Report: Yankees are “not getting” Yu Darvish

by 160 Comments

On Joy and the Expectation to Win
Open Thread: Jason Giambi

Via Marc Carig, the Yankees are “not getting” right-hander Yu Darvish according to a person close to the situation. The team’s last second bid will not be higher than those submitted by the Rangers and Blue Jays, the presumed favorites. Backing up an earlier report, Carig’s source says the winning bid is a “ridiculous number.”

Once all this Darvish stuff becomes official on Tuesday, the Yankees will likely turn their attention to short-term fixes. Yesterday’s Mat Latos trade shows that the price for a young, high-end starter is still sky high, which makes someone like Hiroki Kuroda a much more likely target. The pitching search will almost certainly stretch out into January, just because the hot stove tends to die down around the holidays.

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On Joy and the Expectation to Win
Open Thread: Jason Giambi
  • Leg-End

    Kuroda, get it done.

  • Plank

    I’m more bummed about this than Cliff Lee.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

      Really? I was way, way more bummed about them not getting Lee.

      • Plank

        I knew Lee would get the monster contract he did and still think he’s gonna be an albatross in 3 years.

        Darvish I’ve been following for years since I saw him in 2007. I was in Fukuoka for a few days and decided to go to a game. All the crowd kept saying Dabisha You all excitedly to me. I had no idea what they were talking about. I figured it out when he started pitching. I’m not good enough of a scout to tell a good pitcher from bad from the grandstand but the crowd was into and his numbers speak for themselves. So yeah, I’m more bummed about not getting Dabisha You.

        • RetroRob

          Understood, although the chances of Darvish achieving anywhere near the success as Lee in MLB are quite small, I’d estimate in the low single digits.

          I do think he can pitch in MLB and he would have been a nice addition to the Yankees, but I don’t expect greatness.

          • Plank

            It’s not a question of if he can recreate Lee’s career, it’s a question of if his next 5 years (Ages 33-37) will be better than Lee’s next 5(Ages 25-29).

            Don’t get me wrong, I wanted Lee too, but not as much as Darvish.

            • Plank

              Those ages are obviously reversed.

        • Rookie

          I’m with you, Plank. And because the Yankees were the team with the most to save by staying under the luxury tax threshold, Darvish would have cost them the least.

          I’ve been very impressed by the Yankees decision making on pitching beginning in 2011 and Cashman’s judgement in in general beginning last year, too. So he’s probably right and we’re probably wrong. But based on all the evidence that I see, it looks to me like Darvish is going to be a beast.

          So I’m bummed, too — and more bummed (1) because they reached for Lee, but they didn’t really try for Darvish. And (2) Lee was about to enter his declining years and Darvish should be in the early stages of his prime years.

      • Gonzo

        Not getting Lee hurt me. I was imagining that rotation with CC and Lee up until he inked with the Phils.

    • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

      The wonders of commenter hype.

      • Plank

        Huh?

        • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

          The internet zeitgeist and the simple fact that he’s an completely unproven MLB commodity are very much at odds with each other.

          • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

            That.

  • Mike c

    $125M for a pitcher who’s never played in MLB. no thanks

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

      I have no doubt Cashman will get killed by some folks for making a perfectly reasonable decision. The reality is that no matter how much scouting you do, nobody knows how he’s going to react when he gets here. 125M is a number I pay for proven commodity, not a speculative gamble.

  • Nick87

    Another day report another. I’ve read so many different reports about Darvish over there last 5 days, think I’m just going to wait till Tuesday.

    • Nick87

      and I can’t type. I wish you could edit posts.

  • Overrated Packers

    Wei-yin chen or Hiroki Kuroda. I really miss having an asian player on the team

    • Leg-End

      Nakajima cometh.

    • http://fendersonandhampton.com Cuso

      you still have Swisher

  • CJ

    Kuroda, AJ, Garcia $32 million worth of intimidating mound presence in the AL. Joke. Figure it out Cashman, this won’t work.

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

      Especially since they won 97 games last year with even less pitching headed into camp.

  • mac1

    If true, I’m not that disappointed, to throw $100 mil at Yu is a big gamble. I’d like to get a look at Noesi as well. Sign a Kuroda or Colon and hope they get you to July.

    • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

      Here here.

  • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

    The best ace is the one you develop yourself. Time to stop shooting for the moon with trade proposals and make it work with the best organization in professional sports.

    • CJ

      I agree like Price, Hellickson and Matt Moore. They will be a problem for the Yanks for years

      • Ted Nelson

        Dude you ever have a single positive thought about the Yankees?

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Will the Yankees be willing to go through the growing pains of developing?

      • Tom

        That really is the key….

        While people will probably be screaming to get Banuelos and Betances up here, they’ve thrown ~130 inning last year and need to be built up from purely an innings perspective – get them to 150-160 where next season (2013) you don’t have to play the ridiculous innings limit game.

        Not only do the Yankees need to have patience at the MLB level, they need to rethink what seems like a promote them as fast as possible mentality (for the top prospects)… both of the B’s need work on secondary stuff and I really hope they spend a year in the minors and aren’t bullpen guys later in the year where they can learn how to devolve into 2 pitch pitchers and think they can just blow away people and not worry about throwing 20-25 pitchers in an inning.

        • The Big City of Dreams

          Let’s hope that doesn’t happen but we have seen them out high touted prospects in the pen to sure up the bp when there is a need. Would it surprise anyone is Manny is called up at some point to be the primary or 2nd loogy in the pen

  • CJ

    submits a “ridiculous number” watch it will be less than the ridiculous number he submitted for the ridiculous Igawa. I’m getting the impression Cashman may be making “ridiculous offers” to other GM’s in trade offers for Gio, Danks, Garza et al.

    • Zack D

      Uh the report is that a ridiculous number won the bid – not that Yanekes submitted a ridiculous number

      • Mick

        You can’t use logic and facts with CJ. It’s like trying to teach a rock to swim.

  • Reggie C.

    I guessed as much so Carig’s report isn’t jarring. Darvish is probably a decent bet to be above avg immediately, but it’ll be interesting to see how Darvish adjusts to the wear and tear of 162 game travel. I wonder if we’ll ever know how much the yanks bid.

    I’d still want Cashman to pursue Cespedes. Offer Cespedes a 30 million, 6 year ML deal and get this guy stateside.

    • Jake

      The Carig report also says the Yanks figure to be out on Cespedes.

      • Reggie C.

        Who knows…

        Ive seen reports that the Yanks are frontrunners in the Cespedes stakes.

        • Joey H.

          any irony that the same source is saying both?

        • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

          Reggie, I love ya but you can’t cherry pick like that.

  • Nathan

    The Yankees will need to figure something out with:

    a) young pitchers getting locked up by their drafting teams (Weaver)
    b) Yankees inability to develop their own prospects / over-valuing their prospects
    c) reluctance to trade prospects for proven pitching (Santana/Halladay/Haren)
    d) reluctance to pay for quality pitching when it does become available (Wilson/Darvish)

    • Jake

      I tend to agree. I have a hard time understanding what the Yankees strategy is at this point. I don’t get the hand-wringing about overpaying for Darvish. The Yankees are overpaying Arod, Tex, Jeter, CC, Soriano, Burnett and, arguably, Mo. This team’s greatest advantage has always been its ability to overpay to get the best players. If they want to start paying market price, that’s fine, but it negates their competitive edge.

      I love that the Yankees are more committed to developing within, but let’s not pretend they draft or develop talent the way clubs like the Rays do.

      • Plank

        True.

        Getting a FA to sign with you (if they are going to the best contract) will mean every FA signs a deal that literally no other team was willing to offer. Every free agent is overpaid in that sense.

        The idea of paying market value for players means not getting most of them to sign with you.

      • Jamey

        not to mention the new CBA’s effect on the place they DO get most of their young talent from, international free agency. I want to have as much faith in Banuelos, Betances, etc as well, but we’re also just a couple of years removed from Joba, Hughes, Kennedy which I’d have to say came with way more excitement. Overpaying is the business model, unfortunately, when you have the place in MLB that The Yankees do.

        I agree with something mentioned earlier, that Darvish’s lack of MLB experience is really no different than drafting a Strasburg. I would think if Cashman were in a position where he could bid 40-50 million for the rights to negotiate with the consensus #1 SP in the draft, he’d jump on the chance. So while he’s older than a draft pick, I look at him like the chance to just flat out sign a #1 prospect. I know the “its not your money” argument always shows up, but if Igawa was worthy of a 26 million bid, Darvish was worthy of something in the 40-50 range.

        • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

          Overall I agree with one exception. Igawa wasn’t worth a ¢26 bid, to say nothing of a $26 million bid. And that’s something we’ve learned the hard way and in some manner adjusted our bid for Darvish accordingly.

          • Plank

            where is the cent symbol on a keyboard? I think i don’t have one.

            • Rookie

              Plank,

              In answer to your question, the ¢ symbol on my keyboard is the $ sign while holding down the option key.

        • I am not the droids you’re looking for…

          And btw I know what you meant by that. But it jumped out at me nonetheless :)

        • Need Pitching

          with a draft pick, he would only be on the hook for the bonus though. With posting, it’s 50+ for the posting and then a huge contract on top of that for a total commitment over 100M

          Strasburg would never have commanded a 100M+ commitment coming out of college

      • Need Pitching

        the fact that they are overpaying so many players already (and Hal is keeping the budget in the 200-210 range) means Cashman can’t just keep overpaying guys and needs to be more value conscious – only paying big for likely sure things

    • Rich in NJ

      If they can’t begin to develop high-end starters, they will have trouble winning consistently going forward. It’s just that simple.

      • Nathan

        The Yankees have never really developed any high-end starters in recent years. The only one that I can think of is Andy Pettitte.

        All other successful Yankee pitchers of recent years such as Clemens, Mussina, Sabathia, and Wells were all through free agency or trades. I get that getting quality pitching through FA is harder thus necessitating the need to develop your own pitching prospects but there needs to be balance. When the chance to sign a game-changing pitcher comes up, the Yankees have got to be willing to use their advantage and pay up.

        People like to point out the “dynasty years” yet other than the core four, the other key contributors were signed as FAs or acquired.

        • Joey H.

          IPK?

          • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

            It doesn’t count when you do it in a hitters park in the NL West :)

          • The Big City of Dreams

            Credit for his turn around goes to the Dbacks IMO

            • crawdaddie

              No it doesn’t. IPK was injured which slowed his development here. He’s the same type of pitcher with Arizona as he was with the Yankees.

              • The Big City of Dreams

                I understand he was injured but when talking about pitchers they have developed I don’t think we should include Ian Kennedy.

        • nsalem

          They also tried it with Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, Jose Contreras, AJ Burnett and many others.
          The high end acquisitions frequently don’t work out either.

          • nsalem

            The Phillies won their ring with Hamels, Kendrick and Moyer but have failed to get back to the series with their 2 big time acquisitions.

            • Plank

              Are you saying the reason the Phillies didn’t win the last 3 WS is because they obtained Halladay and Lee?

              If not, what are you saying?

              • nsalem

                I’m saying that many WS are won by teams that don’t have the best pitchers. Which why I am not upset that we have missed out on certain big time acquisitions over the last couple of years. I agree with Cashman who is being very patient in cautious in trying to acquire this sort of talent.

                • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

                  The post season is so random, we should all get over the idea that there is a blueprint for October. It’s just another month of baseball, one that happens to be at the end of the year. I’ll bet that if the Pirates were playing the way they did last June in the month of October, they could have won it all.

                  • CMP

                    Don’t know about that.
                    The one great equalizer in sports is a dominant starting pitcher. Which ever team gets the best pitching usually wins.

                    • Plank

                      Which ever team gets the best pitching usually wins.

                      That statement is equally true to:

                      Whichever team gets the best hitting usually wins.

                    • Tom

                      +1 Plank

                      Whenever I hear pitching and defense wins in the postseason I try to suggest that pitching and offense also tends to do OK…

            • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

              And Brett Myers.

        • Plank

          Wang was a phenom for a few years, too. But I totally agree with your point.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike Axisa

            I wouldn’t go that far. He had two full, above-average seasons as a big league sinkerballer.

            • Plank

              So you think he’ll get a monument in the OF too then, huh?

              Yeah, phenom is a bit strong. I think saying his 2006 was above average doesn’t do him justice though.

            • CMP

              He had a 4.4 and 4.7 WAR seasons back to back (which placed in the top 15 starters for those 2 years) and was well on his way to another 4.5+ WAR season when he got injured so I think “above average” doesn’t do him justice .

              • Ted Nelson

                If you don’t strike out 10 per 9 Mike doesn’t notice you.

                • CMP

                  LOL.

                  Wang was not far off from being an ace for those 2 1/2 seasons regardless of how few guys he struck out.

                • CMP

                  Wang was not far off from being an ace for those 2 1/2 seasons regardless of how few guys he struck out.

                  • Ted Nelson

                    I agree.

        • Rich in NJ

          CBA subsequent to the “dynasty years” have leveled the playing field in terms of small revenue teams’ ability to keep quality starters longer, and now with spending caps on the draft and IFA, making it far more important to develop in-house quality starters.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            Can they develop them is the question?

          • Ted Nelson

            The dynasty years rotations featured Pettitte and a bunch of 30+ year olds… what are you talking about? Teams have never let their young stud SPs walk away en masse.

            Irabu was literally their only other full-time starter in his 20s in that run… and he was 29 and awful. Then Ted Lilly in 2001. The the Weaver experience.

            I don’t know where this notion comes from that the 90s Yankees benefited from young aces they got in free agency. All of those guys were over 30, many were traded for, and some were cast-offs.

      • CMP

        It’s starting to shape up that until at least 1 and more likely 2 out of the Nova, Noesi, Banuelos, Betances, Warren and Hughes group step up and become front end starters, number 28 won’t be coming anytime soon.

        Everyone points to 2012 when Hamels, Cain and Greinke are free agents but if teams are willing and able to outbid the Yankees for guys like Chapman, Darvish and Cespedes, the idea that the Yankees can flex their financial muscle and blow everyone out of the water doesn’t really fly in the post George era.

        • Need Pitching

          the only thing it really shows is that they are unwilling to do it for unproven players or players with question marks
          They just signed CC, I think the issue is more that all of the big contracts (and higher luxury tax rate) of the past have given them little flexibility to add big contracts
          When they added Tex, CC, and AJ after 2008 it was because they had a bunch of big contracts leave, freeing up space for big contracts within their budget
          the only big contracts off the books lately have been resigned (Mo, Jeter) or the money was replaced with higher salaries with other current players(Arbitration raises, multi-year contract raises)
          The Yankees still maintain the highest payroll, and by a very sizable amount

          • Rookie

            Is CC with his two knee operations and 280 or so pounds of weight really any less of a risk than a 26-year-old Darvish?

    • Peter R

      a) Agreed
      b) Not sure about this yet, they def have a pitcher problem but more than other teams? Or are we just to close to this situation?
      c) I am not sure about this one either. The Yanks always get treated poorly in trade the the asking team, always ask for the moon rather than give the Yanks a fair deal. No thanks.
      d) Completely disagree as evidenced by CC’s two deals (or one deal and extension) and AJ Burnet, who you should remember was considered a quality pitcher with AL East experience when they signed him. I cant blame them for not gambling with Darvish or Wilson this off-season. Neither are sure things by any stretch of the imagination.

    • Ted Nelson

      Are you really serious?

      a) Teams have always locked up their best young players, especially teams in huge markets like the Angels.
      b) Yeah… Cano and Gardner SUCK! Damn Yankees!
      c) There’s a reasonable price and unreasonable price for anyone in a trade. You really regret not trading for Santana only to have him on the DL? Yankees might not land CC if they land Johan. Rumors were that Halladay wasn’t really available to the Yankees. Haren probably would have cost Joba, Manny, plus.
      D) They offered Wilson a fat deal and we don’t know what they bid for Darvish.

      Not one of those resonates with me as true.

      • nedro

        D) wut

    • ajra21

      a) & b) agreed. this is a problem. they MUST start developing their own very good pitchers BUT we must give them the time to do so. we are often the reason that our young starters don’t produce because we aren’t prepared to give them three years in the rotation to develop. after two months, we’re calling for everyones’ head.

      c) diagree with two of your examples. not getting santana was one of the best moves ever by cashman. everyone should know this by now. halladay was never gonna get to us because the jays were asking for the world to trade him within the division. the haren one seems to be a mistake but i’m still not sure we got the whole story on that one.

      d) wilson is not a quality pitcher. darvish is good but totally untested. i suspect he’ll be good and kill us twice/thrice a year just to piss us off. we’ll give him a big FA contract when his deal ends with the jays/rangers because he pitched well against the AL east and watch him suck in pinstripes.

  • Joey H.

    Do we put any stock into the notion that the Blue Jays were finalists in the Latos Sweepstakes? Or can we just say they’re probably going all out and are tired of third and forth place finishes?

  • BigDavey88

    DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.

    • Peter R

      DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!’ed

  • Avi

    I hope and pray this report is true.

  • Gonzo

    Remember when we heard that they might release the winning bid info the same night bidding ended?

    I never had my hopes up. Not a big whoop for me.

  • CMP

    I can’t decide who I hope wins the Darvish derby now that the Yankees appear out of it.

    It’s wouldn’t be too fun playing Toronto in a series with Romero, Morrow and Darvish pitching though Texas could be tremendous adding Darvish to young arms like Holland, Ogando, Harrison especially now that they finally smartened up and put Feliz into the rotation.

    • mbonzo

      I really don’t think the Rangers would have such a big posting fee when they could have just resigned CJ for less.

      • CMP

        I read somewhere that they’re ready to pull the trigger on Gio Gonzalez if they miss out on Darvish so maybe they made a “conservative” offer on the post.

  • Paul VuvuZuvella

    Was hoping for Yuletide greetings… Bah Humbug.

  • Jose M. Vazquez..

    So we lose out on Darvish. It is not the end of the world. As much as I wanted Yu we can still win the East with the staff we have. You have to trust in Hughes coming back, in Nova, CC is a sure thing, Garcia will win at least 10 games. The only doubt is with AJ, but if he can’t do the job, Noesi can do it. At mid season, if one or both of the Bs are ready, they can be brought up too to replace any of the previously mentioned who are injured or have not done as expected. I would not count too much on getting good in the 2013 FA market.

    • Jose M. Vazquez..

      on getting anything good in the 2013 FA market.

  • AaronGuielWithASmile

    Good, I want no part of Darvish for $120 million. I’d way rather have Kuroda — who we know can pitch effectively in the big leagues — for a one or two year commitment, and save our money to go after one of the big fish next offseason.

    • Rookie

      They could have bid more aggressively for Darvish AND tried to sign Kuroda. There’s no guarantee they get either one and no good reason why they should have been unhappy to have BOTH.

  • http://bleedingyankeeblue.com Jesse

    Plan for the rest of the off-season

    1. Sign Kuroda
    2. Sign Cespedes
    3. Figure out bench situation
    4. ???
    5. Profit

    • Apple

      Allegedly, the team is out on Cespedes too.

      • AaronGuielWithASmile

        That’s not surprising, we just don’t have anywhere for him to play. I dunno why he’d want to be our 4th outfielder when he could start immediately for so many teams.

      • mustang

        True and the idea of signing a 36 year old career NL pitcher doesn’t exactly give me a giant boost of confidence in this rotation.

      • Dalelama

        If that is the case it will be another early postseason exit. .

  • mustang

    I think Nathan and Jake above make excellent points. I just don’t understand the direction that Cashman is going, but there is a lot of time until spring training so lets wait and see.

    • Ted Nelson

      You don’t understand patience and prudent investing?

      • mustang

        “but there is a lot of time until spring training so lets wait and see.”

        And your having trouble with reading so I guess we are even.

        Seriously the big chips (Danks and Gio) haven’t move yet so I’m holding judgment until then but I’m not going to dance a jig about going after Kuroda.

        • mustang
        • Ted Nelson

          I’m not talking about being patient until he makes a move. I’m talking about being patient and not making a move rather than making the wrong move.

          • mustang

            Sometimes making no moves IS the wrong move.

            • mustang

              And all I said Is that I don’t understand his direction by the information that I seen. However, like you said below he knows more then I do so maybe when the smoke clears they might end up with the starting pitching that they need.

  • Dino Velvet

    Where the hell did Toronto get all the money?

    Just 2 winters ago they traded away Doc Halladay because they were broke

    • JohnnyC

      With the Angels taking on all of Vernon Wells’ contract, that and Halladay’s money gives them $35 million to work with. That’s part of it.

    • JP

      Jays fan reading your blog here. (Fun read, by the way. You guys are great fans).

      The Jays are owned by Rogers Communications. Might be the richest owners in MLB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Communications)

      They just haven’t spent up to now. (15 years of being behind you guys and the BoSox – attendance struggles – owners get cheap I guess).

      Maybe they’re opening their wallets now though. TO is the biggest market outside of NY, CHI and LA in MLB. Should be able to support big payroll with this ownership if the team competes. Would be nice to challenge you guys a bit after 18 years of nothin up here!

    • JP

      Also – Halladay was traded because he wouldn’t agree to an extension. But apparently it had nothing to do with money. He just didn’t think he was going to be able to win in TO in his prime, is the speculation. Don’t really blame him. Things looked pretty bleak at the time.

      • The Big City of Dreams

        How much did you enjoy seeing him pitch every five days?

        • JP

          He was such a pleasure to watch. Hard nosed, no nonsense. So efficient. Amazing pitcher. People still love him here.

          Such a shame that he never really pitched a ‘meaningful’ game as a Jay. No playoff races, nothing.

          Still, was a real pleasure.

          • The Big City of Dreams

            I’m sure it was man. I always loved watching Doc pitch along as it wasn’t against the Yankees. :). One of the best pitchers of this generation. Congrats to you guys…..you’re building something good up there.

            • JP

              Oh man, hope so!

              Went on a trip to NYC this past year. Saw a game at Yankee Stadium in the bleachers for the first time. The building, the passionate fans – unreal! Had an incredible time. Marked it off the bucket list!

              • The Big City of Dreams

                Glad you had a good time at the stadium. Hopefully I can make it to a game in the next yr or so.

                AA has the org. on the right track. It will be interesting to see how your players continue to develop.

  • MD

    I would be so disappointed if we go into next season with the same rotation.
    I hope I’m wrong, but i don’t like the way the owners are taking the team.

    I miss George

    • Ted Nelson

      The 90s dynasty teams were built when George was suspended, and when he came back he tried to trade pretty much the entire core 4…

  • CJ

    Banuelos, Williams romine for Gonzalez? Does that get it done? A’s holding out for montero or is cashman holding out to keep montero and banuelos? Banuelos=babushka on apple spell check lol

    • Ted Nelson

      According to you Cashman is still in a state of shock over the Angels. How is he going to make phone calls in a state of shock?

    • ajra21

      why on earth would we do that deal? for gio? no way.

  • Ted Nelson

    I’ll believe it when it’s official.

    • CJ

      Mr Ted, in less than 500 words, what moves would you like to see cashman make before opening day?

      • Ted Nelson

        Whatever moves he deems appropriate. He has access to WAY more information that I do, I assume he knows more (and his people know more) about baseball that I do, and I trust his decision making.

        I would be fine with no moves. It would take a real disaster for the Yankees not to be a serious playoff contender. The line-up should be top notch, and the pitching depth is strong enough that a solid rotation should emerge.

        One move… I’d say Kuroda. Then a 4th OF.

        Don’t want to see top prospects spent on questionable pitchers.

        • mustang

          “the pitching depth is strong enough that a solid rotation should emerge.”

          Please explain because it doesn’t seem like it would take very much going wrong for this rotation to turn out like 2008 and watching people like Sidney Ponson.

          • duderinough

            It is essentially the same rotation that was a top 3 staff 97 game division winner. I don’t understand why spoiled Yankee fans need to have these moves when it is obvious they are trying to develop their own pitchers and not blow money on the bombs they bought the last decade.

            • CMP

              I agree with the idea of giving their own farm grown starters a chance but they won 97 games and made the playoffs last year with a rotation that got near miraculous performances from Garcia and Colon so let’s not pretend that they have a rock solid rotation if they do nothing but stand pat.

            • Plank

              Everyone says that like it’s the truth. They lost Colon and his 164.1 IP of 111 ERA+ pitching. (Actual results (ERA) make more sense to use in this example) Yes, he probably played over his head and wouldn’t be a good bet to repeat it, but he was a big part of why they won 97 games last year and that production hasn’t been replaced.

            • mustang

              So you see Garcia doing the same, no sophomore jinx for Nova, Hughes returning to form and AJ getting together ok then.

              “spoiled Yankee fans” Please! There current rotation is far from being spoiled and it’s about correcting a weakness.

              It’s good to develop, but they shouldn’t overvalue prospects and the current rotation. There are 2 months and 1 day to spring training lets see what Santa Cashman has for us under the Christmas Palm tree in Florida.

              • duderinough

                I am not saying to stand pat but don’t make a move for the sake a making a move. Why resign Garcia for 4 million plus if you don’t think he can be a serviceable back end guy. Why can’t Hughes win 12 to 15 games and have contributions from the minors and take it to July instead of giving up too much now.

                • duderinough

                  and there are way too many spoiled fans complaining about the lack of moves. When we won in the 90’s we didn’t have big stars all over the field. Teams who trow money around like generally don’t win, except maybe the 09 yanks

    • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

      That too. Rumors can be so comically wrong sometimes.

  • sfly6844

    George Steinbrenner once used to go after every high ticket player (old, expensive or both) each year and went over a decade with no championships. He went to prison and Gene Micheal and co. shifted organization focus to drafting good talent (core four) , shrewd trades and at the right time signing the right piece to the puzzle free agent. Kudos to Cashman and Hal for getting back to this strategy that requires PATIENCE and right trade opportunities, not pissing major money on unproven ballplayers. Yankees have a pretty good amount of just about ripe fruit (prospects,like late 90’s) themselves that they need to find out if can contribute and be part of the next anticipated dynasty. They have Yankees pointed in right direction, it just takes more time then alot of fans are willing to give. Yanks can sign Darvish/Cespedes in 5 years anyway if they turn out to be the real deal off someone else risk take.

    • Jumpin’ Jack Swisher

      Other than prison, you got it right.

  • Bronx Byte

    It’s understandable that the Yankees would have to look like players for the services of Darvish but I’m happy they won’t be.
    Now Cashman will have his ducks in a row and fill out the roster and not have the shadow of Darvish looming over his shoulders.
    When the dust clears, the Yankees did the right thing.

    • Rookie

      If Darvish pitches four or five seasons of 200 innings at a 2-something ERA, that the Yankees did the right thing won’t be so clear to me.

      • duderinough

        Not going to happen

      • ROBTEN

        But if Darvish’s fastball cures cancer, then we all win.

  • sfly6844

    I stand corrected and thanks for pointing it out as suspended from baseball is what I meant to infer.

  • Frank

    This is not george’s Yankees. I like cashman a lot, but he’s been searching for pitching for 10 years it seems.

    • ROBTEN

      The image of “George” is becoming ridiculously romantic. If you were a Yankee fan in the 1980s you likely hated Steinbrenner and the ridiculous atmosphere he created around the team (20 managerial changes and 11 GM changes in just over 20 years). Do you remember that from 1982 through 1994 the Yankees didn’t once make the playoffs, much less the World Series? This was not all George’s fault, to be sure…I believe the Yankees won among the most games, if not the most, during that period, but could never win the division. However, it was primarily through trying to slug their way to the WS. I wish someone look back at the rotations “George” put together and tell us when this golden age of “George” and dominant pitching existed before we continue to hear what “George” would have done.

      • Plank

        People have been watching too many Yankeeographies.

      • http://www.yankeeanalysts.com/ Steve S.

        People forget that the team only started winning when George was out of the picture. The more involved he was, the stupider the decisions.

      • Marcus

        You are totally right. I remember hearing chants of “Steinbrenner sucks!” on TV when the Yankees were losing when I was a kid. I think this is what rebuilding looks like for the Yankees. We are very privileged.

      • ajra21

        i didn’t watch the yankees during the 80s but i agree. as important as goerge was, i firmly believe that without his medling, we’d be a lot closer to 30 WS by now. he was a big problem after we started winning in the late 90s. the best owner is the one that puts up but shuts up. if goegre were here now, we’d have jeter tied to a six year contract; CC would have been given another seven years; CJ would be a yankee til he was 40 and albert might be playing DH/left field for the next ten years.

  • sfly6844

    Any good gambler would bet HIS money against this happening.
    Yankees are correct to not exceed their “acceptable risk” comfort zone…IMHO.

  • sfly6844

    Frank, I agree, but Cash the last 5-6 years has been hedging his bets on drafting pitchers to try and fill the mid-relief to 3-5 slot starting pitcher role and sign or trade for the right 1-2 when they are available. That seems to be the pitch to his bosses I assume. If these kids don’t come thru in any way to sustain Yankees revenue , this will be Cashman’s last contract if not fired IMHO.

  • cranky

    CC/Kuroda/Nova/Danks/Hughes works just fine.

    • The Big City of Dreams

      Where does Aj and Garcia end up?

    • The Big City of Dreams

      What happened to Aj and Garcia?

  • Reg

    If you can’t pitch inside, you can’t pitch in the MLB. I say Darvish ends up with a 4.10 era his first year as he figures things out.

  • wow

    Well crap, at some point the FO has to take a risk on someone. How many stop-gaps is this team gonna go thru?

    • mustang

      Amen!

    • ajra21

      perhaps you aren’t one of those fans, but had cashman made some risky signings, many on here would by flipping out more than they are currently. he knows what he’s doing.

  • Buck

    I think the Yanks should have rolled the dice on Darvish. With the new CBA and their aging stars, their window of opportunity is closing fast.

    It seems that most Asian pitchers have about 2 yrs of success before the league catches up to them (Igawa being the exception, of course). If Darvish gave the Yanks 2-3 solid years, that would coincide with Jeter and Mo’s last years here (hoping Mo signs on for another 1-2 yrs).

    After CC, I have little confidence in AJ or Hughes at this point. And who knows if Nova is the real deal. I think “cheaping” out on Darvish will haunt the Yanks.

  • Brian

    If the posting fee was in excess of $50M as is reported, plus a 5 or 6 year commitment for another $60M, that’s a lot of dough to spend for 2-3 solid years.

    I was all for going after the guy, but I’m not privy to the Yanks scouting reports. We know they “can” afford the bid, but we don’t know their evaluation of Darvish.

    I think we should take comfort in the idea that Cash usually has a plan and sticks with it, if the Yanks wanted Darvish, they’d have gone all in.

    • Chad Gaudin the Friendly Ghost

      ^ This. If another team wants to punch themselves out burying >$120mm on a guy like this, I almost prefer that. I hope the Rangers do get him and he ends up ‘only’ being a number 2 guy.

      I see it almost like a blessing in disguise that someone else is willing to overpay for a guy. It’s one guy and a significant enough commitment not to take it lightly.

      Sign a guy like Kuroda, hold on to some youngsters, wait for the price to come down on a Danks or Gio, if they don’t just go into the season with what we have. I really think it will be enough.