Jan
19

No team for corner outfielders

By

While RAB readers are busy predicting Bobby Abreu’s eventual home. the former Yankee is watching his options dwindle. As MLBTR reported earlier this evening, Abreu’s price seems to be too steep for Cincinnati. At this point in the off season, the Reds seemed to be emerging as Abreu’s most likely destination, but with this news, my guess is that we’ll just have to wait for the Manny Ramirez dust to settle before Abreu finds a home for less money than he had hoped.

Categories : Asides, Hot Stove League
  • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

    Sounds like everybody’s waiting for Manny to sign somewhere.

    If Manny only gets 2 years from the Dodgers, then I cant see Abreu or Dunn getting more than 1 year each.

    • Mike Pop

      And if that is the case. Dunn should be a Yankee.

  • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

    The problem is that if everyone waits for Ramirez to sign, they’ll run out of time.

    • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

      You could be right but, I don’t think that will happen. There is a lot of time left before spring training. When things start to roll, it happens fast.

      • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

        Ranger, you remember the Al Haig line when Reagan got shot, right?

        • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

          Oh yes, something like “Don’t worry I’m in control!” Which was a lie, it goes VP, Speaker of the House and on down the line. But one could say he was in a way
          I have a question for you…what does that have to do with anything?

      • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

        Eventually Manny’s gonna realize either his price has to come down or he’s not getting signed.

        • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

          Think you nailed it very well.

        • Mike Pop

          He is going to get at least 40, so he has no reason to be worried.

    • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

      BTW-When Reagan was shot in 81, Al Haig (Sec of State) gave a press conference where he said “I’m in control here”, which became something of a punch line attached to Haig for the rest of his term. That’s what I was talking about.

      It wasn’t really fair, all Haig actually said was that he was the highest ranking member of the cabinet at the White House at the time, VP Bush was elsewhere and Reagan was obviously in the hospital. But he’s remembered most for that line.

      • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

        True but, he was a republican! If he had been a Dem, it would have been reported as a misspeak or we all know what he meant. Look at the guy they want to be Tres. Sec., Income Tax evasion for a Rep., honest mistake for a Dem…know it and live with it.
        I am very slow at typing and etc., so please forgive me not answering your above post as quickly as I should have. My question still stands.

        • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

          he references the last thread

  • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

    It seems as though Manny is the only thing keeping Bobby from a contract, as “The Steve” wrote. I think he will get a multi-year deal (2/3) @ maybe $6 to $10mm per year, I think $6mm would be on the low side…to a team that needs his bat, $6mm is a good price for them.
    Dunn is a little further away, with his contract…maybe $3 to $6mm for 2 to 3 years. Obviously this is all guess work, who really knows!

    • Chris

      I have no idea what kind of contracts they’d get, but Dunn is the better player, so I would assume he’d get a better contract.

  • Mike W.

    If we aren’t going to get in on Manny (which I know it is clear we aren’t), PLEASE trade Nady and sign Dunn.

    • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

      Those two horses have been ridden and put to sleep.

    • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

      For the purpose of simplicity I’d just keep Nady.

      • Mike W.

        Put simplicity aside; who would you rather have in your lineup for a year?

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Dunn. It’s not even close. Nady’s not that good in the outfield, and Dunn is a far superior bat.

          • Mike W.

            I know that Ben. :-)

          • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

            No question. But you have to do the folowing:

            1) Find a team to which the Yankees’ll trade Nady
            2) Agree on the players and make the trade
            3) Get in on the bidding for Dunn, if he’s still on the market
            4) Convince Dunn to come here; he may not want to and he doesn’t have to–he is a free agent
            5) Sign Dunn

            I wouldn’t be opposed, but I just don’t think it’s precisely necessary.

            • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

              Very sound thinking on your part and well written. I think that should answer a lot of questions.

            • Mike W.

              We could do all that. Or we could call his agents and start with #3. We would know the answer pretty quickly on whether we would be in or out (by the parameters they discuss with us)…

              I seriously doubt it would be difficult to find a trading partner for Nady…

              • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

                That’s why he’s already been traded…

                • Mike Pop

                  That is cause there is no reason to trade him. Deals have been ddiscussed obviously but none good enough to justify trading him. Say the Yankees could get Dunn for 1 yr at 6 or even 2 at 12 to 15, you do it. Then you move Nady for any deal that is worth it but you do not have to be overwhelmed in order to trade Nady. You would have to be overwhelmed to deal him if there was no Dunn but since there is. Bada Bing

            • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip

              Not to mention the fact that either Swisher becomes the CF or Matsui/Swisher is relegated to bench duty.

              • Mike Pop

                Nady will be easier to trade then you two are worrying about. We know Cash had has these discussions but he can’t move him now without getting enough in return to justify the risk in moving him. But if we had Dunn, Cash can just move him for a package that would be worth Nady. Which he could probably net.

            • Jay CT

              The list of 5 things needed to make this happen… number 3-5 can all be done in one step really. And number 1 and 2 are kind of similar as they already know what teams are interested. I think you are making it seem MUCH more difficult then it is.

        • Count Zero

          Dunn.

          I have to say that if he really drops to 3x$6MM it’s practically a no-brainer IMO. 29 years old, OBP, short porch — ’nuff said.

    • Artist formerly known as ‘The’ Steve

      Begging just makes you look desperate. It aint happening.

    • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

      Would rather keep Nady.

      • Mike W.

        Care to explain why? What part of Nady’s skill set are you looking at that would want to make you keep Nady as opposed to Dunn?

        • Mike W.

          or, make that, as opposed to trading Nady and signing Dunn to a team friendly contract…

          • http://www.puristbleedspinstripes.com Rebecca-Optimist Prime

            I’m in the camp that guys tend to overperform in a contract year.

            That, and my brother will be fairly depressed if the Yankees trade away a guy named Xavier.

            (Read: I don’t know why, I just feel that way. Dunn’s certainly got a better bat, but I feel better with Nady in the field. If the Yankees were looking for Dunn’s bat they could have just re-signed Abreu).

            • Joe B.

              Except Abreu is significantly older, declining, has a lower OBP and hits half as many HRs as Dunn. I don’t think the two even belong in the same discussion at this point.

              • Mike Pop

                Agreed, they don’t belong together. If you could get a guy like Dunn for less than 10 mill for 1 year, you do it.

            • Jay CT

              ESPN The Magazine did a thing on contract year players last year. They compared all of them over the past 5 years I believe. Then they made a chart as to who performed above the past year, or below. The numbers were not as “blown up” as I would have thought. I always believed in the contract year theory as well, but the numbers don’t seem to agree.

    • Steve O.

      Why won’t the team trading for Nady just sign Abreu or Dunn in the first place?

      • Mike Pop

        They have not done it yet so we don’t know if they would.

        • Steve O.

          What is the logic? What you said didn’t really make much sense Mike, eyes gettin’ a lil’ tired Mike?

          • Mike Pop

            My eyes are getting a bit tired to be honest. But, what I mean to say is; why haven’t they signed Dunn or Abreu yet? Why have teams not been in on these guys yet, is it because they are demanding too much money that teams are not willing to pay? Nady comes at around 6 million right? Would those guys be cheaper than that, I don’t know. But why Dunn has not created more interest is beyond me, Steve.

            • Jay CT

              I have read all this back and forth, and both sides bring up valid points. One thing that is missing though is the fact that Nady is a righty. Many teams are looking for a right handed bat with power.

    • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

      It has nothing to do with skill set. It has to do with…just read the post of Paldo Zevallos @ 10:54 above.

      • Steve O.

        It’s Pablo, but wouldn’t all those steps be moot if they signed Dunn then traded Nady.

        • Mike Pop

          Yes, yes they would be.

        • http://twitter.com/OldRanger Old Ranger

          Except, they would have to move someone off the 40 man first…and likely lose them. Unless they could time the trade and the signing to coincide.

  • Joe B.

    I don’t care if we have to dump Nady for a bag of balls if it means signing Dunn for even 3/24, which appears to be the high end of what he’d be looking at. Find him at-bats this year, slide him over to DH after Matsui leaves. This just makes too much sense.

    Hell, I’d even say lock him up for 5 or 6 years at a lower AAV and higher guaranteed money, if he’ll go for it. 6/40? Take advantage of the economy while we can. We’d even be able to trade him at that price if circumstances changed in a few years, i.e. Montero tearing up AAA and needing the DH spot.

    • Mike Pop

      I am completely with you. The guy plays better D than Abreu so we can have him in the field with decent defense and an extraordinary lineup.

      • Joe B.

        Would we have to stick him in RF, though? I can’t imagine an OF setup with Dunn in YS’s cavernous LF and Damon in CF, even with Swisher in RF. That would be just awful.

        Would the offense that would allow make up for it?

        • Mike Pop

          I would just put him in Right. Swish can man left, can’t he?

          I wouldn’t lock him up for 6 years but I would do 3 easy especially if it could be for 10 or less a year.

          • Mike Pop

            My fear is that his price will drop so much and the Red Sox will sweep in and get him just because the price justifies the move.

  • Bonos

    Fantasy Baseball Lemmings.

    Nady was at 3.7 value win last year and Dunn was 1.8. At RF Dunn
    was something over -70 UZr. I’m not trying to convince anybody but you are wrong. It’s amazing, everyone is into Fangraphs, until they’re not. Selective stats. It’s like a Baptist church in here. ” Testify”

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Talk about selective stats. You’re going on numbers based on one season. That’s a prime example of the problem against which you are sarcastically railing.

      Now, I’m not saying that you’re wrong or right, but which player has a track record of being good and which player had a career year in 2008?

  • Bonos

    As I say I’m not trying to convince anybody. You could also say that Nady was developing. It comes down to “Oh boy, another walk for Dunn, stranded a runner but his OBP is soaring”. Sounds silly, doesn’t it. Baseball is all about challenges and situations and a walk means you passed the torch to the next guy, who by definition is not as good. By doing nothing you’ve multiplied the failure factor. As to defense I yelled at Abreu a lot. How did Tampa win the penant? The simplistic answer is pitching. But their most dramatic improvement was defense which goes together with good pitching. How good is Wang with average defense?

    • Jack
      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        Just wait until a few hours from now when I load up the RAB upgrade. It’ll be even harder to miss the “reply” button.

    • Mike Pop

      19 wins good with a 3.7 ERA

    • Rob in CT

      “Baseball is all about challenges and situations and a walk means you passed the torch to the next guy, who by definition is not as good”

      Walks are good. Baserunners good, outs bad. A hit > a walk, but if the pitcher isn’t gonna throw strikes, why do you want your hitter to hack at stuff out of the zone (and get himself out)? Besides, now the next guy up is facing a pitcher who has thrown extra pitches and may be frustrated.

      Also, how is the next guy “by definition” not as good? What if the next guy is Alex Rodriguez or Mark Teixiera? Oy. Anyway, Dunn is an excellent hitter. Nady is ok with the bat, nothing more.

      I agree with the rest of your argument. Defense is important, and I think Dunn is a terrible defender (whereas Nady is averagish).

  • Bonos

    To put a point on it. The Market decides the value. No bidding war for Dunn last year and this year. Damon, Gardner and Swisher give you a quality defense. Yes, Gardner might bomb but you give him a chance. Swisher out of position Damon and Dunn – it is to weep.

  • Steve B

    This goes a long ways towards explaining why Swisher and Nady aren’t drawing much in the way of offers. In an already flooded market, no team needs to part with a legit prospect to get what these guys can give.

  • ortforshort

    I like Abreu better than any of the current Yankees outfielders. The Yankees will miss him out of the three hole as there are no worthy replacements (I like Teixeira batting fifth). I hold out a slim hope that the Yankees can dump either Swisher or Matsui and sign Abreu.

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