Open Thread: Winn comes cheaper than originally thought


When the Yankees first reached an agreement with Randy Winn a few weeks back, reports indicated that he would receive the last $2M left in the budget. Not long after that, the Dodgers landed Reed Johnson for just a six-figure payout, and I said the Yanks overpaid to get their man, even though he was the right player.

Well guess what? It turns out Winn’s deal isn’t quite as rich as originally reported. Take it away, Joel Sherman

The Yankees today also officially signed Winn to his one year contract for a $1.1 million base with $900,000 available in incentives: $100,000 each for 50, 75 and 100 plate appearances, and $150,000 apiece for 125, 150, 175 and 200.

Yes, the incentives add up to $900,000 which would make the total value of the deal the original $2M. However that money is far from guaranteed, and if Winn pockets it, it means either a) something bad has happened in the outfield, or b) he played well enough to earn the playing time. Remember this is a very easy deal to back out of. If Winn’s not producing, they’ll just dump him.

Bottom line: Randy Winn at $2M was an overpay, but Randy Winn at 55% of that with some incentives is just fine. No reason to cancel your season tickets.

Update: Commenter Cecala points out that Winn’s incentives are based on plate appearances against lefty pitchers only. Even better.

* * *

Once you’re finished disagreeing with me, go ahead and use this as your open thread for the night. In case you haven’t heard, we have a perpetual off-topic post now, available at the end of the nav bar above. You don’t have to wait all day to talk about something we don’t have a post for anymore. Anyway, the Devils are the only local team in action tonight, but there is a new hour of 24 on. Enjoy the thread.

Categories : Open Thread


  1. Randy Winn is the worst player ever and will single handedly destroy the Yankees’ 2010 season.

  2. Nothing like making very preliminary last minute spring training (non-Yankees) plans…

    And it all revolves around whether or not my grandmother is around (ie, free lodging)

  3. DP says:

    Bottom line: Randy Winn at $2M was an overpay, but Randy Winn Johnny Damon at 55%600% of that with some incentiveslong term security is just fine. would be even better!


  4. PaulF says:

    Does anyone know what the Red Sox bullpen is looking like next year? I heard some people saying it was one of the top two in the baseball with the Dodgers, but I don’t see it. Rivera, Hughes and Marte are better better than Papelpon, Bard, Okajima, no?

  5. I know it doesn’t look pretty and I just hastily throw a post together, but I’ve got the first real post up on M&A. Check it out!


    If Moshe checks this out: I think I’m just going to toss the penny and grab “Lifestyle” by StudioPress. It speaks to me.

  6. AndrewYF says:

    There’s also a new hour of Chuck on NBC at 8.

  7. Steve H says:

    Until you tell me that Johnny Damon and Randy Winn switched faces, Travolta/Cage style, and we get Damon’s body with Winn’s face, I refuse to re-buy my season tickets.

    /bronx teacher’d

    • JGS says:

      or let Hawkins wear 21 in honor of Clemente…

    • Ever since I signed with the White Sox, the first thing Ozzie Guillen said [was]: ‘You can forget about 13, that’s going to be my number,’

      I like that in this interesting human interest story about the link between two great defensive big league shortstops who share a bond of shared national pride and status… that Ozzie Guillen is still an unhinged batshit insane crazy jerkface.

      That’s the first thing he said to you?

      You know, normally, I’d say that Vizquel was just paraphrasing/adding color to the statement and that “Lissen, cabron, ju not gonna get mi numero mudefucka” wasn’t LITERALLY the very first thing that Ozzie said to Vizquel upon his arrival in Chicago, but I just can’t give Ozzie that much credit. It probably literally was the first thing he said.

  8. Take note, Fangraphs. The price per Winn on the free agent market just dropped.

  9. pete says:

    Funny, I don’t feel threatened.

    ….anyone? no? (walks away sadly)

  10. The Yankees today also officially signed Winn to his one year contract for a $1.1 million base with $900,000 available in incentives: $100,000 each for 50, 75 and 100 plate appearances, and $150,000 apiece for 125, 150, 175 and 200.

    Considering that Hinske and Hairston made it to 84 and 76 PA last year despite only being here less than half the year, and that Peña made it to 115 PA, I’ll say that (barring injury), Winn is a lock to get at least 100 PA and get the first 300k in incentive monies.

    After that, when you consider that the CF mix last year was 540 PA for Melky* and 284 PA from Gardner, and that Gardner is the presumptive starter (i.e. Melky) and Winn the presumptive primary Gardner competition and 4th OF (i.e. Gardner), it’s also a near lock that he gets up to the final 4 incentives and gets the remaining 600k.

    Winn’s gonna get every cent of that 2M. Not that that’s a bad thing, mind you.


    * Gardner’s 2010 share will likely be slightly smaller than Melky’s 2009, since he won’t be spelling the spry Curtis Granderson in CF the way Melky spelled the “ageless” Johnny Richard Alpert Damon in 2009. But, whatevs.

  11. Since he was brought up earlier, here are Jordan’s MiL numbers:

    .202/.289/.266/.556, 3 HR, 17 2B, 30 SB, 18 CS in 497 PA. The IsoD is nice, but everything else is just garbage.

    • Big Juan says:

      I understand that he wasn’t good, but it’s still incredible that he was able to have what little success that he did. He was 31 and hadn’t played baseball since high school. Crazy.

      • theyankeewarrior says:

        Ha yeah, I love how the mass majority of people react to MJ’s baseball career as if he finished with 4 infield singles and 2 walks.

        The guy strolled onto a professional team having not played the game in over a decade and hit over .200 with 20+ XBH including 3 HRs.

        Id say that he could have easily dedicated his life to that game (like 95% of professional baseball players have to) and ended up at least making it to the bigs.

        What a terrible baseball player.

        • Big Juan says:

          I read an article at some point about how impressed everyone in the organization was with his work ethic. They all thought he could have made it if he had put more time in.

  12. bexarama says:

    I feel very nervous with that open threat. O_O

  13. Tea leaf reading time.

    Assume the following: Either
    A.) Marcus Thames makes the 25-man roster out of Spring Training, thus necessitating Jaime Hoffmann being returned to the Dodgers, or
    B.) Jaime Hoffmann makes the 25-man roster out of Spring Training, thus resulting in Thames’s release (as he’d likely try his hand elsewhere or wait for an injury).

    Either way, one makes the 25-man roster and the other is not with the organization.

    This makes our big league roster:

    Yankees (MLB):
    C- Jorge Posada
    1B- Mark Teixeira
    2B- Robinson Canó
    SS- Derek Jeter
    3B- Alex Rodriguez
    LF- Brett Gardner
    CF- Curtis Granderson
    RF- Nick Swisher
    DH- Nick Johnson
    Bench (4)
    Frankie Cervelli, Ramiro Peña, Randy Winn, Hoffmann/Thames
    Rotation (5)
    CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Andy Pettitte, Javier Vazquez, Joba Chamberlain
    Bullpen (7)
    Mariano Rivera, Phil Hughes, Damaso Marte, David Robertson, Al Aceves, Chad Gaudin, Sergio Mitre

    That leaves this as the presumptive Scranton AAA team:

    Scranton (AAA):
    C- Jesus Montero
    1B- Juan Miranda
    2B- Reegie Corona
    SS- Eduardo Nunez
    3B- Kevin Russo
    LF- Colin Curtis
    CF- Reid Gorecki
    RF- Greg Golson
    DH- Jorge Vazquez (1B)
    Bench (4)
    Mike Rivera, Chris Malec, Jon Weber David Winfree
    Rotation (5)
    Kei Igawa, Zach McAllister, Ivan Nova, Romulo Sanchez, Jason Hirsh
    Bullpen (7)
    Jon Albaladejo, Edwar Ramirez, Mark Melancon, Boone Logan, Royce Ring, Kevin Whelan, Amaury Sanit

    Everybody thus likely ticketed for Scranton is currently either
    A.) Already on the 40-man (Miranda, Corona, Nuñez, Russo, Golson, Nova, Sanchez, Albaladejo, Ramirez, Melancon, Logan, or
    B.) a STNRI (Montero, Curtis, Gorecki, Rivera, Weber, Winfree, Igawa, McAllister, Hirsh, Ring, Whelan, Sanit)

    … except:

    Chris Malec and Jorge Vazquez.

    Vazquez and Malec are both advanced in age (they turn 28 in March and August, respectively) and neither are great shakes in the field. For an older minor league guy who’s bound for AAA, I’d imagine that not getting an STNRI at this point has to portend poorly for said player’s future with the org.

    Of course, it could just be that they’re both 1B/DH and the team doesn’t want them taking AB’s away from anyone else since they add no defensive value, but still… that’s a bad sign, no? Or am I reading too much into this?

    Whom else were you surprised did or didn’t get a STNRI?

  14. Drew says:

    It’s so nice having CJ over at Lohud with his knowledge of our farm.

    • I think it’s funny that Pete Abe writes about Sox prospects at the BG.

    • Scooter says:

      It may sound silly to say it, but I’m really rooting for Chad. He’s always busted his tail covering Scranton over the years, and he’s done the same with his Yankee blog.

      Need to give PeteAbe his due here – he was a lot more plugged in to the minors than a lot of the Yankee beat writers, and he gave props to Chad and pointed people at the Scranton blog.

      • DP says:

        Pete as a reporter was great, the problem I had was when his opinion got involved. If he didn’t like a guy, which I got the sense was based on whether or not the guy interviewed with him, he NEVER wrote something positive (see A-Rod.) And vice versa if he did like a guy. To the point, he’d always point out slumps or find underwhelming stats on certain guys (Cano is batting 1-4 when games start at 2:05 EST) He use the same jokes over and over, months after they got old (Angel Berroa is old!) He acted like his opinion was fact and he could often be very condescending.

        /end rant

        • Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

          I thought Pete was funny, his reporting was good, he was an excellent writer, but his analysis sucked balls. That’s him in a nutshell.

  15. theyankeewarrior says:

    Anyone want to speculate on what we would have to trade to LAD to keep Hoff around in AAA?

    It seems like the only way to keep both Thames and Hoffman for OF depth is to put Thames on the 25 man and let Hoff develop in AAA.

  16. bexarama says:

    You know, I really like Tom Verducci, but he… should not read off cue cards because he’s awful at it.

  17. chriskeo says:

    Has anyone heard anything on Girardi changing his uniform number to #28? I really hope he doesn’t. I think it came up at Granderson’s press conference, but not since then.

  18. Rocky Road Redemption (formerly RAB poster) says:

    Fuck, Devils.

    Wow, they’re REALLY struggling. Philly isn’t even playing well.

    C’mon, Kovalchuck.

  19. pat says:

    The Big Bang Theory?

    This show is fucking horrible.

  20. Mo's Savant says:

    I’m doing fantasy baseball for the first time. Any advice on who I should draft first? I’m drafting eighth in my league.

    • Big Juan says:

      Tex might be available at 8. That’d be a solid pick.

      Just try to fill your middle infield quickly, those positions are really shallow. Starting pitching, the outfield and the corner infield positions have much more depth (especially first base).

      Also, don’t reach for closers. Saves always pop up on the waiver wire.

    • Drew says:


      Two of them will be on the board at 8.

  21. From Curt Schilling’s blog.

    Oh and for what it’s worth noted baseball expert Peter Abraham said that I think the Sox should sign Josh because he ‘tries really hard’. Apologies on my part since I obviously thought that teams only consider a player ‘trying really hard’ when committing 75 or so million, not withstanding his 65-34 regular season record, him basically carrying the team to the 2007 WS title, the fact that he’s only going to be 31, ya Peter my apologies for not having the insight into a players makeup or the teams process like the ‘experts’ over at the Globe.

    This is like watching Bin Laden fight Ahmadinejad.

  22. Reggie C. says:

    My favorite character from CALIFORNICATION just got killed off. Damnit Renee!

  23. Just FYI – They’re about to do a segment on prospects/rookies, including Austin Jackson, on MLB Network.

  24. Cecala says:

    Correction with the Winn contract

    “Winn’s $900,000 in performance bonuses are based on plate appearances against left-handed pitchers only. He would get $100,000 each for 50, 75 and 100, and $150,000 apiece for 125, 150, 175 and 200.”


    Makes the deal look even better

  25. pat says:

    Hey Tommie what do u think of Earl Thomas? Is he more of a system byproduct than McClain? I’d be happy if either were holding up a Giants jersey come April.

  26. Drew says:

    Morosi reports (via Twitter) that the Orioles have signed lefty reliever Will Startup to a minor league contract.

    That’d be a hell of a name for a car battery.


  27. bexarama says:

    The way the media has completely turned on Peyton Manning, and how rapidly they did it, is totally annoying.

    • DP says:

      It’s because he’s what stands in the way of Tawmmy being the #1 QB of this generation.

      • bexarama says:

        That’s pretty much what I was thinking. Using the “Tom Brady has three rings, Peyton only has one!!!” reasoning is dumb. So is the “____ would have never thrown that pick in that situation!” because you don’t know. Like I said in the SB open thread from last night, it reeks of David Ortiz would never strike out with a guy on third in a one-run game!

        Luis Sojo has five rings, Shane Spencer has three, Alex Rodriguez has one, Ken Griffey Jr. has none, Ted Williams has none. I understand the quarterback is more important to any given football game than pretty much anyone on a baseball team but it’s like they all forgot football is a team sport.

        Brady is an excellent QB but Peyton > Brady.

        • DP says:

          Welcome to the world of ESPN

          Boston > everything

          • bexarama says:

            It hasn’t NEARLY been just ESPN. I’d expect it from ESPN and just kind of roll my eyes and move on; the fact that it’s so widespread that’s making me so annoyed about the whole thing.

            • DP says:

              Oh, I haven’t been paying attention. But when all is said and done, and Peyton obliterates every record and probably wins a 2nd SB, there won’t really be much left to say. I take comfort in that.

            • JGS says:

              Brady is the underdog 6th round pick who needed Bledsoe to get knocked out to get his chance

              Manning was the #1 overall, son of the Pro Bowl QB. He is supposed to succeed

              Brady = scrappy. All he needs is a gritbeard

  28. gfd says:

    You need to edit “quit” for “quite” in the thread!!

    This is a good signing by Cashman.

  29. pistol pete says:

    Winn will never get the necessary ab’s to qualify for right handed hitting incentives, I doubt Girardi will play him vs leftys. Thames is a far better alternative. If Winn plays vs rightys where does that leave Gardner. Either Gardner or Winn seem to be an extra part. Should have signed Reed Johnson who mashes leftys and can run and field if the Yanks were looking for a platoon for Gardner. Does anyone think this move with Thames makes Gardner expendable. He’s cheap, can run and field, and might garner some interest. Winn has played everyday for years and might be ok in a platoon with Thames. If not, I don’t get the Winn signing. They sure don’t need him to play batting right handed.

    • Big Juan says:

      The exception:

      Randy Winn 2009 vs LHP as RHB – .158/.184/.200

      The rule:

      Randy Winn career vs LHP as RHB – .280/.332/.426

      Baseball-reference.com is your friend. Go ahead and visit it sometime; there’s a wealth of knowledge on there that would prevent us from having to read comments like this.

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