Nov
28

Dodgers complicating Yanks’ arbitration decision

By

Updated 10:43 a.m.: Before this week, we all assumed that Andy Pettitte would come back to New York or retire. Last week’s news that Andy and Joe Torre were talking L.A. upset that balance.

Today, in the Paper That Must Not Be Named, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti confirmed on the record that the team has “some” interest in the 36-year-old pitcher. This leaves the Yankees in something of a bind as they have a big decision to make after the weekend.

Monday, you see, is MLB’s arbitration deadline. By the end of the day, the Yanks must decide whether or not to offer arbitration to Andy Pettitte. This is a rather complicated decision, and it could play itself out in a variety of scenarios.

The easiest option — and perhaps the most beneficial to the Yanks — would be to offer arbitration to Andy Pettitte and hope that he heads to Los Angeles. As Mike noted earlier this week, the Yanks would land the 17th slot in the draft and a supplemental pick as well. But because the Dodgers would be giving up a fairly coveted spot, they may not be so keen to sign Pettitte if the Yanks offer arbitration.

Meanwhile, this decision could easily backfire on the Yanks. If they offer arbitration and Pettitte accepts and he doesn’t sign with the Dodgers and he wants to play for only one more year, Pettitte could actually take the Yanks to arbitration. While he, as a veteran free agent, wouldn’t be guaranteed at least 80 percent of his 2008 salary of $16 million, players nearly never receive a lower salary in arbitration. So even if he were to lose, he would still get a payday well above what he could probably receive from the Dodgers or Yankees right now.

Of course, those are two extremes. Pettitte could accept arbitration and renegotiate with the Yankees. If the Yankees don’t offer arbitration, they can still renegotiate with Andy Pettitte, but if he were to sign with Los Angeles, the team would receive no compensatory picks.

This is the decision with which Brian Cashman and the Yankees brain trust must grapple this weekend. They have to decide if they want Pettitte, if they feel Pettitte might actually go to the Dodgers and if the arbitration decision wouldn’t come back to haunt them. It ain’t easy being a GM.

Categories : Analysis
  • JRVJ

    I’m pretty sure this post is wrong, in that teams can offer whatever they want in arbitration to FAs (the 80% rule, AFAIK, applies players who are under team control and thus can’t test the FA waters).

    That being the case, if I’m the Yankees I offer $11 or $12MM in arbitration, and let Pettitte decide what he wants to do.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      The 80% rule does not apply to Pettitte.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        Updated.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    No brainer, offer arbitration. No one has ever had their salary declined in arbitration, so at best Pettitte will end up with the same $16M he made last year. It ouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if Pettitte accepts, even at that price.

    • TurnTwo

      thats what i dont get… the money aspect of this whole thing.

      does he really deserve $16 million next season? no, not really.

      but money should not be the obsticle to deciding the fate of Andy Pettitte… that should be left to his reasonably expected performance levels for 2009.

      if Cashman feels as though Pettitte is the best option on the FA market to give the Yankees the best chance to win every 5 days in 2009, then lock it up.

      if the FA or trade market indicate that he isnt the best choice to do so, then move on.

      but, again, the money shouldnt be the deciding factor here.

      agreed, no brainer to offer arbitration.

      • A.D.

        Pettite > Nothing + Unused 16M

  • http://pinstripealley.com Edwantsacracker

    I don’t really care what Pettitte’s salary is, but obviously the Yankees do. Remember when they went through with an arbitration hearing with Wang for a $600,000 difference.

    I don’t see the Yankees giving up easily here, and I hope that doesn’t push Andy to leaving again.

    • 27 this year

      That 600,000 dollars could be a big difference because then, this year, Wang is going to get another raise. Each year, that difference becomes more and probably a little moer important. However, I think that was a bad idea considering Wang is someone we should consider locking up at a reasonable rate.

    • Ed

      1) Each year in arbitration, your salary is determined partially by the previous year’s salary.. Wang gets 4 arbitration years, so that’s 3 more years effected by this year’s pay.

      2) Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, etc will be coming up for arbitration in the coming years. If any of them end up becoming the pitcher the Yankees hope they will, they’ll start of by saying they deserve more than Wang got.

      3) Wang admitted that the number the Yankees offered was more than he initially was going to ask for. At that point, there’s little harm in asking for too much, so he submitted the highest number he thought he could make a case for.

    • Chris C.

      Is this really what’s it’s come to for Cashman?

      He’s spending his Thanksgiving holiday fretting over what to do about a .500 pitcher with a 4.50 ERA who couldn’t win a single must-win game down the stretch?

      The Yankees can patch their high-level rookies together and have the same season or better than Pettitte just had, so I don’t see why this is such a problem.
      And if they can’t, than the rookies aren’t as good as he thinks.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        I doubt he’s actually worrying too much about it. That was more a rhetorical twist of mine to make the point that he must consider this right now.

        But otherwise, I agree with you. Not so high on Pettitte right now at all.

      • steve (different one)

        And if they can’t, than the rookies aren’t as good as he thinks.

        or they are, you know, rookies.

        even rookies who ARE as good as we think sometimes can’t put up the type of season Pettitte just had.

    • steve (different one)

      I don’t really care what Pettitte’s salary is, but obviously the Yankees do. Remember when they went through with an arbitration hearing with Wang for a $600,000 difference.

      did they win? yes. so, who had the right number?

      i love when people just say “oh, it’s only $600K, just give it to him”, but that’s not really the way it works.

      giving into Wang then sets the bar that much higher for every other first year arbitration eligible starter.

      Wang’s demands were out of line for previous #1 starters in their first year of arbitration, and that is why they won the case.

      • Chris C.

        “i love when people just say “oh, it’s only $600K, just give it to him”, but that’s not really the way it works.”

        With the Yankees, it does kind of work that way. Especially when you consider how much money they’re saving paying a 2-time 19 game winner peanuts, to what they’d spend on that kind of pitcher on the opne market.

        So if Wang “set the bar” for a 19 game winner to get an extra $6oo,ooo k in arbitration, that’s a pretty low bar in comparision wto what lesser pitchers out there are making.

        • steve (different one)

          So if Wang “set the bar” for a 19 game winner to get an extra $6oo,ooo k in arbitration, that’s a pretty low bar in comparision wto what lesser pitchers out there are making.

          no, it isn’t. you aren’t looking at it the right way. the “open market” has nothing to do with it.

          the comparison is not between ALL starting pitchers, it’s only pitchers who are eligible for arbitration for the very first time.

          here are Wang’s comps:

          Beckett, 2005, $2.4M
          Webb, 2006, $2.5M
          Burnett, 2003, $2.5M
          Oswalt, 2004, $3.3M
          Peavy, 2006, $2.5M
          Zambrano, 2006, $3.8M
          Lackey, 2006, $3.3M
          etc.

          Wang asked for $4.6M. the Yankees were right to challenge it.

          that’s just how it works.

          Wang doesn’t deserve more than those guys just because he pitches for the Yankees. Why should Wang get 35% more than Lackey a year later?

          $600K seems like an insignificant amount of money to the Yankees, but there is a process here. Wang isn’t exempt from the same process as any other pitcher just b/c the Yankees throw money around in other ways.

  • 27 this year

    With the idea that you could offer only 10 or 11 mil, Pettite still could counter and then you go a hearing which never ends up well for both sides. What you offer is not what they get, once teh player accepts, he is almost guarenteed to get the same amount of money if he chooses.

  • Simon B.

    Ben, you must be joking. I can’t believe you really are that pessimistic about Pettitte that you think it’s such a risk to offer him arbitration because he “might accept”. I should remind you about another pitcher you were quite pessimistic about at the beginning of the 2008 season.

    There are a lot of indications that Pettitte wasn’t as bad as he showed this past season. Even then, he wasn’t even that bad; he just struggled down the stretch and put up a slightly below league-average ERA. He is a very valuable pitcher to retain, and I hope the Yankees just get him signed already.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      He’s not very valuable. I could see why he might be a little valuable.

      I’m cool on Pettitte for the same reasons I was cool on Mussina last year. He just doesn’t have the stuff right now to pitch as he always has, and he hasn’t shown the ability yet to reinvent himself. It’s possible that Pettitte could pull a Mussina and do so in 2009, but I’m not optimistic. Mussina was always a better and smarter pitcher than Pettitte. Maybe I’ll be wrong, but for $16 million, I don’t think that’s a chance the Yanks are too willing to take.

      • http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/burressDM0402_468x305.jpg Nady Nation

        I really don’t see the logic behind your statement that Pettitte is only a “little valuable.” Right now, the Yankees have 2 pitchers occupying spots in the rotation. One is coming off a major injury, and the other, also coming off injury, can throw a max of 150 innings. Taking Andy out of the picture is taking out a 200 IP lefty workhorse from the rotation, who even in the worst year of his career last year, posted a 4.50 ERA, or 3 ER per 6 innings. I’m not sure how that can be seen as carrying “little value.” Also, your statement that Mussina was always a smarter pitcher than Pettitte is baseless, unless you can show me how that can be quantified.

        • TurnTwo

          but this argument here is more based on past performance and convenience than reasonably expected performance for next season.

          yeah, he ended up around 4.5 at the end of the season, but he was over 5.3 in the second half of the season.

          he had a BAA of over .300 the second half of the season, and a WHIP of over 1.5.

          now, i’m not saying he shouldnt be back at all… but if you are bringing back the second half version of Andy Pettitte, then yeah, he doesnt have much more than a ‘little value.’

          • http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/burressDM0402_468x305.jpg Nady Nation

            That’s fair. But I think it would be foolish to say Andy will be that type of pitcher for the rest of his career, just b/c of one bad half of a season. Is it possible that he’s all but washed up? Sure. But we saw last year what an older, veteran pitcher like Moose was capable of doing after having an even worse season than Andy’s ’08 campaign. By no means am I suggesting that Andy ’09 will equal Moose of ’08, but I think it’s very much within the realm of possibility that he will have a strong, bounceback year, especially with the expectations of him being a back-end starter, as opposed to a number 2.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              But then you don’t give him anything close to $16 million as a back-end starter.

              • http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/burressDM0402_468x305.jpg Nady Nation

                True as well. My bad, wasn’t sure that you were basing his lack of value argument on just the $16 mil.

      • Simon B.

        Pettitte is pretty valuable because he probably has an over 50% chance of giving you above-average numbers over 200 IP when only requiring a 1 year contract. Pitchers like that aren’t so common.

        I’ve actually been a guy whose been open to Burnett or Sheets unlike many around here. But the way the market is going, those two guys might require too much commitment. Pettitte is very low-risk.

        They NEED Pettitte if Sabathia elects not to sign. Just get it done, for god sakes, Cash. They were supposed to have exclusive rights, but this is looking like the ’03-’04 offseason all over again.

      • mustang

        Nady Nation and Simon B. Just about nail very point on the value of Andy very well done.
        I especially like Simon B. pointing to Moose who at end of 2007 looked twice as bad as Andy did this year.

        “Mussina was always a better and smarter pitcher than Pettitte.”
        Smarter what is this based on? College degrees?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Again, I ask: Based upon Mussina’s 2007, would you have given him $16 million? Of course not.

          I say smarter based upon approach and success over the duration of their careers. Mike Mussina has always been a better pitcher than Andy Pettitte. It’s not even close really.

          • mustang

            I understand and agree with your point on the 16 million, but I still think you been underestimating Andy’s value. Forget what he means to the fans and all left-handed starters that throw 200 IP don’t grow on trees. I’m still waiting for the Yankees farm system to produce another one.
            You had a much stronger argument with Moose at the start of this year and look how that turn out.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              I’d actually be willing to bet money that Andy Pettitte’s 2009 season doesn’t come anywhere close to Mike Mussina’s 2008 campaign.

              • mustang

                Maybe not, but is 15 to 17 wins close enough because with the Yankees bullpen on his last year I will take that bet.

            • mustang

              And if CC falls through I like the name of another FA lefty as good as Andy.

              • mustang

                No one answer this yet. WHY ?

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  Being lefthanded doesn’t have that much to do with it. There are several FA options better than Pettitte not named CC, including Lowe and Sheets.

          • mustang

            “Mike Mussina has always been a better pitcher than Andy Pettitte. It’s not even close really.”

            Post season games:
            Mussina- 16 games 7-9 with 3.42 ERA/ 0-2 In the World Series
            Pettitte- 25 games 18-7 with 3.96 / 4-3 in the World Series

            Andy just better when it really counts !!!!

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              Are you kidding me? Tell me you’re joking. Do you know anything about evaluating the game?

              • mustang

                Never said anything about Pettitte being overall better then Mussina.
                But with the game on line in their prime I would take Andy very time.

                Lg Champ Series
                Mussina 2-3 3.34
                Pettitte 7-0 4.12

                “Do you know anything about evaluating the game?”

                Be careful with the prediction you made this past year I could be asking the same thing.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  The fact that Moose’s ERA is nearly a full run lower does nothing for you?

                • steve (different one)

                  TEH WINS!1!!

                • mustang

                  Yes it does, but look at the overall post-season era.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

                  The overall post-season ERA that shows Mussina’s being 0.50 runs per game lower than Andy Pettitte’s? These numbers are not helping your argument.

                • mustang

                  I meant that era’s were closer. But I guess all those Pettitte wins in the post season were Yankees blow outs so you got me on the era.

            • Chris C.

              “Post season games:
              Mussina- 16 games 7-9 with 3.42 ERA/ 0-2 In the World Series
              Pettitte- 25 games 18-7 with 3.96 / 4-3 in the World Series

              Andy just better when it really counts !!!!”

              WOW! You know what you just proved? The
              Yankees should forget about Mussina and Pettitte, and go out and sign El Duque and Jeff Weaver!

              • mustang

                Never said anything about Pettitte being overall better then Mussina.
                But with the game on line in their prime I would take Andy very time.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

                  Really? Every time? Like in 2001 when Andy Pettitte delivered the World Series to the Yankees after a stellar game 6 pitching performance the game after Mike Mussina threw eight incredible innings? Sure, I’m cherry-picking but you’re not making a compelling case for Pettitte at all.

                • steve (different one)

                  i love Pettitte, but without thinking i can name about 5 instances where Pettite completely shit the bed in the postseason:

                  1996 WS, game 1 (made up for it, obviously)
                  1997 ALDS, game 2
                  1998 ALCS, game 3
                  1999 WS, game 3
                  2001 WS, game 6

                  i didn’t even have to look this up.

                • mustang

                  Yes you are cherry-picking because Pettitte post season record speaks for itself.

                  I said I would take Andy.

                • steve (different one)

                  Yes you are cherry-picking because Pettitte post season record speaks for itself.

                  i agree. it speaks for itself.

                  what it says is that Pettitte had some HUGE postseason starts for the Yankees. it also says he had some absolute stinkers thrown in there as well.

                  i don’t really understand how it is “cherry picking” to point out that in 31 postseason starts for the Yankees, he only had quality starts in 18 of them.

                  he had THIRTEEN non-quality postseason starts as a Yankee. that’s 42% of his starts.

                  here are the numbers, i’m not cherry picking anything:

                  http://www.baseball-reference......1&t=p

    • Chris C.

      “Ben, you must be joking. I can’t believe you really are that pessimistic about Pettitte that you think it’s such a risk to offer him arbitration because he “might accept”. I should remind you about another pitcher you were quite pessimistic about at the beginning of the 2008 season.”

      You can’t run a ballclud thinking every pitcher on the extreme downside of their careers are suddenly going to turn into Mike Mussina. That is an EXCEPTION, not a rule. Name the last guy who did what Mike Mussina did?

      “There are a lot of indications that Pettitte wasn’t as bad as he showed this past season.”

      And they are ………?
      Their were alot of indications that Daryl Rasner wasn’t as bad as he showed last season either. Like the fact that he had the same % of quality starts that Pettitte did.

      “Even then, he wasn’t even that bad; he just struggled down the stretch and put up a slightly below league-average ERA.”

      Struggling down the stretch is not a good sign for a guy who is in the latter part of his 30’s. I mean, in August and September, the Yankees went 2-8 in games that he started, and he posted a 5.30 ERA during that crunch time. How can you possibly try to sugarcoat that?

      The bottom line is, the guy is very replacable at this point, and at a much lower cost.

      • Simon B.

        No, see, that’s why I evaluate players, and come up with opinions based on what I find.

        I think the vast, vast, vast majority of fans (even intelligent ones) are often kneejerk and judge players based on the most recent performance, but there’s a lot more to it. Pettitte has a strong chance of rebounding, and he’s a lot more valuable than you seem to think.

        • mustang

          It’s the Stat. monster. Forget all that the guy had to battle with personally
          Or that he was injured or what pitching in the new Yankees stadium on his last year might mean to him and his teammates.
          If the numbers don’t add up then Andy Pettitte is done. I would hope evaluating player is more than just looking at a Stat sheet.

          • steve (different one)

            actually, the stats would say that Pettitte SHOULD bounce back a little.

            his FIP was 3.71. that means he had a little bit of bad luck last year and his defense let him down. he was still missing bats at the same rate he always has.

            some of you guys love to just assign any position you disagree with to “stat guys” and “pie charts”.

            but in some cases, the stat guys actually agree with the “eyes guys”.

            that’s why you can’t just be a “stat guy” or “anti-stat”. you have to look at the facts for EACH individual case and make an informed decision.

            i think Pettitte should be brought back. but i also don’t blame Cashman for not wanting to pay him $16M. he’s worth about $10-12M.

            • mustang

              “that’s why you can’t just be a “stat guy” or “anti-stat”. you have to look at the facts for EACH individual case and make an informed decision.
              I think Pettitte should be brought back. but i also don’t blame Cashman for not wanting to pay him $16M. he’s worth about $10-12M.”

              Agree on both points.

        • Chris C.

          “I think the vast, vast, vast majority of fans (even intelligent ones) are often kneejerk and judge players based on the most recent performance, but there’s a lot more to it.”

          When a guy has a sub-par season and he’s in his late 30’s, it is not “knee-jerk” to believe that his best days are behind him and he is no longer worth 16 mill a year.
          If Pettitte was 28, THEN it would be a knee-jerk decision. Or if Pettitte started out slow, then had a great August September, THEN it would be a knee-jerk decison.
          I know a ton of very intelligent Yankee AND baseball fans who are confused as to why the Yankees may not feel they can replace Andy Pettitte.

          “Pettitte has a strong chance of rebounding…..”

          There’s an even stronger chance that during the course of the season, Pettitte will be called on to testify on behalf of Brian McNamee, in the Clemens vs. McNamee court case that is due to kick off in March. So not only are you asking Pettitte to rebound, but you’re asking him to do so with a possible major personal distraction………an even worse distraction than the one alot of people feel marred his 2008 season.

  • Reggie C.

    Dodgers will probably offer Manny arbitration by Monday’s deadline. They’re not any closer to signing Manny than they were before, and if anything, recent comments from Frank McCourt shows him to be not leaning towards offering Manny a a deal that gets it done. Boras could forget about getting a 4th year from the Dodgers.

    If Manny doesn’t sign with the Dodgers, the draft picks the team gets will lessen the impact of signing Pettitte.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      They will offer Manny arbitration, and part of the trade agreement was that Manny would not accept.

  • christopher

    I have a feeling that petitte would reject arbitration at least if he is the man of character I believe he is. Does he want to play for a team that it seems doesnt want him back?

    another thing to consider is that the yankees arent garunteed a number one pick. if the dodgers fail to sign manny, they may seek another free agent.

    Another note on Manny – If the Angels are using their supposed interest in Sabathia as a negotiating ploy by going after Manny Ramirez who would arguably be more valuable to them then. Is it because Boras represents Boras, or are the Angels genuinely interested in CC. Signing him would most likelt mean that this would be lackey;s last season in Anaheim because he will want a huge raise and having 40-45 million dollars tied up in two pitchers (unless your the yankees)

    Well, here is hoping that Anaheim is indeed bluffing and that Pettite goes out with some dignity rather than hanging on to a team that doesnt want him for 4 or 5 estra million.

    Finally, the arbitration process in baseball absolutly needs to be changed. The fact that no player can get less than 80 percent of their previous salary and I cant remember seeing a player lose an arbitration case. That in itself shows that the system is majorly flawed

    • TurnTwo

      there is a difference in being a man of character and a man who is stupid.

    • Chris C.

      “I have a feeling that petitte would reject arbitration at least if he is the man of character I believe he is.”

      This makes no sense. You lack character if you accept arbitration?

      “Does he want to play for a team that it seems doesnt want him back?”

      Well, if they don’t want him back, why offer him arbitration?
      Oh, I see………it’s okay for the Yankees to offer him arbitration for business reasons, like wanting higher draft picks than they deserve for a mediocre pitcher on the downside of his career. And Pettitte and his agent should turn down the arbitration offer, which means whatever team signs him will now offer him much less money, because they’re already surrendering a very high draft pick.

      Pettitte should do that, to show he has character. Give me a break.

  • pounder

    Andy deserted us once.It’s our turn now to jilt him.Let the rebuilding begin,save a rotation spot for a kid.

    • steve (different one)

      yes, the Yankees should make all of their decisions as if they were a teenage girl who got kicked off their friend’s facebook page.

      intelligent.

    • Ed

      Andy didn’t desert the Yankees. The Yankees refused to offer him a deal until he had an offer from elsewhere, and when they finally did, they offered him a really bad one. The team pretty much forced him out.

      • steve (different one)

        and when they finally did, they offered him a really bad one.

        not true.

        they offered him a much better deal than the one he signed in Houston.

        but i agree with you about the process.

        • Chris C.

          “they offered him a much better deal than the one he signed in Houston.”

          Right….and that’s where Pettitte’s character came in…….he turned it down, because he already gave Drayton McLaine his verbal agreement.

          • steve (different one)

            not disagreeing.

            the Yankees were definitely lukewarm on Andy that offseason.

            just saying the actual offer they made him was not “really bad”.

            it was about $8M more than he accepted from Houston.

    • Chris C.

      Pettitte did not desert the Yankees. Let’s not revise history.

      The Yankees had an exclusive 2-week window to hammer out a deal with him, and they never contacted him once! And during all this time, Steinbrenner was busy in Tampa wining, dining, and outbidding himself for Gary Sheffield.

      Then Pettitte’s hometown team came along and offered him a nice package, which he accepted, having still not heard from the Yankees A MONTH after the season ended.

      It was only then, AFTER he agreed with the Astros, that Cashman came calling, in a “look, we tried but he left” kind of phony scenarion.

      Pettitte was right to bolt at that time.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

        And, of course, he promptly hurt his elbow in his first year in Houston. Imagine if he did that with the Yanks!

        • Chris C.

          ………and unfortunately for Andy’s legacy, that’s where the roids came in.

          How ironic that for years GM’s wanted Clemens’ services because of the impact he had around their other young pitchers. Then it turns out that Clemens was like the older kid standing on the corner of the schoolyard selling pot!

        • YankeeJosh

          Pettitte hurt his elbow at the plate on a check swing in 2004 with the Astros, which is something he wouldn’t have been doing for the Yankees (excluding a handful of interleague games). He also battled through the season with almost no stuff.

          Pettitte is 36, which is still a ways away from 40. He had a great 2007, and by all accounts was pitching hurt in the second half of the 2008 season. I’d certainly bring him back, thogh agree that $16 million is too much.

  • E-ROC

    Offer arbitration; get the picks or the one year deal of $16 million. I think that’s fair for both sides though the Yanks could be overpaying for Pettitte’s services.

  • pat

    kind of sad a playoff team almost had a protected 1st round pick

  • Reggie C.

    Somebody tell me why the 80% rule doesn’t apply to Pettite?

    • pat

      More than 6 yrs service time.

  • xkevin1x

    Offer arbitration. Pettitte would have no trade protection and on a one year deal is very tradable if the Yankees eat a portion (4 mil) of his salary. I still say Pettitte on a one year dear @ $16 is better than Burnett at 4-5 years of 16-18 per year.

    Eating some salary to trade him and get back a prospect is better than getting nothing for him to sign elsewhere.

  • erik

    offer arbitration two picks is always nice and if pettite wants to come back and we give him a little extra money who cares i mean he is a “true yankee”? i don’t think 4 million on this payroll is that much of a difference

  • BG

    You offer arbitration if you want Andy back at about the same salary. If you don’t, don’t offer it. This is not about the draft picks. If you offer Andy arbitration he’s going to accept it. He wants to be a Yankee and he only wants a one year deal so there’s really no reason why he’d turn it down and negotiate on a deal.

    My guess is they offer it and hope his 2nd half performance was an abberation.

  • MikeD

    I disagree. This is one of the easiest choices Cashman will make this off-season, especially with Mussina now retired. If the Yankees think Pettitte’s arm is shot, they should let him walk becasue there’s no circumstance where they’d want him on the team. If they think he’s okay, then they offer him arbitration because it actually DECREASES Pettitte’s value on the open market. The Yankees can then negotiate with Pettitee on a new contract. If they can’t come to an agreement, which is unlikely, he goes to arbitration and the Yankees end up paying him $13 million or so for one season of work.

    There’s always some risk with Pettitte because of his elbow, but it appears he needed nothing more than rest down the stretch last year, something the Yankees couldn’t give him. He was victimized by a horrible defense and a bit of bad luck, which is why he had the highest batting average with balls in play of any starter in the majors, which signals a rebound season in 2009. He has cranked out over 200 IP for the past three seasons. What’s taking the Yankees so longer here?

  • Brian M

    All I have been reading about is how we should bring him back for $12M. 80% of 16 is 12.8M. Are we really going to risk losing him for nothing to avoid an 800K bill? Offer arbitration, if he goes, he goes, if he stays, fine, give him $13M and know there are plenty of guys on the roster overpaid by far more.

  • A.D.

    Just offer him arb, yeah you don’t want to pay him 16M, you’d rather pay 12M or so, but theres no reason to put yourself in a position where you have no pettite, and got no compensation

  • Beau

    Would Andy really feel that slighted if he was offered 13 million? He has to understand the ramifications for offering him too much during a year where they have a bunch of holes to fill. He can’t say that his performance warrants a big payout either. Personally I feel like he still holds enough value to reason with him on a few million less. During the last Pettite saga the Yanks didn’t even communicate with him their intentions for his future. However, I think he would settle for less, assuming the front office makes it seem like his return matters a bit to them. He is a work horse with a lot of big stage experience. Not to mention a valuable lefty starter to mix up a rotation. I say try to limit his pitch count, because he is older and will wear down quicker then he did in his prime. Having a somewhat fresh Andy around playoff time could be very crucial to this teams World Series hopes.

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  • Peter Lacock

    Everyone is forgetting some important facts involving Andy Pettitte. If y’all think about what has transpired involving him and the Yanks in the last 3 months you will realize that the only thing that will happen is he will resign. I’m not going to list the facts but this is as certain as certain can be. The details of the contract are irrelevant but it will likely be for 1 year. All these stories are fiction and it amazes me how every story seems to be taken as gospel by so many. Guess what? Almost every team has ‘some interest’ in the 36-year-old pitcher. He will be a SP for NYY in 2009 and I’d bet, barring injury, he has a good year. 200IP, 15W, 4ERA.

  • Joseph M

    Here we go again! The Yanks have very little choice here, Cashman better get with the program. The rotation minus Andy looks like this, Wang, Joba, ?, ?, ?. CC, AJ, Lowe and whoever else you may want to put in there are nothing more than hopes and dreams.

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1383090075 Brad

    Sign Andy. C’mon Yanks, it’s a one-year deal for a guy that has a fair shot of matching Lowe/Burnett run prevention. If you lose Pettite to LA, then you almost HAVE to sign one of the two. Then it’s ’05 Pavano and Brown-esque rotations all over again. Sign Andy. Sign. Andy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?id=1383090075 Brad

    That is, sign him as long as his elbow isn’t busted with absolutely no hope for contribution next season.

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  • MikeD

    Another additional risk the Yankees are taking here is underestimating the market price for starting pitchers. Ironically, the $16 million they paid Pettitte last year, as well as the $15 million they’re paying Rivera as a closer, has pushed up the cost of pitchers, from the low end to the high end. CC is going to end up getting around $25 million per, which means Burnett and Lowe will go for $17-19 million yearly. It is not reasonable then to assume Pettitte is going to take $10-$12 million when the Gil Meche’s of the world are making that much, and Pettitte just made $16 million. If they can lock him in now at $13 or $14 million, they should leap, because once the major free-agent starters are signed, Pettitte’s price is going up.

  • davi

    this is just like when he left for houston. i remember reading an article somewhere about how clemens and andys family were upset that the yankees didnt offer him enough money and that they were passive in their negotiations. they got all pissy, and andy left for texas. maybe andy feels like they’re not being aggressive enough again and that hes actually worth 16mil. i used to really like andy, he was one of my favorite players. I always thought he had class. I think his ego’s a bit too big these days.

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