Sunday Night Open Thread


The Yankees acquired Brandon McCarthy from the Diamondbacks earlier today, and he will make his first start with the team on Wednesday. McCarthy, in case you’re unfamiliar with him, reinvented himself as a pitcher in 2010 by embracing sabermetrics and PitchFX analysis. He focused on missing bats, limiting walks, and trying to keep the ball on the ground to avoid homers. I recommend this Eno Sarris post and this ESPN The Magazine piece on his career turnaround. “I didn’t want to suck at baseball anymore,” he said. Check the links out. Pretty interesting stuff.

Here is your open thread for the rest of the night. The ESPN Sunday Night Game is the Rays and Tigers (Price vs. Porcello), but before that the All-Star Game rosters will be announced at 7pm ET on ESPN. Yes, ESPN. Not MLB Network. My guess: Derek Jeter (starter at shortstop) and Masahiro Tanaka make it, Dellin Betances and every other Yankee do not. Remember, making it and deserving to make it are two separate things. Talk about any of that stuff and anything else right here.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Deep Thoughts says:


    #CashmanFailed #notreally #tongueincheek #lifetimereplacementlevelplayer

    • Dalek Jeter says:


    • Preston says:

      I think the lesson here is that the White Sox pitching coach is doing something with these guys that others weren’t. Quintana went from High A to good MLB starter in half a season for the White Sox. Noesi was terrible in Safeco one of the friendliest pitching environments in baseball and then got picked up and discarded very quickly by the pitching starved Rangers. If Don Cooper ever hits the market the Yankees better snatch him up.

      • forensic says:

        I haven’t looked at their particular pitch types/values, but it’s long been talked about that he adds a cutter to many of the pitchers they bring in and is an absolute master at getting them to use it well.

      • RetroRob says:

        The Quintana situation was a bit unusual. The Yankees grabbed him off the scrapheap after the Mets originally signed him, pitched for the Mets for a season for them, but then failed a drug test and was suspended for an entire year. The Mets gave him his walking papers (do Mets fans ever discuss Quintana as a failure of management on their side??!) and the Yankees signed him. He spent a couple seasons in the obscurity of the DSL, then came up and pitched in low-A ball, before making it to Tampa. Basically he was 22-years-old, never pitched above A ball, and had a drug suspension on his record. After six years, he was a minor league free agent.

        The White Sox saw something and signed him as a minor league free agent, giving him a better contract than what the Yankees offered. Yet it was a move that went unnoticed by the world. He was never discussed as a prospect here, or by the Yankees, or by talent evaluators. Credit to the White Sox and Don Cooper, who could probably get a ton if he put himself on the market. He seems to be regarded as the best pitching coach around right now, but then gain, the history of the “best pitching coaches” around isn’t a pretty one. When they move from the teams where they make their reputations, they don’t always have the same success. I suspect like many things, it’s an overall organizational approach the extends into the minors.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner says:

          I’m thinking of Leo Mazzone with your comment, but there was also a ton of talk that he was having trouble with communicating with younger pitchers by the time he got to the O’s.

          I forget whether Dave Duncan or Roger Craig went anywhere else afterwards.

          Cooper’s been considered the crème of the crop for a while now. I’m sure there’s something to it.

          We spend way too much time talking about Jose Quintana. Jose Quintana happens one out of a thousand times.

          Also, Wilpon failed, but we knew that already. Everyone knows that.

  2. adjusts batting gloves says:

    I’m glad McCarthy sounds so smart, but wish he could actually throw a changeup instead of talking about it…I’m looking forward to his postgame interview the first time he gives up 5 runs in two innings to the Orioles.

    • Dalek Jeter says:

      “I’m looking forward to his post game interview the first time he gives up 5 runs in two innings.” I mean what kind of fan says that about a pitcher for a team he roots for? As a fan of the Yankees, since Brandon McCarthy is a Yankee I hope he never has to give that post game interview. Will it happen? Yeah, probably, I’m a realist, but I’m certainly not looking forward to it.

      • adjusts batting gloves says:

        Yes, agreed. I’ve caught the RAB negativity bug…I sincerely hope he’s lights out and will be rooting for him to discover the changeup as quickly as possible. As someone who, for instance, practices the art of knowing what I want to do with a ball and fails at it regularly, I read that McCarthy interview with both sympathy and self-loathing.

      • Old Man Time says:

        It’s like some of these guys suffer from some weird form of self-schadenfreude.

  3. Jean says:

    Anyone believe Sori will be traded in time?

    • Dalek Jeter says:

      Probably not, if he’s traded the team that lands him is responsible for the money the Yankees owe him so any team that wants to kick the tires will probably wait till he clears waivers so they only have to pay him the prorated minimum.

      • Preston says:

        If a team was willing to give something for him the Yankees would be willing to pick up the tab. I don’t see any team being that eager to get him though, he’ll probably have more than one FA suitor. But not so many as to create a trade market.

        • Dalek Jeter says:

          Yeah, even if there are multiple teams interested in him I can’t think of any that would be willing to give up a warm body and money for Soriano. I loved Sori when I was a kid and was happy when we reacquired him last year…but he’s absolutely shot and was terrible this season.

          • RetroRob says:

            I had forgotten that any team acquiring him in a trade would requite to pay his contract. The Yankees certainly aren’t going to throw money in to the deal, unless a good prospect was coming back, and a good prospect’s not coming back for Soriano after what he’s shown this year.

            Some team will sign him. I emotionally was giving him some chance of pulling out of his slump since initially it was nothing we haven’t seen before, but eventually it did become something we hadn’t seen before. He never pulled out, and indeed kept getting worse. Is there some validity to his claim and the idea that not playing regularly was impacting him? Sure, but I think it’s very small. He’s not a rookie. This is a man who has been playing the game for a long time, and has faced many situations. Eventually he squares a pitch or two up and takes off. That never happened, and the Yankees gave him plenty of opportunities.

            He’ll still get at least one more chance with some team. Yet the end comes for all.

    • forensic says:

      No way. They’ll just wait to grab him after he clears waivers.

  4. Dalek Jeter says:

    Dalek is bored.

    • forensic says:

      If you’re so bored, then (in a long-term keeper league) would you trade Justin Upton and Addison Russell for Hanley Ramirez and Jay Bruce.

      I’m not a big fan of Bruce, but could probably use some MI production from Hanley (though I’m not really a fan of his either and his injury troubles scare the crap out of me).

      Even though I probably wouldn’t end up keeping Russell for next season, I’m not sure I’m getting enough back for Upton considering the warts of Hanley.

      • Dalek Jeter says:

        I probably wouldn’t. I’m not familiar with how keeper leagues work (like how many players are kept, if you’re forced to keep certain players, ect) But I’ve never been a huge fan of Hanley and even though Upton will probably never live up to his 2011 form Bruce has just been terrible this year.

        • forensic says:

          We have big (I think) 30 man rosters and keep 15 year to year (no requirements on who you choose to keep).

          I don’t think Russell would be able to make my keeper list, especially since he’s probably behind a couple other guys in Chicago as it is now.

          • RetroRob says:

            Russell is quite talented, yet he’s still in AA and he is a bit blocked. I think the Cubs will use that as an opportunity to give him more development time for a season, and even when he comes up, it might not take another season before he hits stride. Russell is in the news now. I saw capitalize on it and move him for something that will help you now.

      • Tanuki Tanaka says:

        Addison Russell is touted by some “Barry Larkin with Power” (quoted by MLBTR and stuff in their article for the trade).

        • WhittakerWalt says:

          Barry Larkin was Barry Larkin with power.

        • forensic says:

          And Matt Wieters is “Mauer with Power”.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner says:

          When will they stop it with stuff like this?

          • Preston says:

            Generally when scouts say things like this, they mean the prospect, not the All-Star/HOF MLB player. But in this case that’s a tough comp. Larkin went to college for two years and didn’t stay in the minors too long. Who knows what kind of power output he would have had as a 19 or 20 yo in A ball.

  5. TheRealGreg says:

    O’s survive 7-6

  6. Deep Thoughts says:

    Also I’m not sure this got enough play



    Verified account ?@JoseCanseco

    I am in Canada and would like to help @justinbieber with his life problems and scrawniness.

    7:00 PM – 19 Jun 2014

    • Farewell Mo says:

      It actually got more play than it deserved.

      A pathetic ex jock clinging to whatever C list celebrity status he has left offering to help a loathesome drug fueled out of control young punk.

      Doesn’t get much worse than that.

    • Preston says:

      He can definitely help him with the scrawniness. Not sure about the life problems.

  7. WhittakerWalt says:

    I’m just bummed that Robbie only struck out 2 guys instead of his customary 3.

  8. Hiroki Kureddarda says:

    Sox are gonna lose and we won’t pick up a game on the Os. McCarthy is an improvement over Nuno and Soriano was dead weight. These moves combined with the Zealous call up prove that the FO is finally willing to change.

    Kelly Johnson needs to be the next one to go. .218 average is worse than Sori. At least Roberts gives you the occasional 4-5 game. Call up Pirela, call up Zolio and let the kids have a chance. Couldn’t do much worse than all these .220 hitters.

  9. Farewell Mo says:

    Good move by Cashman using his most valuable asset, The Yankees deep pockets. Getting rid of Nuno is classic addition by subtraction.

    • Old Man Time says:

      I think NY is only paying $2-3M of McCarthy’s salary, but definitely addition by subtraction.

      • Preston says:

        They’re paying 2 of the 4 million remaining. But they’re also picking up a 1 million bonus that he gets for being traded.

  10. Get Phelps Up says:

    A’s sweep the Blue Jays!!

  11. TheRealGreg says:

    AL Starters

    Jose Bautista
    Mike Trout
    Adam Jones
    Miguel Cabrera
    Robinson Cano
    Josh Donaldson
    Derek Jeter
    Matt Wieters (won’t play)
    Nelson Cruz

  12. Preston says:

    What about Josh Willingham as a trade target? Lot’s of walks and RH power. RF in YS can hide his defense, especially with Ells and Gardner out there. Something like Tyler Austin and Jose Ramirez?

  13. Hiroki Kureddarda says:

    I would have Jeter, Tanaka, Delin and Robertson as Yankee All Stars. Tanaka should start, Delin pitches the 8th and Robertson the 9th in tribute to Mariano. Tanaka starts regardless of whether he pitches on Sunday.

  14. TheRealGreg says:

    NL Starters

    Troy Tulowitzki
    Paul Goldschmidt
    Chase Utley
    Aramis Ramirez
    Andrew McCutchen
    Carlos Gomez
    Yasiel Puig
    Yadier Molina

    • Cuso says:

      So stupid that Molina is starting. Wake up, ballot stuffers. It’s not like this is his last year, too. If Gattis wasn’t hurt, there’d end up be a serious snub among Gattis, LuCroy and Mesoraco.

    • Cuso says:

      And how the hell did people get enough sense to vote Aramis in to keep Wright out, but not Aramis’ teammate LuCroy to keep Molina out?

  15. Jorge Steinbrenner says:

    Big day.

    I’m a fan of the McCarthy/Nuno trade as both a good, old-fashioned “change of scenery” trade AND addition by subtraction with Nuno.

    I believe it was Mike HC who spoke of Nuno being cost-controlled for years on a thread I skimmed through this morning and, while that’s normally a solid point, what good is a cost-controlled guy without a role in which he’s successful at on your team? Seems like someone who’ll just clog up a 40-man spot. Getting him out of the way for a shot at lightning in a bottle with McCarthy is pretty low-risk to me. It still leaves the team in the market for another starter or infielder, if need be. I continue to only think big with long-term pieces, rather than rentals, but they’re still in place for that.

    I really can only feel sad about Soriano. Yes, he should have been DFA’d, but the vitrol directed towards him from some is so misguided. No matter what this year looked like, it doesn’t take away from the player who came up with this franchise, and it doesn’t take away from him practically carrying his team on his back to a playoff run last year. It’s such a sign to me of where someone’s heart truly is as a fan when they call him a “bum” or whatnot.

    Not feeling confident about Greene tomorrow (or Miller…or Billings), but something you’ve got to work it through the wash.

    If anyone hear John Sterling’s “computer nerds” anti-sabremetric rant concerning Jeter during the pre-game today, it just flat-out embarrassed me as a listener. How we thing such anti-intellectualism is charming or cute or whatever is beyond me.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner says:

      someTIMES you work it through the wash…

    • entonces says:

      Nice words on Sori. No reason to heap abuse on the guy.

    • forensic says:

      I agree on the cost-controlled years of Nuno. 5 years of a lot of guys would add up to more than half a year of better guys. I don’t quite see the ‘lightning in a bottle’ potential of McCarthy, but am glad that it’s at least something different that they didn’t give up a lot for and that won’t hurt the future payroll/roster construction.

      • Mike HC says:

        This is basically what I was trying to say.

        • forensic says:

          Sorry, I may not have made my standpoint clear, or we’re all just really mixed up. :-)

          I agree with Jorge, not with what it seems your view was (though I/Jorge could be wrong on how we’re interpreting that). Often, the years of control would matter to me, but in this case I don’t care about it. When the years of control are likely to be terrible, I’ll give that away for a different look, even if the different look may not be much better than what you gave away.

          The bulk, added up production from 5 years of control being higher than half a year of a much better player (just for example, not that McCarthy is that much better) doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad trade-off.

          • Jorge Steinbrenner says:

            Absolutely open to misinterpreting. I read a day’s worth of comments in a few minutes. That just stuck out to me and I wanted to give my two cents. That’s all.

          • Mike HC says:

            I can’t waste any more energy on this 5th starter swap. Honestly, there are no winners in this deal.

            • RetroRob says:

              If the Yankees win one more game with McCarthy than Nuno, and get more innings to save the bullpen, then the Yankees won.

              I’ve turned that low on Nuno since I’ve seen him in the rotation regularly.

    • WhittakerWalt says:

      I misses Sterling’s rant, somehow. Sounds like the usual anti-intellectual old person bullshit. He’s pointless.

      • Jorge Steinbrenner says:

        Something about computer nerds who claim there’s holes in Jeter’s defense not knowing anything and how Ron Gardenhire himself said there’s no one else he’d want to ball hit to for the last out of the World Series.

        My favorite was when he then said that the Yankees made the post-season almost every year he was at short.

        You couldn’t make this stuff up.

        My mother-in-law, who has always been the living embodiment of “target audience for John & Suzyn,” has stopped listening them to this season. They’re losing the age 60 and over grandma demographic.

        • forensic says:

          A ball hit to him? Sure, that’s fine.

          A ball hit a couple feet to either side of him? That’s a different story.

          They really do need to change the radio booth. It’s almost insulting to us as listeners at this point.

    • RetroRob says:

      I don’t really care about a “cost controlled” player if I don’t think he should be part of the long-term plan. I do not think Nuno should be part of the Yankees long-term plan. In fact, somehow turning Nuno, a castoff, into McCarthy for half a season is a good thing.

      For whatever it’s worth, Keith Law thinks the Diamondbacks made a mistake, believing they could have turned him into more than Nuno, a pitcher he thinks is pretty worthless. McCarthy does miss bats, throws a lot of ground balls, can still throw at 94 mph, and definitely has pitched in some bad luck. He can also eat up innings. He is a bit more homer prone this year, but still much less than Nuno.

      It’s an improvement of a win or two, maybe more. That’s nothing to ignore in the AL East now.

  16. Get Phelps Up says:


  17. Tom says:

    Betances got selected to the ASG

  18. entonces says:

    Why in the world is Billings on this team? 5.31 ERA — and that’s in AAA. Hasn’t exactly excelled in his few big league chances either. But the FO is eternally fascinated with guys with major league “experience” — even if it’s entirely negative.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner says:

      He’s a disposable arm for situations in which you just need a fresh body there. There’s guys like him all over baseball.

    • Need Pitching & Hitting says:

      Because he’s somebody who could be thrown to the wolves in a blow out and then DFA’d immediately after.
      He’s not here to serve any role other than that.
      They wanted him for this particular short-term role exactly because he’s a throw away part.

      • Jorge Steinbrenner says:

        Not a bad way to make a living. He’ll probably as much, or more, doing that this year than more than half the readership here.

        If I only I could do that without ever actually having to be able to throw a pitch. I could stand there and look pitcherly.

    • Tanuki Tanaka says:


  19. TheRealGreg says:

    AL Pitchers

    Yu Darvish
    Max Scherzer
    Felix Hernandez
    Masahiro Tanaka
    Jon Lester
    David Price
    Scott Kazmir
    Mark Buerhle
    Sean Doolittle
    Dellin Betances
    Glen Perkins
    Greg Holland

  20. TheRealGreg says:

    NL pitchers

    Johnny Cueto
    Clayton Kershaw
    Zach Greinke
    Madison Bumgarner
    Adam Wainwright
    Tyson Ross
    Jordan Zimmerman
    Julio Teheran
    Craig Kimbrel
    Aroldis Chapman
    Tony Watson
    Pat Neshek

  21. forensic says:

    Expert analysis from Jon Heyman: The Red Sox trading away Jon Lester would throw a monkey wrench into their contract extension negotiations.

    Wow, who’d a thunk it…

    • Jorge Steinbrenner says:

      Everyone who thought up the master plan of trading Robbie at the deadline last year, then re-signing him, disagrees. :)

      • Oy says:

        Yeah, and in hindsight selling at last year’s deadline and dealing Robbie would’ve been smart.

        • Jorge Steinbrenner says:

          A lot of things I didn’t do in life seem like the perfect idea in hindsight. If only hindsight happened in foresight. :)

  22. TheRealGreg says:

    AL reserves

    Jose Abreu
    Victor Martinez
    Yoenis Cespedes
    Edwin Encarnacion
    Jose Altuve
    Derek Norris
    Kurt Suzuki
    Adrian Beltre
    Alexi Ramirez
    Brandon Moss
    Alex Gordon
    Michael Brantley

  23. TheRealGreg says:

    NL Reserves

    Giancarlo Stanton
    Jonathan Lucroy
    Dee Gordon
    Freddie Freeman
    Starlin Castro
    Todd Frazier
    Charlie Blackmon
    Hunter Pence
    Devin Mesoraco
    Daniel Murphy
    Josh Harrison
    Matt Carpenter

  24. TheRealGreg says:

    AL Final Vote

    Dallas Keuchel
    Corey Kluber
    Garrett Richards
    Chris Sale
    Rick Porcello

  25. TheRealGreg says:

    NL Final Vote

    Justin Morneau
    Anthony Rizzo
    Anthony Rendon
    Casey McGehee
    Justin Upton

  26. Man, are the Jays in free-fall or what right now?

    Consider that they play their next three at Anaheim, a 51-36 team that has been unbeatable at home as of late, and then play at Tampa, a team whom they have not won a road series against since April 2007, and, really you gotta begin to wonder if they will even limp into the ASB with a .500 record or better. At 47-43, a 1-5 record would get them to 48-48, but, yikes, ever since that 25-7 stretch, they have cooled off in a big way.

    Losing EE to the DL just makes things worse than they already are.

  27. I really, really hate when the Rays go into one of their annual unbeatable streaks. Around this time last year, they went 22-3 spanning either side of the ASB; they were 41-39 before that and 28-29 after that, but 22-3 in the middle of it.

    Now, the big difference this year is that such a huge streak, even if they were to match it almost entirely (9-2 in last 11, 16-8 in last 24) would only get them back to .500, not well above it. They will cool off eventually, but it’s annoying seeing them and all the blabber about how they aren’t out of it when it’s more a byproduct of a horrible division than anything else, really.

  28. 28 this year says:

    Only Red Sox player in the all star game is Jon Lester. Interesting. Not that anyone else other than maybe Uehara is worth a spot, but interesting that Farrell didn’t try to add a few of his guys for the game. Lester certainly earned a spot.

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