Jul
02

Phillies have begun gauging trade interest in Cole Hamels

By

Via Jon Heyman, the Phillies have begun calling around to gauge trade interest in free agent-to-be Cole Hamels. Philadelphia went 9-19 in June and is 11 games out in the division, so a full blown sell-off could be coming. That said, Buster Olney reports that the asking price is very high, as in four prospects (including a third baseman and outfielder) with multiple Grade-A guys. The 2010 Cliff Lee and 2008 CC Sabathia trades are obvious comparisons here.

Hamels, 28, is having yet another stellar season — 3.08 ERA and 3.28 FIP — and would be an upgrade to any rotation in baseball, including New York’s. The hole created by Andy Pettitte‘s injury makes the left-hander even more of an obvious fit. As Joe and I mentioned on Friday’s podcast, the Yankees simply may not have the pieces to deal for Hamels, meaning high-end prospects at the upper levels of the minors. I can’t imagine the Phillies wouldn’t take a package headlined by a bunch of Low-A kids for their homegrown ace no matter how good they are.

Categories : Asides, Trade Deadline

111 Comments»

  1. Robinson Tilapia says:

    Cue 80 trade proposals by Dewayne is Wise.

  2. Will The Thrill says:

    I’m calling it. Rangers acquire Cole Hamels for Leonys Martin, Mike Olt, and Matt Harrison.

    • Pat D says:

      Seems like not enough. Matt Harrison isn’t really that good either.

      Wouldn’t the Phillies have to demand Profar?

      • Will The Thrill says:

        Olney said they were looking for third base and outfield help. A controllable third baseman and centerfielder makes sense to me. Profar is probably going to be ready in a year or two and they just signed Rollins to an extension. Plus I’m sure the Rangers will trade Andrus to accommodate Profar since Profar is superior to Andrus in every way.

        • Preston says:

          No prospect is superior to a guy who is well on his way to his second consecutive 4 WAR season. Profar is really good, and they probably won’t re-sign Andrus after 2014 (or trade him prior) and opt to have the cost controlled guy man the position. But I think it’s silly how dismissive everyone is of Andrus in favor of a guy at AA.

      • CC says:

        Really? To me, that seems like a lot. It’s a few month rental with no draft picks, I just don’t think the Phillies can get THAT much for him. I also think they kind of have to trade him. They have to win at a 104-win-season pace just to get to 88 wins and even with that there is no guarantee they get a WC. If they aren’t gonna resign him, which I think at this point looks like the case, trading him is probably in their best interest.

        • Will The Thrill says:

          People thought Matt LaPorta and Michael Brantley was a lot for CC Sabathia. Look how that turned out. Prospects are prospects and never sure things.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            No one is a sure thing, but Harrison isn’t a prospect. He a top 5 AL starter. It is a lot. I can’t say it won’t happen but it’s not cheap for a half season and maybe a mega-extension if they get that in place. (After Lee walked I can’t imagine they would trade all that without an extension.)

            It also takes away their leverage with Hamilton / leaves tem vulnerable if he walks.

            • Tcmiller30 says:

              Top 5 AL starter? I can think of 5 in the AL East I’d rather have. And that’s not counting obvious guys like Hernandez and weaver and verlander.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Was referring to 2012 performance and not the definitive guys Tcmiller30 would rather have metric. He’s 6th in fWAR in the AL.

                My point wan’t really what specific number he’s ranked, though, it was that he’s a proven MLB starter and not a prospect. I think Hamels is better, but when you consider contract status I’m not sure the difference is two good MLB ready prospects. I think Harrison has two more arb years.

  3. peter g. says:

    just for kicks… among what the Yankees have in the minors, what would it take to bring Cole to NY???

    • Will The Thrill says:

      The Phillies aren’t looking for a Gary Sanchez or Mason Williams type of prospect that they have to wait 3-4 years to reach the majors. They want guys who are going to make an impact next year or the year after.

  4. Nick says:

    The Jays, Rangers and the padres I feel like are the only teams that can make that deal. No way Padres make that deal though

  5. DJMEZZ says:

    I’d give Hughes, Phelps, Banuelos, Nunez, and for giggles Betances. Get it done Cashmoney

    • Steve (different one) says:

      It’s 15 starts.

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        And yet when Cliff Lee was about to be traded to be a Yankee it’s the greatest thing Cashman did.

        • Steve (different one) says:

          I’m not saying don’t make ANY trade for a rental, I’m saying I wouldn’t make THAT trade.

          • Steve (different one) says:

            Also, and I’m not sure why I’m responding to a straw man lumping everyone here together, when I distinctly remember this place being split right down the middle on the Lee trade, this is not analogous. At the time of the Lee non-trade, 1) there was draft pick compensation which is no longer and 2) the assumption was the Yanks would extend him. No one here would have thought it was the “greatest” if they thought Lee would walk for nothing at the end of the year. Since that is very possible with Hamels, it’s a different situation.

            Would I do the above trade with an extension? Maybe. For 15 starts? No way, because if he walks, you’ve eviscerated your major league pitching depth. They’d be royally f’ed.

  6. Jamey says:

    I doubt Hamels will require a new contract WITH trade & ball is in his court so teams demanding a contract window really don’t have much control so it could be a Sabathia/Brewers deal. Given that, I know the Cliff Lee comparisons will inevitably show but given the aging players on The Yankees roster I don’t know that they can afford to get Rangers’d (hey a GOOD Cliff Lee comparison) surrendering what would have to be their entire upper echelon group of prospects. It seems annoying to repeat, but Hamels makes more sense when he only costs money. If you’re going to be paying him the same amount anyway, might as well keep your prospects.

    Sabathia, Kiroda, Nova & Hughes can hold down the fort until Pettitte is back. If necessary a dependable SP can probably be acquired for cheaper than what Philly will rightfully want for Hamels.

  7. Murderers' Row Boat says:

    Any team that trades for Cole Hamels is getting a moron who can throw a baseball. You’ll also have to trade the farm system plus sign him to a $18+ million dollar deal. This trade is basically the kind the Yankees didn’t make for Johan, C.C., Ulbaldo, and a half dozen other players.

  8. Sweet Dick Willie says:

    The 2010 Cliff Lee and 2008 CC Sabathia trades are obvious comparisons here.

    Well, except for the fact that the acquiring team won’t receive a draft pick if he leaves.

    Not sure how much affect that will have, if any.

    • Voice of Reason says:

      Was about to say this. The effect it will have is that rentals become MUCH less valuable and the Phillies aren’t going to get as much as they (or casual observers) would expect.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        It’s definitey a consideration that should lower his value. At the same time a late first and sandwhich only have so much value. I believe that odds are against an MLB cup of coffee between the two.

  9. TheOneWhoKnocks says:

    I don’t think the Yanks have the pieces to get it done.
    They don’t have a 3B that will be ready by 2013. They don’t have an OF that will be ready by 2013.
    Banuelos, Williams, Nunez, Romine/Murphy would probably be a baseline but if Texas was willing to give up Olt and Martin that’s probably going to get the Phillies attention a lot easier.

    In a way it’s good, because I’d hate to have to give up 3 great prospects AND a huge contract. But in another way it’s bad because whatever team trades for Hamels will likely extend him

  10. Knoxvillain says:

    Pass. The guys’s a fucking quitter. I don’t care how good he is. He quit in the World Series in 2009. So I guess he will always be a true Yankee at least.

  11. JobaWockeeZ says:

    The Sabathia trade only had one prospect and it was the 7th overall pick in the 2007 draft.

    The Lee trade had 3 or maybe four top 65 prospects. The Phillies of all teams should know they aren’t getting 4 freaking prospects.

    But Hamels is the type of player you trade the elite prospects for. Even if he gets injured it’s a good deal because you know what to expect out of him. So use a package on Hamels, not someone like Matt Moore.

    Start off with Banuelos and Mason. I doubt other teams would go that high.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Brantley and Laportabaren’t the same person.

      Smoak isn’t three people.

      Hamels is signed for half a season.

      Glad we could clear those things up.

      • Crime Dog says:

        No, Smoak isn’t three people. But he most certainly is not a major league caliber hitter at this point. He’s been awful.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Ias saying that the Lee trade comparable to this situation is the one from the Ms to the Rangers, as he was a pending FA. Nothing about Smoak other than that he was the guy traded for Lee.

  12. Leg-End says:

    They are gonna want much more than what we can give them and frankly despite it being a position of need now its hopefully not a position of need in say 2 weeks.

    Great to have him, not going to lose any sleep on missing out on him though.

  13. Preston says:

    I support going after him in FA, but I think the same logic that lead to us not trading for CC or Johan and refusing to up our offer to include Nova and Nunez for Lee holds here. No player is worth paying twice for.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      I’d agree but since they trade nearly every top prospect then I would like the Halladays and the Lees. Not Michael Pineda who hasn’t established anything like them.

      It’s only a matter of time Austin, Sanchez and Mason will get traded. But they could be used for the elite.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Yeah, because Hughes, Joba, Cano, Melky, Gardner… All traded before making an impact on the Yankees. Good point!

      • YanksFanInBeantown says:

        I see people say this everywhere but the only examples I can think of from the past 10 years are the Pineda and Granderson trades.

  14. The Scheister of Doom says:

    Nunez
    Adams
    ManBan
    Phelps
    Nuno
    Stewart
    Martin
    3M

    For Cole Hammels and Ruiz

    • Knoxvillain says:

      As unrealistic and insane as it sounds, it doesn’t seem to crazy. Maybe throw in Williams or Austin. I’m sure they have no interest in Stewart though.

      • Crime Dog says:

        Yeah, seems crazy. They would have no want/need for Martin. Stewart, as a crappy backup catcher, would not add any value at all.

        • Knoxvillain says:

          They’d need a catcher if Ruiz is gone though. Martin would be perfectly fine there. They aren’t going anywhere anyway.

          I don’t see the Yankees making an offer.

          • Crime Dog says:

            Yeah they’ll need a catcher next year. If they’re trading Hamels, they’re punting this season. No need for a Catcher who’s contract is up at the end of the year.

      • The Scheister of Doom AKA The Troll Monger says:

        I started it as a joke but I got serious towards the end, but jest it all up by including all the catchers, pull the catchers out and add a low A guy and I can’t see them getting too much more. Nuno and Phelps are darn close to ML ready, Nunez and Adams (when healthy) could start this year and next year in the ML, respectively. It’s just not a good time to be a Yankee farmhand with all the injuries which should F up any trade attempt for an elite pitcher ala Cliff Lee with Adams.

    • Need Pitching says:

      I think the Phillies would laugh hard at that

    • Get Phelps Up (formerly Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat) says:

      Haha I got a good laugh out of this, what the hell would the Phillies want with Stewart?

      Who is Nuno?

      • The Scheister of Doom AKA The Troll Monger says:

        Yeah, that was the funny part. Pretty sure the only team that would trade something of value for Stewart is the team he’s currently on. Cervelli, we miss you.

      • The Scheister of Doom AKA The Troll Monger says:

        Vidal Nuno, under 25, decent MiL stats this year as he’s discovered a change-up. Currently in AA.

        Minors  
        1.80 ERA
        70.0 IP
        59 Hits
        23 Runs Allowed
        14 Earned runs allowed
        2 HR allowed
        15 BBs
        60 K’s
        .224 BAA

  15. Preston says:

    That’s dramatic. The Yankees do play their prospects, in case you didn’t notice Phil Hughes and Ivan Nova are starting every fifth day, and David Phelps will be making a start this week. Cano was given the 2b job, Cabrera was given the CF job until it was taken from him by Gardner. Yes we traded Montero for Pineda. Yes Pineda is hurt. But Montero has been worth negative wins for the M’s this year so can we stop whining about it. Who are these other prospects we should have kept rather than trade away. Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson, I’ll take Curtis. Jose Tabata, Arodys Vizciano, Zach McAllister? I really don’t get it.

  16. Gonzo says:

    As Sweet Dick Willie pointed out the new CBA may make it less intelligent for teams to pay a Cliff Lee package.

    1) No draft pick compensation if he leaves at the end of the year.
    2) Prospects’ value may have increased in the new Rule V Draft and IFA rules.

    Again, not saying it’s a given since it only takes one GM to make the market. It’s just something to consider.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      How did prospect value increase?

      • Gonzo says:

        Are you saying that prospect value is certainly unchanged?

        • Ted Nelson says:

          I said: “How did prospect value increase?”

          I said that to see your reasoning, because I think the new CBA will have a far more marginal impact than a lot of people seem to. Yankees had a very similar draft to what they always do, maybe with a little less depth (but unsigned HSers will have to come out eventually). The rules aren’t fully in place but they got two top 4 BA IFAs. I don’t see the catastrophe so many predicted. And once all rules go into place some teams will be able to get relatively more amateur talent than before.

          So, I asked why you think prospects are now more valuable. Because I don’t really.

          • Gonzo says:

            I did not say prospect value increased as a fact. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              I specifically asked why you THINK it increased. What comment are you reading?

              For some reason you have only attacked me rather than just explain your reasoning.

              • Gonzo says:

                Again, I never said I think prospect value has increased.

                Secondly, I am not attacking you. I am not sure why you of all people are being so sensitive. I am simply not letting you put your thought/words into my mouth.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  And what I asked you was why would it have increased, since you said it may have increased. It may have increased, it may have decreased, it may have stayed the same… are we just picking one of three possibilities at random and listing it?

                  • Gonzo says:

                    Nope, I actually thought about it. I saw that you were just on one of your picking fights moods judging by your comments on this page, and I avoided it altogether.

                    You should feel great, you even got to insult me without discussing anything baseball pertinent.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      I was trying to discuss baseball, and you were trying to avoid talking baseball with snide comments…

                      I am still waiting for you to talk baseball, and you are still making snide comments instead.

                    • Gonzo says:

                      Because I rather not discuss baseball with you when you are just looking for an excuse to insult me. I don’t know why you are continuing. You got to insult me already.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          Relied and I guess it didn’t go through.

          I asked a pretty straightforward question. I think the overall changes o the new CBA to the talent available will be marginal at best. I’m wondering why you disagree.

          • Gonzo says:

            I said it may. You must have misread that.

            So let me ask my straightforward question again. Are you saying that prospect value is certainly unchanged?

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Why are you being so confrontational? I read your comment and say the may. Anything may change. Pigs may fly tomorrow. I’m asking why you think it may happen.

              I think I cleart answered your question. I said that I don’t think it’s changed, nothing about definitive anything. I then provided my reasoning, something you have still failed to do besides pointing out that anything may happen. It seems you arethe one with the reading comprehension issues.

              • Gonzo says:

                I think you are being too sensitive Ted.

                I never predicted a catastrophe either.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  I’m being sensitive? I ask you to explain part of your comment and you basically deny that it was in your comment… then you attack me.

                  • Gonzo says:

                    I didn’t attack you Ted. I tried to clarify what I believed was a misinterpretation on your part. Should I just avoid that too?

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Your ridiculous questions about whether I believed that it was 100% certain that prospect value had not changed were a pleasant attempt to clarify a misunderstanding that didn’t exist?

                      Dude, I asked a really simple question. You have made no attempt to answer it at all. If you want to ignore it, fine. Instead you’ve just made a series of snide and completely baseball unrelated comments. What a fucking waste of both of our time.

                    • Gonzo says:

                      What a waste of both our times? Wow, I wonder if I’ve ever felt that before when trading barbs with you.

              • Gonzo says:

                Here come the personal attacks too. Didn’t take too long this time Ted. Way to go.

                BTW, you may think I attacked you, but that was seriously not my intention. You may have read too much into that.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  Are you kidding? I started the attacks?

                  Your snide little you must have misread that comment was what?

                  Why can’t you just explain what you were talking about instead of getting into this semantics bs? I read what you wrote. I saw the “may.” I then asked why it may have increased… sorry I didn’t include the specific word “may.” You now seem to think that there’s no reason whatsoever it would have increased, since you have not provided a single reason.

                  • Gonzo says:

                    Nope, I thought about it. I just think it’s pointless to discuss it with you when you are in one of those fight picking moods.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Where was I picking a single fight?

                      I asked you a really simple question, because I disagreed. You have made no attempt to answer at all. You seem to be the one who wants to pick a fight and not talk baseball. I have done nothing but try to talk baseball with you. I actually thought you were one of the more reasonable commenters on here until this little charade.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      If you want to avoid talking to me, the way to do that would be to not talk to me. If you want to pick a fight, the way to do that would be to make snide little comments and ignore baseball entirely to make personal comments.

                      You were incorrect that I didn’t want to talk baseball with you. And in the process you were a total douche.

                    • Gonzo says:

                      Go ahead. Do you have any more insults left? Anything left in the tank?

                      This is actually the second time you’ve said you said something like this to me.

                      “I actually respected your comments previously, but this certainly casts you in a new light to me.”
                      -Ted Nelson

                      Since this the second time you’ve said something like this to me, does this mean you will just take everything I have to say and ignore it? Is this your go to insult when you think the person is not reacting to your other insults?

                      Also, I don’t have to ignore your comments. You can choose to ignore mine, or not. Just like I can choose to ignore your comments or not.

  17. MontgomeryKmachine says:

    Yankees will not go after Hamels, simply do not have the prospects to get him. Rangers and Blue Jays are the only teams I see that can make that kind of deal right now. I could see this…

    Blue Jays get: Cole Hamels

    Phillies get: Anthony Gose OF, Adeiny Hechavarria SS, JP Arencibia C, Asher Wojciechowski RHP, Mike McDade 3B

    I think this would make the Jays even scarier plus they get to keep 2 of their top 3 prospects

    • Preston says:

      I don’t think the Jay’s are willing to sell out their system for a rental. They will definitely try to sign either Cole or Greinke in the off-season. But I don’t think that getting one of those guys would even put them over the top this year.

      • MontgomeryKmachine says:

        Well you’re probably right, if Morrow was healthy though I think its a different story because Romero, Hamels, and Morrow is a pretty scary front 3

      • MontgomeryKmachine says:

        Although thinking about it they aren’t exactly selling out their system in my proposal, still keep D’Arnaud, Jake Marisnick and they have other great pitching prospects.

  18. DeWayne is DaHere says:

    Hughes
    Nova
    The 14 year-old IFA signed today
    Banuelos
    Austin
    Aune
    Qualls
    Mustard
    A real cheesesteak
    Marakovits
    Pat D.

    for

    COAL HAMMMMELS

    • The Scheister of Doom AKA The Troll Monger says:

      Yu forgot Katsup and a Dave and Busters 20 dollar powercharged game card with 8000 tickets pre-loaded on it.

  19. Betances' Command says:

    I hope Cashman isn’t thinking about giving up half of the Charleston team for this guy. I do want Hamels, but during free agency; and if we miss out on him then, oh well. I really approve of this new Yankee vision of a ballclub built upon a strong farm system. It’s cheaper and smarter.

    • Robinson Tilapia says:

      I’d wager you could offer all 3-4 of those guys and they’d still want someone closer to the majors. It’s not happening, nor do I think it should. Never pay twice for a guy.

      • Voice of Reason says:

        “Never pay twice for a guy” is really the wrong way to look at it. The prospects traded during the season would be for Hamels for the rest of 2012, plus not losing a draft pick should they sign him after the season. Then they’d sign him to a contract for 2013 and beyond. It’s the same person, but it’s two entirely different things you’re getting so you’re not paying twice for anything.

        • The Scheister of Doom AKA The Troll Monger says:

          Well said. Would also give them the upper hand via the exclusive negotiating period and a taste of the Bronx.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          The question is whether the price justifies the half season. I have no idea if it will.

          • Robinson Tilapia says:

            I can’t see how the insane price, which I don’t think the team could even pay, would justify a handful of starts. It’s a degree of doubling-down on going all the way I just don’t think is necessary for a team who appears to be doing very well and will be getting some valuable pieces back soon.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        We’ll have to see what they get offered, but it might not beat 3-4 top low a guys.

        • Crime Dog says:

          I love the low a guys, really do. But I’m okay with trading top low A guys over high, but not top, AAA or AA guys (which the yankees don’t really have anyway). A lot can happen in the next 3-4 years before these guys make the big leagues, if they even do.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            The volatility goes both ways with the right Low A guys. Ceilings are much higher too. Some teams prefer that in trades. I can see why the high revenue, win now Phillies might not, but who knows what they do or more importantly should prefer. Sort of depends on specifics. I am just saying that spreading your risk across 3 or 4 high ceiling low minors guys might be preferable to one Smoak or a Brantley and LaPorta. Which are the comparables we have. Of course I had no idea Smoak would stink, but that’s a big risk putting all your eggs in one basket.

    • G says:

      With Austin, Sanchez, and Williams now in Tampa I wouldn’t mind trading half the River Dogs one bit hahaha.

  20. captain kiwi says:

    i could see the rangers/jays making a push. and as much as it’d piss me off if the rangers worked something out (seriously, they’re just assholes like that), i wouldn’t want the yankees even sniffing hamels until FA.

  21. MontgomeryKmachine says:

    I did the Jays so why not the Rangers too

    Rangers get: Cole Hamels LHP

    Phillies get: Mike Olt 3B, Leonys Martin OF, Neil Ramirez RHP, Cody Buckel RHP

    • Crime Dog says:

      From what I’ve heard, Olt isn’t gonna stick at 3B. I thought he was more of a 1B prospect. Even still, Texas seems like they’re in good position to make a move for Coal if they wanted to.

  22. Frank says:

    Forget Hamels. He’s going to wind up with the Dodgers anyway.

  23. Wayne says:

    I hope we don’t give up Jose Ramirez and or Rafael dePaula. Those guys are our best pitching prospects. We could give up mikey o’brien Brett Marshall Eduardo Nunez and Tyler Austin for cole hamels

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Manny is their best P prospect by a hundred miles. DePaula has a live arm, but dude is about the same age as Manny is DSL. Has a ton to prove.

  24. yankeegm says:

    This situation is similar in just about every way to the Johan and CC trade situations. Cash has shown that he is quite loathe to pay for a player twice; once with prospects and then a huge contract. All due respect to Cole Hamels, Johan was a much more attractive option at the time. Hamels is a very good pitcher; Johan was a dominant, shut-down, undisputed Ace and best pitcher in the game.

    Granted a big reason Cash was able to say no to Johan was that CC was gonna be available for just money in the upcoming offseason. At this point most people believe that Hamels will explore free agency trade or not, so if Cash wants him we can just pay for him once and keep the kids.

    In addition, CC, Kiroda, Nova, Hughes and Andy will all be vying for postseason starts; is Hamels an big enough upgrade over one of our current starters to justify trading our next wave of young talent?

    While adding Hamels for the 2nd half and playoffs obviously makes us better, I don’t think it’s worth gutting the farm system.

  25. Dewayne is Wise says:

    Gardner
    Phelps
    Romine
    Adams
    Nunez
    Get it done

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