Sherman: In ALCS, Gaudin starts with Joba in the pen

NLDS Game Two Thread: Cardinals @ Dodgers
ALDS Game One Thread: Red Sox @ Angels

Joel Sherman of The Post is reporting news out of Yankee camp I had feared would come. If the Yankees reach the ALCS, they will probably ask Chad Gaudin to start Game 4 while leaving Joba Chamberlain in the bullpen. Writes Sherman:

The Yankees would not finalize plans unless they beat Minnesota. But in informal planning sessions there is a growing consensus to keep Chamberlain in the pen throughout the playoffs.

That reflects how precious each win is in the postseason, and that Chamberlain could be used in nearly every winnable game as part of a late-game lockdown trio with Phil Hughes and Mariano Rivera. But it also has to do with the Yankees’ internal belief that Gaudin outperformed Chamberlain as a starter down the stretch…If the Yankees and Red Sox met in the ALCS, the Yankees might reconsider. But even under that scenario the sentiment is to start Gaudin.

The Yankees want Chamberlain available to impact multiple games as a reliever rather than be a questionable starter for one game. Even if Gaudin were to have a short start, the Yankees have Alfredo Aceves and possibly even Chamberlain to eat up innings in long relief.

When Chamberlain appeared in last night’s game in his old 8th inning role and Joe Girardi used him for two pitches to get one out, I said to myself that Joba would not be leaving the pen. As long as he gets outs and throws strikes, the Yankees will be seduced by his mentality out of the bullpen, and as Sherman notes, the pen can take on added importance in a short series.

I would prefer to see Joba Chamberlain start in the ALCS. It’s part of his development as a starter, and he’s slated to go just one game. I also fear that he this move may reignite the debate over Joba’s proper role. If he has a lockdown post-season, the fans, those that cover the team and even some of the players and coaches may very well clamor for a misguided return to the pen for the Yanks’ young arm.

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  • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0awG8jw7Ax5xR/610x.jpg Drew

    Oh boy.

    Gaudin vs. Boston or LAAAA of the Baja Peninsula scares the shit out of me.

  • james

    i dont even want a 4th starter in the ALCS. Start CC on 3 days rest. Make him earn that paycheck

    • Tom Zig

      Nope. Bad idea.

      • Tom Zig

        unless it is a must win of course

  • Willy

    Joba and Phil for the 8th inning!!! Next year we use Joba/Phil/IPK for a third each!

    • rbizzler

      Saves for the Big Three! Okay, in reality, ‘holds’ for the Big Three, but it just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

  • Dela G

    this debate thing is dumb. No one person’s opinion really matters since the yankees are grooming him to be a starter. They’ve said it a zillion times and will do their best to guide him along.

  • TheZack

    Yeah, I mean, who needs to win game 4 when you can shorten all the other games to 5 innings! Except that all three of those starters should be good for at least 6. Hmmm…

    But let the media and fans say whatever they want. Joba will be a starter next year no matter what he does this postseason, they simply need him to start #s wise if nothing else.

    I just hope Girardi doesn’t start getting seduced by Joba and throwing him out there in super high leverage innings assuming he’s somehow magically a different person now.

  • yankeegirl49

    Please not another winter of this debate!

    • Zack

      how about another 10 years? because everytime he has a bad start you’ll see the “see he would have been better in the bullpen” on wfan, espn, etc.

    • JMK aka The Overshare

      It’s already gaining speed. Prepare yourself for Hugheswharrgarbl, too, this off-season. Hell, even IPK (did you see him in his like 2 innings of bullpen work?!).

      • Lanny

        We should all be thrilled to have this debate every season. That means the young pitchers are successful.

  • wilcymoore

    Ben,

    All year long I’ve believed that Joba and Philip Hughes should be nurtured as Yankee starters of the future. I disagreed with those who kept insisting that Joba should be a reliever (e.g., Mike Francesca).

    Well … I’ve changed my mind. For whatever reason, Joba Chamberlain seems better suited for the ‘pen. Phil Hughes has to return to starting next year. He’ll do well as a starting pitcher, and the Yanks need at least one of their “big three” youngster (Joba, Hughes, IPK) to slot into the rotation.

    But I’ve reluctantly come to the conclusion that Joba’s place is in the bullpen. That’s for this post-season and probably the future also.

    • Zack

      this is yankee fan “patience” at its finest

    • Spaceman.Spiff

      Why are you so sure Hughes will “do well” as a starter next year? I say we both keep Joba and Hughes as starters for next year until there’s no reasonable reason to believe that they can start.

    • ClayBuchholzLovesLaptops

      -1

    • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0awG8jw7Ax5xR/610x.jpg Drew

      What’s your opinion on David Price?

      Patience is a virtue, dude.

      • Lanny

        Maybe Joba prefers being a reliever. He obviously pitches better in that role.

        • pete

          …everyone pitches better in that role

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

    I don’t think this is much of a big deal. In fact I would have done the same exact thing. It’s not just an “internal belief” that Gaudin outperformed Joba down the stretch, it’s pure fact.

    Does this mean Joba will be a reliever long term? Obviously not. I think it’s pretty clear where they feel he belongs.

    • JMK aka The Overshare

      THIS.

    • Amy

      What he said.

    • Tank the Frank

      My thoughts exactly. Gaudin definitely earned a start. It’s a luxury that we have two young, power arms that can perform both out of the pen and in the rotation, and I have no problem seeing Joba used in multiple games out of the pen this postseason. The Yankees have stated from DAY ONE that they view Joba as a starting pitcher. They have realized the value of young starting pitching under team control. I fully expect both Hughes and Joba to make an impact in the rotation next year.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

      +1

      and to add to that, it’s not who’s a better pitcher, it’s about who’s a better pitcher right now. That’s a key distinction.

      • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

        like the yankee survey we take every week…some people see tex and hughes and scream “eleventy!!!” and some people think about Arod still under contract during his julio franco years, setting a record for every day he takes BP…

        today: all hands on deck.
        next year: back to future development.

    • http://anewfrontier.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

      I think you hit the nail on the head

    • Jersey

      Exactly.

    • YankeeJosh

      I agree with Mike 100%. And if Wang hadn’t gone down, I think the Yankees would have put Joba in the pen in September. As is, he’s at his innings cap. No need to push him, let him work out of the pen in the playoffs. But if this spurs on Joba in the pen in 2010 then we have a problem.

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

    “I would prefer to see Joba Chamberlain start in the ALCS. It’s part of his development as a starter, and he’s slated to go just one game.”

    Ben, the ALCS is not the time to ‘develop’ anyone. We had 6 months to do that, now it’s all about winning every game and nothing else.

    • Upstate Nick

      Agreed. We just need to win, and the second half showed that we have a better chance at that with Gaudin on the mound and Joba/Robertson/Hughes/Mo waiting in the pen. Sure, Gaudin was never lights out, but he always gave us a chance to win, and we were 6-0 in games he started.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

        I jumped all over fans all year who wanted to treat games in April like they were ALCS game 7, but now you have to shift gears and manage differently than you would in the regular season. There’s simply much more urgency to win each game.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siYKRL4I3UA JobaWockeeZ

        Sure, Gaudin was never lights out, but he always gave us a chance to win, and we were 6-0 in games he started.
        And the Yankees are 20-11 in starts that Joba started.

        • http://kyivpost.img.com.ua/img/forall/a/355/5.jpg Rose

          Yeah, the majority of those wins being when his innings pitched was much lower

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siYKRL4I3UA JobaWockeeZ

            11 wins by the Yankees in Joba’s starts before all star break.
            9 wins by the Yankees in Joba’s starts after the all star break.

            • http://kyivpost.img.com.ua/img/forall/a/355/5.jpg Rose

              I understand. How many in mid-late August and September/October though? Since August 6th he’s pitched over 5 innings once and over 4 innings 3 times. He also only has only 1 of those wins during this time.

              • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

                Yeah, the team may have won but he can’t claim much credit for it by pitching 3 or 4 innings. If anything, that tells you how good our bullpen was over that time span.

                • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siYKRL4I3UA JobaWockeeZ

                  Guadin isn’t much better with his average start barely under 5 IP per game.

                • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

                  True, but the other 3 starters we have are all horses, so for one game we’ll have to live w/it. We have a very deep and very good bullpen right now.

                  It’s not like we could have expected to get 7-8 IP out of Joba, either.

                • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siYKRL4I3UA JobaWockeeZ

                  Well yeah. But Guadin isn’t exactly loads better than Joba too. But I don’t know, I’ll be fine with either. As you said the bullpen is great and with the offense of the Yanks it probably won’t matter who starts.

                • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

                  hot hand syndrome/philosophy…i’m not sweating either. hughes can go two, aceves can go three, joba can go one, coke/marte/robertson can go one, mo can go one…damn, dude only has to pitch one inning for pete’s sake…

              • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siYKRL4I3UA JobaWockeeZ

                Since August the Yanks won 6 of the games which he started.

                Honestly I don’t particularly care whether it is Joba or Guadin starting though I want Chamberlain so yeah. As long as either gives a chance for the Yanks to win it.

                • http://kyivpost.img.com.ua/img/forall/a/355/5.jpg Rose

                  Exactly. And with our offense…if we get a decent outing out of either of them…we will win. We just faced the Twins 4th starter and mopped the floor with him and their bullpen…he he

            • no.27

              The Yankees won 16 of Joba’s first 22 starts. They lost 5 of his last 9 starts when they started messing with extra rest and innings limits.

              Not that Team Wins is a stat that means much when you are talking about how effective a pitcher is.

      • BklynJT

        Ding ding ding ding… I think we have a winner.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Yeah, definitely. Joba already stayed healthy and got his full season of development. Now it’s about winning, pretty much at all costs too.

      • vin

        +27

        • Lanny

          You dont develop youngsters in Oct.

          • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

            Ax+Lanny agree?

            /headexplode’d

            • steve (different one)

              he only agreed b/c it means disagreeing with Ben

  • http://kyivpost.img.com.ua/img/forall/a/355/5.jpg Rose

    I see no problem with Gaudin as the 4th starter…calling Joba’s start “only one start” the same can be said about Gaudin starting that day instead. Joba has been incredibly inconsistent anywhere from great to horrible while Gaudin has been consistently mediocre…Joba already has a lot of innings under his belt…and their decision doesn’t reflect any long term decision…it just may be the best option for this particular situation.

  • Greg G.

    In addition to agreeing with Mike A. and The Artist above, I want to add:

    “I also fear that he this move may reignite the debate over Joba’s proper role. If he has a lockdown post-season, the fans, those that cover the team and even some of the players and coaches may very well clamor for a misguided return to the pen for the Yanks’ young arm.”

    I don’t think this should factor in the decision at all. They have stated on multiple occasions that they have a long-term plan for Joba. You can’t make the decision of Gaudin vs. Joba based on what the press or fans (or even coaches and players), may or may not debate down the road.

    This is the very definition of a “Win Now” call, and the bottom line is that Gaudin has pitched better than Joba of late.

    • http://kyivpost.img.com.ua/img/forall/a/355/5.jpg Rose

      Agreed.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

      The Yanks aren’t the Mets, they don’t let talk show hosts make their roster decisions.

      • Lanny

        When has Cashman ever deviated from his plan?

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

    Another thing worth noting here is Girardi has made it clear Joba is available for multi-inning stints. So while I was kidding the other day about the ‘5 inning game’ with Joba in the pen, Girardi won’t be afraid to use him if Guadin tires in the 4th or 5th. Though I suspect Aceves would get the call before Joba does.

  • TheLastClown

    I like it.

    There’s no reason that this decision should re-ignite this “debate.”

    Joba’s up & over his innings limit, and he just hasn’t been consistently effective as a starter of late. I don’t think that the playoffs should be treated as “part of his development.”

    Personally, I think players develop so that they can serve the most effective role in the playoffs, to help their team win the WS. So, I think Joba must be used as the weapon he is right now, not as the weapon we think he will be next season and beyond.

    I don’t much like the prospect of Gaudin vs. BOS/LAA, but if he can be serviceable, he will be backed up by Aceves/Joba/Hughes/Mo.

    For me, this is just a fatigue issue. Joba had a full big league healthy season, and should be expected to fatigue. Now, why ask him to overextend himself when the results are the most crucial?

    We’ll be seeing plenty of Joba Chamberlain playoff starts, but I’m good if we don’t see one in ’09.

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

    Managers always have a ‘pecking order’ with relievers, and I suspect Girardi’s is this:

    Aceves/Robertson
    Joba
    Hughes
    Mo

    with Coke and Marte available as loogys wherever needed. This way each guy is backed up by somebody you trust a bit more and you finish the game with power arms.

    • Greg G.

      For a second there I thought you were listing them in order of most preferable to least….and then I saw Mo at the bottom…

      • Salty Buggah

        Mo carries the pen

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

        No, if you want to use innings it’s

        6th Aceves/Robertson
        7th Joba
        8th Hughes
        9th Mo

        But people get so hung up on those inning tags, I try to avoid them.

        • Greg G.

          Sorry…was trying to be funny, and I think I blew it.

          • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

            You’re the George Lopez of RAB.

        • Lanny

          You can’t use innings when you have to insert 2 lefty’s in.

        • pete

          in essence, yeah, though i think they’re roles are more defined on their strengths than particular innings, apart from hughes and mo, who seem pretty set in their roles. Other than those two, I would say:
          Ace: early KO of starter, 6th/7th/8th inning w/ a comfortable lead
          Joba: Big pre-8th spot vs. righty, full inning if necessary
          K-Rob: Big pre-8th K-specialist, most likely one or two outs
          Coke: one/two lefties w/ pronounced splits
          Marte: see Coke, or an inning w/ a comfortable lead, if necessary

          it’s not necessarily which inning as much as which type of pitcher a situation calls for

  • Salty Buggah

    Gaudin’s FIP for the Yanks was only .01 points lower than Mitre’s. His tRA was .31 points higher than Mitre’s. Dude’s not that good.

    • TheLastClown

      But who’s 4th starter is “that good?”

      • Salty Buggah

        My point is that if you want to play Gaudin, you might as well play Joba, or for that matter, Mitre because Gaudin’s mostly lucky and I dont want him to regress to the mean in Game 4.

        • RichYF

          I like Gaudin, but I agree. Joba is a better pitcher with a much higher ceiling. When he sucks, he’s Mitre. When he’s good, he’s (not putting a name down). Joba is a power pitcher with the potential to ride an adrenaline rush to an amazing start. I’ll take potential over a floor any day of the week.

        • TheLastClown

          Well, if the upgrade from Joba to Gaudin is marginal *as it seems to have been in the last weeks of the season* then you have to think of the upgrade of Joba vs. Gaudin in the pen.

          Gaudin is what he is. He’ll give it to you from the pen or starting the game.

          Joba however, has showed marked improvement in stuff and command as he’s slotted into a smaller pen role.

          Thus Joba starter > Gaudin starter, but Joba reliever >>>>>> Gaudin reliever.

          You only need 4-5 decent innings out of Gaudin anyway.

          • RichYF

            I agree with the concept, but do you really think the Yanks will get “4-5 decent innings” out of Gaudin in the ALCS?

            I really like the guy, and I think he’s been a huge pick up, but let’s be honest with ourselves: he’s a scrap-heap player that’s playing wayyyyy over his head right now. He has the potential to continue the “Aaron Small/Shawn Chacon” magic, but the reality is that Joba deals (especially vs. the Sox). He has the ability to perform to the level of the competition.

            Gaudin has a ceiling. It’s not awful, but it’s not high. He can show up and give you a decent start (5ip, 3er), but I think Joba can easily do the same. He can also spin a gem. The bullpen is deep, and a GOOD start will negate the need for a 6th and 7th inning guy.

          • Salty Buggah

            “Joba however, has showed marked improvement in stuff and command as he’s slotted into a smaller pen role.”

            Ummm, no he hasn’t. In those 4 ABs, you can tell? He was hitting only 95, not 99 or 100, and he can hit 95 as a starter too. And he’s faced lesser batters too.

            • no.27

              Joba has been as successful as he possibly could have been in all of his relief appearances so far. I think Girardi has done a good job putting him in situations where he can be successful in order to build up his confidence in that role.

              Hitting 99 or 100 on the gun isn’t necessary. As long as Joba believes he can get outs throwing his fastball for strikes, which he always has out of the bullpen, he will be very good.

              Yesterday was a perfect example of Joba being better than Gaudin as a reliever. Gaudin in the bullpen is only there as a mop up guy. Joba can come in for 1 batter, 1 inning, or several innings.

    • Salty Buggah

      Joba’s FIP is half a run lower and his tRA is nearly .80 points lower than Gaudin’s even with all of his struggles.

  • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

    BTW-For anyone who was freaking out last night about Coke warming up, Girardi said on WFAN today that Coke was warming up for KUBEL, not Mauer or Cuddyer. Those guys were Hughes’ batters.

  • gargoyle

    The notion that a game started by Gaudin is a guaranteed “L” is poppycock.

    The question is how can Joba best help this team in the next 3 weeks? The answer is out of the bullpen.

    • Salty Buggah

      I dont think anyone thinks Gaudin is a automatic loss and I dont even want him starting.

  • mustang

    “It’s part of his development as a starter, ”

    For the thousand time Joba plays for the Yankees not the other way around. The object now is to win 11 playoff games and if Joba’s development has to take a back seat to that then oh well.

    Please is damn playoff his development are you kidding me.

  • JGS

    “It’ll be interesting to see where this will leave Chamberlain come 2010. The pitcher Red Sox fans love to hate may be no better than a set-up man after all.”

    -Pete Abe, on his new blog

    hasn’t he been very anti-B-Jobber all year?

    • Greg G.

      Panderer

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

      Nice to see Chad getting his feet wet over at LoHud. Looking forward to seeing his work.

  • RichYF

    Assuming Joba is “lockdown” out of the pen, isn’t that a good thing for the team? I understand what the mediots might say/think, but if Joba has the same success he once had out of the pen, coupled with Phil’s success in his new role (not mention Robertson and obviously Mo), the Yankees will have a pitching staff unmatched by any opponent.

    I’m not saying I want Joba in the pen (I don’t), but as long as he pitches well in WHATEVER role he has, the team benefits tremendously. If he is in the bullpen as a “mop-up” role as Mike stated earlier today (5th guy out of the pen), that’s not really helpful. If he’s dealing that just means the Yanks have the best bullpen in baseball. And it’s not close.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

      Yeah, and he can affect more games this way. Which is huge at this time of year.

  • Andrew

    I understand the whole notion of trying to win now at any reasonable cost, but this decision is kind of stupid. I agree with Ben on this one, Cashman and the FO are foolishly reigniting this discussion for the mainstream media. My other concern is what is the yankees’ future plan with Chamberlain now? Are they sticking with the possibility that Chamberlain could develop into a frontline starter, or have they given up on Chamberlain based on this season? I would hope that the FO has not given up on Chamberlain based on his first full season as a starter.

    My other concern is the alternative to Chamberlain. Gaudin is not a great option. The man CANNOT get out lefties. If there was a better option, then I would probably have no beef with the decision. Overall, just a bad move, if the yankees do move on to the alcs.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

      If the Yanks win #27, the media can say whatever it wants and I won’t care one bit. I’ll be too busy drowning in champagne and screaming my lungs out at the parade.

      • Zack

        +1

      • mustang

        Thank you. So agree.

      • thurdonpaul

        ill join you at the parade

        • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

          Look for me, I’ll be the guy who’s drunk and screaming his head off. You should be able to spot me easily.

    • AndrewYF

      “Cashman and the FO are foolishly reigniting this discussion for the mainstream media.”

      Any GM who operates with the mainstream media at the forefront of his mind is doing a terrible job.

      They haven’t given up on Chamberlain as a starter. Absolutely nothing they have done suggests that.

      • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

        “Any GM who operates with the mainstream media at the forefront of his mind is doing a terrible job.”

        . . . or is employed by the Mets.

  • Reggie C.

    If Gaudin can pitch his game , then he’s good for 5 innings. If the bats do their job against the RS/Angels’s staff … we’re gonna have a lead or at least be tied up.

    Following up Gaudin with a successive combo of Joba + Hughes = much better chance of closing game out with a win.

  • no.27

    I think this is a great move, and I don’t think it says anything about what the Yankees plan to do with Joba in the future.

    A #4 starter pitches no more than 2 games in the playoffs, 1 in the ALCS and 1 in the World Series. That’s 12 innings. Joba can get around that many innings out of the bullpen and make it that much better than every other team’s pen.

    It gives the Yankees a HUGE advantage by allowing Girardi to have a really short leash with the starters, and like Gardenhire said, “They can make a start last six innings.”

    Gaudin has done well for the Yankees and with Joba in the pen, they can save Aceves to piggy back Gaudin’s start.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

      Not sure if anyone knows the answer to this, but don’t we get to pick the scheduling for each series, like we did for the ALDS?

      We have the best record and the AL won the All Star game, so we have home field throughout the playoffs. We could pick a long schedule and go with 3 starters throughout if need be. So if were facing elimination, we drop Gaudin and go with CC, albeit on short rest.

      • Greg G.

        No, I think the dates for the ALCS are set in stone.

      • no.27

        I’m pretty sure there is no difference as far as number of days off between the ALCS and the NLCS. Also, I doubt Girardi is going make a roster where he has to start a pitcher on short rest.

        In Gaudin’s starts you can have him go into the 4th and then go batter to batter with Coke ready to face a lefty in an important situation. Then you go with Aceves/Robertson with Marte ready to come in to face a lefty in a big situation. Then you go with Robertson if they aren’t in the 7th inning yet. Then its Joba/Hughes/Mo.

        That looks like a winning combo to me.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        No, the schedule for the ALDS and WS is set in stone.

  • mustang

    ” I also fear that he this move may reignite the debate over Job’s proper role. If he has a lockdown post-season, the fans, those that cover the team and even some of the players and coaches may very well clamor for a misguided return to the pen for the Yanks’ young arm.”

    WHO CARES!!!!
    And what does it really matter. If they end up with a championship we can argue about it all winter long 24/7.

    Talk about losing sight of the main goal.

  • no.27

    As far as Joba’s development as a starter, that’s not what the playoffs are for. Missing 2 starts isn’t going to drastically affect his development, but it does give the Yankees an even better chance to win the starts by CC, AJ, and Andy.

  • MikeD

    Until I see Joba thread the outside corner with a 98mph fastball as he once could as a reliever, I still have no reason to believe “he’s back.” He’s still lost 3mph.

  • Jersey

    Thank Mo.

  • mustang

    Cashman to Girardi

    Cashman: Maybe we should just start Joba in the 4th game after all.
    Girardi: Why?
    Cashman: That damn Joba to the pen debate on RAB would drive me nuts all winter long.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

      Hal Steinbrenner: Brian, clean out your office by 5:00. You’re fired.

      • mustang

        It’s ok Cashman has a job waiting for him here.
        LOL

  • crapulent aka I said good day sir

    I honestly think that except for CC Joe is preparing for a starter meltdown and wants a “rescue this game” bullpen of multiple great arms. I think that’s the strategy.

    • no.27

      I agree.

      With all the days off, Girardi could have Robertson/Aceves/Joba/Hughes/Mo with the lefties sprinkled in when needed shut a team down for 6 innings and still have them all rested and available for the next game.

    • mustang

      Hey that just might just work.

      • mustang

        Hey that might just work

  • Kevin

    Cant worry about development now, its about winning. And lets be honest, Gaudin has severely outpitched Joba in the 2nd half of the season. Its not even close.

    • mustang

      Thank you.

      But forget about the 2009 playoffs here we are thinking about the 2013 playoffs.

  • Mike Jones

    really good read about A-Rod in October

    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....52544.html

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

      “Ted Williams, perhaps the best hitter ever, hit just .200 in 25 at-bats in his only World Series. Ty Cobb, who has the all-time highest regular-season average (.366), hit .104 points lower than that in 17 World Series games. Willie Mays, probably the game’s best all-around player, hit only .247 in 89 postseason at-bats with just a single home run. Joe Morgan, one of the best players of the 1970s, batted just .182 in 50 playoff and World Series games, but he escaped criticism by winning two World Series rings with Cincinnati’s Big Red Machine. Barry Bonds, baseball’s all-time home-run king, had just one great postseason, in 2002, when he hit eight home runs in 17 games; in his other 31 postseason games, Bonds hit only one home run.”

      ahhhh, the good old days. When men were men and sheep were nervous.

    • thurdonpaul

      that was a good read, ty. i loved paulies comment :)

  • vin

    Versus the Angels, I’d prefer Gaudin. If NYY is playing the Sox, then I wouldn’t mind either Joba or Chad starting. Joba has some success against them, but Gaudin has been murder on righties – which will come in handy against the Sox lineup in Fenway.

    For this postseason, this is the right move. I agree with Mike that Joba hasn’t earned this start over Gaudin. Next year, he and Hughes better be in the rotation, though.

  • Brian

    I’ve always been in the Joba being a starter camp and still am. However, I’m much more comfortable with Gaudin starting in a possible ALCS than Joba.

  • Kevin

    Long term I think Joba should be given at least 1 more year to learn to start. For this postseason though you have to ask yourself honestly is there a better chance of Joba being very good as a starter or very good as a reliever? The answer to that is easy.

  • starscream

    “It’s part of his development as a starter, and he’s slated to go just one game. I also fear that he this move may reignite the debate over Joba’s proper role.”

    This has kind of been mentioned above, but not one of these is a legitimate reason to start Joba in a playoff game. Risking getting closer to elimination*? No way.

    *Unless you think Joba has a better chance of winning, which you didn’t argue.

  • Accent Shallow

    I think I’d rather see Joba start over Gaudin due to Gaudin’s significant platoon split. If Joba looks as shitty as he has over the past several weeks, then yank him for Gaudin/Aceves, and give Gaudin any subsequent starts. It’s not about Joba’s development (it’s the postseason, all hands on deck), it’s about giving the team the best chance to win, and sending out a guy who has difficulty getting lefties out doesn’t necessarily do that.

    • http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

      His numbers are also very good against the Sox in limited action-

      “The Yankees are surely cognizant that Gaudin has a 2.64 career ERA against Boston over 30.2 innings. It’s not much of a sample size, but at least there is something they can point to.”

      http://www.boston.com/sports/b....._leav.html

      • Accent Shallow

        But he hasn’t faced the Sox since 2007, so I’d say those numbers are more or less meaningless.

  • Lanny

    Development as a starter? Again when does developing stop and winning start? There comes a time when his development stops and the team winning continues. That is now. Hes a better pitcher right now out of the pen. If it isnt obvious you aren’t paying attention. and at the moment hes needed there where he could factor into every game. We got enough starters at the moment.

    • http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0awG8jw7Ax5xR/610x.jpg Drew

      yes. From his 1.1 innings out of the pen this year he has been amazing!!! SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better then what he can offer as a starter. Give me a break. He’s thrown about 9 pitches out of the pen this year.

  • Lanny

    And who says its 100% fact that they’d use Gaudin to start a Game 4 anyway? What would preclude them from using Sabathia on short rest once? I think its clear that Girardi would prefer having Joba at his everyday disposal than having him be a long man/maybe 4th game starter.

    • Tom Zig

      Nothing would preclude him, just depends on how the series looks at game 4.

      If we’re up 3-0, and maybe 2-1 expect to see Gaudin.
      If we’re down 3-0 and 1-2 expect to see CC

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

        Bingo.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    Well, Gaudin has been pitching better so I guess it makes sense. At this point, I am confident, though, that the Yankee brass will make the right call and Joba will 100% be a starter next season.

  • KDB

    Out of many dumb ideas, this is one of the dumbest. It risks ruining
    the pitcher. They have a fine relief corp even without Joba, or Hughes. Use Gaudin as the long relief ala Aceves. The correct line up would be Joba starting, Gaudin or Aceves in immediate long relief,
    and you still have Hughes, Mo in 8th and 9th. Joba goes out, and pitches every inning, from one through whatever as if each was his last. More than likely however, they will lie to our faces, and say this is merely an issue of innings limitation for Joba. The Yankees
    fearfullness is really disheartening.

  • Sleepy Carl

    Sorry to be off topic (my first offense here) but this is really fucked up. Look at this picture on a boston game feed http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.....038;st=220 .

    • Brian Cashman is watching

      That is absolutely horrible. But worse is the comments in support.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Yeah, that site is literally the first stop after you walk through the gates of hell. The people on that board truly are the scum of the Earth.

    • handtius

      wow, that is really fucked up…some people, and I can’t believe how many on that forum, are sick in the head. That’s unacceptable.

  • Nels

    I think the likelihood of Joba pitching well in this postseason out of the pen leading to him being permanently placed in the bullpen is ridiculous. Yes, it will keep the debates alive, but that’s it. The Yankees have made clear that they want him to be a starter.

    It makes much more sense to start Gaudin. Even if you just end of with 4.2 innings of two or three run ball, it’s better than what Joba has been giving the team. Joba had an 8.22 ERA in August and a 7.15 ERA in September. I am more concerned about him blowing a game out of the pen than pitching so well that he stays in the pen next year. I couldn’t help but laugh when I heard some Red Sox fan talk show hosts say how much they feared the Yankees bullpen now that Joba is in it along with Hughes. It’s like they have never heard of Ace and K-Rob, who should be seeing the high pressure situations anyway. That being said, Joba could be a difference maker potentially this October if he picthes like he has so far. But that’s a big if in my opinion.

  • Sleepy Carl

    They made fun of the few guys who objected to it. Pretty messed up, especially when their ace who is throwing tonight survived cancer.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      The reply button is your friend.

      • Sleepy Carl

        I thought I hit it… Operator error…

  • celerinosanchez

    I don’t care if they use him as a pinch runner. Whatever they think is going to help them win. May I suggest “Back in the Saddle” by Aerosmith when he comes out of the pen?

  • King of Fruitless Hypotheticals

    what are the odds that joba does really well against, oh, 15 batter spread over 6 appearances, and that ignites a firestorm of B-Jobbers next year, and that translates into “Guadin/Meattray as the fifth starter” when spring rolls around?

    I know we’ll win, I just dont want to hear it…

  • Doug

    i’m okay with this, but it’s 2 months too late. should have been done the beginning of august instead of the whole extra rest between starts thing.

  • dkidd

    as long as this doesn’t risk injury, one more power arm in the bullpen is welcome

  • pete

    the thing is, gaudin out of the pen isn’t particularly confidence-inspiring. at this point joba isn’t either, but by the time he’s scheduled to start, he could very well be. Think of it this way: yanks will be playing the angels/sox 4th starter, and really only need 4 innings out of chad. Literally, if the guy goes 4 innings and gives up 2 runs, he’ll have given us an excellent chance to win with our bullpen and offense. Of course, Joba could very easily do the same, but I think there’s a higher chance of an absolute meltdown from him (2 innings, 8 ER, or something like that) than from gaudin.

  • Pingback: Sherman: Gaudin Would Be 4th Starter in ALCS

  • Nickel

    I love this blog and I think all three of you guys are great, but Ben, I must respectfully disagree with you on this one. First of all, let me just say that I think Joba will eventually be an excellent starting pitcher. But the ALCS is not the time for development. Right now, you do whatever it takes to win. Joba’s good outing against Boston notwithstanding, he hasn’t really shown much the last few months of the season to instill any sort of confidence in him. The best way to use him now, after he’s already thrown his 160-something innings or so this season (I’m too lazy to look up the number right now) is to put him in the bullpen. That’s where he’s most effective NOW, and that’s how he needs to be utilized. It doesn’t mean he won’t be an effective starting pitcher next season, but that’s not a concern right now.

    Gaudin, while he’s not light’s out, has shown since he came to the Bronx that he will keep you in the ballgame, and from your #4 starter, that’s all you really need from him.

    As for the media debate, who cares. I get the vast majority of my Yankees news from this blog anyway. :-)

  • Pingback: Joba will be just fine in the bullpen | River Avenue Blues

  • Pingback: Mike Silva’s New York Baseball Digest » Blog Archive » Thoughts on 3 Starters, Joba, Gaudin, Bullpen

  • Rob in CT

    Joba pitched himself out of a postseason start, there’s no real argument with that. The worry I have is Chad Gaudin against LHH. Both the Angels and Red Sox have excellent lefty hitters who will likely mash Gaudin. He’s death to righties, so hopefully he can dance through the raindrops and give the team a chance to win. I’d expect a quick hook, of course. The bullpen is stacked, so Joe should feel free to pull a Torre (in a good way) and yank his starter if he’s in real trouble.

  • http://studyofsports.com Jared

    Why not start CC for game four? He’d be pitching on three days rest, but it would set him up to pitch game seven (if necessary) on normal rest. Further, AJ and Pettitte could pitch games fives and six on normal rest because of the tavel/media days. CC has shown he can pitch on three days rest before and I believe doing it only once will not tire him to the extent it will hurt either the hypothetical game four or seven start. This approach allows the Yankees to throw their three best — and only trustworthy — SPs in all seven games.