Fan Confidence Poll: January 2nd, 2012

The First Open Thread of 2012
Splitting Burnett

2011 Record: 97-65 (855 RS, 657 RA, 102-60 pythag. record), won AL East, lost to Tigers in ALDS

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Please take a second to answer the poll below and give us an idea of how confident you are in the team. You can view the interactive Fan Confidence Graph anytime via the nav bar above, or by clicking here. Thanks in advance for voting.

Given the team's current roster construction, farm system, management, etc., how confident are you in the Yankees' overall future?
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The First Open Thread of 2012
Splitting Burnett
  • Bryan G

    I find the discipline they’re showing to be refreshing and I remain confident that if the right move is out there, Cashman will make it.

    • Bob Stone

      I feel the same way. So I am at 9 again.

    • Mike HC

      I agree that the discipline is a very good sign. I’m at an 8. On the flip side, it is a negative that there hasn’t been a good move out there to make to get another stud starting pitcher. Maybe Hamels will be the guy next off season. Hopefully.

      • Ted Nelson

        Best move may prove to be holing onto the prospects.

        • CMP

          Best move may also be trading some of them for a front end starter too.

  • TCMiller30

    Cepedes will bump my pick from an 8 to a 9! It’s not even so much that I think he’ll be great, but because it’d be exciting to have a new young outfielder.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      Please don’t stop at Cespedes, add Jorge Soler and Armando Rivero to your wishlist.

      • TCMiller30

        I would love signing Soler as well. Everything I’ve heard about Rivero seems like a BP arm. I wouldn’t mind that at all, but not as exciting as the other two in my mind.

        • MannyGeee

          Shortening the game to 4 innings!!!

      • CJ

        I read the A’s are interested in soler, he can’t be that expensive.

  • Jose M. Vazquez..

    I am at 8 because we are still not where we should be. I will explain. It seems to me that we are unlikely to find the pitcher we are looking for and at the right price. Thus, I repeat my sentiment that Boone Logan be stretched out during ST and turned into a starter. We coul replace him with one of the LOOGYs that we signed in the offseason. If that does not work, we have Noesi to step in at any moment. Or the latter can replace any one in the rotation that fails or is injured.

    • Bavarian Yankee

      not sure if you’re serious about this but why do you want to make Logan a starter when we have a bunch of talented starters in AAA? Last time Logan started a game was in 2004 in the rookie league and Logan simply hasn’t the secondary pitches to be a decent starter.

      • MannyGeee

        barely has the primary pitches to be a passable LOOGY.

    • TCMiller30

      There are plenty of guys in our farm I’d put in the rotation over a Boone Logan experiment.

    • Cory Wade’s emergence

      Not being confrontational at all, curious why you think he would make a good starter?

      • Jose M. Vazquez..

        It’s that he is a lefty,simply as that. We need another lefty in the rotation. He throws hard enough and has fir control. Furthermore, lefties have been successful for the most part in YS. Of course, I’d prefer ManBan but he is not ready just yet.

        • Jose M. Vazquez..

          I don’t even want to compare Logan with lefties of the past, it’s that when we won it all we had a pair of good lefties in the rotation: Lopat,Ford, Byrne in the 50s, Guidry, Gullet in the 70s, Pettitte and Key and later Pettitte an Wells in the 90s. The only time in recent memory we won it all without two lefties in the rotation was 2009. We had only CC as you know.

          • Jon in CUO

            Andy P. was still around in 2009

            • Jose M. Vazquez..

              Sorry, I forgot he came back. I also did not mention the 60s because I was out of the country for mos of the decade and have no memories of it.

              • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

                I have my own….personal reasons for not remembering the 60’s!

                • Paul VuvuZuvella

                  I thought you never inhaled.

        • Paul VuvuZuvella

          I think you are correct that the Yanks could use another lefty SP but I don’t think Boone is the answer. Plenty aren’t even sure he is the answer as LOOGY. I’m ok with him as LOOGY.

        • MannyGeee

          I’m a lefty that will get shellacked in the rotation too, sign me!

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      LOL. Insane. The idea won’t even be considered.

      • Jose M. Vazquez..

        just my opinion. I know it is very unlikely to be considered.

  • bonestock94

    7, we need more pitching

  • Ethan

    I’m at 7. I was reading on another Yankees blog that Banuelos and Betances project to be #3 starters. So why hold on to them and pass up a possible ace?

    • CJ

      They are available for a “possible ace” the debate is over whether they should be available for a #2-3 type.

      • Ethan

        I’d consider Latos an ace. Maybe not Gonzalez or Danks but Latos definitely has the makings of an ace.

        • CJ

          Im not high on Latos “makings of an ace” type pitcher. Too Kevin brown Jeff weaver like.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            Based on what?

            • CJ

              Mostly hunch, willing to go out on a limb knowing I could be wrong. He has petco in his favor and some makeup issues. Generally speaking I’m not high on major leaguers who could or should be better based on stuff or peripherals.

              • CJ

                Which only means I don’t like him as an ace-type or worth trading Montero.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                So you’re guessing then.

                Latos has no significant home/road split in his career, so the point about Petco doesn’t apply to him like it does most pitchers:

                http://www.baseball-reference......;t=p#hmvis

                The makeup concerns are real, I’ll give you that, but his career ERA and his peripherals are almost identical. He’s been just as good as expected, no better or worse.

                • CJ

                  Guessing or projecting, nobody knows for sure. I think you said it, he’s as good as expected, I don’t expect him to improve. AL East or a bad mood could be enough to start a decline

                • CJ

                  Latos is on a Weaver scale. Those who like him compare him to Jared those who don’t see Jeff.

    • MannyGeee

      instead of believing the hype, go take a look at what other people projected other starters on our team… namely Cano, Gardner & Nova. and then while you’re on that page go see where the ‘world’ projected Tabata and Austin Jackson.

      so nerds with MacBooks are fun and all, but take a step back and lets get some perspective.

      • Ethan

        I hardly think you can evaluate Nova or Jackson yet. One good, or bad season at the start of a career really doesn’t mean a whole lot. I do not expect Nova to have a repeat of last year, just as I didn’t think Hughes would have a season like 2010 last year.

        Cano was an international free agent signing and while Gardner has been good, I wouldn’t consider him to be an elite left or center fielder.

        • G

          At 5.1 Gardner was worth as much fWAR as Pujols last year, and was worth 6.1 in 2010.

          I’m going to go with calling him elite.

  • Virgil Earp

    What the hell is Cashman doing? He has a chance to get Beltran and he chooses Andruw Jones intead? With Beltran we could have shipped Swisher out of town so he can’t hurt us in the playoffs anymore. Garza would be a tremendous addition but I have no confidence in the front office to get the trade done. Nolan Ryan will probably just swoop in and best Cashman yet again.

    • TCMiller30

      And then when Beltran’s knee goes out we can replace him in left with Justin Maxwell! That’d be awesome!

    • Dave203

      Really? What crack did you smoke on New Years?

      There was never a choice of Jones over Beltran. Jones is a 4th OF and Beltran would have wanted to start. Signing Beltran made no sense unless you can flip Swisher for something useful in return. Since there was little to no evidence this was occurring, why would they take that risk. Also, Beltran is 34 (turning 35 this season) and missed more than 50% of the 2009 and 2010 seasons with injuries. He does well for 140 games in 2011 and suddenly he is your Jesus. Say what you want about Swisher in the postseason (that argument is old and washed up), but Swisher has been consistent from year to year now and doesn’t get hurt. That’s a lot to say these days.

      For Garza, if the trade request isn’t ridiculous, I think it can get done. Sure, any team and “swoop in” and overpay, but Garza isn’t an improvement enough to dump half the farm on. IMO, they’ll trade anything outside of Montero and Banuelos for him.

      Please, just stop whining. It sounds so pathetic and isn’t reflective of a Yankee fan.

      • Hardy

        The linked report said that Beltran was willing to sign with the Yankees, without mentioning that that was conditional on starting (in which case the Yankees would have had to trade a starting OF). So it seems that the Yankees indeed chose Jones over Beltran.

        • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

          Sarcasm right?

          • Dave203

            One can only hope, unless RAB picked up some new geniuses this year.

            • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

              Haha, you never know. In this thread alone you’ve got one guy that wants to move Logan to the rotation and another that’s upset about not bringing in Beltran.

          • Hardy

            No sarcasm. Heyman’s full tweet was “hear beltran offered to go to #yankees for the deal he got w/ cards ($26M, 2 yrs). but like 7 yrs ago, they declined.”

            To me that sounds like he was willing to sign without playing time guarantees while the post I replied to said “Beltran would have wanted to start”. And to me that means the Yankees chose Jones over Beltran.

            But if I missed something, feel free to enlighten me.

        • MannyGeee

          2/26 for a 4OF is awful steep when considering the need to put that money towards a pitcher if one comes along… and $13M per season is without a doubt ‘starter money’

          same ppl will bitch if someone comes availible for the rotation and the Yankees do not pull the trigger because Cashman was stupid enough to spend $13M on a 4OF.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        The grass is always greener on the other side, man.

        • Dave203

          I’ve come to the conclusion that some people just like to see change and hope for better. He’s probably the same person arguing to trade Tex and sign Fielder. Next year, it will be trade CC and sign Hammels.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/Clay_Bellinger Clay Bellinger

      You’re a complete idiot.

      • Rainbow Connection

        Name-calling always shows superior intellect.

        • Dave203

          On the contrary, you’re ever-so-informative posts do?

  • Hardy

    7. It seems that priority #1 is shifting from winning on the field to making money. That does not bode well for the future.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      “Winning on the field” and “making money” are not mutually exclusive.

      • Andy in Sunny Daytona

        If the Steinbrenners want to cut payroll by 10% for one year, so they can save $60M and put the Yankees in a stronger position going forward, then I have zero problem with that.

        • dan gen

          so you do not care if they lose this year.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            They won’t lose this year because they lack one pitcher.

            • MannyGeee

              right, they’ll lose because they didnt sign Beltran for teh bench!!!11!

            • Hardy

              That’s a bold statement.

              Consider the following thought experiment:

              Take the best pitcher for 2012 (in your opinion) who was available.
              Take the worst pitcher for 2012 (in your opinion) who is projected for the Yankees’ rotation.
              Calculate the expected difference in wins (real wins, not pitcher wins).
              Are you sure they won’t lose a playoff spot by a margin that is lower than (or equal to) this number?

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                Using the Fan Projections at FanGraphs…

                C.J. Wilson in 2012: 4.2 WAR
                A.J. Burnett in 2012: 1.3 WAR
                Phil Hughes in 2012: 1.9 WAR
                Freddy Garcia in 2012 = 1.0 WAR

                4.2 – 1.0 = 3.2 wins

                Am I confident the Yankees won’t “lose” a playoff spot by three games next year? Yes, I am. Doesn’t mean it can’t happen of course, but I doubt it will since no one in the division has improved.

                • Hardy

                  Using the numbers from rlyw, the Yankees miss the playoffs 24% of 100,000 simulated seasons. I suspect quite a lot of these seasons they finish within 3 games of the playoffs.

                  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                    So there’s less than a 1-in-4 chance they’ll miss the playoffs three or fewer games? I’ll gladly take those odds.

                    • Hardy

                      So basically you are glad to (additionally) miss the playoffs every five years for $10M-$25M extra annual profit for the Steinbrenners?

                    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

                      That’s not what that means at all.

                    • Hardy

                      You gladly take “a 1-in-4 chance they’ll miss the playoffs” because they signed Garcia instead of Wilson.
                      You do not advocate or argue for them to spend this money for something that will yield more success on the field.

                      Than what else does your position mean?

            • dan gen

              they lack more than one arm…………..

      • Hardy

        That is why I expect the Yankees to be a large payroll team going forward, but the days of really outspending the other teams seem to be over.

        The changes from the new CBA (second WC team, draft changes) leave the MLB payroll as the only way for the Yankees to truly dominate like they did in the last decade. And they do not seem to be willing to use this opportunity, therefrore I have downgraded my confidence ratin quite a bit from 9 to 7 and I am leaning towards a further downgrade to 6.

        (My rating is the answer to the question “How many playoff appearences do I expect for the next decade?”)

    • Mike HC

      George is dead. I would say his sons have been pretty good and could have been a lot worse. They will never be George Steinbrenner, but they seem to be pretty smart about running the team, although slightly more thrifty.

      A true disaster would have been if they cleaned out our farm system for Ubaldo and/or another overpriced starter, leaving our future in doubt, especially with the cba curtailing our ability to get young talent. All in all, the Steinbrenner kids played things pretty well the past couple of years.

      • MannyGeee

        god rest his soul, but a true disaster for any son is to not learn from his fathers mistakes.

        Hal & Hank are relying heavily on their ‘Baseball People’ to guide them. George wasn’t the type.

        • Hardy

          I doubt that their ‘Baseball People’ said “Freddy Garcia is the best pitcher available for the rotation!”

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            So ownership forced the signing?

            • Hardy

              I think their ‘Money People’ guided them by saying something like “Wilson is the better pitcher but we will make more profit by signing Garcia.”

              And yes, I think ownership in one way or other (like giving him a budget) made Cashman sign a worse but cheaper starter.

              • G

                I’m pretty sure it went something like this:

                We already extended one of the 5 best pitchers in baseball to keep everything together. We’ve got huge contracts to sign in a couple years in Cano and Granderson, who just happen to be our two best offensive players. If payroll is over $189 million in 2014, we get hit hard by the luxury tax. If we are under $189MM just for that year, the tax is more than halved. We can’t sign anyone to overpriced contracts or else Cano and Granderson’s contracts will push us well over $200 MM, and a 50% tax on $210 MM is a hell of a lot worse than 15% on $189 MM.

      • Rainbow Connection

        But George wasn’t smart.

  • TomH

    If this is what’s happening, it’s every bit as serious as you imply. It would be a throwback to the CBS era. It would be reminiscent of what the Giants used to do when Col. Jake upstaged them by plowing dough back into the team. Etc.

    However, it’s still too soon to know whether this is what is happening. We need to watch for a year, see what moves, of a serious nature, the Yanks might make–or choose not to make–during the 2011 season. And watch to see what moves they’ve made–or not made–during the off-season, this time next year.

  • CJ

    If the pitching crumbles and the yanks fail to make the playoffs because of Boston Tampa Texas angels, it will NOT be Girardi’s fault!

    • MannyGeee

      #BlameJavy

  • dan gen

    amen!!!!!

  • Paul VuvuZuvella

    I dropped from 8 to 7 last poll over Yu. Wanted Yu. Needed Yu. Deep down I knew, there ain’t know way we were ever going to get Yu, but I guess I was holding out hope and like they say…2 outta 3 ain’t bad. Anyway, Alex getting this procedure will bump me up fractionally to a 7.25. I believe he will indeed maintain strong offensive production, and stay on the field, longer than most (but not to justify the ridiculous contract). Plus I’m in the same camp as those who believe 2012 may offer some near-in challenges but the patience being displayed and the continued stocking and development happening on the farm bodes well for the team in 2013 and beyond – unless the Mayans were right and 2012 is the last Baseball season.

    Is Alex’s procedure similar to what Bartolo had done ?

    • MannyGeee

      similar theory (i have read), but Bartolo used stem cells and A Rod is getting platelets. and Platelets are OKd by the league, stem cells are still in question.

    • Hikker

      The Mayan’s did not now about baseball or else they would have finsihed their calender..

    • TomH

      Anyway, Alex getting this procedure will bump me up fractionally to a 7.25.

      At first I was encouraged by this news, but then my temperamental pessimism (“The worst is always possible”) took over and made me wonder whether, in the course of his off-season workouts, Alex was feeling some pain in shoulder or knee.

      • Paul VuvuZuvella

        I hear you. At his age, pain is the new normal when you’re a professional athlete.

  • Jesse

    I’m right at the good ole number 8 spot on the Confidence scale like I’ve been for really a long time now.

  • CJ

    Confidence in the yanks is relative to the confidence of Boston Tampa Texas and angels.

  • David, Jr.

    I am at 8 for this year.

    Five playoff spots. Six contenders: Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Rangers, Angels, Tigers.

    Given the above, why would the Yankees give up prospects in any deal that is not favorable?

    • Hardy

      Because there are only four playoff spots.

      • G

        Not if they implement the 2nd Wild Card this year, as they’re still mulling over.

        • Hardy

          But then each wild card will represent only half a playoff spot unless you consider the loser of the wild card game a real playoff participant.