      • That’s a tall order for a team in one of the most economically devastated cities in the country during a deep and protracted recession. Add in the fact that they just ate a ton of money in Dontrelle and Robertson. I’d bet against that, sounds like AZ is just trying to create phantom bidders to me.

    • phughesisgod says:

      If AZ is adament about dealing Haren before his start on Tuesday, then that asking price will come down as the days go by. If AZ calls Cashman tonight and say they wont make Cashman trade Joba or Banuelos, and go for what the Yankees are willing to do, than this will be done in a matter of seconds. All it takes is one call if both sides really want to do a deal. The problem for AZ is that the Yankees hold all the leverage since the Yankees really dont need an SP and it doesnt help their case that they have stated they want to deal him before his Tuesday start. So, I think the only way this gets done is if AZ agrees to what the Yankees are willing to do right now.

      • There have been stories since the D-Backs got off to a bad start that they’re bleeding money like crazy. This is a fire sale, so you wait for the price to come down.

        We can criticize the Yanks and Cash for many things, but one thing they’re very good at is assessing the marketplace. They did so on the Bobby Abreu deal, the A-Rod deal, and they took us all to school on not offering arb to their FAs a few years back, and they were 100% right. I have to trust their judgment on these matters.

        • Dalelama says:

          I wouldn’t say they did a great job on the Arod deal. In my mind it is a horrible deal as is the AJ deal.

          • Tosh says:

            Unrelated comparison much?

            • bexarama says:

              dalelama irrationally hates A-Rod and AJ, ignore him.

            • dalelama says:

              Not at all, the poster was claiming the Yankees and Cashman are very good at judging the market and I just provided two examples where they weren’t. I didn’t even mention the Jared Wright, Carl Pavano, Kyle Farnsworth, or Nick Johnson debacles.

          • Adam B says:

            arod deal was great, AROD>>>>>>>>>>soriano and the rangers ate money

            I agree with you on burnett, i never liked that deal from the start

          • Maybe I wasn’t clear. The A-Rod trade with Texas, not the contract. Nobody likes that contract, even his biggest supporters.

            • Mister Delaware says:

              I didn’t like the Jaret Wright signing. That isn’t relevant here either.

            • Dalelama says:

              Agreed thought you meant last contract…..

            • Plank says:

              I know its unrelated to your point, but how is a player “overpaid?”

              The Yankees make hundreds of millions of dollars in profits every year. The players are the ones that produce the money generated. Why shouldn’t they be “overpaid?”

              If Arod or AJ or Jeter can get a bunch of money for playing baseball, then good for them.

              • dalelama says:

                Overpaid relative to the value he produces and the alternatives available with a similar investment.

                • Plank says:

                  I understand what the idea is, but I don’t understand why every transaction is deemed “good” if a player is underpaid and “bad” if a player is overpaid.

                  I understand the idea of paying a certain amount for wins above replacement players, and gauging a contract on those parameters, but I don’t like the idea that a good deal for the owner is good and a good deal for the player is bad.

                  George Steinbrenner wasn’t particularly wealthy when he bought the Yankees and he died a billionaire. In his final years, he got hundreds of millions of dollars from tax payers to build a new stadium. What is good for him is not good for me or you.

        • Captain Jack says:

          Yeah I trust Cashman in these things, he never lets things like a few mill for an underpaid player or a player that doesn’t have much of a future in the organization get in the way unless he has something else worked out.

    • Tom Swift says:

      The real question is not what Haren’s value in theory is. It’s what the other bidders are prepared to offer. If Cash knows that the other bidders are offering less than what he has put on the table, why bid against yourself? The other bidders will either raise or fold, and if they raise, Cash will have to decide what his next move is.

  6. mike c says:

    perhaps a move to arizona will make joba grow from grunts n’ farts into montezuma’s revenge

  7. Rob says:

    It was nice knowing you, Joba. We’ll cheer for you with the D’bags. You and IPK can relive the days when you were part of the Big Three here at RAB. And with IPK throwing up a 112 ERA+ in the desert, I’m sure you’ll be north of that too as a starter. Too bad it won’t be with the Yanks.

    • I’m not convinced Joba has always given us his best efforts and think he has a lot of growing up to do, but I wouldn’t slam the door on his ass. He’s struggling to mature like a lot of people do, and doing it under tremendous scrutiny.

  8. So far, there’s been more push back than I thought there would be among Yankee fans. Here are their 3 most common complaints:

    -”He’s having a bad season”

    -”He’s a 1st half pitcher”

    -”He can’t perform in the AL East”

    • bexarama says:

      I’m a bit wary just because of the 1st half pitcher stuff, but I’ve heard Yankee fans say he “doesn’t have any AL experience.” Erm. Okay?

      • Steve H says:

        Go look at this 1st vs. 2nd half numbers though. His BABIP against swings almost 50 points which accounts for a ton of his 2nd half problems.

        • bexarama says:

          When it’s a pretty prevalent pattern though, I dunno if you can just say “eh, BABIP” and shrug it off. Not that I think that his past bad second halves mean he can’t have a good second half, or whatever.

          • Steve H says:

            His career 2nd half ERA is 0.98 higher, but his 2nd half FIP is only 0.35 higher.

            • bexarama says:

              Again, FIP/BABIP doesn’t tell you everything when it’s a prevalent pattern. That’s really my only complaint, I certainly wouldn’t mind if we got Haren (as long as Montero and/or Hughes weren’t involved).

        • Sometimes your BABIP goes up because you have nothing. It’s not all just randomness and luck.

          • Steve H says:

            His K rate goes up too though so his stuff seems fine. BABIP doesn’t account for all of it (as his BB rate increases too) but it’s been a factor. And of course this year his first half BABIP has been a bitch and it’s showing in his ERA.

      • Yeah, I’ll spin this into a post if we get him, but I know for a fact he was terrific against the Yanks in YS2 and dominated the O’s. In Fenway he’s been up and down like everyone in a handful of starts.

        The guy leads the NL in SO. He misses bats, I don’t know what else some people want.

  9. EndlessMike says:

    Joba yes but no way Manny.The yankees only leverage is the Tigers are the only competition.And The Tigers are on that no=trade list.

  10. Stryker says:

    so does a move for acquiring haren mean hughes to the bullpen? i think i’ve had enough of this jerking around of pitching prospects. it’s seemingly ruined chamberlain and while hughes has responded positively to both moves, i would hate for the same kind of complete lack of faith in stuff to happen him as well.

    • mike c says:

      the yankees are definitely the hardest team to break into if you’re a young pitcher for sure, but joba’s gotta sack up if he wants the job, the yankees do not want another AJ type to deal with. joba’s got the talent, discipline and focus will be the key to his success in NY

      • mike c says:

        sorry for the sideways convo, the heat is getting to me. yes i think hughes will go to the bullpen once his IP limit is reached

        • Stryker says:

          right, i understand he’ll move there when his IP limit is reached – but say the yanks land haren come the trade deadline. i’d hate to see hughes get shuffled around like this yet again. sure, we can all spin it positively and say he will add stability and whatnot. what i’m concerned with is this organization’s inability to adequately develop starting pitching. i, for one, thought they were going the right way when they stuck joba, IPK, and hughes in the rotation in ’08. obviously the injury and ineffectiveness bug bit them all pretty hard, but it’s one glaring hole in such a strong organization.

          it’s like the yanks are afraid to throw one of their prized young guys out there or something; always trying to fill holes through trades for stronger arms or elite free agents. this still rings true here in their talks for haren. sure, haren is javy insurance for next year and beyond but hughes would be in no shape to pitch a full season YET AGAIN. it’s awfully frustrating.

          • jim p says:

            Hughes has another 60 innings or so before he reaches his limits. So 9 or 10 starts eats them all up about the 2nd week of September.

            Say Haren arrives, fills in for Andy for 3 weeks, which takes us through 4 or 5 starts, or 30 innings, and then Hughes has 30 innings left for the 2nd part of August, all of September.

            So I don’t see that Hughes would be hurt for next year. He’ll also have innings, likely, in at least a 1st round of playoffs, and maybe through the Series.

    • bexarama says:

      I think once Hughes reached his innings limit, he was going to the bullpen anyway. If we get Haren or whoever, I think they’re very careful with easing Pettitte back.

      • Right, we might not see And until September. Don’t forget how “gassed” Andy said he was during the WS last year. He said he had nothing by then. A month off will do him good.

        • bexarama says:

          Very much agreed. Of course I’d love to see Andy back ASAP but I think him talking about how he thinks he’ll be back sooner rather than later is just Andy being Andy. And Girardi’s very cautious with his pitchers, too.

          • And Girardi’s very cautious with his pitchers, too.

            It’s a luxury the Yanks have that most teams don’t. One that can pay dividends the deeper you get into the season, whih is what the Yanks are all about.

            That’s why when people complain about lineups in April/May and skipping a pitcher’s turn here and there, I’m just dumbfounded. They really don’t understand how this team operates or how long the season is.

    • Yes, Hughes would be the one to go once Andy comes back. But he’s on a innings limit anyway, so you kill two birds by fixing the pen and keeping his innings down at the same time.

      Also, going from starting to the bullpen is no problem, stretching a guy out mid season to slot into the rotation is where some people get worried. That how Joba got hurt in 2008.

      • Stryker says:

        yes i understand that. the problem i have is that it does nothing to adequately develop starting pitching and hughes will again struggle with an innings limit and we’ll be in the same position regardless.

        • YankeeFan says:

          How so? I understand everyone is excited about Andy’s comments but do you believe this org. will risk making him come back early at his age? You acquire a starting pitcher (if possible for the right price), and by the time Andy does come back, Hughes will go to the bullpen for the last 2 months (hopefully Sept/Oct) and then next season he is on free reigns.

        • phughesisgod says:

          This. I think people are assuming that with Haren brings Hughes to the bullpen. But what ever happened to Javy being the one to be dealt if Lee came? I really think Cashman would be really smart to make Vazquez available for prospects if we get Haren. I mean, it would be all out war pretty much for Javy between STL, PHI, NYM, DET, MIN, LAD and others. I think this is the Astros worst nightmare that the Yankees get Haren before they deal Oswalt since Javy would become the #1 pitcher available and knowing the Yankees, they would hold out until they get the offer they want and that would bring minimal time left to deal Oswalt.

          • Tosh says:

            The point of getting Haren is to stablize the rotation. Trading Vazquez doesn’t make sense. Vazquez would have been available when Pettitte WAS healthy if Cliff Lee came here. Now that he’s injured, they will need Javy.

  11. phughesisgod says:

    So much for the Yankees not in on Oswalt. They are sending scouts to watch him pitch tonight, along with the Cardinals, the Phillies and the Dodgers. If the Yankees get either Oswalt or Haren, it would be a nightmare scenario come true for either the D’Backs or the Astros since the Yankees would probably be more inclined to try to deal Javy, and he would be the #1 pitcher on the market if made available.

  12. nsalem says:

    The plan at the beginning of the year was to have Phil pitch out the year and have him skip starts when the occasion arose. It’s July 24
    and we are at 60-35 which is our best record since 1998. Things are going well. If Andy had suffered a season ending injury I would see the necessity for Haren. Now I see it as fixing something that does not seem broken. Hughes will probably be in the Bullpen in October anyway and hopefully Joba will find himself. I hope the Yankees pickup somebody to do what we hoped Park would and find someone to replace Johnson who probably isn’t coming back. With those additions we will be much better than we are now, and now we are pretty good. Stay the couse!!

    • The rotation isn’t broken, but the bullpen is. You slot Haren into the rotation and put Hughes in the 8th inning, which keeps his innings down and fixes the bridge to Mo problem. That’s the same thing that would have happened if they would have got Lee.

      BTW-The fact that the Yanks have been in on TWO starters this year should tell you something about how they feel about Joba. That’s why any idea that he’s “off-limits” is just nonsense. They’ll try to keep him, but push comes to shove and I’ll bet he’s in this deal.

    • nsalem says:

      Okay then lets try to get the best reliever available or/and consider handing the job to Robertson. We will have Hughes in the bullpen in October anyway. I see your point but I don’t think we should change one component that is working to fix another, when there are other options available. We clearly defined a role for Hughes in the beginning of the year and I see an importance in sticking to it. If we needed him in the bullpen now in order to make the playoffs I can see doing this, but that is not the case.

  13. cranky says:

    The Yankees don’t have a lefty in their farm system anywhere near the talent of Manny Banuelos. They would be foolish to trade him away. Someone brought up Cashman’s willingness to deal Arodys Vizcaino in the deal for Vasquez. Different situation. #1 The Yanks really, really needed a solid starter. #2 As someone else pointed out, Jose Ramirez came on strong and “replaced” Vizcaino on the prospect depth chart. If Az is now insisting on Banuelos, we should all hope that the Haren deal is dead. Haren would be great to have, but, he is not needed. There is no one in the Yanks’ farm system to replace Banuelos on the depth chart.
    You want a comp for this kid? Think “young Johan Santana.” Does that make him seem good enough?
    As for Cash’s “unwillingness to trade Joba,” I’m sure that’s bull. Haren would be more valuable to the Yanks at this point in time than Joba, and, at 28 years old, still has plenty of good years ahead of him. The strength of the Yanks’ farm system is RH pitching and catching. If they deal, that’s where they deal from.

    • nsalem says:

      Haren will be 30 in september (which doesn’t make much of a difference0

    • vinny-b says:

      “As for Cash’s “unwillingness to trade Joba,” I’m sure that’s bull”

      let’s hope so. However, the same reports were made in the past off-season. Which is when they should have traded him

    • Mr. Maker says:

      I don’t see how you can be so high on Banuelos but not on Joba. If anyone has the higher ceiling I think it’s Joba.

      Don’t get me wrong though, I would certainly be against trading Banuelos.

  14. vinny-b says:

    if you have the chance to turn Joba Chamberlain into Dan Haren, then you do it.

    Manny Banuelos, on the other hand, i prefer to keep.

    Joba + Nova + pick up all remaining salary

    GET IT DONE.

  15. nolan says:

    anyone else ready to trade granderson? If we can get Haren, deal Javy and Curtis for Werth and a reliever or two? Isnt that drastically upgrading the team?

    • Tom Zig says:

      What good would attempting to trade Granderson do? His value is pretty low right now. Selling low is always a poor decision.

      • Mike Pop says:

        Yeah, I’m cool with dealing Javy is they acquire Haren – maybe try to restock the system or get Werth w/e. But dealing Curtis, while his value is this low seems silly to me.

      • Poopy Pants says:

        Everyone seems with selling low on Joba, though.

    • JLew says:

      Are you kidding me? Granderson is signed affordably for several more years and should soon have a comeback season. Werth is a free agent after this year and has slumped recently, and is not as competent in the OF. You then need another starter in place of Javy and the net draft picks cancel. A lose-lose.

  16. Captain Jack says:

    If the Yankees deal Chamberlain, Nova, Noesi, and ZMac for Haren and get maybe Chris Snyder and the D-Backs to eat salary I’d consider that a major coup. They’ve clearly lost faith in Chamberlain, Nova doesn’t have a long term future on the team, Noesi has fringy stuff and really isn’t a good fit for the Stadium, and ZMac’s GB rates have went south.

  17. I just crunched the numbers, and Haren has been exactly the same pitcher in the AL East as he has been everywhere else, including the “AAAA” NL West. I’ll have a post on the manana.

  18. claybeez says:

    There was some discussion and contention regarding trading Granderson recently. The idea to deal him while going after a better performing bat, i.e. Werth. The (vast) majority thought it was a bad idea given that the Yanks would be selling low.

    Yet, with Joba, the consensus seems to be to include him in a deal for Haren. Joba, advanced metrics aside, is considered by many to be underperforming. As a RP, he also has less value now than he did as a starter, despite the fact a new team may have him go back to starting.

    I’m not looking to rehash the Granderson discussion. I’m trying to understand how seemingly selling low on Granderson and Joba is met with disparate responses by the RAB community. What variables lead one to have such a different reaction from the other? Do many feel it would not, in fact, be selling low on Joba? Is it “Joba fatigue”? I’m curious.

    • Tom Zig says:

      Trading Joba and getting back Haren would not be selling low. Trading Granderson and getting back poop in return is

      • claybeez says:

        So, it’s about feeling that Granderson won’t net back a solid major leaguer nor solid prospects? I’m surprised. He’s still young and cost-controlled. I’d have thought his track record would still make him more valuable than Joba who has not put together a solid, full season.

        OK. At least I get where everyone’s coming from. In general, I’m not that keen on dealing Joba. He’s only 24. I think he can still be a good SP for the Yanks. If they’re never going to return him to starting, then it’s a no-brainer to deal for Haren. However, if Cash hasn’t given up on his potential as a SP, I’m not sure I’m sold enough on Haren to include him. I guess it depends on the causes of his struggles this year and whether that home run rate can be brought back down.

        • Tom Zig says:

          He’s still young and cost-controlled.

          Exactly the reason why we should give him more than 1 season to turn his game around. Giving up on him after this amount of time reeks of the old Steinbrenner way of doing business. I still have faith that Curtis will be productive offensively for the Yankees. Whether it be now or for years down the line. You definitely want to hold onto Curtis Granderson. He is a rare player. Speed, power, and defense from CF? I’ll take that any day of the week and twice on sundays.

          • poster on another computer says:

            Steinbrenner won 7 World Series.

            People act like the 90′s rought about this big change in organizational philosophy. It didn’t. We just happened to trade the right guys for the right guys. So the question is, do you think Dan Haren is worth Joba?

            I think so.

          • Sweet Dick Willie says:

            Giving up on him after this amount of time reeks of the old Steinbrenner way of doing business.

            Not really, for two reasons.

            1) The old way was to deal a promising prospect for an over the hill player (Buhner for Phelps, McGriff for Murray). Dan Haren is a legitimate MLB pitcher in his prime on a slightly below average contract.

            2) They gave up on him when they banished him to the bullpen. If they plan on using him as a starter next year, I’d be inclined to keep him. But it’s always worth it to trade a reliever (not named Mo) for a starter of Haren’s caliber.

      • Poopy Pants says:

        Do you know what ‘selling low’ means?
        People need to stop throwing around phrases they hear on talk radio.

    • ROBTEN says:

      The reason I and others don’t see the problem with “selling low” on Joba is that Joba-the-reliever is not really worth much to the team. Even the most stable reliever is worth significantly less over the course of a season than a moderate starter. If the Yankees’ plan is to keep Joba in the pen, then it makes much more sense to get more value from acquiring Haren or another starter than Joba would provide to the team. This would, of course, become a more complex discussion if Joba were a starter or if it seemed like the team had any serious thoughts about making him a starter again.

      In regards to trading Granderson, the problem is that unless you trade him for another young, cost-controlled center fielder or better you’re not maximizing his value to the team. Yes, he is struggling this year and has been for roughly two seasons. But, to trade him simply to move him because you’re frustrated with him is “selling low” with very little chance of getting back his value.

      So, to summarize: Trading Joba-the-reliever for Haren or another starter increases your teams’ overall expected value going forward. Trading Granderson for anything less than equivalent value, which you will probably not get right now, will effectively decrease your teams’ overall value.

      • nolan says:

        Dont we have another young, cost controlled center fielder in brett gardner? Gardner is a quality player and is only going to keep improving with experience. If we can aquire Haren and spin Javy and Granderson off for bullpen and a left fielder who isnt a platoon player…I think the yanks are better off. Are we selling low on Granderson? Maybe. Maybe this is as good as he gets though…in which case we’re selling as high as we can… before everyone else figures out that he’s just not that good.

        • ROBTEN says:

          1. If you trade Javy, who is going to pitch when Hughes reaches his innings limits?

          2. If you trade either Javy or Granderson for a reliever you have been ripped off. Javy and/or Granderson are both individually worth more than a reliever.

          3. What “left-fielder who isn’t a platoon player” are you going to get for either Javy or Granderson? If you say Werth, then who is going to play the outfield next year? Is Crawford really worth the kind of money he’s going to demand? Further, if you’re talking about a Granderson for another outfielder swap, what realistic trade do you see happening?

          4. I’m not sure why everyone wants to dump on Granderson except that Yankee fans always need someone on the team to hate, but if he’s so bad that its obvious that they should trade him, then what makes you think that any other team would give you anything of value for him. In other words, if it looks like the Yankees are giving up so quickly on Granderson, then teams are not going to give you anything of value in return and you’re back at question #2.

          Even though these points are interlaced with my opinion, I ask these questions seriously. If you are going to advocate dumping Granderson and/or Javy, then what are your proposals for replacing them?

          • Angelo says:

            I can’t believe that guy said Granderson is possibly at his highest value right now.

            Nolan, I hope you realize that Granderson has been a really good player throughout his career. To think that he won’t play any better in his prime years wouldn’t make sense.

            He’s a good player that will play better. Trading him now would be absolutely stupid.

    • Chris A says:

      I think many people are tired of Joba and feel that he’ll just be a mediocre pitcher for the rest of his career. In addition, the argument that both Joba and Haren will be free agents in 2013 is worth considering. It’s very possible that Haren will outperform Joba through 2013. Still, I’d be very hesitant to trade Joba. However, if the Yankees have no intention to put Joba back into the rotation in the future, then I think I’d have no problem including him in a trade for Haren.

      • claybeez says:

        I appreciate the responses. I agree that trading Joba the reliever is an easy choice. I felt differently about dealing Joba the starter. With the added info that he and Haren will both be free agents at the same time, dealing Joba, starter or reliever seems the right course of action. I’d bet on Haren over Joba for the same term. Of course it also depends on what else Zona expects back.

  19. All Star Carl says:

    Montero left the game after being hit in the wrist :(

  20. Pat D says:

    ::looks around and sees no one else has said it yet::

    Oh, the waiting game sucks. Let’s play Hungry Hungry Hippos!

  21. Zanath says:

    Eh, I just get the feeling this trade isn’t going to happen. That’s just my gut, anyway.

    • Angelo says:

      I feel the same way, but you never know. The two teams are still talking.

      • Zanath says:

        Oh of course. I’ve learned in this sport that anything can happen. And I do hope we can get a deal done. And if it doesn’t, hopefully Andy can get back soon. As long as Hughes can get back on track and AJ builds off his last start, having Mitre for another 4 or 5 starts shouldn’t kill our chances at the division. But boy, Haren would certainly help us.

  22. nathan says:

    Is it wonderful that the Yanks are balking over money or is it a little worrisome that they are balking over money.

    • Zanath says:

      Yeah. If that is true, it would seem St. Louis and Detroit are our real competitors. And probably more St. Louis than Detroit. Of course, the D’Backs could always opt not to trade him if they don’t find a deal they like.

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