Nov
09

Rotation depth and Joba’s 2010 role

By

For Joba Chamberlain‘s future development, his 2009 postseason work out of the bullpen — after staying healthy making 31 starts during the regular season — may just have been one of his biggest steps yet. Despite this October success though and despite his season-long presence in the rotation this year, nothing is guaranteed for Joba in 2010.

Joba Chamberlain had two distinct segments to his 2009 campaign. For the first three months — and not coincidentally, through his first 110.2 innings — he was masterful. After 20 starts, Joba was 7-2 with a 3.58 ERA. Although he was walking around 4.1 per 9 innings, his strike out rate was hovering around 7.88 per 9 IP.

After reaching his career innings high, though, Chamberlain’s effectiveness fell off the table. As the Yankees tried to manage Joba’s innings, they tried skipping his start just once and then put him through a limited form of Spring Training during which they attempted to build up his innings per start in preparation for the postseason. By the time Joba was back at 100 pitches, though, the Yankees had decided to stick with a three-man October rotation.

The numbers are ugly. Through August and September, Joba went 2-4 with a 7.52 ERA in 46.2 innings. He walked 26 and struck out 36 while opponents hit .316/.397/.515 against him. In July, before Joba struggled, we wondered if the Yanks should have allowed him more time in the minors, and later on, we learned that the Yankee braintrust wanted to send him down. They didn’t feel as though they had the pitching depth to do so.

Heading into 2010, though, as Joel Sherman writes today, the Yankees are preparing for more Major League-level pitching depth. The team will have CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett fronting the rotation and expects to sign Andy Pettitte for at least one more season. Sherman adds more:

The Yankees? current intentions are to have Chamberlain and Hughes show up in spring training ready to start. They also may ask [Alfredo] Aceves to come prepared to be stretched out. [Ian] Kennedy also is expected to be ready in full, and the Yankees think farmhands Ivan Nova and Zach McAllister are close to major league ready.

In addition, I have been told the Yankees almost certainly will pick up the $1.25 million option on Sergio Mitre and tender a contract to Gaudin, who is not a free agent until after the 2011 season.

None of this news is too ground-breaking, but it gives the Yankees options. More starting pitchers will give the Yanks the flexibility to work with Joba as he matures and grows into a starting pitcher who will throw in the upper 90s as he did out of the pen in the playoffs while attacking the zone. More starters will allow the team to develop Phil Hughes into a confident hurler who can use that great curveball and mid-to-upper 90s fastball to keep hitters guessing.

Right now, Mitre and Gaudin are hardly going to calm the nerves of Yankee fans. The two of them are back-end starters at best, and even though the Yanks, as Sherman reports, believe they have helped Gaudin improve his delivery to generate more downward motion, the team knows what to expect. Perhaps the Yanks will look at John Lackey; perhaps they’ll kick the tires on a Randy Wolf type.

For now, though, the team is content with what they have. After all, this rotation just delivered a World Series championship, and Joba and Phil will only get better. If they don’t, we know the two can excel in the bullpen. But until they fail, they’ll get every opportunity to succeed, and pitching depth simply gives the Yanks a chance to develop them properly without being held hostage at the Major League level. If Joba needs to get sent down next year, if the Yanks’ coaches need to have another sit-down with him next season to refocus him, that depth will allow them to do so. As Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay show, it wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen to the young starter.

Categories : Pitching
  • http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/05/04/melky_cabrera_cant_believe_it_phixr.png Drew

    I can’t wait to have Joba in the rotation sans Joba Rules.

    As for Mitre, I’m one of the few who like him. I’m really anxious to see that 90-93 mph sinker when he is fully recovered from TJS.

    • pat

      Agreed. I always thought Mitre had better stuff than the results would lead you to believe. I’m more than willing to give him a shot after having a full off season to rest and an entire spring training to prepare for the season.

      • Lanny

        How could anyone like Mitre?

        You also must like Igawa.

  • the artist formerly known as (sic)

    Fangraphs released Bill James’ 2010 projections today, and here’s Joba’s:

    176 IP, 3.73 FIP, 9.72 K/9, 3.94 BB/9, 1.39 WHIP

    I’d take a big bowl of that every day of the week. Fuck and yes.

    • the artist formerly known as (sic)

      which is to say – happy about the IP and the K/9. could do with a lower bb/9, obv.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        A ~2.5 K/BB would be more than acceptable from the 4th starter, though.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      I saw that in the book when it arrived in the mail last week. I think we’d all take that in a heartbeat.

    • http://inthemasses.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mad-max-poster-1.jpg gxpanos

      Arent James’s predictions, historically, overly optimistic though–and especially so with young pitchers? IE, arent there better prediction outfits?

      Obviously, if Joba met that prediction, he’d be a wonderful 4th starter.

      I happen to think that his K/9 will be closer to 8 than 10, is the only reason I bring it up.

      I guess it all depends on the whether Eiland solves the case of the missing mph.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        I’d rather have Davey E work on the case of the missing control. With Chamberlain’s movement, he could still dominate without the extra velocity. If the velocity isn’t there, he’ll have to learn to mix his pitches and hit his spots better. I think we’d all rather have him focus on that rather than trying to throw harder.

        • http://inthemasses.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mad-max-poster-1.jpg gxpanos

          Yeah, that’s certainly true. He should be able to dominate at 92 in time. But it can take years and years for control to develop, as we know. In the meantime, 96 covers up for not hitting the glove. It’s how a lot of young guys dominate until they hit their age 28, 29, 30 seasons when they still have their FB, ALONG with the control.

          In other words, we can’t expect Joba to mature enough to spot his pitches, Sabathia-style, at 24. I would argue that Joba has a better chance of dominating at his age with the giddy-up, rather than command. I’m not at all saying he shouldnt worry about control–but that recipe, velo and control, is what makes an ace in his prime. I dont expect THAT from Joba for at least 2-3 more years.

        • theyankeewarrior

          Yes. Just see the Feliz ab in the 8th inning of game 4. Joba was dealing, but missed his spot terribly on one pitch and it could have cost us the game. If he locates that pitch and takes 3-4 mph off it, the best Feliz can do it his a single.

      • ROBTEN

        “I guess it all depends on the whether Eiland solves the case of the missing mph.”

        This kid has experience, maybe he can solve it? (SFW)

        • http://inthemasses.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mad-max-poster-1.jpg gxpanos

          Haha nice, I loved those. I always wondered whether Encyclopedia’s dad, who was the police chief, felt inadequate because his son did his job and solved most of the town’s crimes over dinner.

        • pollo

          Tiger Meanie stole Joba’s velocity.

  • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

    The probable 2010 rotation gets me very excited.

    • Zack

      +28

    • http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/05/04/melky_cabrera_cant_believe_it_phixr.png Drew
      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        …Don’t act like you’re not impressed.

        • handtius

          it’s the pleats.

  • All praise be to Mo

    They’re talking about our rotation depth and not even mentioning CMW who should be healthy and ready to go come July/August when these guys might be hitting the wall or an injury occurs. I really do hope we resign Wang, he’s been great for us and his ground ball tendencies would definitely be an asset in the new stadium.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Expecting anything from Wang at this point is bordering on pure fantasy.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      I think no one’s mentioning Wang because his future is up in the air. He hasn’t been consistently effective since 2007, and there’s a chance the Yanks will non-tender him. He’d probably return on a minor league deal, but I think that tells you what the organizational thinking on Wang is. They have never been too high on him in the first place, and right now, he’s nothing more than a back-end option for the second half.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

        If Wang had a decent year in ’09, do you think he would be trade bait right now? I think he would be. The Yankees definitely look very smart right now for not extending him.

        • pat

          Cashman is a terrible GM who only buys players and never makes good decisions, didn’t you get the memo?

          • All praise be to Mo

            /Epstein’d

            • Lanny

              Expecting anything from Wang has to be a joke.

              The terrible K rate finally caught up to him.

              • Jack

                His low K rate caused him to get injured?

  • Dillon

    Joba and Hughes both showed last season that we can expect inconsistency as starters. I’m sure both will improve, but I can also envision both going thru some very very rough stretches. Phil due to losing velocity, location when he so often flies open, a curve that doesn’t get a lot of swing and misses, and no changeup that he can depend on yet. Joba was all over the map this past year. Sure, maybe his fastball gets back to a reasonable level (i’ll take 93) as a starter next year, but does that mean his slider and curve come back as well because what we saw from him when he lost his fastball is that his other pitches flattened out as well. Old Joba wasn’t back until his last two appearances in the WS and still that was because he was letting it loose outa the pen. As a starter I wonder if he’s ready to be in a MLB rotation. This is the reason yankee brass was considering sending Joba to AAA and you know they were thinking the same thing when hughes was struggling as a starter. These kids aren’t quite ready for a full season yet. Not saying that won’t be soon.

    Sure we have plenty of depth with a bunch of guys that can be #4/#5′s, AND sure we’ll prob go after Halladay next offseason, but if there’s one move to make this offseason it’s getting Lackey. Not because we don’t have depth, but because he instantly gives us one of the best 1/2 punches in baseball AND is protection when CC, AJ, or PEttitte goes down next year, which is sure to happen. You can never have enough pitching. Lackey is still young and is tested and proven. Sign him.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Lackey’s not only going to command a Burnett like contract, but he’s also had arm injuries the last two seasons (why does the MSM gloss over this?). Pass.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      These kids aren’t quite ready for a full season yet.

      Chamberlain definitely is. He just threw one last year. Even if the Yankees go conservative–not what they did last year w/Joba–he will probably still reach about 190 innings. That’s a full year. And, if that’s what the 4th starter is giving the team, the team is most likely in very good shape.

      • Dillon

        Lackey’s arm troubles are a concern, which is why I wouldn’t go more than 4-5 years with him. If that doesn’t get it done, so be it.

        …and I’m not saying Joba can’t physically pitch a full season next year. I’m saying most likely He and Hughes won’t be very effective if they do. Both have been terribly inconsistent, and although they’ll improve, it prob won’t be by that much.

        All i’m saying is after the big three I don’t think we can count on much, and what happens if we lose CC for a while? I’d love the lackey signing, but with Halladay avail next year and Lackey’s injury concerns I’ll understand if we don’t do it.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          I don’t think they’ll go for Halladay in 2011, either, but taht’s a conversation we can have in a year. Deal? ;)

          Lackey will want a 4-5 year deal, though, and I don’t think the Yankees are going to want to give another pitcher a long deal like that, especially at that much money. The cheaper, safer bet is to pay Pettitte for ’10 and count on the improvements from Chamberlain and Hughes.

          Also, arguing for the Lackey signing because someone might get hurt is kinda silly, no? By that logic, the Yankees should go out and sign everyone because one of their regulars might get hurt. If CC gets hurt, the Yankees are in trouble no matter who’s behind him.

          • Lanny

            Lackey is a legit top of the rotation starter.

            Isnt having a top rotation kinda key??

            And you cant expect Hughes to throw 160+ innings and we all saw how terrible Joba was as a starter.

  • larryf

    Can’t Mo teach Joba how to be Mo????

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I’d rather CC teach Joba how to be CC.

    • Marcus

      Nope.

    • the artist formerly known as (sic)

      - over 9000

      • Tom Zig

        icwudt

        • theyankeewarrior

          idcwudt

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Why bother? Joba has the talent to be better than Mo. Teaching Joba to be Mo would be limiting.

      • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD
      • larryf

        that is exciting. Being better than Mo would keep us in contention for years to come-but then again-we are always in contention. How long do you think Mo can keep it going? I prefer Joba in the pen-don’t think he has the mental makeup for a starter…

        • http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/05/04/melky_cabrera_cant_believe_it_phixr.png Drew

          I don’t think he meant a better closer… That would be blasphemy.

        • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

          Mo could probably do this for another 2-3 years. But, knowing Mo, he’ll surprise us all.

          Why don’t you think Chamberlain has the mental make up for a starter? I really don’t get this argument. He and Hughes displayed the exact same qualities out of the ‘pen, yet people are saying Hughes’ mental make up is more a starter than Chamberlain’s. It’s an inconsistent logic.

        • r.w.g.

          Nobody on this site knows either of the two guys. Maybe a few posters have met them and gotten a napkin signed, but nobody understands anything about their mental make-up.. because we don’t know them.

          We don’t talk to Phil Hughes, we don’t talk to Joba Chamberlain. We don’t know if they have the mental makeup to start or if they don’t.

          We just know they each have multiple pitches which project them as guys who can maybe get through a lineup a few times.

          • http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/05/04/melky_cabrera_cant_believe_it_phixr.png Drew

            I think Joba thinks that we think he knows what he is.

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Joba is who we thought he was.

              Sincerely,
              Dennis Green

          • toad

            Agree. All the psychology is BS.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          My point

          ———–

          your head

          • pat

            Ken Rosenthal’s feet while interviewing players.

            ———–

            A stack of telephone books

            • All praise be to Mo

              + a million

            • Jack

              Heh. I’ve always wanted a player to take a knee while he was interviewing them, just for the sake of comedy.

  • jim p

    All of which argues that the main thing the Yankees will need, and go after, is high-caliber bullpen.

    Hughes/Joba/Kennedy/Aces/Gaudin/Mitre is a pool from which we’ll likely get our 4th and 5th starters (and if there are injuries to CC/AJ/Andy, the 3rd and–gasp–2nd). But you can expect each of them to run into a wall at some point in the season. And/or that they will be typically 6+ innings guys.

    With Hughes out of the bullpen we have Mo, DRob, and Martes (he seems finally healthy) as the relievers you can count on. That’s our weak spot, imo.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      Coke is still a good LOOGY option and we could probably see a bigger contribution from Melancon this year as well. Aceves and Gaudin, IMO, will be just fine as short or long relievers. I think the ‘pen will be fine.

    • A.D.

      My guess is we see:

      Joba and Hughes hold down 4 & 5. When someone has to miss a start/is banged up, then IPK gets some innings, then when the Yanks look to solidify the pen they take Z-Mac or Nova in August and let them throw out of the pen for the major league team, thus both capping their innings, and letting them break into the majors.

      I think the Yankees are liking this path, realizing that as long as they can get a season worth of innings on a guys arm so that it’s not restricting them the next year, it’s not a bad strategy.

      • theyankeewarrior

        Plus, whoever has a worse season between Joba and Hughes can easily translate into the pen for the playoffs (assuming that D-Rob and Melancon don’t quite turn into 07 Joba)

  • A.D.

    If they don’t, we know the two can excel in the bullpen.

    Exactly, make sure they cannot start before putting them in the pen.

    Personally I’d probably just expect/tell Aceves he’s coming out of pen, instead of having him prepare as a starter, and just go with Hughes, Joba, IPK, Z-Mac, and Nova as the “open” competition in spring training.

    • pete

      eh, i think a pitcher who is prepared as a starter is, quite simply, better prepared. I’d rather Ace work on getting all his pitches down, spotting them, etc, ramping up his endurance, than trying to become a short-relief guy. Aceves prepared as a starter can give you 2-3 innings of good relief if you need it, vs 1, maybe 2 if he’s prepared as a reliever. The only guys whose preparation should be different than starters are Marte, Coke, Robertson, Mo, Bruney, and Melancon. If ace and gaudin are prepared as starters during ST, then we have two guys who can eat up innings in blowouts and extra inning games.

  • Rob in CT

    CC
    Burnett
    Pettitte (hopefully resigned to a 1-2 year deal)
    Joba
    Hughes/Aceves

    That’s good. They need more depth, though. Somebody will probably get hurt. Somebody else may struggle.

    It probably depends on what they do about LF and DH. If they go out and get Holliday, then the pitching additions, if any, will probably be bargain hunting type stuff (maybe bringing back Wang on an incentive deal. Looking at Harden or Sheets, that sort of thing). If they don’t want Holliday (or Bay, Mo forbid!), then maybe they do go for Lackey.

    I’d love to see Wang come back and be the Wang of old. I think the chances of that are exceedingly slim. He’s had multiple shoulder injuries in his career. Expecting anything from him is foolish. I’d love it if they did bring him back, stashed him in AAA, and then found out he still has it. That would rock.

    • http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

      I think the Aceves starting ship has sailed (I love that cliche today). The LF/DH thing shouldn’t really affect the SP situation too much and even if they don’t splurge there, I don’t think they should go after Lackey. Too many years, too much money, not that big of an upgrade over Pettitte. I’d rather overpay Andy for one year than overpay Lackey for 4-5.

      • Rob in CT

        Oh, Lackey worries me too. Just like Burnett did. I wasn’t really suggesting a course of action.

        Aceves is best left in the ‘pen, of course. But he’s an option if you need a spot start or to plug a hole caused by injury.

        • pete

          he is, but remember how much worse he got for a while after starting just one game last year (and, to a degree, sucking in that game)? My guess is Z-mack or nova is gonna give you just as “good” of a spot start as aceves will, without negatively impacting the bullpen for the next month.

    • Rob in CT

      I forgot Gaudin. He’s a decent 6th starter/long reliever type. Better than Mitre, anyway. You don’t want to plan on him getting a lot of starts, but he’s nice to have for depth.

    • http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/05/04/melky_cabrera_cant_believe_it_phixr.png Drew

      Don’t we have depth though? Mitre, Gaudin, Ace, IPK. All the guys are great 6th options imo.

      • Rob in CT

        In my opinion, no, “we” don’t have enough depth. Mitre is terrible. Gaudin, Aceves and IPK are serviceable.

        I’m not saying the current roster + resigning Pettitte is bad. I’m just suggesting that it could maybe be better. As with any rotation, just one injury changes things dramatically. Look at this year. Wang was the #2 starter in spring training. Result: Mitre making a bunch of starts.

        • http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/05/04/melky_cabrera_cant_believe_it_phixr.png Drew

          IPK is “serviceable?” He’s 24 with great potential and a ridiculous minor league history.

          You mentioned Sheets and Harden, they are your suggestions for insurance? Wouldn’t some guys that don’t have a track record of being injured be more A-typical depth?

          Ace and Gaudin are serviceable, I agree.

          • theyankeewarrior

            We have depth in terms of numbers, but definitely not in terms of quality. See 2009 Red Sox. The MSM said they had “amazing pitching depth” but really they just had 4 or 5 guys who sucked after Beckett & Lester. Our top 3 is solid in terms of vetera arms & Joba and Hughes are all you can ask for in terms of 24 year old talent, but sometimes veteran arms get injured and sometimes 24 year olds bust. Justin Duchscherer anyone?

            • tremont

              The Yanks starting pitching depth is as good as any team. You can’t very well sign quality big league starting pitchers and tell them “If 2 guys get hurt, you are our man!”

  • Derek

    since when does hughes have a mid to upper 90s fastball?

    • Rob in CT

      He’s only mid-90s in relief. Never, as far as I know, upper-90s. Starting, he’s low 90s.

    • DSFC

      Hughes has hit 97 in relief a few times, but not often.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      Before he got injured in 2007, he was scouted as a 92-96 guy with the ability to dial it up for a pitch if need be. He’s flashed that this year, when finally healthy, in relief.

  • jsbrendog

    two words: jason hirsh. book it.

    • http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/05/04/melky_cabrera_cant_believe_it_phixr.png Drew

      Who!? Who is Jason Hirsh??

      You picked the wrong guy!!

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Romulo.

      • Tom Zig

        Still not giving up on the dream team filled with Sanchezs and Duncans?

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Well, I’ve given up on the Duncan part. I’m doubling down on the Sanchez part, though. I’ve got my eye on Duaner Sanchez for a bullpen role next year.

      • larryf

        romulo can throw 99 but….Jason Hirsh had some success with Scranton and is another big body. Where is Hirsh now?

    • pollo

      JASON HIRSCH AY NEVAH HEAHD OF HERSCH. GOODBYE. EDDIE CUT HIM OFF. JAYSON HIRSCH.

      • http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/blog/images/2008/05/04/melky_cabrera_cant_believe_it_phixr.png Drew

        That’s the buddy sittin next to you or something like that!

        • Al from BX

          Heh, Francesa’s a tool.

  • http://www.workwithpete.com Pete

    I’m not really strongly on either side of the Joba SP/RP debate, but I would like them to just stick with one direction, at least for a full season or two.

    Now that these guys have rings, maybe the organization can calm down a little.

  • JMK aka The Overshare

    I think we have a good amount of depth. I’m most excited about seeing how IPK does. That said, I think it would be a solid idea to pick up Harden or Sheets. Sure, there’s an injury history, but they could definitely give you very good numbers on the cheap. Low risk, high reward.

    • r.w.g.

      Agree. The Front Office knows their guys better than anyone, so if they think they’ve got what they need in house, then I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.

      But I would really think it would serve the team to get Harden or Sheets.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        But I would really think it would serve the team to get Harden or Sheets.

        There’s nowhere to put them, though.

        • r.w.g.

          you’re ruining my dream.

          /mryankee’d

          • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            We can’t possibly repeat next year unless we trade for Roy Halladay, Felix Hernandez, Adam Dunn, Justin Verlander, or all of the above!

            /mryankee’d

  • Aaron

    Does anyone think that Jon Garland is worth signing?

    He has pitched against American League hitters and would give you a decent chance to win every night (10-18 wins in each MLB season except his first 2 years). He has pitched in the playoffs for a championship team and actually had success (Mitre and Gaudin really can’t make that claim). Of course I would have the young guys in the rotation, but he would be a nice back up/innings eater during the regular season. I am not exactly sure what kind of money he would demand, but on the surface he appears to be worth a shot.

    • r.w.g.

      He might be a good idea. I wouldn’t want to give him a lot of money or years, however, because while I don’t think he would be AWFUL, he would definitely get mildly bombed in the AL East.

      • Aaron

        He will turn 31 in September and I would not give him a lot of money/long contract either. When he was with the White Sox his ERA was usually in the mid 4′s and has pitched 190 innings plus for 9 straight years.

        • r.w.g.

          He’ll probably get a good deal from an NL club. He was pretty effective for LAD down the stretch.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      We’ve gone over Garland numerous times. The short answer is no. He’s not very good and not worth the money.

    • Zack

      He’s not worth signing. He doesnt deserve starts over Joba/hughes, and he’s not going to take a spot in Scranton instead of a 4/5th spot in the rotation on an NL ballclub.

      By the way, his playoff experience consists of 2 starts.

      • Aaron

        You are right about his postseason starts. However, Mitre and Gaudin really have no postseason experience when compared to him. I was trying to point out that he could be an upgrade over those guys; I would feel a little better running him out there in a Game 5 instead of Gaudin.

        • Zack

          Yeah but none of those guys will be in the playoffs.
          CC-AJ-Andy-Joba will start the playoffs, if 1 of those goes down then it will be Hughes-Kennedy or 3 days rest again.

          Game planning to think who’s going to start game 5 if 4 SP get injured will drive you nuts though.

          • Aaron

            If Joba continues to perform poorly next year, I doubt that he will start the playoffs either.

            Hughes will likely have an innings limit next year in order to properly stretch him out. I imagine he would end up in the bullpen again?

            Again, I was just suggesting that a guy who has actually played in the playoffs and eats innings might not be such a bad thing to have on your team. I feel like he COULD be an answer to the questions surrounding Joba, Hughes and Kennedy (for that matter).

            • Zack

              How long ago was his TWO starts in the playoffs? And how much has his stuff diminished since then?

              Jon Garland is an NL pitcher. If he wants to sign a minor league deal to be the 8-9th option for the Yankees sure go ahead, but thats not going to happen

      • Aaron

        P.S. I said, “Of course I would have the young guys in the rotation, but he would be a nice back up/innings eater during the regular season.”

  • mryankee

    Whats with all the question marks in the rotation? I like to bet on sure things-who will be the new starting pitcher next year?

  • MikeD

    Joba started 31 games and pitched about 160 innings this year, which means for 2010 he can be pushed up to the 190-200 range. The Joba rules should be history. I’d feel good about this if not for the 7.00+ ERA over the final two months. His velocity was down this year, even when he had an ERA in the mid-3.00 range. Hopefully he rediscovers it, because that is the key to his success as a starter, or even a reliever. Even when he was in the pen for the postseason, he still did not show the 98-100 mph fastball he used to have as a reliever.

    • mryankee

      Be careful in this post to question the Great Joba Chamberlain. I dared to suggest the Yankees try for Hallday but I was told that the Red Sox getting Hallday is a good thing because it will weaken them in the long run. I also hear that Cy Young award winners that go 9 innings and dominate the american league are not good pitchers to have on the staff. So in the end we can just cheap out this offseason while other teams get stronger and hope that the same magic will happen again.

      • Zack

        Just curious, did Yankees win in 2009 without trading for Roy Halladay?

        • mryankee

          Yes they did but can they win again with the exact same team? Its not like I am suggesting they bring in dead weight. I mean Halladay would help? no? Do you honestly belive a rotation of CC-AJ-PETTITE-PHIL HUGHES AND JOBA can win it all> I say this with an expectation that the other teams in the AL will make significant moves to get stronger? I am not off base here. Just because I dont want the team to plan to win it all again in like 2013 is not off base. My suggestin was at the very least you call Toronto and ask what it woould take. Remeber also that Hallday is a 10-5 guy who may block trades to specific teams. Is that not what Randy Johnson did?

          • Zack

            Yes they can. They had #1 offense while missing Alex for 5 weeks. And Hughes and Joba will grow as all young SP do.

            No one said Halladay wouldnt help. But if its going to cost Joba/Hughes plus Montero, plus a $100m extension, then no its not worth it.
            If the plan was to just win in 2010 then do it, trade everyone for Halladay and Felix Hernandez, sign Holliday and Lackey too.
            But the plan isnt just to win in 2010, its to win in 2010 and 2011 and 2012 and 2013, etc

            • mryankee

              As I said at the least I am asking that Cashman call Toronto and see what they would want. What if Hallday would block a trade to an out of dvision team, thus lowering the price. I understand the hopes and dreams of you guys that Phil and Joba will become Koufax-Drysdale type pitchers. I hope so myself but if you can get Halladay for 50 cents on the dollar is it not worth a call? Aside from maybe a few people I guarantee most people in this room if Hallday goes to Boston will not be so optimistic. King Felix is not a f/a nor readliy available until at at least 2011-that is when we will discuss him. Now s probably the best time to steal Halladay from a would be contender.

              • Zack

                Yeah have no basis for what if he blocks a trade out of the division. He’s never said that before and he grew up in Colorado so he’s not an east coast guy or something.
                No one expects Joba/Hughes to be Koufax/Drysdale. Dont use wild exaggerations to make your point.
                You’re not getting Halladay 50cents on the dollar, whatever offer they get from Yankees they’ll send to Boston, Philly or whoever else.

                Theo already has made offers to Seattle for King Felix, Cash should immediately call them and trade for him.

                • Zack

                  You have*

      • MikeD

        I think the Yankees are going to add a more solid starter to the rotation. Halladay would be great, although I really don’t think Toronto will trade him in the division to either the Yankees or the Red Sox. Philly, LA, Texas are more likely destinations.

        No matter, I just don’t see the Yankees commiting to both Hughes and Joba for the 2010 season as starters. Too much risk since neither have proven themselves enough to take out two-fifths of the defending champsions rotation. I think one of them will win the fifth spot, with the “loser” pitching part of the season in AAA, serving as sixth man for the MLB roster, and bullpen duty if required.

    • Zack

      Location is the key to success as a starter.

      • jsbrendog

        and talent. i mean, i agree, but if i had impeccable perfect mariano like location id still be terrible.

  • jmas12

    Not sure about Lackey. As much as the Yankees spent last offseason I think they’re gonna want to trim some payroll. But if you’re gonna give someone that kind of money, Lackey is the right guy, at least in terms of stuff and pitching smarts. In the clubhouse I might have some concerns, especially after I heard him rip Scoscia on FOX after they won game 5.

    With that said I don’t think the Yankees will go into the season with two unproven starters at the back of their rotation like they did in 2008 (Kennedy and Hughes). Also they could use some proven depth after a fairly taxing season on Sabathia, Burnett, and Pettitte. So I think they bring in a #4 and let the kids fight it out for the #5 spot. Chances are Kennedy will at least start in AAA after his arm surgery. Hughes I feel is a starter who just needs the innings to develop, so I could totally see him being the #5. Joba I’m not too sure what to make of anymore. This entire time I’ve been a proponent of him staying in the rotation, but he showed me something in the postseason as he kept getting more and more life back on his pitches in the bullpen. Is this possibly a byproduct of being rushed to the big leagues and not building his innings? Yes. Do I think he at least deserves one more chance in the rotation? Yes. But so do Hughes and Kennedy. And if they earn a spot over Joba, I can totally see him transitioning back to the pen as Mo’s eventual successor (even though I really like Melancon, Joba has the track record).

  • Lanny

    Whys everyone talking about Joba’s innings next yr and not the fact that he was flat out awful as a starter?

    You cant rely on him next yr to be a top starter. You go out and get another top of the rotation starter and you let Hughes/Joba battle it out.

    You cannot go into the season relying on both of them to be good starters.

    • Jack

      For the first three months — and not coincidentally, through his first 110.2 innings — he was masterful. After 20 starts, Joba was 7-2 with a 3.58 ERA.

  • Tank Foster

    Joba and Phil “will only get better”?

    Not sure I agree. The jury remains out on both of them as starters. I think they are both promising, but they are anything but a lock to improve. Some guys just don’t fulfill on their potential.

    • Camilo Gerardo – your inception? fuck perception, go with what makes sense

      you contradicted yourself a little bit there. CC, AJ, AP?, Joba, Hughes is perfectly fine with Wang? Gaudin/Mitre, Kennedy, Nova, McAllister backing them up