Jan
03

Updated: Yankees bid $15M for Darvish

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Jan. 3rd: Just for the sake of completeness, here’s an update to let you know that the Yankees bid exactly $15M for Darvish according to Jon Heyman. You can now go back to your regularly scheduling complaining about the pitching staff.

Dec. 22nd: Via Jon Heyman, the Yankees bid somewhere between $15-17M for Darvish. Various reports also indicate that no team was even close to the Rangers, who apparently blew away the field with their $51.7M bid. This whole thing is reminiscent of the Daisuke Matsuzaka bidding, when it was the Red Sox (big gap) everyone else.

Dec. 20th: Via Andrew Marchand, the Yankees bid less than $20M for Yu Darvish. The Rangers won the right-hander’s negotiating rights with a $51.7M bid, so the Yankees weren’t even in the same ballpark. This morning we heard that they submitted their bid with the idea that he could fall into their laps if other clubs were tapped out this late in the winter, but obviously that didn’t happen. Marchand says the Yankees just weren’t sold on how Darvish’s stuff and makeup would translate over from Japan, and I guess you have to be sure if you’re going to invest nine-figures.

Categories : Asides

223 Comments»

  1. mryankee says:

    What a disgraceful rotation. This is a joke just a complete joke.

    • Peter R says:

      take a chill pill man. Pretty much the same rotation got us to the ALDS this year and Phil and AJ could be more useful this year.

      Not to mention the offseason is not over yet. lol

      Just calm the f down OK?

      • mryankee says:

        Are you serious? Have you seen how the other divisional teams improved or will? At least they are trying? What the hell is Cashman thinking?

        • FIPster Doofus says:

          What have the other divisional teams done?

        • Peter R says:

          Not sure I can seen how other teams will improve…

          But no, Boston got some infielders? And Tampa has done……?

          Can’t say the game has changed that much besides Baltimore got a bit better maybe and the Blue Jays are starting to come into the picture again?

        • Dave203 says:

          Seriously? What exactly have the Sox or the Rays done this offseason that was so impressive that would change anything from last year to this year (considering, oh yeah, we won the division last year)?

          Boston’s key additions — Melancon, Punto, Shoppach
          Bostons’s key losses — PAPELBON

          Tampa’s key additions — JOSE MOLINA

          Now really, come on, do explain your ridiculous overstatement…

    • ADam says:

      Not time to fly off the handle yet

    • Geo says:

      Ugh… The complaining has started before Christmas this year. It seems to get earlier and earlier.

      • G says:

        Well I think complaining about the state of the Yankees is premature, no doubt. There’s plenty of time to work out a trade, sign Cespedes, or get Roy Oswalt on a 1 year deal. However the fact that they made a bid that was not only modest, but flat out insulting to Darvish, is disgraceful. I’d understand a $35 million bid and they could hope everyone else was erring on the side of caution, but they knew they were being ridiculous with this and still did it. Hell they bid more for Kei Igawa than they did for Darvish.

        It’s not just that they didn’t get Darvish that has us upset, it’s the fact that they don’t seem to have even made an effort. They didn’t even half ass it, they just flat out let it go by. Sure Darvish is a risky signing, but you have to take risks to get anywhere. Years ago they could have played it safe in the draft and picked a proven college player who they were guaranteed to sign, but they took the risk of drafting one Derek Jeter, a player rumored to be set on going to college.

        • OldYanksFan says:

          They offered what they felt he was worth. My guess is they knew they weren’t going to get him. How do you define ‘making an effort’? By offering someone much more then you think they are worth?

    • Mick says:

      Put on a Red Sox jersey and go cry somewhere else.

    • IBelieveInAJ says:

      Hey asswipe, read this and calm the crap down.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01.....imessports

      Thank you Tyler Kepner for understanding where the Yankees head’s are at.

  2. Gonzo says:

    Better than not bidding.

  3. JD says:

    Japanese pitchers are not worth it

    • G says:

      Yeah don’t generalize or anything. Clearly every player who comes from Japan is the same and there’s no chance that the one with significantly better numbers and much more powerful stuff could actually be the ace he’s hyped as.

      I’m not saying they should have bad $65 million, at the price he went for I would’ve been shocked if the Yankees had won even with strong interest in him. But to make a bid as insulting as this? They’re just being stupid.

  4. mryankee says:

    The Sox, Rays and Jays have better rotations.

    • ADam says:

      I’ll give you the Rays, But the Yanks Eat up LHP, and got news for you… Slosh Becket ain’t going 5-0 against the Yanks this year.

      Who do Jays have that are superior to Phil Hughes, Ivan Nova, Fred/AJ, and Noesi? They Traded Marcum last year.

      It’s frustrating that there have been no headlines and gaudy press conferences, but the market next year is far superior to this years, wait it out Its not even February dude.

    • Dave203 says:

      Right…

      Boston who only has 2 SPs (Beckett and Lester). Buchholz can’t stay health and Lackey/Dice-K are out of the year. Really?

      Tampa has a better rotation on paper, but they still will have no offense whatsoever. Spare me…

      Toronto? When they start competing for the wild card at end the season, let me know and I will start caring about them again.

  5. Leg-End says:

    Ninja bid.

  6. mryankee says:

    The New York Pirates sounds right to me.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      You should go watch the real Pirates for a season or two.

      • mryankee says:

        For the Yankees to subject the fans to this rotation? You have to be kidding me.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          You don’t have to watch or go to the games. Protest by not going.

        • Overrated Packers says:

          seriously? Stfu. ONE YEAR! its better than being the mets

        • John says:

          Subject to this rotation? This is basically the same rotation we had last year, when we won 97 games. If being ‘subjected’ to said rotation equates to 97 wins, then fine, sign me up.

          • G says:

            Minus Colon’s miracle first half, most likely minus Freddy’s lucky performance, and possibly with a drop off year from Nova.

            We got very lucky last year, don’t try to say we weren’t. I’m not about to protest and start rooting for the Marlins if we do nothing, but there’s no way I’ll feel comfortable expecting lightning to strike twice.

            • Need Pitching says:

              Garcia, Nova and Colon definitely exceeded expectations, but Hughes and AJ both fell short of expectations. I don’t expect Garcia or Nova (or Colon if he’s brought back) to be as good this year, but I would certainly expect Nova and Garcia to be at least servicable, with a possible bounce back from Hughes(hell, maybe even AJ does better).
              With the Yankees offense and bullpen, the rotation as is (and with solid options in Triple A) will probably be good enough to make the playoffs (or at least good enough to keep them in the race to make a trade at the deadline if necessary).

              • G says:

                Legitimate points, I’m just not sure if banking on AJ and Hughes bouncing back is a good call. I’m all for expecting Hughes to be a solid #4 guy and hoping he can be more, but we can’t expect him to suddenly put everything together and fill a top of the rotation void. I have a ton of faith in him and honestly expect that he’ll go the way of Johnson, Halladay, and Lee, which is to say figure things out in his late twenties and finally live up to his potential. However, I don’t expect it to happen suddenly.

                Expecting AJ to bounce back just isn’t a good call. We expected it last year and while he was certainly better, even good outside a string of disastrous starts that caused his ERA to balloon, he still performed at a level undeserving of a major league rotation spot.

                I think we can expect Hughes to provide what Freddy did last year, but who’s going to replace Nova’s decline and the lack of Colon’s magic?

                I don’t think we need to make a huge splash, just go for Oswalt on a one year deal. However just because there are potential bounce backs doesn’t mean we can depend on them. Freddy and Nova could decline, Bart may not come back, and AJ and Hughes could both bomb again. I understand everything is a calculated risk and expecting a doomsday scenario like this may be a bit rash, but the likelihood of it happening is much too high for comfort.

                • Need Pitching says:

                  I agree with every thing you said. My point is just that it is possible this could be a solid rotation, and should at the very least be solid enough to keep them in contention until a possible upgrade at the trade deadline.
                  It’s definitely not a rotation that I would have confidence in being WS championship caliber though.
                  I’m still expecting Cash to bring in at least a solid #3 starter either in the offseason or at the deadline and then try to go big in next season’s free agent class.

                  • G says:

                    Yes it’s possible, it’s just the risk of it not being solid is much too high. Like I said, just sign Oswalt for a year and I’m content. Keep the prospects without rushing them up, and don’t bank so much on everyone bouncing back or retaining the success they had last year.

                    Like many I’m skeptical about how great next year’s FA market will be. It looks awesome with Hamels and Cain headlining a long list of top of the rotation pitchers, but honestly what are the odds they don’t get locked up? Hamels and Cain are on two teams that rely almost solely on pitching. They aren’t letting them get away without a fight. Recently I’ve found Hamels to be an interesting case. With the amount of money the Phillies have dedicated to Papelbon and Rollins this off-season, it’s starting to look like the Phillies are going to have to choose between Hamels and having an even somewhat acceptable offense (keeping Victorino, Pence, etc.). They know very well that they fell short of their goal last season because of a lack of offense. You can’t win if you can’t score, no matter how great the pitching is, and I’m starting to wonder if the Phillies would prefer building around their pair of bona fide aces atop the rotation, letting Hamels walk, and instead using money they would have given to him to build up an offense that can actually give some run support.

                    It’s an interesting thought but Hamels seems to have enough interest in staying that they could lock him up at a discounted price and still build up the offense. I’d like to say it’s 50-50 on whether or not he stays there, but I’m thinking it’s more like 70-30 in favor of him staying. A Sabathia-Hamels 1-2 punch is a dream, but we can’t expect it.

                    Outside Hamels and Cain I really don’t see anyone who interests me much. Some would say Greinke, but he’s just the kind of guy who would crumble in New York.

  7. duzzi23 says:

    This was a lowball bid just to show face that they “tried”. It is infuriating how Cashman and the front office has handled the last two offseasons. That bid is an insult to Yankee fans intelligence. Cashman still comes away empty handed can’t get one decent starter for the rotation. I doubt we will make any moves to upgrade our rotation or even team in general.

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      Trying would have been 30-35 million.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      Trust me, they don’t care about your intelligence.

      • mryankee says:

        Come on man I know your a great fann but you have to admit this is pretty piss poor? Another question how did Matt Moore get to the eigth round?

        • Dan says:

          the Matt Moore question is idiotic… at best.
          Sorry, but bash every other scouting department too then. Matt Moore developing into a stud is not Cashman’s fault.
          find a new axe to grind, then just fall on it….

        • bryan w says:

          Wanna know how then go ahead and google old scouting reports on Moore. He basically just started throwing 98 all of a sudden kinda like how Rivera did when he was in the minors. Moore was not exactly a fringe arm but more in the low 90s then what type of stuff he has now.

          • G says:

            Exactly, you can’t knock scouting departments for missing guys who became miracle cases. We could say everyone in baseball is an idiot for passing on Pujols 12(?) times, but they had no way to know what he’d do then. Similarly, the Yankees signed Mo for what, a couple thousand dollars?

            Being mad over Darvish I understand, but the Matt Moore question is idiotic.

        • pat says:

          Ask the GM’s of every other team besides Tampa the same question.

    • Peter R says:

      It is a blind posting process. They just bid what they thought he was worth. There is really nothing else you can do without just bidding an absurd amount and hoping to blow people out (Red Sox).

      They are a lot smarter baseball wise than you and have had teams of people looking at Yu for years….I think they know what they were doing.

      The Rangers just were willing to take the gamble and the Yanks were not. Can you really blame them for not paying $100 million of a guy who pitched well in AAA? Lets see if he is good in 4-5 years and then we can just get him as a FA OK?

      • duzzi23 says:

        I’ll side with Nolan Ryan Daniels and his team of scouts when it comes to pitching. Texas has great scouting and developed CJ from middle relief fodder to an Allstar not to mention got Colby Lewis for nothing and developed Holland Harrison Feliz and even Ogando. Plus they do not baby their pitchers in the minors like we do. They saw something in Darvish and I will give them the benefit of the doubt. They did go to the world series two years in a row its not like they are clueless.

        • Peter R says:

          I can’t argue with that but they are also in a more dire situation with their rotation and had to make a gamble. The Yankees already have an Ace and a number 2 (at least according to the contract). Was it really worth mucking up the next 4,5 or 6 years of payroll based on a gamble when the Yankees really don’t need it to get to the postseason?

          It is clear the Rangers didn’t bid on CJ because they intended to go big here all along.

    • thenamestsam says:

      If that’s how much you value him, that’s how much you should bid, but I’m very surprised that they placed such a low value on him. It seems like if they won with this bid they would have been guaranteed to make their money back off of increased revenues alone, let alone any benefit he might bring to the team. If they really bid less than 20M, that tells me they don’t even think he can be an improvement over what they have in the rotation now. That’s very surprising to me. Or they really didn’t have the budget to bid more than that. Which is terrifying.

    • Peter R says:

      Newsflash: The Yankees this off-season locked up one of the best pitchers in all of major league baseball for the rest of his career.

      They have made some moves this off-season and they either believe in their young talent or are waiting for the market to get less stupid and other GM’s to stop asking for the entire Scranton and Tampa teams for one guy with a year of control left….or both.

  8. Gonzo says:

    How big is Darvish vs Pujols gonna be? Assuming he signs.

    • Jesse says:

      Never thought of that. Honestly, the first Pujols matchup that popped into my head was A.J Burnett vs Pujols. I can see Pujols cranking an A.J BP fastball deep into the second deck in left at the Stadium.

    • bryan w says:

      Yeah I can’t wait for that first AB. Maybe Yu will drill Pujols like how the Red Sox had A-Rod beaned by Dice-BB.

  9. mryankee says:

    Well we are lucky we get suck ass Burnett, Totally overhyped hughes and BP Garcia. I will not pay one dime for a ticket to this joke.

    • nsalem says:

      This Yankee team unlike the Pirates will win 95 games this year even without your precious number 2 starter. Stop whining or change your name to little MissYankee.

    • Crime Dog says:

      Oh no.

      You’re GM, what do you do? Bid 50+Million on Darvish then sign him to another 70+Million dollar contract? You’re the same person who cries “Igawa 2.0!” if Darvish signs with the Yankees and fails in his first season.

    • Dan says:

      and thats just how cash man wants it… can i have your tickets? Let the smart people in the front office work. we are no where near as informed as they are… about ANYTHING

    • toad says:

      We’ll miss you.

    • Evan3457 says:

      You’ll be missed.

      /randalled

  10. Bob Loblaw says:

    good thing they bid $26 mil for igawa

    • mryankee says:

      Of course I forgot the crck scouting department, bid on Igawa? Pass on Darvish? I know lets sign fat ass Colon again?

      • nsalem says:

        Colon has won some major league games as opposed to Darvish..

        • G says:

          Even insinuating that Colon’s current skill level is anything similar to Darvish’s is laughable… Wow

          • nsalem says:

            You nor does anyone else have any clue of what Darvish will do at the Major League level.
            I was insinuating that Colon may be a much better deal at one million a year than Darviish is at the approximate cost of 25 million per year between posing and salary. It’s your arrogance that is truly laughable.

            • G says:

              Ugh sorry, blatant misinterpretation… Ok I agree, I thought you were implying that Colon was the better pitchersimplybecause he has wins under his belt. I’d bet a large sum of money that if I put Darvish and Colon through a full season of MLB level play, Darvish would have the better season. But yes, I don’t know if the disparity in their performances would be great enough to justify giving Yu 6 times as many years and about 30 times as much money. Fair enough.

    • Mike HC says:

      It is still somewhat consistent in that they didn’t bid that high for Dice K either. But the Igawa bid was just terrible no matter how you look at it. The scouting they had on him must have just been laughably wrong.

  11. Zack D says:

    Arghh outrage

  12. Gonzo says:

    Makeup concerns, huh? I wanna hear more about that.

    Curious to know the details about his stuff too.

  13. Nathan says:

    Pathetic. Might as well not have bid.

  14. Mike HC says:

    I hope for Cashman’s sake that Darvish ends up being pretty underwhelming.

    • Peter R says:

      Why? I wish him success. Then we can sign him when he becomes a free agent. Cashman just didn’t think the gamble was worth the payroll (and upfront cost). The Rangers have a much more dire rotation situation and need to make the gamble. Much like the Yanks they got cash and saw this as a good way to use it.

      • Mike HC says:

        Because if he turns into a star for one of our main competitors it will show that Cashman misvalued him pretty badly.

        • Need Pitching says:

          it would mean he reached his ceiling and the risk paid off for Texas. There is no way to know for sure how a Japanese pitcher will fare in MLB until they actually pitch in MLB. Everyone knows what Darvish’s upside is, the question is how likely he is to reach that upside. $100M+ is an awful lot to gamble on that for a team that is already carrying several horrible contracts.

        • thenamestsam says:

          That’s not how value works. If I buy a lottery ticket and win that doesn’t show that I valued the lottery ticket correctly.

          It’s not a direct analogy, but Yu has some probability of being successful in MLB. The Yankees thought that probability was low, say 20%. The Rangers though it was high, say 75% (in actuality we’re talking talking about a continuous range of values and probabilities, but the simplified version illustrates the point). Once he is successful, it is more likely that the Rangers were correct, but it is not certain. Cashman could have been exactly correct about his potential outcomes and YU just happened to be the 20% shot that paid off. Winning the lottery does not mean you made the right decision to buy the ticket.

  15. John says:

    Quick, everyone, kick and scream because we didn’t committ 100+ million to a Japanese player whose never pitched in MLB.

  16. JamieKage says:

    Good news is we lost the bidding by over 30 mill…just imagine if you’re the Jays today and you lost by less than 2 mill if the recent report of them offering slightly more than 50 mill is accurate.

    • Mike HC says:

      If that is true, it means they didn’t have the balls to break the Dice K posting record and the Rangers did. The blind posting system is kind of cool, ha.

    • thenamestsam says:

      Not saying you’re wrong, because people are rarely rational, but if you placed a rational bid, you have no reason to be upset about losing, whether you lost by a penny or 100M dollars. Unless you think you can predict other teams’ bids, there is no bid that makes any sense except exactly the amount that you think his negotiating rights are worth. If that’s what they bid then they have no reason to be upset about losing out. If they’re upset about losing out then it logically follows that they should have bid more.

      • Mike HC says:

        When you bid over 50 million and then only lose by a million or two, you are obviously going to be disappointed. The blind posting system is a bitch.

      • JamieKage says:

        Psychology definitely comes into this sort of thing or the Red Sox would’ve never picked such an odd number of 51.1 million to begin with. The thinking is, well 50 million is too round a number, so I’ll uptick it by 1 million…but what if someone else is thinking that…so I’ll get real sneaky and uptick that by 100,000. Trust me, I trade stock for a living…everything most certainly is not based on dollars and cents and what a stock should be worth…psychology plays a huge part.

        • thenamestsam says:

          I absolutely agree that psychology plays a part. I was just pointing out the rationality argument. I also think the Red Sox situation actually illustrates how silly some of that stuff can be. I mean the Red Sox clearly thought they were being pretty clever, but in the end they just cost themselves 1.1 million.

      • I don’t think he means upset in an “argh how did we not KNOW that someone was going to post a record bid and beat us out” kind of way, but more in an “argh we liked this player so much that we bid 50 fucking million dollars and the winning bid wound up being only about 3% higher than ours” kind of way. And I think being upset in that way is much more rational than not. I mean, how could that not sting? They bid a fuckton and lost by a very small sliver of that fuckton.

        • thenamestsam says:

          If that’s how they feel then their bid wasn’t very rational. They should have asked themselves the question: If we lose to a slightly higher bid, how will we feel? The answer, you feel, would have been “We bid a ton and still lost by such a small amount, that’s horrible.” Isn’t the obvious conclusion, if you’re going to be upset about losing to that slightly higher bid, to raise your bid to a price at which when you lose you feel like: “At that price, you take him”.

          • You’re basing your response on this idea:

            “They should have asked themselves the question: If we lose to a slightly higher bid, how will we feel?”

            Which I think completely misses the totally meaningless point that I’m now going to belabor: Even if they bid the absolute most they would ever in a million zillion years have been willing to bid, it would still a perfectly rational feeling to be upset or disappointed by being outbid by a very small amount.

  17. ADam says:

    Axisa, Give mryankee his own segment on the weekly podcast… Please!!!

  18. Robert says:

    The New York cheapskates strike again.

    • Peter R says:

      lolz I hope? Did you see the contract we gave CC? How about the contract we gave last off-season to a aging shortstop?

      lol

  19. Peter R says:

    So now we know what “modest” means to the New York Yankees, more than I will make in 20 lifetimes. Down with the 1%!

    I kid of course but it could be useful information when translating future rumors.

  20. Brian says:

    No problem with them not bidding high on the guy if they didn’t feel he was worth it, can’t fault them for that.

    On the other hand, they picked off the scrap heap last year and got lucky with Freddy and Bart, but all season we had to hear Cash talk about how the rotation was incomplete and that they would try to add someone at the deadline, then nothing happens. Next he says that that is the top priority of the offseason, they’ve extended CC which we all knew would happen, but other than that, they’ve turned their nose to every free agent or trade offer that’s come their way.

    I’m not saying to go pick someone up for the sake of doing it, but at least talk to the guy. Not entertaining CJ Wilson was just plain stupid – at least drive the price up if you’re not interested. How can you go into the offseason talking about how you need to upgrade your staff and fail to even feign interest in the top free agents? Baffling.

  21. CJ says:

    All this means us that cashman doesn’t think Yu Darvish is as good as kei igawa, since he placed a lower bid on Yu. This is good news though I was worried he may help the 2X AL Champion Rangers.

  22. mryankee says:

    Some of you guys sound like Jack Curry spout the company line about rotation depth and whatever BS he repeats. All I am asking for is one more quality pitcher and I would feel better however it appears that Cashman does not see what we see.

  23. Virgil Earp says:

    So let me get this straight. We need help in the rotation and we didn’t go after the two biggest FA pitchers. Who are they going to fill the rotation with, Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson? Cashman got lucky last year with Colon and Freddy. Where were those two in the playoffs? We were down to CC who stunk it up, Nova, and an unreliable AJ who they need to give away. Boston’s got a new attitude with Bobby V and we’ve gotta keep up.

    • mryankee says:

      Thats what yu can expect. Its simple Cashman has too much ego wants to win with lower payroll and his guys.

      • Need Pitching says:

        Hal is forcing the lower payroll more than Cash.
        Seriously though, people whining about the Yankees not spending money when they will again have the highest payroll by a large margin.

    • Brian says:

      Don’t worry, it’s only a matter of time before Randy Levine overreacts and pushes to sign a short reliever to a ridiculous contract. “Shorten the game to four innings!!!!”

      • mryankee says:

        Does not take a baseball genius to see the rotation sucks. That is why you have offseasons and trade deadlines to improve your team.

        • Need Pitching says:

          and making rash decisions out of desparation is how you end up with guys like Javy Vazquez, Jeff Weaver, Jaret Wright, Kei Igawa, etc….
          This rotation was good enough to be the best team in the AL last year.

          • BigDavey88 says:

            I don’t think the Javy 2.0 trade was a rash decision. In hindsight, yes, but hindsight is stupid and irrelevant. At the time, nobody expected him to fall off of a cliff like that. Imagine if he was still able to pitch like he had throughout his career – who knows how the ALCS might have played out? Heh, and he was our “Number 5″.

            I still like the trade to this day.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      Keep up? How many games back of the Yankees did the Red Sox finish last year? Who is keeping up with who?

    • toad says:

      Bobby V. will be a disaster in Boston.

      You heard it here first.

  24. Gonzo says:

    If RAB has a slow day and you need some eyeballs, this should be your post:

    Yu Darvish

    Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish Yu Darvish.

    You would get over 100 comments easy.

  25. Bryan W says:

    Does anyone know what the 2nd highest bid was on for Dice-BB? I can’t recall but in hindsight the less than $20M bid the Yankees offered for Yu seems like that would have been right on instead of the actual fee the Sox paid. Maybe then the Yu sweepstakes would have been in the $25-30M range instead of $51.7M. Yeah, so uh, let’s blame Boston for this instead of the Yankees being cheap. I may or not be joking about that :)

  26. CJ says:

    Don’t cashman will make it up to us with a stupid move, he always does (Vasquez II, Rafael Soriano, pudge) All the cashman defenders and apologists will have their chance to go ballistic when he makes that signature stupid move. Especially if he trades manbam and/or Jesus.

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      To be fair Soriano was a Levine move.

    • Evan3457 says:

      Wait? Do you want the pitcher or not.

      Because the Cubs are asking for Montero and Banuelos and Betances, or possibly just the first two for Garza.

      Pick one side of the issue; you don’t get to have both. That’s “magical” thinking, so typical of irrational Cashman bashers.

  27. mryankee says:

    I swear some of the stuff I read. What the Yankees are supposed to feel sorry for spending alot? What is this little league dont offend the opponents? I dont care if the payroll is 300 million. Do what it takes to win every year. Am I wrong here?

    • CJ says:

      $pend it if ya got it. The yanks have the money payroll tax or not.

    • Need Pitching says:

      yeah, you sound like a whining baby
      they already have the highest payroll by a wide margin

    • G says:

      They can reduce the luxury tax from over 50% to barely over 15% just by lowering the payroll for one year… That’s worth it.

      Not to mention if they even approach $300 million 29 other clubs are going to be screaming for either a salary cap or the commissioner’s head. I agree that they are showing too much restraint, but the free spending you’re suggesting is just the kind of attitude that gives Yankees a cad rep for being ignorant frontrunners.

    • BigDavey88 says:

      Stop trolling dude. We get it. Nothing the Yankees do is right.

      Nothing to see here.

    • Chad Gaudin the Friendly Ghost says:

      Trolling is fun. You can try it too.

    • Dave203 says:

      Yes, you’re wrong…

      Not your money to spend. The Yanks, particularly Hal, is more concerned with his money. I certain you’d be the first to complain that ticket prices just doubled to pay for your ridiculous suggestions.

  28. D-Lite says:

    This thread is why people hate Yankee fans. Come on people. So he’s not a Yankee. I can’t wait for the hindsight shenanigans to start.
    Remember, the 96-2001 dynasty was built from within. I want the kids to get a chance.

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      The core was built from within but a number of pieces on the team was acquired through trades and free agency.

    • JamieKage says:

      I think everyone wants to let the kids get a chance when possible. What I think people have a problem with is the way they use the kids once they’re allowed a chance. I personally think if a pitcher is going to get hurt, he’s going to get hurt. No matter what kind of pitch count you might have him on or not have him on…but it rubs some fans the wrong way when you’re publicizing rules to keep your pitchers healthy…and both pitchers(joba and hughes) get hurt. And I know they have Nova on a program as well, difference being, we didn’t hear about it…and voila, he looks like the leash is off and he stays healthy and has success.

  29. CJ says:

    Btw Boston is still in on Gio and madson and Toronto can throw cash at Prince. Baltimore is reportedly in on Prince for crying out loud.

  30. CJ says:

    When will this board turn in cashman?
    A. Boston makes a big move or two (gio, Hanley, madson)
    B. Yanks trade montero and/or banuelos

  31. CJ says:

    At this point, I’m ready to go with the kids. Trade AJ +$, trade Freddy Garcia (sorry going in a different direction).
    Cc nova Hughes noesi phelps/Warren/betances/banuelos.
    Don’t be afraid to rush banuelos yanks can go for the young phenom bring him up June 1st assuming he’s healthy and looks good enough in spring training and Scranton.

  32. mustang says:

    I totally understand not bidding 51.7 million, but Wow that bid is a METish type move.

    “We are not going to put a serious bid in just a bullshit one maybe we get lucky and he falls in our laps.”

    TOTALLY MET LIKE.

    So this is what the Yankees have come to laying under the table waiting for a good piece of meat to fall in their mouths.

    They would of been better of saving their dignity and not bidding at all.

    • pat says:

      Lol yeah, except if every other team was bullshitting and someone won with a bid below 20 million.

      • mustang says:

        But they didn’t and everyone knew that a below 20 wasn’t going to win so why bother.

        • The Big City of Dreams says:

          The hype alone is 30 million how on Earth did they think he would Falk in their lap at or around 20 million.

          • Need Pitching says:

            I’m sure they weren’t expecting to win the bid. They apparently just bid what they were willing to pay on the extreme long shot that nobody would bid higher.
            There was absolutely no harm in placing a bid that they didn’t expect to win on the extreme off chance that a miracle happened.

          • The Big City of Dreams says:

            Fall*

    • JJ says:

      The Yankees stated they viewed him as a #2 / #3 starter … so their 20 million dollar bid was indicative of that evaluation. It’s comical how you believe the Yankees have lost dignity because they didn’t bid a king’s ransom for another Japanese player.

      • mustang says:

        No that bid is comical.

        Read first please:

        “I totally understand not bidding 51.7 million…..”

        If not really going to play ball then don’t bother showing up at the park.

  33. CJ says:

    Trade Russell Martin too. Romine, cervelii, montero c/dh.
    I’m serious I don’t think replacing Garcia, Martin, AJ with our top prospects hurts the team while building a new core.

    • pat says:

      Have you by any chance looked at some of the walk rates for our top pitching prospects? Probably not, so I’ll enlighten you. Putting someone in the rotation who was walking 4.9 per 9 in AA is a recipe for disaster.

  34. CJ says:

    If $20 million was the winning bid we would all be thinking Yu is not very good. Search your feelings.

    • Need Pitching says:

      if he signed a 50-75M contract on top of that, I would think 70-95M for a pitcher who has never thrown a MLB pitch, the pitcher must have tremendous potential

      • CJ says:

        If 20 was the winning bid and no other team bid more we wouldn’t want him. There would be talk of letting the month end without a deal by offering 5/15 send him back to japan and get the posting fee refunded.

    • JJ says:

      …Because posting fee has a 100% correlation to talent?

      Ring ring, DiceK is on the phone.

  35. Mike c says:

    $20M is about right. spending $125M on a NPB pitcher is lunacy

  36. sam says:

    I find it amusing that people find it crazy to bid more than 50 + million but are willing to pay whatever Hal and Hank ask them to, to sit in the upper deck or wherever they have to sit. If the fans are forced to pay upwards of 150 dollars so that they can get a decent view for a 3 hour experience that has no real significance at all why is it so ridiculous for that fan base to expect the team to spend like there are no legitimate financial issues. Obviously there have been many people who have dominated Japan but Darvish is different and has been scouted much higher than Matsusaka was or Igawa. Theres a decent chance he will be eventually useless or not worth the $ but letting a team who just went to their second consecutive WS take away a potential ace is just bad business. By all accounts Darvish was the player with the most upside available on the market and worst case scenario they have a few extra Darvish jerseys that noone wants. Or they could just raise the ticket prices again, which they will continue to do irregardless of Darvish.
    Obviously saying he is “different” is ambiguous but what i really meant by that is he is not a pussy like most Japanese pitchers and does not let tradition or any of that garbage get in the way of his goal to strike every batter out that comes to the plate. He is scared of noone and most importantly will come inside with his 94-97 whenever he damn well wants to and that is something most Japanese hurlers for whatever reason mind block themselves out of doing.

    • G says:

      …. When’s the last time you went to a game in YS? I didn’t pay more than $17 a ticket for any game not against the Red Sox. I bought pretty nice seats for two games against the Red Sox at the last minute and they were $50 each.

      For some of the less in demand games I paid $5 per ticket for crappy seats just for the fun of it.

      Please have some clue as to what you’re talking about before you start talking. $150 will buy you some very nice seats at a Yankees game, so if you truly believe $150 is the minimum you can spend and still have an enjoyable experience, be my guest. Personally I’ll just keep paying $12 a ticket for bleachers seats and having a great time.

    • TSJC Troll Doppelganger says:

      Sam-

      Bravo for speaking up about the ridiculous ticket prices. Perhaps if the Yanks lowered some of those lower tier seats, they’d actually fill up and wouldn’t make such an insulting bid. I can see not going off the deep end, but cheaper than Igawa? As someone else stated in the above thread, that’s very “Met-like”.

      The Yanks will rue the day they cheaped out on Yu! Japanese pitchers usually do well the first 1.5-2 yrs and Yu is suppose to be better than all of them – 2 yrs is just long enough for Jeter and Rivera’s twilight years. This team is getting old in a hurry.

      • CaptainRaf says:

        the lower bowl seats not being filled has no correlation to what they felt was the proper bid for the organization to make on Darvish.
        and who exactly was it insulting to? the team who accepted a $51.7M bid from an unknown team? or the player who had no choice in who he gets to negotiate with?

  37. SDM says:

    Why does everyone think Nova is going to regress?

    true his FIP for the year was over 4, but outside of his first two months his fip has been in the 3′s; this supports the eyeball test of his improvements as the season went on.

    He has good command of his pitches
    His BABIP was not exceptionally low either

    His slider appears to be a well above average pitch with an insane whiff rate and excellent command. His change also generates an above avg. number of swings and misses.

    The slider also adds a level of deception, making his other pitches better.

    He won’t be King Felix, but it would not be that unlikely to see him not only repeat his 2010 season, but also improve upon it by raising his strike out rates.

    • JamieKage says:

      I think it’s more about his W/L record than anything that people think will regress…which is ironic, cause that’s the only thing he doesn’t really have full control over when all is said and done. I’d say he’s got as good a shot as any young pitcher at improving his stats across the board. Do I think he’s going to have an .800 win % and win 16 games again though? I’d definitely bet against the win % and prolly put it at 60/40 against him winning 16 again…assuming he starts around 30 games.

  38. It'sATarp says:

    Why bid at all then? THe Front office is on crack this offseason.

  39. Ana says:

    People are actually hilarious. Please, continue spouting nonsense about what people who are both more informed and presumably more naturally intelligent than you are should have done with money that isn’t yours to improve a team that had the best record in the AL last season. I mean, you guys have already hit a low point in terms of looking like idiots, and it’s really entertaining.

  40. Miles Davis says:

    yankees think kei igawa is worth a higher bid than yu. lmao

  41. Johnny says:

    Cashman has a plan, lets wait and see what happens. Everyone standing at the edge of the GW bridge just take a step back and relax and be patient. Boston was supposed to have the greatest team ever last year, and look what happened. The Yankees were knocked out of the 1st round because no one could get a clutch hit, not because there pitching failed them.

  42. Kevin says:

    The Yanks spent over $1.25 billion between 2000-2010..how many championships did that get us exactly?
    Look at how much the Cardinals spent during that time as well.

  43. Dick Winters says:

    And this just goes to show you how little these owners want to win. If the Rangers offered $57 George would have offered $60. They would rather spend resources overpaying Soriano despite the already strong bullpen instead of getting much needed starting pitching help. Cashman needs to take charge and get another solid starter.

    • Captain says:

      actually George wouldnt since this was a blind bidding process.

    • If the Rangers offered $57M, George wouldn’t have known about it. What SP would you like Cashman to “take charge” and acquire?

    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

      Except it was a blind bid, so George would have no idea what the Rangers were bidding.

      I am getting very tired of the “George would have” meme. Those saying that obviously have no memory of the ’80s, the only decade since the ’20s that the Yankees didn’t win a WS, which was in large part due to George.

      Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps, Fred McGriff for Dale Murray, Doug Drabek for Rick Rhoden, and on and on.

      George was passionate about winning, but he was also very impulsive and very impatient, a combination that is usually not conducive to success.

      The Yankee organization was turned around in the early ’90s, when George was banned from baseball, and the day to day operations were left to baseball people.

      So please, no more “if George were alive” laments. If George were alive, you can bet that Jesus, Manny and others would have already been dealt for who know what? Ubaldo?

  44. mike says:

    this reminds me of the Mets – being half pregnant doesnt work.

    either put in a bid to win, or dont even play the game….by this bid is Cashman saying Darvish is worth 20mm bonus + 5/75, but not worth 50m +5/75?

    so he is worth 100mm, not 120mm? really?? what are we kansas City??-is this what the Yankees are now worried about? using their greatest strength to their advantage is what allowed them to become successful

    • “by this bid is Cashman saying Darvish is worth 20mm bonus + 5/75, but not worth 50m +5/75?”

      Yes, that’s exactly what he’s saying.

      “so he is worth 100mm, not 120mm? really??”

      The numbers that you used would equate to $95 mil and $125 mil. A $30 mil difference is significant.

      “using their greatest strength to their advantage is what allowed them to become successful”

      See: the mid-2000′s.

      • Plank says:

        Tino Martinez, Chuck Knoblauch, Wade Boggs, Roger Clemens, Jimmy Key, David Wells, Kenny Rogers, Ruben Sierra, Cecil Fielder, David Cone, John Wetteland, off the top of my head. Plus the ability to retain Jeter, Williams, Pettitte, Oniell all at FA prices.

        The Yankees weren’t a small payroll team.

        • Sweet Dick Willie says:

          The Yankees weren’t aren’t a small payroll team.

          fixed

        • Exactly what is your point? Who called them a small payroll team?

          A) Tino, Knoblauch, Clemens, Wetteland, Cone, Fielder, and Sierra were all acquired via trade.

          B) Every player you named has some sort of MLB track record of success (although minimla in the cases of some) and none of them required a posting fee to negotiate with.

          C) Don’t use Kenny Rogers in any argument. Seriously, what are Rogers and Sierra doing amongst the names you listed?

          • Plank says:

            Those are all giant contracts that were on the successful Yankees teams just a few years before the mid 00′s teams with giant contracts. I was highlighting that they have always used essentially the same model.

      • mike says:

        the 30mm, spread over 5 years ( and even longer if he is good and the Yanks re-sign him after the contract expires, or get an additional 1st rd pick or whatever) is absolute peanuts for the Yankees – especially with no cap impact.

        I saw the mid 2000, and the lack of pitching killed them every year irrespective of what they were paying.

        • CS Yankee says:

          The same mid-2000′s that had Kei getting driven around playing AAA ball for 46M$?

          Texas doesn’t have cap concerns and they are gambling big time in Yu. The kei deal (IMHO) happened to offset the Dice-K deal…this happened to offset the CJ/Albert noize made a week earlier. They felt they needed a victory as their #1 is now a #3 in their own division.

          If the Yankees believe he is 75% a sure thing, I understand that they kept their bid under 20, knowing that another 50+ would be needed.

          Plus, (i believe) he is a Boras client…expect another 75-100 being spent or a four year deal.

        • They attempted to add pitching in the mid-2000′s. Pitching that they overpaid for… Jaret Wright, Carl Pavano, Javy Vazquez, Kei Igawa, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown.

          Also, just because it doesn’t count towards the luxury tax, doesn’t mean it’s not real money, or that it won’t pull from the money that can be offered to future free agents and such.

    • Sweet Dick Willie says:

      either put in a bid to win, or dont even play the game

      Or, you could put in a bid that, based upon the information your organization has acquired, you feel that player is worth to your organization.

      • CS Yankee says:

        +1

        You could lead the contract discussions with…
        a) I know you expect big bucks so we keep the money for you and not your former team.
        b) Don’t expect a huge mega contract though…as you know we had the highest bid and it didn’t take the moon to get you here…let’s make some money together and get you playing for the greatest team in any sport.

  45. mbonzo says:

    Yankees clearly meant to say $51 million and someone accidentally wrote down $15m.

  46. Steve S. says:

    Reading this comment section two weeks later is just amazing. Wow.

  47. Steve S. says:

    Let’s have some fun. Out of all the dumb things said in this thread, pick out your favorite. The one comment that strikes you as the most knee jerk, whining, crybaby, absurd thing you’ve read. The grand prize winner.

    • Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

      This. Nothing irks me more that people who basically say they won’t support the team if the franchise doesn’t do exactly as they wish.

      mryankee says:
      December 20, 2011 at 5:38 pm

      Well we are lucky we get suck ass Burnett, Totally overhyped hughes and BP Garcia. I will not pay one dime for a ticket to this joke.

  48. Esteban says:

    Why even bid at all then? Why not bid $.01 like the Price is RIght?

  49. CJ says:

    If $15m was the winning bid we wouldn’t want him and hope they couldn’t work out a deal. Less than kei. It’s a joke, dont even bid!

  50. Rich in NJ says:

    I can understand that for budgetary reasons, or talent assessment in terms of risk/reward, they decided to pass on Darvish, but I won’t be able to understand directing any of that money to Edwin Jackson, unless it’s a one year deal.

  51. JJ says:

    Am I the only one who thinks the ‘Yankees are seriously in on Jackson’ talk was started and orchestrated by the Boras Corp? I can’t come up with one plausible reason why they would prefer Jackson on a 4+ year deal to Oswalt or Kuroda on a 1 year deal.

    • MannyGeee says:

      in case you didnt know, The Yankees are the ‘mystery team’ that Scott Boras’ camp introduces every time bidding is not where Boras thinks it should be…

      Unless of course the Yankees are actively involved in the bidding, in which case its the Nippon Ham Fighters.

      Everything Boras is a shell game, plain and simple.

  52. Jumpin' Jack Swisher says:

    Yu Darvish is so 2011.

  53. ND Mike says:

    After paging though some of the original comments, I can’t help but wonder if anyone some people understand what competitive balance is. They payroll is not unlimited even though people think this is fantasy baseball. There are limits.

  54. China Joe says:

    Here’s a brief list of the people Cashman was trying to insult with his $15 million bid:
    - we fans
    - the ghost of George Steinbrenner
    - Yu Darvish
    - Yu Darvish’s agent
    - all of Japanese baseball
    - the emperor of Japan
    - the memory of Mike Flanagan

  55. Jake says:

    Based on nothing other than what I’ve read and my gut, I think the Yanks will end up regretting not making a stronger push for Darvish. But even if he becomes an ace, the franchise will be fine. Hardly crippling.

    • Guest says:

      The Yankees may live to regret it, true. And I wanted “Yu” just as much as many Yankee fans.

      But I have to say, I really like this new approach. Spend on quality. They went hard after Lee, had the best bid, and just didn’t get him. I feel like they will do the same with premier free agents. But there is no point in repeating the mistake made with AJ: spending too much in dollars or years on less than a sure thing.

      From where I sit, the plan looks like this:
      1. Draft well and sign international free agents (this part of the plan has taken a huge hit with the new rules)

      2. Develop and keep those young players

      3. Promote those young players to the majors and use them as valuable low cost assets (see Gardner and D-Rob for examples of two highly valuable players whose roles would have been filled by more expensive but not necessarily more effive veterans in the past).

      4. Resist the urge to spend on free agents who may be at the top of their free agent class, but aren’t sure things; save the cash for the truly elite free agents who still have years left in their prime.

      This makes sense to me. Of course, this all gets blown out of the water if they do in fact sign Edwin Jackson for too many dollars and too many years. We’ll see.

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