Trade Rumors: Ubaldo, Betances, Brown, Kuroda

The RAB Radio Show: July 29th, 2011
Heee's back! Soriano activated off DL

The latest from the trade rumor circuit…

  • Talks between the Yankees and Rockies about Ubaldo have not gone well, mostly because Colorado is marketing him as an ace while the Yankees see him as more of a number two. There’s also some suspicion that’s something’s wrong since he’s on the market in the first place. (Joel Sherman)
  • The Yankees are willing to move Jesus Montero and Dellin Betances in the same package for a sure thing, but they don’t feel Ubaldo fits the bill. (Sherman)
  • There’s some speculation that the Yankees could get involved in the Hunter Pence-to-Philadelphia deal by being a third team. They would trade Betances for Domonic Brown, the left-handed impact bat they lack. I’d make that deal too, in a heartbeat. Philadelphia had a scout in Trenton last night to watch Betances. Remember, that scenario is just speculation. (Sherman, Sherman)
  • One note on Hiroki Kuroda: because of his no-trade clause, there’s a league mandated 24-hour period before a deal can be finalized. That means the deadline to trade him is tomorrow, not Sunday. There still hasn’t been an indication that he’s on the move.
  • One rival executive said the Yankees have been “suspiciously quiet” so far, or as I like to say, ninja-like. (Marc Carig)

Update: Ken Rosenthal says the Yankees have made multiple calls to the Dodgers about Kuroda today, but none to the Rockies about Jimenez.

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The RAB Radio Show: July 29th, 2011
Heee's back! Soriano activated off DL
  • http://yankeesfansunite.wordpress.com Mike D.

    On the topic of trade rumors, the Reds might be inclined to start selling, the word is. Any chance Johnny Cueto could become available, and if so the Yankees would surely pursue big time right?

    • David, Jr.

      Selling? I read that they may now be the leading buyer for Ubaldo.

      • http://yankeesfansunite.wordpress.com Mike D.

        There are mixed messages about buying vs. selling, but no the Reds are not at the lead anymore. At the lead are the Yanks and Red Sox as far as I’ve heard.

      • http://www.firstresponseinc.net NY Sorry Excuses

        Well, Girardi says he has a Championship yesterday…..do we want to go into the playoffs with Burnett pitching in Game 2 or 3?

        It is now the soft “good guys”, Girardi and Cashman, wanting to float around in the trade deadline shadows while THEIR TEAM IS SCREAMING FOR HELP?

        They are completely ok with the wildcard…..they have screwed up my kids’ youth of loving the Yankees potential dominance by trashing Joba, now Hughes, messing with Mitre and other lazy players.

        We can’t hit – don’t hit lefties, knuckleballers, junk pitchers, rookies or anybody they havent analyzed and discussed, or any pitcher who throws strikes and isn’t scared of them. Those they can hit – they sit up there and take until they get 2 strikes, then chase junk.

        They have no pride in home field games, and are content to put junk pitchers in to eat innings, get shelled, and preserve their pitcher’s records.

        Sick of them…..should have hired Clint Hurdle. Too Blue Collar for the Yankees brass, I guess……

  • Cy Pettitte

    Philly seems to be getting desperate for Pence, that would be sick if we could get them to over pay big for someone like Betances.

    • Ted Nelson

      Is Dominic Brown really “overpaying big” for Betances?

      • V

        Abso-fricking-lutely.

        • Ted Nelson

          I disagree. I think their value is pretty comparable. Both very high reward, but high risk as well.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            Yeah, no, Brown’s already in the majors. Betances is 23 and having trouble past the 6th in the Eastern League while pitching half of his games in the best pitcher’s park in the league. In a vacuum Brown has way more value.

            • Ted Nelson

              That is your opinion, and I have pretty clearly stated that my opinion is different. I do not put any stock whatsoever in your opinion… so honestly I am not interested in discussing it.

              • HK

                Sounds like a republican…

                • Ted Nelson

                  ? I am not randomly saying this, I have discussed many issues with Jimmy before and do not value his opinion. There are many, many posters on this site whose opinion I do value.

                  • CMP

                    a little hostile today, aren’t we.

                • Thomas Cassidy

                  That’s right. Those damn Republicans not discussing opinions.

                  Remember that one time when they all left the state so they couldn’t vote on a bill? Oh, wait…

              • Will in NJ

                Completely objective observation: you are perhaps the douchiest poster on this site. Congratulations.

                • Ted Nelson

                  You’re entitled to your opinion. As I say above, I have discussed many issues with Jimmy before and do not value his opinion. There are many, many posters on this site whose opinion I do value.

                  • Mister Delaware

                    Name them.

                    • CMP

                      Me, Myself and I. That would be my guess.

                • Oscar Gamble’s Fro

                  There is no “perhaps” about it. That’s pure unadulterated Summer’s Eve right there. Crown him.

              • Jimmy McNulty

                Hey, is this you?

                http://1rico.files.wordpress.c…..e-sand.jpg

  • Simon

    Im not familiar with Dominic Brown. What is the rundown on him?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      He’s on par with Montero offensively. Left-handed bat, legit right fielder. So perfect for the Yankees, not even funny.

      • Simon

        Ah ok thanks, Yanks should jump on the dance floor then!

      • Mark D.

        If the Yankees get Domonic Brown, does that mean that Swisher’s days are numbered as a Yankee? Will the Yankees then turn and trade Swisher or not pick up his option in the offseason? I would love to get Domonic Brown from the Phillies, but its going to be interesting what the Yankees next move would be afterwards.

        • Rick in Boston

          If (and obviously, big if) the Yanks got Brown, they’d probably move Swisher to DH and then either swap him and his option elsewhere or not pick it up in the off-season.

          • jsbrendog

            def pick it up and trade him if you dont want him to dh

          • Ted Nelson

            Not sure Swisher would be the DH of the two… Brown’s Fld is -9.6 in 88 MLB games…

      • whereintown is aj bernette

        He is struggling right now he would go on the bech as a yankee

      • Ted Nelson

        Like Montero except, you know, he’s almost 24 years old and has -0.6 fWAR in the bigs…

        I think it’s a good buy-low opportunity for a talented hitter, but I’m not sure he’s an obvious upgrade over Betances.

        • jsbrendog

          234 ml atbaTS

          • Ted Nelson

            I’m not saying he’s not a great prospect… I’m saying that he is a prospect. Just like Betances. He might do well, just like Betances. He might fail, just like Betances. He is also bad defensively, so his value rests in his bat… he’s not helping much if his bat doesn’t come around. I would probably trade Betances for him, I’m just saying that I disagree with people who act like his HOF ticket is already punched.

            • Jimmy McNulty

              I don’t think anyone’s acting like his HoF ticket is already punched.

              “He might do well, just like Betances. He might fail, just like Betances.”

              You’re phrasing this quite awfully. You’re setting the two up as they’re just as likely to happen. Every player might fail, and every prospect might do well. There’s inherent risk in every player, because they might get hit by a bus tomorrow or they might cough or sneeze wrong and tear a lat, and basically ruin their career. Betances has control problems, an injury history, and issues getting out of the 6th inning in a big pitcher’s park. There’s quite a bit more risk in that than a 24 year old highly athletic prospect already in the majors.

              • Jimmy McNulty
                • Jimmy McNulty

                  Ugh, reply fail…

              • Ted Nelson

                Rating prospects is not a scientific thing. In my opinion it is close to as likely to happen for both.

                You think there’s no risk in Brown’s swing?

                I have offered a Brandon Wood rookie card to Mister Douchaware, I’ll give it to you for $4,100.

                • Mister Delaware

                  I swear there’s a corollary to Godwin’s law that, in a one on one internet confrontation, the weaker debater will make a “humorous” change to the stronger debater’s user name.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    Jimmy’s main argument in every thread is “the sky is falling.”

                    • Jimmy McNulty

                      My main argument is that Boston’s a better team right now, to have the best chances at winning a World Series, also not letting Boston win one, the team needs to improve. I also think Phil Hughes sucks and hate Rafael Soriano.

      • Evan3457

        Not for nothing, but why can’t the Phils keep both Brown and Pence (assuming they don’t have to trade Brown for Pence, and just put Brown (or Pence) in left? It’s not like Ibanez is tearing it up this year, and his contract is up at the end of the season.

        • Ted Nelson

          I believe the proposal is a 3 way deal in which the Yankees trade Betances to the Astros, the Astros trade Pence to the Phillies, and the Phillies trade Brown to the Yankees (plus whatever other parts).

    • Pants Lendelton

      Hit a ton in the minors. Huge hole in his swing. Basically B.J Upton 2.0

      • Alfredo

        to bad we are not the Rays and i would do this deal everytime because we have Kevin Long he can fix everyone. i would love donomic brown on this team and have Swisher DH.

        • Ted Nelson

          Brown is not exactly a gold-glover in RF… he might be the one DHing.

      • Jimmy McNulty

        Have any evidence to back this up? He’s only had high strikeout rates once in the minors, and that was shortly after getting promoted to AA when he was 21. BJ Upton basically developed in the majors so the comparison is awfully flawed. BJ Upton’s MiLB career K-rate was 23.4%, whereas Brown’s career high was 22.4.

      • MikeD

        I would trade Betances for BJ Upton, too.

        If the Yankees can get Brown for Betances they should pull they trigger yesterday.

  • Soam

    Am I missing something? Why are people so willing to trade Betances for Brown? He’s about to be 24, and while he definitely has the ceiling to be an all star OF, he doesn’t really help us right now considering he’s struggled at the ML level thus far. It’s a prospect for prospect deal, except one has been failing at the ML level for 2 seasons. Not something that gets me excited.

    • Pants Lendelton

      Exactly.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      He’s got 274 plate appearances in the bigs, and has hit .308/.413/.423 over the last hundred or so. Betances can barely get through 6 IP in AA. He fills a big need.

      • Soam

        What need does Brown fill? The Yanks have a highly productive OF that is set for this season AND next season. If they move Swisher to DH, they only further block Montero. However, their biggest need is a front line starter. So again, how does this make sense for us?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

          They have no left-handed power bats coming up the system. Corban Joseph is the best of the lot. Cheap production for the next five years, frees up cash for rotation or whatever else.

          • Soam

            I see your logic, but you could just as easily say the Yanks don’t have any power pitchers coming up the system. Betances could give them cheap production for 5 years and free up cash for the lineup. Considering our OF is already set for this year and next and the rotation has a lot of question marks, I think holding onto a stud SP prospect fits our needs better. Especially since moving swisher to DH would block Montero further. Yanks won’t need an OF until 2013, let’s chill.

          • Ted Nelson

            “They have no left-handed power bats coming up the system.”

            When you have Cano, Granderson, Teixeira, Swisher, Gardner, Jorge, Chavez… I’m not sure LHB can be considered a need.

            You can honestly tell me with a straight face that LHB is a bigger need for the Yankees today or looking forward than SP?????????

            • Ted Nelson

              I’m in favor of value over need, by the way… but calling LHB a need for the Yankees period let alone a bigger need than pitcher seems laughable to me. Cano, Granderson, Gardner, and Teixeira are probably going to be fixtures in this line-up for a while.

              I can see feeling Brown has more value than Betances, but I feel like you’re turning Betances into a srawman and making a pretty even swap look really lopsided.

            • jsbrendog

              jorge chavez swisher gardner possibly granderson will all be gone before brown is even done with arbitration

              • Ted Nelson

                Jorge and Chavez sure, but I doubt it on Granderson and Gardner. Yankees are not going to suddenly run out of money.

                I’m not saying I don’t make the trade… I’m saying that I don’t think it’s such an obvious HR deal as people are making it out to be. Brown is awful defensively and it’s possible that his bat doesn’t ever come around. Still a strong prospect, but so is Betances. Betances has questions, but so does Brown.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

              I’m not overly confident in Betances’ ability to be a starter long-term, or at least have an impact within two or three years.

              • Ted Nelson

                Fair enough. I just think the difference is more marginal than you let on.

              • toad

                Nor am I.

                Brown might well be a better bet to be a solid player than Betances. But don’t overlook the fact that left-handed power hitters tend to be more readily available than starting pitchers.

                In other words, if they each have – pick a number – a 40% chance to be above average at their position it’s wiser to stick with Betances. It might be wiser even if he’s a little worse bet than Brown.

            • Chop

              Cashmen is a fool if this goes through. Phils get Pence Yanks get Brown when the need is Left handed starting pitching!! If Brown was that good then why trade em??

    • steve (different one)

      Maybe the Rockies want him? That…just…happened.

      • JobaWockeeZ

        If Brown replaces Montero as the centerpiece then that’s perfectly fine by me. Offer Brown and Nova. No one seems like they are going to cave for Ubaldo.

      • Ted Nelson

        Yeah, I think that’s a real possibility. Good point.

    • bottom line

      Every year, Yanks looking desperately for pitching at deadline. And we want to trade our best right-handed power pitching prospect for an outfielder? Pass.

  • Brooklyn Ed

    If the speculation is true, perhaps Cashman might pull a AA move, flipping Brown for a high caliber SP?

    • Rick in Boston

      If the Yanks get Brown, they’d be more apt to hold onto him. They’d lock down RF for 7-10 years.

      • Ted Nelson

        I realize he’s young and has a lot of upside, but -0.6 fWAR through 88 games at 22 and 23 (roughly 1/2 a season) in the bigs does not scream “RF is locked down for 7-10 years.”

        I would be behind taking the risk on Brown… but let’s not ask like it’s not a risk. It’s a risk.

        I also think it’s a real possibility that the Rockies prefer Brown to Betances, so the Yankees are doing this to get Ubaldo.

        • Mister Delaware

          To me it screams “you’re actually just looking at his 2010 fWAR and its worth mentioning his overall number is taking a big hit from an SSS 2011 defensive negative”.

          • Ted Nelson

            To me it screams “what’s the opportunity cost of trading Betances for Brown you dumb bastard.”

            I have no interest in discussing this with you, because I think you’re a douche.

            His poor MLB performance symbolizes his uncertainty. I am not putting stock in it, merely using it to point out that he’s not certain. If you look at AAA stats as the end-all and be-all, I’ve got a Brandon Wood rookie card for sale for $4,000.

            • Mister Delaware

              You know Mike Schmidt is a painfully easy retort, right?

              • Ted Nelson

                I think Brown is a very good prospect and I would most likely trade Betances for him, I just don’t think the difference between the two is as large as some make it out to be. Nor do I think Brown fills an obvious need the way some are saying. I would be excited if the deal happens, just not penciling him in as a middle of the order bat for the Yankees quite yet. Montero-Brown would have tremendous potential to be the middle of the order going forward, though.

                I guess I’m also higher on Betances than some people here. Not without his issues, but he’s one of the better pitching prospects in the high minors across MLB.

            • Mister Delaware

              (Although your asking price on the Wood card proves its not only player valuations you don’t understand. You’re consistent!!!”)

              • Oscar Gamble’s Fro

                Unforunately, not. “I have no interest in discussing this with you, and to show you that I really mean it, I will babble on in direct response to your posts.”

                Inconsistent!!!

        • Rick in Boston

          Baseball America said his biggest challenge in the OF is in his routes to the ball. That might be correctable, it might not. I think you’re looking at way too small a sample size to get any proper read on him.

          • Ted Nelson

            I’m not saying that his early results are indicative of how he will do in MLB for his career… I think there’s a good chance he adapts. I’m saying that I don’t think he’s a HR to be a better player than Betances.

            I’m saying that his early results show he is not a HR.

            I don’t think he will even be a plus defender. He might improve, but both from what I’ve seen and read he’s not a plus defender.

  • RIP Irabu

    Speaking of prospect for prospect, why not trade montero for mike minor?

    • Rick in Boston

      Not sure if Montero could unseat either Freeman or McCann.

      • RIP Irabu

        He would be the right handed first baseman

        • Rick in Boston

          Maybe. That’s a lot to give up for a platoon situation and back-up catcher.

          • RIP Irabu

            thats their hinske for long term and i dont know if its possible, but the braves might have too many major league ready starters next year

            • Rick in Boston

              You can never have too many MLB-ready starters.

    • Ted Nelson

      Personally I would prefer Montero to Mike Minor.

  • Accent Shallow

    I’m a little out of it – why would the Phillies be willing to dump Brown to bring on Pence? Is it that they’re THAT all in?

    Seems like a trade they would really regret in a year or three.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Who knows. They’re obviously very hot for Pence at the moment.

      • nathan

        The way it will end up is that Pence goes to Phillies for next to nothing… somehow thats what all their trades look like

    • Dan in boston

      Because they are in win now mode. With that staff if they get pence who is already an all star caliber outfielder and in his prime they have a bettr shot to win now and also retain a top level OF for the future

      • Mike HC

        We are in win now mode too. If our prospects can get Pence, why don’t we prefer Pence too? Pence is 3.5 years older, but far, far better.

        • V

          Pence will earn ~$25M in 2012-2013 then be a free agent. Swisher will be cheaper (and better!) in 2012.

        • Ted Nelson

          A. It might not be Betances-Pence straight-up… Phillies could be kicking in some serious prospects on top of Betances.

          B. Different people have different opinions on different players. Yankees might be higher on Brown than Pence or Betances. Colorado might be higher on Brown than Betances or Montero. Who knows? No one can predict the future, so it’s hard to say who will be the better player a few years down the road.

  • Jamey

    Has the speculation reached the point where they almost have to deal Ubaldo now? I was not on board with the deal at Colorado’s reported demands, but considering the talk of him being upset at the CarGo contract & the other stuff about his conditioning in ST I’m starting to wonder if Cashman could swoop him up for something a little more fair considering he’s anything but a sure thing. Perhaps a Nova, Betances, plus a 2nd tier position player prospect? Not sure if that is still overpaying, I haven’t really been able to get a good feel on Betances.

    Either way I think the speculation may have gone far enough that they have to move him. He’s THEIR ace, and they have definitely dangled him out there & that doesn’t always work so good for the team/player relationship.

    • Rick in Boston

      The talk about Jimenez not liking Colorado has been debunked by at least one Rockies beat writer. It sounds like outside of Sherman, nobody has heard those stories.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Sherman’s been the only guy pumping the bad makeup thing. Everyone else says he’s a standup guy. Sherman has a knack for portraying people are jerks, especially those he doesn’t like (Soriano, Burnett, etc).

        • The Fallen Phoenix

          Yeah, Sherman likes to play armchair team psychologist. It’s also possible (although unlikely) that the Yankees are leaking that information to lower the price on Jimenez, but meh. I don’t really buy that, because no other team seems to be down on Jimenez’s makeup.

          • Mister Delaware

            I’ve heard whispers Sherman is a jerk and his colleagues don’t like him. And that his hygiene is pretty subpar.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            It’s also possible (although unlikely) that the Yankees are leaking that information

            ————————–

            That’s what Francesa was doing a couple of days ago. “I’ve heard from guys inside the organization that the Yankees are concerned about his make up”

            Good ol Mike right on time.

        • Jamey

          ah cool, I see. I don’t read Sherman so I didn’t really think about that. Makes sense though.

    • Mike HC

      They are in no rush to trade him. They can keep him for the rest of the year, and then get either the exact same or very similar haul for him they would have gotten at this deadline. Or they can wait until the deadline next year even and get an almost as good package, maybe better if he starts dominating again.

      Unless there is a permanent problem with him that only the Rockies know about, I don’t think they are going to get ripped off in a trade because they are worried about his feelings being hurt.

      • Voice of Reason

        I’ve assumed Jimenez is hurt ever since these rumors began. 27 year old pitchers are very seldom going to lose 2.5 mph off their fastball unless there’s something wrong. If they didn’t suspect he might be in trouble they wouldn’t consider dealing him no matter how much he complains. That voidable final year makes him significantly more valuable to the Rockies than he is as a trade chip, so they probably wouldn’t get equal value even if they wanted to get rid of him (which they would not). That aside, an intact Rockies team is going to be able to contend in the West for a while, it’s not like they need to start from scratch. I’d be wary.

        • V

          Word is he got a late start to working his arm in the offseason, and a couple minor spring training injuries also delayed his normal routine. Probably not coincidental that he had an awful April.

          • Voice of Reason

            Yeah, we’ve all heard that story. He’s pitched exceptionally well lately, but it’s not because his velocity his rebounded. I wouldn’t worry about his performance much but the mph drop-off still has to scare the Yankees and other teams, and more importantly the Rockies. Problem isn’t that he can’t get people out throwing 93-94 instead of 96. It’s that it might be an early sign of trouble, then his shoulder will blow up and the Yankees will get nothing out of him. If you’re gonna pay top prospect dollar for a long term player, you really can’t have reservations like that.

            • MikeD

              Agreed. I heard about the “late start” too, but when I checked out his velo charts I saw his velocity is still down over two miles from last year. That’s a concern.

  • http://yankeesfansunite.wordpress.com Mike D.

    Mike, what are your thoughts about Johnny Cueto? All speculation, but if Reds indeed become sellers, then the Yankees would definitely pursue him, right?

    • Mister Delaware

      I can’t see Cueto being the headliner of a trade, more of a kicker.

      • Mister Delaware

        (Really? Nobody enjoyed that?)

  • Mike HC

    Would Brown move Swisher to DH, Posada out of the lineup, and Montero even further away from getting big league at bats? When did outfield become a larger need than starting pitcher, unless we think Betances is not going to pan out.

    • Rick in Boston

      Montero would still be an option as a replacement for Cervelli, as well as adding an extra bench bat. It’s also getting a hold of an elite-level OF prospect, one that usually isn’t available to the Yankees.

      • bottom line

        I’m beginnoing to think Yanks making a big mistake in keeping their kids down on farm so long. Nova’s value has soared with his MLB experience. Others like Warren, Kontos, Mitchell etc should have more market value right now — but don’t because Yanks keep them down. Teams may also be questioning Montero as he languishes in Scranton. Seem to me Yanks should be building up value of their farm assets — not deflating them.
        Worst of all, we’ve had to suffer the likes of Mitre and Buddy Carlyle every time a position does open up.

        • Mister Delaware

          I think it depends on the player. The more highly rated the prospect is, the more downside there is to a major league showcase. With Nova, I agree, him showing he can atleast be a competent MLB starter bumps his value, especially for the low payroll teams. If he can be the second ranked piece in a major trade, that’s awesome for us.

        • MannyGeee

          I Said this same thing three weeks ago, and by the reactions you woulda thought I was a card carrying member for the Brett Pedroia Preschool union or something…

  • Bronx Byte

    Just get LH John Danks and LH Randy Choate.

  • Reggie C.

    Acquiring Dominic Brown for Betances would be a big win for Cashman. I’d feel for Betances a bit as he’d end up being Houston’s best prospect for 2012, in probably the weakest farm in baseball.

    • Mike HC

      I don’t see why we would be so quick to give up a power arm like Betances for a right fielder. I would trust Cashman’s judgment though, and assume if he made the deal, he didn’t think Betances was going to be a top line starter.

      • JD

        Exactly. Mike you are out of your gord, again.

    • bonestock94

      Yup, the bat is always the better guarantee. But man, it would suck if he got better command in another farm…that would be a no doubt #1 pitcher.

    • Voice of Reason

      Brown’s no guarantee. He’s done a whole lot of nothing in the majors and his defenseive stats have been atrocious, albeit in a small sample so who knows but the early returns aren’t great. He’s more of a sure thing than Betances of course, but he has nowhere to play right now and the Yankees arguably need pitching in the near future more than they need a RF. The Yankees will probably (rightfully) punt Nick Swisher after next season, but I think they’d be crazy not to pick up his option for 2012. Granderson and Gardner aren’t going anywhere either, of course.

      • Reggie C.

        If Brown isn’t then shipped off to a third team on Sunday, I imagine he’d almost immediately take at bats from posada.

  • bonestock94

    What Sherman said about Rockies wanting to trade Ubaldo:

    “#Rockies mad at Jimenez because out shape in spring, upset CarGo/Tulo got huge deals and he didn’t, has shut off pitch coach Apodaca”

    So, character concerns to say the least if it’s true. Definitely shouldn’t be priced like an ace.

    • Rick in Boston

      This has been refutewd by a Rockies beat writer.

      • bonestock94

        Oh ok

  • Just Nod If You Can Hear Me

    If the White Sox do open shop, Cashman should bring Matt Thornton up to the register to see how much Kenny Williams is charging.

  • steve (different one)

    The next 48 hrs are going to be crazy. The yanks aren’t going to trade for Brown without another domino falling

    • Simon

      If anything, I would think Cashman would acquire Brown, then maybe flip him in a a deal for Ubaldo or someone like that. Sort of like the 3-way deal with Rasmus, in a way.

      • Mike HC

        Yea, it seems like we would have one too many right fielders.

        • Simon

          Yes, regarding what you said below, I think Yanks keep Swisher and put Brown in a trade instead of Swish, (again this is all big IFs).

    • Mike HC

      Makes sense. Maybe a deal for pitcher coming next involving Swisher? Fun to speculate during trade season.

    • Reggie C.

      I imagine the Yanks wouldnt package both Montero and Brown for Ubaldo. Brown has enough power potential to front a deal and have the supplement players be Romine and Nova. You’d likely have to include a Brett Marshall or JoRam, but itd be so frigging worth it if Montero and Banuelos remained here Monday morning.

  • SDM

    I’m really confused how Brown fits a team need. He’s a great prospect, but if the yankees need a bat there’s an 800 lb gorilla in the next room that could fill that. There’s no gaping hole in the outfield either. A move like that strikes me as trading just because you can.

    • Mister Delaware

      Swisher will be 31 next year, the last year of his contract. We don’t have a logical replacement and $12+MM per year for Swish might not be the best use of resources. Its not a rightthisveryinstance need, but its a legit need.

      • Mister Delaware

        (rightthisveryinstant)

      • Mike HC

        It seems like it is easier to find a productive RF in free agency than it is a starting pitcher (although Colon and Garcia disagrees this year).

        • Mister Delaware

          Sure, but that ignores the massive probability gap between Brown and Betances.

        • Voice of Reason

          Bingo, Mister. Brown’s fairly certain to be occupying a spot in the Yankee lineup basically for free, which will free up more money to throw at the legit starters on the market in the next couple of years. Betances might have a high ceiling, but the most realistic scenario is that he’ll contribute as a reliever or not at all.

          Not that there’s any real chance of this trade happening.

      • SDM

        If its not a need right now its not a need. Especially when the guy is still in his physical prime. Unless they use Brown as bait to land a whale of a starting pitcher, it still serves little purpose in my opinion.

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Well Swish has been productive and if someone is willing to offer him a Werth like contract they can just let him go.

  • Dicka24

    So a 3 team deal would look something like this:

    Philly gets Pence

    Yanks get Brown

    Houston gets Betances and Cosart

    Obviously there might be a filler name going one way or another to sweeten the deal if need be, but these would be the major parts. I think if I’m the Yankees I have to try to make this happen. While Betances has some serious upside, pitching is where the Yankees are somewhat deep. They lack LH hitting positional prospects with high ceilings. It really makes so much sense that I’m confident it won’t happen. Deals that make sense usually don’t.

    If this happened the Yanks could either flip Swisher now (maybe the Braves for Aroldys V….doh!) or keep him and DH him for the stretch/playoffs. Worst case he plays the field if Brown struggles. Brown is worth trading Betances for is my point. Cheap, LH, athletic, controlable, and young. I would worry about having an all LH outfield though. Gardner, Grandy, and Brown. Montero from the right moving forward would help with that. Arod, Montero, Jeter, Martin from the right, Cano, Brown, Grandy, Gardner from the left, with Text from both sides in 2012. That does work.

    • Mike HC

      I don’t see the Yanks being that deep at starter beyond this year. Garcia, Colon are both free agents, and Hughes and Nova are both unproven (which is an understatement really). The leaves CC (even he has an opt out), unreliable AJ, and then Banuelos and Betances. There is not that much depth.

      • Ted Nelson

        For some reason people seem to be judging the minors as independent from the major league team: Yankees need a LHH prospect regardless of all the lefty mashers in their line-up, and they don’t need pitching because they have a good AAA rotation… I think value trumps need 99% of the time or so… but I also fail to see why they need a LHH prospect. Would be great to have one… but I don’t see it as a need at all.

  • JobaWockeeZ

    http://twitter.com/#!/Joelsher.....3594378241

    Yankees don’t view Ubaldo as an ace and thus not worth Betances and Montero. Interesting but I can’t fault them.

  • Betty Humpter

    The Yankees have engaged in three way talks involving Philly and the Rockies.

    Yankees get: Jimenez and Dominic Brown

    Philly gets: Nick Swisher and Dellin Betances

    Colorado gets: Montero, Cozart, and Nova

    ok, kidding….but would you do it?

    • Wooderson

      no!!!!!! swish :(

    • JobaWockeeZ

      Lol no. Swisher is one of the few Yankees with a .370 OBP. His power is a little down but Swish has to stay for 2011.

    • Dicka24

      So Montero, Betances, Swisher, and Nova for Jimenez & Brown.

      Hmmm….

      • JobaWockeeZ

        If you do that you’re banking that Ubaldo is an ace for the next 2-3 years at least. The only ace to have a walk percentage as high as Ubaldo’s in the past 15 years is Clayton Kershaw. Ubaldo may join him but it’s still a pretty sizable risk even if we ignore his league change.

        • JobaWockeeZ

          But that’s dependent on how you view an ace. He’s a 3.50-3.60 xFIP guy, 3.90 SIERA guy and a 4.00 tERA guy. He isn’t a huge innings eater either averaging 6 and one thirds innings per start. Yeah it has a lot of value but I don’t see it as Montero, Betances and Nova level.

    • steve (different one)

      I think so

    • The Fallen Phoenix

      No. If you’re going to add Jimenez, you don’t want it to be a lateral move (and it would be, since Swisher to Brown is a downgrade this year). I can’t imagine Colorado accepts Montero, Cozart, and Nova for Jimenez anyway – Colorado would want Betances coming back to them.

      Wouldn’t happen.

  • Betty Humpter

    Fills hole for everyone…maybe its just crazy enough.

  • Cy Pettitte

    “Manuel: “i think dom brown can be more relaxed in triple-a.” #phillies”

    http://twitter.com/#!/inthephi.....0423810048

    maybe they really are getting serious about moving him

  • bottom line

    No way Yanks should trade both Montero and Betances in deal for Jiminez. Yanks have depth in system and plenty of attractive players beyond these two blue chips. I’d trade just one. And really, I don’t understand the sudden willingness to give up on Betances.

    • Ted Nelson

      The “bottom line” is that trading Betances for an ace or top 10-type prospect is not “giving up on him…” I don’t think it’s as much of a slam dunk as others, but Dominic Brown is not giving Betances away.

      • bottom line

        Throwing him into package with Montero amounts to giving up on him. He’s a stud so he should not be add-in with another stud to get a guy who Rockies are mysteriously peddling.
        I might package Betances with Nova, but not with Montero.

        • Ted Nelson

          Take two minutes to look back at deals for pitchers of Ubaldo’s caliber and you will find that almost none of them have been dealt for one stud prospect alone. Honestly name a 27 year old who has been a top 10 SP for 3.5 seasons and signed dirt cheap who was trade for one guy…

          Beckett for Hanley AND Anibal
          Colon for Lee AND Sizemore AND Phillips
          RJ for Freddy Garcia AND Carlos Guillen AND Halama
          Etc, etc, etc

          Betances was not even ranked in BA’s top 100 in 2008, 2009, or 2010… let’s not act like the Yankees are (potentially) selling low on him.

          • botom line

            Jiminez not in class of Colon, Lee or even Beckett. And Anibal Sanchez had some arm issues so his stock was falling. Betances stock has been rising — now Top 35 prospect. And I have a feeling Montreal fans did not feel too good about trading Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore and Brandon Phillips for just a bit of vintage Colon.

            • Ted Nelson

              A. Ubaldo has been a top 10 pitcher for 3.5 years and is 27… he’s in a pretty high class.

              B. Rockies don’t have to trade him. He’s dirt cheap for a couple of more years. Trade value is not the same as a motivated seller who has to trade a guy or lose him for draft picks.

              You are the only person I have seen suggest the Yankees are giving up on Betances. I have literally seen no one else say this. I disagree with you and I don’t see anyone else agreeing with you, but you’re entitled to your interpretation of the situation. If trade rumors… rumors… that they might deal him for a great player is giving him away in your estimation… ok.

  • ADam

    So the Hunter Pence deal would be Pence -> Philly, Delin -> Houston, Brown -> Yanks

    If your the yanks you gotta do that

    • JobaWockeeZ

      If that’s it then of course.

    • CP

      There would probably be lesser prospects/money involved too. I don’t think that would change my opinion of the deal.

    • Mister Delaware

      Pretty sure there would be atleast one more major prospect headed from Philadelphia to Houston in that scenario.

  • Gonzo

    This is crazy. Between this and the debt ceiling, I might not sleep this weekend.

    Dom Brown and Montero in the middle of the line up for years to come does sound awesome.

  • Alfredo

    i here the braves are getting disappointed with Jayson Heyward, do you think since they want an outfielder we can give then swisher for Heyward and maybe mertin because McCan is injured?

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Lol funny stuff

    • Gonzo

      Throw in Carmen Angelini and presto!

      • JMK

        Never!

  • Tim

    Heres one for you.

    NYY sends Montero and Betances to Houston for Pence. They than flip Pence to ATL for Jair Jurrjens.
    NYY gets a great, young (25 yrs old) pitcher who is still in his arbitration years. Houston gets a young power hitter and a young starter. Atlanta gets the young, power hitting outfielder they crave. Atlanta also has a lot of young pitchers and need the offense. Thoughts??

    • FIPster Doofus

      No thanks.

    • pat

      No freaking way.

    • Brian S.

      Hell no, Jurrjens is luckier than hell.

    • MikeD

      I’ll take Ubaldo before Jar Jar.

  • Mark D.

    The point people are failing to understand is that despite the upside of Dellin Betances, he is still in AA at the age 23. He has control issues and does not have a good bill of health or he would have had at least a shot at the majors by now. No one is denying his upside, but despite that upside it is not guaranteed that he figures it out and avoids getting injured reaching his potential.

    The scenario that is being brought up of swapping Dellin Betances for Domonic Brown is an interesting dilemma. Brown is about half a year older than Betances but is already in the majors and who also has tremendous upside. Being a left-handed hitter especially for Yankee Stadium is going to help his stats, but being a hitter allows for him to contribute more than a pitcher. Especially now when offense is down across the board, Domonic Brown should have more value.

    Betances has the talent to be a perennial talent, but he still is showing durability issues, throughout his career along with his control issues that could hamper is overall production as a big leaguer. I would do the trade from the Yankees perspective, because with the aging offense, adding a major league ready bat for a player, that hasn’t pitched in AAA yet in his career. Doing this trade would not deplete our farm system, except it would help compensate for the lack of power hitters in the Yankees farm system at a position where the Yankees are thin.

  • Joe B.

    I have to wonder, though – why are the Phillies the ones scouting Betances if he’s going to be flipped to Houston? Shouldn’t Houston be the team scouting him if that’s where he’s going to eventually end up?

    I don’t think that the Pence/Brown/Betances situation is what’s in play here… I sense something different.

  • Raul

    Mike, I was wondering why the Yankees would even trade for Domonic Brown in the first place because, as you posted before, the Yankees have one of the best, if not the best, outfields in baseball. The only way I would condone this type of trade would be if the Rockies value Brown more than Betances. Do you agree? Maybe Domonic Brown/Ivan Nova/Andrew Brackman? Or Brown/Montero/Brackman? Not sure which combinations would work, but do you think this could be enough to net Ubaldo? Maybe less would be needed?

  • JobaWockeeZ

    http://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rose.....7313516544

    Yankees done calling for Ubaldo today but have made calls for Kuroda.

    • CP

      Yankees done calling for Ubaldo today

      He said they haven’t called yet. That doesn’t mean they’re done – either for the day or before the deadline.

  • Nolan

    What about moving betances for dom brown and then moving dom brown to the white sox (with nova) for Danks ?

    • Reggie C.

      Heh. You and Joe P. On the Danks train.

      That probably gets the Rox to step away from their Banuelos demand and forces them to take Brown plus lesser pieces. If not, I thinly Ken Williams would be hard pressed to find a better prospect.

  • Phil

    People complain about Brown ‘struggling’ in the majors, but it beats struggling in AA at about the same age.

    • Will in NJ

      Thank you. I’m about as big a fan of Betances out there, but Brown is a surer bet to succeed, a consensus better prospect, and would offer cheap production at RF for a good amount of years. And for those saying he’s been atrocious on defense, how about give him a full year’s worth of a sample size before we jump to any conclusions.

      • Ted Nelson

        A. I don’t think a single person on this thread has said that Betances is a surer bet. It’s a matter of degree: how much less sure.

        B. Dominic Brown did not start playing baseball one year ago… Guy has been in Phill’s system since 2006 and got to AA in 2009.

        • Will in NJ

          Agree to disagree on the surer bet issue. Betances and Brown are roughly the same age (23 and 24), and were in fact both drafted in 2006, so they’ve basically been in the minors for the same number of years. Betances’ injury track record is worse than Brown’s, and Betances is currently struggling in AA with his walk rate (and besides last year, his walk rate has always been a huge problem). While Betances has shown his struggles in AA, Brown has crushed minor league pitching at every level, except for rookie-ball in 06. I’d say Brown’s minor league track record leads to him being a much surer bet than Betances. And if you have data/scouting reports saying that Brown has struggled on defense in the minors, I would very much like to see them.

      • nycsportzfan

        I totally agree.. One young kid is in the Majors all ready, getting some of his growing pains outta the way with another team, which again is a benefit for us, and the other is kinda toiling a bit in Double A and has alot of moving parts to boot, and you still have to let em get through all his growing pains on the ML level still, at least brown is getting some of that outta the way with the phillies..;. Its a no brainer, it truly is..

  • Paul D

    “left handed impact bat they lack”? i dont get it. was that a typo? not against d. brown but grandy is a pretty impactful left handed bat as is tex from the left side

    • marechal

      There is also this guy named after Jackie Robinson.

    • Tom Zig

      he meant in the minors

  • KenC

    I like how we go from talking about Ubaldo to Brown XD

  • nycsportzfan

    U people who don’t think Brown For Betances would of been great for the yanks are nuts! Betances is doing about slightly above AVG in Double A and has a ton of moving parts, and we have a heap of pitching prospects, some big upside young kids, big upside close kids, some sturdy solid pitcher, and relievers.. The yanks have zero outside of heathcott legit OF prospects anywhere near the big show… Dominic brown projects as a “HITTER” which is what we need more then anything.. A guy who can hit the ball on a line, and isn’t just a streaky power hitter, nor a aging veteran… The chances BROWN does what we think he can helps us more then what we think Betances can simply because there are more pitchers that we have then OF’ers… Betances is the type of prospect that in 2yrs, u wonder why hes still having trouble putting together a string of really good starts…. Brown will probably be hitting 300 25 104 type stuff… Its actually frustrating that some woulden’t jump on that deal..