Update: Cano asked Mariners for ten years, $240M
By8:03pm: Jon Heyman says the Mariners are preparing to offer Cano nine years and $225M. I would be surprised if the Yankees went that high. Cano might have to leave money on the table to return to New York.
6:16pm: Ken Rosenthal says Cano asked the Mariners for ten years and $240M. The team did make an offer but it was not over $200M. Last we heard, Robbie asked the Yankees for $250-260M or so. His price just came down again.
4:10pm: Via Enrique Rojas (translated article): The Mariners let Robinson Cano know they would be willing to offer him a ten-year contract worth $230-240M during a private meeting today. Robbie flew out to Seattle to speak to the club personally. It doesn’t sound like they gave him a formal offer, but either way, this is the first time another club has talked dollars with Cano (as far as we know). If they do offer him ten years and $230M or so, the Yankees would have no choice but to up their offer from seven years and roughly $165M, probably into the $200M range they reportedly want to avoid. Unless, of course, they’re willing to walk away.
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I’m willing to go to 8 years and $190m. But no way I’d go to 10 and $230-240m. Bye Robbie.
Farewell
I’d go 8/200. There’s just no fucking way I go ten years. I’d say there’s no way the Yanks do that either, celery cap or not, Ellsbury or not.
Yeah, I think 8/200 is the top for the Yankees. I’d be cool with that however it turns out. I think that also might be enough to keep Cano away from Seattle.
I agree
8/$200 is too much for Cano or any 2nd basemen for that matter but if he walks, they’re pretty fucked regardless of who else they sign.
If they’re gonna give $153 for Ellsbury, why not $200 for Cano.
I don’t know if I’d brand them as “fucked” yet, but they’ll be the unenviable position of having spent $230 on salary this off-season and not having much of an improvement to show for it. There’d be still a ton of work to do, if it even can get done.
Given that Choo would be the best they could do and that would only net them 2 WAR at the very best over Gardner, they would certainly be screwed.
But you could flip Gardner for a SP (like Bailey). Then you’re at 5 or 6 more WAR.
It’s an uphill battle without Robbie…..after spending $230-240 million already. Head-shaking, really, and I’m 100% on the McCann signing.
I definitely agree about McCann, and no doubt it’s an uphill battle. Ellsbury was an overpay, but I don’t think it was that bad–basically 1 extra year. If the contract was 6 years and $125m, I don’t think anyone would be really complaining, and it’s slightly less AAV and one less year.
McCann this year should be a great signing, we’re going to need that .869 OPS against RHP. I think Choo is certainly the better signing over Ellsbury if Cano leaves. They’d be weak against lefties without at trade/signing, but at least you’d have two guys OPSing .870 or better against 3/4th of the league.
It’d be tough. But they’d have enough money to spread around and get two starters and an infielder. Assuming they dump Ichiro, they could sign Infante to play 2B ($8m), and Garza ($15m) and Kuroda ($15m) and be under $189m with A-Rod, and have far less total dollars locked up than the contract Cano would get.
Those three guys would probably be worth around 8 wins and make them a borderline playoff team at 90 wins or so.
For 3/15 I think I’d rather have Jimenez than Garza. I found Garza overrated with Tampa and since then he’s been good to great in the NL with injuries. Jimenez just needs a really thorough physical to make sure the arm/shoulder is good.
“but they’ll be the unenviable position of having spent $230 on salary this off-season and not having much of an improvement to show for it.”
Losing Cano could negate most of the production gained from the Ellsbury and McCann signings. If we get a decent 2B, we can add more production and improve our lineup, if not we probably are going to only have a slightly better lineup since we took away two holes in the lineup (C, 3rd outfielder) while creating another (2B) but would also trade an MVP caliber player for two pretty good players. Also Cano costs much less per year than Ells and McCann combined and can still provide very good production by himself even though McCann and Ells together provide more. Amazing what losing 1 player can do to a lineup.
We still can sign Infante or get a decent 2B so losing Cano probably isn’t going to ruin us especially if we continue to spend and improve elsewhere.
We’ll be fine without him. They’re going to love his lack of hustle in Seattle!
And if the Yankees had instead signed cano to a 240mm deal, they would not have improved since last year either…
People on this blog need to stop passing judgment on the offseason until it’s over……get another hobby for a couple months guys. Sheesh
This is why God invented the word “if.” That’s ok. For once, I didn’t get called a Pollyanna.
Pollyanna!
I do very much agree with you that 8/200 is the limit. And if the Yanks agree I don’t think it will have anything at all to do with Ellsbury or anything else. It’ll simply be a value judgement, a vacuum wherein they just don’t think he’s worth more than that as a single player or part of a whole.
I will say, though, that your point is valid.
I would have rather overpayed for Cano instead of Ellsbury but it’s too late to fix that now. I’m happy we have Ellsbury, but the contract was not smart and may have prevented Cano from signing with us.
If these number are true, I doubt it. Not if he wanted 10 years.
Maybe he might choose NY if they increase their offer a little if he would rather be in NY over having a larger contract in Seattle. Just speculating here, but maybe he felt insulted that a worse player that never played for the Yanks got close to what they were offering him or he thinks that was supposed to be his money and there’s no room for him in their budget anymore and that the Yanks would rather have JE.
If the Yanks were unable to get any FAs like JE for whatever reason, they might have no choice but to overpay Cano to keep what they already have since they couldn’t improve elsewhere. All speculation but it’s still worth thinking about how things would of been if we weren’t able to or didn’t sign other FAs like Ells.
If this is what Cano gets did we overpay for Ellsbury? FA contracts are going to continue to inflate, if Granderson actually gets 4/64 coming off injury and Beltran gets 3/48 and Cano gets 10/240, 7/150 for Ellsbury isn’t that bad.
Well, whether all FA contracts inflate or not, that still doesn’t mean the contracts are worth it. FA is a terrible way to get value since you usually have to overpay for a significant upgrade. Ellsbury isn’t worth his, and neither will most of the other FAs either. Comparing overpaid players to other overpaid players doesn’t justify things IMO. That contract offer from SEA to Cano might go down as one of the worst deals this offseason if Cano signs it and can’t produce because of Safeco/ lack of protection/decline/age and length of the deal/injuries. Ellsbury’s deal could definitely come back to bite us, but it really helps us improve over the short term. But there was a good chance he would sign for less.
You can only compare the value of FA contracts to other FA contracts. And the Yankees will always be players in FA.
True, but that doesn’t justify anything.
Of course it does. The team is in a situation right now where it either goes hard after FAs or does not expect to compete for several years. There is no “give the kids a chance and they’ll save us.”
I’m thinking 7 and 180 would be my max.
I’d go ten. Hell, I’d go twenty. But I wouldn’t go over 200. 20/200 would be just great.
In fact, how about 300/300? Absolutely the biggest contract number in history. Bragging rights go to Jay-Z.
There is absolutely NO NEED to go higher than 7 years $161M when the lowly Mariners are the ONLY team in the bidding for Cano besides the Yanks and Cano renders himself irrelevant and harmless if he signs with the Ms.
I’m not willing to say it’s over, till it’s over. I hope Robbie can see what’s he’s leaving. This is without question the GREASTEST Sports Organization ever for any sport. He will leave not only NY but all the friends he’s made & there’s life after baseball for the faithful Yankee player’s. He still has time to make the right decision, I just hope he’s not being mislead by people only interested in money & THEIR take.
I understand the fear of adding another albatross contract, but the reality is Tex is gone in 2 years and A Rod in 3 years. That is not that long to “suffer”. Look at the Angels. They have 8 more years to suffer through Pujols deal. Rangers now have 6 more years to suffer through the Fielder deal.
Cano is angry about the Ellisbury deal. He is looking at it the wrong way. He should be saying “wow, look at the guys their bringing in, I need to be part of this “.
The question is how can the Yankees think they will better off with a home grown talent that hits .300+ , 30+ hrs. 100+rbis , plays gold glove and plays everyday ? The answer is they won’t be , they will be worst off. Haven’t they learned from their past mistakes of patching together third base and catcher last year.
This is the Yankees. How can we allow a nobody like Jack Z screw us a third time? First he screwed us with Lee, then Pineda , now he is trying to steal one of our players ? Offer him the damn 8th year, brings it up to 200 million. If that is still not enough , then let Jack Z suffer with the albatross deal that will strangle the team down the road.
Bye bye!
If that’s a firm offer, let him walk. Take the money and spend it on pitching, via trade, free agency, whatever.
Espn deportes is also reporting cano is on a plane right now to Seattle. Not sure if espn deportes is a accurate source but that’s what there saying
The report above reflects that already.
Dick’s Drive In: Good burger.
Dick’s is a Seattle institution. “Good” is generous, however.
I rotted in Seattle for 2 and 1/2 years in the 90′s. Well, I was two doors down from Pearl Jam’s rehearsal studio so it wasn’t all bad. But I still regard Seattle as just a good place to see a ball game if you live in Portland.
If Cano doesn’t sign with the Yankees, I hope he enjoys ten years in Seattle.
I lived there for three years and loved it. Hoping to move back someday.
I crammed 2 weeks worth of life in 8 weeks of Washington. Meh.
I flew over Seattle once on my way to Vancouver. It was grey and soggy and smelled of peyote… No thanks
Cmon what about the herbal remedies?
“If they do offer him ten years and $230M or so, the Yankees would have no choice to up their offer from seven years and roughly $165M into the $200M range they reportedly want to avoid.”
That is silly. Of course they have a choice. If they feel it’s worth it to increase their offer they do it. If not, they move on.
I am also a little leery of the accuracy of this “report”. I call shenanigans and think it is more agency leaking of fluff to help generate false interest. If they did offer Cano that, he would have taken it.
Clearly what Mike means is that if the Yankees want to keep him, they have no choice but to up the offer
Honestly, we just need to readjust our expectations of FA contracts. I don’t think we need to offer Cano ten years. But 8/200 will be necessary.
That was and remains my guess on the Yankees offer. Of course, that would mean Cano would have to walk away from 30 million or so, if this story is true. I still have my doubts.
Love Cano but 200 is too much for a second baseman and Ellsbury has power but the last few years has been a burner. Like Granderson he’ll steal less and hit more power.
Ha. Ellsbury isn’t remotely comparable to Granderson with the bat.
He doesn’t have to be better than Granderson homerun-wise, since you’re not talking about him BA and OBP-wise as he’s better than Granderson is now in that respect (besides defensively.)
Ellsbury has only had one single wRC+ as high as Granderson’s career average.
They aren’t close.
http://riveraveblues.com/2013/.....ano-97340/
Still this.
And I’m sure the business/endorsement opportunities in Seattle after his playing days are over will blow away anything he could expect in a small market like New York. Hope he loves rainy days. Seattle got a lot of them.
The new face of Starbucks.
Griffey and Ichiro had no problem getting national endorsements in Seattle. It helps to be the biggest star in the marketplace. In NYY he’s not Derek Jeter or Rivera, and the Yankees will always have other stars. Not to mention that there is another baseball team, two basketball teams, two Hockey teams and two football teams to compete with. And if Seattle is serious about spending big on multiple big FAs they could compete.
I think, once Jeter retires and A-Rod is out of the picture, he would be the biggest star in just about the largest market there is. This could be as soon as 2015. Also, he’ll always have to contend with King Felix and possibly Price in Seattle.
Griffey and Ichiro were in a different league when it came to marketing than Cano is. I’ve seen the comp; I don’t think it’s particularly valid. Cano would be the biggest face of a 3.5 million-person market in the Pacific Northwest. He’s not a Japanese superstar like Ichiro was, and he hasn’t done for baseball what Griffey did for ten years in the 1990s.
I think the differences in taxes and cost of living would at least mostly make up for the endorsement differences.
Taxes? I highly doubt Robbie is paying NYC taxes for the other half of the year.
That doesn’t mean he’s not paying them at all. Half of his income is earned playing for the Yankees in NYC. It’s most definitely a factor, if not a huge one; you can’t choose to emphasize how he’d get more endorsements in NYC and not also take into account the fact that everything is more expensive here.
On the other hand, you’re also getting what you pay for.
Oh I agree – there’s a reason I live in Manhattan
Who knows what Robbie thinks though.
You actually get taxed per game in MLB, and the rate is decided by where you play. So he pays taxes for 81 games in NY and then pays taxes in the state for every other game. So the impact could be even bigger than we think. 81 games in Washington and then 36 in Texas both states charge no state income tax. Although you do get 36 games in California which has a pretty hefty income tax.
Spring training is unpaid?
They probably get paid for ST games too. So I guess it makes a difference because Florida has no state income tax and Arizona has a small tax on people making over 150k. I don’t know all the ins and outs. I just remember reading a pretty in depth article talking about how much a baseball player could lose or gain due to income tax a couple of years ago.
I think it’s duty days or whatever the term is they use, and so anytime you’re on the clock it counts. Incredibly complex tax returns, but that’s a good thing as it means the children of those accountants will be well educated.
No argument here, the point was it’s still possible to be a marketing star in Seattle. He’d have to win though. And Seattle would need to add a good corner OF, a 1b/dh option, and a solid sp to be legitimate contenders.
It also helps to be viewed as that team’s player. Griffey was signed and developed by the Mariners. Ichiro came straight from Japan to the Mariners. No other MLB affiliation.
As Pujols can attest, a free agent is viewed differently. That will be Cano.
Seattle was good then. Their lineup is horrible and I’m not sure Jack Z is talented enough to fix their problems.
Cano isn’t in the same universe as Griffey Jr. or (prime) Ichiro. One could SERIOUSLY argue the crowd would be louder every time 2 0 1 4 Ichiro comes up to bat as a Yankee or back with the Ms (especially back with the Ms if he was traded back there) than when 2014 Cano The Mariner comes up to bat. Jr. and Ichiro were icons in Seattle (as well as future Hall Of Famers.) Cano isn’t even an icon with the Yankees. He’s not getting endorsements because the Seahawks, Sound FC, and Storm are the only other professional sports teams in town LOL.
Statistically, it rains more in New York than Seattle. Seattle just has a bad reputation.
http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?ny5801
http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?wa7488
It does rain more here, but Seattle also has way more depressing, cloudy, gray, damp days.
You’re oversimplifying this. Yes, he can probably earn more endorsements in NYC, though it’s not like he wouldn’t be able to get any in Seattle – that Kevin Durant guy seems to do just fine playing in that massive metropolis down in Oklahoma, for example. Also, it’s not going to matter if the contracts are $70M apart. And he’ll pay lower taxes in Seattle than he would if he stays, and have a lower cost of living.
He’ll have to deal with more rain, but Seattle’s pretty nice during the summer, and he’ll escape the humidity of the east coast. Plus, in Seattle he can go hire a couple hookers without worrying about ending up on the back page of a couple tabloids the next day. I live in NYC and would rather be here than anywhere else, and a lot of us here on a Yankee blog probably feel the same way, but that doesn’t mean everyone agrees. I bet if you go to a Mariners blog and ask them where they’d rather live all else equal, you’d find a landslide in the other direction.
I don’t think Cano needs to pay for pussy guy LOL.
Even without the contract of Ellsbury, the Yankees would not be touching that offer.
Completely agreed.
I go to 8/200 max regardless of what the M’s offer and let Cano choose between NY and eternity, or Seattle and….whatever he thinks he can accomplish there.
Now is a good time to fire back by announcing the Kuroda signing. How quickly do we think we get Tanaka on a helicopter tour around the city???
No to the helicopter – see Corey Lidle and all the fatal tv news station helicopter crashes in NYC and all over the country.
Corey died in a plane not a helicopter.
Shut up with your facts.
Goodbye Robbie,
Enjoy those 8 hour, layover flights from SEA to Dominican Republic
For $230 million, you would too
I’d take $40 mil less to stay in New York City any day.
I’m calling bullshit on anyone who’s never been offered $40M saying what they’d turn down $40M for.
It’s a question of marginal utility. If I’m already getting $200 million no matter what, is the worse work environment really worth the marginal increase in wealth?
I get the point, but you can’t know how you’d react to that much money until you have it. It’s easy to say that it doesn’t matter once you’ve got $X, but if that’s true, why does almost every single person who already has $X seem to still want more money? Why does Derek Jeter want a raise after essentially missing the whole year? Why does A-Rod fight tooth and nail to make sure he doesn’t miss a year’s salary?
I bet you could find impoverished people who would say, “Once I’m making $50K, what would another $10K matter? I’d already have plenty of money to live on.” The people making more money than you always seem like have more than enough, and yet it always seems like you yourself could use more – I just think people think that regardless of where they actually are on the income distribution.
It’s not the pile, it’s piling it high.
And I’ve actually observed in some quarters that those making much less, or close to nothing, are often possessed of a spiritual happiness almost completely absent in those making embarrassing amounts of dough.
Well, half the games are on the road anyway, and the season is only half the year. He doesn’t have any kids; if Robbie really likes the city, he can keep his apartment and live there during the offseason.
It’s not just the city (although that’s certainly part of it), it’s about playing for the Yankees versus playing for the Mariners.
Also, why would a man who spent 15 of the first 18 years of his life in the Dominican Republic, and has a son there, want to live in New York during the offseason when he could live in Florida, where he doesn’t have to pay taxes and is a quick flight from home?
It’s not $40M. It’s 17%, where you are well past the point where cost-of-living matters.
I don’t think “where he lives” matters all that much, since these guys are hothouse flowers during the season, and migrate to sunny climes in the offseason. What does matter, though, is the market he works in, and what the additional opportunities are. I have to belive he can make a lot more on the side in NYC, especially with the large Latino community. LA would be a different matter.
For $230M, he can take direct flights on private jets.
Private Jets are faster and more comfortable.
An extra $40m buys a lot of speed and comfort.
I think that line of reasoning is a little overplayed. $40M is an awful lot of money to give up over travel inconvenience.
Yes and no. giving up $40M when its the difference between $240M and $200M is probably not a big deal ( iknow there are tax implications etc etc)
whats the outcome? You’ve only set up the next 8 generations of your family instead of 10?
That’d be ok with me. Just a difference of perspective, I guess.
This would, of course, have been leaked by the Cano side, which means it may not be true. And even if it is, it would be a sign that Cano does not want to sign the deal otherwise the headline would be Cano signs ten year deal with Mariners for $240M!
If it is true, then it is time to let Cano go.
Pretty sure Robbie can afford to borrow Jay-Z’s G-6 private jet
That reply was ment for the comment above about 8 hour layovers from Seattle to DR. Apparently I suck at this.
Well said. If the leaks are saying 10/240, whats it really gonna take for SEA to sign him? 12/300?
See Ya!
I’ll believe it when I see the press conference.
Exactly but you see how quick some fans are to just let him go lol.
Something, ain’t it?
Mike: “The Bridgeport Bluefish offered Robbie one year at 500K.”
Generic First Name Commenter: “GOODBYE ROBBIE!”
hehehe… Nailed it
If great starting pitching was available to the yankees an offer of 8 years 200 million would be as high as I would go, otherwise let him go if that is not good enough. But it seems that all the options available are unreliable or questionable. If the yankees cannot get high quality starters then they have no choice but to sign Cano or you might as well say good bye to the post season next year. Maybe with him you can at least make it interesting with Kuroda, Tanaka,Garza,Jimenez,etc.
Offer him 8/$200M and get it over with. If he insists on 10 years you have to walk away – a 40-year-old 2B might not even be worth a roster spot.
I’d assume, even on an 8 year contract, they consider moving him (to 3B?) during the later years of the contract if he can no longer handle 2B and they don’t want him as a full time DH..
While true, I don’t think this really changes the equation all that much. 40-year-old baseball players simply aren’t very good unless they’re truly transcendant. I love Cano, but he’s not in that class.
Might as well offer 10/$205m and lower the AAV.
True, that would be fine if it’s the 10 years he insists on. Hell, if the Steinbrenners are willing to spend whatever it takes, just match the contract; I’d assume there’s some limit though and $240M seems too inefficient to me.
I’m usually in favor of pretty wreckless spending, but if he wants more than 8 years he can hit the bricks
If this is true and Cano is serious about signing with Seattle and not just using them to raise other offers, he’s gone. Signing him would of been a great way to put the finishing touches on the lineup but it will help us stay under budget if he leaves. Going to be hard to replace that production and fill the hole at 2B. If I were the Yanks, I would slightly increase my offer, but still not go over 200 just as an effort to keep him and see how much he values being in NY.
Not really. Just snatch up Beltran with two years $17M a year mutual option for $14M and $2M buyout so he makes $36M for two years, $48M for three. Mutual option vested if he wins the ALMVP or finishes 2-10 in the ALMVP voting either year. He was willing to take less money to be a Yankee in his prime and wayyy before time was running out for him to play for the Yanks, so I could see see him (possibly taking less years and money to play for them in what will be his last hurrah as a player.
Getting Beltran or RF means getting a new DH, too, as the Yanks simply move Soriano to DH and he hopefully slams 40 HR from never or barely playing the field. He’s smacked 66 HR over the past two years (32 in 2012 + 34 in 2013) playing the outfield, imagine what he could do rested from the field.
I’m calling b.s. why does a Spanish language reporter have this mega scoop?cano is THE free agent story now. And why would the mariners top the next best offer by 50+ million? This sound like agent plants to me. Don’t buy it.
Well it’s a lower AAV, they’re just giving more years.
why does a Spanish language reporter have this mega scoop
Uhhhh, are you aware of the identity of the player in question?
because Enrique Rojas is probably the most connected Dominican reporter out there. and I would have to think he can get some inside info from Robbie’s camp
I think it’s fluff floated by Jay-Z because what they have leaked out already has been pretty quickly shot down. They needed to find another “source” to make it seem more believable.
I think Cano met them and they spoke parameters. No official offer was extended and the #’s being thrown around are all inflated.
Jack Z gets to look like he tried and drives up the price for the Yankees. Now, he can focus on Choo and/or Beltran, who will be cheaper and he’s maybe taken a little $ away from the Yankees by making them pay more for something they were always going to get anyway.
I think why the Spanish news outlet has been answered.
The 50 million more is based on Seattle trying to construct a deal that would encourage Cano to come to the Mariners. It’s a similar approach as the Nationals took with Werth a few years back when they wanted to establish themselves and knew they had to overpay.
if the Mariners are really offering 230M, then there is nothing the Yankees can/will/should do.
I’m not buying this. But even if it’s true it’s not a slam dunk Cano accepts the longer deal. 10 years for 24 per in Seattle or 7 years for 26 per in New York? Doesn’t seem that lop-sided to me.
What? That’s a $48M difference. Pretty significant to me.
Here, I’ll give you $182 million, you give me $240 million. It’s not lop-sided.
I realize it’s not that simple, but $58 million is still a lot of money.
Go rot in Seattle, never sniff a WS, and move further away from your family. I personally, think he really wants to stay in NY. So, I agree, doesn’t seem that lop-sided.
You’re talking about giving up $40-50M dollars for better job satisfaction and better travel conditions for 10 years. Please be reasonable. You would seriously do that?
If I’m making $200 million anyway, the money really doesn’t matter.
I wouldn’t see it that way. I’d see $40-50M as more to pass on to my family, give to charity, whatever.
I’m with CLS on this one.
I think I could fit in Charity with 200 million….and Sally, and Maria, and Amanda…..
Don’t forget Tapioca. Mmmmmmm. Tapioca.
It’s lopsided because he’s guaranteeing a huge salary for three years in which he’s going to be the worst. 38 year old baseball players don’t usually get that kind of a salary and definitely don’t get that kind of money guaranteed for three years.
Still nothing concrete.
I’d hope Cano would at least give the Yankees the benefit of one last chance to match an offer.
I’m starting to get the feeling that he cares more about the money than the success of his career. Which is totally understandable.
All the same, he won’t be as big as he would have been in pinstripes.
My guess is that he won’t see another World Series berth, much less a win. But what do I know?
If he didn’t go back to the Yanks and say, “hey…this team made me this offer and I’m considering it. Whaddayasay?”, he is the dumbest man walking this earth.
Fair point.
These negotiations seem contentious enough that, well…
Stranger things have happened.
They honestly don’t sound any more contentious to me than any other negotiation any other off-season. It really is the same shit at more dollars.
If he doesn’t give the Yanks the last shot, he’s an absolute idiot and Jay Z deserves to have his license revoked for dumbass.
Agreed.
Jay-Z entered that territory about a month ago for me.
Not to mention most baseball writers think the Mariners’ execs are pretty squirrely about committing that money to one player.
I would be too if, I were paying for a player that’s going to set career highs in walks and watch his power decline to ~20 HRs.
That lineup and that stadium are not going to do him and that contract any favors.
“My guess is that he won’t see another World Series berth, much less a win.”
It’s a guess on anybody’s part, but if Seattle can also pull off a trade for Price, then they’ve got a pretty good shot at making the WS for quite a few years.
For sure, that rotation is scary.
And pitching almost always beats hitting but.
Their hitting is really bad.
Texas and the A’s seems committed enough to fend them off.
Also it just “feels” like they don’t want it enough.
Chalk it up to baseball superstition.
Although it would most certainly improve their standing in the league, I would hardly say acquiring Cano and Price vaults the Mariners from dregs to perennial WS contenders, not even considering what they’d have to give up for Price.
Agreed. I’d still have them last in the division after those two moves. That team is a mess.
Whoa whoa champ.
I know, it’s sometimes difficult remembering that the Astros are now in the AL West. But yeah I’d peg them for fighting over 3rd with the Halos.
Yanks shouldn’t even go 200M. Their offer at $160-175M for 7 years is more than adequate. Let him and recoup a draft pick.
Robbie from 37-40 is going to produce much more value than the average supplemental round draft pick will produce in their career.
Probably true.
They’re also a decent bet to lose the pick anyway due to McCann, Ellsbury, and whoever else they would sign with the money had tagged for Cano.
I’d go 8/$200. An even $25 mill/season. Does he really want to go to Seattle? Ellsbury didn’t, clearly.
I don’t get why so many people are like, “Bye bye Robbie”. I’d go 10 years/$250mm. Why not? As long as $189mm goes out the window, what the fuck do I care what Hal does with his money? I love watching Cano field. Who cares if the contract sucks in 2021.
When have the Yankees ever been handicapped by a bad long term contract?
I agree….then I realize the Yankees are going to be paying Alex Rodriguez for another 20 years.
There’s a line.
I think MLB will do the right thing and kick Arod out of the league.
Then we can afford to pay Cano.
No. The arbitrator will let A-Rod off without a suspension. MLB is out to screw the Yankees any way they can. If they think suspending A-Rod will allow the Yankees to sign Cano, A-Rod gets a zero game suspension.
Signed,
Half the posters on this site.
Since they haven’t actually signed any high-impact free agents since 2009.
welcome to the world Darren, since you must have been born sometime between Oct 1 2013 and now.
Because your gonna end up with underachieving old players making way to much money, which is what they’ve said they were trying to get away from.
When they didn’t sign Yu Darvish.
When they relied on Chris Stewart as an MLB starting-caliber catcher.
When Ichiro Suzuki’s grandfather was secretly signed to a 2 year deal.
When we’re picking up Red Sox Spring Training DFA’s to play 1B for a full season.
When the farm system is barren in 2021, our payroll is $243 million and we’re a 74 win team, then you’ll care.
I want this team to have consistent, long term success. It’s been done before. A very important part of that is smart spending AND smart drafting.
The fact is, everyone on this board is focusing on the way the Yankees SAY they want to operate and not reality. NONE of their long term contracts HAVE EVER stopped them from making moves.
They didn’t sign Darvish because they were burned by Igawa and the Rangers went crazy outbidding everyone, remember? We all would have KILLED the Yankees if they paid a $55m posting fee. It had nothing to do with any long term contract on the books or not having the money to pay him.
Chris Stewart was the starter because Cashman was weirdly incompetent about dealing with the hole at catcher. They could have had Martin or Pierszynski for short term low dollars but they chose not to.
How is signing Ichiro a result of having bad long term contracts on the books? You can hate the signing but it’s not like there were a ton of better options that they ignored because of Tex/CC/Arod. They were tired of Swisher and didn’t think he was worth the money, it’s not like they didn’t have the flexibility to sign him. Who else was out there?
How does signing Cano to a long term contract result in a barren farm system in 2021? There’s no correlation at all.
Signing Cano would be great for the Yankees, from a baseball standpoint and a business standpoint.
There’s absolutely no good reason NOT to overpay for Cano, other than an emotional reaction based on the perception that you’re a better run organization if you act like Billy Beane. But he worked the market the way he did because the A’s had no money, not because it’s intrinsically better. The Yankees are not the A’s and there’s no reason to act like they are.
All of those moves above were definitely financially motivated.
Swisher
Stewart
Ichiro
Darvish
All of them.
Plenty of fans, including on here, wanted Darvish. Why were they burned by Igawa? Because his big contract burned them.
Why did they not want to pay Martin? Because plan 189 was in embryo.
Why did they not pursue a better option through trade or whatever the market was? Definitely financially related.
No, Igawa burned them because he sucked from day 1 not because his contract was an albatross. It was only a $20mm deal. They were worried Darvish was an unknown like Igawa; that’s pretty different than wanting him but being handicapped by the money on the books.
You can say the $189mm plan had an effect on Martin but the much bigger reason was the weird checklist Cashman had of dealing with pitching before addressing catching.
And again, my point is, if, and it’s a big, if, they decide that the $189mm plan isn’t worth the lost attendence and shitty ratings, then last years’s one time only, weird offseason non moves means that $250mm for Cano makes as much sense as anything.
It’s not the money… it’s the roster spot and the player.
No. People are complaining about the money more than anything. As we’ve seen with Arod,and to a lesser extent Tex and CC, a diminished superstar is often much better than the replacement options. A shitty, old Cano in 2020 will probably still be better than whoever the next David Adams is. And if the Yankees have some stud second baseman coming up, they’ll find room.
As we’ve seen, it’s really, really difficult to find young players who can really play. The Jeters and Canos are miracles. Worry about 2020 in 2020.
Sorry, but I couldn’t disagree with you more. It’s about financial flexibility, not paying a player for 7-10 years for perhaps 3-5 years of decent production, and knowing when to cut bait. The Yanks and other teams have agreed to long term deals time and time again, and with the exception of perhaps Jeter and Mussina, these contracts don’t work out when given to players past 30. Look at Giambi, A-Rod (issues aside), Tex, CC, Pujols, and others. Paying Cano 200M for 8 years may look good for 3, maybe 4 years, but once he starts breaking down and/or his production slides significantly, people will start yelling from the mountaintops how he sucks and he needs to go. It’s already happening with CC and Tex and the Yanks still have them under contract for 4 and 3 more years, respectively.
You cannot put Pujols in this same conversation. He gave LA exactly ZERO seasons of marquee production for that marquee cost. You cant say the same about Giambi, A-Rod, Tex & CC.
Yeah, let’s sign a 31-year old who has NEVER won an ALMVP award let alone posted 30 HR and 100 RBI in a season (something Soriano has done FOUR times including the past two seasons) through his age 41 season for $25M less than what A-Rod took for 2008-17, that makes a ton of sense. Thank heaven you are not part of Yankee ownership. Idiot.
BYE.
I don’t believe this. I hope we don’t budge and let Cano sweat some more. He will eventually sign with us for less than 200 million.
He’ll set a record for OBP next year… 100 walks here he comes!
Cya Robbie. Seriously, I agree with some in here who think the 7/$165 was more than substantial. If Cano can get 8-10 years, or $200-250 million elsewhere, let him. I hope the Yankees don’t cave. Paying players into their late 30′s is suicide for a teams roster, and overall flexibility. Having the money or not, a 39 year old Cano at $25+ million per, will be grotesque. This would be Arod all over again.
I would let him walk at these dollars, and use that money to solidify the team elsewhere. I’d look into Kemp, if the medicals are clean. Kemp at say 6/$100 in an OF with Ellsbury, Gardner, Soriano (unless one is moved) would be insanely good. Plus Kemp would provide that RH power that the team is currently lacking. If not Kemp (he’s just a suggestion), then use the money to sign Garza, who won’t cost a pick, and maybe Infante. A trade for Murphy in NY wouldn’t hurt either. He’d be serviceable at the very least. I love Cano, but 7 years is already far too many.
@bpdelia- ESPN Deportes is no less reputable than ESPN. A Spanish reporter is perfectly capable of getting a scoop of this caliber.
It’s called work.
I think they’ve swung and missed before. Can’t remember specifically when.
pretty sure they were behind the Arod to the Marlins ridiculous trade rumor
Yep absolutely
Regretted it after I pressed submit
My bad. Move along nothing to see here.
I still don’t believe that offer has been made but my suddenly appearing latent racism isn’t the reason.
I hear Jay-Z made a Mariners cap more famous than any Mariner can.
In Seeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttlllllllllllllleeee.
Post-modern pine and reasonably clean downtown, there’s nothing you can’t do.
In Seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttttllllllllleeeee.
This weather feels like it’s gonna rain, oh wait it’s been raining since July.
One hand in the air for medium-sized city. Coffee shops, grunge bands all lookin pretty. No seafood in the world that can compare. Drive your hybrids to the game…
that’s all i got
Well done.
+1
+1
The report seems to have disappeared from my MLBTR app, FWIW.
You might want to double check that.
There it is.
I don’t know about the app, but it is on the main MLBTR page.
Is the app any good? I’ve yet to download it.
Love the app.
I think the Yankees draw a hard line here and let Robbie choose: Your Legacy or The Money.
They’ve already shown their fan base their willing to spend money. 7 years, 175 would be more than fair here. Cano’s gotta live with that (I hope he’s got a good raincoat).
They have needs beyond Cano, and I have to be honest. I’d take a few years of Infante + K. Morales & an arm for that kind of annual money.
I think the interesting dynamic here is the JayZ/Boras angle. Does Jigga have the stones to let his first big free agent leave NY for a paycheck, to a non-contender ranked 25th in attendance? Especially after promising to build Cano into a brand? Does he let Boras and the Ellsbury signing derail his OG plan? And I do think Cano struggles landing endorsement in Seattle. Griffey was much more charsimatic than Cano, and Ichiro had a sizable asian fanbase in Seattle. Not sure the Caribbean Hispanic population is quite as strong in the pacific NW…
The hard line approach doesn’t work on this type of deal, and the Yankees know that. Their first offer was not going to be their last offer as they knew a market would develop for Cano, so they had to wait for that to appear. It might be happening now if this story is true. They will increase their offer, which was part of the plan, yet I don’t see them going up to 240M.
8/200.
Agree, and the 7/175 reflects that. Remember, that offer is not currently on the table. So you move the AAV up, but take the hard line on years.
The last 2 years of a 7/175 deal won’t be worth it. I wouldn’t go for tack another year on just to keep cano in pinstripes. They don’t owe him that, that’s his choice to make: $ or Legacy (incl supplemental Madison Ave $).
I’d rather take that money, get infante, a cheap bopper like morales, and an arm. They got holes to fill…
Something tells me the Yankees already knew about this and that’s why they tossed money at the 2nd best FA out there when it seemed strange to everyone
up to $240M?! Hopefully that’s erroneous, otherwise…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReYfu5E-hOE
If This is true, and Robinson Cano can get the Arod contract in Seattle God bless him, take it and run. Of course, the Mariners are not only behind the Seahawks in the local pecking order, but Washington Husky Football as well, so it’s not he will be Jay Z or something, when it comes to being a celebrity., and when it comes to marketing opportunities. Not to mention the fact, they have an atrocious lineup and Safeco is like Citi Field for hitters ( so kiss Cooperstown goodbye). Finally, I bet the Yankees win Title 28 before the Mariners win Title 1 ( Cano or no Cano).
There’s no way the Yankees should go to 10 years. What I think they should do is offer to beat that AAV on a shorter deal, say 8/200 or even 8/208 with an option for the 9th year that vests if he’s still healthy and productive near the end of the deal. That lets him represent it as a win while also saving us from those last couple years. If he’s adamant about the 10, then I hate to say it, but I think that’s the end of the road.
Goodbye, Robinson. Thanks for everything.
Meanwhile, next few years are going to be super rough for NYY. Short term we’re going to watch some very mediocre baseball.
Good Luck in Seattle Robbie. Thanks for the memories
Shit just got real..
Talk about hitting the fan. Literally!
I mean its not my money, but if giving him a monster deal hinders the Yankees from making other moves then I am not for it. Never understood why people care about how much he makes or if the Yankees are saving money on the deal.
If Kuroda indeed comes back and they shift Cano’s money to say Infante + Garza or Tanaka…
Catcher – significant upgrade
1st – upgrade
2nd – significant downgrade (but probably similar to the upgrade at C? Maybe even less?)
SS – upgrade (even if Ryan plays a bunch)
3rd – upgrade (even with no time from ARod)
OF – significant upgrade – Sori/Wells + Garder + Ichiro to full year of Sori + Gardner + Ellsbury
Starters: about the same. Garza replacing Petitte, maybe some bounceback from CC to offset any potential downgrade pf Phelp/Pineda/Nuno vs Hughes? Nova – hard to say
Pen – significant downgrade (at this point), but they should have money left for one good arm (probably could use 2)
I don’t want to see Cao walk, but the 2014 team is already upgraded at most spots on the diamond. If they used the Cano money to get a cheaper solution at 2nd and a quality starter, I think the Yankees would be in better shape than people think.
I don’t want want to see **Cano** walk either
7/175 is my limit but my first name is Larry not Hal or Hank. The team just has to walk away. The contract maybe fine for 3 years then Ok for 3 years as Cano moves to third and DH. The guy will always hit because he goes the opposite way on pitches. But years 7,8,9 and 10 maybe ugly at 24 million per year. It’s sad if the reports are true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBYlwvGINTA
Very Timely
Now I’ll be thinking about baseball when we watch this tonight!
Oh please, Robbie isn’t going to Seattle!
Robbie (and Jay-Z) are all about the ego and being the superstar – moving to Seattle is not going to suit their plans. Maybe someone like the Dodgers jump in but I don’t think so. Robbie will sign with NYY at or around $200m.
Write that down.
This.
I cannot comprehend the comments on here and MLBTR saying this is a done deal. I can’t see this as anything BUT a negotiations technique. The extra 30-40 million and two years CAN’T be worth going to a non-contender and that ballpark.
Its not like going from 0 to 30-40 million, there certainly is diminishing returns after say, 100 million, probably a lot less to be honest. Shit, that is insane money, but it is what it is.
I think you are dead on 8/200.
Look how easily the Mariners can spin it:
-This is Robinson Cano’s team. Wouldn’t shock me if he’s named their captain.
-They are loaded with prospects. Cano can lead a young team to the playoffs
-They can trade those prospects to acquire talent like David Price, which makes MLB team better
-If Cano leads them to playoffs and they win W.S., he’ll forever be a baseball hero.
Seattle is King Felix’s team and Robbie couldn’t lead the Yanks to the playoffs so he sure isn’t going to take Seattle out of the cellar to get there.
in related news, jay z announces he will perform a free concert in downtown seattle
It might be postponed a couple of times before they get a rain-free day.
I also want to see the Yankees hold firm just once, JUST ONCE!
It would be mighty helpful in all negotiations moving forward.
I guess the yankees will have to pay Cano his original demand of 10 years 300 million.
Yea, Ok
bridge for sale in Brooklyn
I think Cano cares more about his legacy in NY than an extra 40-50 million.
We won’t lose Cano like Boston lost Ellsbury. I just won’t believe it.
Well, Robbie… If “Frasier Crane Day” is what you had in mind regarding fame, say hello to Seattle!
If he wants to go rot in baseball hell (Seattle) I’d drive him myself. I’m tired of these crippling contracts. I understand he wants to get paid but there must be a team around you to win.
I agree. I’d take our starting pitching over Seattle’s any day. Who they do they even have?
Some guy called King Felix. Iwakuma was in contention for the Cy Young. But Cano isn’t signing there because of 1 or 2 players.
And with that top 2 I’d take Seattle’s rotation easily meanwhile we only have two starters with one coming off a crappy year and the other is inconsistent and was sent to the minors not too long ago.
Who do they have? Who do WE have?!
Whoosh….
Robbie’s Theme
(to the tune of “Arthur’s Theme”)
When you get caught between the Ms and New York Yankees
I know it’s crazy
but it’s true
When you get caught between the Ms and New York Yankees
The best that you can do
The best that you can do
Is grab the loot.
Well done!
If this is true, I see it being very similar to Albert and the Cards. They gave him a very good offer, were even willing to up it a bit, but eventually couldn’t (and rightfully so) match it. Same here, maybe the yanks would go 8 for $200M, but not 10 for 240. So if it is 240 then good luck and congratulations Robbie(sincerly)and like the Cards we’ll be much better off in the long run.
Yeah but the Cards all ready had a more than adequate replacement in Craig in addition to Fatt Adams in AAA to go along with a killer pitching staff to contend with. Yankees don’t have that luxury.
Precisely, the yankees don’t have a clue how to develop or trade for players so they have to keep on paying for agings ones past their prime.
here they come to snuff the cashster…
you know he ain’t gonna die!!!
robbie stays in nyc for 8/210
The only two teams to really fear, in my mind, are CHC and WAS. These leaks about Robbie negotiating with complete jokes like the mets and SEA shouldn’t be putting the pressure on anyone in the Yankee FO.
Seattle trying to bluff us into hanging out a mega contract.
I think we’ve already shown the willingness to sign mega contracts.
“Is that Darrell bidding? Yuuuuup!”
You’re not gonna dig the long plane flights to every city as a result of playing in Seattle, Robbie. Don’t do it.
Raise the AAV, but stick to 7 years.
1. That contract is insane, and the truthfulness behind it has to be considered dubious, at best, if not completely bogus.
2. If, on the outside chance, it is a legit offer, the Yanks have to shake Cano’s hand and wish him well. That contract is a suicide pact between him and the Mariners.
Hey NY area papers, allow me to write tomorrow’s headline:
Robbie Cano, Don’t You Go!
Heyman made a great point. A-Rod badly wanted to go to the Mets but ended up with the Rangers because the money was too good to pass up.
Same situation here. He will not accept a dollar less. Just won’t, it’s wishful thinking.
And he shouldn’t have to. The yankees always pay top dollar, so why should Cano have to accept slave wages from the richest team in sports?
23 million a year over 7 years is not slave wages.
But look who you’re talking to.
If it is then Sabathia was a slave since he took that, initially.
If the Yanks tacked on a mil for $162M and Cano took that, Cano would receive a higher payout than Sabathia, Cabrera, Ellsbury, Manny Ramirez, and essentially 99% of MLB contracts.
Ellsbury, is making 25 million annually from the yankees. Cano has to take 2 million less? Holy crap.
Crap, I screwed my math mixed up. Cano would only be earning a little over a million more than Ellsbury every year. The yankees can surely do better than that for their own guy and Canon knows it. Now with Seattle in the mix they better pony up.
I love Cano, but there is just something about the guy that always seems a little off, in terms of building a championship around him. I can’t fathom what Seattle is thinking of, and I wish the Yanks would sign the guy, but if he walks it’s his loss. I don’t see Seattle winning anything in the near future.
@CashJr- Yeah, it does have that Pujols/Cardinals stamp.
I hope we make out as well as they did!
I did see Jay-Z on stage with Pearl Jam in Philly last summer. So there’s that.
@Anthony- Ah, yes. The Mets were doing damage control with the “24 + 1″ party line at the time.
Is it just me or does anyone else not understand this move from Seattle’s perspective? I get the “win now” aspect but even if they do get Cano, who will protect him? Kyle Seager? Then Seattle claims they are looking to add two big bats and another pitcher.
Who will the other bat be and arm be? Nelson Cruz? Garza? Tanaka (assuming he’s posted)? If they want a significant bat and an ace they’re going to have to get it in a trade. I’d say the best bat on the trade market right now is Stanton and the best arm is undoubtedly Price. To pull off those trades they’d have to give up some combination Walker, Franklin, Zunino, Miller, Paxton, Peterson, and Hultzen.
I would argue that those trades would only make them worse as soon as 2015.
Seattle has a good bunch of prospects but if they really want to go balls to the wall why don’t they wait until they’re guys have had time to mature and then go all out once guys like Heyward, Upton, Harper, and Trout hit free agency?
Maybe the idea is to build around Felix while they still can. It would be a shame to let his career slip away without even trying to sniff contention.
Move him to the Yankees then…
+1
I’d offer 8/200. If he doesn’t sign for that, then oh well.
But I’d be left with a really bad feeling if Seattle got him without the Yankees even offering that much.
Now, if he still walked away, that’s another story.
I still think that if the Yankees did not have a strong idea that they would resign Cano they would never have signed Elsbury.
I still think that if the Yankees did not have a strong idea that they would resign Cano they would never have signed Ellsbury.
The issue is not the money, but the years.
By the way RIP Nelson Mandela
“6:16pm: Ken Rosenthal says he asked the Mariners for ten years and $240M. The team did make an offer but it was not over $200M. Last we heard, Robbie asked the Yankees for $250-260M or so. His price just came down again.”
B..bb…but teh M’s are all in!!
predictably, rosenthal’s latest tweet renders this entire thread meaningless
heh
What Joe said this morning.
THIS!!!!
That’s why from now until he signs all Cano’s contract threads will be answer with : 8 for 200 by Mr. Mustang.
Okay, Rosenthal’s talking us all off the crowded ledge. I’ll rest a bit easier now. The crisis is manageable.
The Yankees are being very fair with their current offer.
While I would’ve agreed about a week ago, I think the Ellsbury deal changed that a little bit. I’d like for them to still hold strong on the years (maybe just add one if absolutely necessary), but would be a little disappointed if they lost him by not upping the money a little considering how they just valued Ellsbury.
Agree.
From my perspective, going beyond 7 years would be a huge mistake. He is, after all, a year older than Ellsbury, so while he has earned more AAV, in terms a years, he should take a shorter deal, especially since on average, middle INFers don’t age well.
who cares if he’s year older then Ellsbury.. Cano has been 100 times more durable then him..
Baseball historical positional data.
It is more potnt than focusing on Ellsbury’s freak injuries.
The reports are reporting different things.
Rosenthal is reporting on SEA’s current offer on the table.
Rojas was reporting they were willing to go to 10/230-240 (doesn’t mean they made that offer)
Heyman also was reporting the M’s were willing to go to 10/230
If an offer is made, but it isn’t on the table, is it really an offer at all?
IF the report is true that the M’s offer is still under 200 then the Yanks should not budge and their only response to Jay Z should be….Seattle? really? Seattle? Does Robbie want to sponsor grunge rock or Roca Wear?
I wish I could be as rational as everyone else about this but I just can’t. I don’t see how they can replace his production any time soon. If it comes down to overpaying him (always does…) so be it. That’s my feelings at least.
I’m channeling my grandmother:
“It’ll all come out in the wash.”
It doesn’t help that he’s by far my favorite player either.
If Robbie wants to take more money and play in Seattle, see ya Robbie. More power to you.
I don’t care about contracts if the Yankees aren’t going to be on a budget going forward. That being said, Cano is not worth a $230m investment over 10yrs at his age, I don’t care if every other FA is getting over paid, none of them are coming with that type of risk. Any team that signs Cano for 10yrs for $230m are idiots. You can almost bank on half that contract being worthless.
If its between 200 million from Seattle and 175 from NYY Cano should just stay lol My gut tells me the Nats come out of nowhere with 250 hoping not though.
8 for 200
Heyman says Cano bid is 225 for 9 years.
Heyman says they’re offering 9/$225M.
See ya, Robbie.
Well, it’s been fun.
Hope he doesn’t regret it.
Well if Seattle is offering that much, Cano should take it. It also comes with a cost as he will be playing on bad teams and his numbers are going to take a significant hit in that park. Good luck Cano.
6:45pm: The Mariners are “about to offer” Cano a nine-year, $225MM deal, CBS Sports’ Jon Heyman reports. Heyman indicates that Seattle is bidding $225MM to stay $50MM ahead of the Yankees, whose don’t want to top $175MM.
Will the Yankees go 8/200?
Is one year enough to go from NY to WA?
WHERE IN THE WORLD IS CARMEN SAN DIEGO?
still waiting for the nationals to jump in…
I think 175/7 is what id do. sounds very reasonable imo. the reason I’m willing to pay him that much is I think he will be durable throughout the contract.
But mean while the Yankees gave Ellsbury 153/7 for a guy who’s heals super slowly…
Yeah I don’t value Ellsbury Doughboy that much. Maybe I would’ve given him 5/90 tops. But I really do hope he overplays himself and does better than the contract !!!
if they value ellsbury at 7/153 and won’t go to 8/200 for cano, then it’s a world gone mad
Even more funny is that Boston was only willing to go 5 years 80MM with Ellsbury. Pretty much the Yankees doubled the money. just wow
Someone would have topped that offer. Els was less valuable to the Sox than others because they have a C ready to come up and play in Jackie Bradley Jr.
The same Jackie Bradley Jr that’s not very good at all? Seems legit
Actually reports were 5-6 at 20 per.
If there M’s are going 225, does it really matter if the Yanks are will to go 8/200? Seems like Robbies goal has been to get the most money possible, it doesn’t seem like leaving 25m on the table is something hes going to do. At that money I certainly would to stay in NY and not have to live in Seattle, play in that stadium on that team. BTW, seattle is a great place to visit but I couldn’t live in that weather.
May as well just offer him $189 million over 7 years. Higher annual salary for Cano, just less years. I’m sure they could figure out some sort of vesting option for years 8 and 9 if it came down to it.
I think Cliff Lee took less total money from NYY to get the higher annual average value from Philly, so it certainly wouldn’t be unprecedented.
That number. It’s perfect!
It’s destiny.
Here’s my offer to Cano:
7 years x $23M a year = $161M total
Opt-out clause after the 2016 season.
$25M vested option for every ALMVP award OR the World Series MVP award he wins up to three vested options so he makes $186M for 8 years (same as Sabathia ultimately got) if he wins either award only once, $211M for nine years if he wins two awards, $236M for ten years if he wins three.
Tack on $4M to his tenth year for $29M total if he wins three awards for $240M total for a decade.
Give him $5M for just two 6-10 place finishes in the ALMVP voting so he could make $250M total for a decade.
I think cano would know better that it’s hard enough to win an MVP when your a Yankee
Really?
1976 ALMVP Thurman Munson
1985 ALMVP Don Mattingly
2005 and 2007 ALMVP Alex Rodriguez
Besides that the Yankees have the most MVP awards with 22.
I think this is more than fair. If he wins the 2014 ALMVP, he has seven years to win another ALMVP award or be a World Series MVP. If he wins the 2014 AL and World Series MVP, he automatically makes $211M for nine years and has EIGHT years to win another ALMVP or World Series for $240M total for a decade, again $250M if he finishes 6-10 in the ALMVP voting in two of the other seven years. If he never wins another AL or World Series MVP but finishes in 6-10 place in the AL voting twice, he makes another $10M for $221M total across a decade. He could make $221M for a decade as early as 2016.
Note: The $5M per 6-10 ALMVP voting bonus can be in a year he wins the World Series MVP.
Cano will put the Seattle cap on and talk about how great it will be to play behind King Felix, and how excited he is to help lead their young talent to the playoffs.
* play behind King Felix every fifth game/day until King Felix has enough of the losing and wants out of Seattle (which he might want.)
Cano may want out eventually as well — but he’ll make sure he’s got that contract locked up first. Seattle will trade him to save money down the road (while eating some of the contract); Cano will waive the no-trade clause he’ll most certainly have. Is any of this really surprising?
Trade him to who? He better win at least one ALMVP award within three years before he plans his escape because if he doesn’t NO ONE is taking on the final six years x $25M a year = $150M (assuming he takes the 9 year $225M offer Seattle has reportedly made him) of a 34-year old who has played a dozen years in MLB and STILL hasn’t won an MVP award much less a batting title or even a postseason award.
“Seattle will trade him to save money down the road (while eating some of the contract)”
That’s not happening. They’re stuck with Cano like the Angels are stuck with Pujols and Hamilton and Texas could be stuck with Fielder if he declines.
‘Say Cano takes 9 and 225 then 2008 style sucks 2014-15. No one’s taking on his remaining $175M – X even if the Ms threw in money. What would the Ms throw in, $5M a year? I can’t see more than that. If that then his take is on the hook for $140M – not happening. ‘Say it’s as much as $8M a year for the final seven years for $56M kicked in. No one is taking age 33 Cano for seven years $119M, I just don’t see it. $17M is a TON of money to take on for a guy in his age 34-40 seasons.
If he sucks they’re stuck with him.
I’d agree with you, but Fielder is only in Texas because he had a weak year in Detroit.
See also: Vernon Wells to the Angels; Vernon Wells to the Yankees; Soriano to the Yankees; Crawford, Gonzalez, and Beckett to the Dodgers.
I was going to mention those other deals too but the Dodgers-Sox thing was more of package concept. Take the bad to get the good included.
The point remains. “Untradeable” players with bad contracts get traded when the current team is willing to eat a big chunk of the money. And it’s not really that rare when teams ultimately cave in just to dump the guy and save at least some money.
It’s not happening? What would you have said a few days ago about Seattle jumping into the fray at this level for Cano? That they’d never be interested, never offer that much? How did Vernon Wells ever leave Toronto with his contract?
Whether he sucks or not – or they want to trade him or not — he still gets the big guaranteed money. That’s the bottom line. The rest of the talk here is just fans rationalizing the return of the home-grown star for significantly less money. Talk about something that’s not happening? That’s not happening.
A-Rod can do the Yankees a favor by telling Cano that playing in Seattle sucks. Irony.
Hee.
A-Rod is praying the Yanks don’t keep Cano cuz if they do A-Rod is being suspended for all of 2014, no way the Yanks sign McCann, Ellsbury, Cano, AND possibly Kuroda and Tanaka or both not knowing if A-Rod will be suspended for all of 2014. If the Yanks sign Cano they must know A-Rod is a goner thus $25M off the books for 2014.
Walk away. Infante and a Starting pitcher for the same annual cost as Cano. Fill 2 spots here without any 8-9 year commitments.
Walk away.
Infante will cost too much. Why would he take the 3 years $25M I’ve read writers saying he’d get (based on what?) when he could ask for as much as 4 years x $10M a year = $40M total and what are the Yanks gonna do if they don’t start Johnson, move Jeter to 2B? Infante’s agent could simply say “You’d be getting my client for 3 years and $121M less than what you initially offered Cano and (Infante) would still be 3 years younger than Cano at contract’s end if you signed Cano to seven years (35 vs. Cano’s 38), 6 years younger if Cano took ten years from Seattle.”
I’d go with one year $3M low risk high reward Johnson at 2B, make Ryan the SS, sign Beltran for RF, move Jeter to 3B, Soriano to DH, starting nine set:
Gardner L
Jeter R
Ellsbury L
Beltran S
McCann L
Teixiera S
Soriano R
Johnson L
Ryan R
How appropriate would it be if the three new big-money acquisitions would make up the heart of the order. The table-setters remain the same. The second line of power bats bat sixth and seventh. The weakest hitters bat eighth and ninth.
Ellsbury in the 3-spot? You want a guy who MIGHT hit double-digit HRs in the 3-spot?
No, I want a guy who I think could post .310/.380/.500/.880 with 15-20 HR and 100 RBI from being protected by switch-hitting Beltran and having the Yankees short right-field porch plus a sixth of the season (27 games) in divisional bandboxes (Fenway Park, Camden Yards, and Tropicana Field.)
You wouldn’t be happy with that slashline, even just 15 HR, and 100 RBI? I would.
Also it could be as many as 100 stolen bases from the top of the order assuming Gardner and Ellsbury steal 45 bases each, Jeter 10 (the more Jeter steals the less the other two have to steal.)
Jeter’s not moving to third. And if the Yankees are starting both Ryan and Johnson everyday they are in serious trouble.
That’s an extremely optimistic projection for Ellsbury.
EXTREMELY OPTIMISTIC.
I actually wouldn’t mind Infante. It’d be better if they could find a more solid overall option, but they could do worse than Omar Infante as a 2nd baseman. He’s solid and much, much cheaper. I’m still hoping Cano will settle for a 7 year deal, but it’s not looking likely.
lolwut
We could sign Cano and he could break his hand in spring training . . .
I refuse to get caught up in some Cano-or-doom scenario.
Well, you’re no fun
Oh, but I could be!
ill wait for hanley
Wow. Jack Z really is desperate.
Losing Cano is going to be a massive blow, but the Yankees can’t match that offer. Not without reliving A-Rod all over again. The Ellsbury contract remains a head-scratcher, but 9/225 for Cano is insane. He’s just not that good, and he’s 31 and not likely to age incredibly well.
They have to let him walk if this report is true. Then jump all over Infante and Beltran, and look to upgrade the rotation.
I really, really, really want Cano back, but for that price? Yikes!
7/175 would be my max offer to Cano. Take it or leave it. If he wants to go to Seattle for ten years and never sniff the postseason again, go ahead. No need for the Yankees to throw out an insane offer.
I’d consider going to 8/200. Or 8/195 if they want to be pedantic. But absolutely no more.
Why give him 8 years and $195/200M when no one else but a shit team is giving him more? Let him take his fat contract from a loser and be a loser himself if he did that cuz you are the company you keep.
Some people (not you) think Seattle is gonna be back in contention with King Felix and Iwakuma leading the way. Cano might have as little as four more years of prime KF as KF will be 32-34 in 2018-20. Iwakuma turns 33 next April.
I expect Felix is elite and durable enough to hang in longer than that, but even with their young pitching, it’s just not nearly enough. And in the same division with the Rangers and A’s and if they get their stuff together the Angels? Forget it.
I think they have to up the offer because of the Ellsbury deal, and because losing him would be so difficult to compensate for that they have to make a real effort to bring him back.
It’s only difficult to compensate for if they do nothing for RF, DH, and 3B which I don’t think would happen.
If Cano signs with Seattle I think the Yanks will immediately pounce on Beltran like they did with Ellsbury, maybe even give (Beltran) the three years he reportedly wants, and they’ll get him. He wants a World Series ring and would be a fool to choose a Royals lineup led by Butler, Hosmer, and Gordon over the Yanks’ lineup. If that happened, they acquired a new DH (sort of) as well as a new RF as Soriano would be the DH. If Johnson is the 2B, there is less pressure on him since he’d be the #8 or #9 hitter. The Yanks don’t need Cano production out of him/2B with a 1-7 batting order like I posted above.
Okay…then what?
Sure, they get Infante. Who is also 31 years old, will command at least a four-year deal for 12-15ish mil, and whose offensive success is almost entirely dependent on batting average.
They get Beltran. If they are lucky they’ll get a couple years of good production. Falling well short of what we’d get from Cano.
Maybe that makes up losing Cano. We’re then stuck with a team that by pythag record should have won 77 games. Yes, we’ve got Ellsbury and McCann, but those put the Yankees back into the contender range, assuming they get Kuroda and one more starter. It’s not enough to push them into Red Sox territory.
Losing Cano would be a big deal.
Why does it matter if only a “shit team” is giving him more money? If it’s a shit team or a contending team offering him more (and signing him), the fact is he’s not on your team anymore. Matching a 8/$200M isn’t going to kill the Yankees and will make their lineup much much deeper next year.
On another note, kind of annoyed the Yankees couldn’t spare 4 million for a run at Bellisario. He’d have been a bargain addition to a pen that needs bolstering.
off the field issues, no? Character & Makeup guys, AmiRite?
They offer 9/225. We offer 8/200 and a nice slice of “You’d really prefer to go to fucking Seattle?”
Holding steady at 175 when you just gave Jacoby Ellsbury 153 would be ridiculous, if you ask me.
I agree with how things have played out it would be sort of foolish not to go to 8/200. Its feasible that’s been the Yankees plan the whole time. Did anyone think the Yankees were going to get him for 175? I didn’t. I also don’t think they will go over 200m. But who knows, if Hal gets anxious we might be looking at another Arod contract and just close our eyes and hope for the best.
8/200 is really more than I was willing to go, but you’ve made a pretty convincing case there.
Exactly. and I think when/if that offer is made officially, that’s what the Yankees will do. If that’s not enough…they try to make it up elsewhere, hard as that will be.
Everything about this is ridiculous now.
I’m with you. It takes two to tango and there has to be a line, which I agree 8/200 is more than fair.
If Cano really wants that money and is willing to play in Seattle, then that’s his choice.
I’d go 8 years, but try to hold it to 8/$190. They need $$$ in reduced AAV wherever possible.
Why?
8/200.
Let’s all embrace it with solidarity.
Deep down we all knew it would come down to this.
Come home Robbie.
Come home.
I’ll say this once, and we’ll never speak of it again.
I’d let him twist my arm to 210.
BETRAYER AND WHORESON!
B-b-b-but R-Tils, what about those age 36-38 years?!?!?!
My answer: None of us will be commenting on RAB by then. Axisa will have his own ESPN afternoon show by then. Therefore, none of this matters.
I’m with you.
Let’s burn some bridges while the fire is hot.
Re-sign A-Rod 5 years 150 million.
I don’t know this guy.
*walks away*
So sounds like the Cano situation is going to come to a head here over the next day or so. That’s good, at least if they loose him they will have ample time to make moves.
My offer is this — nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally.
nice.
Hahaha awesome Godfather reference
Robbie, Robbie, Robbie, Robbie, Robbie, Robbie… I wanna be reasonable with you. Now, why don’t you stay with us – with the family. You won’t be deprived of anything, and you can have everything you want. Now — I don’t know this Jack Z. — I don’t know what he does — I don’t know what he lives on. Now why don’t you tell him that signing is out of the question, and you don’t want to negotiate with him anymore. Now he’ll understand, believe me.
LOL on a GF roll, nice!
It’s a Sicilian message. It means Saltalamacchia bats with the fishes.
Wow….
Just. Wow
why does anyone care what the yankees spend on Cano ? They just gave $152 million to a player with slightly better stats than Brett Gardner,so obviously money isnt an issue
Does it matter to anyone if Cano makes $25 mill a year or $28 million ?
I don’t care if he makes 50m a year as long as the Yankees can field a contender around that money.
There is a social silver-lining to this: If the Yankees get flat outbid for Cano, the argument from Yankee-haters that all we do is “buy” our success will take a satisfying hit. You can’t really be the scourge of baseball when the Seattle Mariners outbid you.
With the team the Yankees are putting together, I think its fair to say that they are buying any success they have going forward. Doesn’t matter to me at all though.
Just playing by the rules.
I just can’t see cano going to seattle. he would be the only good hitter in that lineup. but then again, it seems like he’s developed an ego and that’s what he wants. if he wants to be the star then so be it. a man with an ego is a loser.
You know what, 9/225 and 10/240 is about fair market price for Cano. Whether or not a team should commit to that many years is a different question altogether.
There’s been some talk about how much each win means to the Yankees (here and numerous posts in general at fangraphs). Conservatively, based off their actions thus far and the market in general, and the likelihood of the rising cost of a win, 9/225 and 10/240 are completely fair. I can’t believe I just typed that.
Shit I’d rather trade for Tulo whos always hurt than give Cano 10yrs. Look at the fiasco Arod has been and he was a far superior player to Cano. Theres a good chance that in 5 years Cano doesn’t even resemble the player he is today. Paying players into their 40s post steroid era is foolhardy. If it wasn’t for luxury tax they would be better off paying him 28-30m a year for 7yrs.
“Theres a good chance that in 5 years Cano doesn’t even resemble the player he is today.”
That is correct… which is why the team that signs him would have gotten a relative bargain the first 4 years… because the final 6 years are going to be pretty rough.
Look at Prince Fielder’s deal. He was slightly more valuable offensively than Robbie, but at the bottom rung of the defensive spectrum (and bad at that). He got 9/214.
I don’t think the smart play is signing him. The smart money is the strategy the Red Sox, A’s, Rays, Cardinals have employed, and it’s easy to see the fruits of their plan. For a single player in free agency, the numbers being thrown around by the M’s is totally market price.
The Sox, A’s, Rays, and Cards have been hitting the sales, clearance racks, opening the store credit card to save an extra 20%, etc. That strategy makes the most sense, but the Yanks don’t really seem too interested in it.
This isn’t ‘clearance rack’ type of market. There are not many mid-range options out there.
Uehara, Balfour, Colon, Beltran, Loney were all great bargains in the last couple years. There are some good deals out there. It’s a lot easier when you:
1) have tempered expectations (A’s and Rays)
2) a ton of young talent (Cards)
3) virtually every single player have a great year (Sox)
Okay, but how many of those are good options for the Yankees? Balfour is not going to come as a bargain – he’s a Proven Closer, albeit a tier below Nathan. Whenever you go over two years for a relief pitcher, I get nervous. They can blow up at anytime.
Loney was never an option because we have Tex.
Beltran *could* be great value, but he’s going to be nearing 40 with bad knees, and will command a three year deal at 15-16 mil. I would sign him regardless, but that’s not a bargain.
Colon is 40 years old. Last year was amazing, but I wouldn’t give him anything more than one year, and he completely petered out last time he was here, when he resurrected his career.
I think everyone’s okay with paying 25 mil AAV. But 8-10 years for a big second baseman who doesn’t have elite plate discipline and relies heavily on outstanding bat speed…there’s the problem.
Yes and no. If you think the average cost of a win is going to continue to rise, then at some point it becomes worthwhile to overpay in years 5-10, so you get the player in years 1-4.
Whether the Yankees should pay him that or not, isn’t my point. My point is the M’s are following the lead set by the latest top-tier free agent contracts.
I’m actually of the belief that free agent salaries are going to rise faster than they have in the last 10 years. So many players are signing extensions and foregoing free agency that an even greater premium will be placed on players who are available to all teams for nothing more than money and a draft pick. Then after some time, fewer players will sign extensions to cash in on the big bucks in free agency. Which will more or less flood the market and somewhat suppress free agency prices. Thereby encouraging more players to forego free agency and sign an extension. I think it will follow that cycle.
Look at some of the big money deals signed in the early 00′s… they weren’t all that different than those signed in the late 00′s despite inflation, increased cash flow to the teams, etc. I believe it’s because so few players signed extensions and the market was flooded. Need an ace, don’t trade the farm for Johan, just wait for CC to hit the market… he surely will. Teams can’t bank on that anymore, thus the escalating free agency salaries.
Nunez and Phelps for Kendrick’s ??
LOL I mean yeah definitely but that ain’t happening. Nunez is currently looking for the closest, biggest, and best apartment in Scranton as he’s gonna play half his season there.
Any twitter updates, etc.?
LOL, hey it could be worse guys. We could be M’s fans and looking at a 31yr old player taking up 30% of our payroll until hes 40yrs old.
Who is more likely a 20hr guy in Seattle than a 30hr guy.
Again, even without the Ellsbury deal, I don’t think the Yankees would have gone that high to begin with
Oh Cano, if you really want to play for the Mariners go on ahead.
I wonder if they think about bringing Granderson back. I think I’d actually prefer him on a fat three-four year deal than Choo on nine-figures for 6-7 years. They’ll need Grandy’s power.
Power! Unlimited Power!
You were the chosen one! You were meant to bat against the Mariners’ not join them!
If Cano leaves the Yankees can kiss any chance of making the playoffs next year goodbye
Good chance of kissing the HOF goodbye too. He wont be the same offensive player in that stadium for his next couple of prime years, let alone what it will look like when the decline begins.
Why is 8/200 now a good #, is it just conditioning from seeing the 7/175 #? Do folks really want to pay 75mil for Cano’s age 36-38seasons? While I don’t care about Cano getting the money – I’m assuming the Yankees will still be operating on a budget so it means less money for other players.
I get the need to overpay at the end of these big contracts, but 7/175 already has that built in.
And while it is natural to compare this to Ellsbury, that contract ends with a 22mil age 36 season and folks are already hating that deal.
8/200 is not a good number. However, where the markets are going I think its been pretty clear someone was going to give Cano $200m+. I think a lot of people, myself included were just hoping to get lucky and none of the big market teams would get involved and the Yankees could get a discount relative to whats going on in the market. Who saw a team that has a $100m payroll, be willing to commit 30% of it to Cano? It also has to do with the fact that now the Yankees have gone out and signed 2 very good players and Cano very well maybe the lynchpin to the playoffs.
“Do folks really want to pay 75mil for Cano’s age 36-38seasons?”
That, too, is a very valid point.
I am truly torn and have no idea what to think. Therefore, I just won’t any more until this is resolved. That’s why God invented Jagermeister.
Yes, I will pay it, only because there’s no possible way I’ll be hearing from blog commenters about it then.
Not *MOST* of them at least…
I’d love to say those are crazy numbers and the M’s are out of their minds, but here are Cano’s WAR #s over the last five years:
4.5
8.2
5.4
8.5
7.6
We could be watching one of our all-time greats walking out the door. No bueno.
Maybe better to watch him walk out the door, than watch him on the DL/Dh making 25m+ a year for 4 or 5 years.
This. It’s better to let a guy go a year early than a year late … or in this case several years too late. It’s not like Yankee fans are saying Cano will suddenly turn into a .260/10/70 player out of nowhere. He’ll still be good for many years, but the contract length means that there is a very strong chance that he’ll be nothing like the player he currently is when he’s still got a few years left getting paid elite money. The Yankees are currently paying for the mistake contract they gave A-Rod and the Angels are doing the same with Pujols. Let’s not make Cano be another mistake. If you get him for a good deal then fine, but if you extremely overpay him then the last few years of that deal is going to really hurt us.
Here is my only rebuttal.
Talent like Cano is getting harder and harder to find via FA. Teams are locking up their guys before they make it to the market. The chances of someone like Trout or Harper making it to FA is low.
The Yanks also have a terrible track record in creating their own help from the minors. I agree that its good to let a guy walk a year too early but 3 or 4 years too early? Thats kind of hard to justify. 10 years is too much but 8? Figure 3 are still top of the league All Star level, next 2 are very good then the next 3 could be a mixed bag. Decline, resurge, decline?
I can’t justify letting a player like Cano, who is our guy, to walk 3 or 4 years early.
Ehh, you cant count on that at all. As they get older injuries pop up that forces cliff falls. Look no further than Arod. There is also Chase Utley whos injuries forced him off a cliff. That slow decline/resurgence relys on health and when you sign a guy till hes 40yrs old that health is mostly like, not going to last. Even Jeter didn’t make it to 40 healthy. Then not only are you stuck with a declining injured player, but you cant even replace him because he on and off the DL and you’re always waiting for him to get healthy and produce..you’re trapped.
I think an 8yr deal should be the max they go.
No Jeter only made it to 39. So far!
He is beyond healthy. Can’t hold freak injuries against anyone but if you are afraid of injuries you won’t have a team. There is injury risk with anyone. His is low when you look at it objectively.
Seems freak injuries happen more often to older players. If I look at it objectively, I feel the odds are very good that players over the age of 35/36 get hurt. They had the same issues with Giambi and Posada after 35 too.
This.
http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....-1.1539270 I believe his dad i don’t think the yankees really want cano that bad. You dont go making a ridiculous offer to jacoby and offer cano 20 plus million more. I believe the reports that yankees wont touch 200. I get the 10 years thats absurd but to not offer 8/200 is just dumb. If cano signs for 225 i hope he kills the yankees every time they face each other while jacoby is on our d/l or hitting his 10 homers a year. If cano signs for 240 then i won’t be mad at yankees. I think the mariners will get robby and price. And fans thought we went crazy overpay for ellsbury haha wait till we sign choo and his stellar hitting against left handers. When jacoby is on the d/l and tex cant hit bombs cause of his wrist and soriano age catches up and jeter cant be jeter its going to be ugly but i’m just pissed right now
Oh, his dad thinks that? Well, I guess there’s no possibility of him being wrong.
Robbie Cano’s dad would never, ever stoop as low as trying to drum up some controversy in order to get his son some attention from the Yankees. Never. Nunca.
All is fair…
It’s all about the airfare.
Wait until he Googles “Monfongo bueno Seattle.”
Elsbury is signed through his age 36 season. Cano wants to be signed into his 40s, big difference.
So long,
It’s been good to know ya!
We need pitching.
What are the odds he even finishes the deal in Seattle? We saw the same thing with Texas/A-Rod and Detroit/Fielder. They can’t afford these deals! Its destroying the market. Seattle will overpay like crazy for 3 or 4 years then trade Cano because they basically can’t afford him.
They could very well get stuck with him. I really think his stats take a big hit in seattle, hes not a slugger. Very possible/likely he hits ~20hrs. He will lose a lot of value the day he steps on the field in Seattle, I think. Shit in 3 or 4 years he could be a 10-15hr guy. Seattle could have to eat too much money.
Detroit was very smart. The first sign of decline and they got rid of Fielder. That first sign for Cano could be his first year in Seattle.
Not so fast. With my deal I thought I was stuck in Toronto.
Rofl, good point. However Vern your deal was chump change compared to what Cano is looking at. But the point is good, Vernon’s deal ended up being spread out over 3 teams.
That has to be some sort of negative for Cano. He may get those extra millions but, the chances are large that he ends up moving around the league spreading that contract out amongst several teams. There has to be a lot of value in knowing if the Yankees sign him, he stays a probably stays a Yankee for life, playoff just about every year, good chance at HOF and a plaque in Monument Park.
Yep. Make a splash then dump and eat a few years later. Player still wins though. He gets the $ no matter who pays what portion of it.
Via Chad Jennings at Lohud:
Brian McCann:
“You just know it’s a winning organization (with) tradition, but when I got to meet the people behind that, it was a big reason why I wanted to be here to be a big part of this process. I went to dinner with them, it turned into a three-hour dinner. We got to talk a lot. They got to know who I was as a person, and I got to know them. It was a perfect match, a perfect fit. … When the Yankees call you and you go through the process I went through, you leave blown away. There’s a reason they’re the New York Yankees. You walk in here, everything’s bigger. They put attention to detail on everything. They make you feel the way that you want to feel. … I wanted to be on the East Coast. I wanted somewhere where family was a big deal and right away, family was so big around here. Just the perfect fit, what they were looking for from a player standpoint, what I was looking for in an organization. Once we met for dinner, I think both sides were excited.”
“Once we met for dinner, I think both sides were excited.”
I think it was just the table leg…
“Breathes there a fish with soul so dead . . . ”
Did they meet on facebook? Cashman was probably disappointed when he found out McCann was a dude.
Tell me Brian, did they “blow you away” right at the table, or did they take you back to the hotel they comp’d for you first?
Havok just made an excellent point on facebook, “the Mariners informed him they were willing to pay” “about to offer” I’m not saying Seattle isn’t serious, but we all have to admit there is a very real chance that this is nothing but posturing by Jack Z to make the Mariners look relevant/important. However, if they are serious and do make a 9/225 offer to Cano, I’m with R-Tils. You counter with 7/195 or 8/200-210 with a slice of thin crust “do you really want to play in Seattle for the next 9 years?”
Also, to a lot of you guys, really? You’re that ready to just say straight up goodbye to the best player the Yankees have developed since Jeter because the dude’s trying to get paid? Robby is on path to be mentioned with Hornsby and Morgan as one of the greatest 2nd basemen of all time and you guys are just ready to get rid of him. And most of you waving goodbye already are the same who complain that the Yankees don’t develop from within. For shame.
They’re just upset that, in 2018, there probably won’t be internet forums to be all, like “I told you so” and will just have to sit there, watch, and yell into whatever we’re yelling into then.
Seems almost everyone is on board for something in neighborhood o 8/200 but no higher. Those waving goodbye just don’t want to match/beat the Seattle offer. We’ve seen how these 10 year deals pan out for players over 30.
Like most, it appears, I would cap it at 8 years and $200 million (just to use round numbers). Really, I don’t quite want to go that high, but I could be convinced if that would get it done. Certainly wouldn’t go to 9 years and $225.
If Seattle wants to go there, then so be it. I wouldn’t necessarily hate or begrudge him if he chooses to take the extra money. But, I would enjoy watching him and them continue to finish around or under .500 in a pretty mediocre division for years to come. Really, it would just confirm what many thought going into this, that it was all about the money and that’s it. That’s his choice, but you have to think that, even with the Yankees issues, he’d have an easier time winning more in NY than in Seattle. And obviously, that’s not even discussing his legacy and other things already established in NY.
It is nice to, hopefully, finally see the Yankees taking a stand in a negotiation and not just giving in to the player almost every time (like they’ve seemingly already done at least twice already this offseason). At some point, nostalgia should take a backseat to the long-term good of the organization and what might be the more prudent, though more difficult sometimes, decision.
Well that sums it up beautifully.
I wonder if the Mariners have played the “weed is legal here Robbie” card yet.
When you’re as rich as Robbie Cano’s going to be, weed is legal anywhere you go.
Lol yea, they are rough on weed users in NYC.
Our next mayor IS a Sox fan, though.
At least someone in NY is happy about this.
Ricky Williams says “High….no, no I wasn’t greeting you, I was just updating you on my current status.”
Speaking of people who hired rappers to negotiate shit contract situations for them….
LOL, I remember the Master P foray into player contracts. So bad.
Robbie should demand Melky as part of the package. Those dudes in a weed legalized state would be great television.
OH
MY
GODDDDDDDD
I will move to Seattle right muthfuckin now it this became a thing. The only two Dominicans in a 75 mile radius high on weed and pumped full of Venti Double Shot Lattes.
Sooooo… this Hot Stove season is pretty wild so far.
So does this mean Robinson Tilapia would change his screen name? I dunno, Jacoby Halibut doesn’t have the same ooomph.
Jacoby EelBlenny
Brett Piranha
Someone suggested Ivan Tuna.
*someone* is a goddam genius.
I know not of what you speak
I had already decided the screen name wouldn’t go past this offseason months ago. I’m tired of it, whether Robbie stays or not.
Any MLB player negotiation where fathers (or wives or partners) are quoted has taken a wrong turn.
Well, at least it’s more interesting that the wife shopping for real estate watch.
True.
Can’t complain about a lack of drama.
In all seriousness, I’m kind of fine with letting him go. There is zero data to back this and it is in cliche territory but giving. Robbie that much guaranteed money makes me concerned about his drive. Also would be interested to see what direction they go with that ‘found’ money.
If he wants anything over 8 years and 190 million then…don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Robbie.
Tell you what though, if they don’t get him, even if letting him go is the right move then getting Ellsbury is the very, very wrong move. Like, an absolute disaster of a wrong move. A “will hold the entire franchise back for years because of its awfulness” wrong move.
But he has a career OPS of .789
Those guys deserve to be paid 20+
Um, no it’s not. Ellsbury is good. And if they’re willing to have a $200 million contract he’s not holding them back from anything.
Main takeaway from all of this is the Yankees have to stop their “we won’t sign extensions before free agency” mantra. They could have had Cano for a relative song 2 years ago and locked him up for 8 years at 29 instead of 8 at 31 and $200 million.
I’m still betting he stays with Yankees.
Not contract, budget!
I think my comment was misunderstood, which is my my fault. I have no problem with the Ellsbury deal at all – if they also resign Cano. Then it seems as if they’re really interested in contending again, and not in just getting enough pieces to try and keep YES from slipping more in the ratings.
If they don’t re-sign Cano, or in some bizarre trick of fate a Cano caliber player, then all Ellsbury’s going to be is an overpaid, older, overrated, and semi-injury-prone body holding back the franchise in a micro version of the A-Rod
monstrositycontract.Fwiw, for 2nd Baseman from 1901-2013 ages 25-31, Robbie has the 3rd most homers, 14th highest average, 5th highest Slugging%, 20th highest wOBA, 11th highest wRC+, 10th best Runs above Replacement, and 10th most fWAR. I have no idea why I just did that much research, mostly because I made the claim earlier that Robby will be mentioned in the same breath as Morgan and Hornsbery, and I just wanted to see if my statement held up and because I’m a nerd I had to do so in detail.
my grandad says hornsbery was the best he ever saw
Ages 25-30** I was originally going to do 31 before I realized that Robby only just played his age 30 season.
there’s still a chance that seattle ownership sees this for what it is: a desperate and incompetent gm blowing up the franchise in an attempt to save his job
Maybe they’re doing it to get us back for grabbing Ellsbury.
That franchise has been blowed up for a long time now. This would pretty much ensure it stays blowed up.
Chuck a stick o’ dynamite into that burning house.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....y-z-120513
Ken Rosenthal, deliver us from evil.
I keep going back and forth. On one hand, it would be really tough for them if they lost Cano because they wouldn’t stretch to 8 years and $200 million. On the other hand, I keep thinking that maybe I only want them to go that high because the Ellsbury contract is so absurd (IMO) and Cano should be that much higher than him. Thus, it brings up that two wrongs don’t make a right, and therefore they shouldn’t compound the Ellsbury mistake with another on Cano.
Either way, just please have this come to some sort of conclusion at least by the end of the Winter Meetings next week. I just want it to be done.
And while we’re at it, just get the Tanaka and A-Rod stuff completed by New Year’s too.
Hey, if Mariners’ ownership is cool with paying that much money to a guy in his 30s who still might not make them a playoff team because their GM is basically in IDGAF mode figuring he’s out of a job if it doesn’t work out, that’s cool. I love Cano & he’s clearly the most important bat in the lineup these days but I just don’t think he’s a $25 million a year talent. These are strange days in MLB.
I’m fine with the Yankees not giving out contracts over $200m for 8 years, but I don’t understand why they thought Ellsbury was worth they gave him.
Having said, if Cano leaves, sign Choo, Tanaka, and one other significant move, and it will have been a successful offseason.
Right now the Yankees need a 2b, 3b & at least 2 SP’s. If the choice is Cano and scrap heap vets vs. some combo of Choo, Beltran, Garza, Tanaka, Ubaldo Jiminez etc. you start to see why the Yankees maybe would rather put money towards several spots than to just Cano. I don’t know what Cano is thinking, but 50 million is way too much to leave on the table. If the gap is 20 million it’s too much to leave on the table. That’s what his value is & signing under his value is going to be a tough pill to swallow for his family, the players union, etc. I don’t think the Yankees should go 9-10 years. I think 7 is the max and I’m comfortable with him walking for what Seattle is deciding he’s worth. He would be missed, but you take that money and fill in other holes and hope you make the team deeper to survive his loss. It would be a bitter pill, but what Seattle is rumored to be offering the Yankees should not match. If he slows down after 4 seasons he’ll get booed out of NY playing out the string. Cano never connected with the fans like Jeter/Bernie/Jorge/Mo/Andy have. He’s always felt, to me, like a too cool for school precocious upstart who has a sense of entitlement. I have more affinity for Melky to be honest.
I wouldn’t go one freakin’ penny past 9 years/$250 million dollars.
That’s very frugal of you.
I can hear George telling Hal: “Hal, now, you just got to draw a line in the sand, and you tell that young man, ‘Now Robinson, you are a great player. A great, great player. But we’ll give you $250 million dollars – now that’s a lot of money- but that’s it! Don’t ask for more or you can go sign with Seattle!!’ So go get him! Harold Zieg Steinbrenner, you go get your man!!”
Infield, Tex, Cano, Jeter, ARod (0 games), McCann
Outfield: Gardner, Ellsbury, Granderson
DH: Soriano
Bench: Ichiro, Wells, Johnson, Cervelli
Pitchers: Tanaka, CC, Kuroda, Nova, Phelps
Pen: Robertson, Claiborne, Kelley, Joba, Cabral, Betances, Warren
Looks pretty good to me. $189mm, 96 wins, World Series win
You’re forgetting Ryan, who has a major league contract now…plus the other ~5-10 guys who will see time in the majors due to injury/ineffectiveness, plus all the other things that go in to salaries. It sorta seems that depending on the A-Rod suspension that 189 is well out the window, so lets just go with that
Ok, I’m down. The hell with $189!
Why list A-Rod if you say he’s going to play 0 games? Or is that supposed to be 0 suspension? I’m one of the biggest A-Rod supporters here, but even I don’t see how he gets out of it with 0 suspension (though I would love it).
You’re also forgetting Brendan Ryan.
And there is a better chance of me making the Yankees bullpen than Joba coming back.
Agreed, the best team the Yankees can put on the field next season involves A-Rod at third
Also, I really want him to hit at least 715 homers for his career so he can pose at the plate for a few minutes, walk around the bases blowing kisses and then dig up a buried needle at home plate and thrust it into his ass before flipping off the cameras
Oh shtop it. I’m so done with this “Yanks are better with Alex on the field.”
Yanks are better if they make a trade for a decent third baseman. I’m sorry. The thrill was gone when he barely got through a month and change of playing last season.
Sorry, yes, I meant 0 games suspension and yes I forgot Ryan. i guess he replaces Joba on my roster. Fair enough! But I could see Yanks signing Joba to a $1mm deal, if he’d take it.
They’d cut wells and have Johnson be the fifth outfielder. Don’t need 5 true outfielders when 3 of them can play center
Yanks need to offer 8/$200 and if he walks for the the extra year and $25 million then screw him.
I’d really find that hard to believe though and I gotta believe that offer would get him back in pinstripes.
If they can give Ellsbury 7/$153, I find it really hard to not justify giving Cano 8/$200.
Cano is a year older and plays 2B. Ellsbury is an elite defensive CF. 2Bs have tended to fall off a cliff earlier than other positions. Even if not, Cano’s aging position is DH. Ellsbury’s is LF.
Cano has earned a higher AAV than Ellsbury, but not by much. And given the extra year of age he’s lucky they offered 7 years. His offer is by far the highest ever for a 2B. Yanks would be taking a risk as is going to 8 years, but if 8/$190 or $200 does it I’m sure they’ll say yes.
Sucks because they are competing against an idiot. This is a terrible, dumb deal by the Mariners if it happens. You don’t spend $250 million with the knowledge that your team will still suck.
yanks should let him walk. bum cant be bothered to hustle 90 feet but thinks he is worth 300 million. please, just go away cano.
What if the Yankees offered him 10 years/200 million? Tell him he’s going to be a Yankee for life, the endorsement deals alone will make up the difference in the AAV and the short porch means he might end up being one of the top 5 second basemen of all time. He’s going to lose a ton of homers by moving to the AL West
I agree. But Cano might be too egocentric to understand how that can work…
I’d draw the line at eight years. Ten years for a 31-year-old 2B is just gross.
This. Have we learned nothing from A Rod’s deal?
Quit knocking Seattle. It’s a very nice place. And it’s much more than just rain and coffee. You’ve got a nice monorail, and a wall made of used chewing gum, and those guys who throw the dead fish for the tourists. Plus, there are parades. I saw airline flight attendants marching in one. They used their role-y suitcases in very balletic ways. An open ’73 Mustang convertible carried Apollo Ono’s father, and another ragtop carried Ono himself. Both men waved. Also, lots of cruise ships come and go to Alaska, where they let you see Sarah Palin’s old office. And of course Russell Wilson is very, very good.
My parents went to Seattle last year…..
That’s all I got.
this !
Seattle has an entire underground city. I went on the tour.
Someone should tell Robbie. I bet that’d scare the shit out of him. Dominicans hate underground cities.
If you’re Seattle, and you offer that contract – you’re stupid.
Is Cano going to turn the Mariners into a contender? Come on.
Exactly, it’s not like Cano is going to come in and teach them all how to hit. Also, Cano could turn into Chase Headley in that ballpark
Can you imagine how many times Cano would hit a fly ball, flip the bat and start his homerun trot only to have an outfielder catch the ball at Safeco?
Hate to lose Cano to the Seattle fog & Old Fat Jack. But they need 2 SP as much as they need his bat & glove. The last 4 seasons they didn’t get where they wanted with him. They can do that without him too.
Let lazy Cano go,Seattle can have the Cano JZ &BeYonce party
@BNightengale: Cano’s last request to #Yankees: 9 years, $252 million, and $28 million vesting option. #Mariners still shy of that. http://t.co/c9PSSh7oq6
Yanks just can’t give out that kind of deal. Would be silly.
Just let him go.
7/175 is more than enough for Cano.
If his stated goal of switching agents to go with Jay-Z so he could be a “global icon” then good luck making that happen in Seattle.
The Yankees have a much better team in place, and Robbie knows he will have an opportunity to go to the playoffs every year with the Yankees. Let’s see how that whole global icon works in the great northwest when that scrub team never makes the postseason.
No reason to offer him anymore than the aforementioned 7/175. That’s over 3 million more per year than they gave Ellsbury, and Cano is 2 years older. Take the money Robbie or go rot in Seattle for a decade. Your choice.
Mark Feinsand: Source: Talks between Robinson Cano and Mariners broke off after Jay Z’s excessive demands. Looks like Cano will NOT sign w/ Seattle.
Geez, more drama, just like A Rod. Does he want to play for the game, for the city? Or is it about his ego and the money?
I don’t recall Wright or Pedroia making such a scene. No room for greedy primadonnas here. It’s unYankee-like.
I sure hope that Jack f’in Z rots in hell someday.
1st he probably costs the Yankees a world Series by backing out of the cliff lee deal, then he sends us broken down Michael Pineda for their best prospect in a decade and now he’s offering Cano a ridiculous contract.
Cashman needs to invite him to repel down that building with him this winter and then push his ass right off the roof.
I haven’t seen this mentioned in the thread above but (caught juicers): Melky, Cervelli, A-Rod… over the past years I’ve read more than one article about these guys working out together in the off season. Birds of a feather / the company you keep?
I don’t know but the career-long contract for a guy that decides to play off vs on the medicine is a scary proposition.
I know a lot of people will want to roast me for this, I have no proof, but I’ve always thought Cano is doing the same as the rest of his buds…I’d say there is at least a 50/50 chance… for those who disagree… never under estimate the power of denial?
Again, if you believe as I do then a career contract reverses the incentive for possibly aided performance. Scary stuff.