Soriano Presser Notes: Joba, Pavano, Pettitte

Prospect Profile: Rob Segedin
The RAB Radio Show: January 19, 2011
(AP Photo/Seth Wenig)

Rafael Soriano was officially introduced as a Yankee today, though unfortunately the MLB.com broadcast didn’t show any of the juicy Q&A with Brian Cashman and the rest of the bigwigs. Thankfully we have Twitter, so here are some notes from the presser with the source in parenthesis…

  • Cashman acknowledged that a) he did not recommend signing Soriano to ownership, and b) it was Hal Steinbrenner’s call. “I just didn’t think it was an efficient way to allocate our remaining resources,” said the GM. (Joe Lemire)
  • “Its not my team. I don’t own it,” said Cash. “[The Steinbrenners] do. In any job you better be prepared for every decision to not go your way.” (Peter Botte)
  • Cashman did acknowledge that Soriano makes the team considerably better in 2011, jokingly saying “I think 29 other GMs would love to have their owner shove Rafael Soriano down their throat.” The man has a point. (Lemire & Botte)
  • The inevitable question was asked, and Cashman responded “[Joba Chamberlain] is a bullpen guy, for the 200th time.” Such a damn shame. (Botte)
  • Cash admitted that the team considered and had several discussions with the agent for … wait for it … Carl Pavano. Pavano was said to be seriously considering a return to New York, but he decided to pass on the team’s offer of a one-year deal when the Twins offered two guaranteed years. He passes the “better than Sergio Mitre” test and at this point he’d only cost a second rounder, so why the hell not? This offseason jumped the shark a long time ago anyway. (Botte & Brian Costello & Ken Rosenthal)
  • As for the rest of the free agent pitching market, Cash had a doozy of a quote: “It’s a difficult market to choose from. Listen, if you’re still on the board, there’s a reason for it … The starter might have to come from within. Hopefully we have some of these young kids answer the bell for us.” The truth stings, huh? (Bryan Hoch)
  • Since Scott Boras was at the presser, Cashman continued talks with him about Andruw Jones. I’d be surprised if he hasn’t agreed to terms by Monday, honestly. (Hoch)
  • And finally, there is still no official word from Andy Pettitte regarding his potential return or retirement, but Joe Girardi did speak to him last week and confirmed that the lefty is at least working out to remain in baseball shape. Better than nothing, I suppose. (Bryan Hoch)
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Prospect Profile: Rob Segedin
The RAB Radio Show: January 19, 2011
  • http://twitter.com/joero23 The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

    “I think 29 other GMs would love to have their owner shove Rafael Soriano down their throat.”

    Kinky.

    • RR

      Hahahahaha, great comment.

  • Esteban

    Free Joba!

    Hopefully Cashman is lying about this one too. What’s the plan, though? Saying he can’t start doesn’t help his trade value. Do they really just want Joba to be a 6th/7th inning guy? Are they really going to go into the season with Meat Tray as the 5th starter? Would the fanbase meltdown if they signed Pavano again? He is certainly a better bet than Mitre.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      The plan is to have Joba be the best 6th/7th inning guy on the planet. They must really like what they saw when he lost the job to wood.

  • Squishy Jello Person

    These quotes out of context, Cash doesn’t not sound like a happy man.

    • MikeD

      Cash sounding happy would be a news event to itself.

    • Ted Nelson

      “I think 29 other GMs would love to have their owner shove Rafael Soriano down their throat.”

  • pat

    Wait, so was Soriano there when Cash was all “I just didn’t think it was an efficient way to allocate our remaining resources. Doesn’t he know MFIKY?

    • Will

      ESPN: “The discussion came after the formal introduction, so Soriano was not present for Cashman’s comments.”

  • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

    The juxtaposition of bullet points 4 and 5 makes me nauseous.

  • coolerking101

    When was the last time anyone can remember a GM of a sports franchise openly disagreeing with a move made by his own team? I don’t recall Cashman ever saying a negative word about the A-Rod deal…and that was universally disliked.

    Based on these comments, I don’t see how Cashman is with this team next year. He’s openly questioning the decision of the owners. I know he’s sugar coating it and everyone is saying all the right things, but in my experience, if you say stuff like this, it almost always means the relationship between labor (Cashman) and ownership is in disrepair.

    • RL (needs a new handle)

      Yeah, I saw that as well. Almost calling out the ownership in public. I can see that happening behind closed doors, but when it’s public like that (and if Soriano was anywhere near ear-shot), it would cerainly seem to show a problem in the relationship.

    • Shaun

      When he said that he wasn’t going to sign Soriano explicitly to the media, and then ownership signed Soriano; Cash couldn’t really say “After a long candle lit bubble bath while listening to my Justin Beiber album…I decided to sign Soriano.” Cashman had no choice but to say he disagreed with ownership; or else he could have ended up looking like and would be portrayed as a pathetic lapdog and/or puppet.

      • coolerking101

        Well put, but I disagree. He could have said his previous statements were a “negotiation tactic,” or that he “reconsidered his position after much thought into how much value Soraino brings to the team right now,” or even that “after a couple of pellets of mescaline and a good huff of ether he obtained a new perspective and changed his mind.” He didn’t do any of those things. Instead, he basically said, I didn’t want this, don’t agree with this, but I’m not the boss.

        • Midland TX

          Believe it or not, transparency and honesty are esteemed in many organizations, even those where it is not mandated by law.

          Everyone’s happy about the outcome for the roster, nobody sounds hysterical: This is as far from the old Tampa-NY front office-field manager wars as disagreements get.

        • Shaun

          I think that had the owners told Cash to sign Soriano before our GM spoke those words to the media; he could have played things off today. Unfortunately, the media already knew Cashman didn’t want the deal and it could have kicked up more problems than if he was just honest.

    • Not Tank the Frank

      I have to agree with this. Is there any precedent to this kind of action?

      “Its not my team. I don’t own it,” said Cash.

      Very true. But the owners of that team hired YOU as Senior Vice President and General Manager to make the decisions on baseball operations. Randy Levine is not a GM. And it’s bloody well obvious now why he’s not. I’m sure this contract is a joke among Baseball Ops circles. If ownership is going to go over Cashman’s head and request he sign a player, that’s one thing. But Randy Levine should be the last one negotiating the terms. That’s Brian Cashman’s job.

    • NJYankeeFan

      I think Cashman handled this very poorly and his statements today constitute borderline insubordination. He should have never come out and directly criticized a move made by his superiors especially since everyone already knew his feelings on the matter. In addition, once Levine and the Steinbrenners made the decision to add Soriano, Cashman should have lead the negotiations to ensure the Yankees signed him to the best possible contract. If I’m Levine and the Steinbrenners, I’m pretty pissed off at Cashman’s behavior today and I think he may have just written his ticket out of town.

      • Midland TX

        Calm down.

        Nowhere does it say Cashman refused to negotiate. What we can reasonably infer is that Levine chose to go it alone after soliciting Cashman’s input.

        As for his comments, let’s assume a reporter asked him directly why he would go back on his word and sign a very uncharacteristic contract, one which undermines the expectations he’s been trying to set about his stance toward paying for free agents. Why would he not tell the truth?

        Nothing he said is untrue or insubordinate. Expressing respectful disagreement isn’t tantamount to insubordination if you’re not in the military or acting as White House Chief of Staff.

  • Not Tank the Frank

    “Joba Chamberlain is a bullpen guy, for the 200th time

    And how many times did Cashman declare Joba a starter; 199?

    • The Big City of Dreams

      When Cashman has his mind made up he won’t change like when he said Joba is a starter because he takes to long to warm up as a reliever. Oh wait

  • Monteroisdinero

    Cervelli and Joba on the launching pad for something better when the right guy comes along.

    • RL (needs a new handle)

      It would add to Joba’s value if he were a starter.

      • Monteroisdinero

        Maybe but other teams may feel he is with or without the Yankee’s attitude towards Joba. It is hard to believe that all the Yankee pitching experts/coaches (and there are many) know less than the “Joba to the rotation” folks here.

        • RL (needs a new handle)

          It is hard to believe that all the Yankee pitching experts/coaches (and there are many) know less than the “Joba to the rotation” folks here.

          Have to agree with you on that point.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joe Pawlikowski

            Why do you have to agree? It’s just an appeal to authority.

            • radnom

              Sure. but you can’t completely discredit the insane amount of additional information that Cashman has that you and I don’t. It is impossible to full evaluate the decision from our perspective what it essentially comes down to is you either trust Cashman’s decision making on the issue or you don’t.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joe Pawlikowski

                No, I’m totally with you. But Monteroisdinero’s argument was an appeal to authority and nothing more. As in, I wouldn’t agree with it, necessarily, because it means nothing.

                What you said, now that means something.

              • Mister Delaware

                Agreed, but I imagine most of us assume his medicals look pretty bad right now. You can acknowledge the add’l information and still disagree with Cashman’s risk assessment; that its better to get what you can from Joba out of the pen than put him in the rotation. Or doubt whether the pen is even “safer” for his arm.

                • Corporate Scum (formerly Joe West’s Music Career)

                  I don’t think it’s the medicals. If it was the medicals, surely they’d be focused on rehabing him rather than risking his health as a disposable bullpen cog.

                  I think he has a personal issue, anxiety order, something, and asked not to start, and that’s why they won’t elaborate at all.

                  There’s no way that one mediocre (and unlucky) season in the rotation, and one mediocre one in the pen has dropped him below Mitre level in their minds. If that was the case, they’d view him as completely disposable, and at a minimum, talk him up as a starter, just to try to extract some trade value.

            • Mister Delaware

              No. Everyone in the majors is optimized. If Molina plays for two months because Posey isn’t ready, its because Posey definitely wasn’t ready until the day he came up, not because fans can occasionally be right.

            • Corporate Scum (formerly Joe West’s Music Career)

              Respectfully, no, not really. Not a blind appeal to authority. In fact, to argue there is no really good mystery explanation for this behavior is essentially a clear indictment of the competence of the organization.

              Don’t get me wrong, This is driving me nuts, I really want Joba in the rotation so long as he’s got a pulse and a rightarm.

              The information we have just doesn’t add up at all.

              1) As recently as a year ago, Cashman called him “a starter who happens to be in the bullpen.”

              2) Now they say he’s in the bullpen, period, and refuse to elaborate, regardless of how many times they were asked. (“Stuff plays up in the pen” does NOT count)

              So, to presume that there is no reason to take this stance now other than sheer stubborness in essence concludes that:

              1) Either no one, or no one who is listened to within all of the Yankees (not Royals, not Pirates, YANKEES) FO and baseball ops department comprehends that A) Joba was very unlucky in 2009, as per the peripherals and my confirmation bias, in that I remember a LOT of bloop hits, bleeders etc., or B) that “lousy Joba” without even a shred of improvement over 09 represents an upgrade over Mitre.

              and/or

              2) No one with a respected voice in the Yankees FO/baseball ops understands that a starter is more valuable than a middle reliever, either independently, or especially in the context of a Starter shortage and a plethora of middle relief.

              This doesn’t seem plausible. That’s a severe level of incompetence to ascribe to a very successful organization.

              My guess is this: Joba went to them and told them he prefers the pen, and that starting is too much pressure/strain/whatever. This would explain the stubborness and insistence and refusal to elaborate. This seems more plausible to me than injury concerns.

              Cashman seems savvy enough to understand the damage refusing to start him is doing to his trade value.

              • toad

                This sounds reasonable to me.

                Cashman knows the whole thing is a big mystery, not to mention a sore spot, to fans. You have a guy who was going to be the next big ace, and suddenly (well, not quite suddenly, but fairly quickly) he’s turned into a second-tier reliever.

                I think if it were injuries or the like Cashman would explain.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joe Pawlikowski

                Again, you made a point here. That’s not a blind appeal to authority. The original comment to which I replied with an appeal to authority and nothing else. That’s the difference.

              • pete

                re: “refuse to elaborate”

                has anybody ever really asked him to? It seems to me that all the writers are so on-board with the joba-to-the-pen thing that as soon as he went there they stopped questioning it beyond “is he in the bullpen”. I could be (and probably am) wrong, but I’ve never seen him respond to the question “why is Joba still in the bullpen”, because from what I can tell, he hasn’t been directly asked that.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          True they do have information we don’t have access to but they can still make the wrong decisions even with the information they have.

  • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

    It’s August 1st, 2011. Is Joba Chamberlain still a Yankee?

    • RL (needs a new handle)

      No.

    • Mattchu12

      If he starts the season as a starter? Yes.

      If he starts the season as a reliever? No.

  • MikeD

    When Joba lost the competition for the 5th rotation spot, Cahs said something like “Joba is a starter in the pen.” So the follow-up question today should be what happened in 2010 that he can no longer be a starter in the starting rotation now that the Yankees need one.

    • Ted Nelson

      Good point.

  • J Scott

    Let me see if I have this straight: Cashman has admitted to reaching out to Carl Pavano, and the bulk of contributors to this website think it’s ownerships’s judgment[s] which are troublesome? Do I have that right?

    To an extent it has not previously, Brian Cashman’s continued employment by this team…bothers me. Carl Pavano…seriously?

    I now trust Randy Levine’s pitching expertise ahead of Brian Cashman’s, which is creepy on a number of levels…but…Carl Pavano?

    I…uhhnnn…Carl Pavano? Just…disturbing.

    • RL (needs a new handle)

      Have you missed what he’s done since leaving the Yankees? Given this year’s market since they lost out on Lee, I can certainly see why they’d discuss a contract with him. While not an ace, he’s better than our current 4 & 5 starter options.

    • http://www.facebook.com/cecala Joseph Cecala

      Hes been good since he left NY. Really look at his numbers and you will have to make sure it is that Carl Pavano…

      • Mickey Scheister

        He was also good BEFORE he signed in NY, so yeah, I’d still stay away…far away. I have to agree with J Scott, this is disturbing that Cash actually offered Pavano a deal.

        • Ted Nelson

          The facts do not match up with the neat little narrative of Pavano not being able to “handle” NYC.

          He was injured while in NY… He pitched 9 games in 3 seasons, 26 in 4. That was the big problem.

          He had about 2.5 good season out of 7 before coming to NY. He actually pitched as bad or worse than he did as a Yankee in ’99, ’01, or ’02.

          He pitched ok in ’09 and well in ’10.

          Cashman was looking at him on a one year deal. He was not looking for some sort of savior. He was looking for a #4 starter on a deal with limited downside.

          • Mickey Scheister

            At least he was an All-Star and finished 6th in the Cy Young award in the year before he signed the biggest deal of his career.

            MON, 24 wins in 452 innings
            FLA, 33 wins in 485 innings
            NYY, 9 wins in 145 innings
            CLE, 9 wins in 125 innings
            MIN, 22 wins in 294 innings

            He matched his win total in CLE in five-eights of a year as opposed to 4 total seasons in NY. I know wins are not a good measure of overall performance, but really 9 wins on a LOSING team in Cle vs 9 wins on a PLAYOFF team in NY.

            • Mickey Scheister

              I should’ve added

              MON – 81 Games, 4.5 years
              FLA – 86 Games, 2.5 years
              NYY – 26 Games, 4 years
              CLE – 21 Games, .58 of a year
              MIN – 44 Games, 1.38’s years

            • Ted Nelson

              I don’t see how that contradicts my points.

              He started (and pitched in) 26 games in NY. He started 21 in Cleveland, 44 in Minnesota, 71 in Florida, and 78 in Montreal. He was not healthy in NY, and that’s why he was a bust and why he only won 9 games.

              If you want to use wins I can show you that he was 5-2 in 35.2 innings his final 2 seasons in NY. That would be about a 25-8 record over 200 innings. Not too bad.

              His career ERA is 4.34 and it was 4.77 in his one real season in NY. That was only his 4th highest season ERA up to that point: he had 3 seasons before that with higher ERAs. His FIP was uglier, but close to his ’01 and ’02 totals and not too far from his career average.

              Yes, he was better in the 2 seasons before and after leaving. Correlation is not causation, however. It doesn’t come anywhere near proving that NY had a magic impact on him that caused him to get injured.

              • Mickey Scheister

                Bottom line, he spent a third of his career in NY. He averaged 36.25 innings PER YEAR and 2.25 wins per season in 145 innings and 9 total wins with each win costing 4.45 million dollars.

                He pitched over 200 innings two years in a row BEFORE coming to NY and he has pitched roughly 200 innings two years after NY. So there was nothing indicating he’d not just fall apart, but disappear in NY before, but since he’s gone 200 strong two years in a row again, let’s just bring him back! History never repeats itself!

                So if you’d like to go after a guy who gave you 2.25 wins and 36.25 innings per season. Pavano is your guy.

                • Ted Nelson

                  I never said he was good in NY. He clearly was a bust. I said that there is no proof that was because “he can’t handle NY.”

                  The only bottom line is that there is no evidence he “couldn’t handle NY.” There is evidence he got injured.

                  You really believe that he didn’t want to perform in NY? If he’s really all about money, he could have made a lot more money after his 4 years in NY if he had, you know, actually pitched in NY.

          • radnom


            The facts do not match up with the neat little narrative of Pavano not being able to “handle” NYC.

            Its not always narrative- see Vasquez, Javier.

            • radnom

              That being said I would take him in a second on a one year deal considering the current rotation.

            • http://twitter.com/steveh_MandAura Steve H

              Vasquez was an All-Star his first time here and got hurt in the 2nd half.

              Last year he lost 3 MPH on his fastball.

              Not sure how you can conclude he couldn’t handle NY.

              • Ted Nelson

                +1

              • Mickey Scheister

                Good point, Vasquez was an all-star and had a great year in the ATL before coming back to NY. I guess if it was his first go ’round it would’ve been a better move, from a fan perspective. Since it was his second chance in NY, given how he did in his first stint, and all the more mileage on his arm plus pitching in the AL East as opposed to the NL East, we all knew the risk. He at least pitched in NY and didn’t take a 4 year vacation with 40 mil to blow like Pavano.

                • Ted Nelson

                  No, you’re misreading that, he was an All-Star his first stint in NY. He was not an All-Star in Atlanta. The only time in his career he’s been an All-Star was 2004 in NY.

                  http://www.baseball-reference......4&t=p

                  Check out his month-to-month splits above. He was much better early, got injured, and then got crushed from July on.

                  • Mickey Scheister

                    Your right, he did however have an All-Star caliber season in the ATL, my bad. A year removed of an ERA+ 143 plus a guy that went no less than 30 starts per every season since 1999 was much less of a risk than Pavano now and STILL based on his NY history a lot of folks doubted he could repeat that but still much expected better.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      I expected better, but that doesn’t mean him not performing better had anything to do with pitching for the Yankees. If he’d stayed in Atlanta same exact thing could have happened. He lost velocity and I just doubt that was because he was on the Yankees.

              • radnom

                I didn’t conclude anything all I’m saying is his performance nosedived both times he was here. If you think that is a coincidence fine, but how much do you want to bet he has quite the rebound this year?

              • jsbrendog (returns)

                plus without that month in 2010 when he was the best yankee starter they mght not have won the division. think about that. javier vazquez contributed to 2 yankee playoff teams that might not have made the playoffs without him.

    • Not Tank the Frank

      Pavano has pitched well since leaving the Yankees. If you don’t at least look into Pavano as an option given the Yankees pitching situation, you aren’t doing your job.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      You gotta kick the tires on these sort of things and stop being emotional and overreacting. A one-year deal is better than having Mitre, Millwood, or Garcia.

    • NJYankeeFan

      You gotta give Cashman credit for having brass balls. Can you imagine how bad he would be crucified if he re-signed Pavano and he sucked or got injured again 1 year after bringing Javy Vasquez back blew up in his face?

      • Rick

        Didn’t you just rip Cashman for speaking out on the Soriano signing? Now he has balls to offer the contract to Pavano? Sooo which is it? Did he not have balls to call out ownership but had them when he offered Pavano a contract?

    • Mike HC

      I’m with you to a certain extent. He trades for Javy again last year. And now thinks Pavano would be a good idea to bring back? I wouldn’t bring back Pavano if he agree to pitch for free. I’m happy there are guys going over his head on moves.

      • Ted Nelson

        You really believe that certain players can play in front of tens of thousands of people and handle any other city in the country or even handle playing in the same city… but suddenly playing for the Yankees put an insurmountable pressure on their shoulders that they can’t handle?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          Heh, amen. Getting to the big leagues is enough pressure. How quickly we forget that Pavano pitched against the Yankees in the World Series and completely dominated them. No pressure there, I suppose.

        • radnom


          You really believe that certain players can play in front of tens of thousands of people and handle any other city in the country or even handle playing in the same city

          Everyone handles it differently but yes, I believe the players who say that it is a different experience playing for team A vs. team B because of the different city/media exposure/expectations etc. Well I certainly believe it more than an amateur physiologist on the internet ‘proving’ it wrong. Statements like this are just as naive as when people claim player X can’t handle a certain city when hes never even played there before.

          • Ted Nelson

            So this magic only happens when people also get injured in the same season, or what?

            If this was the case there would be more than 2 examples of pitchers who got injured while in NY and suffered because of it. Yet, those are the only examples ever really offered: Javy and Pavano or maybe an 87 year old Randy Johnson. If this phenomenon really exists, it would be really, really, really easy to prove. It’s naive to believe in magic, not to disagree with an argument of magic happening when the facts stand in contrast to that argument. When you see your mom putting presents under the tree, it’s time to stop believing in Santa.

            • radnom

              What the hell are you talking about?

              I was discussing the idea you put forth that pressure on players is roughly the same regardless of where they play. At no point did I say anything about magic injuries resulting from said pressure.

              • radnom

                Nor did I mention any of those players, or even the Yankees for that matter.

              • Ted Nelson

                If this pressure negatively impacts players, there would be clear evidence of it. That’s what I’m talking about. You would be able to see that players came to the Yankees and performed worse. The only examples people throw around about this are two pitchers who got hurt.

          • pete

            Players say it, writers say it, evidence doesn’t. I’ve spent many hours researching this. I’ve yet to find ONE example wherein a player’s performance suffered significantly here without any other major contributing factors to his decreased performance.

            For me to take the assumption that “some guys just can’t handle NY”, I’d need more than that. To really establish a pattern, you’d probably need about 15-20 examples like that. In all my searching, I haven’t found one. When the evidence speaks that loudly against something, I really don’t care what the players say. Perception belies the truth, facts don’t.

            • Ted Nelson

              Exactly.

              And every time a player has an off-year or gets hurt in Kansas City or Cleveland, is that also related to the pressure of those media hotbeds?

          • Chops

            “Well I certainly believe it more than an amateur physiologist on the internet ‘proving’ it wrong.”

            Why is the burden of proof on us to prove you wrong? If you made the claim, its on you. You can’t just make a claim, provide no empirical evidence, and then state that you are right on the basis that you can’t be proved wrong.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            I think some ppl under estimate how different it is playing in certain markets over others.

            • Ted Nelson

              If there were a trend of this it would be clearly evident in the stats. So go ahead and prove it if it exists.

              Maybe different places impact different players differently, but statistically you’d still see a trend with multiple groups emerging.

        • Corporate Scum (formerly Joe West’s Music Career)

          Petrified of the roll call. Paralyzed with fear.

    • http://www.facebook.com/cecala Joseph Cecala

      Since Juan Miranda got traded, they had to sign a Juan Miranda look alike

      • http://www.facebook.com/cecala Joseph Cecala

        wtf? why did it go here

        • The Big City of Dreams

          that happens from time to time

  • David

    Wow! Awesome. Don’t know where to start.

    Honest response by Cashman. It might just mean that the owners have decided to increase the payroll, which is good.

    To me, everything points to Joba being included in a trade. Watch and see.

    To me, this is further evidence that Andy will return. You don’t know if you will be back, you haven’t said you are retiring, you tell the manager that you are working out to stay in baseball shape? This is obvious stuff. Waiting is not bad. You have a better chance of being in good shape in October, plus they get more nervous and come up with more $$$$.

    • Tom Swift

      If he is physically and mentally up to it, I think Andy will be back. Just a hunch. He knows the team needs him. It would make a huge difference if he can give us 180 innings in 2011. That said, he is getting old. He may not have one more season in the tank.

      • http://www.cerealblogger.com Russ has a last name

        “To me, everything points to Joba being included in a trade. Watch and see.”

        This seems to be a very popular sentiment around here but I just don’t see it.

        If the yanks plan for Joba is to trade him then Cash would be saying something like “we like him as a starter but we’re going to keep him in the bullpen”. Why would you make statements about a player that completely devastate his trade value if you planned on trading him?

        Might he get traded? Very possibly, but I just don’t see him as on the block.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          And there ends the career of Joba Chamberlain. Once seen as a the ace future ace of the rotation/closer in waiting he is nothing more than a middle reliever called upon in blowouts.

  • vin

    If the Yankees do go into this season with Nova and Mitre (or Phelps) in the rotation, I will choose to believe the Yankees are 100% certain there is a medical risk with Joba starting.

    The only other alternative is they are very confident they will land someone via trade during the season, and they don’t want Joba bouncing back to the pen… and they want to give either Nova or Mitre a shot as the 5 starter.

    But if they choose too keep Joba in the pen, then I am just going to assume his shoulder (or whatever) can’t handle the rigors of starting. Simply because it makes no friggin sense otherwise.

    I will stop griping and defer to Cashman’s knowledge of the situation.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Yes Cashman knows all and is never wrong don’t ever question him lol.

      Seriously though if it is the shoulder can sit here and say the constant call as a reliever is a safer route.

  • Ted Nelson

    Good stuff, besides the Joba part.

    • Midland TX

      +1

  • Fuck Face

    Count how many times Levine mentioned “we’re running a 5 billion dollar company.”

    They are going to sell this team sometime down the road.

    Also, Carl Pavano? Are you kidding me?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joe Pawlikowski

      While we don’t mind profanity, would you mind removing it from your commenter handle? Thanks.

      • Mister Delaware

        “Sex Face”

        • jsbrendog (returns)

          coitus face

  • Scooby

    Who here could honestly ever root for Pavano if he donned Yankees pinstripes again? Not I.

    • http://twitter.com/biebrichbeats ClayBuchholzLovesLaptops

      I would. And I don’t see any reason why I wouldn’t.

      • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

        This

      • Rick in Boston

        As Yankee fans, we’ve cheered for a lot of people who are a lot worse at life than Carl Pavano.

    • Big Juan

      I’ll root for anyone who helps the Yankees win. I don’t give a shit who it is.

      • Mickey Scheister

        Yeah, I’d still root for him too, but imagine the Stadium if he came walking out with that gloriously thick stache donning a Yanks uni, I know the boo birds would’ve been in full effect. If it would’ve gone down, I would NOT have liked it but as a fan of a team you want every member of that team to do well.

    • Mister Delaware

      In a second. I might even go back to goodwill to see if they still had the Pavano shirtsey I dropped off a few years ago. Because, if we weren’t the Yankees and he weren’t the much mocked Pavano, a very easy “the team f’d this guy by not believing his injuries and delaying a needed surgery” narrative to be stated.

  • I am not the droids you’re looking for

    I just threw up in my mouth, AND crapped my pants. I’m a hot mess.

  • J Scott

    When a player performs honorably prior to coming to New York; performs disgracefully while in New York; then once again performs honorably after leaving New York; the default position should not be “Well, I guess what happened in New York was just some random noise in an otherwise useful career.”

    While that’s one possible explanation, by far the most likely one is…this guy wants no part of New York. And, that Brian Cashman, at this late date, still doesn’t get that…disturbing.

    • pete

      I couldn’t disagree more with that opinion. Mostly because I have spent hours searching for examples of players coming here, suddenly performing much worse than they ever had, and then leaving and playing well again, without the presence of obvious alternate explanations, such as injury, extreme luck, and age.

      Carl Pavano was injured pretty much his entire tenure with the Yankees. I don’t think that says anything about whether or not he “wanted” to be there; nobody wants to be injured, especially if your performance, legacy, and future contracts are all dependent on your health.

      • Ted Nelson

        Good points.

        • pete

          It should be said, I’m starting to agree with you more and more about the Soriano signing. Good move right now. Limited, but high-likelihood upside, some downside, but not end-of-the-world downside.

          • Ted Nelson

            Yeah, agreed. That’s a good way to put it.

      • Fuck Face

        How about Javy fucking Vazquez. I would love to cast my vote on a confidence poll right about now.

        To think that we have resorted to considering Pavano is extremely unsettling.

        • pete

          What about Javy Vazquez? In 2004, he pitched well the first half, and was hurt the second half, hence his poorer results. In 2010, it would appear that the miles on his arm caught up to him, or else that he was injured again, because he lost about 3-4mph on his fastball. That’s a lot, and it goes a long way towards explaining his general suckitude in 2010.

          Guess again.

  • pete

    This is a weird comparison, but Cashman reminds me of Paul Simon. Simon was always strangely distant and seemingly irritated in interviews, and also can be quite surprisingly blunt, like Cashman (openly mentioning the signing as having “Rafael Soriano shoved down [my] throat”). I think Simon had Aspergers Syndrome, and I’m beginning to wonder if maybe Cash does, too. He’s never struck me as somebody who cared – at all – about how he was perceived by others, so much so that you wonder if he is even aware of it.

    • Monteroisdinero

      but he looks like Taub on House.

  • Brian in NH

    Please trade Joba. If I were him I’d be wanting a trade, both because I’m sure he still thinks he can start, and because he’d be able to make more money as a starter, even if he was a middling/journeyman starter. I mean, Jeff Suppan has made way more money than he probably should have, Joba can be at least that good right?

    • Ted Nelson

      The Yankees should be more concerned with what’s best for their organization than what’s best for Joba’s career. Sure, there’s a great argument that starting Joba is best for their org and his career. Short of that, though, using him as a strong, cost controlled relief pitcher is more valuable than trading him for the sake of trading him. If you get a strong return, sure, trade him. I would not be worried about his career earnings too much in my decision making process were I Brian Cashman, though.

      • David

        They won’t give him away for nothing, trading him just for the sake of trading him. He would be a piece of a larger deal, like the proposed Haren trade last year, but for a starter that they liked better than Haren. It is obvious that they don’t have confidence in Joba. They can provide excess prospects and salary relief to other teams, so there will be a fit. It is just a matter of time.

        • Ted Nelson

          I don’t disagree, necessarily.

          The comment I responded to said “please trade Joba” and then went on to give as the reasons for trading him Joba’s personal well-being and career earnings. You have to look at my comment in context.

          I’m generally not crazy about the idea of trading Joba when his value is at an all-time low. He’s a “reliever” and he had an inflated ERA last season compared to other indicators of performance. He was inconsistent and had some good runs and some bad runs. I fully expect him to be more valuable in the future, whether that’s as a solid starter or a top reliever.

          Combine that with other high level prospects, and I think there’s a good chance the Yankees will get fleeced in the trade.

          The Yankees may or may not have lost faith in Joba last season (Cashman reportedly was fine going into the season with him as their #2 reliever), but if he comes to camp in great shape, throwing great stuff, and gets off to a good start… I’m sure he’ll be back in their good graces, if he’s not there already.

          It would all come down the the specific deal, though, obviously.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            Based on how he was used in the 2nd half of the yr and the PS I think they have lost faith in him. Maybe Cashman hasn’t but he was trying to work out a deal for Balfour. If Balfour signed here I don’t see him as a 7th inning guy. He wouldn’t be the heir to Mo like Soriano is but he would definitely pitch the 8th.

            • Ted Nelson

              Why are you so hung up on innings?

              • The Big City of Dreams

                Because the yankees are *shrug shoulders*

                • Ted Nelson

                  Even if we can prove beyond a doubt that you want your best relief pitcher in the 9th and second best in the 8th… It’s still beneficial to have 3 “8th inning” caliber guys in Soriano, Joba, and Robertson. Or maybe you could even say 3 9th inning guys and 1 8th inning guy plus a couple LOOGYs. I just don’t understand why some people would rather just not have a good pitcher than have him pitching in “less important” innings.

                  • The Big City of Dreams

                    I think it’s frustration to tell you the truth. Now I’m going to root for the kid and hopefully he succeeds but if he fails you can bet ppl will be shaking their head wondering why he wasn’t traded.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        Short of that, though, using him as a strong, cost controlled relief pitcher is more valuable than trading him for the sake of trading him.

        ——————–

        I would agree if he was holding down the 8th inning but the kid is a middle reliever at this point. Maybe Joba will surprise us and unseat Soriano but I wouldn’t bet my life on it. The Yankees are at a point where you shrug your shoulders. He wasn’t moved for Haren but he can’t start for the Yankees so he stays in the pen. But they get Soriano so now he’s no longer the heir to Mo. SMH, he’s remaining on the team to go what pitch in blowouts that occur either way.

        • Ted Nelson

          So, you would rather have a bad middle reliever who gives up more runs and lets more guys on base? Those runs don’t count as much because they’re in the 6th and 7th and probably sometimes 8th innings? There are plenty of high leverage spots in the 6th and 7th, and also plenty of times when you’re down 2, 3, 4 runs and holding the other team might allow your offense to come back.

          “he’s remaining on the team to go what pitch in blowouts that occur either way.”

          Just not true. I think you are confusing being a team’s 3rd best relief pitcher with being it’s 7th best reliever. There are plenty of times when you need a reliever in close games in the 6th and 7th innings.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            True there are moments when you a relief pitcher needs to come in and get out of a jam in the 6th or 7th inning but IMO Joba is more valuable taking the ball every five days instead of being another arm out of the pen.

            • Ted Nelson

              I agree (especially on this roster), but that doesn’t seem like an option in a Yankee uniform.

              • The Big City of Dreams

                Yea that ship has pretty much sailed lol and if it’s for injury reasons then everyone would understand.

    • Mickey Scheister

      He still can provide value, in the 5-7th innings yes, but value nonetheless. I am a Yankees fan and I want them to field the best possible team. (Full disclosure, I feel Joba starting makes them a better team.) With that said if they cannot get someone back with comparable value, keep him on the team. I hope they don’t trade him for a 5th starter or scrap heap, he has a higher ceiling than that. If this is Cash’s last year as GM, maybe the new GM will sing a different tune regarding Joba.

      • Ted Nelson

        I agree with your general point and this is not only directed at you by a long shot, but why do people act as if the 5-7 innings are less important than other innings? Runs scored in those innings count the same as runs scored in other innings.

        • Mickey Scheister

          I agree, an inning is an inning. I understand how that read, “5-7th innings yes”, but I’d rather have Joba ready to go to put out a fire as opposed to Gaudin entering a tie game versus a division rival or anyone for that matter. I know closers typically get more in arbitration and free agency, so I guess it’s MLB that puts more value on the final inning. I guess in the end a hold isn’t as valuable as a save.

          • Ted Nelson

            Yeah, it’s a generally accepted way of talking about relievers (just as Cashman called Soriano an “8th inning guy”), but I think it gets overblown. If Joba pitches as well in the 6th or 7th as an “8th inning guy” or “closer”… that’s huge. (Might be huger in the rotation… but…)

        • The Big City of Dreams

          but why do people act as if the 5-7 innings are less important than other innings?

          It’s because they feel that Joba could be more valuable as a starter or even an 8th inning guy. Middle relievers change from yr to yr and came be found through various ways.

          • Ted Nelson

            Again, though, my point is about the inning numbers. If Joba is a “8th inning” caliber reliever–i.e. performs like one of the better relievers in the game–why does it matter if he does that in the 8th or 6th inning? Assuming he gets the same number of innings in roughly as meaningful of games.

            Sure, by the 8th and 9th inning your offense has a lot less outs to work with if you give up some runs. On the whole, though, if the Yankees get “8th inning guy” stuff in the 6th and 7th innings (when relievers are necessary in those innings obviously) and “closer” stuff in the 8th and 9th… That’s a good thing.

            He might be relatively more valuable if there weren’t better relievers ahead of him–since he’d be the best reliever obviously–but if his performance in the “middle innings” is the same he’d give as an 8th or 9th innings guy and the Yankees have better guys behind him… That’s a good thing.

            • The Big City of Dreams

              I hear what you’re saying Ted because you made some valid but I just have a hard time with him being a middle reliever. It’s just something I can’t get over. Maybe a trade with him involved comes down the line but he’s being held onto like a prize position.

              • Ted Nelson

                Being a starter seems to have been ruled out by the Yankees for whatever reason(s). So it’s just not worth it to talk about it IMO. For the record, I agree. Joba should start for the 2011 Yankees as presently constructed.

                The realistic choices are you use him as a relief pitcher or trade him. If some team really loves Joba’s potential still and is willing to value him as a young up-and-coming closer or above average starter… sure, I would trade him. If it’s between getting “middle reliever” value in a trade or holding onto him and using him 70 innings in relief, though, I’m holding him. Giving up a young, proven major league pitcher plus prospects for someone you could have for just prospects is too much for me.

                “Middle relief” is a made up and relative term. It’s like saying that anyone hitting 7-9 for the Yankees should be traded because they’re a “bottom of the order guy.” The Yankees are returning the best offense in baseball last season and some of their 7-9 guys would be hitting 1-5 in other line-ups. They also have a very talented bullpen, so they can use guys other teams would use in the 8th or 9th innings in the 6th or 7th. That’s the luxury of a $200 mill payroll and well run front office.

                • The Big City of Dreams

                  We’re going to have to disagree on holding onto him vs. trading. I don’t believe the spot he currently holds on the team is something that doesn’t warrant staying on the team just because he’s young and inexpensive.

    • pete

      there’s a perfectly decent chance, though, that Joba would just much rather relieve than start. If I were GM, I’d probably say “too bad, here’s a $5m consolation prize for your troubles”, and make him start anyway, but I do think it’s possible that Joba’s desires have played a role in the decision.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        And if it has then no one can blame him for that. The thing is we’ll probably never hear it from him. He’ll just give the same line. “I’ll do whatever they want me to do”

  • http://dontbringinthelefty.blogspot.com Lucas Apostoleris

    Free Joba!

  • J Scott

    Pavano threw over 400 innings the two years prior to coming to the Yankees. He threw over 400 innings the two years after leaving New York. In the four years he spent with the Yankees he threw less than 150 innings…total.

    I would argue that Pavano’s inability to deal, emotionally, with New York contibuted significantly to his relentless string of physical problems while here.

    • Mickey Scheister

      Well said, we all know that NY isn’t for everybody and NY found out 4 years and 40 mil later that, for whatever reason, NY is not for Pavano. He was HATED because of not revealing various injuries and for being generally worse than Mitre when he did play. I remember everyone counting the days on his contract because the entire city wanted him gone. I still cannot believe Cash actually offered him a contract.

      • Mike HC

        He brings back Javy, and now tried to bring back Pavano? Beyond crazy.

        • Rick in Boston

          Why? If the best pitcher available is Pavano, and he fits the budget, then why not?

          • Avi

            Yes, you are clearly from Boston.

            • Rick in Boston

              Yet, I’m not originally from Boston. And I’m not sure why my location has anything to do with a logical, economic move.

              • Avi

                Are you nuts? Bringing in Pavano is anything but logical. Pavan is EVIL and anyone who considers bringing him back is equally so.

                exaggeratingforemphasis

                • http://twitter.com/steveh_MandAura Steve H

                  I’d bring in Pavano too.

                  • Avi

                    Stop it Steve.

                • Rick in Boston

                  Hypothetical situation:

                  Veteran righty, who threw 221 IP, worth 4.6 bWAR in the AL last year, was available on a one year deal for less than $10 million.

                  Great, right! It’s not an awful deal when you look at it in a vaccuum.

                  • Avi

                    I wouldn’t bring in Pavano if he paid to pitch. And I think almost ALL Yankee fans would agree.

                    • Rick in Boston

                      Look at the numbers above, and change his name to Parl Cavano. Does that help?

                      I’m not a Pavano fan, nor do I think he’ll be a great piece, but the Yankees could do much worse than him. And that’s why Yankee fans shouldn’t run the Yankees – there’s an emotional detachment necessary.

                    • jsbrendog (returns)

                      the only problem is the people who would agree are irrational yankee fans. the rational fans would agree that bringing him back on a low risk 1 yr deal to be the 4th/5th starter after 2 years of being injury free and pitching above league average is a fine idea.

                      seriously, how can anyone think that his injuries were because he couldnt handle ny??? yeah he couldnt handle ny so he crashed his car in florida. shit, the guy tried to hide the injuries so he could pitch. dude tried to pitch with broken ribs. obv cant handle ny.

                    • pete

                      that’s fine. You and “almost ALL Yankee fans” would be wrong. Thankfully, Cashman isn’t in that boat, and like the quality GM he is, he pursued all options.

    • Ted Nelson

      Or he was just really injured…

      He also combined to throw 140 innings in ’00 and ’01… I guess the stresses of the Montreal media were just too much for his fragile psyche…

      • http://twitter.com/steveh_MandAura Steve H

        Seems more plausible to me.

  • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

    Joba >>> Pavano. This is just like Righetti.

    • ZZ

      No.

  • Mike HC

    Some other quotes of Cash’s

    “I’m charged with getting the payroll down,” – – don’t love that one.

    “It’s all the other stuff wrapped around the deal, the money, allocating closer type money to an eighth-inning guy, those type of things.” — So Cashman is also hung up on this “8th inning” role. Just lost some more confidence in Cashman right there too.

    • Rick in Boston

      I’m not seeing where Cashman says he’s hung up the 8th inning role. If anything, he’s against paying big money and giving little flexibility to the inning. By paying Soriano all this money, the Yankees are saying “8th inning – he’s our guy, no matter what”.

      • mike hc

        Huh? A top reliever is a top reliever regardless of what inning he pitches and non closers usually even have more usage flexibility to be brought in during high leverage situations. The fact that cash didn’t like the deal for an “8th inning” guy is a bit disconcerting to me.
        He also is keeping joba in the pen, traded for javy again last year, could not pull off the trade for haren last year, missed out on lee and tried to bring pavano back this off season

        • Rick in Boston

          I see what you’re seeing and agree. But I still think you’re losing confidence in Cashman is misguided. His moves more often than not work out. I doubt his replacement will ever be able to handle the Steinbrenners and the media as well as Cashman.

          • mike hc

            Yea, cash’s replacement would probavbly be worse. And I don’t want him fired or anything. I think he is an above average gm. But I’m also not above pointing out some of the problems I have with him. Our rotation is not where it should be and some of that is cashmans fault

            • rbizzler

              If Cash had used the term ‘set-up guy’ instead of ‘eighth inning guy’ would you feel better about his comments?

              I agree that the Yanks rotation, in its current state, is not optimal. But Cash threw a monster deal at Lee and he chose to go somewhere that he had played before and enjoyed himself.

              The only other impact SP that was moved this offseason was Greinke, a guy whose personality the org was concerned about. Judging from your disparagement of Cash for reacquiring Javy and contemplating a Pavano redux, I would find it unlikely that you would advocate adding Greinke to the mix.

              The in-division tax made dealing for Marcum or Garza cost prohibitive, so Cash did the proper, if unpopular, thing and preached patience.

              • mike hc

                You don’t get it. It is not about the term 8th inning guy or set up guy. It is about thinking only someone who pitches the ninth inning is worth that money while the other relief innings are somehow less important. As for grienke I would nothave given up montero for him but think he would be fine to pitch in ny if the trade price was lower or if he was a free agent. I actually don’t buy into the whole he can’t handle ny thing.

                • rbizzler

                  No, I do get it. Cash thinks that spending exorbitant amounts of money on volatile commodities is bad business. And I agree with him on that.

                  Also, I find it amusing that you are quick to judge Cash for bringing back players who you thought ‘couldn’t handle New York, while also saying that you “actually don’t buy into the whole he can’t handle ny thing,” about Greinke.

                  • mike hc

                    Where did I ever say javy and pavano could not handle ny? I said I would not want them back on the team.

                    So you originally tried to pigeon hole me into your narrative that I’m an irrational fan who must also think grienke is too mental to handle ny and when I didn’t fit your narrative, you find it funny.

                    • rbizzler

                      I am a little late with a response, but I am having a hard time buying your explanation that you aren’t in the Javy/Pavano couldn’t handle NY camp. I am not trying to be combative, but judging from your response below (where you stated that Javy’s performance in 2004 turned you off as to his return), I think that you aren’t presenting the most coherent point of view. Basically, you didn’t want Javy or Pavano back because you think that they failed in their first stint in pinstripes and you would not appreciate having to root for them again even if they could help the team.

                      Correct?

                      If so, I will say that I am all for the Yanks making moves to improve their chances of success and they can feel free to disregard the intangible of whether or not the fans want to root for a certain guy. My guess is that if Javy pitched effectively last year, you would have gotten over the sour taste remaining from ’04.

                • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

                  As for grienke… I actually don’t buy into the whole he can’t handle ny thing.

                  yet you constantly shit on Javy for the same damn thing.

                  • mike hc

                    Yet I never analyzed javy’s mental make up ever but you constantly make up fan constructions in your head for whatever reason and assume every fan must be put into tighty little boxes

                    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

                      Dude, I think you are cool, but gimme one rational reason why you would’ve stayed away from Pavano/Javy with our current needs if they offered to pitch for free.

                    • mike hc

                      I like you too. And I don’t come here to put others down or make them feel badly about themselves so I do regret abit my earlier comment but I didn’t like that you just assumed I rip on javy for being mental when I never have.

                      I will handle them individually because they are both individual cases. I didn’t like the javy deal because I didn’t trust his ability to pitch in the al east. I was expecting an era of 4.5 or above when the trade went down and that is basically how it played out. Maybe a bit worse than expected. He was also not a guy I wanted to root for after that 2004 season. I thought he did enough damage to last my lifetime.

                      As for pavana, his first tenure with the yanks was nothing but disaster surrounding lying to the team about his injuries. I don’t think he deserves another chance in ny and is not someone I want to root for or have around the team. Plus, I also doubt how his stuff would play in the al east as it is clearly diminished from when we signed him the first time around. I was exaggerating the play for free thing but in general, would not want him back considering what happenned during his first four year stint.

          • David

            I agree. There is far too much pessimism about the team, and negativity about Cashman.

            You could easily look at where they are like this:

            Baseline – 95 wins, 6 game loss in ALCS.

            Offense – Should easily improve, with reversion to the mean for several players, such as Jeter, Tex, ARod.

            Defense – Clearly better. The difference Martin and Posada is enormous.

            Starting Pitching – If Andy comes back, perhaps better, perhaps a push. I believe he will be back.

            Relief Pitching – Easily better.

            Depth – Work to do. Can’t end up any worse than last year.

            And, all of this is without giving up prospects, which could change if they have to deal to replace Andy.

            Quite optimistic, contrary to most of what is written here.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          He also is keeping joba in the pen
          Poor move. Agreed.

          traded for javy again last year
          While expecting Javy to repeat what he did in 2009 was foolish (and I really don’t think anyone did), expecting him to fall apart the way he did was also foolish. For a one-year deal, it was a fine move.

          could not pull off the trade for haren last year
          We don’t really know what happened here, apparently they hadn’t talked for a while when the trade went down. At any rate, considering the crap Arizona took for him, you have to wonder where like, every other team was, too. Or what Arizona was looking for – you just don’t know.

          missed out on lee
          not his fault. either time.

          tried to bring pavano back this off season
          the second-best starter on the market after Lee? On a one-year deal that apparently didn’t even go very far? I don’t see why we have to get our pitchforks up about this.

          • mike hc

            No pitchfork. But shit starts to add up and all of a sudden three fifths of our rotation is aj, nova and mitre. Not good. As for javy and pavano, if people want them back, like cash, I guess that is ok. I would have stayed away with a ten foot pole even if they agreed to pitch for free. And neither did. We had to give up prospects for javy and a pick for pavano. I don’t want them on the team personally, so I’m not just going to change my tune if cash says he wants them. I will disagree with him.

            • Mister Delaware

              Doesn’t it make a lot more sense to judge the process, not the results? Joba is obviously a point of contention, but everything else you listed was either a logical move or something out of Cashman’s control. Trading for Swish wasn’t a great move because Swish has been really good, it was a great move because Cash bought low on a very talented player. Flipside is Javy, he was awesome in 2009, the trade made sense, it just didn’t work out.

              • mike hc

                not sure what you are getting at because I am judging the process. The decision to keep joba in the pen is bad. The decision to reaquire javy was bad and to give up a top pitching prospect. The decision to want pavano back regardless of the deal is bad. As for haren and lee, as bexy pointed out, I don’t really know the behind the scenes things so the judgements on those are tougher. But I do know we ended up with neither of them.

                • Mister Delaware

                  “The decision to keep joba in the pen is bad.”

                  Most of us agree on this. I granted it.

                  “The decision to reaquire javy was bad and to give up a top pitching prospect.”

                  Because he wasn’t awesome in 2009?

                  “The decision to want pavano back regardless of the deal is bad.”

                  Nose to spite face. Pavano is a better option than Mitre.

                  “As for haren and lee, as bexy pointed out, I don’t really know the behind the scenes things so the judgements on those are tougher. But I do know we ended up with neither of them.”

                  None of us know anything about Haren but we do know that Seattle backed out of a verbal deal the first time and Lee simply didn’t want to come to NY the second time. What could Cashman do different? Force Seattle to make a trade? Force Lee to sign the deal? There doesn’t always have to be blame.

    • pete

      I don’t see anything wrong with Cashman saying he’s in charge of reducing payroll, and I don’t see what you see in his quote about the eighth. I think it says that he’s against spending a lot of money on relievers, especially if he has already spent a lot of money on a reliever.

      • mike hc

        The reducing payroll quote I don’t like because I would prefer the yanks to continue to up the payroll, not reduce. That has nothing to do with cash though, that is ownership

        • Rick in Boston

          Upping the payroll and getting good value for the money are two different things, though. If the Yankees had negotiated a market-level deal with Jeter, the payroll would have gone down. Throwing money at players, while it’s a good thing, isn’t great business.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          The Yankees have been reducing payroll for a few years now, why is this all of a sudden a problem? They just offered Lee a gigantic contract, spending is not an issue.

        • rbizzler

          I think that the Yanks are willing to spend, albeit, only for players they think are worth the outlay. If they had landed Lee at 25 per and brought Andy back at 15 or so, the payroll would have actually exceeded last year’s threshold.

          Also, laying out elite closer cash for a set-up man, a deal that is fraught with risk for the team, is not exactly the best example of fiscal restraint.

          I am not at all concerned about the FO’s willingness or ability to spend dough. I am more concerned with knee-jerk moves that have long term implications. Especially, if those moves are made to pacify an overly-entitled and cranky fanbase.

          • http://twitter.com/steveh_MandAura Steve H

            Well said.

          • mike hc

            I would rather it not be cash’s job to reduce the payroll. I would prefer if cash said ownership has given me the ability to up the payroll to 300 million. I get this is not realistic. I get owners want to make money. I get I am just a fan who wants to see the possible players on the team regardless of finances. I get the yanks still spend more than just about everyone. I don’t get why any fan would want his team to reduce payroll but apparently some are happy about that.

        • Mike

          Yea, I don’t think increasing payroll just for the sake of increasing payroll is such a great idea.

  • Avi

    Pavano!!???

    • Mickey Scheister

      PAVANO?!?!

      • radnom

        PAVANO?????????

        • radnom

          goddamn thing turned my iterrobangs into normal question marks

  • long time listener

    I hear what everyone’s saying about Pavano – it doesn’t make sense to get overly emotional, and he’s better than Mitre, and it’s only one year. Still, it’s Carl Pavano.

  • Yankeefan91 Arod Fan

    all i have to say is pavano is better den mitre.

  • Monteroisdinero

    Soriano looks far less intimidating after the Yankee face shave. Send him back!

  • Yankeefan91 Arod Fan

    i just notice he looks exactly like yuniesky betancourt without the facial hair.

  • Monteroisdinero

    We will give Carl a big friendly NY second chance. Guy’s got location and a tough changeup/split finger? which he can throw for strikes behind in the count.

    At least when he wears a Twins uniform.

  • Yea I said it !

    Seems like its Damon Openheimer time !! Hope Hal overrules him about Joba to the bulpen obscession.

  • UncleArgyle

    No lie, I’d be pretty pumped to have Pavano right now. He’d be a very useful pitcher on a one year contract. Although I don’t think his soft tossing style would work in the postseason. He’d sure be better than Meat Tray.

  • Ruba_Doob

    while talking about pavano and other pitching options on MLBN, gammons said a gio gonzalez for montero trade would seem good……

    • http://twitter.com/steveh_MandAura Steve H

      Gammons hasn’t been relevant in 10 years.

      • jsbrendog (returns)

        ::wipes spittle from camera::

        great job peter

    • Monteroisdinero

      Gio no carry Montero’s jock.

    • MikeD

      I heard that, too. I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if Montero gets moved for pitching, I would be surprised if he was moved for a pitcher who most acknowledged pitched over his head last season and never quite had a year like he did last season, and most likely won’t ever again.

      I have no problem trading prospects. Just make sure what’s coming back matches the impact of what’s being sent out. Gio for Jesus is a bad match.

  • MikeD

    There are two issues here that I don’t like regarding the Soriano signing, and neither has anything to do with Soriano.

    1) Cashman’s public response tells me there is an issue with him and management. It may not be a huge issue, but it’s one nevertheless. He is sending a message/reminder to Hal Steinbrenner that his deal with his father was he, Cashman, runs baseball operations. If this was a single, one-time issue, I think Cashman would have played the good solider with the media. The fact that he didn’t may indicate there have been other issues between Cashman and Levine, and that Levine maybe trying to increase his power. This was a shot by Cashman that will be brought up again when Cashman’s goes to renegotiate his new contract. I also have no doubt that Cashman will walk away if he doesn’t get what he wants. So while Levine may be trying to increase his authority with the Steinbrenner’s, it may very well be that Levine is the one who ends up marginalized when Cashman’s new contract is completed.

    2) The A-Rod negotiations and the Soriano negotiations were all driven by the same man: Scott Boras. Cashman had no interest in either deal, yet Boras found away around Cashman in both instances. That’s unfortunate, because he’ll now continue to ignore Cashman and will now go back directly to Randy Levine to get to Hal’s ear.

  • Mike

    Looks like Cashman knows a little more than some people. You can’t simply justify spending so much on setup guy when even your GM doesn’t agree to it. I wonder if management is even following Cashman’s plan anymore.

  • Kurt

    Cashman has the worst track record in baseball when it comes to signing free agent pitchers so he shouldn’t beef when his boss steps in. Even considering the “American Idle” for a return engagement tells you that he’s clueless.

    • Evan3457

      As per the arguments above that you missed/ignored, no.