Nov
13

Heyman: Hal, Jeter have spoken about the Yankees’ needs at shortstop

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Via Jon Heyman: Hal Steinbrenner has spoken to Derek Jeter and explained to him the Yankees will look for a starting shortstop this winter in the wake of his injury-riddled season. The Cap’n has not spoken publicly since signing his new one-year, $12M contract, but Heyman says he understands what the team is doing and is okay with it. I’ve always assumed Derek Jeter will play shortstop for the Yankees until Derek Jeter says it’s time for Derek Jeter to stop playing shortstop for the Yankees, but it sounds like he may wind up spending most of his time at DH in 2014. The Yankees are said to be “close” to a new deal with Brendan Ryan and have been connected to several other infielders.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League

54 Comments»

  1. Blake says:

    They should move him to 3B….they need one of those too. It’d take a little time to adjust but he could do it…..

  2. UncleArgyle says:

    If buying Jeter off Short was the reason for his 3 million dollar raise, it was worth it.

  3. WhittakerWalt says:

    If he’s the full-time DH that doesn’t speak highly of our chances.

  4. As much as I hate to say this, but if Derek can’t contribute this year, I think it is time for him to move on from baseball. It is very rare that an athlete gets to go out on top, but to see a shell of Jeter go out there everyday was really painful to watch this year. I know not everyone can be Marino Rivera and go out on the top of their game, but if the solution is for Jeter to be a full time DH then eh man that just really sucks.

  5. YankeeEmpire says:

    I think the Yankees should consider not signing Cano. Instead, save the money and use it for other players because within the next two years, we wont have an infield except for Cano. If we don’t sign Cano, we can move Jeter to second and have the following:

    C: McCann
    1: Texiera
    2: Jeter (or Cano)
    3: unk or (Chase Headly)
    SS: unk or (Aramis Ramirez) (or Jeter)
    Lf: unk
    CF: Gardner
    RF: Beltran
    DH: Unk (or AROD after his 210 game suspension)

    As we can see from the above, even with Cano it doesnt look to good. We should spend money on pitching or save it for a year when the free agent crop looks better. Also, we should never sign AJ Perzynski–he really sucks.

  6. Dalek Jeter says:

    So…unless our line up winds up being

    Gardner CF
    Jeter DH
    Cano 2B
    Teixeira 1B
    Granderson/Beltran/Choo RF
    Soriano LF
    McCann C
    Reynolds/Chavez 3B
    Ryan/Nunez SS

    I’m totally NOT okay with Ryan/Nunez being the answer at Shortstop if Jeter is going to be the regular DH…even then…eek…I’m not in love with that line up.

    • Havok9120 says:

      I would think the worst case scenario is them splitting time at the position. I’m assuming the Yanks are still looking for full time players at 3B and SS.

      • Dalek Jeter says:

        I’m hoping they are, but remember we spent all last off season assuming that and wound up with Kevin Youkilis. I like Cash, but expecting him to not get hurt was absolute blind optimism.

        • Havok9120 says:

          There’s a difference between “still looking for” and “sure to sign.” If they manage to get a technically workable situation in place before the FA season really opens up and then spend the rest of the offseason polishing, I can live with that.

    • Mac says:

      The line-up could wind up looking numerous different ways at this point.

      I imagine that when they say they’re looking for a starting SS they aren’t talking about Ryan. If he came back I imagine Jeter would be getting some SS time if he’s physically capable (unless he’s moving to 3B). I think that talk is largely posturing to try to lure in Drew and prep fans for the possibility.

      At the same time, Ryan has been worth 2.8 fWAR as recently as 2011 and was at 1.4 fWAR in 2012. There aren’t going to be many better SS available. He’s arguably the 3rd best SS on the open market.

      • Havok9120 says:

        Defense and WAR do not necessarily play nicely.

        • Dalek Jeter says:

          It’s really insane how high fangraphs values defense, yet they use UZR for their equation. WAR is a stat that one would like to use from season to season, to say Player A was worth X wins in 2013…meanwhile UZR according to people much smarter than me needs at least 2-3 seasons to get a sample size large enough.

          • Mac says:

            It’s the difference between using stats predictively and descriptively. You need a large enough sample to use stats to predict how good someone is going forward (what the real “population” or their true talent is likely to be). You do not need 2-3 years to describe how someone played in a given season. WAR is meant to capture how well someone played in that given season. This is why prediction stats like Steamer or whatever use multiple years of stats. It’s as true offensively as defensively. There may be less variability offensively (in part because the sample is larger… on defense you only have so many plays that are actually difficult to make whereas basically every PA besides an IBB or a terrible P it’s difficult to get on base) but there is still way too much variability to use one data point to predict a guy’s true talent or future contribution.

            I wish that one of these baseball sites like fangraphs would give a primer on basic stats. A lot of fans view stats as reading a table and digesting the numbers. In fact, stats is a science to try to use limited samples to understand the underlying population.

            • Mac says:

              I’m oversimplifying on predictions my making it seem like it’s all about the underlying talent level, as a good prediction for a baseball player is probably going to take trend and historical comparables into account. The part I want to focus on is just the underlying population, though, as that’s why people want more than one year of UZR.

              Of course, Brendan Ryan had a UZR above 16 for three straight seasons and above 12.8 for four straight… so your point doesn’t even really apply in this case.

            • Mac says:

              Sorry for the triple post, but one more point. There’s also the luck factor to consider, but that exists on offense and with Ps too. Basically, how good is a guy in a vacuum vs. how much did he actually help my team on the field in the games we played. So maybe this is a subset of using stats descriptively. It’s really difficult if not impossible to separate the two descriptively. We can just assume average performance in “luck” stats to try to normalize luck, but that assumes a lot. The idea is that over a large enough sample almost all of the luck involved will even out. Some of it might not actually be “luck,” though, so you might assume away a guy’s valuable skills if you assume he got lucky. You also might assume he has skills he doesn’t if you fail to account for the luck.

              On offense this is largely BABIP, also stadium dimensions. Did a guy with a high BABIP get lucky? Or is he is fast? Or does he have good bat control? Stadium dimensions are probably a little more straight forward, but you still have some ambiguity around whether a guy is trying to play to the dimensions of the park (LH pulling in YS, for example, but maybe the same guy is more trying to go the other way in Fenway) and whether a HR in one park would have been an out or a 2B/3B in another.

              In Ping this is where people use FIP and xFIP over ERA. On the whole it tends to work out better than using ERA, but you still get the guys who consistently out-perform or under-perform their peripherals.

              On defense there’s positioning (was he lucky the ball was hit right at him so much? or consistently well positioned?). There’s also luck on bounces, coordination among players on pop-ups, assignment of blame on throw/catch situations, and who is actually running the bases (if we both get 20 balls this season hit X feet to our right and 15 of mine are hit by DHs while 15 of yours are hit by CFs… I’m probably getting more outs).

        • OldYanksFan says:

          I thought people here were kind of into the numbers.
          Numbers certainly don’t tell the whole story, but they are fun. Let me throw some numbers atcha.

          Year Age PA WAR Owar Dwar
          Player A
          2010 36 739 1.8 2.7 -0.1
          2011 37 607 0.9 2.5 -1.0
          2012 38 740 2.2 4.2 -1.4
          2013 39 073 -.7

          Player B
          2010 28 486 2.1 -.3 3.0
          2011 29 494 3.8 2.0 2.6
          2012 30 470 3.5 0.7 3.6
          2013 31 349 0 (guessing)

          Now… let’s look.
          Over the privious 3 years, Player A has 4.9 bWAR, and Player B has 9.4 bWar.
          And Player B has like 30% fewer PA. If you project Player A’s PA on Player B, his WAR might be around 13.
          sooooooooo… Who has been better those 3 years?

          Looking ahead the next year, Player A will be 40, and Player B will be 32.
          sooooooooo…Who is more likely at having a better year?

          The good news is Player A is making only $9m or so more than Player B.

          • OldYanksFan says:

            OK, I’m being glib.
            But certainly, even considering the funkiness of DWar, you could at least equate the two looking to 2014. Basically, either one could be worth 0-2 bWar in 2014. The difference between the two can’t amount to that much in 2014.

            My guess Jeter starts at SS as much as he is able to, and still be relatively ‘fresh’. If he’s healthy, it could be 100 games. I’ll guess he would start at SS (if possible) facing LHP. That’s 50 games.

            It’s a definite wait and see.
            I don’t want to see the Yanks spend big bucks for a real SS this year (unless one fortuitously fell in our lap). I’d rather spend money on positions we KNOW we need to fill, rather that one’s we might need to fill.

        • Mac says:

          I don’t know what you are trying to say, so I can’t really comment.

          • Havok9120 says:

            I’m saying that a lot of people (like the writers for this site as well as many/most of the statmonster commenters) think WAR values for high-defense guys are inflated and that they do not necessarily contribute as much as the dWAR indicates.

            • Mac says:

              This isn’t meant as an insult, but for most of those people (including Mike) I have seen no indication that they have taken even an introductory statistics class. The two leading baseball stats sites both seem to disagree, and while I don’t know how they came to their conclusions exactly I do believe they used some actual quantitative analysis. I have never seen anyone on here use anything more than their gut and popular perception.

              The majority of fans used to think that walks were basically P errors and not a reflection of the hitter’s skill. That didn’t make them right.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      I actually can’t see Ryan as the primary answer here. I see him much more in the Nix role. He’ll have to add a random N to his first name, of course.

      Not buying Reynolds/Chavez as the solution at third. I’d love one as a corner backup, but am really hoping the team replaces Alex a bit better there.

  7. Dr. Grenaldine says:

    Just curious, why was there no Yankee rumblings on Nick Punto before he seemed to immediately sign elsewhere?

  8. TWTR says:

    I admire Hal’s realistic approach (which is sometimes absent), but I don’t see how they can DH Jeter v. RHP very often.

    Although, if this hastens the departure of Ichiro and Wells, then DHing Jeter v. RHP would be more palatable.

  9. Ryan D says:

    Finally this off-season raise makes sense; maybe they’re paying him extra as a compensation for the fact that he can’t play SS?

  10. Jonathan says:

    I still think Jeter will get plenty of time at SS regardless of who we might get to replace him. If it’s Peralta them he’s probably going to fill in for ARod during a suspension initially and if it’s Drew then he could use a break against tough lefties plus he’s always a solid bet to miss quite a few games. It’s amazing that there are two solid at the worst SS and an elite C available on the FA market right when we have a need for them for the first time in awhile. It would be a shame not to take advantage of that along with Tanaka one and in a dream world 2 of Beltran/Grandy/Choo re-signing Cano/Kuroda and bringing in a late inning reliever.

  11. Mick taylor says:

    Sign Cruz or Beltran this year. Then after soriano ichiro and wells are off the team next year try to sign another outfielder , maybe nick markakis. Jeter as a full time dh will be a joke

    • Mikhel says:

      Do you want to hear two jokes in one? Nelson Cruz and Carlos Beltrán fielding.

      From what we saw of B. Ryan fielding, the guy is quick in short range, plays deeper and gives the illusion of being faster than he really is, and he can’t make the easy plays, those plays where he doesn’t need to move and Jeter is one of the best at completing and insuring at least an out, plus Ryan’s throw is not the strongest.

      Axisa a lots of other “analysts” are enamored of Ryan because the stats say he is very good at fielding, yet they don’t seem to watch baseball analitycally and resort to cold numbers alone.

      • Mac says:

        You know that Brendan Ryan played 17 games on the Yankees last season, right?

        Might want to look at more than 17 games to decide what kind of fielder someone is.

        I also don’t understand why you assume that stats are missing the plays you watch. They do their best to capture what you see and quantify it. They don’t capture everything, but neither do your eyes/brain. Your eyes/brain are very likely to mislead you, in fact. You see him blow one play (literally had one error as a Yankee) and maybe bobble one ball but still get the out in 17 games and those stick out in your memory. Derek Jeter and everyone else makes the occasional error too. It is not just stats that value Ryan’s defense, and his reputation is also as one of the best defensive SS. You are probably in a small minority of people who “watch baseball analytically” and think Ryan is not a very good fielder.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      Those guys would suck at short.

  12. Robinson Tilapia says:

    Kind of a non-story. I think Derek Jeter knows pretty well that being a full-time SS isn’t in the cards. That doesn’t mean he’s still not the starting shortstop.

  13. LarryM Fl says:

    I’m confused over the Yankees going out and immediately signing Ryan. It sends me a signal that the available shortstops do not seem enthusiastic to sign with the Yankees. Jeter’s status as a full time player complicates the issue. They can stay with Nunez at shortstop when Jeter is not playing. It seems as if there are too many parts for the positions.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      They haven’t signed him yet. Could be an MiLB. Could also be to replace Nix rather than be the primary backup. I wouldn’t read much into it.

    • Mac says:

      Could be that they’re not interested in the Yankees, but it could just as easily be that the Yankees aren’t interested in signing them at their asking prices.

      Stephen Drew could easily be overvalued at this point, coming off the second best season of his career. His Steamer projections for 2014 are a wRC+ of 91 and 2 fWAR, which is solid enough but not at all elite. And those projections assume he plays as much as he has since 2010. He only played 1/2 a season in 2011 and 12, and 124 games in 2013. I’m sure that the Yankees would be interested at the night price, but with Boras as his agent coming off a great season and having turned down more money to play in NY last season he might not be available at that price. He took the “rebuild your value” one year deal last season, so after excelling on that deal and at 30 now he’s probably looking to cash in with a 4 year deal or something. Given the lack of SS out there, I would guess someone matches his demands. Plus he’s got draft pick comp tied to him, and if they can get great value outside of QO guys I would love to see the Yankees retain their pick.

      Peralta’s got the whole PED thing hanging over him, and I don’t know how the Yankees view that. He’s also coming off a big bounce-back season offensively (wRC+ of 86 in 2012 and 123 in 2013). His defensive stats have been stellar recently, but a lot of people seem to think his days at SS are over.

      Combine two guys coming off bounce-back seasons after previously being fairly inconsistent and the Yankees already having Jeter on the roster for $12 million, and the Yankees might not be interested in paying the asking price for either of the SS who are most likely better than Ryan. Ryan himself is coming off a terrible 2013 campaign, so he might be a good value. For some reason Steamer only has him at 1 PA for 2014, but it is projecting his best offensive season since 2011 when he was worth 2.8 fWAR.

      If you look at what the Red Sox did right last off-season (and it’s largely getting lost because of the luck they had elsewhere on their roster), they didn’t get hung up on contract years. It’s a huge market inefficiency, I would argue, that FAs tend to be paid largely for their contract years. You’re not buying that year, though. You’re buying the next X seasons. To project how someone will do for the next X seasons, you don’t just use one data point from their contract year. So why would you pay largely based on that contract year? THe Red Sox got a bunch of good values on guys coming off down or mediocre contract years. They had luck in how hard Victorino and Drew bounced back, but it was a really sound strategy.

      There’s not that might else on the FA market. You could argue Clint Barmes is as good as Ryan, maybe. Could hope that Furcal bounces back from two bad seasons and a missed season, but that seems like a real long shot.

  14. James says:

    Hey mike, Last year yankees drafted left hander James Pazos, how long till be in major leagues , help yankees bullpen

  15. mike says:

    cano would be a drag on the payroll,it does not lookn good for 2014,with or without cano.i say save the money,add hustle instead

  16. Mike HC says:

    Considering all the teams other needs, and the lack of young stud SS available, I am fine rolling with Jeter, Nunez and Ryan one last time.

  17. Wrongfont says:

    Yogi danced around left field. Jeter could do that better than Yogi did and take a whole lot of pressure off that ankle. If the Yanks have the cards to deal they should try to reel in Toronto 3rd baseman Bret Lowrey. The kid is a hard nosed throuh back who can very well play three infield positions. Lastle if Corbin Joseph has healed from his shoulder injuries he could become a very good 2nd baseman.

  18. qwerty says:

    Anyone else find it odd that Hal is the one speaking to Jeter? Shouldn’t Brian Cashman be doing that??

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