Nov
13

Blue Jays & Marlins swing ten-ish player blockbuster

By

The Blue Jays and Marlins are on the verge of completing a monster ten-ish player blockbuster that will send Josh Johnson, Mark Buehrle, Jose Reyes, John Buck, and Emilio Bonifacio to Toronto for Henderson Alvarez, Yunel Escobar, and various prospects. The deal is not official yet and reports are still trickling in about who those various prospects actually are, so I suggest checking out MLBTR every so often until this thing is finalized.

Toronto lost 89 games and a ton of players to injury last year, but this trade obviously improves their outlook for next season. We have all winter to analyze this deal and how it relates to the Yankees, but for now here’s a thread to discuss this monstrosity.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League

221 Comments»

  1. Steve (different one) says:

    If Selig’s ultimate goal was parity, he’s getting there

  2. MB923 says:

    Last year, they try to get Pujols. Now they have a team who makes half his salary. And half the Yankees 3B salary.

  3. Chris says:

    This is an embarrassment to MLB. How can anyone take this franchise seriously anymore? MLB needs to step in here. 100 mill and a new stadium to 16 mill in 1 season? No, that is not in MLB’s best interest.

  4. FachoinaNYY says:

    Holy shit…. what the Marlin’s owner has done is nothing short of criminal.

  5. kevin w. says:

    Thank God, the Yankees won’t have to get dominated by Alvarez anymore.

  6. Kvothe says:

    I do hope Loria gets sued for fraud. Probably wouldn’t be successful, but I hope and dream. My Marlins fans friends are rightfully pissed.

  7. Slappy McWaterbug says:

    It’s official. The Marlins really are running their team like The Show. Watch out for them to sign every free agent on the market now.

  8. William says:

    I don’t think that’s a bad BASEBALL trade. nicolino and marisnick are really good prospects, but they really ticked off the baseball this time. They’re probably going to get outdrawn by the AAA teams.

    • Laz says:

      I agree. Toronto has a deep farm, and they gave up several of their top guys. If JJ stays healthy this could be a nasty team.

  9. Joe says:

    Am I the only one that thinks its sad the red sox and marlins dump their entire payrolls in exchange for nothing and we will be stuck with arod until he needs a walker to get to the plate.

  10. forensic says:

    Worst organization in baseball. No plan whatsoever. Just waiting to pick out the South Florida/Hispanic connections for each of the players they acquired since that seems to be all they care about at this point (other than the massive amount of money they were able to dump with Reyes, and on turf, would anyone be surprised to see him be Toronto’s next Vernon Wells Memorial Albatross).

    I bet Mike Redmond is thrilled right now.

  11. Danny Ryan says:

    So this means that the Yanks are currently in talks to get Stanton and solve RF for years to come right? They have plenty of payroll for arod now… If only he will agree to a trade.

  12. KenC says:

    We should go after Stanton as there is no way he wants to stay in Miami now. He knows his time is coming soon. Considering what the Marlins got for JJ, Reyes, Buehrle, etc, I don’t see it being impossible that the Yankees acquire Stanton. That team is in shambles already. This is not even close to what all mlb fans saw from the Marlins only one year into their new stadium

  13. forensic says:

    WHat will be higher next year?

    The number of fish in the aquarium or the number of fans per game?

  14. Yankees & Canes says:

    At this point, we might be able to get Stanton for Phelps straight up.

    As a U of Miami fan, it’s sad to see what has become of the Marlins. They’ve always been my second favorite team and to see guys like Ramirez and Reyes gone so easy.

  15. dan gen says:

    189,189,189, yanks counter by signing an over the hill player who will accept one year deal..way to go sons of george

  16. MB923 says:

    7:14pm: As it stands now, the Marlins will send right-hander Josh Johnson, left-hander Mark Buehrle, shortstop Jose Reyes, outfielder Emilio Bonifacio, and catcher John Buck for shortstop Yunel Escobar, infielder Adeiny Hechavarria, right-hander Henderson Alvarez, left-hander Justin Nicolino, outfielder Jake Marisnick, catcher Jeff Mathis, and right-hander Anthony DeSclafani,
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#ceSG5TPL8EMMdbdq.99

  17. vicki says:

    okay, a tiny bit of context. the reyes and buehrle contracts are brutally front-loaded. still, no arrencibia surprises me.

  18. forensic says:

    The swap of Alvarez and Buehrle is actually good for the Yanks. Alvarez was annoying good against them most of the time this year while they have a history of destroying Buehrle.

    Reyes and Escobar are pretty even in terms of career numbers against the Yanks, and they’ve only faced Johnson once (he shut them down) so hopefully he just keeps getting hurt.

    • Angelo says:

      Reyes is still a much better player than Escobar.

      • forensic says:

        It’s not nearly as much as people may think though. In their good years Escobar may be about a win lower than Reyes. They both seem to have off years though, like Esconar this year, which makes it seem like a larger gap than it likely really is, especially when combined with reyes’ mostly out of line 2011. Pus, I could certainly see Reyes having a recurrence of his leg issues now that he’s on turf.

    • Angelo says:

      Reyes is still a much better player than Escobar.

  19. Frank says:

    Terrible trade for the blue jays! Don’t they know that one year deals are the new standard in baseball?? 40 year olds on one year deals for the win!

  20. RC aka oldmanalex says:

    Would you guys would of taken AROD for all those fools (johnson,reyes, Burhle,) with us picking up most of ARODS tab. Move jeter to 3b??

  21. RC aka oldmanalex says:

    Would you all have rather done AROD for (Reyes/Johnson/Buerhle) and we pick up a bit of ARODS change?

  22. mustang says:

    Can someone here give me a breakdown of the minor league prospects that the Marlins are getting? Maybe give me the Yankees equivalent

    • vicki says:

      i don’t think any are top 50; might not even be top 100.

      toronto still has young pitching and catching to make another deal.

    • Preston says:

      Nicolino is a really good pitching prospect, but he pitched in A ball last year, so obviously a lot could happen between now and then, call him a LHP Campos? Jake Marisnick is an OF prospect you made it to AA and struggled this year. He’s probably a little lesser than Tyler Austin. I’ve never heard of DeSclafani, but he’s also only in A ball. I wouldn’t have hated this trade if they’d gotten Gose instead of Marisnick and Arencibia instead of Mathis, but as it stands it looks like a straight salary dump.

  23. Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

    Funny how most commenters initial reaction to this trade is to bash Loria for the Marlins latest fire sale. If the Yankees had pulled off this heist instead of the Blue Jays, everyone would instead be singing the praises of Cash Ninja.

    I guess perspective is everything.

  24. I Collect Brett Gardner Cards says:

    stanton had this to say on twitter.

    Alright, I’m pissed off!!! Plain & Simple
    Giancarlo Stanton
    2 hours ago

    oh boy

    • awesomeo says:

      Thought you were just trying to be funny… He actually did say that… wow. Hope he demands a trade.

      • steve (different one) says:

        he can’t “demand a trade”.

        • awesomeo says:

          He can start acting like a jackass until they trade him. I’m pretty sure they just had a guy do that…

          • steve (different one) says:

            I wish he would, but he’s just too far away from FA to have any sort of leverage. He hasn’t really made any money yet, he’s not going to start a war with the team.

            • awesomeo says:

              deĀ·mand/di?mand/Noun:

              An insistent and peremptory request, made as if by right.

              Verb: Ask authoritatively or brusquely

              Sounds like that is perfectly possible for him to do. Hell, I could demand a trade of him by definition. We want to debate right? This is fun.

        • Preston says:

          He can demand it, they can just say no.

          • awesomeo says:

            Then he can pull the Hanley Ramirez Circus that seemed to work quite well. Just play about 70% until they get sick of looking at you boot balls, and jog to first. What are they going to “demand” he play better? Good luck proving it. I would show this childish team how a real child gets shit done. I wouldn’t blame him an ounce.

    • Knoxvillain says:

      Stanton to Yankees, please. I can wish.

    • I am not the droids you're looking for...(I believe that children are our future) says:

      More awkward than Karl Rove on election night.

  25. jonathan says:

    So does this now clear space for Arod to be traded?

    Arod + considerable amount of contract (100 million) for Kyle Skipworth and Adam Conley?

    • RetroRob says:

      If A-Rod approves a trade, it won’t be to the Marlins. That was just manufactured news. Better chance of working out a deal with the Dodgers, a team and city where he’d play.

      Yet he’s not going anywhere. The best chance to move A-Rod is hope for a healthy season and some level of rebound like Soriano in Chicago. That will take his deal down to four years remaining, and with a positive story to tell, then the Yankees would have a better chance to move him, although they’d still have to throw in a lot of dollars.

  26. Knoxvillain says:

    If any big name player signs with the Marlins in the future they deserve whatever happens to them. The Marlins are a complete joke. My God. I feel bad for Tino now.

    • Jamey says:

      I wouldn’t feel bad for Tino. He knew exactly who he was going to work for & anyway he’ll probably get fired by Loria for not turning all of his players into All-Star hitters by July.

      I’m willing to bet he’ll get a text from Girardi in the next day or so that simply states “Tried 2 warn u” though.

    • Herby says:

      Tino will be fine…the Marlins weren’t going to do anything next year anyway and this way he’ll get to work with a lot of young players that will actually listen to him. With a new manager as well, it’s really not a bad situation for him. Now if they could only do something about that owner.

  27. RetroRob says:

    This will make the Jays better, but probably not to the degree people will assume. They lost 89 games last year. Reyes is roughly a 5 WAR player now, replacing Escobar, who was 2 WAR. Could be even higher as he had an off year last season. The main upgrade is Johnson on a one-year rental. Probably a 3 to 3.5 win improvement over Alvarez. Mark Buehrle might actually be a negative in the AL East at this point in his career.

    They’ll be tougher, but they’ll need some of their younger players to step forward from what they did last year. If the other pieces fall their way, they could replace the Orioles as the third team in the Yankees, Rays, _____ race. Yet we have to see what all the other teams do too.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      Zips has the jays as a 90 win team after this trade. I’d say they are significantly better.

      http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb.....arlins-mlb

      • RetroRob says:

        Not too far off. I saw a few predictions they were a 95+ win team, which is way too high. Now it’s quite possible if all their young players take a step forward, but I see them at 86-89, which puts them right into the third team and a contender. I’m expecting the Orioles to drop back next year, but as noted, it’s just too early. This will cause reactions by the other teams and it’s also quite possible the Jays will attempt to improve even more.

        Yes, the division is tougher.

      • Laz says:

        But not necessarily. I don’t have insider, but that probably assumes that he pitches ~ 200 innings. He could really dominate the east if he is healthy.

    • awesomeo says:

      They were missing their Lawrie, and Bautista for a lot of the season. They just got a lot better. Not to mention a 200 innings eater albeit only probably 4 era, but also someone who has the potential to be the best pitcher in the AL.

      • RetroRob says:

        Every team has injuries. The Yankees were hit by many throughout the season. They both will be hit next year. Lawrie was overrated going into 2012. I expect more from Bautista. Expect less from Encarcion.

        It is the nature of fans to assume all will go wrong with their team, and all will go right with the competition. Just look at all the past postings here on RAB everytime the Red Sox would make a move, yet they just got worse and worse. That’s just the fun of baseball.

        Yes, the Jays are better. How much is to be determined.

        • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

          With the Yankees unlikely to make any major acquisitions, you could probably make a good case for every team other than the Red Sux to potentially win the division.

    • Anthony says:

      Agreed on that last point. I don’t think this makes the Jays an automatic playoff team, but definitely up there with the Rays. I just hope they’re not as annoying as the Orioles this year.

    • dalelama says:

      With our rotting core and barren farm system they could replace us.

  28. awesomeo says:

    The owners are going to get mad that the marlins are signing guys to above average contracts only to dump them. It will just continue to inflate player salaries.

  29. Neil says:

    Great, Jeff Mathis is out of the AL! No more Yankee mashing for the worst-hitting catcher in MLB. Now to persuade the Fish they really need Ciriaco from the RedSux and the Yanks are set. Oh and Mark Reynolds too.

  30. steve (different one) says:

    Cleaning off my pants from visions of Stanton in pinstripes, let’s talk more realistically.

    Is LoMo worth a prospect? He sucked last year, but was decent as recently as last year. Yankee stadium wouldn’t hurt either.

    The teams doesn’t seem to like him, but he is cheap, and that seems to matter more than anything else.

    Honestly don’t know, it’s a bet.

    • Knoxvillain says:

      A prospect? Sure. But not a good one. He’s always been overrated. I’d give them Adam Warren at best, but his salary might be too high.

    • Bo Knows says:

      He was supposedly dealing with some lingering injury issues this season, so there is a decent chance of him bouncing back

  31. Dicka24 says:

    It’s a salary dump, but Hecheveria is the Cuban SS the Yankees lost out on to the Jays. He’s supposedly going to be pretty good. The other prospects, namely left-hander Justin Nicolino and outfielder Jake Marisnick, got some upside as well. Still, major salary dump, for guys that can still play at a high level. Reyes and Johnson instantly make the Jays a lot better. Beurhle will do his thing too. 200 innings of solid ball. Big if is Johnson staying healthy. If he does, think of the Jays rotation:

    Johnson
    Romero
    Morrow
    Buerhle
    Drabek/Happ

    Always an if, but “if” things go right, that makes the Jays a lot better, and makes the AL a little tougher for the Yankees. Of course the Redsox shouldn’t be as good, so maybe it evens out in the end.

  32. MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

    Having a serious premonition right now:

    Arod + $45mm + Ivan Nova + Michael Pineda + Tyler Austin

    for

    Stanton + Nolassco

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      Double the $$ and they may not die laughing.

      • MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

        Come on here. I’m having fun with this one..I actually do believe that would be enough money.

        • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

          I think you’d need to include prospects just to try to convince a team to eat all but $45M of ARod’s contract. Forget about getting anything back, much less a great piece like Stanton.

          • MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

            It’s been documented on baseball american or reference or one of those publications that Arod’s actual worth is $7m-$10m per year based on present estimates. That would peg him at about $55m-$60m for the next five years, which I actually think is right in todays market place. He may not get a 5 year offer, but for a team like the Marlins specifically who could utilize his skill and name brand, they would go a little more. I mean the guy isn’t that bad. In fact, he’s still pretty good. Youk might get a 2 yr deal in the neigborhodd of $20m and Arod is definitely better. Age aside. There is a certain intangible here that I am having a hard time explaining, but there is something about being a business owner and YOU HAVE TO HAVE something. What if Loria and his crew really do want Arod for star appeal? Sure, Arod is one of the more polarizing players in the sport, but he still has a huge fan base, including me. I think a lot of people here have a lot of resentment towards him, understandably, but I think people should be a little more objective when looking at him and his value for other teams, specifically, the Marlins.

            • MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

              *Baseball America

            • steve (different one) says:

              The problem with this is that you say the Marlins have to have something to market, but they already do: Stanton.

              Swapping him for A-Rod doesn’t do too much in that department.

              I suppose A-Rod in Miami would sell some tickets, but Stanton is a pretty marketable star himself.

      • kevin w. says:

        And add Mason, Sanchez, and Phelps and take out A-Rod because he won’t accept a trade and MAYBE they don’t laugh.

        • MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

          I love how people think Arod is this bad and neither you or I knows what he is really thinking “no trade clause” Maybe the guys would go if under the right terms. I think it’s more amusing that people are easily ruling it out. From a business stand point, you’ll never know what will happen 30 minutes from now. I’ve been around deals my whole. Stuff I thought could never happen, I’ve seen happen. Sure, throw in Phelps, but Mason or Sanchez wouldn’t be necessary based on my original offer.

          • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

            It’s not that ARod’s bad. He still has value. But he’s in decline, and has 5 years and likely at least $120M left on his contract. If he was a free agent, do you think Miami, or anyone else, would offer him anywhere near the 5/$75M that would remain if the Yankees only ate $45M?
            I can’t imagine any team would come anywhere near that, so why would a team give up an extremely valuable piece for the “privilege” of doing so?

            • MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

              You’re making fair points and I’m having a very hard time explaining it, but I 100% believe along with the other right pieces the Yanks could move (provided Arod wants that) him and $45m to the Marlins. Maybe $55m ($114 – $55m = $59m left for the Marlins). Sure the Stanton jabber is just that. I’ll admit that, but if you start buildings another big package back to the Marlins, anything is possible. I can never ever rule something out based on the lunacy of deal making I’ve seen in my life. We can disagree. It’s just my feeling.

          • kevin w. says:

            Ohkay, you’re 100% wrong about everything you said. Everyone in baseball is bashing the Marlins organization after this trade. Why would Alex Rodriguez approve a trade to a dysfunctional organization with no plans to contend anytime soon? He has a chance to play for a top notch organization that will contend to some degree every year. Think about it, if you were him would you consider moving from the Yankees to the Marlins right now? No you wouldn’t. Nobody wants to play for the Marlins right now. I never said he’s bad, and for that reason it also doesn’t make financial sense to eat all of Alex Rodriguez contract to have him play for another team. If anything you’re the one acting like he is bad because you want to pay him to go away. Hes still more productive than the average third basemen.

            Second, yes Mason AND Sanchez would have to be added to your trade to even have the Marlins LISTEN. Ivan Nova was horrible last year and is probably a 4th starter at best, as he was predicted to be his whole career. There is no indication the second half of 2011 was an indicator of his true talent. It seems at this point he just caught fire and did well a while. So if he couldn’t crack the rotation here, why would the Marlins want him as the center piece? They also wouldn’t want Pineda because he his coming off potentially career threatening surgery. There is no guarantee he will ever be an effective pitcher in the MLB again. Tyler Austin is projected by some as a 4th outfielder and as an average regular by others, you won’t see many people predicting him to be a star. So basically you want the Marlins to take a 35 year old declining injury prone third basemen with baggage, a fifth starter, a pitcher who may never come back and a potential average player who hasn’t played more than a week in AA for a 23 year old top-10 player with four years of team control left? Think about it if the Yankees were to take that trade if they had Stanton. That would be a HORRIBLE deal. So yes, the Marlins would want potential superstar players in return for a franchise cornerstone and that trade proposal is 100% a joke. You’re not even close to proper value for Stanton.

    • MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

      Yankees promptly then acquire Anthony Rendon from the Nats for Brett Gardner and Jose Campos.

      Resigns Ichiro for 1 yr at $6.5m and Ibanez 1 yr at $3.5m.

      Pettitte calls on Friday and signs for 1 yr at $5m (base)

      Boom. Off season over.

      • William says:

        Wow. I like that. I really do.

      • kevin w. says:

        Anthony Rendon has 160 professional plate appearances, 82 above A ball and he his .162. So yeah you’re idea totally makes sense. Replace a Hall of Fame player with a player who hit .162 in AA and can’t stay healthy.

  33. Preston says:

    SS Reyes
    3B Lawrie
    RF Bautista
    1B Encarnacion
    DH Lind
    LF Rasmus
    C D’arnaud
    CF Gose
    2B Bonifacio

    SP Josh Johnson
    SP Brandon Morrow
    SP Ricky Romero
    SP Mark Buehrle
    SP Drabek/Hutchinson

    That’s a pretty formidable roster, obviously both Morrow and Johnson are injury prone, and Romero was awful last year. Plus Lind and Bonofacio aren’t ideal, but it’s a lot of speed and power in the lineup and a lot of K’s in the top of the rotation. If everything falls right this could be an excellent team next year.

    • kevin w. says:

      Lind was awful enough to get DFA last year, Bonifacio and Gose and to a lesser extent Rasmus can’t take a pitch, not to mention Gose and D’arnaud haven’t had any MLB success yet. Johnson is injury prone and Romero was TERRIBLE last year. Assuming Encarnacion’s season was for real, the top four in the line-up is the real deal, the rest is spotty and 3/5 of the rotation have question marks. It’s obvious they’re a better team now than yesterday but everyone gets lost in these huge moves and then get disappointed when the teams dont live up to expectations. There are still holes in the roster. If everything doesn’t go exactly right, it could be a .500 roster.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Can say that about a whole lot of teams. Most likely I think they will be pretty good, but far from excellent. They’re counting on a lot of unproven youth, bounce backs, injury prone guys staying healthy (Reyes as much as the SPs)… The potential is there, but it’s also high risk. Especially if Johnson either doesn’t step up or walks after the season.

  34. Big Member says:

    Okay…this will sound completely insane but I had a few beers.

    Reyes’and Buehrle’s contract are very back loaded. I think it’s clear that Miami was looking for an all or nothing run this year, ie make a lot of money on ticket sales. If the team would had been successful they would hold onto these players.

    From my far from perfect calculations, Miami will save 50 mill in just 2013. What if they go out and give Hamilton a Reyes-esque deal, with the contract back loaded to the final years. Lets say, he’ll just earn 15 mill in 2013. Then, they sign Greinke (20 mill in 2013), and one of Sanchez/Bourn/Swisher for 15 mill in 2013.

    If the ticket sales increase and Miami makes the play offs, the team will stay the same. If the team bombs, Hamilton, Greinke and Sanhez will be traded in a similar deal.

    Rinse and repeat?

    • steve (different one) says:

      This is great.

      I think the only fly in the ointment is that those guys won’t fall for this again, they won’t sign with the Marlins.

      • RetroRob says:

        Yeah, that’s a big problem. Any free-agent is going to know they will be traded. It’s going to make it difficult for the Marlins moving forward if they want to acquire real brand-name free agents.

    • Francesa says:

      Like Daffy Duck famously said, I can only do that once, Bugs. Players will not want to sign a deal with them without a NTC. It’s why they didn’t sign Pujols.

  35. steve (different one) says:

    Piggy-Backing on what Vicki said above, this is what the Jays just acquired:

    Jose Reyes – $82M/4 ($4M buyout in year 5 paid by the Marlins)
    Buehrle – $48M/3
    Buck – 1 year $6M
    Johnson – 1 year $13.75M
    Bonifacio – 3 arb years, something like $4M/6M/9M?

    Buck and Bonifacio aren’t very good. Johnson is obviously very good, but a huge injury risk and only signed for 1 year.

    The other two guys are being paid market rate, though getting Reyes for 4 years is a coup even if they are paying him $20M+/year.

    It’s a good trade for them, but they did take on a ton of money and both Reyes and Buehrle can demand trades after this year.

    • Ed says:

      The “demand a trade” right went away 2 CBA’s ago. I think the last player allowed to do it was Javy Vazquez when he demanded to be traded away from the Diamondbacks.

  36. awesomeo says:

    Feel really bad for the marlin fans. I’m reading their forums right now and they are heartbroken. They were lied to. I hope this converts a lot of them to be tampa fans. I know I would feel pretty much scammed if it were my team.

  37. steve (different one) says:

    Here’s a thought: the Red Sox could have made this trade.

    • awesomeo says:

      Wonder if they are going to go after Cano?

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      I think the lack of Jeff Mathis would have been a deal breaker.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Doubt it. The Jays gave the Marlins a starting SS making only $15 mill the next three years, a 22 year old SP with 5 years of control, a promising young SS prospect, a top 100 OF prospect, a top 100 caliber LHP prospect, a back-up C, and another SP prospect. People are discounting the value they got there. And assuming Johnson and Reyes will finally live up to their potential on an extended basis magically. Not saying they can’t, but it’s far from assured that they will.

  38. McLovin says:

    And Boom goes the Dynamite

  39. awesomeo says:

    Now they can just sign Greinke, Cano, and Hamilton. If it doesn’t work out just dump them in 2015.

  40. Cuso says:

    Like it or not, balance of power in the AL East is on the verge of shifting dramatically. Once Hamilton gets his 5-year (maybe even 6) deal with Baltimore, things are going to look extremely different.

  41. Giancarlo Stanton says:

    Come get me Yanks!

  42. DT says:

    Why is Loria allowed to own a Team?

    • MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

      It’s a question I’ve asked myself for a few years. How he was approved/voted in by the other owners is beyond me. What were dealing with isn’t some rich guy having a midlife crisis. This is a guy who’s “life” seems to be perpetually in crisis. We don’t know him, at all, but most of us have enough business savy to know we can do it better and that he is doing it wrong. How the other owners didn’t pick up on this 12 years ago is very odd.

      • awesomeo says:

        Didn’t Selig make him sell the Expos or something? I don’t think the other owners are going to be happy about this. If I was a player and the Marlins offered me 30% more than any other team to play with them as long as I don’t get a NTC I do it. If I’m another team owner who was actually interested in one of these players I’m pissed though. The Marlins are not making many friends on the Owner, fan, or mlb level I’m sure at this point. They may have even brought scrutiny from the feds at this point.

        • MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

          I just don’t know. Are the Nationals technically the former Expos and the Marlins are a true expansion team? I forget. I do agree with you however, I wouldn’t be shocked to open a paper in 2016 and see “Jeffrey Loria investigated by the SEC or IRS” or some other financial governing body.

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      MLB let’s this guy and Frank McCourt own teams but is against Mark Cuban.

  43. awesomeo says:

    Wonder what John Farrel is thinking right about now… hahaha.

    • MP IV is Not the real MP aka Ro says:

      I just don’t think he was happy there. It wasn’t a great fit in my opinion. Based on the little I know, I’m not sure Farrel is a complete manager. Meaning, he seemed great as the Sox pitching coach, but I was never sold on him being “the manager”. Again, we don’t know him. It’s just a vibe. But I think the Jays are in good shape now having to get someone new and I don’t think Farrel really cares about what’s happening in Toronto at the moment.

  44. John says:

    its funny that no one is talking about how this might be a bad trade for the jays … i mean dont get me wrong on paper its great for them … but buerhle is not that good and in the tough AL he will struggle … then there is reyes .. he is so injury prone and how many people actualy think he is going to to hold up in the turf at rogers center.

    • awesomeo says:

      Worth the risk imo. Even if they don’t work out the Jays have the money to do this, and if Johnson comes back to something simmilar of what he was he they will have a good chance at resigning, or extending him. I would offer him an extension right now.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Excellent point.

      I don’t think this it’s a bad trade. I just think it may not be the huge difference-maker folks are making it to be.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Most commenters on here are not worth paying attention to. They are hysterical.

      The Jays got a lot of talent and a whole lot of name value, but also took a whole lot of risk. They blew their financial wad and gave up prospects and relatively cheap players to do it. They might have spent the same money in free agency plus lower profile deals and gotten better players without giving up as much in return.

      Also lost in the hysteria is that the Marlins now have a ton of $ they can go out and spend. I agree that they’re a terribly run franchise, but in and of itself this deal might not turn out to be a loss for them. The salaries they cut mostly looked like bad or at best fair value. They brought back some talent. They were the 4th worst team in the NL last season. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of that is organizational/clubhouse culture, but they could easily win more games in 2013 if they make a couple of wise signings.

      • Chris says:

        Don’t hold your breathe on Loria re-allocating his new found savings on free agents. Past on his track record, this trade was more about saving cash than reshaping his rebuilding his roster into a contender. Aside from a few league-minimum signings to fill out his roster, I don’t expect a whole lot from him.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          I mostly agree. There’s still value in cutting all that salary without necessarily losing much in long-term expected production. I don’t know that they’ll make big free agent splashes, but I do think they’ll spend some.

    • DT says:

      The Trade still suck in a year or two. Reyes will be overpaid and declining. Josh Johnson is injury prone and has only a year left so he’ll cost money to keep.

  45. LK says:

    One thing we know for sure. At some point in the next few years, Stanton will be traded or hit free agency. No way in hell he re-signs there now.

  46. Randy says:

    The issue I have with this deal is it allows the Marlins to pocket more money while franchises like the Yankees have to deal with unofficial salary caps to continue business. I don’t understand why the focus is continually on reigning in successful profitable teams in the name of parity, but then there are clear instances like the Marlins who have repeatedly shown the propensity to take full advantage of the system without any regard. They are crooks in my opinion. They were dishonest to their community and are in my mind stealing money from major league baseball and the other teams. It’s disgusting.

    • Ryan says:

      So true. I still dont know why cheap a$$ Loria can own a team, but MLB wont let Cuban own a team. Makes no sense, Loria does not care about winning or fans while Cuban would do everything possible to put a winning product on the field.

      • Randy says:

        Agreed, but I think Cuban rattles the cages way too much for their liking. Baseball isn’t big on progressive thinking from the ownership positions.

  47. Ted Nelson says:

    The sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  48. Rigoleto says:

    “Choate said a friend compared it to a fantasy football trade that would be nixed by the league manager.” – NY Times

    What I don’t understand is, why would Bud Selig perfunctorily approve a deal like this? I think approval is only required if a certain amount of cash is changing hands, but don’t the reprimand of Loria from a few years back, the new stadium, and massive payroll shedding warrant some sort of intervention or warning? Or is this truly outside the jurisdiction of the commissioner?

    • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

      Exactly. If it were the Yankees and not the Blue Jays making this trade, the rest of the league would really be up in arms.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      I have no idea, but this isn’t as bad a deal for the Marlins as people seem to think. They gave up a whole lot of name value, but in terms of future performance they didn’t necessarily lose the deal. Johnson is the only guy I’m really that pissed Toronto got. Reyes and Johnson are injury prone. I’m actually a fan, but Buerhle isn’t getting any younger and is a risk in the AL East. Buck isn’t particularly good. Bonifacio isn’t good. They bring back a starting SS at $15 million total for the next 3 year (…which should be a much, much better value than Reyes), a talented SS prospect with 6 or 5 years of control, a top 100 OF prospect, a very good LHP prospect, a back-up C, a serviceable 22 year old SP with 5 years of control, and another RHP prospect.

      The Marlins might very well “win” that trade when the dust settles.

      • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

        You must be kidding if you think Reyes is just “name value.”

        Sure he’s had injury problems in the past but he’s averaged over 600 plate appearances per year over the last 3 years and he’s still only 29 years old. He’s the 2nd best SS in terms of WAR over the last 3 years, barely behind Tulowitski and last year he was 4th. He’s easily one of the best shortstops in baseball.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Try to read what I wrote. I said they gave up a lot of name value, not “just names.”

          The Marlins got Escobar back. Escobar has averaged less than 1 fWAR fewer than Reyes the past 5 seasons, and is due $70 million less for only one year fewer. He’s pretty likely to be a better value than Reyes.

          Alvarez should be a much better value than Buerhle.

          The Marlins basically got 3 top prospects for one year of Johnson. They also dumped Buck and Bonifacio, paying $ 4 mill and taking back Mathis.

          I don’t think this was a huge win for the Marlins, but I also don’t think it was a loss. I think it was fair. The Jays have big upside is Reyes and Johnson, but at market value. The Marlins have big upside in 5 or 6 guys who are all cost controlled.

          • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

            Reyes has been worth 13.6 WAR compared to 8 for Escobar over the last 3 years. He’s a much better SS than Escobar. He’s essentially got 5/$100 left on his deal and I’d be comfortable his contract won’t turn out to be a burden since he’ll be 34 when it expires.

            I read your comment and you basically dismissed Reyes part in the trade because he’s “injury prone” when in fact he’s been the 2nd most valuable SS in baseball over the last 3 years.

            Judging the reaction around baseball by executives I’ve seen quoted as well as baseball analysts, you’re pretty much the only person who doesn’t think that the Jays got by far the better end if this deal.

            • Herby says:

              How did those two compare with just last year in consideration, not with Reyes walk year figured in?

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Again, value for money. Yunel makes a small fraction what Reyes does. This was not a one-for-one trade and this is not an individual sport.

              If you don’t think Reyes’ contract is a risk… I don’t know what to tell you. 34 years old is not young for a SS.

              The media reaction to a deal is not a good way to judge it. A lot of GMs aren’t any better.

              I did not dismiss Reyes. You read that into my comment because I didn’t praise him.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Why is your three year comparison more valid than my five year comparison, by the way? You can argue it’s more recent, but it’s not like these guys are old. They’re one year apart in age. I can argue mine is a more appropriate sample size, especially for an injury prone player like Reyes.

          • Andy Pettitte's Fibula says:

            And if that’s not good enough for you, try reading this written by someone far more expert in these matters than either of us.

            http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb.....arlins-mlb

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Nice appeal to authority. Get real. I have my opinion on the matter. I have gone to great lengths to explain why I feel that way. You are not going to change my mind by showing me an article from an unemployed scout.

      • Preston says:

        Even if this wasn’t a terrible baseball trade (it wasn’t a particularly good one, although I would be wary of both Buerhle’s and Reyes’s contracts), there is an incalcuable cost to the Marlins in public opinion. They made a big splash a year ago signing Reyes, Buehrle and Bell, now all three are gone, these are people not just baseball commodities. And those people will cease to want to work with you after you make a long term commitment to them one day and trade them the next. In addition Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez were also dumped. All of these trades brought back nice pieces. But all were also considered fairly underwhelming. It seems clear that the main intention was to cut salary. Would the Jays have been willing to give Gose instead of Marisnick if the Marlins hadn’t shipped them the 6 million dollar dead weight of Buck? Would the Dodgers have given up Lee instead of Eovaldi if the Marlins had eaten even a tiny portion of his salary? I don’t know, but in all of the trades the Marlins have made lately cutting salary has seemed far more important than bringing back baseball assets. Whether that is true or not, it is a permanent perception that they will not shake until they have new ownership. I think the Marlins would have trouble convincing even those most marginal of FA to go there now and just as much trouble convincing even the most die hard fan to buy a ticket.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          You act like cutting salary is a bad thing. When the Red Sox made a worse trade they were “clever,” though a bit desperate. When the Marlins do it they’re pathetic idiots who are ruining baseball. I think that reaction has a lot more to do with the Marlins overall track record compared to their Sox’s, and not the actual trades. You point to a trend in your comment even, you don’t analyze trading one year of a hobbled ace and a few bad contracts for a decent return. Again, I think that this was a solid baseball deal for the Marlins.

          I think the negative is more with their fans than free agents. If they offer guys more money, they will still largely sign. They might miss out on some guys, but there are a lot of reasons free agents sign one place instead of another. The Marlins have done this time and again, and they still get plenty of guys to sign.

          I also agree with those who say this is a poorly run organization, horribly run even. I just think people are reflecting their opinions of the org on their opinions of the trade.

  49. Robinson Tilapia says:

    Whatever happened to the good old days of SuperCubanAgent Joe Cubas having guys jump over the centerfield wall after a game, defecting, and signing with an MLB team? Surely we can him to get Stanton to escape Miami this way and bring him to the Bronx.

  50. I am not the droids you're looking for...(I believe that children are our future) says:

    It’s like they watched Major League and said cool let’s do that! Except they already got a new stadium. A year ago.

    JHC.

    Terrible terrible. I feel really bad for Marlins fans.

    • Yankonymous says:

      Marlins fans? Feel bad for the Miami-Dade county resident who doesn’t even like baseball.

      • Chris says:

        The real losers in all of this.

        • Yankonymous says:

          This is exactly why public funds should not go to these stadium deals specifically for private sport franchises who the public has no control over.

          If our taxes go directly to allowing these private businesses to create a product and profit from it, shouldn’t we get some control over the operations, or at least a percentage of the profits?

          Andrew Cuomo should be the GM of the Yankees.

  51. Billy balls says:

    Awhile back I proposed a crazy trade which after seeing this trade may not have been that crazy. The marlins could have put fans in seat with this trade.
    Yanks send:
    Arod with remaining contract
    Cano
    Nova
    Marlins trade:
    Reyes with remaining contract
    Stanton
    Josh Johnson
    This trade would have made more sense for marlins as cano could walk next year and nova costs nothing and they could have filled stadium.
    As far as Yanks it would have been hard trading cano but his demands are so high that getting a Stanton back and putting Reyes at second wasn’t worse idea. Arod close friends with loria and yanks only pay 20% of remaining contract and take in all of Reyes remaining money which equals itself out.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      I strongly disagree that your proposal makes any sense for the Marlins. Cano walking is a bad thing. You want cheap players you control for long periods. That is what the Marlins got in this deal. Look into the talent they got. People dismiss it because they haven’t heard of those guys, but they got some studs.

  52. stuart a says:

    marlins owner lauria is all that is wrong with sports and americna business.

    he is the lowest form of a scoundrel…greedy manipulating scum….

    lucky the extorted the citizens of south florida….

  53. Herby says:

    I’ll be curious how the trade shakes out in the standings next year, Buehrle has a lot of innings on his arm and curious how he’ll fare in AL east, Johnson we’ll see how he holds up, and Reyes could be an adventure on the turf. It could be great for them, but in the long run it’ll probably be somewhere in-between and not the balance of power changing trade that some “Insiders,” are claiming it can be.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Totally agree. Great points. Those “Insiders” are also paid to sell their articles. They tell us everything that happens is the biggest deal ever.

  54. Rigoleto says:

    “In attempt to acquire all Hispanic dudes with weird names, Marlins now in discussions to acquire Ubaldo Jiminez, Jhoulys Chacin, and Jenrry Mejia.”

    • I am not the droids you're looking for...(I believe that children are our future) says:

      I hear they’re also in on Yeicock Calderon.

  55. Kosmo says:

    Miami in the longterm might have gotten the best of this trade. Miami can also flip one of Echevarria or Escobar to a team looking for a SS which could for example translate into a good pitching prospect. Toronto has improved their SP but expecting a repeat from Encarnacion or an MVP caliber season out of Batista IMO is a stretch. Lind is awful.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Thank you! Some sanity.

      Not to mention it’s only one year of Johnson. The option to re-sign him before he hits FA has some value, but that would be around market value. The Jays got talent, but they’re paying an awful lot for it in terms of $ and what they gave up.

      Along with the Jays not necessarily being a top contender still, the Marlins aren’t likely to get much worse next season. They were already 4th worse in the NL with 69 wins.

  56. Duh Innings says:

    Real simple:

    Contract the Marlins, move the Rays to Miami, demolish Tropicana Field.

    Great trade, but I don’t think it turns 73-win Toronto into an 86 or more wins team.

    85 wins tops.

  57. Yank the Frank says:

    I feel bad for Tino.

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