Jan
08

When Will Mariano Rivera Surpass Trevor Hoffman?

By

Really, a painting? (AP Photo/Morry Gash)

Before we get into the nitty gritty of the post, a little introduction: Hi. I’m Hannah. I really like the Yankees. Been a fan since I was about six years old, actually. The best way to reach me is probably through Twitter (@firstheart42). If you’re interested in knowing more about me, or have questions, comments, concerns, humorous banter, flames, send me a @reply. If you don’t have Twitter, you’re missing out. Now, to more important things.

There’s a reliever that hasn’t come up at all despite the discussion regarding the various bullpens: Trevor Hoffman. Before his disastrous 2010, Hoffman put together an absolutely stellar career, posting a ERA of 2.73, a WHIP of 1.04, and FIP of 4.08. He had 591 regular season saves and was looking to top off his sparkling resume with a nice even 600. Then, for no explainable reason, Hoffman lost it. His fastball velocity dropped and his change-up control suffered, leading to a simply catastrophic 2010. In some ways, Hoffman could be the poster boy for the volatility of relievers: after a fantastic 2009 (helped along by a .233 BABIP against, in comparison to his .266 career), Hoffman hit career lows almost everywhere: his ERA shot up to 5.89, his FIP hit 5.21, he got hit by the homeritis bug with 1.5 HR/9 (as opposed to his 2009’s 0.3 HR/9), and he couldn’t even get a 2:1 ratio on strikeouts to walks. It wasn’t as if something happened over the season: Hoffman blew four saves in April (out of seven opportunities) and continued to perform poorly until before the Brewers stripped him of his closer role in June and gave it John Axford. It took him until September 7th to get his 600th save. On the year, Hoffman got just 10 saves, bring his total up to 601 regular season saves. He did it 15 opportunities. Yeah, that’s right. His save conversation percentage was 66%. What a nightmare. On the list of people in baseball I would not wanted to be in 2010, Trevor Hoffman is way up there.

Hoffman’s a free agent right now and he’s looking for a closing job. A cheap opportunity for whoever misses out on the Soriano Sweepstakes? Maybe. He could certainly retire if he doesn’t find a job and a contract he wants and I’m sure baseball would get by just fine without him.  If anything, he could be a good guy to have in your bullpen in case your current closer pulls a, well, a Trevor Hoffman in 2011.

So, where does that leave Mo? Well, originally this article was going to be ‘Will Mo Catch Hoffman,’ but the more I looked at it, the more obvious it became: of course he will. Assuming Rivera avoids a Hoffman-esque apocalypse (a scenario that even the mere mention of should give any Yankee fan nightmares), it should be easy. The Greatest of All Time has 559 regular season saves as is, and if he doesn’t string together 41 more (42 to beat Hoffman) between two more seasons, I’ll be more surprised than not. After all, ever since he became full-time closer in 1997, he’s never picked up less than 37 saves. The more interesting question: Can he do it in 2011? I’m not so sure.

Here’s where the going gets a little rocky. In the past five years, Rivera has logged only one 40+ save season (2009, with 44 in 55 appearances). He picked up 33 in 2010 in the same amount of appearances, logging a couple more blown saves as well. His numbers in 2010 were, as always, jaw-droppingly good: 1.80 ERA, 0.833 WHIP, 2.81 FIP. Despite this, both his bb/9 and his k/9 trended the wrong way, and even if the increase in walks was insignificant (a mere tenth of a point), his drop in strikeouts was huge (almost 3/9IP) despite being granted one of the widest strike zones in baseball. Now, we know Mo’s not really a strikeout pitcher, so it might not be as much of a problem as, say, Tim Lincecum, but it’s not what you want to see. The other problem is that Rivera was assisted by a .230 BABIP against  – his second-lowest ever. The lowest was .223, in 1999, if you were wondering. The problem with all of these numbers is that there are no giant, definitive changes. His FB/GB%, for example, remained almost exactly as 2009 (51%), for one, and Rivera’s reliance on broken-bat dribblers to second and short is a big part of how he does what he does.

So, to answer the question, I’m going to err on the side of caution and go with a most likely ‘no.’ That’s not because I think Rivera will get all those opportunities and blow them; I think that his age will have us see just a little less of the closer we know and love for everything he’s done. Injuries might factor in as well: in 2010, Rivera was day-to-day with oblique and knee pain and withdrew from the All Star Game. Although immortal, Rivera might be just a little creakier than he was last year, and Girardi may even be just a bit more hesitant to play him: he had only 3 2-inning appearances in ’10.

Like wins, saves don’t really tell you that much, but it’s nice to have a whole bunch of them topped off in a nice round number, and it’s certainly even nicer to have more of them than anyone else. If Hoffman does manage to pick up a closing job (Rays?), the race might get more interesting, but until then, Rivera is racing against himself and not much else. All I have the say is that the Yankees organization will hopefully give him more than a painting for his accomplishment, because man, a painting? I guess it is the Brewers…

Edited to Add: I have absolutely no idea how I messed this up, but Rivera has six seasons with less than 37 saves since 1997, actually. Just bear with me while I acclimate myself to this position and things will get smoother. I am unclutch. Apologies. Thanks Ross for pointing this out to me.

Categories : Players
  • Danimal

    YES!

    • Danimal

      and my feeling is by the ASB the year after next. May 20th… 2012, mark it down

  • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

    This reminds me of the derpy painting A-Rod got after he hit #500, heh.

    Girardi may even be just a bit more hesitant to play him: he had only 3 2-inning appearances in ’10.
    IIRC two of them came in a really short time span on that West Coast interleague swing against Arizona and the Dodgers. I could be wrong though.

    (YAY HANNAH. <33333)

    • Jose the Satirist

      I should’ve refreshed. You are correct.

  • Jose the Satirist

    Interestingly enough two of those three 2.0 IP appearances happened 3 days apart in June. Strange that Girardi would get that much use out of Mo in such a short time frame.

  • Dionyyy

    A chick talking about FIP?

    Hot.

    • Mike Myers

      hahaha

    • http://www.twitter.com/adorador00 Ray Fuego

      Very Hot.

  • mike

    tough part of a save is you can’t really predict when you’ll need the closer. Every game doesn’t end in a save situation

    • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 Hannah Ehrlich

      Curiously enough, no matter how good your team is, there’s no real correlation between W and SVO. The Royals, for example, had more saves than the Yankees, most likely because they didn’t have the amazing offensive power that we have. The Diamondbacks had fewer than us. And so on.

  • Johnny Noone

    You should really proof-read before you publish your next article. That was kind of brutal.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ngoral Jake LaMotta’s Left Hook

      That was kind of brutal.

      you’re so nice…

    • Matt

      agreed. Not a good start for your first post.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

      What is up with posts by the non-regulars and jerk-y comments? Steve’s articles used to get them too.

      • Carl Utica

        By non-regulars you mean non-regular commenters. Because there are far more people who read the blog and don’t comment every 30 seconds than people who do.

        Being all high and mighty because you think commenting on everything all the time makes you the authoratative precenae on everything just makes you rather annoying.

        If you are writing for an audience as large as RAB’s – making sure your article is readable as well as accurate and engaging is important.

        • http://www.twitter.com/cephster Ross In Jersey

          What part of that comment was high and mighty? The only point being made that often there are commenters who come out of the woodwork to insult either the Yankees or writers/people here.

          It has nothing to do with the frequency of comments. It’s the difference between offering constructive criticism and being an outright jerk. Of course, it’s the internet, you can do whatever you want. But the people who comment regularly are usually friendly towards each other, and if you come around insulting people you shouldn’t be surprised if it’s not taken to kindly.

          I didn’t think Hannah’s post was all that great, but it was fine for a first-time writer and she’s made efforts to correct any errors. If it makes someone feel better to call it “brutal” then so be it.

          • Johnny Noone

            How do any of the comments warrant us being “outright jerks”? Constructive criticism is not intended to be mean, it merely suggests the author take some time and give us better material. Even so, are we not allowed to boo a little bit when we are underwhelmed? Tell that to the players we boo for underwhelming us on the field.

            Also, try telling the hundreds of potential writers that were not chosen (I was not one of them) that they were overlooked for a not all that great post but fine for a first-time writer.

            Last time I checked we are Yankee fans and if this is your first post on RAB, you better not make us wait till a late-May extra inning grand slam (Jason Giambi) to show us why you are here.

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

              You should really proof-read before you publish your next article. That was kind of brutal.

              This is baseball, and it is the most important thing in the world to me, all I am saying is that if I had the privilege to write for this site, I would take more pride in it.

              Also, try telling the hundreds of potential writers that were not chosen (I was not one of them) that they were overlooked for a not all that great post but fine for a first-time writer.
              Last time I checked we are Yankee fans and if this is your first post on RAB, you better not make us wait till a late-May extra inning grand slam (Jason Giambi) to show us why you are here.

              This is not constructive criticism.

              • DanMizer

                Who Cares…

            • http://www.twitter.com/cephster Ross In Jersey

              Outright jerk = “That was kind of brutal”

              Constructive criticism = “Hey Hannah nice post, but you should correct [this error] and also the stat you listed is wrong, it’s actually this”

              I thought that’s kind of obvious. Interesting parallel to the Yankees, would you give up on a player because of a rocky at-bat or two when it was clear the talent is there? Of course not.

              • Johnny Noone

                If that is your idea of constructive criticism, you must be a first grade teacher. You are probably one of those new generation types that thinks they shouldn’t keep score in little league games and that the last place team deserves a participation trophy.

                And that is how I differentiate constructive criticism and being intentionally brutal.

                • http://www.twitter.com/cephster Ross In Jersey

                  I obviously simplified it so you’d get the general idea. If you don’t see the difference between saying “this sucks” and politely offering examples and corrections, I don’t know what to tell you.

                  But judging from your earlier comments you’re someone who doesn’t appreciate unrealized talent until it’s proven to you so I can’t say I’m surprised.

                  • Johnny Noone

                    Judging from the irrelavance of posts and child-like vulgarity found on her website, I am expecting better production out of Ramiro Pena this season.

                    • http://www.twitter.com/cephster Ross In Jersey

                      You really take random posts and ranting on a blog to be indicative of one’s ability to write? That’s like reading someone’s dairy and using it to judge a person’s ability to write a compelling story.

                • http://historyandfutility.wordpress.com The Oberamtmann

                  I read RAB constantly (comments included) and I pretty much never post because I want to avoid getting sucked in. I would never leave.

                  I had to comment here because I actually agree with Johnny about over-babying people. However, you are either demonstrating your idea improperly or using a valid anti-PC argument to mask your jerkiness.

                  I actually have to teach college students who often never learned proper writing or critical thinking skills, many of whom have that wonderful sense of entitlement and cannot take being criticized and it drives me crazy. My advisor wrips my writing apart and it’s the greatest learning experience I’ve ever had. But that’s not what you’re doing.

                  The proper critical response would be:
                  Hannah, I have to admit that I really did not like your article. The reasons are a, b, and c. Actually, point D was simply awful for the following reasons, etc. etc.

                  That is a mean critique, but it is still a critique. To use your analogy, you’re not advocating not patting all the kids on the head and telling them they all did great. You’re advocating going up to a four year old in T-ball and telling him he sucks and will never amount to anything.

                  • http://historyandfutility.wordpress.com The Oberamtmann

                    Wow, first post and full of typos. I’ve had a long week….

                    Also wanted to say that I enjoyed the article overall. I did submit to be a weekend writer and was (properly) rejected because, as you can see on my blog, my baseball blogging is still rather amateurish.

                    I do plan to post a piece comparing baseball teams to early modern European countries in the next couple weeks on my own blog. You’d all read that, right? Bueller?

                    • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 Hannah Ehrlich

                      I totally would, and I’m not just saying that.

                    • http://historyandfutility.wordpress.com The Oberamtmann

                      Hannah: It’s not letting me reply directly to you but if you send me an e-mail I’ll let you know when it goes up.

          • Carl Utica

            Assuming that people that don’t comment every day are non-regulars came off as a little prissy.

            Compared to the quality of writing that’s usually featured here, the article was kind of brutal. Lists of stats loosely connected to a fairly simple question that’s never actually answered.

            I’ve certainly read worse material, but not on this blog. If regular commenters get upset when someone offers a truthful and honest review, that’s a personal problem.

            • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

              When I said “posts by the non-regulars” I meant the weekend writer posts bring out jackassy comments. It used to happen with Steve’s posts too. I wasn’t referring to non-regular commenters, should’ve been clearer on my part.

              • Poopy Pants

                I remember one of Steve’s posts was just absolutely awful. That can bring out a lot of ‘jerky’ comments.

            • http://www.twitter.com/cephster Ross In Jersey

              No, a personal problem is feeling the need to try to publicly humiliate someone and then trying to hide it under the veil of constructive criticism when you clearly just have some kind of vendetta against the perceived arrogance of frequent posters.

            • Danimal

              Enter dead horse.

              Let the beating commence…

        • I Voted 4 Kodos

          making sure your article is readable as well as accurate and engaging is important.

          Not a single thing about that article is unreadable.

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          By non-regulars you mean non-regular commenters. Because there are far more people who read the blog and don’t comment every 30 seconds than people who do.

          Agreed.

          Being all high and mighty because you think commenting on everything all the time makes you the authoratative precenae on everything just makes you rather annoying.

          Thanks. You can go make fun of me on NoMaas like others if you want!

          If you are writing for an audience as large as RAB’s – making sure your article is readable as well as accurate and engaging is important.

          Don’t see what about this is unreadable and if you don’t think it’s engaging, you can just skip it after a few sentences.

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

            Also, there’s a way of commenting if you don’t like someone’s article or you notice errors where you can come off as not particularly rude. What you said, and what Johnny Noone said, is not that way.

      • shawn

        bex is just a douche plain and simple

        • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

          Thanks, it’s appreciated.

          • http://twitter.com/nebkreb Nebkreb

            Maybe if you cut your ponytail you’d be less of a douche.

    • Skip

      Oh, sorry I thought I was on a baseball blog for a second there. I should have known that I was on a blog for pretentious grammer ( <– see what I just did there? stick it) snobs only.

      Otherwise, most of us welcome Hannah to RAB. Anytime there's a new writer that means more content for me to read and pass the time. I look forward to you and the other 2 new writers.

    • Johnny Noone

      Oh because I am not a regular commenter means I don’t read daily? This may only be a “baseball blog”, but it doesn’t mean I have slow my read up to try and understand loosely fragmented sentences. Regardless of grammar, If I wanted to read stats I would go to baseball-reference…what is the point of this article, where is the insight. This is baseball, and it is the most important thing in the world to me, all I am saying is that if I had the privilege to write for this site, I would take more pride in it.

      • Bob Stone

        I agree.

      • aldot

        Kind of agree. For the part that says “So, to answer the question, I’m going to err on the side of caution and go with a most likely ‘no’ ” I had to go back to find the question. Was it the headline question, “When Will Mariano Rivera Surpass Trevor Hoffman?”? Apparently not, because “no” couldn’t possibly answer the question as posed. You have to search two paragraphs back to find out that “no” was the answer to the question, “Can he do it in 2011?”, to which she had already answered “I’m not so sure.” Well now, what is it — no or she’s not so sure?

        I get where Hannah was trying to go, but the was a ride was a little bumpy.

        • JAG

          I agree that I didn’t like how the question in…question…wasn’t restated there, but that was honestly the only part of the post I found confusing. Everything else seemed laid out quite clearly, although I could have used more references to particular stats for Hoffman’s 2010. I agree that the post could have used a little more polish but I didn’t think it warranted being rated as “brutal.”

          Overall a fine starting point, Hannah. Well done.

      • jsbrendog

        If you wanted to read stats youd go to br? are you sure you’ve ever read this site?

    • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

      Way to thread jack, guys.

      Mike, Ben, and Joe have said this many times, if you find a typo, use the “submit a tip” box on the right. We don’t need 40 comments arguing with each other on what is and what is not constructive criticism.

  • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

    Yeah 2011 seems unlikely. Hopefully if he’s only a few away they give the Yankees a big homestand to start the year.

  • Ross

    Mariano has had six (not zero) seasons with fewer (not “less”) than 37 saves since 1997.

    Welcome, Hannah : )

    • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 Hannah Ehrlich

      Had no idea. Thank you for your constructive comments. I will edit immediately.

    • Bob Stone

      Another grammar Nazi. I happen to like that one though. Most people just don’t seem to know that fewer is for numbers and less is for amounts. The two terms are totally bastardized in today’s usage.

    • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 Hannah Ehrlich

      Wow. That is a glaring error on my part. I don’t even know why I wrote that. I must have been looking at the wrong box on BBRef or something. Thanks.

  • Jake

    Nice first article. I expected worst.

  • Bob Stone

    I have noticed a pattern with ALL the posts here on RAB regarding the few grammatical/spelling errors made. They seem to be related to the method by which the posts are made. I am guessing that all posts on RAB are made with a voice-to-text software program like Dragon Software’s Naturally Speaking. I say that becuase the errors are often context-oriented (i.e. the words are spelled correctly but they are just the wrong words).

    That’s just a guess. Perhaps the RABbis will enlighten us.

    • Mike Myers

      Bob,

      This website updates 2/3 times a day with educated articles. They have almost no staff, its not a newspaper. Errors will be made, get over it. Enjoy how good they are….and that its FREE. Even SI or ESPN have mistakes on the sites dude to how often they post, and they have massive editing staffs.

      • Bob Stone

        Mike,

        Where in my comment did I express dissatisfaction to the degree that you feel I need to “get over it”? I have no problem with the errors (notice that I said “few errors”). I wasm merely postulating why they occur.

        I am a long time-reader and love what the RABbis do here.

    • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

      Welcome Hannah.

      I too have always wondered when Mo will surpass Trevor Hoffman. I know saves is a stat that doesn’t tell you much of anything, but I would still like to see a Yankee have the all time record for something. Yes, I know it is possible that A-Rod becomes the HR king, but that’s not guaranteed with his health issues. If Hoffman retires, I bet Mo breaks the record sometime after the All-Star break in 2012. I think we’ll see one more year of the Mo we all know and love and then the next year, father time may eventually catch up with him.

      Oh and about the declining peripherals, it was a weird season for him. He was just crushing the world in April and June, allowing 0 runs and striking out a whole lot (9.0 and 11.1 K/9s respectively). May was a little rough, thanks to Joba (vs twins and sox) and Marcus Thames (vs sox) that one day. July was a normal month, nothing out of the ordinary, his K/9 rate was a little low at 6.8. In August his K/9 rate plummets to 2, but still gives up only 2 runs. Then it seems like the wheels just fell off in September, probably due to overuse, age, or injury, or all the above. Up until September he gave up 6 earned runs, in September he gave up 6 ER.

      • http://www.twitter.com/TomZig Tom Zig

        Shit not meant to be a reply.

  • Bob Stone

    Hannah – Great first post, all nit-picking aside. As a long-term Mariano fan I frequently check the comparative stats bewteen Hoffman and Mo and always keep in mind that Mo has pitched two fewer (there’s that word again) years. I expect Mo to break Hoffman’s record and be the eventual all time leader for saves after both are retired.

  • http://161ststreet.wordpress.com Chris A

    Good post Hannah, don’t worry about the mistake. I’m excited to read your posts, as well as Brock and Stephen’s.

  • http://twitter.com/nebkreb Nebkreb

    I have it from good sources that this writer ‘Hannah’ has a ponytail. Make of that what you will.

    • http://www.twitter.com/cephster Ross In Jersey

      While I agree ponytails are a very nice haircut, Mariano Rivera is 40 years old and how many saves is he going to get without pee-hands Posada guiding him through the 9th inning? Only time will tell. lol whatevs.

      • JAG

        Well if it makes that much difference, we could always just sub Posada in to catch the 9th. It’s not like you’ll suffer from losing the DH spot when you’re getting the save and ending the game there anyway.

        Putting Posada back there would require the official scorer to be fairly generous with the defensive indifference calls, of course.

    • David Lee Roth

      I don’t get it.

  • David Lee Roth

    Mo won’t get as many opportunities to record saves if we don’t have a reliable bridge to get to him. The though of another season of watching Joba make his confused face when he gets slapped around sickens me. It is IMPERATIVE we go after Soriano. Our pitching rotation is as weak as its been in years, so the games we actually have a lead in we NEED to make sure they are protected.

    • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

      a good bullpen is no compensation for a bad rotation; by extension, a man who will pitch 1/12 of all innings in a year is no compensation for a pick in the 201 draft.

      • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

        That; plus, multi-year deals for relievers = no no.

  • Sick Nwisher

    Welcome Hannah.

    Some of you need to purchas,e “How to remove stick from ass for Dummies”
    It may be, the best five dollars, you have ever spent.

  • Monteroisdinero

    Yes-welcome Hannah. Thanks and keep up the good work. These are slow times and Yankee fans are irritable right now. A few Jesus bombs in Tampa should perk everyone up. He will be the big upgrade for 2011 and we will pick up pitchers along the way. I have concerns about Mo when needed in back to back games at his age these next few years. Another argument for Soriano for the non-believers in Joba.

  • Andy in Sunny daytona

    You go girl!

    /1990s’d

  • NDR

    Welcome aboard Hannah. As much as we all hate to think about it, age will get to Mariano eventually. I still think the question of whether he will catch Hoffman is valid. Mariano has been more susceptible to minor injuries recently and has to be used with more care these days. It is possible that he could suffer a more serious injury that at his age could be career ending (Mo forbid), or his performance or ability to take the field could start to be compromised by a variety of minor injuries. We also can’t rule out a Hoffman-like collapse, although I think this is probably less likely than injury-related decline. I think it is probable he will pass Hoffman, but I don’t see it as close to being a lock. That said, I would also not be surprised if he broke Hoffman’s record next year and went on to have several more effective years- Mariano’s age and greatness puts him in somewhat uncharted territory.

  • Donna L

    Welcome, Hannah. Nice post, and thanks for correcting the factual error about seasons with < 37 saves.

    And to all the harsh critics: there was nothing "constructive" about what you said; it was clearly intended to be insulting. And, yes, I don't believe for one moment that any of you would have been that harsh if the post had been written by a man.

    • Bob Stone

      That comment is totally sexist. I, for one, do not consider gender when I write comments.

    • John

      This is inappropriate and should be removed. This is blatant conjecture.

    • Johnny Noone

      I agree with Bob Stone, that is totally sexist to say. One of my favorite baseball websites was created and moderated by a woman (Eephus League).

      I posted what people think are “harsh” comments because the article was riddled with grammatical errors, false information and an overall lack of insight and a failure to even attempt an answer to her own question. It has nothing to do with the fact that a woman posted it.

      • http://historyandfutility.wordpress.com The Oberamtmann

        Your complaints about the post here are closer to what is acceptable as non-babying criticism than what you wrote earlier in the comments section. Yes, I’m pointing that out even though you ignored what I wrote above.

        It’s still not constructive, but this is at least criticism.

    • hogsmog

      Reverse sexism is sexism.

  • http://danielslifka.wordpress.com Jerome S.

    It doesn’t make sense to criticize articles here; aren’t we all distracting ourselves from work anyway?

  • Porkchop

    Porkchops rule. Stop hattin’ on Hannah.

  • http://twitter.com/simmonsclass Sam

    I enjoyed this post. Haters gonna hate.

  • UYF1950

    I doubt he will catch Hoffman in 2011. The way I see it, it will be the 3rd week of June 2012. He will end a fantastic career when his current contract expires with 625 career saves.

  • John Ryan

    Wow – new writers!

    A sincere welcome from a regular reader (but non-regular commenter) – really like the idea of this post.

    But, did anyone else find this difficult to read? I found it very awkwardly worded and choppy at parts…no worries, though. Welcome, and I look forward to reading more!

  • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

    *Golf clap*

    Bravo Hannah, and don’t let one minor error make you think that the piece wasn’t good. To use a baseball metaphor, errors are part of the game. It was a good read, and I really enjoyed it.

    With that out of the way, I really don’t care if Mo catches Hoffman or not. As you noted, the Save isn’t a great stat to begin with, and there are other ways to display Mo’s greatness. His post season records, his Career ERA+, his grace and class. FIP has never loved Mo, but for me that just shows the limitations of FIP.

    I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again. Mo will never retire, one day he will ascend from the mound directly into Heaven.

    • http://twitter.com/firstheart42 Hannah Ehrlich

      After he saves the last game of the World Series.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        Of course.

    • Angelo

      Agreed. Great post

  • Big Apple

    silly question….Mo surpasses Hoffman without having the most saves. Hoffman has put up big numbers but he hasn’t saved a game that has meant anything in years…plus, the “save” stat is the most overrated state in sports.

  • Chris in Maine

    Pretty sure Hoffman lost his fastball years ago, not this season.

  • hstuda

    The real question is if anyone cares whether Mo’ surpasses Hoffman. No one who doesn’t wolf down jugs upon jugs of the ‘drank all day considers them even to be in the same class.

  • Ralph

    Congratulations to Bud Selig and the Hoffman publicity crew for this article complete with large family photo. No one cares about Hoffman in New York and they are tired of shills bringing his name up for no reason except he needs the publicity and hopes to build his lackluster aura by attaching his name to Mo’s. Hoffman and his group are into awards, and now they’re on a campaign to get him in the Hall. Bud Selig has spoken up on Hoffman’s behalf saying he should get in. He will get in of course, but they hope to improve the odds by making his name appear in proximity to Rivera’s so people will think, oh, they’re so much alike, Hoffman and Rivera. Nothing could be further from the truth. To have an article here about the ‘regular season total save stat’ and if Mo will “catch” the other guy of course throws in the trash Mo’s body of work including post season, all star, ROB, multi innings, not taking most of 2003 off for surgery, being available almost daily for down the stretch brutal pennant races, HR/IP, playing so many multi innings in the post season, which twice lasted into November, etc. There is no comparison between the two pitchers, but they like to put articles like this out to help Hoffman and diminish Mo, level the playing field. Floating the idea that Hoffman could be a Yankee is the same idea. Hoffman continues to have an army in the media who come out with an array of ways to improve his aura by confusing or leaving out a lot of what Mo is.

  • http://thelast42.com Jason Carulli

    I posted odds on when Mariano will pass Trevor Hoffman over at thelast42.com, check it out!

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