Probably a Yankee by any other name

Open Thread: A Tribute to Thames
Damned if you do...
Visual proof that Carl Pavano did indeed make some starts for the Yankees. (AP Photo/Kathy Willens)

After Cliff Lee shocked the baseball world and signed with the Phillies, I wasn’t quite sure what the Yankees would do, but I thought they might kick the tires on the second-best free agent pitcher on the market. After all, with Andy Pettitte‘s 2011 role uncertain and A.J. Burnett‘s ability to get outs under fire, the Yankees need someone to throw quality innings, and this free agent could do that.

Over the past two seasons, this free agent had pitched reasonably well. Splitting time between a bottom feeder and a division leader in 2009 and spending all of 2010 with the AL Central champs, he went 31-23 with a 4.39 ERA and a FIP around 4.01 in 420 innings. He posted a combined K/9 IP of 5.7 but saw his strike outs dip from 6.6 per 9 innings in 2009 to 4.8 in 2010. It didn’t matter though because he allowed just one home run every nine innings and gave up the second fewest bases on balls in the AL. With a heavy sinker, he also exhibited ground-ball tendencies, a trait that allows a pitcher to succeed with low strike-out rates.

There was but one problem: His name was Carl Pavano, and he had a history with the Yankees. His history, as we well know, wasn’t just any history; it was an injury-filled disastrous history that saw many questioning his desire to play baseball and others accusing him of flat-out ripping off the Yankees. Pavano signed a four-year, $39.95 million deal with the Yankees and made just 26 starts over the course of the deal. It was an epic disaster.

Of course, at the time of Pavano’s signing in December of 2004, the deal wasn’t a bad one, and it’s often easy to forget that. After the Yanks’ epic 2004 ALCS collapse, the team needed pitching, and Pavano hit the market after back-to-back 200-inning seasons. The Yanks’ 2003 World Series loss was fresh in the Front Office’s mind, and Pavano was one of the arms that had stymied the Yanks’ bats. So the wooing began.

It was quite the courtship. Pavano made the tour of the league, stopping in Boston, Detroit, New York, Baltimore and Seattle. Everybody wanted the right-hander, and he had his choice of destinations. Eventually, he landed with New York and called it a “dream come true.”

That dream though became a nightmare. By mid-2006, Pavano had, as ESPN.com reported, sustained “shoulder, back, buttocks and elbow injuries” and had neglected to inform the team that he had broken his ribs in a car accident in Florida while out on a rehab assignment. By early 2007, he had made doubters out of his teammates. “It didn’t look good from a player’s and teammate’s standpoint,” Mike Mussina said during Spring Training. “Was everything just coincidence? Over and over again? I don’t know…It got to a point where we just didn’t want to even hear about it or talk about it anymore.”

After drawing the Opening Day start in 2007 due to injuries to everyone else on the Yankees, Pavano went down in mid-April with an elbow strain. He eventually needed Tommy John surgery and would not return to the field until late 2008. By then, the Yankees were ready to say good bye and slam the door shut on that era.

Yet, two years later, the team has found itself without pitching, and as Mike detailed earlier, they turned to Pavano this winter. GM Brian Cashman had, according to Ken Rosenthal, “several conversations” with Pavano’s agent, and Pavano “seriously” considered a return to the Bronx. As Rosenthal reported, Pavano “even [told] friends at one point that he intended to rejoin the team.”

The ultimate hang-up was one of dollars. The Yanks had offered a one-year deal, and when the Twins guaranteed a second season, Pavano jumped at their offer. He took fewer annual dollars in exchange the security of a second year, and the reunion-to-be turned into one that never was.

It’s no longer worth justifying anything surrounding Carl Pavano. He either suffered through bad luck or a poor mind. He could have come back to the Yanks to salvage his reputation, but he would have been received far, far worse treatment than Javier Vazquez did last year. In fact, the fan reaction to Vazquez would would have seemed like a giant group hug in comparison.

Unfortunately for the Yanks’ rotation and for Pavano, the biggest sticking point is that he is, in fact, Carl Pavano. Perhaps the Twins’ second year saved Brian Cashman from himself for the second season in a row. But if Carl Pavano were some other pitcher with similar numbers, chances are that he would have been fitted for pinstripes by now.

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Open Thread: A Tribute to Thames
Damned if you do...
  • FIPster Doofus

    I would have welcomed him back with open arms, given the 3-4-5 in the rotation right now. Oh well.

    • Avi

      Wow. Common sense ain’t too common.

      • Sayid J.

        I would have taken him back too…

      • Plank

        He kept getting injured. It sucked. But having Tommy John surgery and getting into a car accident doesn’t mean he’s not a “gamer” or can’t handle New York. He just had a bunch of unfortunate incidents in that 4 year span.

        • Sayid J.

          And I’ll never like the guy, but could he provide an upgrade over Mitre/Nova? Yes.

      • FIPster Doofus

        Agreed, as evidenced by your post. Pavano is worlds better than Mitre or any current free-agent pitcher.

      • Pasqua

        Common sense would actually dictate that he couldn’t be as bad / unlucky as he was the first time around. I hated the guy, but considering the current state of affairs and Pavano’s “rebound” in the last couple of years, I would have been okay with it.

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

    How the heck did you find an actual picture of Carl Pavano pitching in a Yankee uniform? That’s photoshopped, right?

    (Good article. Part of me aaaaalmost wishes it had happened, just for the reactions.)

  • mike c

    it wouldn’t be a bad baseball decision… the people who maybe are more thoughtful and a little more open minded than the average fan wouldn’t care, but it would be a terrible business decision. it’s the same thing with the jeter/soriano dealings– sometimes the ‘right’ move is not always the best for business

  • John

    I don’t believe it,That pic has got to be photo shopped

  • Avi

    Great post Ben. I think you sum up how most of us fan feel. I love this site and want to visit it often. So please no photos of Pavano at all. Seeing him makes my blood boil.

  • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com Joe DiMaggio’s Ego-Ghost

    Best. Photoshop. Ever.

    • Mike HC

      haha

  • Mike HC

    Cashman was again willing to give him 9 or 10 million to pitch for the Yanks for one season? He is either f’ing insane and delusional, or really, really sma … who am I kidding, he is f’ing insane and delusional.

    “Perhaps the Twins’ second year saved Brian Cashman from himself for the second season in a row.” – – This was the main line of the article right here. I have been a pretty big Cashman fan and supporter, but these past two off season have really been pretty bad and disappointing from my perspective. The one move I liked, signing Soriano to a three year deal max, Cashman disapproved of.

    • Avi

      If Cashman was really considering bringing Pavano back he shouldn’t be allowed to reproduce.

      • Mike HC

        Bringing Javy back was mind boggling. Wanting to bring Pavano back for like 9 or 10 million dollars is … I can’t even come up with a accurate enough adjective for that. Maybe some kind of post traumatic stress syndrome or something. A legitimate mental disorder.

        • Avi

          I TOTALLY agree. I was shocked they brought back Vazquez. I still can’t believe how many smart people liked that move. I don’t think I’ll ever understand it.

          • Mike HC

            It is an arrogance maybe. Like they are so smart they can look past what all us peons see and rise above it.

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

              Not for anything, but he’s the GM for a reason. You’re allowed to criticize, but looking at things objectively isn’t a bad thing at all, especially considering the Yankees’ rotation right now.

              • Mike HC

                Yes, and my criticism is that I think he is arrogant, at best, and mentally ill at worst, to continually bring back guys, or attempt to bring back guys that were such a disaster the first time he brought them in. “Patience” sounds like the best strategy ever compared to re signing Pavano. Give me Millwood or Garcia over Pavano too. I don’t even think Pavano would be a good bet to pitch that well in Yankee Stadium and the AL East if he was healthy, which we all know is no guarantee either.

                • Colombo

                  The point of the article is that, had it been anyone else, the Yankees would have been right to sign. You cannot ignore his performance of the past two years. Dislike of a name is no reason to not sign someone. Not wanting to go to two years is.

                  If you have an opening on your team, you have to look at the best available player to fill said hole. Pavano fits that description.

                  • Mike HC

                    I get the point of the article, but I can’t be objective. Subjectively, Pavano was such an utter disaster not even I would be willing to give him another dime to pitch for the greatest franchise ever. And I am usually the first one to say, especially on one year deals, that it is not my money, and rather have a guy on the team than not. Not Pavano though. I will through objective analysis out the window. So shoot me.

                    • Mike HC

                      *throw, not through

                  • Babnik

                    “If you have an opening on your team, you have to look at the best available player to fill said hole.”

                    Or if you’re the Yankees you also consider the character of the player – since there’s a level of self-less-ness and dedication expected in this organization as opposed to say, the Red sox.

                    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

                      …since there’s a level of self-less-ness and dedication expected in this organization…

                      Of all the things people have said about Pavano, this might be the most ridiculous claim. How many Yankee greats who were adored by fans were among the most selfish players in the game? I can think of more than a few — including current team employee Reggie Jackson — who fit the bill.

        • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

          Pavano for 1/10 >>>>>>>>>> Soriano for 3/35

          • Mike HC

            Not in my opinion.

            • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

              There is no three-year period in Rafael Soriano’s professional career during which he has stayed healthy the entire time.

              • Mike HC

                4 out of the past 5 years ain’t bad.

                • pete

                  4 out of the past 7 is

              • Avi

                There is no 4 month period where Pavano pitched for the Yankees without going on the DL. There was also never a time Pavano pitched effectively for the Yankees. If you think bringing Pavano back for $10M is a better deal than Soriano’s there’s something VERY wrong with your baseball prognosticating skills.

                • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

                  So having a different opinion than you about the relative worth of Rafael Soriano vs. Carl Pavano means something’s very wrong with me. I see.

                  • Avi

                    The word worth and Pavano don’t belong together. Nothing wrong with you just your baseball prognosticating skills.

                  • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

                    As I said in the post, if his name was not Carl Pavano and this other pitcher had put up the numbers he had put up over the last two seasons, Yankee fans would falling all over themselves urging the team to sign him. It’s bad luck that he’s Carl Pavano.

                    • Mike HC

                      “It’s bad luck that he’s Carl Pavano.”

                      Now that is the line of the night!!!

                • Sayid J.

                  Fangraphs has Pavano pegged for 190+ innings of slightly above league average pitching, good for 3.2 WAR.

                  On the other hand, they project Soriano to be a dominant bullpen force for 60-70 innings and collect 1.8 WAR.

                  Not to mention Pavano would have been on a cheaper, more flexible contract.

                  I know this is a polarizing issue, but Ben’s prognosticating skills are just fine.

                  • Avi

                    Oh my god. I gonna leave this conversation. You guys are pissing me off.

                    • Sayid J.

                      Hey, it’s not as if I’m a Carl Pavano enthusiast here. I’m just acknowledging that the Yankees have a need at SP that could have been filled by Pavano. You are welcome to hate him, but nothing wrong with engaging in some debate…

                    • FIPster Doofus

                      Good idea. You’re clearly incapable of evaluating the situation objectively.

                    • jsbrendog (returns)

                      please dont ever come back

                    • Pasqua

                      You should be able to get right through to WFAN at 1:15 AM.

                    • Plank

                      jsbrendog: Why would you say that? He had a differing viewpoint and defended it (poorly,) Why would you want him never to read or comment on articles in the future? If the website doesn’t want him here, they will ban him. They won’t, because what he said was fine, just extreme (and in my view, illogical.)

                      What you said was way too vicious and mean for the tenor of the conversation up to that point.

                    • jsbrendog (returns)

                      plank, there is nothing wrong with what i said but there is with your interpretation of it. he said he is leaving this conversation. and i told him never to come back to thsi conversation. for 2 days he has been carpet bombing the threads with ignorant, ill informed and completely irrational hatred of carl pavano and has been unable to engage in an educated, calm discussion. therefore my comment is completely justified and he should not join in any discussion involving carl pavanao again.

                      so i stand by exactly what i said.

                    • Plank

                      jsbrendog: You are telling him not to share his viewpoints anymore. So what if he is wrong? Either he will see he is wrong, or he won’t, but telling him not to write anymore because you disagree with him seems wrong to me. I have rational viewpoints, and I’ve had that type of vitriol hurled at me. It doesn’t feel good. Whether he has ridiculous viewpoints or not, he’s a human. Someone telling you to leave and never come back isn’t a good feeling.

                      Would you prefer everyone saying exactly what you think?

                    • jsbrendog (returns)

                      dude. seriously? i don’t know why but you don’t seem to be picking up what im putting down. i could care less about his opinion. he has nothing constructive to add. commenting on everyone’s opinion that pavano sucks and is an asshole and i hate him and id rather pay a hobo 20 mill to dance brings NOTHING to the convo. if he cant verbalize his opinion in a civilized manner he should just keep quiet. again, i regret nothing and stand by everything.

                    • jsbrendog (returns)

                      take mike hc for example. i disagree with everything he says on this pavano issue. but he engages in a civlized conversation while also working in his digs at the guy. fair enough. i respect his opinion because it is an opinion.

                      pavano is teh suxoriest douchenoz isnt an opinion.

            • Pasqua

              I think you’re suffering from “new toy” syndrome. So, Soriano is a good deal even though he hasn’t had a healthy track record, while Pavano is a bad deal because he hasn’t had a healthy track record? The difference? One has not pitched for the Yankees, one has.

              • Mike HC

                You know, maybe I am the one with post traumatic stress syndrome. After four years of Pavano, who wants to re live that misery? ha

          • Sayid J.

            A more efficient use of resources for sure. Scary, but I would’ve loved to have Pavano back at this point.

            • Avi

              Spending $20M a year on Soriano is a more efficient use of resources than paying Pavano a dollar.

              • Sayid J.

                Probably not.

              • Plank

                I’m confused. Are you saying you like Pavano, or are you saying you don’t like Pavano? You should make more posts asserting your position, so that it is clearer.

              • pete

                hyperbole never helps an argument. I would say that Pavano and Soriano would have been worth identical incentive-laden contracts: 1 year, 5 million, 6 million in incentives for staying on the field (1 million per month).

                The yankees need for a slightly above average starter is WAYYYYY higher than their need for a dominant reliever right now.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      I don’t think last off season was bad. There were signings that worked and some that didn’t. I think his last off season was fair. But we have different perspectives so it’s cool.

  • Squishy Jello Person

    Is it me, or does it look like there are midges in the photo(shop) ?

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      It looks like rain.

      Which means a drop probably fell on him funny and he was out for three months with acute rashitis.

      • Squishy Jello Person

        Rashitis.

        Bahahah. I like.

    • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

      Raindrops, if I had to guess

  • Rey22

    Thank god.

  • Preston

    I’m not surprised Cashman went after him for one year at the right price he’s obviously better than the alternative FA’s. Obviously it would be an unpopular decision with the fans who lean more towards emotional than logical decision making (we are all guilty of this at one time or another). I personally would have vomited in my mouth if we’d signed him and then convinced myself that it was a logical decision, while my stomach would always be sick watching him pitch in pin-stripes.

    What I can’t believe is that he would ever consider coming back to New York. He has plenty of money. This isn’t a Cliff Lee situation where a couple of fans said mean things to his wife kind of deterrent. This was four years where an entire fan base, the entire organization (save Cashman) and even some team-mates questioned his ability, work ethic, desire and integrity (criticism in my mind well deserved). Now that you’ve resurrected your career and when you already have tens of millions in the bank would an extra million entice you to go back into that situation? If I was in Carl Pavano’s shoes my pride wouldn’t allow me to get back into that situation for any amount of money.

    • Sayid J.

      Agreed. It actually says a lot about him that he’d be willing to come back. If I were him I’d avoid NY at all costs.

      • Preston

        Of course it might not have been sincere interest on his part. He might have just been using us to drive up the twins offer. This is what I will choose to believe so I can continue to dislike him.

        • Sayid J.

          Haha very true. You are welcome to continue to dislike him, I will as well. At the same time, you gotta think that Pavano (or at least some piece of him) wanted to come back and prove everyone wrong. It’s only human nature to want to succeed when nobody thinks you can. Of course, negotiating plays a major role as well, but I have a feeling that Pavano genuinely would’ve wanted to have a chance to prove everyone wrong.

          • Mike HC

            Even if he did come back for this one year and pitched effectively, it would not have erased that four year period where he contributed nothing, lied to the team, alienated his teammates and turned the greatest city in the worth against him for 40 million dollars.

            • Mike HC

              *world, not worth, obviously.

            • Sayid J.

              It wouldn’t erase it, but I don’t care if it gets erased. I care if the Yankees are a better team with him than without him. Trust me, I don’t like the guy either.

            • jsbrendog (returns)

              dude, relax. he lied to the team about being injured so he COULD PITCH knowing full well if he told them he wouldnt be able to pitch. jesus. revisionist fuckin history

              • Mike HC

                You guys are far more forgiving than me.

  • mustang

    I would have taken him back at this point I would take Ed Whitson back rather then seeing Mitre every 5 days.

  • Sayid J.

    Fun fact: The often injured, always hated Carl Pavano has pitched more innings over the past 2 seasons than Rafael Soriano has pitched in his entire 9 year career.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      Well, to be fair, Pavano’s been totally healthy the past two seasons and relievers vs. starters isn’t really a fair comp to begin with

      • Sayid J.

        Well I know it’s not a fair comp to begin with in terms of innings, but isn’t that the point that Ben/myself/others have tried to make? Pavano at 1/10 would have been a better signing than Soriano? Part of that reasoning stems from the fact that Pavano would likely pitch 3x as many innings as Soriano assuming they both stayed healthy or assuming they are both equally likely to hit the DL.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          Ahhh okay, didn’t know that was the point you were trying to make. Agreed, Pavano for $10M for one year is better than what Soriano got. And that’s not saying Pavano for $10M makes me any sort of excited (though let’s face it, if it was not Carl Pavano that’d be totally reasonable to almost everyone here I think), just I hate Soriano’s deal, mutter mutter.

          • Sayid J.

            Yea, neither Soriano 3/35 or Pavano 1/10 is ideal. But Pavano, somehow, might be the lesser of two evils. I think Boras has really just dominated the Yankees FO over the last few years. I guess he does the same thing to everyone, but he somehow creates a market for players when there isn’t one.

            I wonder what would have happened if Levine had said “We’ll give you 3/27 and that’s our final offer.” Could Boras have beaten that elsewhere? I doubt it. Not that 9 million a year for Soriano is ideal either, but you get the picture.

  • Moo Chow Loo

    If Pavano was signed to any kind of deal with the Yankees, I’m pretty sure he would have been stabbed to death in the first 3 innings of his first start.

    He is a giant bag of douche. I wish nothing but the worst for him.

    • Sayid J.

      Classy.

    • Mike HC

      Good point. That 9-10 million did not even take into account that the Yankees would have needed to up the security for all of his starts (which might not have been that many knowing Pavano like we do).

  • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

    Thank you Minnesota. It would have made me physically ill to see Carl Pavano in a Yankees uniform again.

  • A.D.

    There generally is no such thing as a bad 1 year deal, even a reuniting with Pavano

    • FIPster Doofus

      Especially when you have a shitload of money to spend and a pressing need for effective starting pitching. Pavano is better than both Nova and Mitre, and possibly Burnett; thus, he would’ve been a nice pickup on a one-year deal.

  • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

    Yankees looking into Carl Pavano because of two years of pitching following many years of not pitching seems familiar some how.

  • Beantown Bombers Fan

    I look forward to the day when I can tell my grandkids about attending my last game at the House that Ruth built, which was started by … Carl Pavano. Great breakdown, Ben.

    • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

      I was at that game too.

  • choochoo

    Bringing back Nicky Johnson at this time last year also semed to be a great idea. Bad luck for us that he turned out to be Nicky Johnson.

    • jsbrendog (returns)

      they were who we thought they were

  • Noseeum

    Decent article, but it’s greatly diminished by the lack of editing. Way too many errors in this post. If necessary have one of your co-writers preview. Very simple way to significantly improve the product.

    • Moo Chow Loo

      “Way too many errors in this post.”

      I think you forgot to add a verb somewhere in there Professor, but thanks for dropping mad knowledge on us.

      • Pasqua

        Well done.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      Two sentence fragments and a missing comma. Tsk, tsk.

      • jsbrendog (returns)

        he’s probably a bronx school teacher. gunma cansel his seazon tix

        • noseeum

          Yep, that’s what I’m going to do. Durr.

          Why are you wasting time defending the lack of proper syntax in an otherwise thoughtful article? I’m sure you agree it would in fact be better without the errors. And I’m sure Mr. Kabak would love to have back a couple of minutes to go back and change “severely” to “several” in his link within the article (or “annually” to “annual”).

          These are simple things that take no time at all and add immense value to the article. I wasn’t trying to be a d*ck about it, but I would hope Mr. Kabak would appreciate the feedback. And I’m sure he does.

          • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

            We know you weren’t trying to pick a dick about it, but we’ve asked if readers could please contact us via the email addresses above when they spot typos instead of posting them in the comments. Thanks for the help. I’ve made the changes.

            • noseeum

              Will do. Thanks.

  • Sal

    The Yankees could have afforded both Pavano and Soriano, Pavano for one yr would have been the move on paper especially adding Soriano, which will be a better deal then the Value crowd give the Sori move credit for here in January.

    Did anybody ask Pavano if he wanted to come back to NY? And how many of you all think Pavano’s agent used NY as leverage to get his client another yr? Cashman is quoted saying (Pavano) has proven he can pitch in some difficult situations. The thing is, he’s healthy. I don’t think he was afraid to come back here, either.”

    Somehow the NY media seems a lot more difficult to deal with the the corp in Minny, and after the Javy deal double that pressure for both the GM and the player. Why are we in thisc in the first place?

  • Jorge

    I would rather go 0-162 than ever see this man in pinstripes. I would rather look in the phone book and see what Tim Leary, Chuck Cary, Jeff Johnson, and Wade Taylor are up to.

    • jsbrendog (returns)

      no, no you wouldn’t. and if you really mean this then maybe you should sit the next few plays out killer

    • Plank

      He had Tommy John surgery. He got in a car accident. He got muscle strains. All the injuries were clustered in his Yankee career which sucks, but he’s not a piece of garbage. He just had bad luck while a Yankee. Unless you think he purposely blew out his arm and got in a car accident.

      But you would rather throw away the season instead of having him on the team again. Okay.

      • jsbrendog (returns)

        and he lied about the car accident so he could pitch! he couldve easily been like oops, hurt, oh well,. scrw it, pay me. but he tried to pitch through broken ribs. if this was football hed be a gamer. hate the break and the double standard

        • Babnik

          Being a gamer means playing hurt AND contributing to a team effort. Pitching poorly when you’re injured and not being forthcoming with the coaching staff about the injury is not helpful to anyone – especially the team.

          • Plank

            What else does a “gamer” do? How would he pitch with broken ribs? How would he pitch right after TJS?

      • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

        He also has the bruised buttocks, the mystery ailment in 2005, and needed three or four opinions before he found a doctor willing to operate on him for the Tommy John surgery.

        Bad luck is being kind.

        • Plank

          The “bruised buttocks” was his fault? What mystery ailment of 2005 are you referring to? Do you really think he was faking injuries? Why didn’t he do it in Montreal, Minnesota, or Florida? He grew up a Yankees fan, why would he purposely screw them like that?

          I would get 3-4 opinions on my arm if I was a major league pitcher with an arm injury. You think he got potentially career ending arm surgery because he just didn’t want to pitch?

  • pete

    It’s never smart to hold a grudge.

  • Big Apple

    I always wish Pavano well and feel that the better he pitches, the smarter the yanks look for signing the guy back in 2004. In the last two years he’s shown that he can still pitch effectivly.

    No way you can bring this guy back after all that happened. Rash of injuries most likely due to a player that didn’t keep himself in playing shape.

    I still think bringing back Vasquez last year was a worthy move as a 4th starter. It was a one year deal and Vasquez had a 10+ yr run of pitching 200 innings. Even with a 5 ERA the yanks offense could score more and he could eat innings at the back of that rotation. What can you say…some things don’t work out.

    • jsbrendog (returns)

      you say it didnt work out, and while i dont disagree with you completely, the yankees might not have made the playoffs if not for that month in the middle of the season when javy was their best starter and their only consistent starter. he did contribute to 2 yankee playoff teams that might not have made the playoffs without him. granted he didnt do much of anything else, esp in the postseason but dems da breaks kid

      • Big Apple

        i liked the vasquez move. the problem most people had is they still saw him as a #1/#2 starter and they only had images of him giving up a grand slam to damon.

        the bigger issue with the yanks rotation last year was burnett…not vasquez.

  • jsbrendog (returns)

    seriously, the fact that he was even willing to attempt to comeback makes me respect him more now. the dude has HUGE BALLS because he knows the ignorance of the fanbase and media and how awful he would be received. if he did really consider coming back then that says to me he was looking for a shot at redemption and might really not be as bad of a guy as everyone thinks (but really has no idea cause no one even knows him)maybe it truly was about redemption and making things right. who knows.

  • ZZ

    Yankee fans need to go back and think more about which players and which manager publicly called out Pavano, consider who these people are, and then really evaluate the credibility behind those statements.

    • jsbrendog (returns)

      well, imo, nothing has ever given anyone any reason to doubt moose’s credibility. but i hear what youre saying about possibly some of the others

      • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

        It’s not credibility; it’s just his personality. Moose was a bit of a curmudgeon in the clubhouse.

        • jsbrendog (returns)

          touche. plus it is kind of messed up to voice it outloud regardless.

          another thing to consider is that those people are mostly all gone. and if arod and jeter can get along then pavano can come into this clubhouse and coexist. i bet him and swisher would be buddies haha

          • Big Apple

            egggsactly…different team now. cash wouldn’t be doing is job if he didn’t seriously consider pavano…he’s above the rest of what is available.

        • http://twitter.com/Mattpat11 Matt DiBari

          Didn’t Jeter and Damon have less than complimentary things to say about him?

          • Moo Chow Loo

            I remember some interview Damon gave where he was asked if he heard about Pavano getting into that car accident that he hid from the team.

            Damon responded with some thing like “I hope his car is OK, I heard he drives a Porsche.”

            • jsbrendog (returns)

              1. hearsay, nothing against you, just saying in general

              2. to me that just sounds like damon’s sense of humor

              buuuuuuuuuuuut none of us will ever know the truth

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

        Moose also talked crap about Mariano for The Yankee Years. He’s just really cranky.

  • Babnik

    Some hilarious comments here and some surprising ones (were you all serious about wanting him back?).

    I’d be ok with him coming back if he pitched for free. I figure that’s the least he could to gain some respect. He’s stolen enough money from us already.

    • Plank

      Why would he pitch for free? Players play for free (league minimum) their first few years in the league, get admittedly by everyone underpaid for a few years (arbitration), then finally are able to sign any contract they get offered. If they far exceed expectations, they don’t get paid any extra. It is a 2 way street. But you want him to play for free because he was injured while he was a Yankee.

      You realize money not paid to players stays with ownership, the fans don’t get any of it.