Yankees agree to sign Hiroki Kuroda
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(AP Photo/Mark J. Terrill)
Rotation problem? What rotation problem? Less than an hour after acquiring Michael Pineda from the Mariners, the Yankees agreed to sign Hiroki Kuroda to a one-year deal worth $10M according to Jack Curry and Joel Sherman. The right-hander still has to pass his physical, and Buster Olney says Hal Steinbrenner approved an expanded budget to sign him. The Yankees will not have to give up a draft pick.
I, and really all of us at RAB are Kuroda fans and have been pining for him this offseason, so it goes without saying that we like the contract. Kuroda isn’t a star but he’s a rock solid veteran pitcher that will give the team innings and a chance to win basically every time out. He misses bats (7.23 K/9 and 19.4 K% last two years), limits walks (2.19 BB/9 and 5.9 BB%), and gets ground balls (47.1%), so he does everything someone needs to do to succeed in a tough environment.
It’s worth noting that Russell Martin knows Kuroda from his Dodgers days, so that should help the right-hander with the adjustment to the new league, the tougher ballpark, basically everything. Also, the Yankees recently hired Kenji Nimura, who was Kuroda’s translator with the Dodgers (caption of picture #10). He’ll have a similar role here, so that should help as well. Apparently he speaks fluent Spanish and Japanese, so I doubt he was brought in specifically for Kuroda, especially since the hiring occurred earlier this offseason.
It sounds crazy given where they were a few hours ago, but the Yankees now actually have a ton of pitching depth. Pineda and Kuroda will join CC Sabathia and Ivan Nova in the rotation, leaving A.J. Burnett, Freddy Garcia, and Phil Hughes to duke it out for the fifth starter’s spot. A trade is always possible, but pitching depth is never a bad thing.
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The site just got slow cause the sky is falling!!!
Holy crap, two pitchers in just an hour. Well, I am speechless.
Wait so who is the odd man out? Is AJ getting traded for a bag of balls?
Either AJ gets dumped (I’m hoping) or Hugues and Freddie to pen to start season…
Meow!
Yeah so Im not worried about the Yankees starting pitching anymore. lol
now I’m worried about the offense going forward.
There is more going on…too many SP’s and a gap in the lineup…
CC
Pineda
Kuroda
Garcia
???
I really hope the Yankees trade AJ for whatever they can get. Nova and/or Hughes need to be in this rotation.
Don’t forget Nova!!!!
To me: Don’t forget to read the entire post!!! (Sorry)
Meow!
Try
CC
Pineda
Kuroda
Nova
Garcia/Hughes/Burnett
Trade Garcia now. (assuming AJ is impossible or really expensive).
Sadly, I think yanks will have to eat salary to move Freddy.
Zero chance they move freddy
Nova will be in it.
this evening is like christmas part deux. so excellent.
Looks like Hughes is heading back to the bullpen.
Prince!
I have been screaming about prince since pujols came to AL. I did not believe Hal was meeting with boras about Jackson. Team reevaluating payroll to add Kuroda, I doubt it.
lol bro
typical arrogant yankee fan, we can’t just sign everyone just because.
this is why other team’s fans hate us
I think they’re more upset about the 27 championships thing.
This.
Just like they could NEVER sign all three of Sabathia, Burnett and Teixeira, right?
Sabathia
Pineda
Kuroda
Nova
Garcia
This basically means that that yankees at some point are going to eat a majority of Burnett’s contract and cut their losses, while banishing Hughes to the Bullpen…
AJ to mop up?
Hughes to the 6th???
Hughes has to be 5th starter. Too much upside and another power arm.
Freddy’s gotta go
AJ move is too complicated to know
the 5 best starters will start the 6th guy will go to the bull pen.
AJ plus 30MM traded for nothing in particular to the _________?
How about the Nationals, or the Pirates, they love our starting pitching rejects.
Who knows where he could land
Get Prince’s fat ass on a jet to new york now.
And where is another 20 mill per year coming from?
You’re kidding right?
Probably from the $150 minimum it costs to go to Yankee stadium…
See you later AJ! Hope we at least get a hot dog vendor in return!
My head just exploded. Guess it’s a three way battle for no. 5 spot unless someone is traded?
hallaluah..holy shit! where’s the tylenol!
I got a membership in the jelly of the month club.
So what happens next? Hughes to the pen, AJ traded? I’m not crazy about giving on Hughes the SP, since that’s what this essentially means, but he’s had his chances.
And you’d think AJ will be gone too. There’s not really a spot for him in the pen (unless he takes Noesi’s longman/mopup guy role?) and there’s so much depth at AAA that they don’t really need to worry about keeping him around as insurance.
WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING??!!!
My sentiments exactly.
I’ll get over it by, well, tomorrow, but I really just want to crawl in the fetal position and suck on a pacifier tonight.
I miss you, Jesus.
Cash can’t develop his own starters so he traded for one unfortunately it cost us Montero.
Serously…you’re dragging out this tired narrative?
Sadly, yes.
Oh I forgot Cash is great never makes a bad mood
move*
Am i wrong? name the consistent starter he developed. The last one was 14 yrs ago and Andy wasn’t drafted by him.
Chien-ming Wang says Hi. If he wasn’t injured in a fluke baserunning incident I think he’d still be in pinstripes right now and be thriving.
Wang doesn’t count he started for like 4 yrs. The injury is not their fault but they fucked up the rehab. Go ahead name someone else.
Wang doesn’t count because he fucks up your premise. Fact: Wang was a consistent starter. Fact: Wang was developed by the Yankees. That his career was altered by injury has nothing to do with either.
No it doesn’t fit because he didn’t start long enough for the team. You have ppl on here that give them credit for Kennedy which is a big fucking joke.
So what happens next? Hughes to the pen, AJ traded? I’m not crazy about giving up on Hughes the SP, since that’s what this essentially means, but he’s had his chances.
And you’d think AJ will be gone too. There’s not really a spot for him in the pen (unless he takes Noesi’s longman/mopup guy role?) and there’s so much depth at AAA that they don’t really need to worry about keeping him around as insurance.
Mike said that Hughes probably has an option left. If that’s the case, then sending him to AAA would be a great move. AJ can go to the pen, giving the Yankees the most expensive pen in the history of the game.
exactly my thoughts, I would not be surprised if hughes or nova gets traded to fill that void at DH. Think about it, with sabathia, pineda, kuroda, and garcia, you have one rotation spot plus a possible longman job in the bullpen. They won’t get anything of value in a trade with a.j., so it seems that hughes and nova could be traded soon to fill that gap. If I were the yankees, I would keep nova.
I have to agree with you, and I’m surprised so few people have picked up on the possibility of Nova being traded. Now, if one of Nova or Hughes are traded, it’s basically selling high on Nova, selling low on Hughes. So it would not surprise me if Nova gets traded, but it would be for someone really good.
Or they could just keep the cheap/young mid-rotation starter. I can’t see him bringing back anything as valuable as that.
I’ve actually talked to a lot of people and written a post or two suggesting that the Yanks might look to move Nova. But people were not really buying the idea too much.
The Yankees have to be trading Burnett now, right?
RIGHT?
That’s what I’m thinking — how can you go into spring training with him battling for a job?
i keep reading the sox thread b/c RAB is so slow.
sox fans are crapping right now.
after the pineda announcement one poster said..ok Ben…go get Kuroda!
lol
which thread did you go to?
When are the Yankees gonna go out and get pitching?
/last 2 months’d
Something else must be brewing. Could the Hughes era be over already?
Carlos Pena back with Kevin Long wouldn’t be so bad.
Possibility. Didn’t they try to trade for him this summer?
I’d do it. That would be one hell of a backup at first.
I believe that they tried to claim him off waivers, but he was taken back.
I wonder what the cubs are sending us for Hughes and AJ
im never gonna doubt cash money again. he has his WTF are u doing moments but this is why he is one of the best gms in the game!!
Its like the end of the “Godfather”. Next thing is Mo getting a bullet in the eyeball. Green, not Rivera.
AJ Burnett for chicken beer!
Teh interwebs are sploding. So is my head. What a night.
A day that will live in infamy. The trade will either be Jay Buhner 2, or Grandy for IPK 2.
If we sign Fielder I will literally collapse.
Still unsure how I feel about the Montero-Pineda trade. But definitely liking the signing of Kuroda.
Dear RAB, you need more servers to handle traffic during crazy days like this!
This is like a late Christmas, we are literally being showered in Pitchers…Santa Cash delivering Yankee wishes since 2005
Two questions: Who’s the DH? Room for Cespedes on the roster?
That’s what Im thinking. There has to be a pitching move, and a dh move. Think Cashman really wants Nunez starting a bunch. Short term basis, yeah, but not for a whole season.
Why are you so high on Cespedes? His asking price is the $7M a year range. A lot for someone unproven.
CC
Pineda
Kuroda
Nova
Garcia
Hughes to the ‘pen. Bye AJ, thanks for ’09.
Why is everyone putting Garcia ahead of Hughes for the 5th rotation spot? I for one would much rather have Hughes and Burnett in front of Garcia. It’s much easier to eat the 1.5M Garcia is owed than a majority of Burnett’s contract. I also trust Hughes more than Garcia.
Garcia signed for $4M.
Garcia has been reliable. Sure, his upside isn’t as “sexy” as Phil’s but you know what you’re getting with Freddy. Sure, Freddy won’t strike out 8 over five or six, but he’ll get you those five or six innings and keep you in the game. Phil, at this point, isn’t a sure bet to make it out of the third.
What is Hughes’ realistic trade value? I wouldn’t mind seeing Hughes and Burnett traded. Burnett no matter what, just for a fresh start. Hughes if they can get something of value either now or in the future in return.
I would take Hughes’ upside over what his trade value is right now. AJ if he made the league minimum wouldn’t be worth his roster spot currently, so trade him if you can but there is no reason to get rid of Hughes just for the sake of doing so – keep the depth and let him battle with Garcia in ST.
Don’t forget that Noesi is gone as well.
Yeah, it depends on what he could bring back, but I don’t think I could justify starting him over Garcia, and perhaps he could be more valuable to another team as a starter than to us as a long man. I would rather have the semi-unknowns of Phelps or Warren than Hughes as the long man at this point.
I know I’m lower on Hughes than most.
Not a fan of it. Don’t believe in him succeeding here. Can’t wait to see them use all the old guys and send nova back down to the minors.
Just when I’m starting to think the organization is thinking long term and I like the quietness of the offseason, these things happen.
They just traded for a 23 yr old pitcher . Nova isn’t losing his spot. Hughes probably will though. They could always trade Garcia to NL too
And to get that 23 YO pitcher they traded a 24 YO pitcher and a 22 YO hitter.
And everyone said Nova wouldn’t lose his spot last year when Hughes came back. I have zero faith in this front office and development staff doing the ‘right’ thing.
And also got back a another prospect. It was 2 for 2, no?
Jose Campos was the Mariners #5 prospect and Baseball America’s Ben Badler has tweeted this about him:
“Jose Campos would be a huge piece in this deal. Electric fastball.”
“Montero and Pineda will rightfully get the bulk of the attention, but getting Campos could pay off big time down the road for the Yankees.”
“No. 2 starter is likely ceiling. Could move quickly. RT @Hopjake what is Campos’s ceiling?”.
Let’s ignore that and just pretend it was Montero and Noesi for Pineda.
Sorry, misspoke in my last reply, not that they should barely exist in baseball, that they should barely exist in considerations like this.
And good, that sounds just like Hughes and Joba. But I’m sure he won’t just be another two pitch pitcher, though they took care of that part anyway with Pineda.
Not all 19 year old pitchers are the same. Some are better prospects than others and you have to take that into consideration.
Prospects who are 19 YO in low A should barely even exist in baseball. They are so far away that it almost doesn’t even matter, especially the way the Yankees typically handle their young pitchers.
So you never complained about Arodys Vizcaino for Javy Vazquez then? Hope not.
Nope, do a search. I complained about trading anything for Vazquez because I knew he’d be terrible again.
But who cares about 19 year old pitchers right? Since they don’t matter, trading Vizcaino was the right move even with hindsight, right?
Huh? I said they don’t really matter to me. So trading him doesn’t matter either way. The fact was that getting Vazquez is a net loss no matter what was given for him.
They are. That’s why it’s a one year deal. One of the young guys should be ready for 2013.
Ah, 2013, when they’ll spend another $150 million on a pitcher moving past his prime.
Someone doesn’t seem to understand how baseball works.
YOu’re right, because I don’t want them to continue signing old expensive pitchers to block young cheap pitchers, it means I have no idea how baseball works.
They refuse to trade all these guys because they’re the ‘future’ of the team, then they go and sign pitchers like this and Garcia every year, and use pitchers like Mitre and Brian Gordon every year.
Remind me to to sign up for your motivational classes at the Ramada Inn this year.
Throwing an idea out there I can see the Yankees trading AJ to the braves (who had an interest in him in 2009)and getting Martin Prado who if im not mistaken was being shopped at the beginning of the off season. You can then rotate the DH because of Prado’s versatility.
Braves don’t need AJ. They already dumped Lowe and still have something like eight contenders for the rotation.
The Braves already dumped an overpriced pitcher.. I don’t think they want a new one
Braves are against a hard salary limit…Prado – $4.3M/yr, AJ – $16.5M…The Yankees would have to eat way too much on that deal, plus AJ would block one of the Braves pitchers they want to move up.
The Yankees would have to eat way too much on that deal
What?!
If you told me the Yankees were getting rid of Burnett and the other team was paying almost $5 for him per year I would consider that a huge win. Even if they got no other players back – but in this dream scenario they would actually get someone useful.
You missed the part that he would block a young starter. That’s why the Braves are trying to trade JJ.
The Jorge Vasquez era begins as p/t DH, back up 1st baseman, power bat off the bench.
I think there’s some of us that will need a few days to digest Pineda/Montero, to the chagrin of those commenters who think we’re a bunch of assholes because we’re not jumping up and down right away, but what’s done is done.
Independent of Montero, Nova/Pineda will be an interesting duo to watch.
I still love Kuroda as placeholder for Banuelos or Betances.
My hunch? Hughes stays. Only room for so many of Warren/Phelps/Mitchell. Garcia quietly gets sent somewhere else. Burnett dons a chicken suit and becomes the first Yankee mascot since Highlander Harry.
Garcia can’t be traded for a few months. He’s not going anywhere.
I’m looking forward to having two good, young pitchers to watch for the next 5 years. One is a potentially great pitcher. Pineda is young.
True on Garcia.
The Montero part stings more than the Pineda part, at least right now. Like I said, my hope is that both teams are smiling from this trade five years from now.
If Pineda and Nova continue to build upon what we’ve seen thus far, and don’t regress, this is going to all look very nice.
Yeah, I’m still digesting this trade.
I don’t know what I think of it yet. Pined being young and the only player to establish dominance in MLB makes it seem like the Yankees “won”, but that just balances out the loss of my expectation of seeing Jesus rake in NY for the next 6 years. I was never high on Noesi and Campos is intriguing to me.
Pineda’s top 3 comps on B-R (admittedly, not a great barometer) for Pineda are Beckett, Halladay, and Jack McDowell by the way. If that turns out to be accurate, this will be a slam dunk for the Yankees.
I keep on saying “only one season” to myself when looking at this guy.
It’s not lost on me that Montero has even less big league experience, but there’s a lot of comparisons and numbers being thrown around on Pineda, and its just one season.
What’s done is done. I hope he becomes a combination of all three of those. I will break his kneecaps if we regret this trade.
I like the threat of violence accompanied by the winky face.
I’ve been surprisingly taken too seriously before.
I think Garcia stays. I believe one reason they kept him around is to continue his mentoring of Nova.
Something is fucking wrong when I agree word for word.
I think Freddy stays in the rotation. He’s like having a knuckleballer in between all the hard throwers. I don’t see how AJ can be traded with his contract — but I can see Hughes being farmed out for uber-depth or them trading his 3 mil away for prospect depth in an area of need, like the outfield.
Why are people pretending there will be a huge void at DH? There are old dudes on the team that need that spot to hopefully stay healthy.
They opened up the logjam at DH.
The comparison is:
DH old guys, have Nunez play vs. rest old guy have Nunez and someone like Pena (for example).
Pretty much a wash, but they have the ability to have a good DH even when all the starters are playing. The only player who would hit better than a theoretical DH (like Pena) is Arod. Jeter should never DH.
Exactly!
I like this new Rainbow Connection, actually engaging and making real substantive comments instead of taking potshots and trolling.
Burnett will be gone and Hughes and Garcia will battle for the 5th spot in the rotation with the loser being the long man out of the bullpen. I really do think a DH move is still to come but I really dont think it will be Fielder
Must be nice to have an ownership that’s actually committed to winning baseball games.
We need to have a livechat like right now. This is too much.
Love this idea. I imagine it’d be like the town hall meetings of 2009. Just confusion, anger, and raw emotion everywhere.
Not sure I get this big worry about the DH spot, seems fairly obvious to me:
Nunez plays the field on days that Jeter and Cano DH, Chavez plays the field on days that A-Rod and Teixeira DH, while Jones and Chavez split the rest of the time at DH.
Sure, I miss Montero already and will be a little sad when I see him in a Mariners uniform, but I’m not going to cry about having a very cheap arm that at worst will be a solid 3/4 with the potential to be a 1/2. Truth is that Montero wasn’t a great fit, even if we loved his bat.
Cairo’s take on the trade
http://www.rlyw.net/index.php/.....eda_campos
Sox respond by inviting Varitek to spring training..
its on you for the next move, Cashman!
By gawd, they’re playing Posada’s music!
/JR’d
+1
i guess i feel a little good about this, a little bittersweet though as i was looking forward to watching montero mash for years to come.
There has to be another move or two before the season starts to address the excess depth (depth is one thing but the Yankees have Hughes, Garcia, Burnett, Warren, Phelps, Mitchell, and to a lesser extent Banuelos, and Betances as legitimate starting options at some point in the season. I see value in having 6, 7, 8, or even nine starters but the Yanks are closer to ten or eleven. Also, now we could a DH, maybe Pena on a one year deal? Or something along those lines?
or in my dream world, Fielder decides to sign a one year deal for some odd reason and Hal decides to ok the expanded budget to accomodate Fielder and the Yankees go to town owning the rest of the league.
Pineda has some interesting numbers. Gave up 9 homers at home and on the road, but had 2 more starts but a higher era on the road 4.4 to 2.9. Here’s the number I like whip of 1.1. Montero is untouchable only if he can catch. Offense can always be acquired at dh.
Surpised people are talking about the DH role so much. Just bring back Matsui.
Yeah, his zero WAR will add so much to the team.
Don’t forget Kuroda is on a one year deal.Nova and Hughes are going nowhere,Now Burnett….
well, now the Yanks have someone to get Nick Punto out!
How would you guys feel about a Adam Dunn/AJ Burnett bad contract swap? The salaries are pretty darn close. Dunn has 3/39 left, AJ 2/36.
i’d sign up for that in a NY minute…perhaps we can catch kenny williams in one of those moments
If this was facebook i’d click the like button… makes sense for both teams and the yanks might be able to get the sox to pay 6mil to even it all out
I’d think about it, but it won’t happen because Dunn would impact the 2014 austerity budget. Burnett will not.
Exactly what I was going to say. The extra year is pretty big dealbreaker if the austerity budget part is true. Plus it adds salary in a year where luxury tax penalties increase so it would take money from the White Sox to make it work and I doubt they would eat money.
Do you really have to insist on calling $189 million ‘austerity’ every change you get?
I was just thinking of an AJ-Carlos Lee bad contract swap, but Dunn might be better.
Sick roation…but there is a hole in the lineup unless you expect more from A-Rod which I’ve kinda grown not to do
I think his .300/30/100 days are behind him but if he can manage .285/25/90, I’d be happy.
Oh RBIs?
A DH who can mash is a much easier hole to fill than a young AL proven cost-controlled pitcher. Especially because for this team, the DH hole is like half-filled already, where the pitching hole was gaping.
Damon???
yeah
A write on Jose Campos:
Jose Campos 19-years-old, starting pitcher, Short Season Everett
I have talked about (and with) Campos a few times in the past couple of months already. A product of Venezuela with a big fastball and good mound presence playing in a league with much older competition in 2011, he already is drawing comparisons to King Felix Hernandez. The AquaSox even had a “Campos’ Court” promotion in his final home start this year at Everett Memorial. His 2.32 ERA and 0.97 WHIP helped earn him
Like his fellow countryman, this right-hander is relying heavily on his fastball at this point in his development. Everett Pitching Coach Andrew Lorraine said, “Developmentally, he is pretty close to everyone else we have here; he just has a better arm,”. Indeed, that fastball regularly sits 93-95 and reaches the high-90s at times with good arm-side run and sink when he keeps it low in the zone. He also throws a breaking ball that isn’t very consistent in command or velocity right now, though he was making advancements in those areas later in the season. His changeup also improved dramatically throughout the season and could be the key to how good Campos can become, much like Felix.
A write on Jose Campos:
Jose Campos 19-years-old, starting pitcher, Short Season Everett
I have talked about (and with) Campos a few times in the past couple of months already. A product of Venezuela with a big fastball and good mound presence playing in a league with much older competition in 2011, he already is drawing comparisons to King Felix Hernandez. The AquaSox even had a “Campos’ Court” promotion in his final home start this year at Everett Memorial. His 2.32 ERA and 0.97 WHIP helped earn him
Like his fellow countryman, this right-hander is relying heavily on his fastball at this point in his development. Everett Pitching Coach Andrew Lorraine said, “Developmentally, he is pretty close to everyone else we have here; he just has a better arm,”. Indeed, that fastball regularly sits 93-95 and reaches the high-90s at times with good arm-side run and sink when he keeps it low in the zone. He also throws a breaking ball that isn’t very consistent in command or velocity right now, though he was making advancements in those areas later in the season. His changeup also improved dramatically throughout the season and could be the key to how good Campos can become, much like Felix.
He showed very good control and had plus command at times in 2011, but the command of the secondary offerings will be another key to Campos’ continued success as he advances through the organization. He, too, should see Clinton in 2012 and could end up being the type of arm that skips a level at some point. That said, he is at least two full seasons away from being a legitimate big league option for Seattle.
In on Peña now. Head. Is. Exploding.
According to my IPhone MLBTR notification, Carlos Pena’s on “the radar.” May a wayward ball NEVER make it down the first base line again.
Don’t be surprised if Aaron Cook wins more games that Kuroda and Pineda combined…
Hello Peter…what about Silva?
The Nakajima bidding now would had made sense if Montero was traded earlier, and A-Rod to DH. So hmm, now the question remains who will fill the DH void?
Prince is my repeated guess. Hal boras is my clue.
AJ for Dunn is interesting. Soriano? Rios?
FA Carlos Pena and Damon are possibilities
Dunn for Burnett yes please!! Not sure i’m sold on the kuroda deal
that is intresting
Jose Campos seems like quite the extra pickup. He’s a legit prospect with a shot at being a major part of a rotation if a couple things break right. With some luck, he could make any difference between Montero and Pineda disappear.
indeed…he’s better than Noesi.
This tweet is ridiculous. https://twitter.com/#!/himynameisbrew/status/158018428966408193
lol. I love how there’s ridiculous whining from people no matter what kind of move the Yankees make. It’s not as if they went out and threw another $100 million contract at someone.
And I follow the guy just as he follows me. I’m not happy I have to say good bye to Jesus, but I wouldn’t go that far.
unless they sign prince to dh this doesn’t make sense. Kuroda was all they needed now they just have a surplus of pitchers. The rotation with kuroda and noesi would have been fine until july when betances and manny could have helped or made a trade then once jesus was exposed to more big league action. Jesus is gonna be something special and pined tired out at end of last year. I don’t like this deal right now but happy with kuroda signing.
Pineda is a 22 year old pitcher who threw 170ish innings last season in the majors last season. That in itself is something special. The fact that he struck out over a batter per inning is just icing on the cake.
Now its being reported that the Yankees are sniffing around Carlos Pena to fill Montero’s shoes! (facepalm)
Lot of reporters commenting how execs around the league think the Pineda/Montero trade was a huge win for the Yanks. Young cheap pitching > young cheap hitting, especially when said hitter doesn’t have a true position besides DH. Please detach yourselves from the Montero love affair and view the trade objectively. Pineda’s addition to the rotation is more valuable than Montero’s addition to the lineup. Trade from a strength to shore up a weakness. Don’t sleep on Campos, if there was an amateur draft today he’d be a top 10 pick. Mariners fans are devastated they traded him away.
CC – Pineda – Kuroda – Nova – Garcia. AJ Burnett is donezo and Hughes will be in the pen. The rotation just went from a huge weakness to a strength in the span of 2 hours. If Cashman was a ninja before, he’s officially graduated to master sensei now.
have the yanks ever signed this high level of quality pitching in one off season – CC, Pineda and Kuroda?
Well, if you count CC no they haven’t …. but I wouldn’t quite call that a true signing. Still, these two additions within the span of 2 hours represent a massive upgrade for the rotation. Post season rotation of CC Pineda Kuroda & Nova inspires infinitely more confidence than our rotation did last season.
i count it…CC could’ve left.
CC, AJ, Pettitte????
I have no love affair with Montero, I was all for them trading him because of Girardi, but I wanted a trade for something better. Not another two-pitch pitcher who will just be another Hughes in a year or two and another Burnett in a few more years.
This signing helps the bullpen because, they now have a middle to end of the rotation pitcher who can give them 200 innings. So less need for middle relief. Hopefully they don’t need 13 pitchers on the roster all year.
they carried 12 most of last season
So we basically replaced Burnett and Hughes with Pineda and Kuroda
Burnett + Hughes (Fans estimations on FG) = 3.3 WAR
Pineda + Kuroda = 7.5 WAR
So basically we added 4 wins just to next season in the rotation. That’s huge. Yeah, we lost some in Montero but how much did anybody think that Montero was going to play in the field next season anyhow? It would be a hard thing for him to be a 4 win player as the DH
its even more than that.
This allows Hughes and the other youngsters to continue their development.
And, now CC and Pineda are both under team control for 6 years. This rotation is setting up for long term success and I can’t remember the last time I could say that about the Yanks…even in the late 90s.
What is their $/WAR?
And lost offense in Montero, lost offense in playing Nunez more often, lost pitching in Noesi, lost roster flexibility, and lost opportunity to see their young pitchers for yet another year.
And you’re not getting Safeco Pineda, you’re getting YS Pineda. Not the same thing. I think they’re a worse team now than they were a few hours ago.
And lost offense in Montero, lost offense in playing Nunez more often, lost pitching in Noesi,
Gained pitching in Pineda. Pineda>>> Noesi. Sorry.
I just don’t beleive that two-pitch Pineda will be anything more than Hughes or Burnett in the long run.
Except Pineda has more command of his fastball at age 22 than AJ Burnett ever did in his entire major league career?
just ignore the 2 pitch Clayton Kershaw or two pitch (prior to 2010) Josh Beckett, or James Shields prior to 2007 was a two pitch pitcher, or David Price he’s basically all FB
Most starting pitchers especially those with power arms come up as 2 two pitchers before starting to incorporate there other pitches
I’d love me some of that. Dunn would smack 70 homers in Yankee Stadium. (+ the KL effect). Whose contract is worth more?
The Red Sox just avoided arbitration with Ryan Sweeny.
Move: Countered.
you just wait…Lavarnaway straight up for King Felix
BOOM!
In the absence of any more trades (now) this is what I think happens:
The Yankees try and trade Brunett, and more than likely will fail. They break camp with CC, Nova, Pineda, Garcia and Brunett. Hughes takes over Joba’s role till he comes back (doesnt make sense to have AJ fill that role, since he cannot throw strikes). If Brunett sucks, they unload him for some NL contender and stretch Hughes out for the rotation.
If Brunett does not suck and Hughes is as he was in ’09 – first half of ’10, they still trade Brunett for some position player, if possible.
What, is Kuroda going to pitch the 6th?
Kuroda will DH.
I’m in favor of AJ for Dunn straight up. Money is close to even. If not, Pena sounds great.
Sorry mis-wrote replace Garcia with Kuroda…Garcia takes the place of Hector Noesi
From the Boston Globe blog:
bosoxtw16 wrote:
CHERINGTON SUCKS CHERINGTON SUCKS CHERINGTON SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1/13/2012 9:51 PM EST
Sound familiar?
A Pena/Jones platoon at DH would mash.
I would much rather have Pena than Betemit. Obviously there are more options than those two, but those are the two names I see bandied about. (Yes, bandied)
I would much rather pick up a big bat to DH rather than a lesser bat who can play more in the field.
unfortunately, I have a feeling with Kuroda signed, Yankees won’t expand the budget enough to sign Pena as well. In that case, Betemit isn’t a horrible alternative – hits righties fairly well, can fake some 3B
I don’t think Pena will cost much. Coupled with the fact that he would be a huge upgrade over their current DH (…anyone?) I think it makes enough sense.
im shocked how negative the reaction is…i think Cashman just hosed the Settle Mariners in big way. People care about Noesi???? the prospect we just got in the Pineda trade has quadruple the upside of Nosei. LOVE THIS MOVE and Kuroda just makes this team filthy good. who cares about a DH thats the most worthless position on a baseball team. andruw jones could be the DH and Yanks offense would easily be top 3 in baseball.
Oh dear.
Campos is in High-A. Noesi spent half the year in the majors.
It’s also amazing how far someone’s stock can drop in the span of a couple of hours. Just a DH….
Montero’s always been just a DH. Or are all of the scouts in MLB wrong in suggesting he can’t catch long term? It’s obviously the Yankees have been trying to sneakily keep the perception alive that he could catch, and finally traded him before that was completely exposed. I’m going to miss Montero but he really didn’t have a true position.
Young starting pitching is always better than young hitting. Pineda is 22 and has a successful year under his belt – there’s not many pitchers who can make that claim. Campos is only 19 and is a great prospect. Noesi was a slightly above average pitcher – we already have tons of those.
*shakes head*
reality is calling … it’s asking that you please remove the rose montero themed glasses.
Even if you thought he COULD eventually catch, we’re acquiring a pitcher who we already KNOW can pitch.
There’s a whole lot in between “just a DH” and “reality is calling, remove the rose-colored glasses.”
It was ‘rose montero themed glasses’. If your gonna attempt to mock me with my own quotes, at least get it right dude. Insult fail.
Young starting pitching is only better than young hitting if it is good young starting pitching. Pineda has some warning signs and a second half slump in 2011. Was the league adjusting to him? How will a fly ball pitcher do at YSIII? We all loved Hughes and Joba but right now I think it’s safe to say Montero has more upsideb than either of them.
Montero is a DH, but DH has value. Look at what Ortiz did for Boston for all those years. Montero projects to be that good with the bat from everything I’ve seen and read.
this deal could work out great for the Yankees or wind up being a bust, but it is far from a no-brainer.
Montero projects to be good, but Pineda already has been good. Yes he had a 2nd half slump but the kid is 22 and it was his first year in the majors. It was pretty evident he tired down the stretch.
DH’s do have value, but a full time DH’s value on our team is extremely minimized because that is a spot where Arod and Texeira will have to occupy. Like it or not, those guys will need the DH in order to maximize their value. We also have 2 good catching prospects in Romine and Sanchez. Trading away a strength to sure up a weakness is a win. It’s infinitely easier to acquire an effective DH than it is to acquire and effective #2 starter. That is undebatable.
It’s a page out of the Sux playbook.
Casey Kelly was a sure-fire HOFer when he was their prospect, but was called a mid-rotation starter after the trade.
no, it’s called being realistic. I’ve always maintained that montero was a hitter without a position. if you were fooled to believe otherwise, then i’m sorry.
Noesi spent half the year in the majors and pitched ok. He’s no big loss for the Yankees especially with their depth at that kind of pitching.
Losing Montero hurts, and will for the next half decade. Noesi is no big loss to me.
With Freddy Garcia and a BEVY of AAA arms in the wings, I just can’t imagine both AJ and Hughes remain in pinstripes at the start of the season. Someone’s getting traded. Nobody is getting DFA’d off the 40-man, cut, whatever the term be.
Kuroda isnt even the star of the evening. He’s probably not even the star of this thread. We’re all reeling, but in a couple days, knowing Kuroda will take the #3 spot will make us all feel a hella of a lot better.
Burnett for Jason Bay?? Very similar money
Why?
Mainly bc of the money; it’s subtracting a guy who has sadly now become what? the longman? for a guy with power and obp potential? He’s had a rough stint with the Mets..but I still think he’s better than a 16mil longman
Jason Bay? Please god no. Burnett is extremely volatile, and although he can be awful he can also be decent / good at times. Bay is just always awful. There is no good mixed in.
BP Burnett for Adam Dunn. Git er done cash money.
I only worry about one thing…Pineda’s most poor starts were against AL East teams.
July 19 TOR (5 runs in 6.1 inn), July 24 BOS (7 runs in 4.1 inn), Aug 15 TOR (5 runs in 5 inn)
He had two other stand out bad start against DET and LAA.
This is a bit worrisome.
Oh by that metric, AJ Burnett should have continued to dominate AL East teams when the Yankees signed him, right?
Small sample size alert. Please don’t overreact to it.
No 3 starts as a 22 year old are definitive.
haha i legitimately laughed at that
The original argument of him being a great and projecting as a future ace is just based on his arm and a small sample as well. So the “small” sample argument goes through when you are arguing in favor of your position but falls flat when one argues against your position..very convenient.
A season is a bigger sample size than 3 starts against the AL East, no? Especially to say you’re worried that he won’t do well against the AL East.
“The original argument of him being a great and projecting as a future ace is just based on his arm and a small sample as well.”
Pinedas entire professional career = The last six full seasons = not a small sample.
1. A ton of pitchers struggle against the AL east.
2. It is a small sample size.
No problem with the signing of Kuroda. No risk really except money which the Yanks have. But to trade away the next Yankee great is unacceptable and I ain’t talking about Hector Noesi. And he didn’t even get King Felix in return. Yes you put CC, Kuroda, Pineda, Nova and Garcia in a rotation and good things will probably happen but Montero was a tremendous talent. Awful trade.
It’s incredibly silly that you anointed Montero the ‘next Yankee great’ after 70 plate appearances. Did Hughes and Joba receive the same anointing?
And Pineda’s not a tremendous talent? I understand being against the trade – hell, I still can’t even mentally process it enough to form a real opinion – but get real.
But if Pineda was drafted by the Yanks, Earp would lobby to have the Cy Young renamed the Michael Pineda.
So, since Kuroda is on a one year deal, Hamels still a target for next year? CC, Hamels, Pineda, Nova, Banuelos/Betances/sack of balls equals quite the rotation.
haha we can only hope. I can’t think of an adjective to describe how epic that rotation would be.
I don’t want to spoil anyones party,but the last young hitter we shipped to Seattle was Jay Buhner. Need I say more
KEN PHELPS!
There’s our DH!
Yeah you should say more because bringing up a trade made almost a quarter century ago is pretty f*cking stupid.
What about Russ Davis? Or are you only counting bad trades for the Yankee?
I laughed
A lot of people are wondering about our offense but fail to realize just how much better we got today.
Lineup- virtually identical to last years
Starting pitching – CC,Pineda,Kuroda,nova,Garica ( 10000000x better)
Bullpen now adds phil hughes and joba, with sori,drob,mo.
We have to be considered one of the best overall pitching staffs in the game with that starting five and that nasty, nasty bullpen.
Offense? not going to need much. Teams wont be scoring much on the 2012 yankees.
Teams didn’t score much on the 2011 Yankees either. Hence the reason their overall ERA was fourth in the AL.
Yeah but wouldn’t you agree we got just a little lucky with Colon and Garcia and the emergence of Nova? Nova could regress. Colon is gone. Garcia is a year older. Burnett inspires no confidence. Hughes has disappointed as a starter since the 1st half of 2010. Which leaves us with CC Sabathia. Kuroda gives us another solid option and Pineda is a risk with high reward. CC, Kuroda, Nova, Pineda, Hughes/Garcia is infinitely better than CC, Nova, Hughes, Garcia, Burnett.
I definitely agree. In terms of results, I just don’t know how much better the 2012 Yankees rotation will be than what they did in 2011. On paper, this group blows last year’s away.
could’ve agree with this any more. i’ve been stunned people are acting like we somehow lost this.
I’m stunned you don’t think we didn’t notice you replaced the “C” with a “J” in your screen name.
nope
I literally never post on here. Frequent reader infrequent poster. I know who your referring to and I’m not that person. But sure keep making blind guesses in the dark eventually you’ll hit with one.
Mom! Is that you?
nope
You figuratively never post on here, given the fact that you’re posting that comment.
We basically just retraded for Arodys, except without the injury concerns.
Hughes for Mark Trumbo?
Ha.
Hughes for Chas Headley?
I’d/we’d LOVE that but doubt SD moves him.
Although, maybe throw in Nunez & AJ (+99% of his $) and MAYBE they think about it.
Do better than that if you want the Padres’ best player.
And what is with all of the criticism towards pineda’s second half stats and his splits again AL East teams. Last time i checked, he was a 22 year old rookie with all the raw talent in the world. Why don’t you go check out king felix stats for his first few years in the bigs. Maybe people should focus on the fact that at the age of 22 he was able to throw 170+ innings with a 3.74 era.
Fact is, Montero was a luxury that was only going to complicate things for this team in the future. Now Martin can take over for a few years until its time for sanchez to take over as the next great yankee catcher.
A young core built around Cano,Pineda, Killer B’s, Nova, Sanchez,just to name a few, sounds pretty good to me.
Gary Sanchez is still in sing…..never mind.
A young core built around Cano,Pineda, Killer B’s, Nova, Sanchez,just to name a few, sounds pretty good to me.
—————-
lol Good luck with that the Yankees will trade most of those guys away
^ Montero had no spot on this team for the present or the future that was not the DH Spot. I understand people love the guy and have followed him for a long time… but you cant build a franchise/ Dynasty around a prolific DH. We can always get bats, We now have a ton, and i mean a ton of cheap, young pitchers with all the upside in the world.
We now have a ton, and i mean a ton of cheap, young pitchers with all the upside in the world.
—————————–
Too bad they are under the watchful eye of the Yankees.
FINALLY, YES WE GOT OUR NEXT STARTER!!!
CC, Kuroda, Nova, Burnett, Garcia. Boom. Pineda closes out the 8th by the ASB when we give up on development on him as a starter because he’ll struggle like every other young pitcher.
I’ll enjoy that while Montero hits bombs. We at least got 6 hoemrs as a Yankee. Fare thee well Jesus. First prospect lvoe, first heartbreak. Friday the fucking 13th. Fuck, fuck fuck.
I think Prince is on the board now.
Pena, Damon, Vlad
what about a Phil Hughes-Chase Headley trade?
Dom Brown-Betances plus
Seth Smith-prospects
Carlos Quentin traded on the cheap would’ve looked really good right now
People have very short memories. Last year we got bounced in the playoffs because the lack of offense. This is true. However, remember the season before? we got eliminated because we didn’t have a pitching staff that could contain/ slow down the rangers. The playoffs are always a crapshoot. At the end of the day, you always go with great pitching first. Just look at what tampa has done with their horrid offense and a amazing pitching staff.
Great pitching is a myth. It’s whoever is hot. The Braves with the greatest rotation in mankind won one championship, the Phillies lost in the NLDS and the Rays lost immediately for two years now.
The Giants got hot at the exact time to win it all. Pitching = championship is a flat out myth.
No we traded someone who was about to net us Cliff Lee for another unproven but at a position where it’s completely unpredictable. I’m glad we got Kuroda but if we were close to signing him why the fuck did we give away Jesus?
Because Jesus is more unproven that Pineda is. Pineda has one successful season under his belt, Montero has 70 plate appearances to his name. How many 22 year old pitchers have had successful seasons in MLB? How many times have said pitchers been acquirable? It’s much easier to replace a hitter who projected to be a DH (albeit a great one) than it is to replace a front line starter (who also projects to be a great one). This argument is compounded when you consider that our DH spot will be needed for Tex & Arod.
Top pitxhing prospects always have one good season. If you’re Prior, or Joba or Hughes, or liek frickin Strasburg you’ve flashed greatness. Very rare that you’ll see sustained greatness.
Let’s see the top 15 pitching prospects in 2009.
1 David Price
2 Madison Bumgarner
3 Brett Anderson
4 Rick Porcello
5 Derek Holland
6 Neftali Feliz
7 Jarrod Parker
8 Trevor Cahill
9. Brian Matusz
10 Tommy Hanson
11 Chris Tillman
12 Tim Alderson
13 Jordan Zimmermann
14 Jhoulys Chacin
15. Brett Cecil
A vast majority of these guys have had injury concerns or just sucked. Top pitching prospects are the riskiest things in baseball. All have shown potential, people loved Brian Matusz and most of these guys will flame out.
Pineda is just as unproven but plays a riskier long term position. And a power bat is going to be a huge needs in the next couple years. Jorge is out, ARod is going weaker by the year, Jeter can’t be relied to hit .300 and get on base .370 of the time, and Swish is likely out. We’ve got Teix who’s had two not elite years, Cano and Grandy. Wow.
uh do you realize that more than half of those pitchers are having success in the majors?
Price, bumgarner, anderson, holland, feliz, cahill, hanson, zimmerman. I mean that’s what, more than half the list? Prospects in general are risky. How’s Wily Mo Pena doing these days?
There’s also a massive difference between ‘a prospect’, and a guy who has had a successful season in the majors like Pineda has.
Your spot on about all of those guys getting older and deteriorating, which is exactly the reason why we need the DH spot open and available, and not permanently occupied. Imagine in 2 years if we had to play Jeter, Arod, and Tex every day at their positions in the field. THat spells disaster.
Sorry, they’re having success yes but when we give up a top 5 prospect I expect top 5 results. While there’s no doubt Rick Porcello is a good pitcher since he even made it to the majors, he’s still not very good. If we developed him, it’s a great success. If we traded elite talent for someone to end up like Porcello than not a success.
Outside of Price none of them are elite or can stay healthy to be elite. And elite is what you should get. We could have gotten Halladay or Lee.
And I’m not convinced about 150 good innings for Pineda when we’ve had prospects have solid 150 innings for us to only flame out. The difference is little.
So your not convinced about the 150 innings Pineda pitched, but you are convinced about the 70 plate appearances Montero has had ?? OK good, glad we cleared that up.
Best offense is a good defense, I think.
I’m not touting this as a big win (or even a win because I honestly have no read on Campos), but I would like to hear one person who is against this trade say that in a non-Yankee youngsters trade, they’d pick the 22 year old DH over the mid 90s tossing 24 year old SP.
23 year old SP!!!!
I’m all about the future so long as the future is 10 days from now.
Ha. I typed this honestly thinking we just went from 2012 to 2013. I am not drunk. I am sleep deprived.
He’s not a DH. He’ll be a first baseman with shitty skills. His upside is Miguel Cabrera and the chance of a hitting prospect panning out are significantly higher.
Let’s not start a Casey Kelly smear campaign here. Jesus can spot catch, play a bad 1B and be Manny-esque in the outfield. It’s been done and no one gives a crap when their bat is like that.
And a mid 90s arm means what exactly? There are more Hughes and Jobas that flame out that elite hitting prospects.
Where has he played 1B?
(And again, I have no side here. I loved the idea of Jesus. But objectively … I think objectively I’d love this trade where non-objectively I’m still stuck.)
He’s fielded a grand total of 0 innings at 1st in his professional career, including the Minors. Montero is a DH.
Pineda is a just a mid 90s arm? Yeah i guess it’s convenient for you to leave out the fact that he’s had a successful season starting at age 22.
Yes Montero’s bat could wind up being world class, but you can’t apply that logic to him and simply drop it when it comes to Pineda, whose pitching could equally be as world class.
Pineda is a just a mid 90s arm? Yeah i guess it’s convenient for you to leave out the fact that he’s had a successful season starting at age 22.
EVERY TOP PITCHING PROSPECT HAS THIS. They have their dominant year, yes that’s real great. Pitching is by far one of the hardest things a human being can do with their body. Even top 5 prospects are lottery tickets. Montero is unproven but the potential of an elite bat has the odds on their side.
And no if you’re giving up two prospects for Montero he isn’t going to only fucking DH.
Just to be clear, you’re both discounting Pineda’s 2011 as “a pitching prospect having his dominant year” and guaranteeing Montero will play the field?
No, hah, if anything I’m arguing the exact opposite of that. But I guess that is essentially his argument.
(That’s why I was addressing him.)
apologies, I assumed ‘you both’ included me.
“you’re both” … as in he is doing two things.
And to be clear since the ace trumps the crappy fielder and surefire DH then why go for the crappy DH?
Yeah he’s going to play the field if Pineda is half as good as all the hype from the people saying this is a steal.
You mean the surefire DH.
‘Every top pitching prospect has this’ ? Huh? How many pitchers have had successful Major League seasons at age 22? Don’t bother looking it up, I can already tell you it’s very few.
So the reason Montero isn’t going to DH is because the Mariners org though it was worth it to give up 2 prospects for him? OK, your right, the fact that all of the evidence of his play suggests the exact opposite of this, and the fact that the large majority of major scouts have said he’ll be a DH, are definitely outweighed because the Mariners were willing to give up 2 prospects. Even if you wanna argue that he can suddenly learn how to play 1b, we already have one of those locked up for the next several years in Tex. We needed a pitcher much more than we need another 1b.
BOLD EVERYTHING SO MY ARGUMENT CARRIES MORE WEIGHT AND SEEMS STRONGER ARGH
Wait, so the argument is Montero can’t field so his value isn’t high to the team yet at the same time he’s worth a 22 year old pitcher with an average of a 95 MPH fastball (which is A] totally false and B] apparently how you judge pitching until someone says Freddy Garcia can’t succeed with weak stuff.)
So since he’s a DH his value to the team is low but that same DH can net someone who you think is the next thing since sex. And if you’re trying to replace sex then you better try Montero at the field if he’s as good as you claim.
A] Are you not counting 94.7 as 95?
‘who you think is the next thing since sex’ ? huh?
The funny part was I thought your arguments were pretty incoherent before I read that bit which, for some reason, threw sex into this debate. All I’m saying is that it was a good trade. Most GMs who are sounding off are agreeing with me on this one. I’m going to stop debating this with you because you pretty much drove off the cliff with this post lol
I can insult a post and walk away too but that’s some weaksauce right there.
Oh just a mid 90s arm. That’s all. And all great hitting prospects pan out, of course.
The fail sense of superiority and the condescension mixed in with a complete reading fail makes this a very laughable post.
It still amazes me how well Cashman prevents leaks on these deals. There are literally no rumors that suggested this until it was about as close to a done deal as possible. On MLBTR, there’s always people pursuing someone, or some team is the favorite to get this guy but it seems when that is said about the Yankees, its because the Yankees have left the conference room and just put their name out there to raise prices. This deal came out of nowhere, I got home, turned on my laptop and my jaw just dropped.
Montero had to have been enough to get Gio Gonzalez or Latos. He didn’t pull the trigger on them. Did he like Pineda more or was there a change since those discussions? Steinbrenners’ want Prince? This is the week of Hal and Boras meeting and the discussion of the budget and then boom all this.
I dont know whether he would have been enough but I feel as though just Montero and Noesi just gets you in the door for Latos and Gonzalez just because while the high upside pieces are there, there isn’t enough quantity. On top of that, Campos is a huge wild card and he’s a top prospect in his own right, obviously not Montero level, but he has quite the potential. In a vacuum, this trade looks about even but based on this offseason, Cashman pulled quite the deal.
Montero probably isn’t a great fit for Latos, without the DH spot for SD to fall back on, and I would think they like Pineda more than Gio, but who knows?
I think we were under the impression that Cashman and the Yanks wouldn’t part with Montero with a pitcher less than Felix or Lincecum. But assuming Montero had to be included in a deal for a pitcher, would you prefer Pineda over Gio Gonzalez, Mat Latos, Matt Garza?
Latos >>> Gonzalez > Pineda > Garza.
Latos > Garza >> Pineda >> Gonzalez
I don’t see how Latos is better than Pineda.
Giving up fewer flyballs makes Latos a better option, IMO, but he and Pineda are pretty similar. Young, great MLB results, fantastic K rates, solid command. You can’t really go wrong either way.
I think Latos & Pineda are equal at this point. Choosing one over the other is pretty much just a personal preference. Latos has slightly better numbers, but he also pitched in the NL West. Pineda is also a bit younger. Like I said it’s really a toss up.
Gonzalez & Garza are not even comparable to those two.
Sorry, why is Garza not comparable? 8th best FIP last year not good?
contract situation, for one. Pineda 5 years of control (at very low cost for the first 2) Garza only has 2 years left and at decent money. Also Garza’s season was likely about his ceiling, while Latos and especially Pineda still have big upside. For just this year, I might take Garza, but factor in the contract situation, Pineda is preferable, imo
So comparable as an asset, not as a pitcher. I misunderstood.
Present day repertoire. It would take a major flaw, such as uncontrollable walks like Gio has, for me to pick a two pitch guy over a three or more pitch guy. Not saying Pineda can’t be the best of all four if he develops a legit change, but he’s not there right now.
Latos > Pineda > Garza > Gonzalez
Gonzalez had the same FIPs and xFIPs as Dbnks and people had man crushes on him.
I believe that was on the assumption that it would take much less to acquire Danks than Gio, considering their respective contract situations.
Latos > Pineda > Gonzalez > Garza.
Honestly, Latos has the best combination of team control and ability to perform because I think he translates to the AL East without losing too much. Garza costs more and just doesn’t have enough control to justify Montero. And Pineda has more potential, better control, more team years, and better strikeout stuff than Gonzalez so I give the edge to PIneda.
Gonzalez better than Pineda ?!?! wow dude. If there was any doubt about a bias, this just makes it blatantly clear.
You’re right a 3.12/3.64/3.73 e/f/x line is horrendous. Call me out on bias but that’s just straight up moronic if you think Pineda is more proven than Gonzalez.
Its atleast worth noting his FIP / xFIP was 4.00 / 3.99 on the road last year.
So league average pitching in a short amount of starts> Okay fine, he’s not perfect but people were raving about Danks who wasn’t all that better.
And no you cannot say Pineda has proven to be a better starter than Gonzalez. Gonzalez is still carries a fuckton of risk and he’s had two solid years.
I’m a huge Danks guy and I’ve never “raved” about him. I like him a lot because I trust his type more than I trust Gonzalez’s type. And you and I both know 2011 was Danks’ down year; to just look at that is ignoring past history.
I never said Pineda has “proven” to be a better starter than Gonzalez. Although, I guess I think he has unless you want to punish him for not having pitched in 2009.
So you are comparing Gonzalez’s age 25 season to Pineda’s rookie, age 22 season? LMAO.
Gonzalez stats are a 22 year old Rookie:
AGE: 22 ERA: 7.68 WHIP: 1.67 SO/BB 1.36 FIP 7.04 xFIP 7.04.
His age 23 season wasn’t much better.
The fact that your trying to say Pineda is worse than Gonzalez because as a 22 year old rookie his year was comparable to Gonzalez’s 4th year in the Majors at age 25 is absolutely comical. Drop it dude.
CC, Pineda, Nova = Swagger to the max. That’s the real reason this trade was made.
Speeders Anonymous (The 95+ club!)
When does the next fan confidence poll go up?
Confidence will go up since it helps the short term. I mean shit even Ted Nelson doesn’t like the move and if Ted Nelson doesn’t like the move you better believe something is out of the ordinary. I don’t recall him every not liking a move.
Ted Nelson hates kittens
I’m sure there are other moves he didn’t like but you’re right if Ted is against it then something is wrong here.
Ted Nelson doesn’t like humor either and that doesn’t mean humor is bad.
But according to that analogy Ted has had to have staunchly defended humor. With your history with him you probably don’t think so.
See he usually agrees what with Cash has done since he has all the info and whatnot but even this time he’s not liking it. Not saying Ted is right but the situation isn’t black and white for that to happen.
On some level, he has. He’s told me I’m not funny.
I think his irrational prospect hugger side is having difficulty reconciling this move with his irrational front office can do no wrong side. He is having difficulty because in his mind, Noesi was a future 9 time all star and Montero was going to make Barry Bonds look like Barry Bonnell.
In other words, his two irrational sides are conflicted and he’s ready to lash out at anyone and anything. Tread lightly. Or don’t. Whatever. I probably won’t.
The best RAB threads are when Ted Nelson and Plank are fighting. It’s only about three posts in until I’m crying of laughter. It’s even better than Greg trying to explain his ‘Law of Momentum’ to Axisa.
So Ted Nelson is now the voice of authority? That’s kinda scary actually.
NEXT MOVE-
Sign JD Drew to form the LHB half of a DH platoon 4-5 mil base with incentives. He wasn’t so hot last year, as he was banged up per the norm, however being a part time player could definitely help with that. Dude rocked a .281/.396/.536 split vs RHP in 2009 and a .277/.358/.517 line was righties in 2010 before being pretty abysmal all around in 2011. He’s still an adequate fielder in the corners. Who knows, he might jump at the chance to extend his career as a part time player with a chance to stick it to the Sox fans who never really accepted him.
put the bottle down and go to bed. you’ve clearly had too much to drink.
JD Drew strikes me as not caring enough to make any fan base eat crow, but i do agree that when Drew’s healthy and playing … he’s good. He’d probably flinch at a commitment longer than a year at this point, so perhaps Cashman should at least make a phone call.
The list of “gamers” and “gritty players” JD Drew had a better career than would take up a fuckload of pages in old school reporters’ single spaced notebooks.
For Ben K.’s favorite HORACE MANN alum …
Hughes for Pedro Alvarez.
BOOM!!
Anyone see this?
http://www.overthemonster.com/.....oki-kuroda
it’s like September all over again there.
You are my hero. This is the cherry on top of tonight’s ice cream pitching sundae!
The only time when you’ll see crying on Yankee and Red Sox blogs about the same move. And yes I am apart of the criers.
Have Kuroda/Garcia teach Pineda the split Cashman.
Anyways this Kuroda signing was great and would have been a successful offseason just by itself. Pineda helps short term but fuck.
Pineda’s 22. He also helps long term – if he doesn’t flame out, that is.
We should trade some young pitchers to the Nats for Zimmerman and move A-Roid to DH!
Are there any pitchers who have had comparable seasons to Pineda last year who have turned out to be disappointments?
Is Johnny Damon still available?? he can DH
I want to see Hughes in the rotation, he deserves one more chance. Ideally I would love to see AJ moved to the bullpen, with his stuff and only one or two innings of work at a time, he could be fantastic
The only people who deserve rotation spots are the 5 best starters in the Yankees system. Is Hughes one of them? I doubt it.
MLB:
CC
Kuroda
Pineda
Nova
Garcia
AAA:
Phelps
Warren
Betances
Banuelos
Mitchell
AA:
Hall
Stoneburner
Marshall
Romanski
Heredia
A lot harder after that. I’m ignoring non-prospects who will no doubt get starts.
A+:
Obrien
Allen
Ramirez
Nuding
A-:
Shane Green
Nick Turley
Wilton Rodriguez
Evan DeLuca
A huge portion of that could be way off base. It’s more of a jumping off point based on who pitched last year and is still in the system.
Oh, plus Campos obviously at…A-?
So with the addition of Kuroda+Pineda, brings the starting rotation to 7 deep… what to do with 2 extra? Is this a sign of more things to come?
Burnett will be gone within two weeks.
After waking up to this news, anything could be next.
OMG, what a day and I missed it all
just saw that the Yanks traded for Pineda and also signed Kuroda. Rotation problems, where art thou?
I’m sad that Montero was traded but that’s life.
I check MLBTR frequently and was pleased that the Yankees finally added a decent pitcher on a 1 yr. deal. As a read the article a came across this sentence.
Between Kuroda and the newly-acquired Michael Pineda, a once-shaky Yankees pitching staff has been overhauled and improved in just one day.
I was shocked. Michael Pineda???? WTF???? What a crazy night!!!!!
We won’t have to stress out whether Montero can catch or not or eve clog up the DH when we have broken down veterans to fill that roll.
I woke up and came to RAB. Saw the Kuroda article and was pleasantly pleased. Then read the similar line, “Pineda and Kuroda will join CC Sabathia and Ivan Nova in the rotation.” I thought, obviously, not the Pineda on the Mariners, it would be impossible, there had to be another Pineda I just can’t remember right now. So I then continued to scroll down, expecting to see a small type article on a minor “pineda” signing, when I see that Montero got traded. I almost had a heart attack.
AJ for Alfonso Soriano with the Cubs picking up the 18 million in 2014.
“Alfonso Soriano reiterated that he is willing to waive his no-trade clause, but only if the Cubs deal him to a contender, reports ESPN Chicago’s Bruce Levine. Soriano is owed $54MM through 2014 and the Cubs are reportedly willing to pay most of that salary in a possible deal.”
So they get Soriano for an extra 3 million over what they owe AJ.
Soriano ? Soriano as the Yanks DH for 3 years ? Not likely. Soriano will walk 20 times a year and K bigtime. He´s in advancing years and in decline.
Read please before commenting.
“with the Cubs picking up the 18 million in 2014.”
Right-handed bat with power and it will cost AJ (who they no longer need) and 3 million (which they probably will spend on a bat anyway).
At this point, trading our bad contract pitcher, for another teams bad contract hitter makes sense. Soriano does seem to be a good option there, plus the added bonus that he was as former homegrown Yankee.
Exactly. I think coming back to NY they would get a revived Soriano.
A revived 36 yr old ? On a 3 year deal.
Again read
I´m sorry I misread your comment but I still don´t see happening. If Chicago wants to throw in Garza and Vitters for AJ, Nova and CoJo then I´m on board.
I´d rather see NY trade Burnett to Houston for Carlos Lee. Lee´s got 1 year remaining at 18.5 and as we well know Burnett has 2 years remaining at 16.5 per. 1 year of Lee at DH-LF doesn´t sound too bad. Yanks throw in 8 million.
That sounds good too especially with the one year commitment.
AJ- 33 million
Lee- 18.5
Difference 14.5
If the Yanks throwing 8 your asking the poor ass Houston to pick up the extra 6.5.
That’s not happening.
Houston is looking to rebuilt and $$$ relief not worse baggage with more $$$.
the same argument holds true for Chicago a team also in the rebuild mode. 1 year of Lee sounds better than 2-3 yrs of Soriano.
Yes, but AJ is more valuable to them on the field and as a trade chip at the July trading deadline. AJ can only block trades to six teams where Soriano has a full no trade.
So the Yanks pick up all of the 14.5 million.
I guess, but that’s a lot to pick-up.
And I don’t see why Houston would want to make a 1 year problem in Lee into a 2 year problem in AJ.
But I must admitt I do like Lee better.
Plus the bonus of getting out of AJ’s contract 1 year earlier. If they can get Houston to do it I would do it and after yesterday I will never put anything pass Brian “the ninja” Cashman.
Burnett would be a reasonably cheap acquisition. If he rebounds a little it could raise his stock and a playoff caliber team might be willing to trade for him. 14.5 million is 6.5 million more than NY was reported willing to pick up of AJs remaining contract.
Free Eduardo Nunez! The A-bomber and El-Capitain are going to do a lot of DH’ing. This allows the best hitting prospect nobody seems to notice a chance to play more. Get Nunez more AB’s we will all be pleasantly surprised. Line drives and stolen bases… I like it!
More Andruw Jones and more Nunez if we don’t end up signing or acquiring another hitter somehow.
Maybe they are going for Cespedes? I don’t know.
I don’t see how Cespedes comes into play here, he’d come in at a AA level and is supposed to be a toolsy outfielder. Not a DH, and especially not in 2012, by any stretch of the imagination.
hey guys, as much as it sucks to lose jesus, he was a positionless bat which puts something of a cap on his upside.
meanwhile pineda is a freakin’ beast out there on the hill who could dominate this division. nobody doubts that he has the ability.
and to make you guys feel better, read this thread on over the monster, a sox blog:
http://www.overthemonster.com/.....a#comments
they, as red sox fans, all think we made a good deal.
According to COTs, Hughes has 4.113 years of ML service time, so sending him down for the first couple of months of the season would give the Yankees an extra season, keeping Hughes under control through 2014. That makes a lot more sense than wasting him in the pen. I’m assuming that’s the plan ATM. Either that or a trade.
“The Yankees initially tried to acquire Felix Hernandez from the Mariners, reports Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (via Twitter) and were willing to offer a package that included Montero, Betances, Banuelos and more.”
I think the Mariners missed the boat and THANK GOD that this didn’t happen.
lol there is even a Godfather ad under this article.