Joba staying in bullpen for now

April 21, 2008 by Joe Pawlikowski 85 Comments

Despite Hank Steinbrenner’s demand that Joba be inserted into the rotation, that move will not happen any time soon. Not that we didn’t know that. His innings cap will keep him in a limited role until at least mid-June, and at latest until the All-Star break. From the GM himself:

“Joba’s staying in the bullpen right now,” The Yankee GM told Newsday in a telephone conversation this morning. “That’s where we’re at. [Putting him in the rotation is] not something that’s going to happen here early on, and [Hank] knows that. We’ve talked about it. I don’t know what set him off.”

I’m fairly certain that the recent performances from Hughes and IPK are what set him off. I can’t blame him one bit. During each of their last outings, I found myself tossing things across the room (pillows, thankfully), and screaming “throw strikes!!!!,” much to the chagrin of my neighbors. It’s frustrating. But it can certainly turn around.

I have faith that the kids will grow into their roles and perform well this season. It’s not like Hughes and IPK are guys with suspect control, and who are now being exploited in the majors. They’re two guys with good control (superb in Kennedy’s case) who just aren’t getting it done. They’re going to have to get back to the basics for a bit. And unfortunately, that could mean a few games where they get bombed. But I’d far rather see that than to see them racking up enormous pitch counts early in games.

Joba to the rotation is going to happen. All signs point to it. We just have to be patient. I know that’s a tall order on the Bronx, but it’s what’s required at this point. I’m very surprised more people didn’t learn that after last season.

Joey

Buster Olney’s opinion on the matter:

If the link doesn’t work then it’s on ESPN
- Joey
  
  lets try again:
  
  http://sports.espn.go.com/broa.....8;n8pe6c=2
deadrody

Moving Joba to the rotation is all fine and good in theory, but why on earth would anyone think Joba would be exempt from the struggles of youth that IPK and Hughes are going through ? Frankly, based on his spring training performances and his comments about how he changes his approach based on starting vs. relieving, I doubt for even a second that he would be any more successful than Kennedy or Hughes. Moving Joba to the rotation is NOT the answer.
- http://yankeesetc.blogspot.com/ Travis G.
  
  you’re right, he probably will struggle at first, but it HAS to be done to eventually make him a full-time starter. he has the highest ceiling on the team, but i agree that that move by itself shouldn’t be seen as some kind of move that will ‘save the season’ or propel the Yanks to the playoffs – that just puts way too much and unfair expectations on him.
  
  but most of all, do you really think he would be worse than Moose?
- steve (different one)
  
  6 ST innings AND some comments? i must admit, that is an overwhelming pile of evidence.
- question mark
  
  moving him to the rotation is the right thing, but it can’t be looked at as “the answer.” the problem with looking for an “answer” right now is that there is no short-term one. we’ve going to swim or sink with who we have now and, if we sink now, we sink now in order to win the swimming gold medal later.
- http://riveraveblues.com Mike A.
  
  You can’t not move him into the rotation because you’re afraid he’ll struggle. If any GM let’s the fear of making a mistake factor into his decisions, he should be fired on the spot.
  
  Of course there’s a chance Joba will struggle in the rotation, and of course there’s a chance the whole starting thing may not work out at all, but you have to try. Moving Joba into the rotation may not be the cure for all the Yankees struggles, but it’s a step in the right direction.
  
  I can’t believe people are against the idea of having a potential #1 starter in the rotation.
  - Tripp
    
    My biggest concern is if you leave him there this year and he gets 80 innings in the bullpen, then you move him to the rotation during the offseason…where does that leave his inning county?
    
    Now his inning count is still 140 innings and you can’t have a pitcher in the starting rotation with that inning count.
  - Yankee1010
    
    There are lot of morons out there these days. Choosing a dominant 8th inning setup guy (or even closer) over a potential #1 starter is just another piece of evidence.
  - mustang
    
    The key word here is “potential “
    - Yankee1010
      
      Folks, it’s not like he didn’t dominate the minors while still hitting 97 in the 7th and 8th innings. Yeah, he’s “potentially” a #1. So was Beckett. So was Verlander. So were a whole bunch of aces. You give them the chance to use 2 80 pitches, a 70 pitch and a 55ish pitch as an ace. Not as a setup man.
- mustang
  
  I totally agree.
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.
  
  Joba might also lose a game now and then as a starter. The world, however, will not end.
  - mustang
    
    Only the season..lol
- mustang
  
  I totally agree with deadrody and Travis G.
  Not Mike A.
  And when and if this doesn’t work the next step for Hank will be to look outside of the Yankees.
  You can bet on that.
  - http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.
    
    Wait. So you agree with two people who disagree with each other but not the third person who disagrees with the first person and agrees with the second? I’m a bit confused as how to that works out.
  - http://yankeesetc.blogspot.com/ Travis G.
    
    thank you for agreeing with me but i feel like Mike A. is also. maybe my point wasn’t clear: Joba MUST be given a chance in the rotation bc he has Roger Clemens type stuff, and it’s too valuable to waste in the pen.
    
    i dont KNOW that he’ll succeed as a starter, but i believe he will.
    
    the transition might not be easy, but the coaches, players, media and fans must understand it’s a means to an end.
Bo

Im still having that problem loggin on here from 8am-12pm

Something about opening a file
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.
  
  Bo: As I’ve asked in other threads, I need more information. I need your operating system and browser. A screenshot of the download pop up would be nice as well. I can’t fix the problem if I don’t know what it is, and I can’t duplicate the problem on my end.
Eric

Obviously, Hughes and Kennedy are extremely young and virtually have no Major League experience aside from brief stints in the bigs last year. For anyone to think they would slot right into the rotation and continue to dominate as they did in the minors would be foolish. I have faith that they’ll turn it around, but there’s one issue that bothers me for the future, and it involves Phil. Is there any reason why he’s not throwing his change or slider more than 3-5 times a game? The Yankees touted him as the next ace, but in my eyes, unless you’re a power pitcher like Randy Johnson who threw 100mph in his prime with just a filthy devastating slider, I don’t see how you can be an ace with only 2 pitches. Are the Yankees just not letting him throw his other pitches? Are his slider and change just not that good right now? It’s been mindboggling to me why Hughes has been relegated to a 2 pitch pitcher. IF anyone has any info on this, please share
- steve (different one)
  
  For anyone to think they would slot right into the rotation and continue to dominate as they did in the minors would be foolish
  
  but i don’t think anyone expected them to DOMINATE.
  
  if they were simply league average this season while getting the experience, the Yankees would be phenominal shape both this year AND going forward.
Jersey

Jay Stark is chatting about this topic right now. The thread is full of idiots (Stark included), including one guy who argues that moving Joba to the rotation would be a “win-now” move. Crikey.

I am glad baseball is not a democracy.
- KW
  
  I agree that chat is retarded – a lot of people spouting off that bullpens win games, but people forget you need starters to get there. Relievers are pitchers who are no good at starting, or are better at relieving – you can make a reliever out of any pitcher. Why waste starters this way?
  - Jersey
    
    It’s a typical problem with ESPN: the grip of conventional wisdom just seems to form this steel wall around which no common sense can enter. The belief that a dominant closer is just as valuable, if not more valuable, than a dominant starter is some of that lunacy. It’s like a parade of people utterly missing the point! I don’t even watch or read ESPN anymore for the most part, and it still annoys me. =)
    
    Another reason to ignore the MSM and go with blogs as the primary source of coverage – bad ideas tend to get called.
    - rbizzler
      
      Stark just posted a bunch of recycled crap and Yankee/Hank hate in that chat. The usual nonsense was spouted (Papelbon comp/who pitches the 8th, etc) and in the end, it just seemed like Stark doesn’t like Hank and thinks that he is still pissed about Santana.
      
      Absolutely nothing groundbreaking occurred in that chat. Although I did enjoy accusing Stark of reading into Hank’s quotes and him actually posting some lame reply.
      - Jersey
        
        I do have to give Stark some credit for his rather insightful and accurate comments at the tail end:
        
        “Then again, what do I know? I’m just another idiot.”
        
        That’s some horse sense.
Tripp

Can’t you just see Cashman rolling his eyes while talking to these guys over the phone.

No we aren’t going to move Joba to the rotation now. No I don’t know what set off one of the Steinbrenners this time. Yes, Joba will be in the rotation at some point. Yada, Yada, Yada…..
Kevin23

I get the distinct impression that someone wanted to see a Yankee story on the front page…one way or another.
- rbizzler
  
  Agreed.
Ivan

I surprise that ESPN would have a chat about this stuff and how much attention this has gotten.

Look you guys now my opinion. Besides, it’s like the media what the kids to fail anyway to just say “I told you so”

Plus, I like how Mike Francesa said today that if you put Joba in the rotation and he gets bomb, “the Aura id gone”.

Hey I hate curt schilling, but if there is one thing that I,ve agreed with, mistic and aura is crap period.
- Mike P
  
  Which ever way you look at it, it’s bullshit. Even if there were such a thing as Aura, don’t you think the Yankees have plenty of that without Chamberlain? Or am I confusing Aura with Ghosts? Or Spirits? Mystique anyone?
  - E-ROC
    
    Goblins? Green Goblins? Gremlins? Ghouls
- http://www.workwithpete.com Pete
  
  FWIW, he could always get his ‘aura’ back by going back into the pen and throwing 100mph. It’s not aura that strikes guys out, it’s velocity and movement.
  
  I suspect Joba would be fine either way, he seems like a really special kid. He’s got the Jeter thing going for him.
  
  Hughes? Not so much.
http://www.magicball.net LBA Prequel

Fruit Loops and Fatso claimed earlier today that we have a decent shot at getting Roy Oswalt via trade, because he’s disgruntled in Houston.

Odds? :p
- http://riveraveblues.com Mike A.
  
  Go look at Oswalt’s numbers, they are actually worse than Mike Mussina’s.
  
  And besides, those two idiots have no idea what they’re talking about.
  - http://www.magicball.net LBA Prequel
    
    I agree, I was just wondering about the idea of Oswalt, since it seemed like it came (pardon the pun) totally out of left field.
    - Tripp
      
      Yeah, I think Houston rode that arm into the ground. Probably be league average for the next few years until he fizzles out.
http://deleted Randy

i personally believe hank should shut the hell up. and i think his impatience is ridiculous. why would you make any public comment about this 20 seasons into the game knowing the media would feed into it? why put more pressure on your younger guys? anyway, my only real issue is that whether joba is in the rotation or not that doesn’t fix the issues with the other guys when they pitch on that given day. they still have a responsibility that they have to fulfill when it is their turn to pitch. joba can’t pitch for everyone. the overall STAFF inconsistency remains an issue with this team. joba may help as a starter or he may not but until two of the three of hughes, ipk and moose improve there are still gonna be considerable issues with the rotation.
http://deleted Randy

i meant to say 20 games into the season. sorry.
Ivan

There is now way the yankees are getting Roy Oswalt. Do they think when they make comments like that?

Adding Oswalt would just kill the yankee plan here. You add Payroll, an older pitcher from the NL to AL who lets face it is declining. A good amount factors will tell you that a trde to Oswalt to the Yanks wouldn’t happen and it might make little sense.

This is why we the yankees, and there are everybody else. We get too much bull crap from the media more than anyone. Can the Yankees for once rely on young pitchers. Can the yankees get do things that almost every club does and not get killed.
- http://www.magicball.net LBA Prequel
  
  They made it sound like it would be a given, as if we’d be doing Houston a favor by taking him off of their hands. He’s 28-29, right? Why would they (the ‘Stros) be so anxious to get rid of him? (not saying that they are)
  - Ivan
    
    actually he’s 30 going on 31 in august.
Kevin23

If you can’t handle the heat, don’t pitch for the Yankees.
mustang

I just don’t understand you guys. Even I have to say that i understand the value of keeping the Big Three around. I may not agree with everything about them, but i understand it.
But you guys are obsess with these 3 three guys. It doesn’t matter what there performance is on the field or if they cost the season.
It’s Big 3 or bust.
You would even look at the otherside.
- xkevinx
  
  Couldn’t agree more. A look at some other “Can’t miss prospects” from Baseball America:
  1998
  1. Ben Grieve, of, Athletics
  2. Paul Konerko, 1b/3b, Dodgers
  3. Adrian Beltre, 3b, Dodgers
  4. Kerry Wood, rhp, Cubs
  5. Aramis Ramirez, 3b, Pirates
  6. Matt White, rhp, Devil Rays
  7. Kris Benson, rhp, Pirates
  8. Travis Lee, 1b, Diamondbacks
  9. Carl Pavano, rhp, Expos
  10. Miguel Tejada, ss, Athletics
  
  1999
  1. J.D. Drew, of, Cardinals
  2. Rick Ankiel, lhp, Cardinals
  3. Eric Chavez, 3b, Athletics
  4. Bruce Chen, lhp, Braves
  5. Brad Penny, rhp, Diamondbacks
  6. Michael Barrett, 3b/c, Expos
  7. Ryan Anderson, lhp, Mariners
  8. Pablo Ozuna, ss, Marlins
  9. Ruben Mateo, of, Rangers
  10. Matt Clement, rhp, Padres
  
  2000
  1. Rick Ankiel, lhp, Cardinals
  2. Pat Burrell, 1b/of, Phillies
  3. Corey Patterson, of, Cubs
  4. Vernon Wells, of, Blue Jays
  5. Nick Johnson, 1b, Yankees
  6. Ruben Mateo, of, Rangers
  7. Sean Burroughs, 3b, Padres
  8. Rafael Furcal, ss, Braves
  9. Ryan Anderson, lhp, Mariners
  10. John Patterson, rhp, Diamondbacks
  
  Thats 10 different starters. Results: One Stud (Penny), Some serviceable pitchers(Benson, Patterson), and some that I have never heard of. Everyone talks like Penny would be the floor on the potential of the so called “big three”. They may be good, but they will not all be studs. We will be lucky if one becomes Brad Penny. That is the reality of projecting young pitching. And I don’t want to hear the “They proved they can do it in the minors” BS. So did everyone else on the list from the Ankiels to the Pavonos, Claments and Andersons. We need to be realistic about what they can become.
  - Tripp
    
    1998-2003 (-1999) Kerry Wood was pretty sick. Wood was also, terribly mismanaged and allowed to throw tons of pitches during his starts.
    - xkevinx
      
      I stand dramatically corrected. It now stands at 2 of 10, so I’m sure Joba, Phil and IPK will all be all stars. I am so embarrassed by my humiliation that I can no longer post on this site.
      - Tripp
        
        Guy, relax. I wasn’t criticizing you. I was merely commenting on how good Wood was over a 5 year span. Chill the F out.
        
        There’s plenty of evidence that young pitching doesn’t pan out. Everyone knows that.
        
        xkevinx
        
        I was kidding. Wood should have been mentioned. The 20+ strikeout game was sick.
      - http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.
        
        Why do we bother then? What’s the point of bringing kids up from the minors if they fizzle out so much, let’s just sign a bunch of proven veterans as free agents. Oh wait … THEY FUCKING TRIED THAT ALREADY!!!
        
        Being realistic about what they can become involves not writing them off as busts after 4 starts just because Ruben Mateo and Ryan Anderson and Ed Yarnall and Matt White and Ben Gieve and Bruce Chen didn’t work out.
        
        xkevinx
        
        Again, I think that Cash did the right thing in keeping them, but they look lost right now. Am I the only one that thinks Phil may have been rushed every time that they announce during a broadcast that he is the youngest pitcher in MLB, and he is getting lit up? I know that we don’t have other options, but I think they were rushed to the big leagues, and getting shelled every time out may well send them in the direction of Chen and not Penny.
        I agree with the long term strategy of keeping the kids, but it isn’t in anyones best interest to have them supposedly learn at the big league level, at least not like this.
        
        mustang
        
        Agree
      - My Pet Goat
        
        Who keeps saying that IPK is going to be a star? Where’d that one come from?
        
        Fine though, trade the big 3. Tell me what you’re bringing back. If its the Santana trade again, were you sold on a combination of Hughes or Wang and then IPK and Melky? I know Melk has some detractors around here, but you’d dump your starting (and productive 23yo) CF and two promising starters (all under the Yanks control for the next 3-6 years at sub-market salaries) for a pitcher that you then have to pay a record setting contract? I thought we’d put that one to bed. How about Joe Blanton? Is he more to your liking? Or a toasted Roy Oswalt? Jon Garland was available last winter. How about Bedard or Harden? Those two certainly are thoroughbreds. Maybe, we should have made them available for Gagne at the deadline last year. He might not have minded the midges. What’s Aaron Small up to these days? Now that was the kind of veteran presence these Yankees need.
        
        If you’re so hot and bothered to find marquee deals into which you can dump the Yankees younger players, why don’t you suggest some potential options that are going to realign the stars for us?
        
        xkevinx
        
        I don’t know what to make of this comment. Every post that I have written has stated that I think Cash did the right thing in NOT trading them. But that is not the same as saying that they are ready for the rotation as they are currently pitching and that they will certainly be stars. I think that keeping them was the right decision with the hope that one of them pans out. (I agree with your statements on the Santana deal, I was more uncomfortable than most of giving up Melky, and one of few Yankees fans that seem to care about the payroll)
        
        (Also- look around this site – plenty of people think IPK will be a solid #2)
        
        http://deleted My Pet Goat
        
        Okay, you want to keep the kids, but give em more seasoning. Are you envisioning a three man rotation? Maybe Mordecai Three-Finger Brown can get dusted off and help us out working on two-to-three days rest.
  - pete
    
    actually, about 80% of those guys have turned out to be well-above average major league players remember we’re talking about our future 2-3-4 starters (we still have wang, remember) if all of them can be well above-average, then that could be a spectacular rotation, especially when you take into account the high-ceiling starters in the low minors like betances and brackman (the twin towers, if you will).
mustang

Might as well change the name of the site to “Big Three or Bust”
You guys talk about the people on the FAN and your doing the same exact thing.
Chris

Why is it that no one can be reasonable about this issue?

The people that want Joba in the pen just point out how dominant he’s been and how they’ll shorten the game to just 7 innings, without being willing to acknowledge that you need a pitcher to pitch the first 6 innings.

The people that want Joba as a starter argue the you always make your best pitchers into starters because 200 innings is better that 70, but won’t admit that he may show a significant dropoff in performance when moving to the rotation and you may actually save more runs over the season if he’s in the bullpen.

Everyone on both sides seems to think they’re obviously right, and get worked up into a frenzy when someone disagrees. Maybe that’s a sign that the decision isn’t as obvious as everyone thinks?
- http://deleted My Pet Goat
  
  You’re wrong about the people that have a hard-on for 200 innings. Even with a drop off in the quality of innings, the sheer volume more than compensates. Beyond that, Joba displayed a similar level of dominance as a starter in the minors. The only player that I can think of that had his promising career as a starter scuttled by his dominance in the bullpen is Papelbon and he has structural issues with his shoulder that demanded a lighter workload. The burden of proof is on people that want him to remain in the the pen. Show us historically, what comparable pitchers you have. Where has this kind of thought born fruit in the MLB? Show me your homework and not your opinion.
Curramba

Are you going to throw pillows and another stuff across the room when Joba struggles? The one thing some people seem to forget is that Joba is more likely than not to struggle when he’s inserted into the rotation which I want to happen but not right now because he does have innings limits. He’s fine in the pen. Everyone just needs to be patient with the kids. I have a feeling they will figure it out and will be fine. The offense is the one that needs to pick it up. In Hughes’ last start they had a chance to score runs for the kid early on and didn’t do sh**t. Hughes pitched okay until his last inning.
mustang

It’s just not Joba. Its the whole thing around the The Big 3. I mean would people cut these guys the same breaks on their performance if they weren’t part of the Big 3 ?
I would love to have Santana, but i understood it was a lot of money and talent. But with the Big 3, especially on this site, its like “they can’t fail”, “they are going to be great”, “send Moose to the pen”, “so what if it cost the season they are the future”.
- Tripp
  
  Having Moose in the rotation won’t cost the season? Will you be saying that at the end of June and Moose is still pitching the way he has been recently? Do you not agree that something needs to be done to solidify the rotation whether it’s Joba or someone else?
- http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.
  
  No one ever said they can’t fail. You’re completely mischaracterizing our position. Our position was that it wasn’t worth giving up Hughes to get Santana. That’s it. We’re quite excited about Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain. They’ve all shown tons of potential. So excuse us for being excited. But Ben, Mike, and I have never said that they are guaranteed ANYTHING.
  
  There are no guarantees in baseball. But there are good decisions and bad decisions. Trading Hughes for Santana, we thought/think/will think, would have been a bad decision. And that he’s had a few bad starts does not change the thinking on that.
  - Jersey
    
    Hear, hear.
- xkevinx
  
  What, you mean like rose colored glasses statements like: “Hughes pitched okay until his last inning.” They lost the game because the last inning. 5ER in 5.1 innings, with 11 baserunners and 1 strikeout is pretty ugly. It only looks good in the context of his previous starts.
  - Curramba
    
    No not rose colored glasses. The fact is that Phil up to that point had only given up one run and ARod’s error did not help the kid at all. That would have been the second out of the inning. Who knows maybe the kid would have gotten out of the inning giving up only one run. Also, the pen didn’t help very much, did it?
    
    btw, I didn’t say he pitched and awesome game, I said he pitched okay which he did.
- http://www.magicball.net LBA Prequel
  
  For me at least, it wasn’t just the Big 3, but Melky and Cano as well. Even though you know I think we need to dump Mussina and Giambi, if we miss the playoffs this year because our young kids struggled, I’d still rather get them valuable experience than continue with the same failed formula that hasn’t gotten us past the ALDS in three years…I’d rather fail with Hughes, Kennedy, and Melky, than with more of the likes of Kevin Brown, Javier Vasquez, and Tony Womack.
mustang

I never like when individuals become bigger than the team. That never works and that is exactly what going on here.
- http://deleted My Pet Goat
  
  Bigger than the team? That’s a terrible argument. What does that even mean?
mustang

Exactly, xkevinx
You guys might not believe this, but I’m hoping these 3 guys work out to be what you want them to be. I would not be a Yankees fan otherwise. However, I can’t ignore what is going on the field or make it look better. It is what it is ?
mustang

Again this nothing personal against you guys. It’s just what I think.
I think you run a excellent site that why I’m on it so much.
Thank you for your reply.
Pingback: River Ave. Blues | Who wants to write for RAB?
Rich

The best antidote would be if the offense could score enough runs to enable the kids to pitch with an early lead. They just need to trust their stuff and pitch with confidence that any mistake won’t cause them to lose the game.
- Curramba
  
  Rich,
  That’s exactly my thinking the O needs to start coming thru when the kids are pitching.
nick blasioli

no matter what happens…this will not remain the same rotation at the end of the season…i guarantee you that a trade or some transaction internally will happen real soon….anyway,,,i hope so….
E-ROC

I guess this always happens when the Yankees have an off-day. LOL.
mustang

Do you guys think that the offense maybe struggling cause of the pitching ?
Yesterday, was great example they got good pitching early and the offense came through towards the later innings.
Might the case be that when these guys know that the kids are pitching they might press a little thinking there going to need more runs.
Just an idea.
Realist

Hughes and Kennedy should just pitch and quit nibbling , make the other team beat you with the bat first….not walks , hitter friendly pitch counts , then the bat ;-)

Go after the hitters and I am sure there will be improvement…..

As for Joba , I never felt he should have gone to the pen to begin with but he is there now and if The Yanks have a plan for him to start later , they should stick to it. Rushing him now could do more harm than good for him and the team?

The offense is a culprit in this as well….Giambi would have been put down by now , if he was a race horse. This guy is done and produces NOTHING at 1st , which is traditionaly a power position. Not to mention he is a huge liability defensively. Damon isn’t too far behind him but he at least is showing some signs of life and can field his position.
- steve (different one)
  
  Damon isn’t playing as poorly as his numbers look.
  
  his IsoD is .127 and his IsoP is .185.
  
  his batting average is low, but his LD% is a healthy 18.9%.
  
  also, he is seeing 4.0 pitches per AB.
  
  once those line drives start falling in and his BA creeps up, he’ll be OK.
  
  also, he is playing decent defense.
- Whitey14
  
  Realist makes a great point “if The Yanks have a plan for him to start later , they should stick to it” Teams that change their plans mid-stream, and cannot decide between youth/free-agents, rebuild/contend, etc. typically are so screwed up that it takes years to undo the damage they’ve done along the way.
  
  Many of you commented during the off season that you’d be okay with them keeping the big three intact with the realization that they may struggle and it may not be a banner year for the yankees, but you’d be okay with that. Now it seems that a 10-10 start, which is much better than last years’s 9-14 start, has shaken some folk’s resolve. I think most folks would agree that potential aces have the ability to learn and develop quickly. It could be that by June these kids have been knocked around a bit, but they’ve been learning throughout the experience and it begins to show as they head into the break.
  I look at what the yankees have for young talent on the way and as a Red Sox fan it concerns me. Even if the yankees went 81-81 this year and finished in third place, you wouldn’t hear a peep out of me because I think the future is holding fantastic things for them. If the trio ends up averaging 45 wins and keeps their ERA under 4.00 as a group, pairing them with wang and another of your young bucks that’s coming along could give your rotaion 75 wins a season. With a good pen, you’ll be in the playoffs every year.
  I don’t say this sarcastically, but you’re not used to having a down season and it’s difficult when it happens (believe me), but there is plenty of time to turn this thing around. Your offense will heat up, the kids will pitch better as the season progresses, joba will join them in the rotation and you’ll be just fine. Even if it doesn’t turn around this season, the experience these kids get at the big level will pay huge dividends. I seem to remember a coupld of guys in Atlanta named Smoltz and Glavine, and a guy that joined them along the way named Maddux, who absolutely sucked their first couple of seasons and they turned out just fine. Your boys will too (damn it all to hell)
Micky#7

Whitey 14, good post! I have been waiting for a good reply to some of the impatient Yankee fans.
Mustang; I feel your pain, it seems that no one understands (most anyhow) what you are getting at. You are right (in my humble opinion) the big three are getting treated as the second coming. They are just young, talented pitchers, trying to feel their way on the greatest team in the world…against some of the best players in baseball. We (as Yankees) have never seen this happen on this size and scale before. Let’s cut them some slack and hope they (all) work out to be good, talented pitchers for years to come. 27/08.
Micky#7

Whitey, good number 14. 27/08.
pete

why do so many people have such a tough time understanding this issue? the whole point of moving him to the bullpen was INNINGS LIMITS. Joba can’t move to the rotation now nor can he stay in the bullpen all year. The yankees bullpen is, for the most part, a young, developing one, with a bunch of good options throughout the minors. There is a high likelihood that by around june, the move of joba will make even more sense, because at least one starter will have proven by then that he can’t do it (ahem, mussina), and chances are there will be quite a few good 7th-8th inning options. Yet even that is merely an added bonus to a necessary function. Lets forget about 2008 for a second, because some people seem convinced that joba should be a reliever his whole career. Lets say in 2009 for example, we still have mussina in the rotation for some reason. Lets say he goes 8-12. The bullpen, however, was great in those 8 wins. Now lets say we have joba in the rotation. The bullpen is not as terrific but it’s somewhere around league average. Lets say joba goes 14-8. the bullpen loses 5 games in the 8th inning (still pretty unlikely). See what i’m saying? I’d rather lose a few games out of the bullpen than 10-15 from mussina.
pete

kevin kernan actually understands the issue:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04.....107595.htm
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