Jan
10

Hal Steinbrenner speaks, and you’re not going to like what he has to say

By

(Mike Stobe/Getty Images)

MLB’s quarterly owners’ meetings are taking place right now, and Ken Davidoff managed to catch up with Hal Steinbrenner for a few minutes today. The team’s owner confirmed they have not had any serious talks about an extension for Robinson Cano (not new information) and acknowledged the club still needs a bat, but that’s not all. There’s more…

First thing that comes to mind: lol.

Second thing that comes to mind: The Yankees have a natural edge over the rest of the league because of their market and it’s immense money-making capabilities. Scaling back payroll even for one year is, frankly, a disservice to the fans. Doing it for multiple years is pretty close to a slap in the face. The Yankees aren’t hurting for money. They just built a new stadium and will receive hundreds of millions of dollars from their YES Network deal with News Corp., not to mention all the extra cash they’ll receive from MLB’s new national broadcast agreements. Hal’s dangerously close to saying “I know you know we make all this money, but not only are we not going to reinvest it in the team, we’re going to rub it in your face too.”

Whether they realize it or not — they don’t based on Hal’s comments — the Yankees are losing the PR war right now. The record-low ratings in our Fan Confidence Poll are not an accident. Fans are angry because they’ve done nothing to improve the team this offseason and plan to cut back on spending next winter. We’re not splitting atoms here, it’s pretty obvious why people aren’t happy with the team. If ownership and front office are truly oblivious to that, then things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

Brian Costa has a full recap of Steinbrenner’s quotes, just in case you want to slam your head against the table a little more.

Categories : News
  • Adam

    It will be evident when the fans just plain dont show up to games. A poor team will equal more open seats and that will not just be in the Legends seats.

    People dont give a rats ass about a new stadium anymore. If the team isnt winning, people wont go. Its that simple.

    I think this team is in trouble and most fans are looking at this team through rose colored glasses.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      They should be ok in 13 if they add another bat and they avoid the injury bug but 2014 could be a rough yr.

    • dalelama

      Once again the ability of the Dal E to predict the future is validated. 1965 here we come!!!

    • Laz

      This is still a pretty damn good team though.

    • http://RiverAvenueBlues TimGoYanks – Everett, WA

      Adam – you hit it right on the head! It seems it’s going to take the fans not showing up before Hal gets it in his head how folks across the globe follow the Yanks because they are WINNERS; they epitomize success!! I feel sorry for the players and Cashman who are caught in the middle of this mediocrity $$$ saving game that Jr. Steinbrenner is currently playing. I can only imagine what Big George must be thinking from his vantage point in baseball Heaven.

    • Ted Nelson

      When they actually lose games, then start worrying about it. Otherwise, relax.

      • dalelama

        They lost their lost four in a row when it mattered…get worried their foundation is rotting quickly.

    • Andres

      I do not see how this is a bad thing Hal Steinbrenner explained himself convincingly.The Yankees do make alot of revenue and seats are not cheap but what are we debating or expecting? Are we saying the Yankees to pay 75 or 90 million to teams every year to have a line up that maybe wins the World Series? Payroll level as he said does not guarantee a championship.They do have costs like paying off the debt on a new stadium that no taxpayer is paying for and that they built be it on a sweetheart deal on a realestate that I think shows the Yankees are not all greed. The Yankees trying to refocus how they do things and betting and investing the farm through the minor leagues is smart. The early 90’s dynasty did not have a payroll anywhere near these levels even with appreciation and they still won and one year managed to win 117 games. He did nto say he would not spend to compete he just said he can compete and spend less money I mean really or the alternative pay even more jacke up price to watch the Yankees while they give A-Rod style contracts? Sometimes being a fan means being reasonable not delusional.

      • Kimble

        I think you mean the late 90’s when they won 117 games. That was 1998 not the early 90’s. But you are right, the Yankees didn’t spend a lot back in those days because they didn’t have to with all of the talent that Stick Michael groomed in the minors. The minute 2001 ended, the spending and eventual losing in the post season started with the big signing of Giambi to be followed by many other bad contracts.

    • robert semkus

      Saving money at the fans expense. Will tickets go down ? Right and the “check is the mail”

    • ethan

      13-year season-ticket holder who just canceled.

      screw you Hal.

      I’ll watch on YES, I’ll buy my tix online, but I’m not going to continue to pay your absurd prices. ESPECIALLY with the bullshit that $189 is going to continue past next year. I actually get trying to go under for one year — the math is pretty clear — but if you don’t immediately start bulking up again after that than fuck you.

  • Blake

    They were never going to get under for a year then spend wildly again…..they are gonna want to keep payroll around the cap limit so they can get back under again and also to keep things lean in case Hal wanted to sell.

    They started thinking smaller like 4 years ago when they passed on Holliday…..

    • Ed

      A team that’s a favorite to make the World Series is worth more than a team with a low payroll. If he wants to sell, it’s better to win than to skimp on payroll.

      If you’ve got a crappy team that needs to do a rebuild, that’s when you’re more attractive to a buyer by skimping on payroll.

    • Havok9120

      It’s not “in case Hal wanted to sell” but “so that luxury tax and revenue sharing payments are kept to a minimum.” If you go a bit over a year or two at a time the penalties aren’t all that terrible. It’s pretty sensible fiscal plan.

      • Ted Nelson

        No, we should all riot because they haven’t won 95 games in like 3.5 months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We’re doomed!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Hal Steinbrenner

    Let them eat cake.

    • Gonzo

      I also would have accepted Let them eat NYY Steak.

      • JMK

        Well played, Gonzo. Well played.

  • AnthonyD

    Yankee ownership is getting dangerously close to Dolan level loathsomeness.

    • Jersey Joe

      Agreed. Every quote I heard from him just drove me crazy. From a baseball/metrics stand point, in my opinion, Hal is out of the loop.

      • ajra21

        Completely agree with how they have decided to cut back on the payroll. It is the correct thing to do and I’m completely satisfied with this choice. It is the best decision they could make.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          They’re doing it at the wrong time.

          • Laz

            When is the correct time? $189M still buys you a damn good team.

            • The Big City of Dreams

              Not when most of it is tied up in players at the end of their career in decline or hurt.

              A good time would have been when were in a better situation roster and prospect wise. Even the best case scenario has the A ball players being 2 yrs away.

          • ajra21

            They are doing it at e time they have to. It’s that simple.

    • Short Porch

      Look let’s just say it — George owed his two great runs – 76-81, 96-2001 — to the fact that he was far away from The Yankees.

      The Steinbrenners are arrogant buffoons — only slightly better than that homunculus James Dolan. The Yankees won despite them.

      They stick the tax payers with a huge bill for Yankee stadium III, do really stupid things like put Arod’s crippling contract on the books, and then tell us ‘sorry, we can’t spend more on the team.’

      I hope I live long enough to see the Yankees owned by somebody else besides this odious family.

      And the horse they rode in on. What an embarrassment to the sport, again and again. And I say this as a die hard Yankee fan of 40 years.

      Any one of us could have booked more championships than these moronic, criminal bullies.

      • Moneytalks

        Are you thinking of buying a team anytime soon?

    • Ted Nelson

      You probably don’t know much about James Dolan.

  • Bill

    Sell the team get an owner that wants to win

    • Slu

      I think I am ready for new ownership. Hal needs to stop running the Yankees like it is a La Quinta Inn.

      You are right Hal, you don’t need a $220 million payroll to win the Series. But you do to make the playoffs 17 out of 18 years.

    • Ted Nelson

      Did you bother to read what he said?

  • Blake

    It’s annoying when Hal treats the fans like they are dummies…..like when he fudges the numbers on how much they are gonna reduce payroll or says stuff like “after all we’ve done this offseason”.

    Yankee fans can be crazy but a vast majority know their stuff…..you can’t wrap a Kevin Youkallis up in a now and try to tell us you’ve made a major upgrade to the team after subtracting Swisher and Martin…..etc

    • Matt

      We need a mark Cuban like guy !

      • JMK

        Owners would never let it happen.

      • TrollHunter

        This

    • Ted Nelson

      Yeah, they only committed pver $60 million between Kuroda, Pettitte, Mo, Youkilis, Ichiro, etc. this offseason!!!!!!!!!!

      Sign Hamilton and Greinke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sign Bourn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sign everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • The Big City of Dreams

        No one is saying they should have done that.

    • Moneytalks

      I would say the vast majority of any teams fan base isn’t dumb, but they also don’t care about the long term success of the team, they are invested in the now. Ownership can’t do that.

  • rick

    “improved team” lol. how about a follow up question, how can a reporter let that go.

  • Mark in VT

    I guess I don’t see what the big deal is. It’s not like he saying the need to go down under $100 M. $200M is a LOT of money. More than the vast majority of the other teams. How is it a slap in the face to want to tone it down a little? Yes, I understand that the Yanks make bank hand over fist. But the hole idea of owning a team is to make money. And to maybe not throw $300M at one player in the future is good business. (If the Yanks weren’t paying ARod, they’d be under $220M and no one would be complaining). I’m interested in seeing how Cashman and Co. attempt the new challenge.

    • jjyank

      I tend to agree. The $189 plan kind of sucks because of existing commitments (A-Rod, Tex) but in a vacuum I don’t get the outrage. Even outside of the vacuum, I don’t get it. It’s not my money, so I don’t WANT them to reduce payroll, but I certainly understand why they want to.

      *shrug* I’ll still be the happy-go-lucky optimist Yankee fan who is thankful I didn’t grow up a fan of one of the other 29 teams, regardless of if the payroll is $180 mil or $220.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        The outrage comes from the one advantage they have is now gone. They don’t produce major league prospects at a high clip and they are cutting back on spending. So what is their advantage?

        • jjyank

          So the outrage is over a more level playing field? And even then, $189 mil is still higher than most franchises. The advantage is still there, it’s just not as large. Again, *shrug*

          • LK

            The advantage is still there, and it IS just as large, because the advantage is the New York market combined with the history of the team. The outrage is that the owners seem to be deciding to willfully reduce the advantage the Yankees have over other teams in order to make more money.

            If what you’re saying is that it’s just baseball, so you shouldn’t get outraged over anything, that’s fair. But if you think it’s appropriate to get outraged over the Yankees, and you’re not in the least upset over this, then I don’t think you’re fully acknowledging what’s going on.

            • jjyank

              Yes, I would be the former there. I don’t get outraged over my hobby. Period, end of story.

              • LK

                Perfectly acceptable opinion. However, I would suggest that you try to explain to people why they should not get outraged at all, instead of trying to explain to them why this in particular is insufficient to produce outrage. I don’t think you will (or should) win the latter argument if you start from the standpoint that getting outraged about the Yankees is OK.

                • jjyank

                  I agree with Havok down below. The “outrage” by some gets way too overboard sometimes. And trust me, I have tried to explain that calming down a bit might work out better. It doesn’t work.

                  • LK

                    Fair enough. There are certainly plenty of people who can’t be reached…probably best not to talk to them at all.

                    • Mark

                      The issue is not outrage because it is a wasted emotion which ownership wii not recognize. As for limiting spending, in markets where the owner’s income is limited, one might understand. Keep in mind that the Nyy not only bring in unreal revenue, they spent 23 million dollars on an investment now worth 1.5 billion. It’s hard to listen to an argument for fiscal cutbacks in such a scenario.

            • Havok9120

              I understand what’s going on, but a lot of this is coming down to a sense of entitlement. We don’t have a right to demand Hal spend more of his (and the other partners’) money just because we’re Yankees fans. The advantage is great, but a lot of it was due more to the owner than the market. It was great that GMS (and Hal and Hank for a few years) were willing to spend at the expense of sense and profitability. But they’re the ones taking all the risk.

              For the record, I also say “it’s just baseball, why the outrage,” but there’s a valid argument to be made as well. The upkeep of the team demands an annual investment of more money than I am ever likely to see and they’ll still be outspending the vast majority of the league. They’ve simply decided to cut out the artificial costs of the luxury tax and revenue sharing.

              • LK

                Of course we don’t have a right to demand that Hal spend more; I think everyone realizes that. We certainly have a right to be unhappy with the fact that he’s not spending more.

                • Havok9120

                  I think you’re giving a lot of people here too much credit. Maybe I’m giving them too little. But “unhappy” doesn’t cover this, and past threads on this topic have certainly gotten onto Hal for neglecting his “duty” to spend on the team and how it’s wrong for him to maximizing profits.

                  Being unhappy or ticked is perfectly fine. But a lot of people are going beyond that.

                  • LK

                    I would certainly agree that there are a lot people going way too far. I guess I just don’t understand the “shrug…oh well” reaction to this. I don’t live or die by the Yankees but I do care about them, and this unquestionably makes them worse off.

                    • jjyank

                      Because I think they’ll still be a competitave team even with this plan, and I appreciate the rather historic run they’ve been on since 1996. So yeah, shrug. I don’t know what the future holds. Maybe a few prospects pan out and the Yankees make a buy-low Swisher-esque trade that helps them two years from now. Who knows? That’s why I shrug now.

                    • LK

                      I get why you’re not tearing your hair out. I’m not either. But they can hit on some prospects and make some awesome trades whether they’re spending $20M or $300M; they’re not mutually exclusive.

                      The owner of your favorite team has decided to make that team worse. Your reaction is to shrug? I guess that’s fine, but to be honest if I cared that little I don’t think I’d follow it at all.

                    • thenamestsam

                      Okay, but even if the prospects pay off, and they make a great trade…wouldn’t they still be better off if they ALSO added a $20M a year free agent. This doesn’t mean the team is screwed, but they’re undeniably worse off with a lower payroll.

                    • thenamestsam

                      +1 LK, you were faster to the punch and said it better than I could.

                    • Gonzo

                      +1 LK

                      This is a very reasonable and measured approach to all this.

                    • jjyank

                      Yes. I think they’ll still be a good team. If I were them, given the new CBA, I might do the same thing. So yeah, fucking shrug. I don’t think they missed out on any great free agents this year anyway. Let’s wait and see how things play out.

                    • LK

                      TWO +1’s? That’s it for, you’ve been great, goodnight everybody!

                    • Havok9120

                      Part of it for me is we don’t know what the impact will be yet. We have no idea. The people angry right now are angry over possible repercussions rather than actual repercussions. No free agent this season that the Yanks “missed” on came without pretty serious red flags. Even Martin, who I think was probably the best fit for the team out of all FAs, has been on a fairly steady offensive decline and has only been kept above the Mendoza line by eking out a stellar month per season.

                      If Cano gets a reasonable deal which the Yanks refused to match for purely budgetary reasons after which the team’s performance collapses, then I’ll be mad. For now we’re just getting ticked over possibilities when we don’t even have all the information.

                    • Havok9120

                      Meanwhile, I’ll also say that this is one of the most reasoned approaches I’ve seen to all this, which has the side effect of me enjoying this conversation. So thanks very much for that LK.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            It’s still higher than most franchises but this is the Yankees. Their mistakes have been covered up by having the money to correct them. They want to lower payroll and turn the roster over but the young players are at least what 2-3 yrs away from just joining the team not even being major league regulars.

    • Ed

      If the Yanks weren’t paying ARod, they’d be under $220M and no one would be complaining

      That’s the issue right there. Winning within $189m should be possible. The problem is that the existing, big money, long term contracts make that hard to accomplish. It’s even more annoying when you realize that A-Rod is a large part of the problem, and that basically everyone but Hank realized it was a dumb contract the instant it was announced.

      If the goal was a gradual reduction over time, and our prospect development was working out better, most people would be fine with it.

      • thenamestsam

        I also think saying: “Oh if we didn’t have ARod we’d be just fine getting under $220 is a bit of an oversimplification.”

        Could they have signed ARod to a better deal? Probably. But realistically how much better? If you wanted to reisgn ARod after 2007 you were still going to be paying him today. No question about it. I mean maybe you get him for 8 years, 220M total instead. But unless you cut ties with him entirely (and don’t replace him by signing a different primiere FA who would have required his own long and bloated contract), you’d still be playing him a pretty penny today. Or you give back the 2009 World Series.

        My basic point is that it’s easy to say “Oh we just need to avoid the albatross contracts”, but it’s incredibly difficult to acquire and hang onto front line talent without giving out those contracts. It’s all well and good to say it about ARod, but lets see how Yankees fan feel about avoiding bad deals when Cano is wearing a Dodgers jersey in 14 months.

        • Slu

          Plus, there was no concept of a budget then. Many had the opinion “pay him whatever! There is more in the vault.” I know I did.

        • Kimble

          I think it is fair to say that if Arod had signed with someone else back in 2007, that whoever the Yankees ended up getting would not have cost them anywhere close as Arod’s contract did.

    • Moneytalks

      Well said.

  • Havok9120

    Ahhahahahahahaha

    *gasps*

    This thread is gonna be freaking amazing. I’ve really never understood why people thought they’d spend wildly on multi-year deals after 2015 (the second year under gets the revenue sharing rebates) to begin with.

    • jjyank

      Eh yeah. Mike kinda baited the trolls with that headline.

      • Hoss

        Good thing the organization has lemmings like you to make fun of the “trolls” so they know their place.

        • jjyank

          Optimistic fan =/= a “lemming”.

          Such language just makes you look like a troll. Which, for the record, you’re not. I disagree with you on a lot, but you’re not a troll. But for those that are…fuck yeah I’ll put them in their place. I had den gen in mind when I said that, for example.

          • Hoss

            Then stop characterizing everyone who disagrees with you as a troll. There are plenty of valuable contributors who think that the organization is in the wrong on this issue. Anyone who disagrees with Cashman gets slammed in this forum as well and slapped with a troll tag.

            • jjyank

              When have I done that? Where did I call you a troll, or anyone outside of dalelama, Eddard, stuart, and a select few others a troll just for disagreeing with me? Get over yourself dude.

              “Slamming” someone on a point I strongly disagree with does not equal me labelling them a troll. This is a concept you seem to have trouble understanding.

        • Havok9120

          Oh for God’s sake. In what universe is it more reasonable to decry “cheaping out” on the team while spending nearly 200 million dollars in payroll than it is to say “it all depends on how it’s done. We need the farm to work.”

          Disagreeing with you doesn’t make us idiots or lemmings. It just means we disagree with you.

  • nickswishahisastahtingpitchah

    Spending $189 and having the highest payroll in baseball is a slap in the face? It doesn’t really matter if they have a new stadium and make hundreds of millions or what they use the money for. It’s about what happens on the field. If the Yankees can’t win with 189M too bad

    • LK

      You do realize the Dodgers play in MLB right? You may have heard that they’ve had a bit of a spree lately.

      • Havok9120

        I will be interested to see how long they maintain it. But yeah, for the foreseeable future, they’ll have the highest payroll.

        That said, I think we’re going to easily remain in the top 5 for the entirety of that time frame.

        • LK

          Haha, if they fall out of the top 5 in payroll, THEN we’d see some outrage!

          I agree that it’s hard to imagine them not staying near the top regardless of how budget-conscious Hal gets.

      • Moneytalks

        The Dodgers haven’t been spending $200+ on payroll since 2001 though and the moves they have made haven’t exactly paid off as of yet either.

  • There’s the Door

    Sure seems like Hal cares more about money than about championships.

    • gc

      Only if you believe that the only way to win is to spend more money than every other team, by a lot.

      • There’s the Door

        No, even if you don’t.

  • ClayDavis

    I think when the Cano negotiations are going to speak volumes regarding the team’s philosophy moving forward.

    • ClayDavis

      That is I think the Cano negotiations will be speak volumes

    • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

      I agree.

      I know I’m just another idiot on an internet forum and my opinion is pretty meaningless, but I don’t think the Yankees resign Cano in any circumstance. Hope I’m wrong.

  • Mark in VT

    It took me forever to type the previous post and when I finished, all I see is comments that make it sound like the Yanks gave up. THEY ARE SPENDING $200 million! Why shouldn’t they spend more wisely? Are you saying that the only way the Yanks should try and improve the team is by spending wildly? It would be different if in a couple of years, they don’t get a player that the need because of the $$. But wait until that happens. Give them a chance first.
    Sheesh.

    • Jerkface

      Spending wisely means dick if the player you spend falls off a cliff or gets injured. The Yankees monetary advantage meant they could spend around those mistakes, or acquire players in trades that no other team would take on.

      Reducing payroll when its clearly not even necessary means they have lost their 1 advantage, and they are doing so at a time when there is absolutely no way to put that money back into the team in other ways. IFA & Draft are capped.

      The Yankees made the playoffs damn near every year because their payroll was orders of magnitude larger than everyone else. At the payroll range they are talking about now, they will be on the same level as teams like Boston & Phillie, and close to other big spender teams.

      They are willingly throwing away their advantage. Hard to be wise when good players cost money, & you can’t do much in the draft or IFA.

      • Mark in VT

        I think that Boston and Philly have a similar advantage. Maybe not quite as much, but when was last time the Yanks spent 20% more than Boston? And why can’t they use their $$ advantage over most teams (but a bit less) AND be smarter buyers?

        • Jerkface

          They can’t use their money advantage because every team is getting richer (each team gets an extra 25 mil per year starting in 2014 for example) and the luxury tax limits include benefits that the team must pay regardless. The Yankees have spent 20% more than the red sox like every year ever. The highest the Sox have got to was 175. The Yankees were at 210. And the Sox did not end the year at 175, they traded half their roster.

          You have severely underrated how much more the Yankees have spent in the last decade compared with their peers.

          And really I don’t see how one can be ‘smarter’ in a field where prices are escalating and more teams are locking up their players. As I said, being smarter doesn’t protect you from unforeseen collapses or injuries, but money can!

          • Gonzo

            You have severely underrated how much more the Yankees have spent in the last decade compared with their peers.

            This is very true. I don’t think people realize how much the Yankees spent in relation to other teams over the years. Even traditionally cheap teams are starting to spend more.

          • DC

            Financial flexibility can help you when injuries and bad performance strike; not money alone.

            • Moneytalks

              If the Yanks continue to spend over $220 million on their roster they won’t have financial flexibilty to make upgrades, but if they under the luxury tax threshold they will have more flexibilty. The more flexibilty the Yanks have the more dangerous they are.

    • Jerkface

      The Yankees should spend more wisely. They should spend the wisest 230 million dollars ever. Spending wiser should not mean spending less. The Yankees make money hand over fist.

      • LK

        Thank you.

      • Havok9120

        But it’s horribly inefficient, if for no other reason than the League wants it to be. I know I wouldn’t keep spending money at ever-diminishing returns just to eke out an extra 3 wins a season, and I’d have a hard time convincing the other investors to do the same even if I wanted to.

        • Jerkface

          The marginal value of those 3 wins is worth the price you pay, as those 3 wins mean playoffs or no playoffs. And playoffs for the yankees means an extra 50-90 mil in the bank

        • Jerkface

          And inefficient or not, all the ‘efficiency’ in the world doesn’t matter if you’re merely ‘efficiently winning’ 89-93 games a year, missing the playoffs every other year or more.

          You’re losing all that playoff revenue and the chances to win titles. I’ll take an inefficient dynastic playoff run the Yankees have enjoyed over the highly efficient ‘make the playoffs 2 out of 3 years once every 7 years’

          • Havok9120

            A) the playoffs matter, from a purely monetary perspective, far more to the League than to any individual team on a year to year basis. Playoff revenue is pretty strictly controlled by my understanding. They certainly aren’t worth 50-90 million dollars a season to the team. Over the long term, missing the playoffs for a year or two WILL have an effect on revenue, but not one any of us are in a position to measure.

            B) that’s fantastic that that’s what you’d take. That apparently isn’t what the partners in the 5 corporations involved in the decision making process would do, and I don’t blame them. From a purely fiscal standpoint, what you’re talking about may not be worth the investment. Can it be argued that it is? Sure. I might even agree with that argument. But strictly by the numbers, it isn’t.

            • Jerkface

              I’m not a member of the Yankee board of directors whose goal is apparently profits over playoffs. I’m a fan. I want the team to make the playoffs as often as possible, because that is the only way to win championships (making the playoffs) and I want them to win as many championships as possible.

              For the richest sports in the world I think they can spend an appropriate amount of money, even if there is potentially a more efficient way.

              Most ‘efficient’ $$/wins teams are only ever for 1 year or two, rarely over a long period of time. I want continual dominance of all competition.

              And as for the playoffs, there was an article on IATMS about the 09 run paying the Yankees 90 million.

    • Jonathan

      Dude they already didn’t get a player they needed because of money with Martin….That was a completely reasonable contract and ZERO fallback options barring an insane trade out of nowhere of someone nobody thinks is available.

      • Havok9120

        We KNOW that Matin had red flags. Would I have preferred to have him? Hell yes. I loved Martin and defended him for two years on this site. But he’s been trending downward offensively for four or so years. He was the best option, but the guy isn’t a no-doubter by any means.

  • stu phillips

    I am saying these things all winter.!!!!!!!!

  • trr

    Simple: stay home next year. That’l ne easy, ’cause they’ll be in 4th place by August….

    • jjyank

      No, and no.

  • The Big City of Dreams

    “We’ve signed three or four of the biggest free agents on the market.”

    —————–

    What????????

    • Jersey Joe

      Teams don’t improve with people 1 year older than they were last year who had good seasons (Kuroda, Ichiro). They don’t get better by having the same team, but older. (Not to mention Soriano – > Rivera, Swisher -> Ichiro)

      • The Big City of Dreams

        Very well said

  • Long-Past-His-Day-Rod

    I’m not a fan of the $189 million thing at a time when the team is pulling in big money, but I can at least appreciate the desire to get out of paying the luxury tax for the future. Fielding a championship caliber team on $189 million is much less of a problem once the enormous contracts come off the books. So even though I don’t like $189 million, I can accept it.

    I can’t accept Hal talking to fans like we’re idiots.

    • Yankee in CT

      Well said.

  • Countryclub

    I just can’t get angry about a 189 mil payroll. If it turns into 129 mil, that’ll be a different story.

  • BigBlueAL

    To me I just think the timing of the desire to cut some payroll is the problem. If the goal of a 189m payroll was being implemented in 2017 when the Arod and Tex deals are gone then it would make some sense and most fans would understand and agree with the thought process of not having a bunch of long-term, overpaid contracts. Having a 189m payroll w/o Arod and Tex’s contracts would be pretty easy to do while still having as great a team as we are used to having.

    But cutting payroll to 189m when there are still a few years remaining on those contracts severely impact the ability to field as competitive a team as we are used to having. I know the reasons they are doing so is because of the new CBA and luxery tax penalties but still its not looking too optimistic for next season especially for me if Cano leaves. Granted they arent going to become a 70 win team in 2014 but its not hard to see a team that wins in the low 80’s and misses the playoffs. Of course its not the end of the world if that happens but since I live in Miami and dont go to Yankee games and am not a season ticket holder paying a ton of money to see the team get worse for no reason except for perceived greed from ownership I personally have less to complain.

    But for 2013 I still believe the Yankees can and will win their typical 95 games and hopefully this time they dont all go into hitting slumps come at the same time come playoff time.

    • http://Tab Yankee+Marlin fan

      Agree totally. The timing is very bad…NOT a good offseason for me!

  • LK

    This thread is gonna be FUN…

  • thenamestsam

    Honestly very disappointing for me. I had held out hope that their plan after resetting the luxury tax rate in 2014/2015 would be to go to a cyclical plan where the payroll would swell for a few years than dip back under to reset the luxury tax rate. It seems like they plan to stay under $189 if at all possible though.

    Yes, it’s their team and they can do what they want with it. But a big part of the reason they have what is effectively a license to print money is because they’re not subject to anti-trust regulations. Because of that I do think they have some amount of duty to the public, and spending far, far less then they’re capable of doesn’t meet that criteria in my eyes. If this was a normal business a competitor would arise that was willing to spend closer to what they could afford but that can’t happen here.

    The Yankees can still win with $189 of course, but they’ll win less than they would with $220, or with $250. I don’t see how that can be disputed. So basically this decision makes you and me and every other Yankee fan worse off, and makes Hank and Hal a little bit richer. I don’t understand why I WOULDN’T be at least a little pissed about that.

    • KeithK

      It’s very much not indisputable that spending more always means winning more in baseball. The free agency era is littered with teams who spent lots and lots of money and got little return for it.

      On the whole payroll correlates with winning percentage. But it’s far from a prefect correlation and the law of diminishing returns will definitely apply.

      • thenamestsam

        Of course, but “on the whole payroll correlates with winning percentage” is the only thing that matters. If the team chooses to spend less, then they are choosing to win less in the long run. Over one season, or a few seasons, sure anything can happen, but you can’t possibly tell me that your expectations about how many games the Yankees will win over the next 5 years isn’t higher if I tell you they’re going to spend $250 instead of $189.

  • jruizpr

    I do not expect the Yankees to sign any player over 20 mil until ARod and Tex are gone, goodbye Cano.

    • trr

      If so, let’s trade him!

  • Chris

    It seems like this was a good year to be a bit tighter with the purse strings, otherwise 3 years from now they’d be in a similar situation of figuring out how to work around large, overpriced contracts.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      They’re going to be in the same situation in three years, don’t worry.

  • jjyank

    In some part of my brain, I’m glad the Yankees won’t be spending wildly. Sure, it was fun for awhile. Maybe it’s just my years in Red Sox territory, but I’m fucking tired of hearing the primary Yankee-bash of “oh, the Yankees just buy championships, Evil Empire, try winning without a blank check book, blah blah blah”.

    I see no problem with a more level playing field (and it still isn’t that level, $189 mil is still a very large budget) and nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise.

    • Wil Nieves #1 Fan

      The “Yankees buy championships” blabbering will never go away — even worse, it’s totally flawed logic to begin with.

      • jjyank

        Of course it’s flawed logic, and it may never go away, but it may diminish. My Red Sox fan friends have already mostly shut up with that line of argument.

        • LK

          I think if you base your opinion of the Yankees’ spending on how much grief your going to catch from Red Sox fans you have your priorities misplaced. I will gladly trade taking shit from other teams’ fans for wins all day, every day.

          • jjyank

            It’s a perk. I think I’ve explained elsewhere in this thread why I don’t care so much about all this. After our disussion above, you should know that’s not the primary, or even secondary reason why I don’t mind it.

        • Kimble

          Of course you did, since that would make both of you hypocrites if you did think that way (Yankees buying championships)

  • CashmanNinja

    I think some people are overreacting here. I get that the Yankees have more money to spend because of the market (and all of the new money that they’re pulling in), but I also see what Hal is saying. I don’t believe he said we’ll be at the payroll floor and be penny pinchers like the Marlins. I think that he basically said that the Yankees won’t be giving out STUPID contracts again — ones which will screw teams up. We gave A-Rod, Tex, CC, etc. tons of money. A-Rod’s contract is now looking horrible, Tex has declined a bit, and luckily CC is CC.

    If the Yankees were to subtract A-Rod and Tex’s contracts then they’d be doing well in their plan of getting under $189 mil. We’re stuck with those big contracts and I believe Hal’s comments hint that the Yankees aren’t going to shoot themselves in the foot while doling out large contracts again. They’ll still spend money, but they’ll be smarter about HOW they spend it. Don’t forget that after 2000 the Yankees threw out tons of money to free agents and their farm suffered as a result. Hell, just look at the article from this afternoon. The point is that for a while the Yankees started overspending for players. They wanted the best at every position and by the end of those contracts this team is full of aging players that are way past their prime, yet they’re also getting paid like an elite player. A-Rod has been one hell of a player, but there’s no way on Earth anyone could justify he’s worthy of all of the money he gets.

    I don’t believe the Yankees are going to go double digit years with Cano. Hell, they may not even go higher than 6. Why? Because by the end of the contract they’ll be paying a much older player for what he’s done in the past and not what he’s doing in the present. Hal’s comments really sounded like they were nothing more than saying they wouldn’t throw money around stupidly anymore. Why is everyone freaking out over that? Just because we have money doesn’t mean we should throw it around wildly. It’s one thing to absorb a few months of a player’s contract than to have a player for a long time and basically just stealing $$ from you by being a shell of their former self. Spending wisely is the better business AND baseball move.

  • Mike HC

    Hal: “Is our goal 189 next year? Yes. But only if I’m convinced if the team I see, that we’ve put together, is a championship-caliber team.”

    I actually thought this quote was a step in the right direction. Hal is not saying they are cutting payroll regardless of the outcome. He is saying he believes they can build championship caliber teams at 189, and if he is wrong, he will abandon the plan.

    I think Hal is right that the Yanks can still build championship contenders at 189. The part where it affects me personally, is that I really have less incentive to go to games. I have seen all these guys play live several times over. If the team signed Josh Hamilton, that would have got me back to the ballpark.

    • Mike HC

      In other words, “I want a shiny new toy!”

    • Havok9120

      Yeah, this is the part that’s starting to really wear on me. The positive things he’s said like that and the positive things he’s done (such as stretching out the budget for the “right player”) get steamrolled under the anger about any substantial reduction in the budget.

    • Improbable Island’s Dirty Midget Whores (Formerly RRR)

      The problem: He never said he’d abandon the plan.

      • Havok9120

        No, he hasn’t. Why should he have?

        I mean, announcing the payroll reduction was a fairly big PR mistake in the first place. They may make that up because of how it changes negotiations with FAs, but PR wise it was an error. It makes no sense to compound that error by saying “but maybe not. We’ll see.”

      • Mike HC

        He didn’t use those exact words, but he said 189 is the goal only if they can build a championship caliber team. The implication being, if they can’t build a championship caliber team at 189, that will no longer be the goal.

    • Jonathan

      Bullshit translator: “Even if everything goes bad and none of the top prospects are ready in 2014 I’ll still claim it’s a championship-caliber team and technically I’ll be true to my former word without actually believing what I’ve said.”

      • Mike HC

        You definitely could be right. Probably are. But at least it is something?

  • Magical Mystery Team

    “That’s one hell of a spin job there, Hal.” – Woody Johnson

    • Mike HC

      haha

  • Januz

    If you look at the Contract they signed with Fox, to get upfront money (Paid to the Steinbrenner Family) for YES and extended broadcast rights, coupled with the hard $189m payroll, you get the idea that within the next couple of years they are selling the team. Something else to keep in mind, all of the long-term contracts except Arod, Sabathia, Teixeira and Jeter are off the books after this year. Each year, even those numbers get decreased, and the value of the team increases. One more point: The most important thing to the Yankees this offseason is getting additional money for the Draft. The Organization knows that having success in the Draft, a strong Farm System and signing quality IFA’s will be the only way the Yankees of 2014 do not perform like the pre-Steinbrenner Yankees of the late 60s & early 70s.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      If they were going to sell the team, they’d want to control more of YES, not less.

      • Coolerking101

        While that’s plausible Mike, the fact that they are selling an interest in YES does not mean they aren’t going to sell this team in the short term. For all we know, they could believe the Yankees’ media rights have peaked in value, so they want to grab as much cash as they can immediately.

        • Havok9120

          Or that they’d want to increase payroll to increase value in prepartation for sale. Or that they would have bought up Goldman’s share themselves (it was for sale for something like 4 years). Or that they’d want to kill the budget entirely to increase profit expectations. Or….

          Any move they make can be made to look like they’re preparing to sell the team, because almost any move they make COULD improve the attractiveness of the Yankees for potential buyers. We have no way to know.

    • Steve

      What long-term contracts besides those 4 are off the books? Do they have any other long-term contracts?

    • Kimble

      “Something else to keep in mind, all of the long-term contracts except Arod, Sabathia, Teixeira and Jeter are off the books after this year.”

      What other “long term contracts” are there left then? You just named the only ones, except for Jeter, he was only at 3 years with the one year option for next year. Cano was not long term as relates to money, Granderson was on the Tigers contract and then the option picked up this year.

      What other long term contract are you referring to that was not named? You named every one, but yeah there is money coming off, basically the one year deals they spent this off season and Cano, Granderson but they were never long term.

  • Wil Nieves #1 Fan

    Another hoax by the government to try and get us to give up more of our rights.

  • Luke

    What would you like them to do, pay a combined 50 million for Hamilton and Greinke? They are in this mess because of Arod, Tex and CC contract.

    • Mike HC

      What mess? The won a championship in 2009 mess? Or the make the playoffs in every year mess?

      • LitFig

        Both! Making the playoffs and winning 5 titles in 16 years is the epitome of failure.

    • Hoss

      This is NOT a mess. The Steinbrenners, via their puppet Cashman, have made it seem like one and its gotten fans to care more about what a player’s salary is than how he plays in assessing whether he’d be a good fit for the Yankees. I’m sick of it.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        Go on any board every trade idea or free agent suggestion is proceeded by what’s his AAV lol

      • thenamestsam

        Exactly. The only reason it’s perceived as a mess is because Hank and Hal have somehow convinced everyone that $189 is the magic threshold that they can’t go above. If the Yankees budget was $230M or $250M or $270M (all of which they could easily spend) we’d be talking about how great a spot they were in, no mess to be seen. It’s completely self-imposed.

        In reality, yes, I would have liked to see the Yankees sign Hamilton and Grienke. The Yankees would be a juggernaut and Hank and Hal would still make money hand over foot. In 4 years when those contracts are awful you use the money cleared by Sabathia, Tex, Jeter and whoever else to sign more guys in their prime.

        • Havok9120

          Get above (or even around) 250 and what we know of the Yankees’s books means that you’re no longer spending Yankee money. You’re spending YGE money. It’s not the same thing. What’s more, it’s hideously inefficient. It is totally unreasonable to expect anyone to invest money at that large a market inefficiency.

          Of COURSE it would make the team better on the field. I don’t think anyone is disputing that (yet. I’m sure someone will at some point). Nonetheless, it isn’t a reasonable expectation for us to think a fairly large group of investors in control of the Yankees, YGE, and YES are all willing to keep pumping money in at diminishing returns.

  • mustang

    Don’t see what the big deal is the guy is just saying he wants to do more with less. So many here are always pointing to the Rays and how great they are with their budget. Hal see them and teams like the Giants and wants to be a bit more like them.
    Bottom line the kids on the farm are developing and really what big fish free agent team need have the Yankees pass on in the last few years?
    They went after Lee and lost him. Hamilton is an alcoholic and Greinke suffer from social anxiety disorder and depression. Not exactly the type of guys that would seem like a wise investment in NY.
    Now if Miguel Montero hit free agency this year and they passed on him then you might have something.

    In RAB own word: Patience

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErvgV4P6Fzc

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Hal see them and teams like the Giants and wants to be a bit more like them.

      —————-

      Then they have to develop as good as those teams do.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Then they’re going to need to suck for a while and grab some super high picks. Posey, Lincecum, and Bumgarner weren’t exactly longshot prospects who defied all the odds to become great big leaguers.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          That’s true they weren’t and if ppl hate 189 they will hate sucking for a few yrs.

      • mustang

        The Rays picks were all over the place and they manage to develop good players. Its funny this is the same site that for years has praised Hal for bring fiscal responsibility to the Yankees.
        Now that the hard decision are being made people are running the other way seem a lot like Congress.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          I think the praise he received was based on not signing players just for the sake of signing them. Or trading for players just for the sake of making a move.

    • Jacob

      Spending smartly and spending freely don’t have to be mutually exclusive. I’d like them to continue to make smart buys and focus on developing young talent but at the same time, I’d like the Yankees to maintain their payroll at one of the top 2 in the league given the huge built-in advantage they have of playing in a big market. I don’t want to hear some lies about how the Yankees have signed top free agents this year to cover up the fact that the team is most likely going to be worse this year, just be honest.

    • RFwarrior

      I agree with your view on this whole situation. I’m actually kind of stoked about the Yankees’ future because they will be looking to give the young guns more of a chance. I like when the teams wins, but for the long-run…it’s so much more fun to root for home-grown guys and watch them blossom or bomb so you can argue about who saw those trends all along. It would be nice to see them without overpriced, shell-of-his-former-self type players. Plus it makes the wins that much more enjoyable. Even if the guys aren’t home-grown – watching nobodies like O’Neill turn into something special is one of the best parts of the game. No matter how bad he was, I LOVED watching Chad Curtis and other experiments back in the day. I want more of that.

      • Slu

        Paul O’Neill was not a nobody before he got here. And there is a Chad Curtis type experiment every single year. Literally every year. Sometimes more than one. Enough with the rose colored hindsight glasses.

        It is ok to want to root for home grown guys. But that has little to do with this self imposed austerity.

        • RFwarrior

          Before his tenure with the Yanks, O’Neill was pretty much the definition of average if you want a more appropriate desriptor. The point being that he blossomed into something that no one really expected and not just for one flash-in-the-pan good luck year.

          And while I don’t disagree that there is a Chad Curtis experiment anually, I disagree that he has nothing to do with the new budget constraints. The less high-caliber players purchased, the more oppotunities there are to watch the newbies and nothings grow into something special on this team. For the last several years, the Yankees haven’t really given any position players but Nunez and Gardner a decent, extended shot to grow and learn….just a few injury fill-ins now and again. The leash is too short. Years ago – not so much. Now that might result in less wins, but I’d honestly rather watch a team exceed expectations with some unexpected youngings aboard.

  • Coolerking101

    I read Hal’s comments as further evidence that the current management’s priority is maximizing profits. This basically means that Yanks will be like most other sports franchises. Say what you will about some of the loathsome things George did, but he put winning above all else. It does not appear his children share the sentiment.

    If the Yanks are no longer willing to thoroughly outspend the competition (despite making significantly more money than most teams), the chances of more Yankee championships in the near future drops dramatically thanks to the albatross contracts on the roster.

  • LitFig

    Calm down.

    I really don’t see the issue with going down to $189 million. It’s not as if they are going from first to last in payroll. At worst they are going to 2nd, behind the Dodgers, who spent a grip last year and STILL finished 10 games behind San Fran.

    The most important thing for the Yanks in 2013-14 is the continued development of the farm system and the health of Pineda/Banuelos.

    Whether we spend $180 or $220, the season will STILL come down Tex and Alex being the big bats in the playoffs/stretch drive.

  • Gonzo

    It looks like the Yankees don’t want to pay more than anyone else has to pay in revenue sharing. This might explain why they went into a long term TV contract with YES. They don’t want to pay a larger % than the Dodgers when it comes to TV deals.

  • ThatstheMelkyMesaWaysa

    I can’t say I would be sad if both Hank and Hal fell into a deep ditch… Not politically correct? Okay. But seriously, a team can win with a payroll under $200 million, but as Mike wrote above, the team will be receiving ridiculous amounts of money from both the TV deals, and the stadium. I still don’t understand why the Yankees, who know they will bring in all of this money, are afraid of the luxury tax (which I now understand is higher than before) that they have been paying for years. They tend to make mega-signings every few offseasons, but it seems that anyone that would constitute a mega-signing, save for Stanton and Upton who may not be moved, is off the market. There is still time, however.

  • Mike HC

    I think you are missing a quote:

    Hal: “We are going to try to limit payroll so we can keep our ticket prices reasonable and allow every fan, rich or poor, to get a good seat for a game.”

    Oh wait, he didn’t say that?

  • trr

    Open the Bomb Bay doors, HAL!

  • Ethan

    I’m not totally against them cutting payroll below 189 but you HAVE to give something back to the fans. Cut ticket prices, concessions, SOMETHING. You cannot save $20m+ on top of all that additional money coming in and do nothing. If you want fans to be okay with it you have to 1) prove that you can do it (no more stupidly enormous contracts 2) give something back that fans can enjoy. Even then you might still have a hard time winning the PR war because of the way other teams including those in medium size markets are spending these days.

    • 189,189,189,189

      YOU MEAM YOU THINK THEY SHOULD LOWER THE 1500 DOLLARS TICKETS ..NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY DONT GET IT…………

  • Now Batting

    Does the $189 million dollar mark increase anually for inflation? I’ve been googling and haven’t found anything definitive. If so the Yankees could be well under it in 5-10 years. If not, well never mind.

    • Gonzo

      It’s a 5 year deal. The first two years (2012, 2013) were set at $178mm. The next three years (2014, 2015, 2016) are set at $189mm.

    • Havok9120

      Yeah, what Gonzo said. So it DOES adjust, just at a fixed rate rather than a floating one.

  • JU

    Am I a jerkoff because I don’t have a single problem with what he said or what he intends to do?

    • Wil Nieves #1 Fan

      Yes. Go back to Flushing!

  • Brooklyn Nets

    I’m hoping this is a ploy to stop getting FA and agents from using the Yankees as leverage. If not, fuck this team.

  • RFwarrior

    No, I don’t think JUs are jerkoffs.

    /Lame attempt at humor

  • Tre

    Ever heard of first world problems? Now we have Yankee fan problems. What a bunch of spoiled brats.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      It’s not about being spoiled.

  • Gonzo

    Is it too early to start thinking about the next CBA?

  • RetroRob

    Bottom line is the bottom line. If the Yankees don’t field a championship-level team, or they field an uninteresting team for a few consecutive years, it will hit their bottom line. Attendance will still be strong if they win, but it will trend down. We’re seeing some evidence of that already, despite a 95-win season. They’re down more than 200K the past two years. Plus, even they sell tickets in advance, if a higher than simply stay home, that’s less overall sales at the park. It will also impact on the TV ratings side, and the Yankees still own a large chunk of YES. The Red Sox a few years back saw a fairly large drop in their TV ratings when they built what they thought was a good team on the field, but was less than buzz-worthy.

    It may be that the Yankees FO is a bit like many fans. They’ve come to assume things. The fans assume the team will always win and yawn at another 90+ win season, and the Yankee FO may simply assume the fans will keep showing up in great numbers. For all we can say about George, the aspects he clearly understood was the business side and the marketing side, which ultimtely helped build the on-field product. By his words, Hal may be heading in the other direction.

    Or maybe it’s all just words.

    • Havok9120

      Yeah, we’ll see. Attendance around the league has been dropping the last few years, so that’s a somewhat misleading thing to both camps since it could mean anything.

      I dunno what’s going to happen. I’m more or less reserving judgement.

      • RetroRob

        I think that’s the perception, and it was true for a couple of years, but it’s not the case anymore. The most recently completed season was the fifth highest ever, and the highest since 2007. It’s also the second straight season with increasing attendance MLB attendance.

        That’s impressive considering the Yankees are down about 750K from their final seasons at the larger Yankee Stadium, while the Mets, NY’s other team, is down 1.8M from their final two seasons at Shea as they’ve gone into a rebuild mode. The Cubs are also down about 400K as they’ve entered a rebuild mode. So many of the major markets are down, yet MLB just had its best season since 2007. All the other markets have more than absorbed the decrease in attendance in NY, etc., and with the Dodgers on the rise again and the Mets return to winning baseball in the next few seasons, and most importantly the economy continuing to mend, MLB will continue to set attendance records. (The nine highest have been over the past nine seasons, even with the economy post 2007.)

        Yet the outlier here is the Yankees. They’ll never draw the nearly 4.3M fans in a season because the way their new park is constructed. Less fans, but more profit. Yet they have dropped 200K while continuing to win, and they did that over two seasons when MLB overall attendance increased. The Mets have an excuse. So did the Dodgers. So do the Cubs. What’s the Yankees excuse for dropping attendance over the past few seasons? They’re continuing to win, they have a recent World Championship, a brand new park, iconic players like Jeter and Mo, the return of a favored son in Andy Pettitte, and acknowledged ace in CC, one of the top players in the game in Cano, and even a player that many dislike in A-Rod (yup, that’s usually good for attendance and ratings.) The economy had improved, but the Yankees have trended down.

        I don’t mean to sound all negative. The Yankees continue to draw (#2 behind the Phillies) and are making lots of dollars. Yet I think there is a lack of excitement and that is contributing to some malaise. What happens if the Yankees drop another two or three hundred thousand? Then their road attendance drops? (They share in that revenue.) And they sell less merchandise? Less concessions? Less TV dollars for YES. At what point does Hal say, maybe this isn’t the right plan? Or will he give a shit if his profits are higher? If the last is the case, then the erosion will continue if the product on the field is less than compelling.

        That all said, I’m like you. I’m reserving judgement. If in the end they run a smarter operation that still wins and builds in more of the farm system, then that’ll be great. We just don’t know yet, which is it’s worth watching.

      • Jim Is Bored

        Oh God, don’t try to reserve judgment around here.

        Even though that’s what I’m doing too.

    • Hoss

      I agree with your POV. Hal needs some help in the PR dept. if his goal is to do anything but piss people off… he is obviously from the Tortorella School.

      It’s the organization’s own fault they are in this pickle. If you’re saying that $189 million SHOULD field a championship team and there isn’t one out there, who is responsible? The people who recommended signing A-Rod to an extension, Tex, AJ, etc.

      And think about all the other money that went to waste in the past decade: Pavano, Farnsworth, Johnson, Igawa et al. While other FOs took care to steward their teams’ money, this team spent like a drunken sailor at times. This is not the approach you want going forward, nor should it been at the time. It was an embarrassment.

  • JRod

    Not really concerned. The marginal degree of austerity will only force them to be much more gunshy about giving out ARod type contracts, and perhaps focus more on the farm system and player development, which are good things. Unless some statistician can show a significantly improved likelihood of a world championship with a $210 mm payroll vs. $188 mm., I really don’t care. BTW, a bit out of date but I like this Craig Robinson infographic on payroll/success correlation: http://www.nytimes.com/imagepa.....f=magazine

    • gc

      This.

    • Jim Is Bored

      People don’t want to hear anything about math, unfortunately.

      They think MOAR MONEY = MOAR CHAMPIONSHIPS, which is only true up to a certain extent.

      Good luck getting that through to them, though.

  • sfly6844

    150-180 payroll is plenty to field a championship team, the Yanks need to get their scouting and player development (coaches) ass in gear and start getting the prospects that they do draft knocking on the MLB door to help on the field or trade. While developing prospects is a crapshoot for sure, the Yanks need to do a better job of identifying early which prospects to trade sooner to help the ballclub rather then hold’em too long with no return.If they get to triple A they rot there and lose most value. Yankees have the resources to do a better job in the future with the money saved. All the injuries to their pitching prospects (Pineda too) is more than a fluke as something is amiss with the pitcher development and off-season pitcher programs to write it off as injuries happen. I will always root for the Yanks and this is just a longtime RAB lurker chiming in with a humble opinion. Anyone kinda feel the same?

  • Dave

    Mark Cuban come on down.

    • DC

      Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

  • Wiljaq YankFan

    I loved The Boss,but his son Hal is a sorry following act. Under his leadership they haven’t markedly improved the team since the signing of CC, A.J., and Tex. Hal is a joke and I fear that he’s taking the once proud Yankees organization down the road to mediocrity. I hope I’m wrong because I love the Yankees, but if I’m right I hope Hal looses money big time this year. If they loose the stadium will start looking like Citifield.

    And just you watch, if all this being cheapness leads to the Yanks missing the playoffs in 2013 this ownership will go plain stupid and spend like drunken sailors in an attempt to catch up to the rest of the league.

  • Henry Frisch

    I told my rep he can shove my seniority as a season plan holder (going back to the 90’s). If they won’t spend money, I won’t either. At least I will just buy tickets when I want to go; no fear of a shortage of availability. And everybody else I know who had a plan is doing the same thing.

    • 189,189,189,189

      The prices are crazy…paying for cavier getting dated hamburger

  • Pistol Pete

    Getting under 189 and staying there is a dangerous level for the Yanks given the amount of overpaid players they have. Arod and Tex are overpaid and very old quality vets are paid very well, Jeter, Kuroda, Youkalis and Mo. I’t’s also very dangerous to send out bad vibes on their best player Cano. Don’t like the vibes, don’t like the message. Does he have any answers on our catching situation. He’s so smart that he knows Martin is worth 7m per year but not 8m, what a joke and he leaves us with Cervelli and Stewart, please.

  • paul a

    If George were still alive and running things our outfield in 2013 would feature Bourn and Hamilton but back to reality, we’re talking Diaz and Canzler, ugh !

    • Byron

      What I think many people are ignoring is that reducing the payroll to or below the cap is not just trying to bank more money. I think the problem is that pretty much only the Yankee’s are paying the luxury tax. They are paying their competitors while these same teams get better draft choices and rule changes that really are designed to handcuff the Yankees. Remember when the Masters tried to “TIGER PROOF” their tournament, same concept against the Yank’s. MLB is cutting their own throat as the Yank’s are the best draw and maybe Hal and Hank want them to see what they are doing and giving them what they wish for.
      Right now I see other clubs setting themselves up for major financial problems over the next few years trying to be the Yank’s. Let us give it some time and see what happens, we might be surprise by what becomes available over the next couple of years as these long term financially bloated deals other teams are engaging i come home to roost.

      • DC

        You can’t use logic on paul a or stuart a…both are a lost cause.

  • Ed

    It’s true the Yankees don’t need a 220 million dollor pay roll to win its been proven but it also been proven that teams with low payroll that win develop good young talent in their farm system the one thing the yanks don’t have, the farm system is a joke the best players are 3 years away and we all know its not a sure thing when you relying on prospects just look at where are the so called killer bees, done, Pineda for montero ,bust . No catcher, older pitchers , older shortstop, older third base, declining first baseman, a second basement that might leave for more money, the best closer ready to retire adds up to only one thing… The stump Merrill years, if no one remember them let me remind you 90 to 94 losses a year and 7000 – 10000 fans in the stands I know I was one of them but that was when you could afford to see a game not at new stadium prices . So Hal do us a favor SELL to someone who more like your father. We sure miss him his sons aren’t a pimple on their father butt.

    • ClusterDuck

      Yanks were rated the ~11 best farm system. Toss out their weak AAA and I’d rate them higher.

    • DC

      Thanks for playing, Ed.

      • ClusterDuck

        Hi Ed,

        Please ping me when you actually have something to say.

        Thanks
        Ducky

        • Ed

          Oh I see and I guess you had something to say 11th best farm system do you know how far 1st or 2nd is from 11th I guess not well why don’t you look back 4 years ago when the yanks had the 7th best farm system in baseball, how many good young players came out of that, let me remind you, zero that’s how many so don’t pump your chest on number 11. And take a chance to follow their farm teams I go to 40 games a year in Trenton and Pa to watch the prospect they have and if he doesn’t get hut mark Montgomery is the closest to get to the bigs.

          • Jim Is Bored

            Holy run on sentence, batman!

            Please keep posting, it’s fun to try and parse your ramblings.

  • ClusterDuck

    Hard to cut back on the payroll when you have A-Rod on it making a bunch.

    Otherwise I’d be fine with being “close to the cap”.

  • Robinson Tilapia

    I’m sorry, but I’ve now read this and the Costa write-up about eight times. What exactly is it that I’m supposed to be upset about?

    He’s absolutely right about the team signing several of the top free agents this off-season.

    He’s absolutely right about not needing a 220 million dollar payroll to win a championship.

    He’s right about needing young players to step up.

    I also believe he said that 189 million, and fiscal responsibility, will continue to be a goal, but only if he sees a championship team on the field. That is a MUCH less hard line than others have implied. What I’m reading here is that there’s no limit that will stop this franchise from fielding a competitive team.

    What the motherfuck were people expecting this guy to say?

    • What We Want Hal To Say

      I’M CUTTING THE PAYROLL TO 40 MIL!!! I’M SELLING THE TEAM TO DOLAN FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR! I’M TRADING DEREK JETER FOR JOHAN SANTANA!! I’M AN INCOMPETENT FOOL WHO HAS ONLY WON 1 RING IN 5 YEARS OF LEADERSHIP!! F OFF YANKEE UNIVERSE! HAHA!

    • Jim Is Bored

      This this this this this.

      I’ll believe we’re following a 189 million budget when I see it. If they hadn’t set that goal publicly, I still think this offseason would have gone the same. Who should we have signed?

      I think Hal and Cash will spend the money when the rubber hits the road. Could we have resigned swish? Sure, but then the same crowd decrying our budget would have bitched about re-signing a choker who can’t cut it in the playoffs.

      There’s always something to whine about, if you’re that kind of person. As it is, we’re still going to be an 85+ win team every year if we’re not plagued by injuries, and we’re going to be in the discussion for the playoffs and world series.

      Wake me up when I have good reason to be pissed off.

      • Jim Is Bored

        I’ll believe they’re following a 189 million dollar strict budget when I see it*

      • Ed

        I hope your happy with 85+ wins but I come from the school of the great Lombardi were he said winning isn’t everything it’s the only thing..

  • Vanquisher

    Bottom line: Other teams have won the World Series without a 200 mil or even 180 mil payroll. Why can’t the Yankees do the same thing? The Tigers keep beating the Yankees in the post season with a 60-80 mil less payroll.

    2012 S.F. Giants won the W.S. with a 117 mil payroll.
    2011 St Louis Cardinals won the W.S. with a 105.4 mil payroll.
    2010 S.F. Giants won the W.S. with a 98.6 mil payroll.
    2008 Phillies won the W.S. with a 98.2 mil payroll.

    Enough said.

  • Sparky

    I wonder….if the Yankees are not competitive in July would the team consider trading their soon to be free agents like Cano, Granderson, Kuroda and Youkilis? If they are playing well, you could probably get two above average prospects for both Cano and Granderson – and one decent prospect for both Kuroda and Youk. Might be a nice way to boost the farm system.

  • Paulc

    $189 mil is plenty to win but dopey Hank gave A-Rod a stupid contract that’s paying him $30mil a year. It’s a problem. Hal has to spend in New York at the limit. Seeing empty seats during the playoffs is a shame. Wait til he sees attendance go under 3million for the season. He wants to save money so do fans. Team is getting old and just signing pitchers who are a year older isn’t going to get this team anywhere. Having no catcher and signing bench players doesn’t excite anyone. Might as well trade Granderson and Cano now. Hal won’t sign Granderson or Cano. I’ve been a fan for over 50 years and this is sad. Hal is turning the proud Yankees into the Royals or Twins. George must be spinning in his grave. For a guy who is supposed to be smart, he is not too smart, he’s reducing the teams value.its really a shame, feels like 1964.

    • 189,189,189,189

      you said it all….they dont sell anymore not even opening day and the playoffs….

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Blame Hal for A-rod too.

  • Peter Lacock

    Axisa=Wallace Matthews

    • Robinson Tilapia

      Never seen them together. Hmmm.

  • California Chris

    I have to say that I side with the group that does not get what the big deal is. All Hal & Co are saying is that they are going to be cutting payroll about 7% to save .20-40% on the dollar. When they sign a guy at 10 million, they are paying more than that due to luxury tax penalties. Then they see the teams that receive the money signing free agents that they were targeting with the money the Yankes essentially gave them. I would be pretty ticked off as well. To have this reset will be paramount if the current crop of outfielders and pitchers do not come to fruition. I live in the Bay Area and see the Yankees in Oakland every year, if you want to talk about tortured fans come on out and we will go to a game together. The problem IS the big contracts. With A-Rod, CC and Tex set to count about 75 million against the cap moving forward it is obvious they are not in any rush to be strapped to many contract like this in the future. It may be painful for the next 2-3 years, but if we can get 3-5 prospects up that can contribute in 2014-15 it may work out.

  • 189,189,189,189

    look the owners can do what they want they are charging crazy prices to see a team that is going in the wrong dirction…upper box tickets are 130..legends are 1500…to see stewart behind the plate…and hundred less homers…..

    • 1500,1500,1500,1500

      Hi dan gen!

  • Pistol Pete

    Hal gives mixed signals. He wants to be competitive but be under 189 for 2014. So he gets Mo Andy Kuroda ichiro and Youkalis to sign, makes sense. Then he cheaps out at catcher. I don’t get it. How does a team lose power from Arod Swish Martin and leave two awful catchers to catch in Gotham and be competitive in a division that ‘s brutal. If the Yanks lose Cano and Granderson next year imagine that lineup without those two and Jeter a year older, wow.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Probably the worst Yankee line-up in a long time.

      • Havok9120

        Can we at least wait to see what they actually put on the field in 2014 before we go into that? Please?

        • The Big City of Dreams

          We can wait but it’s just taking a realistic approach to it. The kids are two yrs away they aren’t going to make big long term deals. If they do it’s going to be Cano. Alex will be getting older and Tex continues to decline.

    • Ted Nelson

      Doomed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Rich Christy

    The only people being played for fools here are most of the fawning fans, like Tilapia Fish Fingers. A lot of dolts take everything hook, line, and sinker.

    Did anyone with half a brain really believe the Yankees’ plan to cut spending to get to the magic $189MM? Most folks here kept parroting that figure, simply because RAB kept saying it.

    It was the party line – and now, the party line is that it’s not a hard figure. Of course now, Axisa will carry Steinbrenner’s water and stop mentioning the $189MM threshold as often as he did. Don’t forget who butters RAB’s bread – it’s the YES Network.

    • Get Phelps Up

      Barbra Booey’s husband?

      • Mike HC

        No doubt about it. This guy rotates Howard Stern reference handles. As far as “trolls” go, I at least think this guy is one of the better ones.

    • Reuben Sierra’s Chains

      “Tilapia Fish Fingers”

      This is AWESOME! HAHAHA!!!!

      • Ted Nelson

        You are the worst. Your mother must be so ashamed of you. I feel terrible for her.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          Don’t bring anyone’s family into this.

      • Havok9120

        ….because this is the first time we’ve heard that joke. AND the first time we’ve seen you praise it.

        Sigh.

    • Ted Nelson

      Yea, $189 million was made up on RAB. Nothing to do with the CBA.

      Everyone else is a fool, and you are a really smart, reasonable dude!!!!!

  • Sterling

    It’s simple. Hal’s strategy is to have a top five draft pick every year so that he can follow the Marlins’ blueprint.

  • Ted Nelson

    LOL. What a fucking joke.

    I like his comments a lot. He said that we’re only keeping the payroll “low” (as in still close to the top of the league) if we are still fielding a championship caliber team. That would mean that if they start losing games, which they haven’t in two fucking decades, that they’ll spend more money.

    Only spoiled Yankees fans could twist that into something to be upset about.

    You people make me sick.

    • Ted Nelson

      This is my favorite RAB thread ever, by the way. So clear who the hysterical morons are, and who the reasonable people are.

    • Jim Is Bored

      The sad thing is there are reasonable people who have presented reasonable arguments as to why the Yankees should spend more money.

      But they’re drowned out by the doom and gloom, entitled, bitchy, pathetic fans who can’t handle a year without a championship.

      And as you and RT said, I haven’t read one quote that I should really be upset about. The title of this post was ridiculous troll-bait.

  • Aaron Small

    Get Michael Morse and maybe I’ll just forget about all this.

  • Upstate Yanks

    I like what Hal had to say. Remember that the luxury tax $$ actually gets distributed to other clubs. I’d rather us stay under the 189. Let the other teams figure out how to make a buck rather than using our luxury tax dollars for themselves.

    • Jerkface

      No it doesn’t. It goes to player’s benefits & MLB future fund.

  • Captain

    good troll post by Axisa.

  • TrollHunter

    At the end of the day as long as Hal and his family have more money in their pockets then I’m happy. Why should he be different than any other 1 percenter in this country?

  • Mike HC

    George: “Win at all costs”

    Hal: “Win at cost”

    Hank: “Have you seen my baseball?”

  • Dennis Z

    I think that if the cost of the product [team] is evened out around the league the cost to the customer [fan] should also be. The customers in St. Louis, K.C. ETC. should have the same cost as the Yankee customer including tickets, parking , hot dogs etc. Therefor
    our prices should drop drastically. If overhead in NYC is much more than elsewhere then those with lower overhead should contribute to the Yankees.

  • OldNavyGuy

    Many of the comments here miss the point, which focuses on the amount of money being spent and whether it is, in isolation, sufficient to put a championship team on the field.

    For many years the Yankees had a reputation for keeping their talent, and so they tend to pay that talent near the high end of the payscale. Add to this that New York is the largest sports market in the country and the price of talent goes up again.

    On the plus side to this, for which the Steinbrenners should be grateful, is that they inherited a franchise worth a billion dollars and paid no inheritance tax. This value has been cashed in recently through the partial sale of the Yes channel and other marketing and network deals. So the Yankees are awash in cash thanks to the Yankees franchise and the aforementioned expansive sports market of the city of New York.

    So there is no “magic” in the $189M figure except the baseball luxury tax. I don’t know what it was based on except to target teams like the Yankees.

    The concern from the fan base is that it is apparent that the team is not sustainable and improvements are both transient and mercenary. The Yankees did nothing to improve themselves for the 2013 season and lost a lot of flexibility.

    ARod and his bad contract continues to be an albratross. Jeter, Sabathia, and Rivera are all coming off of surgeries. Texeira is coming off of another spate of injuries that limited his playing time and undermined his game in 2012. Gardner missed almost all of 2012 from injury and who knows if it may happen again. Ichiro may or may not continue his resurgence but he is at the end of his career as are three of the players already named. The catchers are good second stringers. There is no DH. Granderson–a mediocre center fielder–is the modern equivalent of Dave Kingman. There is no bench to this team. Let’s not even talk about pitching. Essentially there was no plan in putting together this team except to mouth platitudes about what was under different circumstances: 95 wins, playoff, yadda yadda–and keep on raking in the bucks.

    So the concern is that the Steinbrenners are not in the baseball business. They are in the money and blue seat business. I agree–this is a slap in the face to the baseball fan base. Since 2010 these are the most mismanaged Yankees teams since CBS ran down the franchise.

  • Todd

    Hal, you are a douch bag if you think we have a championship caliber team. What moves did you make to make this team better? Signing Mariano and Pettitte? Really……I bet your father would be very upset with the direction the team is going. Saving money over winning championships. WOW!!!!!! I hope you prove me wrong cause I LOVE the Yankee’s!!!!!!! GOOD LUCK!!!

  • Bill

    I am going to like it! With the cap situation in the draft and internationally and arod sabathia and texiera ‘ s contracts having a all that money spent in huge portions and people want to spend more not to mention investing another 5 years in robinson cano whose offense will eventually fall and defense too. He is another arod if you know what I mean. I am grateful he played for us but we got the best out of him and I will welcome him on old timers day. It’s time to move on! Cano is not jeter may be better offensively but he is not jeter like i said the guy is great for us up to this point but he is on the declining part of his career to invest the kind of money people are talking about. The fans who want to spend less and develop our minor leaguers which takes more time are the patient ones so how can you say the ones who want to spend more are more patient that is backwards logic! What the hell are you guys talking about, you are full of bs! Reinvest in the draft and we will go from 11th in the top farm systems to # 1 farm system starting this year we do that and we will be bad for a while but it will be worth it when the team taste champagne with a young team and a great future ahead. We stick to that, it will happen. Believe that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Bill

    I am going to like it! With the cap situation in the draft and internationally and arod sabathia and texiera ‘ s contracts having a all that money spent in huge portions and people want to spend more not to mention investing another 5 years in robinson cano whose offense will eventually fall and defense too. He is another arod if you know what I mean. I am grateful he played for us but we got the best out of him and I will welcome him on old timers day. It’s time to move on! Cano is not jeter may be better offensively but he is not jeter like i said the guy is great for us up to this point but he is on the declining part of his career to invest the kind of money people are talking about. The fans who want to spend less and develop our minor leaguers which takes more time are the patient ones so how can you say the ones who want to spend more are more patient that is backwards logic! What the hell are you guys talking about, you are full of bs! Reinvest in the draft and we will go from 11th in the top farm systems to # 1 farm system starting this year we do that and we will be bad for a while but it will be worth it when the team taste champagne with a young team and a great future ahead. We stick to that,and it will happen. Believe that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!