Open Thread: Hip Hip


As I said earlier, Joe Posada’s retirement press conference was nothing but first class today. The Yankees really did a wonderful job. The video above if Jorge’s statement on his retirement, but that was just a small part of the day. You can see basically the entire event — albeit broken up into small clips — at the YES Network’s site. Here’s the video archive.

* * *

Here is tonight’s open thread. The Knicks, Rangers, Islanders, and Devils are all playing tonight, but Time Warner customers like myself are still without MSG. Anyway, talk about whatever you want here. Except politics, that always gets messy.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Karl Krawfid says:

    Just watched this on YES. Sad to see him go.

    But Damn CC got skinny.

  2. CJ says:

    Is this the first time Yankees press conference backdrop had sponsorship? Toyota. I know Boston had the Dunkin donuts. I wonder how much sponsors pay for that? Enough for a dh better than Jonny Gomes $1.1 million ?

  3. Matt DiBari says:

    I’m so glad he didn’t pull a Dewey Evans.

    I’ll be there when they retire his number.

  4. Tomm says:

    No way Posada is a Hall of Famer. He is among the worst defensive catchers ever in terms of rapport with pitchers, passed balls and letting wild pitches go through his legs.

    • Thomas Cassidy says:

      You’re a fucking moron.

      • Tomm says:

        Nice retort. Check the stats. I believe Posada is at the very top of the list in terms of WP/PB. And you only have to have watched a few games to notice the balls going to the backstop. Why do you think all those pitchers hated pitching to him? It’s because they had to throw fastballs — he couldn’t really catch the curve.

        • Thomas Cassidy says:

          Posada is a Hall of Famer. End of story. He’s one of the best catchers ever. So he couldn’t play gold glove defense?

          By that logic, what if Bonds never took steroids and finished with those same career numbers, but couldn’t play defense? He’s not a Hall of Famer?

          • MannyGeee says:

            Bonds is not a HOFer with those numbers, no fcking way. But for a different reason. Those numbers are not impressive for a RF.

            But for a catcher, what Posada has done should you serious consideration for the Hall.

          • Tomm says:

            If you watch Martin, he’s obviously a much better catcher than Posada ever was. This is why former (good) catcher Girardi plays him. And why Girardi didn’t want to play Posada.

        • RetroRob says:

          Really? The stats don’t back that up. He also has plenty of pitchers who loved throwing to him, including Andy Pettitte who said Posada was his favorite. Headcase AJ Burnett didn’t seem to like throwing to him, although no one seems to like catching Burnett. Russell Martin? With him catching Burnett, he led the league in WP’s. He had 17 and 16 in 2009 and 2010 with Posada and then Cervelli catching him. With Martin, it exploded to 25. Just sayin’…

      • Plank says:

        Way to stimulate healthy dialogue. I think it’s in keeping with your general tenor around here.

        • Tomm says:

          Plank you very much. Your retort was brilliant.

          Why not stick to the facts instead of ad hominem remarks? I guess because you can’t stick to the facts. Jorgie was your favorite, eh? You have his baseball card? How sweet.

          Still, none of you people could really rebut the statements I made. Any pitcher with some control problems would have hated to throw to Posada. Pettite? The guy had great control and is extremely polite. Unlike you.

      • Bonezzz says:

        Hits The “Likes Comment” About Tomm being a Moron

  5. Gonzo says:

    Anyone else hear the Dwight Howard for Amare + Chandler rumors? The idea being to get Deron Williams at some point too. Crazy.

    Imagine Amare going from King of NY basketball to playing for the Magic in one year. Wow.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      It’s a rumor which Orlando won’t accept. Amare’s knee are scaring everyone and Chandler is way overpaid. And lol Deron Williams. Good luck putting Dwight, Deron and Melo all under the cap.

      • Gonzo says:

        Sooooo, I’ll put you in the I don’t believe it camp. Check.

      • Marcus says:

        Two other things I heard:

        1. Chandler can’t be traded until March 1, so plenty of time for these rumors to fizzle out.

        2. Howard did not indicate an interest in playing for New York when all the other trade rumors were happening before the season started, so there doesn’t seem to be interest on his end to coming to NY.

    • BK2ATL says:

      Not gonna happen. NY rumor mill.

      Also heard Carmelo Anthony to Nets for Deron Williams.

      And…get this…Dwight Howard & Ryan Anderson to LA Clippers for Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan….

      Just not gonna happen.

  6. Nathan says:

    I tried watching as much as I could before having to go to work (I’m on the west coast). Very nice event by the Yankees, cool to see Jeter & Mo there. Too bad Andy wasn’t there to complete the Core Four.

    I wonder what Jeter & Mo’s nickname will be now?

  7. Craig says:

    The Mets have made it known Duda would be available for the right price, and Hughes would benefit from a larger ballpark.
    Hughes and CoJo for Duda?
    Duda could be this year’s DH, then the RFer next year, freeing up some of the $ that would go to Swisher. Garcia is the 5th starter, while Burnett goes wherever, bullpen or the Newark Bears, I have no idea.

    Duda would pop some in Yankee Stadium, and the team manages to get younger, just a crazy thought.

    Sucks, I know.

    • CJ says:

      How about betances (true hometown) and Romine (mets supposedly called interested in him) for duda

      • Mike Axisa says:

        That’s not all that far off from what they gave up for Pineda.

        • CJ says:

          I didn’t see it that way but now that you mention it I see the comparison. I guess I see montero as much closer to a sure thing than betances.

        • CJ says:

          So mike I take that’s too much for Duda? What kind of hitter do you think they could get for a betances romine package?

          • vin says:

            Not Mike, but that’s not a bad deal for the Yanks. It all depends on what the Mets are looking for, would a AAA lotto ticket and a projectable everyday catcher work for them? Looks like Duda can be a Swisher-type player. I doubt the Mets would be in a hurry to move someone like him.

            • RetroRob says:

              I don’t know how Duda rates. He hit okay last year, but not sure where scouts see him.

              I don’t see the Yankees moving Romine right now. They just traded Montero, Martin has only a one-year contract, and Sanchez and Murphy are too far off, and totally unknown as catchers. Romine’s chances of being moved went down dramatically with Montero’s trade.

    • Steve S. says:

      AJ+10M(next year) for Travis Hafner. Look up his Righty splits from the past 3 years.


      .870 OPS past 3 years, and .886 last year. People seem to think he’s shot, but not facing Right handers.

      • Mike Axisa says:

        And why exactly would the Indians do this?

        • CJ says:

          Exactly. These bad contract swaps for AJ are a mess. The other teams want a significant net savings. The mist popular is Carlos Lee for AJ. Astros can save 5 easy by paying 13 of trade.

        • Steve S. says:

          Because it makes them a better team. They have nothing in terms of pitching depth at AAA and Hafner can’t hit Lefties. Lowe and Slowey are anything but sure bets, another arm would help Antonetti sleep at night. Especially if he doesn’t think Hagadone is ready.

          Lets say the Yanks kick in 5M this year and 5M next year. Hafner is owed virtually the same money AJ is (13M+2.75 buyout) so the contracts are a wash. They make AJ their #5, stick Slowey in the pen for depth, and go sign Damon for 5M.


          They’re a better team, same payroll this year.

          • CJ says:

            They don’t want a salary wash they want a net savings as in Pronk + 10 million for a B prospect. Cleveland makes than deal in a second.

          • Plank says:

            Hafner makes less money than AJ.

            In your scenario, you aren’t counting the extra year of a bad contract (2013 AJ) in your equation.

            • Steve S. says:

              Sorry, if you read what I posted or looked it up in Cots you’d see that Pronk has a 2.75 buyout. For all practical purposes that means he makes 15.75 this year. Both are overpaid considering their production. Fangraphs has both players worth the same 6M last year. And I did consider the 2013 salary by picking up the 10M.

              Here’s the deal in plain English. We’ll swap players and overpay both this year, I’ll pick up your loss for next year.

              • Mike Axisa says:

                So the Yankees get Cleveland’s second or third best hitter while the Indians get the second worst starting pitcher in baseball over the last two seasons, and a few million dollars in 2013 is supposed to make up the difference?

                • Steve S. says:

                  Yep. Clearing out that DH spot and replacing Pronk with someone who gives them similar production (say Damon) but can also be their 4th OF effectively opens up a roster spot. That allows them to carry an extra arm in the pen or on the bench. Given how weak their rotation and farm system is with pitching, the extra arm makes the most sense, and again makes them better this year.


                  Look at their BA top 10. They really have nothing in their farm that projects as solid rotation option. Almost all look like relievers according to BA. They need depth, badly.

                  • Mike Axisa says:

                    Your premise seems to be “they need pitching depth, can sign Damon, and Lowe will by gone by July.”

                    That’s an awful lot of assumptions.

                    • Steve S. says:

                      Maybe, but do you have any faith in Lowe after last year? He’s 39, couldn’t get anyone out in the NL and now he’s moved to the AL in a division that just got tougher.

              • Steve H says:


                Battle for 5th spot (only if Carmona isn’t back):

                Why on earth would they trade a useful part coming off 3 straight productive seasons for a guy coming off two horrible seasons to add to the stockpile of backend arms?

                • Steve S. says:

                  Lowe’s a lock? For what, to get DFAd by July?

                  They need depth. They have nothing at AAA. Pronk’s a 1 way DH with no positional flexibility. Trade for AJ, sign Damon and they’re a better team. they have a two way DH with positional flexibility and rotation depth.

                  • Steve H says:

                    AJ has been the worst starting pitcher in baseball. The Indians have plenty of arms to duplicate him, in 2012 and 2013 when Carrasco comes back. He’s not worth the roster spot in year 2, and they are not going to trade their produective DH (and it’s nice that you just assume Damon would sign there) for a guy who may or may not make the rotation. It makes no sense from Cleveland’s perspective.

                  • MannyGeee says:

                    Battle for 5th spot (only if Carmona isn’t back):

                    All can give you what AJ did last season. I would think if they wanted to move Haffner, they could get something cheaper/more useful.

              • Plank says:

                15.75 is less than 16.5. I did read what you wrote. It’s factually incorrect and logically unsound.

                • Steve S. says:

                  You think that because you’re unfamiliar with Cleveland’s farm system and act like deals happen in a vacuum.

                  • Plank says:

                    I think Hafner makes less money than AJ because his salary is lower.

                    It’s logically unsound because they already traded for a better, cheaper AJ in the form of Lowe and they aren’t going to get rid of one of their best hitters and one of their only marketable names to get two years of one of the worst pitchers in the major leagues.

                    Thanks for telling me why I think what I think, by the way.

                    • Steve H says:

                      And they gave up nothing for Lowe, yet would somehow now turn around and trade a productive hitter, who they would then have to replace, for a guy who at best is a 5th starter.

                    • RetroRob says:

                      Let’s also not forget that the Indians were looking to add another hitter, and had even contacted the Yankees about Swisher. It wouldn’t then make sense for them to weaken their hitting even more to move Hafner and get back AJ.

                      I do think the Indians would take AJ, but only if the Yankees shipped a ton of money with him, and expected nothing of substance back. AJ is now a sunk cost in the Yankees universe and teams trying to deal for him know that.

            • vin says:

              Yeah, the difference is 15.75 (2012 plus buyout) for Hafner and 33 for AJ. Not to mention the fact that AJ has a limited no trade clause. Per Cots, he can block deals to 10 clubs each year. Not sure exactly how it works though… does he come up with a list of 10 teams every year?

          • Steve H says:

            They are not going to trade their starting DH for a 5th-7th starter.

            They gave up nothing for $5 million worth of Derek Lowe, now they’d trade Hafner for Burnett? Nope.

          • CJ says:

            BTW Cleveland just learned today they will not win their division in 2012 2013. Steve, better chance of AJ + $30 mil & Betances for Ubaldo.

      • Soriano Is A Liar says:

        If he can stay healthy…

        • Steve S. says:

          The shoulder hasn’t bothered him for 2 years, and that was the big problem. He hurt his foot late last year, but seems to have avoided surgery.

          • CJ says:

            Steve here is a better proposal if you like Pronk so much, Justin Maxwell for Travis hafner + $10 million. Would you do that? I wouldn’t. That trade proposal sucks for yanks but Cleveland pulls the trigger so fast you’re head would spin.

      • Plank says:

        Why would the Indians take on payroll to get rid of their longtime hero and bring in AJ Burnett?

  8. Grit for Brains says:

    We will miss you very much Jorge…Can’t wait to see you back at the stadium collecting your retirement gifts.

  9. Steve S. says:

    Anyone else amazed that Fielder got 9 years with that body at age 28? His dad’s bat slowed down and was shot by age 32 had a similar body type.

    Oh, and what was the team that his dad played for? That’s right.

    • Steve (different one) says:

      Yes, it is shocking. Though I guess it shouldn’t be.

    • Thomas Cassidy says:

      I’d sign Prince for 9 years before I even signed Pujols for 6. Just because he’s fat (which he really isn’t all that fat), doesn’t mean he won’t be able to hit. Plus, DH.

      • vin says:

        These moves aren’t made in a vaccuum though. The Tigers 2 best hitters are 1B/DH types already. The Angels have Morales coming off a long injury, and Trumbo is very tradeable. The money is a surprise, but the fact that it came from the Tigers is even more perplexing.

        • Thomas Cassidy says:

          I was definitely caught off guard by the move, but I would have done if I was the Tigers, too. They can move Cabrera to the DH. V-Mart will be moved to another team next year probably (White Sox or A’s, lol).

    • vin says:

      I think you’d be hard-pressed to find someone who wasn’t amazed that Fielder got that contract.

      IMO, the best way to ensure big contracts don’t become a complete boondoggle is to ensure has a means to age. Meaning… spending big money on a guy like CC makes sense because he can afford to lose a few mph off his fastball. Similarly, Matt Holliday’s contract made sense because he derives value from his glove, and legs as well as his bat. Also, he can slide down the defensive spectrum if the need arises (LF to first base).

      The Tigers have signed a guy to an exorbitant contract who is already a negative defensively and on the bases. And he plays the 2nd easiest position (besides DH). And the makeup of their team is such that their three best hitters are really first baseman, AT BEST.

      There’s no safety net here. He can’t slide down the rotation like a former ace pitcher. He can’t move to 1B and then DH when he can no longer play the field (as Miggy has been trending towards). You can’t rely on his superior baserunning and/or defense if he doesn’t hit as expected (like a Crawford or Werth).

      Baffling move by the Tigers. I’ve seen people speculate that the ownership went over Dombrowski’s head on this one. I hope, for his sake, that’s the case.

      • MannyGeee says:

        I think this deal just punched Martinez’ ticket out of town when hes healthy. He isnt much of a catcher, and now theres a logjam at 1b. V Mart has the least value of the 3 at 1B or DH.

        By the trade deadline 2013, VMart wears another uniform, write it down.

    • CJ says:

      I’m more shocked that the tigers if Detroit gave any player $214 million. The story of the recession/depression in Detroit is an under reported story. There is not a single chain food retailer in Detroit metro area, food is sold in corner stores and delivered by armed guards in armored trucks. I’m not kidding (not something to joke about)

      • Steve S. says:

        Yeah, I should have brought that up. Detroit is one of those places that tends to overpay to get guys to play there, because everyone knows what rough shape that town is in, and has been in for many years. It’s a tough sell, so they wind up blowing guys out of the water to get them aboard.

  10. Tyrone Sharpton says:

    I like what I’m seeing from the Nets. Theyir d is ok, the rookie brooks is great and they have cap cash. If they get Dwight, man they’d be contenders

  11. Mike E says:

    Phil Hughes, Adam Warren, and Brandon Laird for 3 years of Chase Headley.

    Away from Petco numbers .330/.399/.465

    His range at 3rd is typically very good too.

  12. Nashman says:

    What about Orlando Cabrera We don’t don’t need a hitter and he play short and probably third

  13. MrG says:

    One of the aspects of the Jorge presser that stuck out to me the most is when he talked about how core values of being a “Yankee” were instilled in him and the rest of the core four throughout their development in the minor leagues. 

    Clearly there is know way to know for sure unless your in the locker room but it makes you wonder how much of a practice this is in the post George Steinbrenner era. George was known for often bringing a presence to the spring training and around the facilities, letting players know what is was expected of a Yankee. With this changing of the guard when we see jeter and mo eventually move on, who takes on that responsibility of passing this legacy on to upcoming players? 

    With cano as the only remaining homegrown “superstar” on the team outside of jeter and mariano will these “Yankee values” be lost with a crop of new young players/free agents? 

    Clearly, these “Yankee values” may have no real bearing when it comes to on-field performance, however, I do think it is part of the tradition that we all as Yankee fans love and appreciate. 

  14. Steve H says:

    Would you trade Nunez for Iglesias?

    • Thomas Cassidy says:

      Is that a joke?

    • Mike E says:

      Of course, he’s a .333 major league hitter!

      I would, his tools at defense are much better than Nunez, and Nunez will never start based on his bat. Considering the type of bonus he received, you’d have to think that Iglesias’ bat has a higher ceiling than Nunez.

      • Steve (different one) says:

        Or….the Sox, who have wasted hundreds of millions of dollars in the last few years on busts, were wrong about him. Either or.

        • Mike E says:

          Could be, but I don’t think you can make that decision on a guy who just turned 22 after 2 rushed years.

          • Steve H says:

            His bat is beyond awful though. I think the bonus at this point is irrelevant, his bat is much, much worse than Ramiro Pena’s, and most of the scouts who raved about him before seem to have given up on the upside of his bat.

            • Mike E says:

              He’s had one good year hitting (if you consider his first year good) and one bad year hitting. He only spent 261 PA between A and AA ball and the Red Sox moved him straight to AAA at 21. That seems ridiculous, even for a guy who’s played in Cuba. He’ll never have Arod power, but hitting a solid .300 with great defense is very valuable at SS. I wouldn’t write him off yet.

      • “Considering the type of bonus he received, you’d have to think that Iglesias’ bat has a higher ceiling than Nunez.”

        Based on that premise you would think that Michael Ynoa has 10x the upside of Manny Banuelos.

      • MannyGeee says:

        I think you greatly underestimate Nunez’ total body of work compared to Iglesias’ lack there-of.

        Nunez is not exactly an automatic out, has some pop, has defensive range (please dont menation the arm, please dont mention the arm, please dont mention the arm) and can swipe a bag or 2.

        • RetroRob says:

          I’d rather have Nunez. I also think Nunez would be okay at SS defensively if he played there reguarly, as he did in AAA in 2010. The bouncing from SS to 3B to 2B is challenging for a guy who has always played every day. It the choice is Nunez or Iglesias playing every day, I’m taking Nunez.

  15. Brett says:

    If a player has 20 million over two years remaining on his original 5 year 50 million contract, and he is traded to another team as well as 10 million, how does that affect luxury tax?

    • RetroRob says:

      Let’s use a real-player example. If the Yankees were to trade AJ Burnett and his $33 million owed over the next two years to the Braves, and threw in $23 million in cash, then the Yankees would have the $23 million, or specifically $11.5 million per year, applied toward their luxury tax payroll. The Braves would have $10 million, or $5 million per year, applied toward their luxury tax payroll (something they have no chance of hitting). In other words, the Yankees would lower their luxury tax payroll by $10 million.

      Or more simply, however much each team is paying toward the player’s contract gets applied to that team’s luxury tax payroll, divided by the number of years left on the contract. That determines the AAV for each team.

      At least that’s my understanding.

  16. Plank says:

    Each team would get 5MM/year.

    Maybe if team A who traded the player gave all the money for just the first season, it would be team A getting 10 million in year one and team B getting 10 million in year 2. That part I’m not sure about.

  17. RetroRob says:

    So when will we ever have a day at Yankee Stadium for any of the dynasty heros? Bernie, Andy and now Jorge have all retired, but no days have happened. I don’t think they should be done as a group. Each one deserves a day.

  18. Vegetable Lasagna says:

    Jorgie is one of the last of the all time great true Yankees. Bernie, Andy, and Jorgie are now gone and only Jeter and Mo remain. Next year it will be Mo. I’d like to see them hold Jorgie back a year for the HOF so that he and Mo can go in together as it should be. Once Jeter retires that’s the end of the 90s Yankees we all grew up with.

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