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Posted by: Joseph P. in Pitching. Tagged: Brian Cashman, Hank Steinbrenner, Joba ChamberlainDespite Hank Steinbrenner’s demand that Joba be inserted into the rotation, that move will not happen any time soon. Not that we didn’t know that. His innings cap will keep him in a limited role until at least mid-June, and at latest until the All-Star break. From the GM himself:
“Joba’s staying in the bullpen right now,” The Yankee GM told Newsday in a telephone conversation this morning. “That’s where we’re at. [Putting him in the rotation is] not something that’s going to happen here early on, and [Hank] knows that. We’ve talked about it. I don’t know what set him off.”
I’m fairly certain that the recent performances from Hughes and IPK are what set him off. I can’t blame him one bit. During each of their last outings, I found myself tossing things across the room (pillows, thankfully), and screaming “throw strikes!!!!,” much to the chagrin of my neighbors. It’s frustrating. But it can certainly turn around.
I have faith that the kids will grow into their roles and perform well this season. It’s not like Hughes and IPK are guys with suspect control, and who are now being exploited in the majors. They’re two guys with good control (superb in Kennedy’s case) who just aren’t getting it done. They’re going to have to get back to the basics for a bit. And unfortunately, that could mean a few games where they get bombed. But I’d far rather see that than to see them racking up enormous pitch counts early in games.
Joba to the rotation is going to happen. All signs point to it. We just have to be patient. I know that’s a tall order on the Bronx, but it’s what’s required at this point. I’m very surprised more people didn’t learn that after last season.
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Buster Olney’s opinion on the matter:
If the link doesn’t work then it’s on ESPN
lets try again:
http://sports.espn.go.com/broa.....p;n8pe6c=2
Moving Joba to the rotation is all fine and good in theory, but why on earth would anyone think Joba would be exempt from the struggles of youth that IPK and Hughes are going through ? Frankly, based on his spring training performances and his comments about how he changes his approach based on starting vs. relieving, I doubt for even a second that he would be any more successful than Kennedy or Hughes. Moving Joba to the rotation is NOT the answer.
you’re right, he probably will struggle at first, but it HAS to be done to eventually make him a full-time starter. he has the highest ceiling on the team, but i agree that that move by itself shouldn’t be seen as some kind of move that will ’save the season’ or propel the Yanks to the playoffs - that just puts way too much and unfair expectations on him.
but most of all, do you really think he would be worse than Moose?
6 ST innings AND some comments? i must admit, that is an overwhelming pile of evidence.
moving him to the rotation is the right thing, but it can’t be looked at as “the answer.” the problem with looking for an “answer” right now is that there is no short-term one. we’ve going to swim or sink with who we have now and, if we sink now, we sink now in order to win the swimming gold medal later.
You can’t not move him into the rotation because you’re afraid he’ll struggle. If any GM let’s the fear of making a mistake factor into his decisions, he should be fired on the spot.
Of course there’s a chance Joba will struggle in the rotation, and of course there’s a chance the whole starting thing may not work out at all, but you have to try. Moving Joba into the rotation may not be the cure for all the Yankees struggles, but it’s a step in the right direction.
I can’t believe people are against the idea of having a potential #1 starter in the rotation.
My biggest concern is if you leave him there this year and he gets 80 innings in the bullpen, then you move him to the rotation during the offseason…where does that leave his inning county?
Now his inning count is still 140 innings and you can’t have a pitcher in the starting rotation with that inning count.
There are lot of morons out there these days. Choosing a dominant 8th inning setup guy (or even closer) over a potential #1 starter is just another piece of evidence.
The key word here is “potential “
Folks, it’s not like he didn’t dominate the minors while still hitting 97 in the 7th and 8th innings. Yeah, he’s “potentially” a #1. So was Beckett. So was Verlander. So were a whole bunch of aces. You give them the chance to use 2 80 pitches, a 70 pitch and a 55ish pitch as an ace. Not as a setup man.
I totally agree.
Joba might also lose a game now and then as a starter. The world, however, will not end.
Only the season..lol
I totally agree with deadrody and Travis G.
Not Mike A.
And when and if this doesn’t work the next step for Hank will be to look outside of the Yankees.
You can bet on that.
Wait. So you agree with two people who disagree with each other but not the third person who disagrees with the first person and agrees with the second? I’m a bit confused as how to that works out.
thank you for agreeing with me but i feel like Mike A. is also. maybe my point wasn’t clear: Joba MUST be given a chance in the rotation bc he has Roger Clemens type stuff, and it’s too valuable to waste in the pen.
i dont KNOW that he’ll succeed as a starter, but i believe he will.
the transition might not be easy, but the coaches, players, media and fans must understand it’s a means to an end.
Im still having that problem loggin on here from 8am-12pm
Something about opening a file
Bo: As I’ve asked in other threads, I need more information. I need your operating system and browser. A screenshot of the download pop up would be nice as well. I can’t fix the problem if I don’t know what it is, and I can’t duplicate the problem on my end.
Obviously, Hughes and Kennedy are extremely young and virtually have no Major League experience aside from brief stints in the bigs last year. For anyone to think they would slot right into the rotation and continue to dominate as they did in the minors would be foolish. I have faith that they’ll turn it around, but there’s one issue that bothers me for the future, and it involves Phil. Is there any reason why he’s not throwing his change or slider more than 3-5 times a game? The Yankees touted him as the next ace, but in my eyes, unless you’re a power pitcher like Randy Johnson who threw 100mph in his prime with just a filthy devastating slider, I don’t see how you can be an ace with only 2 pitches. Are the Yankees just not letting him throw his other pitches? Are his slider and change just not that good right now? It’s been mindboggling to me why Hughes has been relegated to a 2 pitch pitcher. IF anyone has any info on this, please share
For anyone to think they would slot right into the rotation and continue to dominate as they did in the minors would be foolish
but i don’t think anyone expected them to DOMINATE.
if they were simply league average this season while getting the experience, the Yankees would be phenominal shape both this year AND going forward.
Jay Stark is chatting about this topic right now. The thread is full of idiots (Stark included), including one guy who argues that moving Joba to the rotation would be a “win-now” move. Crikey.
I am glad baseball is not a democracy.
I agree that chat is retarded - a lot of people spouting off that bullpens win games, but people forget you need starters to get there. Relievers are pitchers who are no good at starting, or are better at relieving - you can make a reliever out of any pitcher. Why waste starters this way?
It’s a typical problem with ESPN: the grip of conventional wisdom just seems to form this steel wall around which no common sense can enter. The belief that a dominant closer is just as valuable, if not more valuable, than a dominant starter is some of that lunacy. It’s like a parade of people utterly missing the point! I don’t even watch or read ESPN anymore for the most part, and it still annoys me. =)
Another reason to ignore the MSM and go with blogs as the primary source of coverage - bad ideas tend to get called.
Stark just posted a bunch of recycled crap and Yankee/Hank hate in that chat. The usual nonsense was spouted (Papelbon comp/who pitches the 8th, etc) and in the end, it just seemed like Stark doesn’t like Hank and thinks that he is still pissed about Santana.
Absolutely nothing groundbreaking occurred in that chat. Although I did enjoy accusing Stark of reading into Hank’s quotes and him actually posting some lame reply.
I do have to give Stark some credit for his rather insightful and accurate comments at the tail end:
“Then again, what do I know? I’m just another idiot.”
That’s some horse sense.
Can’t you just see Cashman rolling his eyes while talking to these guys over the phone.
No we aren’t going to move Joba to the rotation now. No I don’t know what set off one of the Steinbrenners this time. Yes, Joba will be in the rotation at some point. Yada, Yada, Yada…..
I get the distinct impression that someone wanted to see a Yankee story on the front page…one way or another.
Agreed.
I surprise that ESPN would have a chat about this stuff and how much attention this has gotten.
Look you guys now my opinion. Besides, it’s like the media what the kids to fail anyway to just say “I told you so”
Plus, I like how Mike Francesa said today that if you put Joba in the rotation and he gets bomb, “the Aura id gone”.
Hey I hate curt schilling, but if there is one thing that I,ve agreed with, mistic and aura is crap period.
Which ever way you look at it, it’s bullshit. Even if there were such a thing as Aura, don’t you think the Yankees have plenty of that without Chamberlain? Or am I confusing Aura with Ghosts? Or Spirits? Mystique anyone?
Goblins? Green Goblins? Gremlins? Ghouls
FWIW, he could always get his ‘aura’ back by going back into the pen and throwing 100mph. It’s not aura that strikes guys out, it’s velocity and movement.
I suspect Joba would be fine either way, he seems like a really special kid. He’s got the Jeter thing going for him.
Hughes? Not so much.
Fruit Loops and Fatso claimed earlier today that we have a decent shot at getting Roy Oswalt via trade, because he’s disgruntled in Houston.
Odds? :p
Go look at Oswalt’s numbers, they are actually worse than Mike Mussina’s.
And besides, those two idiots have no idea what they’re talking about.
I agree, I was just wondering about the idea of Oswalt, since it seemed like it came (pardon the pun) totally out of left field.
Yeah, I think Houston rode that arm into the ground. Probably be league average for the next few years until he fizzles out.
i personally believe hank should shut the hell up. and i think his impatience is ridiculous. why would you make any public comment about this 20 seasons into the game knowing the media would feed into it? why put more pressure on your younger guys? anyway, my only real issue is that whether joba is in the rotation or not that doesn’t fix the issues with the other guys when they pitch on that given day. they still have a responsibility that they have to fulfill when it is their turn to pitch. joba can’t pitch for everyone. the overall STAFF inconsistency remains an issue with this team. joba may help as a starter or he may not but until two of the three of hughes, ipk and moose improve there are still gonna be considerable issues with the rotation.
i meant to say 20 games into the season. sorry.
There is now way the yankees are getting Roy Oswalt. Do they think when they make comments like that?
Adding Oswalt would just kill the yankee plan here. You add Payroll, an older pitcher from the NL to AL who lets face it is declining. A good amount factors will tell you that a trde to Oswalt to the Yanks wouldn’t happen and it might make little sense.
This is why we the yankees, and there are everybody else. We get too much bull crap from the media more than anyone. Can the Yankees for once rely on young pitchers. Can the yankees get do things that almost every club does and not get killed.
They made it sound like it would be a given, as if we’d be doing Houston a favor by taking him off of their hands. He’s 28-29, right? Why would they (the ‘Stros) be so anxious to get rid of him? (not saying that they are)
actually he’s 30 going on 31 in august.
If you can’t handle the heat, don’t pitch for the Yankees.
I just don’t understand you guys. Even I have to say that i understand the value of keeping the Big Three around. I may not agree with everything about them, but i understand it.
But you guys are obsess with these 3 three guys. It doesn’t matter what there performance is on the field or if they cost the season.
It’s Big 3 or bust.
You would even look at the otherside.
Couldn’t agree more. A look at some other “Can’t miss prospects” from Baseball America:
1998
1. Ben Grieve, of, Athletics
2. Paul Konerko, 1b/3b, Dodgers
3. Adrian Beltre, 3b, Dodgers
4. Kerry Wood, rhp, Cubs
5. Aramis Ramirez, 3b, Pirates
6. Matt White, rhp, Devil Rays
7. Kris Benson, rhp, Pirates
8. Travis Lee, 1b, Diamondbacks
9. Carl Pavano, rhp, Expos
10. Miguel Tejada, ss, Athletics
1999
1. J.D. Drew, of, Cardinals
2. Rick Ankiel, lhp, Cardinals
3. Eric Chavez, 3b, Athletics
4. Bruce Chen, lhp, Braves
5. Brad Penny, rhp, Diamondbacks
6. Michael Barrett, 3b/c, Expos
7. Ryan Anderson, lhp, Mariners
8. Pablo Ozuna, ss, Marlins
9. Ruben Mateo, of, Rangers
10. Matt Clement, rhp, Padres
2000
1. Rick Ankiel, lhp, Cardinals
2. Pat Burrell, 1b/of, Phillies
3. Corey Patterson, of, Cubs
4. Vernon Wells, of, Blue Jays
5. Nick Johnson, 1b, Yankees
6. Ruben Mateo, of, Rangers
7. Sean Burroughs, 3b, Padres
8. Rafael Furcal, ss, Braves
9. Ryan Anderson, lhp, Mariners
10. John Patterson, rhp, Diamondbacks
Thats 10 different starters. Results: One Stud (Penny), Some serviceable pitchers(Benson, Patterson), and some that I have never heard of. Everyone talks like Penny would be the floor on the potential of the so called “big three”. They may be good, but they will not all be studs. We will be lucky if one becomes Brad Penny. That is the reality of projecting young pitching. And I don’t want to hear the “They proved they can do it in the minors” BS. So did everyone else on the list from the Ankiels to the Pavonos, Claments and Andersons. We need to be realistic about what they can become.
1998-2003 (-1999) Kerry Wood was pretty sick. Wood was also, terribly mismanaged and allowed to throw tons of pitches during his starts.
I stand dramatically corrected. It now stands at 2 of 10, so I’m sure Joba, Phil and IPK will all be all stars. I am so embarrassed by my humiliation that I can no longer post on this site.
Guy, relax. I wasn’t criticizing you. I was merely commenting on how good Wood was over a 5 year span. Chill the F out.
There’s plenty of evidence that young pitching doesn’t pan out. Everyone knows that.
I was kidding. Wood should have been mentioned. The 20+ strikeout game was sick.
Why do we bother then? What’s the point of bringing kids up from the minors if they fizzle out so much, let’s just sign a bunch of proven veterans as free agents. Oh wait … THEY FUCKING TRIED THAT ALREADY!!!
Being realistic about what they can become involves not writing them off as busts after 4 starts just because Ruben Mateo and Ryan Anderson and Ed Yarnall and Matt White and Ben Gieve and Bruce Chen didn’t work out.
Again, I think that Cash did the right thing in keeping them, but they look lost right now. Am I the only one that thinks Phil may have been rushed every time that they announce during a broadcast that he is the youngest pitcher in MLB, and he is getting lit up? I know that we don’t have other options, but I think they were rushed to the big leagues, and getting shelled every time out may well send them in the direction of Chen and not Penny.
I agree with the long term strategy of keeping the kids, but it isn’t in anyones best interest to have them supposedly learn at the big league level, at least not like this.
Agree
Who keeps saying that IPK is going to be a star? Where’d that one come from?
Fine though, trade the big 3. Tell me what you’re bringing back. If its the Santana trade again, were you sold on a combination of Hughes or Wang and then IPK and Melky? I know Melk has some detractors around here, but you’d dump your starting (and productive 23yo) CF and two promising starters (all under the Yanks control for the next 3-6 years at sub-market salaries) for a pitcher that you then have to pay a record setting contract? I thought we’d put that one to bed. How about Joe Blanton? Is he more to your liking? Or a toasted Roy Oswalt? Jon Garland was available last winter. How about Bedard or Harden? Those two certainly are thoroughbreds. Maybe, we should have made them available for Gagne at the deadline last year. He might not have minded the midges. What’s Aaron Small up to these days? Now that was the kind of veteran presence these Yankees need.
If you’re so hot and bothered to find marquee deals into which you can dump the Yankees younger players, why don’t you suggest some potential options that are going to realign the stars for us?