Nov
18

Between the Yanks and Jeter, a hard line emerges

By

Derek Jeter makes a play on Denard Span during Game 1 of the ALDS. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

What’s the difference between a three-year deal and a five- or six-year deal? For the Yankees, it is the difference between a 39-year-old short and a 41- or 42-year-old short stop. For the Yankees, it is the difference between what they want to offer Derek Jeter and what Derek Jeter wants to offer them. So as the Hot Stove League enters its 17th day, the Yankees and their captain might just be settling in for a long, cold winter.

The tale of a tense negotiation has emerged over the last few weeks as Derek Jeter’s disappointing 2010 came to a close. We know he’s looking for what seems to be one final big payday, and we know the Yankees are rightfully wary about signing a 36-year-old short stop with a slowing bat and who isn’t a great defensive player to a long-term deal. Gone are the days of unnecessarily rewarding A-Rod with a ten-year contract, but here are the days of negotiating with the one player who will bear a grudge against that misguided ten-year deal.

The day of Derek drama began with a Joel Sherman column. Sherman explained how the team is trying to offer Jeter what they view as a fair baseball contract. They’re willing to “add some dollars beyond what they see as strictly Jeter’s on-field value to honor his status as an icon,” but they are toeing the line on the years. Right now, their offer is for three more years.

Sherman, who later noted how Jeter has little leverage, explained the good cop-bad cop routine Hal Steinbrenner and Brian Cashman are playing with the captain. “Confidants of Cashman,” The Post scribe wrote, “said the GM is determined not to have the team get so lost in the past that it destroys the future by giving Jeter a contract that either lasts way beyond his effectiveness and/or overpays him to such a degree that hurts financial flexibility elsewhere.”

Later in the day, ESPN New York’s Wallace Matthews added to Sherman’s report. According to his own sources, Jeter is looking for a long deal with a big payday. He writes, “The source says the Yankees are willing to give Jeter more money than his play currently warrants, but fewer years than Jeter currently wants. Jeter, the source said, wants more. Four years, minimum, and preferably five or even six. Right now, it is a standoff, a dirty dance, a game of chicken in which one side or the other must eventually blink.”

While some unnamed baseball officials believe the Yanks should offer a take-it-or-leave-it deal for three years and with an average annual salary of $15 million, the Yankees, Matthews said, are “fearful of taking that sort of a stance with their most beloved player since Mickey Mantle, fearful of a fan backlash and a public relations nightmare even though history says this team, better than any other, can survive parting ways with even the most beloved player in the bitterest fashion.”

At the end of the day, after the anonymous reporting, Randy Levine went on the record with his comments on the process. “Derek Jeter is a great Yankee and he’s a great player. With that said and done, now is a different negotiation than 10 years ago,” Levine said. “He’s a baseball player, and this is a player negotiation. Everything he is and who he is gets factored in. But this isn’t a licensing deal or a commercial rights deal, he’s a baseball player. With that said, you can’t take away from who he is. He brings a lot to the organization. And we bring a lot to him.”

Levine’s comments echo those of Hal Steinbrenner’s. Last week, on two radio appearance he stressed how the Yankees are “running a business” and how these negotiations would be business-like. It’s no surprise then that the Yanks are trying to get as good a deal as they can in the early going.

It’s easy to be worked up and outraged over this from either side. How could the Yankees not re-sign Jeter quickly? How could Jeter let his pride get in the way of reality and demand a six-year contract? Yet, the World Series ended on November 1, and pitchers and catchers aren’t due in Tampa until mid-February. At some point, the Yanks and Jeter will have a press conference and begin to lick their wounds. Hopefully, the middle ground they reach won’t hamstring the team for too many years or too many dollars. After all, the Yanks are indeed running a business, and they’re in the business of winning.

Categories : Hot Stove League
  • Jeff

    If it wasn’t for Hal and Hank going over Cash on A-Rod, this hardline would be alot easier

    • Ace

      Jeter always said team first, if he over-steps that, it will sour the fans on his image, and look like he was all about big money.

      A 37-40 yr old SS is scary, he’s a walking DP at bat and below average defensive player at SS. 1 yr and done.

      • The Scout

        Anything over two years is a mistake in terms of what is best for the team winning on the field. By the third year, the Yankees would already be looking for his replacement and counting the days until Culver or some other prospect is ready for the majors. Talk of Jeter switching positions is nonsense — his bat plays well at short but nowhere else, not in the outfield, at third , or as DH.

        Fan backlish is a myth. Fans will get over it, quickly, because they want a winning team, not the Yankee equivalent of Cal Ripkin, Jr. hanging on too long because there’s nothing else to root for. What fans will not forgive is an aging shortstop who can’t field anymore or doesn’t produce much offense anymore. Better to take the PR hit now and be done with it.

        As for the media, Yankee bashing will be the style of the moment if the Yankees hold the line on Jeter. But the same writers who condemn the Yankees now will be the first to write stories about how the team is too old to win with Jeter in 2013 and beyond.

        • ChrisS

          Fan backlash is a myth

          Agreed. Agreed, history is littered with players that asked for too much, for too long, at the wrong end of their 30s and eventually went to another team only to struggle as predicted. Or sometimes, have an exceptional year, resulting in lengthy hagiographies in sporting media, only to struggle mightily the next few seasons and then retire.

          Father time makes exceptions for no man.

    • The Three Amigos

      Hank did that Arod deal, which is why he is no longer around. I would be so curious to see a redo of the Arod negotiations in 2007 with this front office. Cashman said he was gone and Arod seemingly had limited options based on how much money he wanted and which teams even wanted him.

    • http://RIVERAVEBLUES DARRYL

      Yes, Jeter will be older but I don’t think a 4 year with an option for a 5th year woul be to much to ask in the range or 16-18 million a year. He is still a good shortstop! didn’t he win a gold glove!! How about telling Alex (I can’t hit in the clutch or post season) Rodriguez to cover more ground instead of the foul line. That way Jeter and Cano will not have to cheat to the third base foul line to pick up his slack!!!!!!!!! Didn’t Jeter hit over 300 in the post season!! What did A-Fraud hit sub 100!! Who do you want up in the cluth or big spot in the post season?? I know DERECK JETER any day!!!

  • Anthony Murillo

    The thought of Derek Jeter signing a 6 year contract makes me cringe.

    • The Ancient Mariner

      Latest article said he wants four years…I think at this point he realizes he can’t play another six years.

      • Sayid J.

        Doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to get paid for it.

        • The Ancient Mariner

          If he retires early he doesn’t get paid. I mean a 162 game season is hell on the body, he watched what Bernie went through with the organization, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t want that to be him someday.

    • Dave

      If this year ends up not being a fluke but a sign of things to come, i’d say even a 3 year deal makes me cringe….

      1 year, 1 option year.

      • LarryM.,Fl.

        I agree. Jeter should approach this contract as a team player because the Yankees want him and he wants the Yanks. I respect Mo for his team first attitude with his prior contracts.

        The Yanks are being generous with 3 @ 45 million. He’s a ballplayer/entertainer who has made 189 million dollars over the last 10 years performing very well with outstanding player commitment to the team and game but whats fair is the Yankee contract on the table. It might even be too fair.

  • mbonzo

    As long as Jeter doesn’t end up making his decision on ESPN at 9pm in a Boys and Girls club, I’m pretty sure we will be ok with the contract he receives.

    • jsbrendog (returns)

      i’m taking my talents to cincinatti

  • Mickey

    What position does Jeter think he’ll being playing in years 3-6? $48 million/year for him and Arod to split DH duty?

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      The position is designated hitter, not designated old guy just trying to hang on. I don’t think Jeter should ever be considered a potential DH candidate from here on out.

      • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

        His bat doesn’t profile well there, or in the outfield.

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Well, if he remains a .320 wOBA guy, then no, his bat wouldn’t profile to the outfield.

          If he can bounce back to a .350 wOBA guy (the low end of his pre-2010 production levels) and play a non-shitty LF, he profiles just fine as a corner outfielder. That player is a 3 win player, minimum.

  • Ray the Anti-Handle

    If they can’t negotiate down to 3 years, give him 4, but good lord no do not give him 5 or 6.

  • http://www.lessthismorethat.com/author/ddarrell Jamal G.

    J.J. Hardy has an excellent roll-call name.

  • ultimate913

    Offer 3 years/ 15 per. It’s more than he should be getting but he is Jeter. Leave the offer on the table. If he he feels disrespected by that offer and/or wants more money and/or years, bye, Jeter. You were great, but Nunez will provide more value considering how much he is getting paid.

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      Nuñez won’t provide more value considering how much he’s getting paid because he’ll probably be a 0-win player and get paid for it. He has a history of not hitting at all in the minors, and that should continue as he gets more Major League at-bats. If you want to talk about J.J. Hardy in the unlikely event that Jeter does not sign, I’m all for it, but Nuñez is not much.

      • ultimate913

        I wouldn’t say “not hitting at all”. A minor league .274 BA with a .318 OBP reminds me of John Buck. Just without the power. and at SS.

        • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

          A minor league OBP of .318 is pretty much the definition of “not hitting at all.” That translates into a Major League OBP of at .300 if that.

          • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

            If Eduardo Nunez started for the Yankees fulltime I think at some point a fan driven to insanity from watching him play would jump onto the field and stab him with a plastic fork, after which we would no longer be able to get plastic forks in the park. And that would make me angry because eating cheese fries without a fork is messy!

            • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

              This is amazing. Do you get the garlic cheese fries? Cause those are, well, they’re orgasmic.

          • mbonzo

            Why is there no middle ground with Nunez?
            The regulars and writers here hate his damn guts, and the Jeter haters think he’s gonna be the next Yankees legend. The kid had awful numbers in the low levels but good numbers in the high levels. Although he has no power he has been a very good contact hitter and has limited strike outs well. So I will agree with you that he’s no replacement for Jeter, but he’s a prospect. His numbers mirror Cano’s but with less power, and for a guy that just turned 23, 6′ and 155 lbs, theres room for improvement. Anyway, he’s hit above average the last two years, he’s a good contact hitter.

            • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

              If you are not a Willie Randolph OBP savant or a MIF with a super fantastic glove there is no way to spin a SLG < .400 in AAA as acceptable.

              • camilo Gerardo

                That and yankee fans are greedy

          • MikeD

            True, although in fairness he has improved as a hitter and his more recent performances at the higher AA and AAA levels hold more meaning than what he did several years ago in lower A and A. The last two years he’s .305/.345/.405.

            That still doesn’t tranlate all that well to the MLB level, but not really worrying about it since Nunez will be no more than a back-up as Jeter will be resigning.

          • http://n/a sec13

            Tense?…..Grudge?…..Why add fuel to a fire? Most people that read this bullspit half believe it.

        • http://www.teamnerdrage.com dr mrs the yankee

          John Buck without the power (which is all Buck has going for him) and as a starter not a backup is supposed to be a GOOD THING?

        • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

          A minor league .274 BA with a .318 OBP reminds me of John Buck

          That is not a good thing. At all.

      • The Ancient Mariner

        I think Nunez is a fringe starter on a bad team, but a pretty good bench player…why the hell do people think this guy is a ML shortstop? He’s not. He’s a shitter Alcides Escobar, which is saying something.

    • Shaun

      I can say with confidence, Eduardo Nunez will not provide more value considering baseball is rooted in reality.

  • Kevin Ocala, Fl

    If I were Hal/Hank Steinbrenner I’d be pissed that a player who just finished making $189,ooo,ooo over ten years is trying to sell what he’s done into a contract that is dealing w/ what he MIGHT do. Look, what’s forgotten by Jeter/agents is that the Yanks gave Jeter a huge contract and luckily it turned out well. However, it was the Steinbrenners that stuck their necks out of Jeter and NOT the other way around. Jeter needs to get real, he shouldn’t sulk at what will probably a more than fair offer from the Yanks. IMHO, the Yanks should offer larger than market salaries per year. A series of one year, mutual optioned, contracts. In short, Jeter needs to earn his money year by year like most players, and most people in the US….

    • mbonzo

      So Jeter owes the Yankees for paying him $189 millions dollars? Its not like he worked for free, he is arguably one of the best shortstops to ever play the game, and one of the all-time Yankee greats. This makes the team insane money, I guarantee he was worth more than $189 million over the last 10 years to the Yankees, and now you want to low ball him with an offer because he’s older? As long as the Yankees think he can compete, he’ll certainly make the Yankees money. He’s earned a big contract and negotiation privileges by being an all-time great. Would you be cheap trying to resign Ruth, Gehrig, or Mantle in the last contracts?

      • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

        Ruth was rather unceremoniously let go when the Yanks very publicly opted against making him the manager. Gehrig had AL, and Mantle played when there was no such thing as free agency. The better comp is Bernie Williams, and the Yanks were certainly prepared to let Williams go when he wouldn’t return on their terms.

        • Anthony Murillo

          Thing is, Jeter has more left in the tank than Bernie did. Bernie in the outfield was becoming brutal to watch and his offense was really taking a decline around 2003-2004ish while you can make the case that at least Jeter is passable at his position (omgz da gold glove!!) and there is a ray of hope that he can contribute more offensively.

          I just don’t want him batting lead off.

        • Ed

          Bernie was a replacement level player (or worse) for the last three years of his big deal. He still got another year from the team. And after another below replacement level season, he got offered a minor league deal with a spring training invite. While Bernie may have thought he deserved more, I think the team was actually generous.

          While Jeter’s 2010 was nowhere near his MVP level 2009 season, or even his usual career standards, he was still an above average shortstop. It’s a very different situation.

          • MikeD

            .323/.387/.549.

            That was Bernie’s line against lefties his last season. Think of Marcus Thames, but better.

            It was, ironically, Joe Torre who ended Bernie’s career sooner than it needed to end because Torre never transitioned Bernie to the next phase of his career. That’s because Torre was too faithful to certain players, Bernie being one of them, who got him all those championships.

            Cashman knew that if Bernie was on the team, Torre was going to play him too much, and not use him properly, which would have been as a DH/platoon-LFer against left-handed pitching. If he was on the team, Torre was going to play him every day as the CFer, so Cashman ended it by signing Damon and not offering Bernie a spot on the team, even though he knew Bernie could actually help the team if used properly.

            That’s why I said it was ironic. Torre by being faithful to Bernie actually ended his career.

            That’s why I found it funny when I read articles about how Torre might be better suited to handle the transition of aging players such as Jeter, suggesting that only someone of Torre’s stature could sit Jeter down when the time comes and explain why he won’t be batting lead-off, or why he would need to play less, or consider moving to another position. History says that’s exactly what Torre wouldn’t do. He’d stick with Jeter to the bitter end as his lead-off man and staring SS. Girardi is actually better suited to handle this.

            • camilo Gerardo

              well said, gavenah

        • The Ancient Mariner

          Yeah, things don’t work the same way they did in the 30s. Berine’s a good comp, I think Jeter recognizes the long term money making opportunities that the Yankees can afford him. Look at Reggie Jackson…dude’s making good money and doesn’t have to look like an idiot on national TV like John Kruk.

          • DCBX

            All due respect to Reggie of course, but he did that enough times back in the Bronx Zoo days, no?

            Jeter isn’t Omar Vizquel. Hell, Omar Vizquel isn’t Omar Vizquel anymore =)

            3/45 or maybe 3/45 + 1/12 team option if he can still hit and is willing to do LF/DH at 40.

        • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

          Ruth was unceremoniously let go and the team continued to win.

          Mantle was retained well past his prime years and the team fell in the toilet. Not solely due to him, but those mid to late 60s teams were known as being a group that got old all at once in 1965, and the franchise didn’t recover until the mid 70s.

          • MikeD

            Mickey was past his prime, no doubt, but he’s peak was so high that a fading Mantle was still a very productive hitter, although it was masked to some degree because his fade also conincided with the depressed hitting environment of the mid- to late-60s. Remember, his last season was 1968, the year of the pitcher, when Carl Yastremski lead the league in batting at .301.

            Mantle’s OPS+’s in 1967 and 1968 were 149 and 142. Too bad he didn’t stick around another season as the mound was lowered, and hitting exploded again in 1969.

      • Dick

        in addition, think of all the endorsement money and starlets that have been thrown at him.

  • jim p

    Does anyone know the dollar-value calculations for Jeter’s last 10 years? Was the $189M spot on, too much, …?

    • http://www.secondavenuesagas.com Benjamin Kabak

      Based on the fangraphs WAR valuations, Jeter was overpaid by around $15-$20 million over the last 10 seasons combined, but that’s perfectly acceptable when you consider he’s likely to be overpaid by that much in his next deal.

      • Ed

        I’d imagine just factoring in the time value of money from the heavy backloading would be enough to wipe that out.

        Factor in that a win is worth more to the Yankees than to the average team along with Jeter’s massive marketing power and the team probably came out way ahead.

      • jim p

        No wonder we like Jeets. A player that was worth, then, $16.9-$17.4m a year over a decade is quite an impressive player when you think about it.

      • toad

        Fangraphs, as I understand it, does not vary its valuation based on the team a player is with. A star on a winning team is probably worth more than the same player, with the same numbers on an also-ran.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cecala Joseph Cecala

    The Yankees shouldn’t even offer Jeter an offer until after the Arb deadline is up, making Jeter a type A. That way he loses even more leverage because who would want to 1) Overpay for Jeter and 2) Lose a draft pick.

    • http://twitter.com/joero23 The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Except in order to have draft-pick come into play – either for the Yanks in case he leaves, or just as a deterrent to other teams thinking of signing him, thus lowering his leverage in negotiations with the Yanks – the Yanks would have to first actually offer him arbitration.

      Which is something I’ve never considered, but might be an interesting conversation. It’s obviously a very risky move; the guy made $22.6M in 2010, and anything around that number is clearly a pretty hefty overpay for one year of 37 yr old Derek Jeter, if he were to accept arbitration.

      • http://twitter.com/joero23 The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        “Except in order to have draft-pick compensation come into play…”

        (fixed)

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Shit, I’d offer him arb and pray that he accepts.

          If I’m Hank/Hal, he can have 25M in arb for all I care; that 25M will be a one-year commitment. Easy exit strategy if his decline worsens.

          There’s no way Jeter accepts arb, it’s too risky for him. He wants the long term contract this winter to lock in decent AAV rates for three and four years from now.

          • http://twitter.com/joero23 The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            I really haven’t thought about it before, but I tend to lean in that direction, too. I don’t think he’d accept, so if he left, great, draft picks. And if he stays, it’s a financial hit. I do think $25M for one year of Jeter in 2011 is insane, though. Yeah, it’s one year, but that’s a huge amount of money to sink into a guy who won’t be worth it, and I don’t think the Yanks have an unlimited payroll, so I do think it matters. It’s an interesting idea… I hope they do it. I think making the offer puts them into a better negotiating position vis a vis Jeter, when all is said and done.

            • http://twitter.com/joero23 The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              “And if he stays accepts, it’s a financial hit.”

              (fixed)

  • Anthony Murillo

    It’s going to be interesting to see where Girardi bats Jeter in the lineup if he really struggles. Imagine what that’ll be like…

  • FIPster Doofus

    Take three years, Derek, or enjoy ending your career as an [insert inferior team's name here].

    • Greg golson

      As a Red Sox, lol

  • Shaun

    In the perfect world, Jeter would just take the three years, improve upon the numbers he had this year and just get a payday at the end of the contract if he chooses to continue his career beyond the 3 years. Of course the only logical offers from that point on would be 1 year deals. I’m just not comfortable with a guy in his late 30s being paid that much for that long, I’d be okay with watching him walk if there was another viable option for SS.

    • jim p

      Oy. Pity Jeter’s replacement if he were to walk. The guy’d have to come out hitting .400 with a few game-winning hits for the first half of the season.

      • Shaun

        All I know, I’m not a religious man, but if heaven exists, and George Steinbrenner had access to today’s NY Post, he’d be rolling in his grave right now.

    • Troy V

      It seems to me Jeter is only important for his 3000 hits…if the Yanks were really interested in putting the best team on the field every year…they’d only give Jeter a 1 year deal maybe with club or mutual options…if they have to give out 20 millinon to resign him i guess it’s ok…but the contract should have mutual/club options for maybe 2 years with declining salary 10 mill then 5 mill….to give themselves complete flexibility and give him a pay more comenserate to his actual skills…Jose Reyes and JJ Hardy could both become free agents next year and both could realistically out produce Jeter…so the Yanks could just pay him a buyout and move on…I believe with each year Jeter and Arod stay on the team…the harder it will be for the Yankees to make the playoffs…so giving Jeter anything more than one years is not smart…

  • bonestock94

    Eh, I hope this is just media BS. I was hoping this wouldn’t be so ugly.

    • Chris

      It’s really not ugly. It’s just a disagreement on the number of years. There’s no indication that they won’t reach a compromise.

      Did people really expect Jeter to resign before Thanksgiving? If it hits February 1 and he’s not signed, then I’ll call it ugly. Right now it’s just negotiating.

    • ChrisS

      Business is ugly. Jeter has made plenty of money for himself and the Yankees. I certainly won’t shed any tears for Jeter crying himself to sleep on his huge pile of money because the Yankees aren’t bending over and giving him another giant pile of money.

  • kosmo

    from what I can gather NY has offered Jeter 63 million over 3 yrs.Jeter wants a 4-6 yr deal.Yanks are being generous enough.

    • RL

      Agree they are being generous enough. However, this is a negotiation. You generally don’t accept the first numbers thown at you (even if they are very good). You press to see what you can get. When you’re convinced you can’t do any better, you accept or walk away. (When buying a new car, do you accept the first price the dealer throws at you?) This is business for both sides, not just the Yankees.

      • Troy V

        3 years 63 mill was not the first offer…it was 3 years 45 mill….which was too much…

  • Dick

    This is almost like Torre all over again.

    Being the highest paid shortstop (twice that of Hanley) for a rapidly declining vet isn’t enough, he wants MORE.

    Let him walk. See who else will pay him $20 mil per year.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      OK, then who plays SS next year? Eduardo Nunez?

      • larryf

        Yes. We can succeed without the 5-10 HR’s, 55 rbi’s, limited range and 25 gdp’s. We have tons of veteran leadership on the team and the money can be spent wisely on several good pitchers. The Giants did pretty well this year with 8 position players who wouldn’t start on our team. We are looking forward here, not backwards. Let the Robbie Cano era continue!

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          Maybe we should play Greg Golson at shortstop. What do you think of that idea, friendo?

          • Monteroisdinero

            You seem to have it in for me Tommie and that is a scary thought. I will somehow persevere :-)

            /friendo back at ya

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              I just like messin’ with ya.

              (I wish you’d pick a handle and stick with it, though.)

              • Monteroisdinero

                I know but I have too many computers and I was hoping you wouldn’t catch me but, as always, u r 2 clever.

      • The Three Amigos

        Maybe the japanese player who is currently being posted. His name slips my mind. Wouldn’t that be crazy if the Yankees won the bid on him before even resolving the Jeter negotiations.

  • Anthony Murillo

    I really don’t see how Jeter has much leverage. In today’s baseball world, what team would over pay in years AND money for a 36 year old short stop whose facing declining offensive skills?

    Maybe the Yankees should offer what they feel is fair and tell him to take it or leave it.

    • bonestock94

      There are still a few teams that appear to be stupidly run. I really wouldn’t be shocked if someone besides the Yankees came close to his demands because of his “winning veteran presence.”

      • dalelama

        Sign Edgar Renteria if you want winning veteran presence and save $60M. If Jeter doesn’t like $63M over 3 years let him walk. It is more than double what he is worth.

  • bonestock94

    The Yankees don’t have a lot of leverage either. I don’t wanna have a Cesar Izturus at SS for the foreseeable future, at least Jeter has the chance of bouncing back a bit.

    • FIPster Doofus

      Juan Uribe and J.J. Hardy are free agents, and both provided similar value to Jeter this past season. They’ll also cost much less than Jeter to sign this winter. I don’t want negotiations to collapse and for Jeter to leave – nor do I think it’ll come to that – but the sky won’t fall if Uribe, Hardy or another along those lines is playing short stop for the Yankees next season.

      Again, that probably won’t happen, but you never know – Jeter might play the “I’m insulted” card a la Torre and head elsewhere.

    • http://www.theyankeeu.com/author/steve-s/ Nostra-Artist

      Yeah, those of us that remember the Yanks pre-Jeter remember guys like Wayne Tolleson, Spike Owen and Alvaro Espinoza, which wasn’t pretty.

      • ChrisS

        And I remember the Yankees pre- Posada, or pre-rivera.

        Players get old, Jeter isn’t going to relive his glory days. Sacrificing financial and positional flexibility in 2012, 2013, and 2014, plus in order to bet that Jeter isn’t worse than Hardy, Izturis, or Nunez, isn’t a bet I’d like to make without the odds on my side.

    • Troy V

      the Yanks have plenty of leverage they can make a trade…they could move Curtis Granderson Eduardo Ramirez and Ivan Nova for Stephen Drew and sign Carl Crawford for LF and move Gardner to CF…if Crawford goes for 18 mill a year for 7 years…they get good production for 5 or even 6 of those years…Crawford will give a team closer to contract vaule than Jeter will…if DJ gets 21 for 3 or more years he is only worth 5 of that…so letting him go just means the Yanks have to make a trade…or they can go with Eduardo Nunez and wait for a better free agent in 2012…Nunez could be the Melky Cabrera of 2011…then they upgrade next season.and Crawford/Drew is better than Granderson/Jeter.

  • http://jukeofurl.wordpress.com Juke Early

    This is deplorable. And doubly so because I was naive enough to believe Mr. Jeter was better than this. Not because he’s only “human,” that’s okay. But because he’s one more arrogant jock who sees himself as Superman. If 2 out of 3 ain’t bad – the two need to be Rivera & Lee. Though, maybe Mo & Cliff Lee have the same problem. Everyone of these guys needs to read a book. I’m not talking War & Peace; they need to read about Ruth, Mantle & Gehrig. Being only human, led to sad ends.

    Jeter had a virtually spotless record; I was on his side versus the hubris of those – never played the game – suits. Not anymore.

    • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com bexarama

      I don’t see why athletes wanting to get as much money as possible – or indeed anyone trying to get as much money as possible – is “deplorable.” Not really sure why hysterics are warranted here at this time, knowing what we do.

      • Anthony Murillo

        Want to know how it’s a little bit different? Because Derek Jeter is different than most athletes, at least he’s portrayed differently. I’ve never heard anyone call him selfish; rather, all we hear is how classy he is and as Captain of the Yankees all he cares about winning. Well if that’s true, then Jeter should look at himself in the mirror and realize that asking for 4 years to 6 years at 20 million a year is harmful to the Yankees. I understand he’s still an athelete but if he truly wants what’s best for the Yankees then he has to realize he would harm the team by sticking around for more than 3 seasons

        • whozat

          Eh…we’re barely halfway through November. We haven’t even hit the arbitration deadline yet. It’s not like he’s a training camp holdout. Why should he take the Yanks’ first offer? Why should they capitulate to Jeter’s first demand? It’s not like his agents are trying to get media traction on some kind of “look at what the Yankees are doing to the beloved Derek Jeter” story, they’re just trying to get their client more money. That’s their job.

          We’re in the first rounds here, and it’s a normal negotiation. If he’s still holding out for years and money a month from now, ok maybe he’s being just like another “money-hungry athlete” — which, one could argue, goes against the image that he has cultivated.

          • Corporate Scum (formerly Joe West’s Music Career)

            This. This, this, this. It’s a negotiation people. Both sides are entirely justified in trying to get the best deal. Both will eventually need to compromise some. If he was threatening retirement in the press, or openly negotiating with the red sox, or holding out through february, fine. Otherwise, this is perfectly legitimate business behavior. Chill out folks.

            http://tinyurl.com/njrhsj

            • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

              BUT DEREK JETER WANTING TO BE PAID FOR HIS SERVICES IS STEALING MY INNOCENCE

      • Sean C

        That.

  • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

    “said the GM is determined not to have the team get so lost in the past that it destroys the future by giving Jeter a contract that either lasts way beyond his effectiveness and/or overpays him to such a degree that hurts financial flexibility elsewhere.”

    I am so, so, SO relieved to see that our GM understands this.

    I love Derek Jeter as much as anyone, I fell in love with him when I was 7 years old and he was a beautiful 22-year-old, but the reality is this: Derek Jeter is not Derek Jeter without the Yankees, the Yankees are the Yankees without Derek Jeter.

    • Shaun

      I am so, so, SO relieved to see that our GM understands this.

      I love Derek Jeter as much as anyone, I fell in love with him when I was 7 years old and he was a beautiful 22-year-old, but the reality is this: Derek Jeter is not Derek Jeter without the Yankees, the Yankees are the Yankees without Derek Jeter.

      This about sums it up about as well as it could be summed up.

    • Sean C

      Being 11 when Jeter broke in, it will be weird for me when some one else is the Yankees SS. I tend to think that’s what Jeter’s going after in his deal, who is going to replace him? If the man still thinks he plays SS at an elite level, he is mistaken by metrics and scouts and our eyes. However, the significant offensive decline in 2010 he took cannot be ignored. How many more rebounds does a 36 year old SS have in him (even The Jeter)? I am all for being sentimental, but Jeter is not worth a payday at this point in his career. He’s made his money, salary and endorsements what-have-you, and it seems to me like he should leave it on the field. However, I am just a fan of Jeter and the Yankees. Whatever they work out, I will be along for the ride. Baseball is a game, and a business, and as a Yankee fan I respect both ends. Derek Jeter is a Hall of Famer, it has been a pleasure watching his career, and I can only hope he plays out the rest of his career without any lingering awkwardness. Either way, HE IS DEREK JETER. Our generation has to respect that. But damnit, it’s not going to be that easy right now.

  • JeffG

    Last time the Yanks negotiated with Mo I remember Mo waiting and waiting exclaiming the Yanks had to show him “respect.” I think the Yanks can stay on a three year 45 mil contract because no other team would be stupid enough to top that. Yanks do not need to bid up against themselves, they need to make sure were are not going to be hamstrung by a left side on an infield that can’t range for shit.

  • Lisa

    Thankfully, the Yankees appear to have learned their lesson from the A Rod deal and will not make the same mistake with Jeter. My guess is Jeter believes he was owed a longer term deal because they gave A Rod one that lasts into his 40’s. I really hope the Yankees stick to their guns here. I read they will probably overpay in dollars, around 19 million per year, which I think is too high, but I could live with that if it’s only for 3 years. This also makes me wonder are they going to offer Cliff Lee 7 years? I keep hearing he is looking for a CC deal but he is older than CC is. CC was 28 when he signed it if I am not mistaken and I think Lee is 32 or 33 now. To me that would be another big mistake. I would love to see Lee here but not for those terms.

  • V

    Am I the only one that wants them to offer 2x$10 then go about the rest of the offseason planning? I hate to say it, but his bat is NOT getting better.

    • larryf

      I agree with his bat not getting better. He was (last year)/and will be a terrible leadoff batter. Swings at too many first pitches, tops too many grounders that he can’t beat out and forces ARod to play 20 feet off the line to make up for his limited range at short. 3 years will be enough for me-actually 2 would be fine but…Are Elvis Andrus and Edgar Renteria that great? We can win with Derek’s money going to pitching if we can get it.

      • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

        Are Elvis Andrus and Edgar Renteria that great?

        No. Are they both shitloads better than Eduardo Nuñez? Yes.

        • Monteroisdinero

          shitloads takes just about everything into account including pitching, the other 7 position players on these teams and the 21 million we’ll pay Jeter. Sure.

        • camilo Gerardo

          no.

    • http://theyankeeu.com Matt Imbrogno

      While it’s not likely that his bat will improve from his career numbers, it can (and probably will) improve from last year.

    • Troy V

      Am i the only one who wants to offer him 1 year 15 mill or maybe 20…feeling strongly that no team would offer him more than a 2 year deal at no more than 7.5 mill a year…if he got a 5 mill buy out…who would match that.Yanks get jeter for his 3000 hits…Jeter gets a big payday…and if he still feels like he can play maybe he gets 2 years 5 mill a year else where…

  • MikeD

    I’m not even sure if any offer has been extended. The two sides are posturing. The “unnamed” sources pretty much sides with the Yankees thinking, which leads me to believe it’s probably Randy Levine.

    So the Yankees are going to offer three years, but Jeter wants at least 4, 5, or six years. That pretty much sounds like Jeter wants a four-year contract. Since both sides expect they’ll be some compromising, I’m guessing they’re going to settle on a four-year deal.

    I’m saying it’s 4/76.

  • mac1

    I’m not sure Jeter won’t rebound a bit offensively in 2011 (.280/.375/.400ish). For me, he still provides + offense at the position and range aside (which is a significant issue), I can more than live with the D.

    I’ve been saying all along 3/45 and if he doesn’t take that, I’m good with giving Nunez a shot and bringing in a veteran who can play +D at the position.

    I get the whole legacy thing, but for just me, I could care less – I felt that way about Mattingly when he hurt his back as well, as great as he was, it was no fun watching a diminished Donnie. I still think Jeter could provide alot of value over a 3 year deal and he might actually be worth more, I just have no desire to live in the past and as much as I love the Yankee brand and old timers day I’d really rather not see guys playing in spots they shouldn’t be playing in b\c the FO is afraid of a PR problem.

  • LouC

    Randy who? Even his wife wouldn’t know his name if he didn’t work for the Yankees. He wouldn’t know which end of the bat to use if Jeter smacked his head off the right field wall for a double with it. All this bitching about Jeter is insane. Doesn’t anybody remember the endless stream of nobodys playing shortstop before Jeter? Or how about 18 straight years without a World Championship. Loyalty is a two way street.

    • dalelama

      Yeah and Jeter has already paid $189M for the last ten years during which time he have won exactly one World Series the same exact number as Edgar Renteria.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joe Pawlikowski

        You don’t actually think that means anything, do you?

        • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

          David Eckstein has won TWO World Series, twice as many as Jeter over the past ten years.

          We should sign Eckstein, and then kick Jeter in the balls for having the audacity to make more money than a scrappy grit-warrior who has won twice as much.

          Q.E.D.

          • http://www.twitter.com/jordansmed JGS

            twice as many Series, and infinity times as many WS MVPs!

          • dalelama

            Irrelevant hyperbole…

        • dalelama

          In context to the post it was responding to absolutely.

    • Jimmy

      I disagree with the point. Past performance can’t impact this too greatly contract otherwise the team will suffer. But you do bring up some horrible nightmares of the Spike Owen, Mike Gallego and Kevin Elster eras. Blech.

    • mac1

      I do, but Spike Owen and Mike Gallego would like to have a 4 letter word with you…

  • matt

    I hope they dont go more than 4 years!!!! Thats a gift to him!!! They are reading these post to see what the fans are thinking…..

  • Kurt

    I would offer DJ no more than 3 years at $18M per year. While he’s my favorite ballplayer of all time, he cannot escape Father Time. Two more years is the most I can see him playing shortstop. Then what? DH? His skills don’t fit that position very well. The Yankees have to continue to get younger because they already have far too much payroll invested in aging ballplayers.

    • V

      Anything over 3×15 is theft. And that’s already overpaying for his ‘legacy’.

  • kosmo

    Jeter for his career has made an estimated 205 million in salary .He makes another estimated 7-9 million a year in endorsement money.He´s building a 30 million dollar mansion somewhere in Tampa.
    The Yanks offer on the table is rumoured to be 3 years 63 million.He´s got more money than he´ll ever know what to do with and he´ll stand to make millions more after he retires much like Michael Jordan has done.
    The Yanks can´t mortage their future on an aging SS.
    At least Jordan has charisma or at least the way he´s being portrayed thru advertising.To me Jeter has zero charisma.Get your kids a Jeter jersey while they´re still hot!

  • I am not the droids you’re looking for

    I think it’s extremely unlikely, to the point of not even being worth worrying about, that anyone would outbid a take-it-or-leave-it-Derek offer of 3/$57. I would even front load it so the final year weren’t so painful to us, which also helps Derek from a TVM standpoint. Maybe also throw in say a $5 million donation to Derek’s foundation.

    Might that sort of offer hurt his pride enough for him to sign elsewhere for less money? Well if he is that pigheaded I say let him.

    I would rather overpay in time/money for Lee than Jeter. It’s a reasonably safe bet that we will get ace level pitching out of Lee for 2-3 years, then at least middle of the rotation pitching for another 2-3. It’s also a reasonably safe bet that we will get only above average but declining offense out of Jeter, and well below average and declining defense at SS. And that’s in Year 1 to say nothing of years 2-X.

    That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

  • http://www.bleedingyankeeblue.blogspot.com the mighty casey

    I think the money should be bigger and the years should be higher for the reason of phasing him out over time. I think that’s fair. I wrote about it here.

    http://bleedingyankeeblue.blog.....appen.html

    • Troy V

      Sorry but i just think he is not worth it…paying even more money is just rediculous….

  • JerseyDutch

    I guess I don’t see why this is a big deal. Jeter wants the best deal he can get. Cashman wants the best deal he can get. They’ll eventually meet somewhere in between. At this point it doesn’t sound like there’s any bad blood between the two and I don’t expect there will be. It’s a business negotiation, pure and simple. Prediction: 4 years in the $17 million/yr range.

    • http://twitter.com/tsjc68 tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder

      BUT DAMNIT JETER’S ALREADY MADE ENOUGH MONEY HE SHOULD PLAY FOR FREE NOW.

      Sincerely,
      Vinny from Port Richmond (on the carphone)

      • JerseyDutch

        He should pay them to play!

  • Chris

    If he had his 2009 this year I wonder what he’d be asking for?

  • Yank the Frank

    3 years 20 mil per, club option for a 4th.

  • theyankeewarrior

    I think 3/45 is fair. If Jeter wants 4 years, then I say they give it to him and take the AAV down.

    2/38

    3/45

    4/48

    5/50

    If Jeter signed a 4/48 contract, the Yanks would be paying him 12M in 2014 to basically be a really old SS, or at least a really good option off the bench/captain/PH.

    I can live with that if it saves us 5-8M per season in 2011, 2012, and 2013. We can do a lot with that money on the open market.

    • JCK

      If they offered him 3/63, how about 4/63? Give him the extra year, but don’t wiggle on price. First three years at 17m per, fourth year mutual option at 12m. Maybe throw in some performance and milestone incentives (3,000th hit, etc.).

      He takes his three years at 17m, and if he thinks his 39-year-old season was good enough to warrant a raise above 12 million as a 40-year-old, he can decline the option and see what happens.

    • Troy V

      Are we forgetting how much worse he’ll probably get over each year…why give him 4 years…2 is too much.

  • Teh Compensation Pick

    I’d be okay with giving him a 4th year, but the AAV is where I get really hung up….I think 4/48 would be great for the Yanks. I think that an AAV much greater than that is kind of ridiculous.

  • mac1

    I wonder what Jeter and his 3,000 hit chase is worth to the Yanks? You know the FO guys must have a pretty solid estimate.

  • Mike HC

    I just heard Jeter turned down a 3 year 63 million dollar deal. Either the Yanks are going to pay him like a free agent in his prime, or this could get interesting.

    • Mike HC

      I should add that neither side is going to look good if Jeter ends up playing elsewhere. But shit like that happens in sports all the time.

    • Jimmy McNulty

      False? The Yankees would be happy to agree to that, but the first contract they offer will likely be 3/45; and 3/63 is paying him like a free agent in his prime.

      • Mike HC

        Its false that I heard that?

        • Mike HC

          And free agents in their prime don’t get 3 years. They get 5 and over.

          • Mike HC

            And I know that the Yanks would agree to that, because that is what they reportedly offered. What comment are you responding to?

            • Mike HC
            • Jimmy McNulty

              Offer =/= what they would agree too. They’re not going to open up with 3/63.

              • Mike HC

                Because the Yanks would leak that they would accept a 3 year 63 million dollar deal to the press without that being their offer. That is not how things work. If Jeter didn’t know before that the Yanks were willing to offer that, which I’m sure he did, he knows now. Meaning, that is clearly the Yanks offer. And Jeter wants more than a three year deal.

                For all intents and purposes, the Yanks offered 3 for 63 and Jeter wants more years. Really not sure how this can be seen any other way.

                • Jimmy McNulty

                  1.) Wallace Matthews

                  2.) Anonymous.

                  • Mike HC

                    fair enough. We just disagree then. But we are both ignorant.

                • MikeD

                  The Yankees have not made an offer as of yet. Each side is waiting for the other to make the initial step.

      • JCK

        The 3/63 figure is from the ESPN New York article that RAB links to in this post. Just, fyi.

        • Mike HC

          ah, my bad. Didn’t open every link. I don’t get how people don’t see that as a clear 3 year 21 mil offer then.

          • Jimmy McNulty

            Just because you’d agree too it doesn’t mean that you’d offer it this early in the game.

            • Mike HC

              I’d agree with what? My point was that if one side knows where the other side is willing to go up to, then that is the offer. Any of the other bullshit is just that, because you know where they are willing to go, which makes that number the starting point.

              Again, just the way I see it, if you disagree, that is fine.

  • BigBBFan

    Pay him the major league minimum, but give him a bonus for every rally killing DP he hits into. It would probably make him the highest paid shortstop in history.

    • Troy V

      your funny…i love it..!!!!

  • Kish

    Ben,

    From everything I’ve read there seems to be a collective view that Jeter’s baseball worth for the next three years is around 7-12MM per season. Given the amount the Yankees are reportedly offering him as a premium (let’s call it $5MM-$10MM per season) can you write a post showing what that amount of payroll can add to the team in terms of wins? Meaning if we paid him his fair market value and used the additional $5-$10MM to improve the roster elsewhere how many additional wins would you expect the Yankees to earn in 2011? I love Derek, but first and foremost I’m a Yankee fan and I suspect the same is true for 90% of the fans. Given that, I wonder how much that would skew this discussion if people could see the tangible effects of the opportunity cost of overpaying as we traditionally have. One game last year was the difference between the division and wild card. Could we expect one or two more wins with that additional money? Three or four?

    To me this is a fact seldom discussed about the Yankees and Red Sox: the former overpays its stars for past performance and the latter continues to get its stars to take discounts or take a hike. So while there may be a $40MM difference between the two payrolls if you subtract the premium we needlessly pay the Jeters, Posadas and ARods and you add what the Sox “should” be paying the Pedroias, Youkilis’ and Ortiz their payroll difference tightens up considerably. As vast as our payroll is we still haven’t unlocked its true value.

  • RL

    Folks, This is a negotiation. It’s give and (in the end) take. Once side puts out an offer, the other side sees if it can do better. In the end, when the best/final offer is out there, it will either be accepted or the 2 sides split. It’s business!!!

  • Rockdog

    One thing that should be in the Yankees’ favor is that Tsuyoshi Nishioka was posted. While not without issues, he is 26, has a reputation as a good fielder, and hit .346 last year (lifetime .293 hitter).

    • Troy V

      I wish the Yanks would use Nishioka as leverage or to just to go in a different direction…as long as they don’t give him a no trade clause…so if they want t deal in 2012 they could….

  • Raemius

    Right now Jeter maybe looking at the A-Roid deal and saying what about me, but in the back of his mind I’m sure he’s thought about what happened with Bernie and what is going to happen to Jorge and Andy. I’m sure Mo’s situation will also play into the eventual outcome. Jeter was a great ballplayer. He can still be an above average one. He’s a singles hitter who’ll play high pct. defense with limited range. As Leiter likes to say “know thy self”. I’m sure at the end of the day he’ll sign for three more years at an average of $18 mil. He’ll play Short the first two and fade out after that. Mo will also up for two more. Andy and Jorge go out together, then Mo, then Jeter. Each will have their last glorious day in the sun aka farewell tour on their own terms.

  • Mr. Jones

    I was thinking $40m over 2 years was the best way to close this deal. You overpay him like you have been over the last 10 years but you only have to deal with his decline for 2 years. BTW Where are all the Jeter fanboys from Goldman’s blog whining about how Jeter is the best defensive short stop ever and how he should get a 10 year deal?? I love the RAB and it’s unemotional and intelligent readers.

  • Miguel

    The Yankees can’t make the same mistake they did with A-Rod’s contract. Fan backlash? I for one totally agree that the Yankees must play hardball with Jeter. 3 years for 45 million. Take it or leave it and if you don’t like it, go somewhere else and realise your not the same anymore. The more he demands just because of past success, the more he damages his image. Wasn’t he the one with a “team first” mentality? Sorry Derek, but as Hal likes to put it: “Nothing personal. Just business.”

  • NY Yank in BMORE

    The Yanks should offer Jeter 2 at 15 per, and that is generous, unfortunately. What makes the Yankees annoying to a true blue Mattingly-Henderson-Bernie-Jeter fan is that the Yanks will go spend $120 million on a pitcher with four good years, after giving ridiculous contracts to SAB, BURNETT, TEX, and AROD. We’ve gotten lucky with SAB and TEX, because injuries can happen to anyone. If Yanks trade for Upton, and trade Gardner, I’ll puke. Gardner’s my favorite Yank right now, and he should play Center, hit 1st, and be encouraged to steal 80+ bases, which he could do.