Cashman denies $54M+ offer to Chapman

2011 Draft: Potential Signability Players
2011 Season Preview: Phil Hughes

Update by Joe (3/9/11 10:44 a.m.): According to Buster Olney, Brian Cashman denies having made an offer to Chapman. “We never made an offer… Never.” So there’s that.

Original Post (3/8/11 10:01 p.m.): From the head explodes department, Melissa Segura reports that the Yankees offered Cuban flamethrower Aroldis Chapman a contract “valued at more than $54 million” before he signed with the Reds last January. Holy crap. The info comes courtesy of a Florida law suit filed against Chapman’s representatives, the Hendricks Brothers and employee Carlos Thompson Rodney Fernandez. Chapman eventually signed a six-year deal worth just over $30M with Cincinnati.

The Yankees wined and dined the southpaw during the 2009 ALCS, though we heard they were out of the running a few days before he signed his contract. If true, well, we certainly can’t say the Yankees didn’t try. I have a feeling there’s (a lot) more to this story though.

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2011 Draft: Potential Signability Players
2011 Season Preview: Phil Hughes
  • squishy jello person

    o-o

  • http://www.twitter.com/CaptainRaf CaptainRaf

    !!!! wowzers

  • Moe

    and why would chapman leave 24 mill on the table?

  • Plank

    Who filed the lawsuit?

    Is there a chance Chapman becomes a FA if there was illegal dealings going on?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Apparently Kendry Morales. Thompson was stealing money from him.

      • Plank

        I hope this story gets awesomer and awesomer every day. This could be a fun one to follow.

      • ZZ

        The suit was filed by Thompson. The Morales thing is a completely separate case.

      • Plank

        Careful how you phrase things. You ARE a journalist.

    • Avi

      I doubt it. But if the players union gets involved as they should ya never know.
      I think Chapman gets a $100M contract as a free agent today.

      • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

        No he doesn’t.

        • Avi

          You agree he def gets more than $30M?

          • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

            There’s a wide gap between 30m and 100m.

            • Plank

              I bet he could easily get 8/$100 or maybe more. He’s really young and he throws a baseball much faster than anyone ever has on Planet Earth.

              • DanMizer

                He hasn’t proved much at all and nobody knows if he can be a starting pitcher.
                there is a reason why he is their setup man, just like there is a reason Joba is in our bullpen..

                100 million??? thats absurd.

                If he is unbelievable why aren’t the Reds stretching him out (like texas with feliz) and putting him in their rotation?
                we’ve all read several stories about what is more valuable between sp/cl and a top starter is harder to find. closers fall from the trees… i.e. Ardsma.. and a million of other starters who failed(Rivera anyone?)

                this is why im baffled why top prospects are in the majors as setup men, bullpen arms when they do not have the chance to stretch out-get their innings in and eventually start in a yr or 2(Sales/Feliz/Chapman)

                • DanMizer

                  why draft a Sales/Feliz with a top pick as a starter when your going to put them in the bullpen to pitch a few innings here and there a week..

                  i really don’t get it.

                  keep them in the minors.. get their innings in.. stretch them out and prep them for 200 inning seasons and bring them up.. patience is the key.

                  • The Big City of Dreams

                    The key word there is patience. Those teams have these prized arms and instead of shutting them down at season’s end they figure why not bring them up and get their feet wet in the pen. Therefore, the big league club can get a boost from a high end arm. The problem is the pitcher gets pigeon holed into a role before failing as a starter.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    There is a REALLY long history of putting young starting pitchers in the bullpen. It goes back to at least Steve Carlton and Nolan Ryan, if not before that. There is a long list of pitchers who spent a season or more in the bullpen before become very successful MLB starters.

                    This is not a new phenomenon and there is no evidence that pitching in relief negatively impacts a pitcher’s ability to become a successful starter.

                    With someone like Feliz it was a way to get him major league experience and get major league value out of him before the Rangers felt he was ready to start in the majors. With a guy like Sale there are serious questions about whether he actually can ever start in MLB. He was a high probability draft pick and the Sox are getting immediate value out of him. The vast majority of even 1st round picks never provide any value whatsoever to their MLB clubs. It’s something like moving Harper off C to get him up quicker even though he’d potentially have more value at C than in RF.

                • Plank

                  The Red Sox spent over 100M on Dice-K. Granted, that was a bad contract, but the idea of another contract like that going to a player again isn’t absurd. Especially when the player in question is the real version of Sidd Finch.

                  The likelihood is higher too, because he will be a true free agent. For DiceK, the Red Sox were the only team he could talk to.

                  Players don’t become FAs at 23. If they do, they will get monster contracts.

                  • DanMizer

                    Ya Dice K was the top starter in japan for years.

                    Chapman has done what?

                    Atleast Japan is considered “pro ball”

                    and they find a way to win the world classic every time.

                    • Plank

                      Are you arguing that the DiceK contract made sense, or that he is better than Chapman? Both? I don’t quite understand where you’re coming from.

                      Cuba has done pretty well in the WBC, too.

                    • DanMizer

                      All I am saying is that Dice K was a proven SP for years in Japan, and scouts praised the Japanese Pitcher. His contract was still a lot but the Red Sox had more of a reason(scouts/stats/consistency in a pro-league) to give him a big contract.

                      Chapman can’t compare to Dice K.. he doesn’t have the stats nor history that Dice K had prior to the Majors.

                    • DanMizer

                      i was responding to your post comparing Dice K’s contract to what you perceive Chapman’s contract to be if he was a F.A.

                      its all opinions and nobody is truly right on this subject.

                      I just think 100 million for a pitcher who hasn’t proved anything at the MLB level would be insane.

                    • Plank

                      My point is that the reason Chapman will get so much money is BECAUSE he is young. If he played in Cuba (or Japan, or USA) until he was 30 and dominated, he wouldn’t be worth as much as he is now. He’s young, and amazing. Those players don’t become free agents ever.

                      He was signed as a prospect so he got amazing prospect money. Now he may be a FA again, and he has graduated from hyped prospect to a tweener between prospect and legitimate stud pitcher who throws harder than anyone could have imagined.

                    • Tha R

                      Like Cuba isn`t

            • Avi

              Yes of course. I think it’s pretty certain he’d get more now than he did is what I’m trying to get at.

              • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

                Well that’s not what you said. He’d get more than 30m, probably more than 50m, but not 80-100.

      • YankeesJunkie

        Relievers don’t 100 million dollars.

        • Avi

          Cincy pitching him out of the pen doesn’t make him a reliever.

          • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

            5 BB/9 in AAA doesn’t make him a lock to be a starter either.

            • Plank

              I’d say he’s as big a lock as any 23 year old can be.

              • http://www.twitter.com/deanezag Zack

                Except we’re not talking about giving those other 23 year olds 70, 80, 90, $100m. You have to be an absolute lock for the rotation when you’re talking about that type of money.

                • CP

                  Felix Hernandez got 5/$78M as a 23 year old and he wasn’t even a free agent.

                  • S

                    You kind of made Zack’s point. Felix is a lock for the rotation.

                  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joe Pawlikowski

                    Serious? Felix had already thrown 900 MLB innings to a 3.45 ERA when he signed that contract.

                    • Plank

                      He signed at 23, with his numbers 5/78. If he was a FA, he would have gotten 200M.

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

        I think Chapman gets a $100M contract as a free agent today.

        No. That is insane.

        • Avi

          All it takes is two big market teams to value him at $70M and he ends up with $100M when they’re done outbidding each other. There are zero good free agent starters this winter. The Yanks spent $20M last year on Javier Vazquez, Nick Johnson Randy winn and Chan Ho Park. Would paying Chapman $18M be the worst thing?
          I don’t think $100M is far fetched at all.

          • Sayid J.

            Except that if two big market teams were to value him at 70, they likely start the bidding at 55 or 60. I don’t think any teams would be willing to over pay by nearly 50% of what they feel his true value is.

            • Avi

              It happens all the time. I bet the Yanks valued Cliff Lee at $80M for four years or $100M for 5. They ended up offering him 7 years at about $160M because they had a need and another team was in the neighborhood.

              • Ted Nelson

                The Yankees valued one of the best pitchers in baseball at $80 million and they value a relief pitcher who has not proven that he can start in the big leagues at $70 million? You honestly see no problem with your logic there?

          • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

            He has 13.1 professional innings and he’s looked at as pretty risky too, I think, because of how hard he throws.

            JGS pointed out to me that the big money in his contract is in the signing bonus and not the years, but it doesn’t seem at all smart to spend $100M on that, even if you consider him a starter. Maybe it’s just me. $50M probably isn’t out of the question but $100M is beyond the pale, really.

            • CP

              Considering the Yankees already (reportedly) offered him $54M, then of course $50M is not out of the question. In fact, that would probably be the floor.

  • Jamal G.

    Jay Gordon wondered if the up-front money was greater in the Reds’ offer, and I was wondering the same. That would seem like a decent reason for why Chapman is now in Cincy.

  • bonestock94

    This is crazy, wtf. To me this reaks of awful advice from his agent. Total speculation though.

    • Mister Delaware

      Or Cincinnati being complicit. Which could get real messy.

  • Plank

    My prediction:

    This story will get big, and merge with this one:

    http://baseballmusings.com/?p=64930

    • Plank

      By the way, I think every team pulls BS like this down there, not just the Yankees.

  • jaremy

    Circle me Phil Rizzuto

  • AndrewYF

    I hope this means he gets to opt out of his contract, and sign with the Mets, who can pair him with Mejia to be the best 8th-inning tandem in the NL East.

  • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

    The dude left Cuba for a better life not to fucking stick it the the Yankees. I don’t buy this.

  • Avi

    I’ve been extra pissed at Cashman for losing out on Halladay, Oswalt, Haren and Chapman and instead getting Javier Vazquez. It was so clearly a bad move to me at the time. This story makes me feel a little better.

    • AndrewYF

      The Yankees would have had to trade Montero, Banuelos, and (Austin) Jackson to get Halladay. That would leave them up one star pitcher, but down an outfielder and down two projected long-term pieces of the team. No thanks.

      For Oswalt and Haren, the Yankees clearly just didn’t have what the other teams were looking for. With both, they didn’t have a somewhat established, young, cheap 4th starter. With Oswalt, they didn’t have a high-upside minor league centerfielder like Anthony Gose.

      Haren seems to be the most objectionable, but even then it’s hard to get too upset (remember, guys like Betances and Banuelos weren’t established top prospects at the time, and it’s likely they would have had to be included along with Joba and whoever else Arizona was asking for. Something no one but Arizona and the Yankees no for sure). Still, it looks like Arizona fucked that one up real good. Like Seattle and Cliff Lee, you can’t manage other teams’ incompetence.

    • nsalem

      Yes it was all Cashman’s fault. 110% Absolutely no chance that the other teams were looking to unfairly extract more from the Yankees and Cashman refused to play that game.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

      Halladay = no Montero
      Haren = Dumbass Diamondbacks
      Oswalt = I forget the package but I’ll live with the farm we have now

      • Avi

        Guys, I realize there have been stories written as to why the Yanks weren’t able to get each of these pitchers. But is it at least possible that poor judgement by Cashman (and others in the front office) had to do with it?

        • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

          I can see it possibly with Haren but he did the right thing with Halladay. I was on a plane dying during the Oswalt talks so I can’t give an opinion on that.

          • Avi

            Dying about the talks or were you not well?

            • http://twitter.com/#!/iiKeane JobaWockeeZ

              Dying from boredom that I was on a plane during the deadline.

              • Avi

                I see.

        • nsalem

          No, I think he been quite shrewd. That’s just my opinion. We will have a better idea who is right in a couple of years. For the sake of the team I hope Cashman is.

        • Mister Delaware

          Lee is still the only SP trade option where Cashman really pissed me off simply because I didn’t want to lose Montero. If what we know is the full story (doubtful), I’d add Haren because Joba and/or Nova for Haren would have been a really nice deal. Oswalt and Halladay I was fine on the passes.

        • nsalem

          Other FO’s hate the way we do business. We have four of the top five paid players in the game. They want more from the Yankees on any dealings they may have with the Yankess, because they have seen us overpay in the past and it’s in their best interests to wait us out so they can maybe benefit from what WAS our must win every year attitude. If we had agreed to trade Joba and Nova for Haren the DBacks most likely rotely asked for another piece. It happened with Lee last July and probably happens all of the time. Every move Cashman makes will not prove to be the perfect one. No one can do that. As he planned he has delivered a top tier farm system. We should applaud his thoughtful approach to long term planning rather than look to be critical of individual moves that may have not worked out for us in the short term. I’m happy with the team we have this year and am even more optimistic for the future.

          • Ted Nelson

            That’s total speculation. My speculation is that it’s not true that other teams are hurting their own competitiveness by accepting lesser deals out of spite for the Yankees. Especially small market teams whose profitability hinges on revenue sharing from the Yankees or a team like the Diamondbacks who are in the NL West and wouldn’t have to face the Yankees till the WS. If all other teams hated the way the Yankees do business they’d make serious changes to the CBA.

            I think it’s a whole lot more likely that Yankees fans like us overvalue our own players and prospects relative to how they’re valued around the league. We hear a name like Skaggs or Gose and it’s just some random minor leaguer with a low chance of ever making it in the big leagues… but we hear a name like Banuelos or Sanchez and it’s a can’t miss future HOFer that the Yankees should not be asked to include in any trade package…

            “If we had agreed to trade Joba and Nova for Haren the DBacks most likely rotely asked for another piece.”

            To me Joba and Nova is not a better package than what the DBacks got, and certainly wasn’t at the time of the trade before Joba finished strong and Nova had some limited MLB success. With Joba you either have to believe he can become a successful starter he’s never been, or value him as a top reliever. Most people on this very site have little use for relievers, so why should the DBacks be enamored with them? With Saunders you know you’ll get 200-ish innings of a lefty starter, even though you also know they won’t be that good. Nova is a borderline rotation prospect. We all like him and believe in him, but this is a guy with a MiLB ERA close to 4 who hadn’t had a WHIP below 1.4 for 3 seasons prior to 2010.
            The DBacks got a proven mediocre lefty starter as well as 2 young lefty starter prospects who could become top prospects down the road. Skaggs has already cracked the top 100 on BA and a lot of other lists after his 18 year old season. Corbin is not thought of as highly, but he had a lot of success in A-ball at 20. So… yeah, the DBacks probably asked for more than Joba and Nova and had every right to. If they valued lefty starters that highly, I’m sure they were asking for Banuelos. Just because they preferred the Angels’ package, doesn’t mean they hate the Yankees.

      • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

        did we even pursue Oswalt?

  • http://www.twitter.com/tomzig Tom Zig

    I miss mryankee

  • pete

    not buying it. at all.

  • FIPster Doofus

    A Cuban defector’s going to leave $24 million on the table? Yeah … no.

    • Plank

      I think the contention is that the bigger offer wasn’t presented to him or that it was dismissed before he could accept it.

    • nsalem

      He just had this overwhelming desire to live in Cincinatti

      • http://youcantpredictbaseball.wordpress.com/ bexarama

        He loves him some chili dogs

        • http://kierstenschmidt.com Kiersten

          The Beast is a pretty sick roller coaster.

        • Cult of Basebaal

          Ah, that’s it!

          He’s from Cuba, he obviously doesn’t know that Skyline isn’t fit to serve to dogs.

          • extremely gasius

            Skyline is deliscous

  • ZZ

    Thompson is the plaintiff, not a defendant.

  • David Brown

    Agents sometimes have agendas that are not always in the player’s best interest. Mike Torrez swears to this day, that in 1977, his agent lied to him, because he wanted him to sign with Boston, not go back to New York. Mario Lemieux’s lawyer, did not want him signing with the Penguins. Only because Lemieux wanted to go to Pittsburgh, did they get him signed, and saved the franchise. Scott Boras, is another example of this. ” I don’t want to be “Scott Boras client.” I want to be Mark Teixeira, baseball player, helping this team win championships.” (Mark Teixeira). That is a very telling quote from someone who was extremely close to Boras (So close, he stayed in Boras’s house when he played for the Angels). Based on the past, and the present (Agent sponsored “Nike Camps” etc), the Chapman story should surprise no one.

    • Urban

      BTW I wonder if Teixeira dumping Boras has anything to do with Albert Pujols.

      I can see Boras encouraging Teixeira to make it known he’d be open to a trade as a way to get more money, a part of which would end up in Boras’ pocket. Teixeira, seeing how the Pujols negotiations might play out in the media and how he might get dragged into it, decided to dump Boras to end that discussion before it really started.

  • Ken

    Holy crap. If this is true, the players union must have heard something about this and should have done something about it

  • Reggie C.

    Needs more details. If the Yankees offer indeed turned out more than $20 million over what the Reds paid, what kind of back-room promises were made bw Chapman’s people and the Reds thwarting the Yankees bid?

    Its insane to think Chapman and his family would walk away from a Yankees bid of that magnitude.

  • Andy in NYC

    Is this the lawsuit by the agent who helped him defect, and establish residency in a European country so he’d be a free agent, then got dumped by Chapman in favor of the big guns? NO? So this is the third Chapman lawsuit?? Yikes…

  • Urban

    There is no way someone fleeing Cuba to pitch in the Major Leagues would take $30 million to pitch for the Reds as opposed to $54 million to pitch for the Yankees.

    There is something seriously wrong/missing from this story.

  • NJYankeeFan

    If Chapman wasn’t presented the Yankee offer, you’d think the Yankees would have thought something was fishy after he signed for $24 million less than they offered and would have gone to Bud Selig.

  • Richard Deegan

    I seem to recall at the time that the Yanks’ offer was a minor league contract (no guarantee of hitting majors) with much less up front cash. The total contract had a big number when you figure the extra years (10-12) and the higher annual pay IF and when he hit the majors. If he stayed in the minors and Monicaed or Igawaed, there’s no way he would have wound up with $54 from the Yanks.
    The Reds offered a ML contract with the same or higher present value, and more guaranteed.

  • http://www.yankees.com theDiablo

    B/s…. Aroldis Chapman with $54MM could be President of Cuba. Too good to be true… heheheeeheh

  • http://www.yankees.com theDiablo

    ….oh, btw….After this news, Chapman is going to fire his agent… by stupid… heh eheeh ehe ehhh

  • http://twitter.com/cephster Ross in Jersey

    Now Cashman is denying the Yankees ever made an offer, I see no reason for him to lie about it. This is one weird story.

  • Fair Weather Freddy

    Knew Cashman would deny it. If there was any truth to this, Yanks would have taken action long before this.