May
07

The Future of Right Field

By

(Brian Bissell/Future Star Photos)

Earlier today I wrote about the importance of having Nick Swisher in the lineup, and that got me thinking about the future of right field in general. Obviously Swisher will become a free agent after the season and with the 2014 payroll plan looming, he might not fit into the team’s plans going forward. He’s going to make it very hard for the team to let him walk given his early-season performance, but parting ways with a soon-to-be 32-year-old corner outfielder isn’t the craziest thing in the world.

The problem is that the Yankees don’t have an obvious in-house candidate to step into the outfield. Zoilo Almonte had an outside chance at being that guy, but that looks unlikely at this point. Melky Mesa is another Greg Golson/up-and-down type, ditto Colin Curtis to a certain extent. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Yankees moved prospects Rob Segedin and Tyler Austin (pictured) to right field on a full-time basis this season, but those two are still in Single-A and are years away from the bigs. Hopefully they become factors down the line, but they certainly won’t help next year or even the year after that.

If the Yankees do let Swisher walk, the best way to replace him probably involved a platoon of some sort until Segedin and/or Austin pan out, if they do at all. Andruw Jones seems like a logical candidate for the right half of that platoon assuming he doesn’t completely fall off a cliff this summer, but finding a lefty to go with him will be easier said than done. I’m partial to Kelly Johnson, who played the corner outfield earlier in his career and has everything the Yankees look for offensively: left-handed power, the willingness to take a walk, and the ability to steal double-digit bases. Would he take a one or even two-year deal to change positions for the Yankees at age 30? I highly doubt it. Heck, he might require a bigger contract than Swisher, but I digress.

The 2014 payroll plan is really going to throw a wrench into the team’s roster plans going forward, but frankly I think there’s a pretty good case to be made for keeping Swisher at say, something a little north Michael Cuddyer money (three years, $31M) and skimping elsewhere (coughsecondbasecough). He already has the “old player skills” that tend to age well and has been very durable throughout his career, which sounds kinda funny after he just sat out a week with a hamstring issue. There’s value in reliability, and it’s hard to find a more reliable and consistent Yankee over the last three years than Swisher. The best bridge from Swisher to the theoretical Segedin/Austin era just might be Swisher himself.

Categories : Musings
  • Gonzo

    The corner OF market after this year is not that great. Do you think that might inflate Swish’s next contract?

  • Robinson Tilapia

    I default to Swisher because I have no other idea what to do and, yes, I believe he can perform at a high level until the next crop is ready, if that’s what happens. I remain concerned as to someone willing to drastically overpay for him and driving up his price.

  • JU

    Yea, they should def prioritize Nick Swisher over Robinson Cano…That is a recipe for future success.

    • Gonzo

      Hmmm, not sure which direction this post is meant to go.

      • Dummies Playing With Balls (formerly Rainbow Connection)

        Not sure if serious.

    • TheOneWhoKnocks

      From 2009-2012 (since Swish joined the yanks) Cano has produced a .374 wOBA and Swisher has produced a .372 wOBA. Obviously Cano has been more valuable doing it from 2B but the point is, with a $189m budget will the yanks be better off spending $12-13m on swisher for 3 years or $20m on cano for 6-7 years? Yanks have a lot of holes to address and I’m not fond of spending the majority of their available funds on Cano.

      • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

        This. And Cano is very likely to have to be moved off 2B and/or may simply fall off a cliff the way many 2B do in their early/mid 30’s. And maybe he moves to RF and then why not sign swisher for way less?

      • Slugger27

        why does everyone assume cano will get 6/120 or something similar? he only has to make $17M to be the highest paid 2nd baseman in the league, and kinsler only got 5 years. i think 5/90 or 6/100 is much more of a realistic number.

        • Havok9120

          If so, do it. I’ve no problem with 5 years. MAYBE 6 if the price is very right.

          We’ll see.

        • Havok9120

          Besides which…doesn’t he make 18 million on the option year? I know for sure he’ll make more next year than Kinsler.

          • Bunt Gardner

            COTS lists his “13 option at $15M/$2M buyout.

        • JoeyA

          His name is Scott Boras.

          • Gonzo

            His name is Robert Paulson. His name is Robert Paulson. His Name is Robert Paulson.

      • Havok9120

        Well said. Even if you assume Cano won’t fall off a cliff in the next 2 or 3 years (which I do, curse of 2nd base be darned) that’s a LOT of years to pure contact hitter.

    • LK

      Yeah, they can totally just simply choose between Robinson Cano and Nick Swisher since they’ll cost the exact same amount.

      • Alex

        I’m more concerned about swisher’s defense now and for future years. He doesn’t wow me now because he doesn’t have exceptional range and he doesn’t have a spectacular arm.

    • BK2ATL

      Not true at all. Our future 3B is currently playing 2B. Our current 3B will be our fulltime DH.

      Cano has more intricate and positional future value than Swisher. Then there’s that best young hitter in the lineup thing that won’t be replaced with Jesus Montero, nor could we count on Sanchez, Bichette or Williams at this point either.

  • Slugger27

    He already has the “old player skills” that tend to age well

    is this at all true? low avg, high walk guys age well? i thought if anything speedy guys that high for high avg age well, and that the 3 true outcome types aged poorly.

    • Jamie

      I think the speedy high average guys tend to age not as well…right? The speed, on the bases, playing defensively takes a toll on their bodies…most recently Carl Crawford. While the 3 true outcome players tend to age better…Giambi, Dunn, etc.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Speedy guys usually don’t age well at all. Most of their value is shot as soon as they start to lose a step.

      • Slugger27

        http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ke-cheese/

        this article suggests the opposite. high avg low obp types will get better as hitters in general tend to walk more and K less as they age. but power hitters decline faster. and their walk rate doesnt have any place to really go but down.

        and to jamie: youre using dunn as an example??

        • V

          Dunn was absolutely atrocious last year. No ifs, ands, or buts. But are you paying attention in 2012? It’s like 2011 never happened – same old Dunn.

        • Gonzo

          From the article it says that “Patience is nice and stable, relatively.”

          Doesn’t that mean a patient hitter is more valuable than an impatient hitter? Seriously curious here.

          • Gonzo

            I mean where aging is concerned.

            • Slugger27

              the 2nd link i gave is easier to understand and more relevant to the actual question. basically the first article is saying that plate discipline is usually stable, but power declines pretty quickly and faster than people realize. but if you have a good eye, you’ll probably always have a good eye (like the abreus of the world)

              • Gonzo

                Abreu’s BB% resembles Swisher’s more than it does Cano’s.

              • RetroRob

                So that would be a vote in Swisher’s favor.

                I expect a farily rapid decline for Cano. I do not want the Yankees to sign him to a new contract, unless it was a four-year deal, which is not going to happen with Boras as his agent. Even without Boras as his agent that would probably be unlikely.

                Let him walk. Redirect resources elsewhere to repace Cano’s value. Move A-Rod to DH and find a better thirdbaseman. Or upgrade a bat in the OF. Or go hard after Cole “Welcome to the Big Leagues” Hamels so the team is upgrading at one of the pitcher slots. If Cano is delivering five WAR, then the team either through a single player, or a combination need to make up for that five WAR.

                I’m okay with a declining player asset as long as he can still be productive. Teams know this too and fully expect the value delivered per win will decrease as the player ages, thus the cost increases, but they will make up for that in other areas.

                Let Cano leave.

      • Slugger27

        also: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....ld-fogies/

        the first 2 paragraphs seem to imply the opposite of what youre saying. swisher types decline faster and earlier.

  • TheOneWhoKnocks

    I said it in the previous thread, I’d rather have Swish at 3 for 32-36 than Cano for 6-7 years at around $20m aav.

    I do however think that Swisher has a big season and in a weak market is in a good position to get overpaid by a more desperate team. (thinking 5 years 75m) at which point it doesn’t make sense for us to keep him either.

    The $189 plan is really going to make things interesting and we’re going to have to make some sacrifices, I just hope we make the right ones.
    I agree with Mike that Cano is probably a good candidate to let walk. He has a skillset that doesn’t age well, a reputation that exceeds his production and he’s going to be hitting free agency as what a 32 year old second basemen. Look at the numbers historically for 2B in their age 32-39 seasons, it’s very grim. I know his production will be difficult to replace(you could argue he’s our best hitter) but I don’t want to see the organization tied down to another player long term for big money. I think other big contracts like A-Rod and Tex have put us in a position where we can’t afford to take those risks when under a tight (although still extremely generous) budget

    • Tom Swift

      Swish loves New York. His wife works in New York. I think there’s a chance he’ll take a team friendly contract to stay.

      • Havok9120

        Everything he said in the offseason gave me hope that that would be the case. I’m staying pessimistic on that issue just to avoid disappointment.

      • Dummies Playing With Balls (formerly Rainbow Connection)

        He’s starved for attention. He needs NYC. or LA.

        • Slugger27

          …exactly. so youre agreeing, right?

          • Havok9120

            Heh.

          • Gonzo

            agreeance?

  • Bonnie Parker

    With Mariano coming back next year we don’t have his salary to apply to other players. With Hal’s budget cuts and some of our bloated salaries we won’t be able to keep Cano, Swisher, and Granderson and improve our pitching staff. We can use Kuroda and Garcia’s money but where else do we save?

    • MannyGeee

      spend like mad in 2013, and trim the fat on 2014. offer arbitration like a muthafucka.

      • Cris Pengiucci

        “With Mariano coming back next year we don’t have his salary to apply to other players.”

        We don’t know what Mariano will ask for. The team offered Pettitte more than $10 Million, yet he’s playing for significantly less. Maybe Mariano will play for less than market value as well. He’s certainly not going to play for a different team. We also don;t know what 2014 looks like. Maybe 2013 is his last hoorah and we don’t have to worry about this in 2014.

    • Alex

      Don’t go nuts over the 2014 budget simply because of Mariano contract. I think we can safely say he won’t be back for that year and his huge contract will be off of the books and the Yankees will be a lot closer to the 189 figure that Hal put out there even with a Cano pay increase.

  • JohnC

    Anyone who thinks they should keep Swisher than Cano long term is out of his cotton pickin mind.

    • TheOneWhoKnocks

      appears that way on the surface but their production has been very similar the past 3 seasons and while Cano is 2 years younger than Swisher he’s also got a skillset that doesn’t age well (as opposed to swisher’s skillset that does age well) and he’s going to require a 6-7 year commitment while Swisher is likely looking at 3 years.

      I think the Yanks will end up keeping Cano, and paying through the nose for him. I just think it will be the wrong call.

      • Ted Nelson

        The production has been similar the last three years, except that Cano plays 2B. So his production has been a lot more valuable. Not saying anything about who to sign going forward, just pointing that out.

      • G

        You have it backwards. Players with old player skills age poorly because they have nothing to improve. As their bat speed and power decline, their walk rate isn’t going to improve from an already high rate. As Cano ages he’ll probably mature as a hitter and take more walks. His bat speed and power will decrease as happens with age, but rather than drop from .250-.265 with a constant walk rate, he’ll decline from .300-.320 to .280-.300 with a better walk rate than before which will largely cancel out the regression in ability.

    • viridiana

      Have been saying for some time that it may make more sense to keep Swish than Grandy. For one thing, it allows the system another year to come up with an outfielder. I believe there’s a good chance Mason Williams can help by 2014. He likely won’t hit right off but his defense and speed will be assets. And his incredibly low strikeout rate suggests he may adjust more quickly than expected to bigs.
      As to Cano, the numerous casual references to 6 year deals seem like wishful thinking. Unless he seriously tanks, can’t imagine that Boras peddles him for less than 8 years. Every reson to think some one will go that lenth too. Of course, my preference for Swish is dependent on them getting him at reasonable price. I might go a bit higher than Mike– say, three years $36-37 mill.

      • TheOneWhoKnocks

        I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets 8 years. It all depends how he performs until then and what the market looks like, but I think unless he’s willing to sign something that is in line with what Kinsler and Utley got, the Yanks need to let him go.

        He’s a Kinsler/Utley level talent, not a Pujols/Arod level talent. Pay him accordingly or let someone else make that mistake

    • Guest

      JohnC, I’m not sure if you know that the origin of the phrase “cotton pickin” is. If you don’t, look it up.

      I generally am OK with all kinds of potentially “un-PC” phrases, but that one…bothers me.

      • JohnnyC

        Guest (if that’s your real name), I’m very sure you don’t know the origin of the phrase. You should look it up. I cite the Historical Dictionary of American Slang:

        Believe it or not the adjective cotton-picking comes from Bugs Bunny and the Looney Tunes cartoons and is used as a general adjective of disapproval, similar to damned. From a 1952 cartoon:

        Get your cotton-pickin’ hooks offa me!

        Bugs may not have been the first to use it, but he gets credit for first recorded use.

        But the noun cottonpicker is older. It dates to around 1919 and refers to a contemptible person. From Joel Chandler Harris’s Dizzed:

        What are these boys from the South? Are they cotton-pickers, corn-crackers, stump jumpers, ridge-runners or bog-leapers?

        Cottonpicker has also served as a derogatory term for a black person since at least 1930. While cottonpicker has distinct racist overtones, the adjective cotton-picking does not carry them, instead being a reference to the unpleasant nature of the work.

        • Guest

          JohnC,

          You’re being too cute by half, and I think you know that.

          First, the fact that Bugs Bunny used a term by no means innoculates it from being ridiculously offensive. Now, like just about everybody else, I loved Bugs Bunny cartoons as a kid. But it is pretty much common knowledge that heb used a ton of racist terms meant to disparage both black people and Native Americans.

          Second, you used the phrase “cotton picking mind.” That, to me, does not seem to be referring to the nature of the work. Rather, the phrase seems to be describing the mind of a person who would prefer to have Swisher over Cano. And that description, as applied to a person, is extremely offensive to me…and again, I don’t usually get offended by much.

          We all know who picked the lion’s share of cotton is the country, the circumstances under which they picked cotton, and what someone is trying to imply about the quality of someone’s thinking ability when they use the phrase “cotton picking mind.”

          I obviously don’t think you’re a racist. I certainly don’t think you meant any harm. I just wanted to be clear that phrase stirs up a lot of painful thoughts for many Americans, and I personally would appreciate it if it left our discourse forever…

    • AJavierkei Pavagawnett

      Swisher 4/60 >> Cano 6/120

      There’s no question.

      • Havok9120

        4 years of Swish is pushing it, even for me. AND 6 years is on the bubble for me on whether or not to take Cano. In other words, that offer makes me conflicted.

  • Manny’s BanWagon

    I wouldn’t have a problem giving Swish a 3/$36 deal at the end of this contract.

    The FA market for corner outfielders is horrible over the next few years as Gonzo mentioned and there are no reasonable internal candidates as Mike stated.

    As for the 2014 budget, I’m starting to think that the Yankees very well might have to decide between getting under $189 for 2014 and 2015 while putting a team on the field the very well might not make the playoffs or saying to hell with the luxury tax and bringing in who they need to win.

    • jim p

      might have to decide between getting under $189 for 2014 and 2015 while putting a team on the field the very well might not make the playoffs or saying to hell with the luxury tax

      That’s pretty much the choices. If they are intent on making the $189, with the heart and top of the lineup aging, no position players ready for big impact in the majors, I don’t see how they end up winning things without spending for hitters. Maybe if their young pitchers mostly come through and are outstanding, but that would be the gamble.

      • Ted Nelson

        They can spend on hitters and stay under the $189 million… Those options are definitely not mutually exclusive.

    • OldYanksFan

      The problem is, as we have proved from 2002-2008, that even spending big bucks to get the right players, doesn’t quarantee a ring. It does however, almost guarantee trouble down the lihe, as most of these contracts cost WAY more then $4.5m/WAR over the life of the contract.

      Robbie’s rep, as well as his age, makes it much more likely he will get a crazy contract. At $20m AAV, he needs to deliver 4.5 WAR/yr over the length of a contract. While I can see that over 4 or maybe 5 years, 7 or 8 years will be suicide.

      When Giambi was a FA in 2001, there was almost no competiton for him. Now, teams have far more money, and many more bidders are driving up contract prices… especially in years. Top tier players are getting contracts that will ultimately hurt their team. For a non-contender type that’s willing to try and make a PS run for 3 or 4 years, and then take a hit for a few years, these contracts might work.

      But the Yankee are trying to Win EVERY year. So sacrificing the future for the present makes no sense. We all know about ARod’s and Teix’s contracts. You can probably add Pujols, Carl Crawford, A. Soriano, Zito, Zambrano, and many, many others to the list.

      The Yankees are going to have to pick and choose FAs very carefully in the future.

  • Brian S.

    Don’t lie. You wrote this article because you saw my comment on your Mariano Rivera piece on fangraphs.

  • Brian S.

    I would hope that we pursue Cole Hamels this winter, even if it means 20 million dollars a year. I want an elite rotation. If that means that Swish has to leave then so be it. Both he and Russ will probably be type A free agents so we should be able to get some nice draft picks from them. I’m thinking we could do what the Sux are doing this year and have a platoon RF with cheap players. Like Cody Ross, Matt Diaz, Torii Hunter, Carlos Quentin etc.

    • Brian S.

      Could probably add Ichiro to that list.

      • Brian S.

        And Chris Duckerson.

    • Need Pitching

      there are no Type A free agents anymore.
      Draft pick compensation is contingent on making a qualifying offer (somewhere around 12.5M/ 1 year currently)
      I would think offering that contract to Swisher would be a no-brainer.
      For Russ, he’s really going to have to finish strong this year to make offering him that contract worth the gamble.

  • DERP

    It seems like all of our prospects have tattoos.

    • MannyGeee

      I think all athletes do. its a thing

      • Gonzo

        I’ve had to have conversations with friends about why they don’t like certain players. I crap you not, someone said they hated Harper because of his hair.

        • FIPster Doofus

          I guarantee you a lot of people are anti-Harper for that reason.

          • Gonzo

            I don’t get it. When did everyone become Jorge?

            • Slugger27

              while “hate” is a strong word, its pretty easy to be annoyed by someone doing something for attention.

              i cant say i hate any of them for this specifically, but im annoyed by felix hernandez, hanley ramirez, mike napoli, jacoby ellsbury, etc etc etc for not buttoning the top of their jerseys. and every time i see any of them, the only thing in my mind is “button your damn jersey you douche”

              • Gonzo

                I guess I just don’t get it.

                • Slugger27

                  i dont get why people would HATE someone for it, but i just explained why i personally can understand them getting annoyed by it. like i said, anyone doing anything strictly to be different or to get attention is annoying. whether its harpers hair or biggio not letting people clean his helmet, or anything else. i dont “hate” them, but all i can think about when i see them is “why are you doing (insert annoying thing)??”

                  • Gonzo

                    like i said,anyone doing anything strictly to be different or to get attention is annoying.

                    This, I think, is kind of dangerous. How do you, or anyone else, know they are doing something to be different or if that’s just the way they are. Maybe Harper just thinks his hair is f*cking rad. He is 19.

                    You see what I’m getting at? Why do “these people” try to be so different. Why don’t they fall in line and behave like I want them to…

                    • Slugger27

                      “different” isnt opinion. 99% of all players button the top of their jerseys. these guys dont. me saying theyre being different is fact.

                      i get what your point, that we shouldnt judge what is and what isnt for attention. its hard not to though. and harper may think his hair is just awesome. some examples are better than others. id like you to come up with one reason biggio wouldnt let anyone clean his helmet year in and year out other than just wanting people to pay attention to his dirty helmet. kudos if you can.

                    • Gonzo

                      I never said something doesn’t make them different. I said you assuming that you know why is kind of dangerous.

                      I won’t light three on a match, I won’t kill spiders, etc… It might make me different, and I guess it does if the statistics say it does, but how could anyone tell me I’m doing it so that people pay attention to me? They know better than I why I do something?

                      There are 6 billion people in this world. A lot of them are bound to be different. Some are even bound to want attention. Disliking them for that seems a little superficial to me.

              • Sweet Dick Willie

                I guess you didn’t like Mickey Mantle.

                • Slugger27

                  way before my time. but yeah, being a superstar doesnt make you immune. felix, ellsbury and napoli were all examples i used of people that annoy me cuz they have 1 annoying thing about them. i didnt get to watch mickey, but i dont see why he wouldve been any different.

                  • Plank

                    I always hated Ted Lilly’s stupid face. Randy Kiesler, too. That’s not really related, but I wanted to get that out.

                    I feel much better now.

  • steve s

    Segedin will be 26 at the start of the 2014 season. If he is still “years away” what kind of prospect is he anyway?

    • TheOneWhoKnocks

      I think one of Segedin/Austin/Williams will be up by 2014. We sure need one of em so somebody is going to get the fast track treatment.

      • steve s

        I agree. That at least should be the plan anyway instead of continuing to re-up aging guys on multi-year deals.

        • Slugger27

          the plan should be to rush a good prospect instead of exploring an extension with swisher?

          • steve s

            A good prospect, yes. A non-prospect (as you think may be where Segedin is headed per your reponse below), then no.

            • Slugger27

              they should be treated independently of each other. no way a kid in A ball should have any bearing at all on whether or not the yankees should explore re-signing swisher. if he was 22 and in AAA, then absolutely. but way too far away for him to impact decisions on free agency.

              as far as rushing. if he maintains this performance, then theres no reason not to keep moving him up, but even then. its tampa this year and trenton/scranton in 2013, and youre still looking at 2014 at the earliest.

      • Slugger27

        its hard to lump segedin in with those other 2. segedin is 23 and still in A ball. hes having a solid season, but he was there last year, and again, hes playing against guys hes at least 2 years older than, and in most cases 3.

        not a nonprospect, but getting there.

        • JohnnyC

          According to Baseball America, the average age of a player in High A ball (including Tampa in the FSL where Segedin plays) is 22.8. So, no, he’s not playing against guys he’s at least 3 years older than. Of course, BA is using actual birthdates. Maybe you have other means of determining age.

          • Slugger27

            average age? really? we’re talking about PROSPECTS, not org guys. you cant possibly consider this a serious argument.

    • Ted Nelson

      I do agree 2014 is not at all unrealistic (A+/AA in 2012, AA/AAA in 2013… AAA/MLB in 2014), but he’s 25 in 2014. Plenty of college guys don’t debut till 25-ish.

      Segadin is not a high-ceiling prospect, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be a serviceable big-leaguer.

  • JohnC

    Where have U gone Melky Cabrera?

    • MannyGeee

      you’re only 1/2 kidding, i’m sure. but for real, the MelkMan cometh again.

      • BK2ATL

        He’s gotten much better since working out with A-Rod and playing regularly….Probably wouldn’t cost very much either. He knows how to play and deliver in NYC.

        He might be a cheaper, less-power, higher avg, better fielder RF version of Swisher. Just saying…

  • adjusts batting gloves

    I think A-Rod should prove he’s a True Yankee by taking a voluntary pay cut!

    /wishful thinking

    • JohnC

      Actually he will. His salary goes down every year for the rest of his deal. He makes 29 mill this year, 28, next, then 25. Then the last 3 years it drops to 21, 20 and 20

      • Manny’s BanWagon

        4 and 5 years from now when he’s 41 and 42 years old and making only $20 million a year, he’s gonna be a veritable bargain.

        Hank should be caned for signing him to that contract.

        • jsbrendog

          the scary thing is i bet you can look back in 10 years and say arods avg value the last 3 yrs of his contract were better than a pujols, fielder, votto, etc. which s mind effing boggling

          • Manny’s BanWagon

            Prince’s deal takes him to 36 and pays him $24 million the last few years so I don’t think he’ll be as useless as Arod will be at the end but given his body, he could fall off a cliff in his mid 30s and no one would be surprised.

            Votto’s contract takes him to age 40 and pays him $20 million the last few years so he might be close.

            Pujols contract takes him to age 41 (if you believe he is really born in 1980) but pays him $29 and $30 million the last 2 years so I think his is probably the worst of them all.

      • jsbrendog

        which is irrelevant because the luxury tax is based on aav

    • Peter North

      Don’t think the players’ union would even allow it. Remember his non-trade to the Red Sox?

      • Gonzo

        Yeah the union would crap a brick. Nice screen name.

    • Sweet Dick Willie

      I think A-Rod should prove he’s a True Yankee by taking a voluntary pay cut!

      He couldn’t even if he wanted to. The union would never allow it.

      In fact, that why he’s with the Yanks and not the Sux. He offered to reduce his salary to facilitate the trade to Boston and the union said he couldn’t do it.

    • G

      A pay cut won’t happen, but I’m still in favor of renegotiating the contract. Add a few years and guarantee him his bonuses. He’d be foolish not to take it, it gives him money he might not actually get under the current contract and gives him a few extra years to break all the records. I know the thought of even more years of A-Rod is painful, but it could be huge in getting under $189M to spread out a little more money over a longer span.

  • Manny’s BanWagon

    2014 starting right fielder for the Yankees, 22 year old power hitting Cuban phenom, Jorge Soler.

    Cashman stop screwing around with your hoes and sign this guy as soon as he’s eligible.

    • Kosmo

      Yes ! Yanks need to get off their asses and sign Soler.

      • Gonzo

        Thanks for pointing this out guys. I almost forgot about him. He seriously might be the answer. His bonus wouldn’t count against the luxury tax, right?

        • Plank

          He’s 19, so he would have to really hit the ground running in order to be a factor in replacing Swisher.

          If he signs before a certain date (I always forget) he won’t count toward the IFA spending limit.

          • Gonzo

            No, I didn’t mean replace Swish next year. I don’t think 2014 is crazy if he’s as advertised. Maybe not to begin the season though.

          • Havok9120

            July 2nd I believe.

    • FIPster Doofus

      Jorge Soler is a mythical being. There’s no such person.

    • BK2ATL

      Yeah, there’s still that FA eligibility thing. He still hasn’t been cleared as a FA, and it’s been reported that it might not happen prior to July….

      Here’s to hoping…

  • Kosmo

    I guess because he´s 27 and not considered a prospect that Mustelier gets no love. He´s according to Trenton´s manager a very talented and skilled player who plays 3B,2b and the OF. He´s now at Scranton and if he continues to scald the baseball will be called up in the near future. Keep that name in mind.

    • JohnnyC

      Mustelier is 5’6″ and 215 lbs. He’s got somewhat of a hit tool but he’s got negligible power and is not particularly fast. His ceiling is platoon guy or super sub. Problem is he’s not a good infielder and SS is completely out of the question for him.

  • The Dude

    Umm. Yankees would be out of their minds if they would be ok with letting Cano walk. First of all, although his range will only get worse with age, I’d rather have Cano, suspect defense and all, over a Ryan Theriot defense first type who has a noodle for a bat. Unlike Swisher/Granderson who have heirs in the minors (Tyler Austin, Mason Williams) there is absolutely no one in our system who is capable of being a major league 2nd baseman. Unless you’re ok with Kevin Russo, Ramiro Pena, or Corban Joseph being a Starting Second Baseman for a Contender™. If anything I would let Grandy walk and trade for a young CF like Denard Span, Peter Bourjos or even sign a FA like BJ Upton or Michael Bourn who will command a more modest contract. I’m a big Grandy fan but his range out there in center isle aves a lot to be desired whereas Swisher and Cano please average to above average defense at their respective positions.

  • The Dude

    Umm. Yankees would be out of their minds if they would be ok with letting Cano walk. First of all, although his range will only get worse with age, I’d rather have Cano, suspect defense and all, over a Ryan Theriot defense first type who has a noodle for a bat. Unlike Swisher/Granderson who have heirs in the minors (Tyler Austin, Mason Williams) there is absolutely no one in our system who is capable of being a major league 2nd baseman. Unless you’re ok with Kevin Russo, Ramiro Pena, or Corban Joseph being a Starting Second Baseman for a Contender™. If anything I would let Grandy walk and trade for a young CF like Denard Span, Peter Bourjos or even sign a FA like BJ Upton or Michael Bourn who will command a more modest contract. I’m a big Grandy fan but his range out there in center leaves a lot to be desired whereas Swisher and Cano please average to above average defense at their respective positions.

  • The Dude

    Sorry for double post. Mike if you’re reading this delete the first duplicate.

  • TheOneWhoKnocks

    Just sign cole hamels and figure everything else out after that, thanks

  • ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa

    LET’S GO MELKY MESA YEAHHHHH!!!! Sorry.. I got attached to my handle.. How about we convert Brett Lawrie to an outfielder and sign him?

    • Slugger27

      because hes not a free agent?

      • ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa

        The Yankees have let that stop them when?

        • Slugger27

          …….

  • delshofner

    Not sure what the answer is on the Cano deal. Long term deals (Arod and Tex) are killing us as we pay a premium for production that is not there. (At least ARod won a title for us; Tex is an albatross.) Letting him walk may the play considering his age when his contract is up.

    But to position this as Cano vs Swisher and to somehow equate the two is pretty dumb. Swish is 16-100 in the post season with 28ks. He has s**t the bed on the big stage. Cano is a singular offensive force at a premium defensive position that he mans at a very high level. Cano has hit over .300 the last 2 post seasons.

    The one thing I will say about Swish ……. from the left side he’s starting to let the ball travel and drive it the other way. If he can consistently start doing that then I might change my assessment.

    Bottom line is I think these are 2 separate arguments and I hate to see it when we take one new age stat to imply that one obviously superior player is on a level with an average one. And yes, it is about October baseball which, as in a lot of sports, is played at a different level.

    • TheOneWhoKnocks

      I didn’t know Skip Bayless read RAB.

  • Guest

    Do people really think that Swish is going to have to settle for a 3 yr, 36 Mil deal? I mean, he’s making 10.25 Mill this year as it is.

    He was obviously very focused in the off-season, came in as prepared as he’s ever been to succeed, and he’s succeeded at an impressive rate so far. It could just be a hot streak, and Swish is known to be streaky.

    But given (1) the added, um, motivation Swish had to work as hard as he could to do well this year (Adrian Beltre says hello),(2)the fact that he clearly worked harder this off-season than he has before, and
    (3) the fact that he appears to be one of the few guys where “being in the best shape of his life” appears to make a difference in his performance, I would guess that its more likely that we are witnessing a “career year” than not.

    And if he has a career year, three years at a little more than he’s receiving goes sprinting out the window.

    • Kosmo

      I certainly have no idea what kind of longterm deal Swisher will be asking for but if he hits .280 with 25-30 HRs and 100 rbi the bidding starts at 15-17 million a year.

      • BK2ATL

        The Braves want Swisher badly and might spend $15-$18 million per to get him. Then, there’s also the Dodgers, who would probably consider Swisher an all-around upgrade over Ethier. He’ll get paid what he wants.

        • Plank

          I feel like the Rangers will go after Swisher and let Josh Hamilton walk. It doesn’t really make sense, just a feeling.

          • BK2ATL

            Might be a better and much cheaper move for Texas.

            While Hamilton is very talented, he is a time-bomb, plus the both extreme on-the-field/off-the-field wear & tear on that body….He won’t age well under a long-term deal.

  • delshofner

    I’ve got a right fielder for us. A lefty bat who covers the plate and barrels the ball. I know he hasn’t done it yet in the majors but the guy can hit. Travis Snider. I wonder what it would take. Betances?

    • Kosmo

      he hits in the minors.

      • delshofner

        24 and so much more.

        oh and buy low.

        • Gonzo

          Trading within the division would be tough to do for the Jays, no?

          • BK2ATL

            I don’t see them revisiting trades much within the division. They wouldn’t bite on any of our prospect packages for Halladay, when they had him. They’re not gonna help one of the teams that they are trying to climb past.

            • sevrox

              Who’s trying to climb past whom?

              • BK2ATL

                Toronto’s trying to climb past the Yanks, Boston and Tampa in the AL East for regular postseason contention.

    • The Dude

      Um. No. Although there’s a small chance that Betances reaches his potential, there is a chance he becomes something special. And I’d really hate for him to find it with the Blue Jays and then pitch 8IP w/10Ks against us. As for Travis Snider he’s Mark Teixeira Jr. except for the part where he was good at baseball at one time. I’d kep Betances unless you’re trading him for some more pitching like a Dan Haren type. Worse comes to worst he’s a strikeout middle reliever and there’s no shame in that.

    • yankeegm

      LOVE the Snider idea…

      Young, good power/patience, and currently a buy-low candidate…

      That being said, Tor would never trade him to us.

      • Ted Nelson

        Yeah, both teams would really have to be at the end of their ropes to deal such high upside within the division for an equally risky guy in return… could fleece a rival, but could just as easily get fleeced. Plus Snider is at least CRUSHING AAA right now. His wOBA is like .500. Betances… is not crushing anything right now.

        Dom Brown seems more like the Betances of OFs right now, and is in the other league entirely.

  • Tyrone Sharpton

    kelly johnson is in no way going to have any chance of getting more money than swisher.

  • AJavierkei Pavagawnett

    I love this because all anyone ever does is scream about ARod and Teixeira and their contracts.

    OK great. So you want to do the same thing with Cano?

    Just be happy with it: You get nine great years out of the guy, let someone else overpay him on the downside of his career.

    If he gets say 130/6 or god forbid 150/7, really you’re paying him 35+ million a year for his prime years before he falls off.

    There’s no way it makes sense to hand out that amount of money when you could have a Cole Hamels – someone likely to perform at an elite level for the life of a contract – for similar money.

    If you can get Cano for something like 5 years for <100, maybe with a vesting option based on productivity for a 6th, maybe it's worth it.

    Swisher's never been considered an "elite player," whatever that means, so maybe he could be had for 4 years for somewhere between 50 and 60.

    I'd rather have Swisher for 4 and the extra $60 million, than Cano at age 36 or 37.

    Here's how the Yankees can gain a competitive edge going deep into the 2010's – don't give atrocious contracts to "franchise players." Let other teams get hamstrung by the Pujols/Votto/Fielder/Crawford/Werth contracts.

    • Plank

      Here’s how the Yankees can gain a competitive edge going deep into the 2010’s – don’t give atrocious contracts to “franchise players.” Let other teams get hamstrung by the Pujols/Votto/Fielder/Crawford/Werth contracts.

      That’s how much elite free agents cost now. If the Teix we got had been a FA last offseason, he would have gotten a similar deal to Fielder. One of the few benefits of long term deals for teams is that while they seem bad at the end usually, they seem less bad because of salary inflation.

      20MM for Arod won’t seem as bad in 2017 as it seemed it would in 2007.

      • Ted Nelson

        The whole point of the comment you responded to was not to sign elite FAs because of what they cost these days. That they’re overpriced. Agree or disagree, but don’t repeat his point to him like you’re telling him something new.

        • Plank

          Such anger.

          They’re not overpriced. That’s the new price.

          • Ted Nelson

            Stop with the anger thing. What’s the point?

            Again… you don’t seem to understand the conversation you’ve entered… which seems to happen every thread. AP said that the new market rate for elite players overvalues them. “It’s the new price” is not a counter to that. We all know it’s the new price. The question is whether it should be the new price? Should the Yankees pay the new price, or should they let some other team pay it?

            If I tell you that the new price of a certain car is $50,000… that doesn’t tell you much about whether you’re going to buy it or not. Is that the new price of a ’95 Honda or a brand new Bentley? Is signing Cano through his 30s at huge $ a terrible idea, a great idea, or somewhere in between?

            • Plank

              You are ridiculous. You keep pretending I’m an idiot. It’s obviously not true and I don’t appreciate it.

              The money in free agent contracts define how valuable players are. A player signs …

              You know what? I’m not even going to bother. I’m not going down another 2 hour rabbit hole with you so you can call me names and get out your aggression online.

              • Ted Nelson

                I’m not pretending anything. I’m responding to your comments. You do come across to me as an idiot. Your comments often miss the point of the comment you’re responding to completely.

                “The money in free agent contracts define how valuable players are.”

                To one team. Not to any other team. Obviously the team that signs a player thinks he is that valuable or more valuable. That doesn’t mean any other team agrees. The Rangers let Lee and then Wilson walk in consecutive years, so it seems they weren’t worth what they got paid to the Rangers… but they were worth it to the Phillies and Angels, respectively. The Rangers have done fine letting those guys walk.

              • Ted Nelson

                You know what the saddest thing is? I still try to break things down for you so that you might understand. I went through the whole Honda/Bentley example for your benefit. Yet you never want to learn. Instead you just lash out at me for questioning you.

                • Plank

                  What the fuck is your problem? You’re trying to teach me? Are you Glen Beck standing at the chalkboard misinterpreting stuff? That’s a pretty apt comparison actually.

                  Misuse the term marginal for me then tell me I don’t understand what it means, that’s my fave.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    How did I misuse the term marginal? If anything, you made it a one word representation of a larger point I was making. Not me.

                    Yes, I am trying to teach you. You clearly didn’t understand what AP was saying, as evidenced by your response. “It’s the new price” was not a legitimate response. Do you really not understand that? Why can you never, ever admit when you’re wrong or don’t know something. No one knows everything.

            • Plank

              Again… you don’t seem to understand the conversation you’ve entered… which seems to happen every thread.

              Who speaks to another human being like that?

              • Havok9120

                Darth Vader.

                • Plank

                  Ha.

              • Ted Nelson

                Plank, I am your father.

                What you quoted isn’t disrespectful at all. Every thread you make comments that seem to completely misunderstand the point you’re commenting on. That’s just an observation. What sort of human points out things they observe? I don’t know… most.

                • Plank

                  Not gonna get sucked in. Not gonna get sucked in. Not gonna get sucked in. Not gonna get sucked in. Not gonna get sucked in.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    So, basically, I’ve sufficiently proved your point completely wrong?

                    • Plank

                      What’s wrong with you?

                    • Ted Nelson

                      When I thoroughly undress your argument as wrong, you never simply admit it was wrong. You go on the offensive against me with little one line responses. Why not just admit that you’re wrong?

                    • Plank

                      I didn’t have an argument. I was taking his thought and extending from it. It doesn’t surprise me that you are unable to see two people interacting without conflict.

                    • Plank

                      Jiminy Christmas. Everything is a heart attack with you.

                    • Ted Nelson

                      Whether it was an argument or not… your comment had no validity.

                      That I disagree with you doesn’t mean I’m having a heart attack.

            • Slugger27

              ted, youre the guy that doesnt get it here. the free agents arent overpriced. the market itself has changed. you can argue whether or not theyre worth market value, but you cant argue market value itself. the free agent market sets the price of what guys are worth. its capitalism. its pretty clear the market has changed.

              again, these players arent overpriced. the high price is the new market price.

              • Ted Nelson

                Come on, man. If you don’t know what you’re talking about don’t talk down to people who do.

                “the free agents arent overpriced.”
                “you can argue whether or not theyre worth market value”

                If they’re not worth market value… they’re overpriced. Market value can be wrong. The market adjusts. That’s capitalism.

                Say Pets.com’s market value was $100 per share for a $100 million valuation during the tech boom (totally made up numbers). That’s its market value. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t overvalued.

                • Slugger27

                  i shouldve said if theyre not worth market value TO THE YANKEES. as in, you should argue whether we should pay market value for cano, but you cant argue what his market value is ($80M +)

                  i get what youre saying, you think this past offseason is an abberation. but theres no way you can predict that. fielder, pujols, votto all signed for well more than what we thought. whether you think itll change in the future or not, the market value for a great offensive 1st baseman in his prime is over $200M. that doesnt mean i think those are prudent contracts, but it does mean thats what a team can expect to pay to be the top bidder, which is all that matters, and what we’re talking about when we say “market”

                  • Ted Nelson

                    You can argue whether he’s worth “market value.” That’s what I’m saying.

                    AP said that none of these 30-something star FAs are worth market value, basically. Certainly I think you can argue with that comment. Plank’s point that it is market value, though, was not a legitimate argument. It basically tried to argue against AP’s conclusion by pointing out one premise of AP’s own argument…

                    ” it does mean thats what a team can expect to pay to be the top bidder, which is all that matters, and what we’re talking about when we say “market””

                    You’re missing the point as much as Plank here. The question is not whether or not that’s market value. We all know it is market value. It’s a given. The question is whether or not a team should pay market value.

                    Did the Pets.com example do nothing for you? I’ll try it again. Stocks have very well defined, liquid market values. If a stock is at $100… that’s it’s market value. When deciding whether or not to buy that stock, you have to decide whether the company is worth its stock price, less, or more. When Boras comes to the Yankees or any other team saying Cano was offered 10 years $200 million… that team is in the same position as you are with the stock. “The market” says the asset is worth $x… but you have to decide the actual value of that asset relative to the market value. You don’t have to pay market value… you can simply abstain from buying that particular item or class of items.

                    If stocks don’t work… do the same thing with a house or a car.

              • Havok9120

                Well, siding with Ted while he’s in Rude Mode does leave a sour taste in my mouth, but already agreed that the market price has changed. He’s asking whether or not we should be willing to pay market price. I get the impression that he doesn’t think current market value will stay this high, and he may have a point if so. Depends on if Votto, Fielder, and Pujols cripple their franchises at some point. Or even if they don’t bring back equal value.

                Heck, I would think Boston’s current troubles might give teams pause. That’s a 180 million dollar team with something like 80 million+ on the shelf from injury and ineffectiveness. And if they continue to spiral into oblivion….

                • Ted Nelson

                  I’m not stating my opinion on the matter at all. Just saying that Plank misunderstood AP’s comment, and therefore his response was… don’t even know what to say so as not to be rude. It was off-base, I guess.

                  Not even trying to be rude… Plank just makes these arrogant pronouncements even when he has no idea what he’s talking about. I have no patience for it. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, why would you tell other people they’re wrong?

                  (In terms of my actual opinion… Case by case. Depends not only on the guy you’re signing, and also the state of your organization.

                  I don’t think FA prices will come down, but I also would try not to sign too many FAs. To me the very nature of the CBA makes them overpriced. I don’t think that the Yankees have to either sign big FAs or develop guys… I think they can do a little of both and also trade for some guys using just below elite prospects like, say, the Granderson deal. Those prospects pretty much hit their collective ceiling, and the Yankees still got a fair deal.)

                  • Ted Nelson

                    I mean big time FAs in the last paragraph.

    • Gonzo

      I read the whole interaction between Plank and Ted Nelson. I seriously think this is a made up argument for sport.

      Ted, is there that much of a difference between your:
      The production has been similar the last three years, except that Cano plays 2B. So his production has been a lot more valuable. Not saying anything about who to sign going forward, just pointing that out.

      and Plank’s:

      One of the few benefits of long term deals for teams is that while they seem bad at the end usually, they seem less bad because of salary inflation.

      When you read them in context to their respective threads?
      Isn’t Ted saying, hey I get your point, but I wanted to add that Cano has a higher value because of position. Isn’t Plank saying, hey I get your point, but I wanted to add that the contracts may not be as bad because of contract inflation.

      Of course, I expect both of you disagree, so f*ck it.

      • Ted Nelson

        I just don’t like Plank.

        • Gonzo

          So was I right in saying it was for sport? Maybe not sport. Spite?

          • Ted Nelson

            I guess I would say that it wasn’t as much about Cano as it was about Plank’s response to AP.

        • Ted Nelson

          But, seriously, my problem was just with the point about this being the new market value… the question is not whether it’s been the new market value or not, but whether it should be.

          • Gonzo

            I see. There really isn’t a solid answer to that though. Different teams have different values for players based on a bunch of variables. We’ve seen players sign for much less than we thought (Edwin Jackson) and players sign for big bucks (Fielder/Votto).

            • Ted Nelson

              Oh, I agree. It’s a very, very difficult question. It’s a big part of what separates GMs on a spectrum of great to terrible.

              My point was just that if someone raises that question, simply saying “well it’s the market price” isn’t a valid response.

              Something like if I asked you “do you like that red car over there” and you responded “that car is red.”

              • Plank

                You figured it out. I’m just that simple-minded.

              • Plank

                I’m glad you acknowledge it’s a complex issue then assume my brief answer meant the most nonsensical thing you could make out of it.

                Next time I’ll be sure to post at least 2 paragraphs of the obvious so you don’t assume I’m a dummy again.

                • Ted Nelson

                  You didn’t even begin to address the issue. You simply restated what had already been said as if you were analyzing it. (“The car is red.”) You did the same thing the other day, forget what the subject was.

                  You’ve had all this time to explain what you meant if I misrepresented your point. How come you have not done that yet? Perhaps because your point was pretty straight forward and not hard to interpret?

                  • Gonzo

                    Can we just call a truce for one month and see how it feels after that?

                    Oh who am I kidding.

      • Plank

        I honestly didn’t even bother to figure out what his point was. I could tell he wanted to fight and I was trying to avoid it. I should have just turned the computer off.

        I wasn’t disagreeing or agreeing with anything. I made a pretty innocuous comment about the changing landscape of salary structure in MLB and got barked at incessantly for it.

        Good grief! I wish this site had filters.

        • Ted Nelson

          Aw, poor victim :(

          • Plank

            Seriously?

            • Ted Nelson

              You are the biggest thorn in the side on this site, and when someone points out your mistakes you flip and cry victim…

          • Plank

            You’re the angriest person I’ve ever encountered. I really hope you never have children. You’re a monster.

            • Ted Nelson

              Why do you insist on reading tone into my written words?

              How did you get anger from “Aw, poor victim :(?”

              • Plank

                What was the tone you were going for? Bullying?

                • Ted Nelson

                  Joking. A joking tone. Ironic I suppose. You constantly belittle other commenters, and then as soon as someone points out where you’re wrong you call foul. Rather than arguing back, you usually just curl up into a ball.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    It’s like Ron Artest giving a news conference about how the NBA is too violent and players are hurting him.

                • Plank

                  I’m feeling very attacked by you. I really feel like I’m being bullied. It’s preposterous since I’m a successful adult and this is a baseball website, but it’s still how I feel. I’m a human with feelings.

                  What about the other things? Are those jokes too?

                  I belittle other commenters? When do I do that? I said some not nice things to you in this thread, but that’s very out of character for me. Again it was because I felt attacked and you weren’t stopping.

                  Ok, I have to get off the computer and chill.

    • AJavierkei Pavagawnett

      I disagree that the prices for Fielder, Votto, or Pujols are necessarily “the going rates.”

      They’re only the going rates because a single team in each case was willing to pay them.

      Clearly, when you have teams extending young players into the early years of free agency, the value for what you are paying is much higher.

      Even before this season began, Matt Kemp’s contract made a hell of a lot more sense given its length and his age then these other guys. If Cano was going to be 27 next year and a free agent, sure why not? But he’s going to already be aging for a 2B.

      I think that the market has not caught to the new reality: without steroids and amphetamines most elite position players are not going to perform on a high level in their mid to late thirties (depending on the position).

      Of the Granderson, Swisher, Cano trio, Cano has the highest probability of getting a huge contract that looks like a disaster on the back end.

      Who knows what the farm system will produce? Who thought Cano was going to end up being who he is?

      I think that because Derek Jeter has been so good so long, we forget what happens to most middle infielders half way through their thirties. Look at Alfonso Soriano, Chase Utley,

      • Gonzo

        Is Ted Nelson your PR person or agent?

      • Plank

        They are definitely the going rates. I don’t see prices for free agents dropping any time soon.

        The question of whether the Yankees should sign top tier free agents because of the premium you need to pay for top talent is another question entirely.

        I think they should sign stars especially if it is a CC (first time situation) where they are still young.

        • Ted Nelson

          I guess I can teach you, huh? You finally understand the topic.

          • Plank

            You could have read into the first thing I wrote and assumed I understood the necessary topics (which I did and do) and had a constructive conversation. Instead you attacked me for being a jerk about saying the same thing he wrote (which I didn’t, I added new information to his point). Now you seem to think you are an educator to me or some weird father thing. You called me your son.

            Whatever it is, your behavior has been very odd today, you have said very hurtful and heinous stuff to and about me, and I don’t wish to have any kind of conversation with you regarding baseball or any other topic.

  • http://none GrandyManCan

    If this is a “contract year” for Nick, he’s always given us 25 and 85. Plus he walks. It’s a good fit for him and us.

  • Reggie C.

    This posts in this thread takes an all different bent if Cano was hitting like … Cano.

    He hasn’t done much of anything with the bat this season and until he does, I’m wary to project a $20 million per year contract …

    If cano’s numbers take a significant dive, the man will not get a Crawford sized deal everybody thinks Cano is going to get.

    • Plank

      They would have a different bent if Mike had endorsed keeping Cano, too, I think.

      • Havok9120

        To an extent, sure, but nearly all of the regulars are saying almost exactly what they’ve been saying since the end of last season.

    • BK2ATL

      Even with Boras as Cano’s agent, I just don’t see him getting the 6 yr, $120 million deal being bandied about here.

      We can use the following recent 2B contracts as a guide:

      Utley (7 yr, $85 million)
      Kinsler (5 yr, $75 million plus options)
      Uggla (5 yr, $62 million)
      Pedroia (6 yr, $40 million plus options)
      Brandon Phillips (6 yr, $72.5 million)

      • Plank

        Which of those were in free agency? You can ignore the rest. Also, what years were those signings?

        • Gonzo

          None of these contracts was a traditional “Free Market” free agent deals. They were all signed without the player being able to negotiate with other teams.

          • BK2ATL

            Well, no, but then those teams don’t adhere to the Yankees’ BS no-contract-extension crap. They all made reasonable, FMV offers to those 2B. So they are or were all in the same boat as Cano. Difference being that they were offered and signed extensions.

            • Gonzo

              Isn’t that the point? That we don’t know what the free market price is because no top tier 2b has hit FA recently. We may think it’s market price, but we can’t say that with certainty. It’s possible they signed above market value, at market value, or below market value.

              • BK2ATL

                Very true. I see that point.

                But if these top-tier 2B are locked in at a max of $15 million, and the Yanks offer Cano, say 5 yr, $80-90 million (or AAV or $16-18 million, which makes him the highest paid 2B in MLB), and Cano balks, well, I say to him, best of luck in his FA, but this may be where we part ways.

                • Gonzo

                  Yeah, I kind of agree. There’s more data to collect on him, but I expect to be in your camp. I might be already.

                • Plank

                  Isn’t that how every free agent negotiation works? There still isn’t a recent FA 2B comp available to compare Cano to.

                  • BK2ATL

                    That might be true, or you can look at actual 2B contracts right now and go from there.

                    Boras will do the Boras thing in FA and have Cano’s value at $22-25 million AAV. He’ll probably look at A-Rod’s and Pujols contract and start from there. It just takes one idiot to bite. Somehow, I don’t think Cashman is that idiot.

                    In fact, I’m pretty sure that he won’t even play Boras’ game, if it came to it. He’ll probably go to Hal and come back with a number that would be signed off on (probably closer to my guess), and Boras will have his ridiculous number, and Cano will be playing elsewhere, if he doesn’t step in and take Cashman’s offer.

                    It would be best if they extend Cano prior to FA, figure out Grandy’s number, then make a decision on Martin and Swisher.

                    The salary cap/luxury tax implications now dictate that different approaches must be considered, rather than the prior strategy of no-reupping prior to the end of a contract with no implications.

                    If they’re serious about hitting $189 million, then re-upping Cano and Grandy is just the smart move.

      • Reggie C.

        I’d take Cano signing a Kinsler-type deal in a ‘caine heartbeat.

        We just can’t underestimate Boras’s ability to create a field of interest. The man did get the Tigers to go $200 million in on Prince Fielder. I wouldn’t underestimate Boras somehow squeezing a 6 year, $120 million dollar deal. Boras’s binders actually produce results.

        • BK2ATL

          And I think Cashman would let Cano walk, if it came to that.

  • Alex

    I kinda thought about the possibility of the Yankees doing to Grandy what the Angels did to Torii Hunter and sliding him over to RF while sliding Gardy over to CF. Gardy’s defense has come a long way and Curtis has a nice arm for right. It’s a lot easier to find a LF than a RF at the right price. Maybe look into the Nunez as a LF experiment a little more over the offseason (although I’m not too fond of that), maybe a LF in-house option, or (and I can’t believe I’m saying this but…) Melky may be free…

    • OldYanksFan

      It’s an idea. Nunez currently has NO OF experience, so if he works hard all offseason, with his speed and athletism, he might be an average fielding OFer. However, I would put him in RF. He has a good arm, and would have a lot less territory to cover.

    • BK2ATL

      Very good idea as well. But I think they’d bring Andruw back as the fulltime LF, which definitely wouldn’t be a bad thing. 3 CFs in the OF, even though Andruw is a shell of what he used to be.

  • Paul VuvuZuvella

    What is Zoilo’s injury? How long will he be out?

  • Ted Nelson

    How about trade candidates? We don’t know who will be available for what, but all else equal that could be the best way to fill the spot. Push forward some of that Low A talent a couple of years through a trade for a below market contract.

    I wouldn’t write Zoilo off after 50 PAs this season. Still has the same chance as he did entering the season.

    Segadin could definitely contribute in 2014, or even ’13. Should get to AA this season, maybe fairly soon after 200 PAs there last season. Then start 2013 in either AA or AAA. He’ll be 25 by 2014… so if he’s ever going to contribute that would be a good time to start.
    Austin has a shot at 2014, though 2015 is more likely.

    “The 2014 payroll plan is really going to throw a wrench into the team’s roster plans going forward,”

    Again, this assumes that they were going to re-sign Swisher (and the rest of them) or replace him with a big FA. Last time their OFs started to depart, they replaced them with below-market guys through trades. And it happened to work out brilliantly, which doesn’t hurt the chances it happens again.

    • Ted Nelson

      *200 PAs “there” meant High A…

  • Reggie C.

    I’ve wavered on this topic In Previous open threads, but we all got to admit that the decision gets pretty clear if Cano ends this season off his numbers across the board. Im not going to play a guess game, but Cano might be pressing given that Boras likely has every intention of pushing for a massive extension after this season.

    It’s far easier to address starting pitching by making the bet Swisher maintains his abilities that produced consecutive solid years in 2010 & 11.

    I love Robbie’s game, but he’ll have to match his best season one more (twice more perhaps) before earning Crawford bucks.

    • Ted Nelson

      We’ll have to see, but I think most likely it’s just a hiccup for Cano. His .312 wOBA in April 2012 is similar to his .308 wOBA in May of 2011. Certainly could have a terrible year, but I think it’s more likely just a terrible month plus that he’ll bounce back from.

  • Dummies Playing With Balls (formerly Rainbow Connection)

    I wish the Yanks would be like the Rays and simply say goodbye to past-their-prime-overpaid babies.

    Just let them go.

    • Slugger27

      this is an odd comment. in recent years weve seen the yankees let matsui, damon, giambi, and abreu walk, all because they were 1)past their prime and 2)overpaid. and thats just off the top of my head.

      your point stands, but picking the yankees as an example is just confusing.

      • Dummies Playing With Balls (formerly Rainbow Connection)

        “but picking the yankees as an example is just confusing.”

        This is a Yanks site.

        Should I focus on the Astros instead?

      • Ted Nelson

        Rainbow Connection is a total troll. Not being rude here, really is. Makes nothing but random disparaging comments about the Yankees and commenters on the site. Wouldn’t waste your time.

  • BK2ATL

    Even with Boras as Cano’s agent, I just don’t see him getting the 6 yr, $120 million deal being bandied about here.

    We can use the following recent 2B contracts as a guide:
    Utley (7 yr, $85 million)
    Kinsler (5 yr, $75 million plus options)
    Uggla (5 yr, $62 million)
    Pedroia (6 yr, $40 million plus options)
    Brandon Phillips (6 yr, $72.5 million)

    • Reggie C.

      I’d take Cano signing a Kinsler-type deal in a ‘caine heartbeat.

      We just can’t underestimate Boras’s ability to create a field of interest. The man did get the Tigers to go $200 million in on Prince Fielder. I wouldn’t underestimate Boras somehow squeezing a 6 year, $120 million dollar deal. Boras’s binders actually produce results.

      • BK2ATL

        If it gets to that, I think Cashman will call Boras’ bluff and Cano will end up somewhere else with his $20 million/yr contract, but little chance of sniffing team success again.

        Let’s take a look at the teams with the money/need to absorb that…

        Boston – got Pedroia
        Tampa – need offense, no money
        Toronto – possible target, but tax implications, why leave NY?
        Washington – top 2B prospect on the way
        Texas – Kinsler
        Philly – Utley contract
        Florida – money already tied up, and attendance uncertainty
        Tampa – money issues
        Chicago Cubs – possible target
        LA Angels – Kendrick there
        LA Dodgers – possible target
        Seattle – Ackley
        St. Louis – possible target, but don’t see them spending the money
        Detroit – possible target, but again, don’t see the money being spent after Cabrera and Fielder
        SF – possible target, definite need for offense, money to be spent…

        Just off the top of my head. Cashman would be wise to try to extend this year, then start making up contingency plans. Swisher on hold as a backup.

        • RetroRob

          Tigers and Dodgers potential. Tigers because their owner will spend money just for the sport of it and has worked well with Boras in the past. Leyland also keeps blowing kissed Cano’s way.

          Dodgers because they look now to be big spenders.

          Yet trying to figure out a market post 2013 is damn difficult.

    • Gonzo

      None of these contracts was signed as a “Free Agent” deal. I don’t think they can be used as a hard guideline.

      • BK2ATL

        Well, no, but then those teams don’t adhere to the Yankees’ BS no-contract-extension crap. They all made reasonable, FMV offers to those 2B. So they are or were all in the same boat as Cano. Difference being that they were offered and signed extensions.

        • Gonzo

          I responded above.

          • BK2ATL

            I did as well. Somehow this double-posted.

            • Gonzo

              There’s a glitch in the matrix. There’s a glitch in the matrix.

  • Barbara Booey

    This article is nonsense. First it implies that signing Swisher could be worth it (a proven post-season failure), as opposed to trying to retain the best 2B in the game. Secondly it says that Kelly Johnson may command the same money Swisher will. Pure nonsense. And Andruw Jones in RF anytime a lefty pitches? No thanks. We need less guys who K, not more.

  • CC

    I’d rather keep Swisher than Cano. This isn’t in response to Cano’s slow start I just feel like, as mentioned above, Swisher has a skill set that is more inclined to age gracefully as opposed to Cano. The crux of that being Swisher’s insane ability to walk and Cano’s, not lack of the ability but, significantly lesser ability.

  • yankeegm

    Mike-

    Any chance you think Swish takes a 1 year deal to stay? I know he’d be leaving a ton on the proverbial table, but he obviously LOVES it here, we have a definate need, and we could go over market on a 1 year deal to make it attractive…

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      I highly doubt it. He may love it here, but he’s good too much lose with a one-year deal. Now’s his chance for a big payday.

    • RetroRob

      As Mike noted, this is his chance to cash in. Taking a one-year deal does nothing to help him. Sure, he loves it in NY, but he’ll love it in NY a year later too and he’ll be a year older.

      Swisher may not take top dollar let’s say if Baltimore comes in and if offering maybe two million more than the Yankees. If it was a 3/36 Yankees vs. 3/38 Orioles, then I could see him take a little less, but basically the Yankees will still have to pay market rate.

  • Tomm

    I agree this is nonsense. Swisher is appropriately named, at least when he faces quality big league righty pitching. In three years? He will be even worse.

  • Jesse

    I don’t know if this is in the comments yet, maybe it was before or after the Plank/Ted Nelson battle, but how about trading Dellin Betances for Dom Brown!

    /BeatingADeadHorse’d

    • BK2ATL

      I think the Phillies know what they have in Brown, while we still don’t know what we have in Betances. 2012 is a critical year for Betances, one way or another.

    • Gonzo

      I’d do it in a heartbeat. IMHO, I think the Phils could get better can get better value than Betances elsewhere.

  • Mike

    Many Yankee fans (and reporters) have advocated signing Russell Martin and letting Swisher walk as a way to keep payroll to $189M in 2014. Frankly, neither Martin’s defensive or offensive process meaningfully exceed Cervelli’s or Stewart’s. Rather than retain Martin and let Swisher walk, the team should retain Swisher and let Martin walk.

  • MWD1202

    Nick Swisher has been a very solid player for the Yankees, but the fact that he has been non-existent in the playoffs year in and year out needs to be taken into consideration when free agency comes around. The organization can’t afford to lock up a player long term if he has consistently failed on the biggest stage.

    • RetroRob

      Thankfully they didn’t take that attitude toward past players like Yogi Berra.

  • http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso

    So keep Swisher, let Cano go.

    ….I think I just had a mini-stroke.

    I’ve waited so long for him to be gone, don’t give me agita.

  • Fin

    If we as fans think Swisher is worth 3 yrs at ~13m per year, he will get more. There are probably several teams that would add a year to get him and maybe 1 team that adds 2. Look at the Jason Werth contract. Cano is complete wild card. All that it would take is one team going wild, which seems to happen with every super star now. It wouldnt shock me to see Cano get an 8yr 160m deal with Boras as his agent, if he hits FA.

    With Arods deal and Tex looking more and more like a bust after every game. I really dont see the Yankees competing for Cano against that one team that wants to break the bank. Cano could be the first home grown Yankee star in his prime that I can ever remember the Yankees loosing to FA.

    At the end of the day, as an objective fan, I have to think the Yankees are better off keeping Granderson and Swisher on shorter term deals than a long term deal for Cano. However, I really cant help but hope the Yankees do whatever it takes to keep Cano as he is my favorite player and I would love for him to be a life time Yankee in the footsteps of Jeter, MO, Jorge and Williams

  • http://www.upclosemedia.com/UserProfile/tabid/42/userId/2680/Default.aspx power amp application

    Thank you for some other great article. The place else may anyone get that type of info in such a perfect means of writing?
    I’ve a presentation subsequent week, and I am at the look for such info.