Heyman: Yanks, Rox have had multiple discussions about Ubaldo Jimenez


Via Jon Heyman, the Yankees and Rockies have had multiple conversations about Ubaldo Jimenez, but they have not yet gotten around to exchanging trade offers. Colorado isn’t sure they want to deal their ace yet, and in fact GM Dan O’Dowd told Jerry Crasnick: “We will listen to anything, but the reality is that [a trade] is not very likely to take place.” That basically means “blow me away,” because the Rockies aren’t exactly under any kind of pressure to move Jimenez. He’s not going to be a free agent after the season and he’s not old.

Anyway, Heyman says New York is willing to part with Jesus Montero, but Dellin Betances, Manny Banuelos, and Ivan Nova have been deemed untouchable. That’s probably just a negotiating ploy though, those are the kinds of guys you concede later (if need be) rather than offer up front. The Rockies have been scouting the Yankees’ farm system of late, so there’s that. Of course this would be much more than a Ubaldo-for-Montero swap, a three- or four-for-one is likely.

Heyman also notes that while the Yankees are focusing on Ubaldo, they also have interest in Hiroki Kuroda but not much in Wandy Rodriguez. They don’t like the $30M or so left on his contract, which is something I mentioned in last week’s podcast. I liked Wandy better as a rental than a guy you’d be stuck with though 2013. We’ve written up trade candidate posts for all three, so everything you need to know about them is here: Ubaldo, Kuroda, Wandy.

Update: Heyman says the Rockies have named their price for Ubaldo: Montero, Betances, Banuelos, and Nova. They also want tickets to the Metallica/Slayer/Megadeth/Anthrax concert in September, suites on road trips, discounts from W.B. Mason, proceeds from the DJ3K merchandise, and all the bacon and eggs the Yankees have. Seriously though, that’s just a starting point for negotiations. They’d be stupid not to ask for that.

Categories : Asides, Trade Deadline


  1. Jonathan Harker says:

    Ivan Nova is untouchable? We’ll never add a quality starting pitcher if that’s going to be Cashman’s attitude.

  2. Jerome S. says:

    Betting odds, anyone?

  3. The Fallen Phoenix says:

    I can see it ultimately getting done for Montero, Betances or Banuelos, Nova, and a low-level guy the Rockies really like. Not that it necessarily will get done – personally, if I’m the Rockies, I’d hold onto Ubaldo and trade him in the off-season if that’s the best offer I get – but I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility.

    • Corey says:

      you dont want to have a repeat of halladay where the jays shot themselves in the foot by not dealing halladay midseason

  4. mbonzo says:

    I know the chances of Jiminez even being traded are ridiculously small, but this is the kind of rumor that I believe is significant. Things seems to be breaking quickly, over the last week its gone from a non-issue, to something that could happen.

  5. 23553 says:

    “Colorado is looking for two prime prospects, along with one or two big-league ready players, including a starting pitcher. (via Peter Gammons)”- Jesus, Banuelos/Betances, Nova, Eduamiro Penunez. Sounds fairly reasonable.

    • Cuso says:

      Nunez & Pena are distinguishable entities now.

      Nobody would take Pena in a trade. Same with Cervelli for that matter. They are literally throw-in players that the Yankees would ask teams to take in a trade. Including Pena in any trade gets you absolutely nothing back.

      Nunuz, however, has a great deal of value.

      Just saying we can put to rest the “Eduamiro Penunez” phrase.

    • Brian S. says:

      F*ck no it isn’t! Ubaldo is so f*cking overrated and there is no way the Yankees should deplete the farm system for a number two starter.

  6. Dennis says:

    Trade hitting, keep pitching…if you can.

  7. Mike HC says:

    Rockies: “We are not really looking to trade our ace right now unless we get blown away.

    Yankees: “All of our top pitching prospects are untouchable.”

    Business as usual in MLB.

  8. Freddy Garcia's 86 mph Heat says:

    Ubaldo for Montero, Nova, Betances and a PTBNL

  9. Kevin D. says:

    Montero, Betances, Adams, and either one of Noesi/Nova/Phelps.

    • I think you’d have to give Nova and one of those other two to get that deal done (which I think I”d do).

      • boogie down says:

        Yeah, I’d be cool with Montero, Betances, Nova, Phelps. Would absolutely keep Banuelos at all costs, unless adding him significantly alters in our favor the other prospects in the deal (which it won’t)

        • Tags says:

          I think people who easily say they’d included Betances have obviously not seen him. I’ve seen multiple starts in Trenton, and even when he doesn’t have his best stuff he is still overpowering. I’d hate to give him up for a guy I’m not sold on, plus that National league pitcher fear.

  10. I’d go Jesus, Banuelos, and a lesser combination of 2-3 guys OR Jesus, Betances, and a better collection of players, like Nova, Warren, and Laird.

    • Levi says:

      Agree. Although if it was totally up to me I’d choose the latter.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      It might take that to get Colorado’s attention, but I’m not sure I’d do it. All 5 of those guys are practically MLB ready, and only Laird is fringy. You might be handing Colorado 3/5 of their 2012 starting rotation and a perennial Silver Slugger. I understand that the uncertainty of prospects means you pay a large premium, but to me that deal would be selling low on Montero. If a team is not a huge Montero fan–and a team that plays in what is still a hitters’ park with a 1B who is about to turn 38 and a bad C should be as much a fan as anyone–I wouldn’t sell low on him. I like the Yankees’ opening stance that if you want Montero you’re not getting another top 25 or immediate impact player on top of him… I think they’ll have to come off it a bit to get anything done, but if it’s going to take another top 25 type prospect and two immediate impact SPs… I might just say “no thanks.”

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Depends on what you think of Montero, of course, since his value could continue to decline if he doesn’t turn it around at AAA and/or struggles in MLB. I have faith that his bat will turn it around.

      • I don’t knwo if I’d consider it selling low on Montero. If it wasn’t Ubaldo, I wouldn’t want him traded, but I think Ubaldo qualifies as one of those cheap/controlled/talented arms you do trade Montero for.

  11. Monteroisdinero says:

    Hughes looks good today. Keep Montero!!!!!! Give him a chance to get past the boredom.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      When you’re doing poorly it’s not called boredom…

    • Hughes looking good today should not dictate the necessity of a trade.

      • David, Jr. says:

        I don’t believe that it dictates whether they trade, but if they have a strong belief in Hughes going forward, they could sure look at it like this: “We will have CC, Jimenez and Hughes. That will allow us to compete strongly for most of the next five to ten championships. If Betances pitches great for the Colorado Rockies, do we really give a shit?”. It would be kind of like when they traded for Granderson. Sure, real assets were given up, but it filled a significant need, a prime age center fielder.

        I see this as maybe similar, and I believe it has a good chance of happening.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          If Hughes is reliable going forward they have much less need for Ubaldo.

          Could go either way, I just think you have to recognize that there are two sides to the argument.

          No one gives a shit that Betances does well… it’s how do Betances, Montero, and whatever else is given up do? How would they have done for the Yankees. How would whatever else they could have been traded for have done for the Yankees? It’s all about opportunity cost.

          The Yankees could compete with CC, Ubaldo, and Hughes, or CC could walk after the season while Ubaldo and Hughes both have career ending injuries. It’s not that clear. At the same time Montero and Betances could bust, or they could both become 7 WAR players.

          You’re making it seem like an easy decision, when I really don’t think it is. There are serious trade-offs. AJax + IPK was not Montero + Betances/Banuelos. The Yankees were able to get solid value for Granderson since he had been in decline and was getting more expensive. The Rockies aren’t dumping Ubaldo as far as we know.

          • David, Jr. says:

            I believe that they will visualize what a championship level series would look like for the next few years. They will certainly pay to keep CC at almost any cost. He can take on Beckett or Halladay or anybody and we can be very comfortable. After that, moving to game 2, if we are comfortable with Hughes or Burnett against Cliff Lee or Jon Lester, fine. If not, Cashman will go all out to acquire another top starter, as he may view that as virtually the only weakness on the team.

            Certainly there is a point beyond which he would not go, but if he believes that the need is there, he will err on the side of giving too much as long as the end result is a team that is better equipped to compete for championships.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              The Yankees can’t wave a wand and re-sign CC… he has to consent to it as well.

              “After that, moving to game 2, if we are comfortable with Hughes or Burnett against Cliff Lee or Jon Lester, fine. If not, Cashman will go all out to acquire another top starter, as he may view that as virtually the only weakness on the team.”

              Again… you are completely ignoring half the equation. Obviously Ubaldo could help the Yankees. Montero, Betances, Banuelos, Nova, Warren, etc. could also help the Yankees.

              “Certainly there is a point beyond which he would not go, but if he believes that the need is there, he will err on the side of giving too much as long as the end result is a team that is better equipped to compete for championships.”

              A. I’m not particularly interested in your speculation on Cashman’s thought process.
              B. Why didn’t he pay a premium to get Cliff Lee, Dan Haren, Oswalt, etc. last season if he was so set on winning now at all costs?

              Your point isn’t back-up by any evidence.

              • David, Jr. says:

                I don’t know what he offered for Haren or Oswalt. I haven’t seen anything written about that. It was widely reported that he offered Montero and more for Lee, merely as a rental. That is certainly evidence that he seems to see a starting pitching need and is willing to pay strongly to obtain it.

    • You just don’t want to change your handle to Ubaldough.

  12. Naved says:

    Wait guys….. you are saying ManBan > Betances?

    Betances has pitched better than ManBan this season and you can say he has better stuff than him too.

    • mbonzo says:

      Better stuff is questionable. Banuelos is a lefty, which is important when you think about the left porch in Yankee stadium. He’s also 3 years younger. Banuelos has more value.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        Yeah, 3 years younger is a big key since they’re both at the same level. We’re talking about a 3.87 FIP vs. a 3.69 FIP… it’s a marginal difference.

    • Kevin D. says:

      Well ManBan is a 20-year-old lefty that projects to be an ace. It also scares me that Betances has a hard time repeating his delivery, but I think we can all agree that he has the best stuff in the system. That being said I would rather keep Manban despite Betances being absolutely filthy.

      • Steve S. says:

        Yeah, I love Dellin’s upside but Manny is much more of a sure thing.

        One thing should be said about Betances. If we’re wrong about Dellin, we’re going to be very VERY wrong. It’s less likely we’ll be wrong about Banuelos, but also less likely we’ll miss him as much if we are.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          I don’t know about that… I know that’s the conventional wisdom, but Betances has a huge middle ground as an elite reliever or inconsistent 3-ish fWAR starter. It’s not all or nothing. And we could end up missing Banuelos a whole lot, too.

    • Who has pitched better this season is not the final deciding factor on who is a better prospect.

  13. SDM says:

    Wish they could keep both Betances and Banuelos but if a deal is done, the yankees need to keep the only lefty in the system that has both immense upside and closeness to the majors.

  14. Naved says:

    Betances is built like a monster. 6’8 240. Hitters have a hard time seeing the pitches coming out of his hand plus with the fact he does have nasty stuff. I am just worried if Betances is traded and repeats his deliver we will miss an amazing pitcher.

    • mbonzo says:

      Ubaldo is better than what Betances’ projected ceiling. Not saying, it would be worth it, in fact I’m not a fan of this kind of trade. Jiminez is young and cheap and great, but I think we’re giving up too much anyway. I just don’t see Jiminez impacting the team that much this year to justify a trade.

      • Frigidevil says:

        Very high risk-high reward from our side. Jiminez’s ceiling is his first half last year, and he hasn’t been the same since then. He’s very good, but not great right now. If Colorado can steal Montero and 2 or 3 of our young pitchers they will make out like bandits.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          “Jiminez’s ceiling is his first half last year, and he hasn’t been the same since then.”

          This is factually incorrect. August was as good as any month for him in 2010 and September was also a good month. July was his worst month and June was also poor. He had an extremely low BABIP for the first two months last season, and that’s why his ERA was so low (below 1).

          “He’s very good, but not great right now.”

          I think you’re a little behind the eight ball… He struggled mightily in April, but has gotten better since. And through 20 IP in July has been great. So… “right now” I’d say he’s great. If you want to say that Ubaldo is extremely risky… every single player is. How you could see the risk in Ubaldo and not in prospects with zero MLB experience is beyond me.

          • Frigidevil says:

            August 2010 was very good by any means, but not at the elite level of his first 3 months. Halfway through June he was damn near untouchable, and then the Red Sox knocked him off his high horse. He had one great game against a playoff team after that point last year. He’s getting back to elite status as of late, but it’s still against inferior competition. He’s pitched 4 games against playoff teams, the Giants thrice and Yankees once. The four hitter in New York was by far the best of them, and even so he only went 7 innings. I don’t know how he would fare in a division with 3 other playoff caliber teams.

            As for trading away unproven talent, depth is a beautiful thing, and I’d rather be set for the future than trade that away for something we don’t have a need for right now.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              “but not at the elite level of his first 3 months.”

              His FIP was on the same level… exactly the same level. His ERA the first two months was about 0.75… If he did that consistently he’d be the greatest pitcher in the history of the game by miles, and miles, and miles. Your expectations are ridiculous.

              “The four hitter in New York was by far the best of them, and even so he only went 7 innings.”

              Again… your expectations are nuts. 7 IP 4 H against the best offense in baseball is not good enough for you?

              “As for trading away unproven talent, depth is a beautiful thing, and I’d rather be set for the future than trade that away for something we don’t have a need for right now.”

              There is absolutely a trade-off. Sitting on prospects at all costs is as stupid as trading them all away blindly, though.

              • JAG says:

                “Again… your expectations are nuts. 7 IP 4 H against the best offense in baseball is not good enough for you?”

                I thought the exact same thing. The only way that is not a good game is if we’re saying “7IP 4H game” as a way to hide the fact that he walked 8 and 3 of the hits were HR or something. The game that Ubaldo actually pitched? Colorado would take that every day, and the Yankees would too.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      And if Manny is traded they could miss an amazing pitcher too…

    • Stryker says:

      betances’ best case scenario IS jimenez. why not trade a could-be for a guy who is? the same situation happened with austin jackson and granderson and i think that turned out quite well.

      • I think that’s a bit high on Betances’ best case.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        “the same situation happened with austin jackson and granderson and i think that turned out quite well.”

        One example doesn’t prove your point… the same thing happened with Jay Buhner and Ken Phelps… or with Arodys and Javy. Granderson was also a bit of a buy-low/fair-market value opportunity as his salary was rising and his play had been dipping. There’s no indication that the Rockies are looking to move Ubaldo for less than a great return (though I have no idea, of course).

        It’s a case by case thing.

        I would trade Betances for Ubaldo in a heart-beat… but we’re talking about Montero + Betances + etc. … which makes it a much tougher decision.

    • Jerome S. says:

      Well the thing is that Ubaldo is pretty close to what Betances’s ceiling is. And since Betances has always had a question of probability, well, we might be able to call it a win… or a wash.

  15. J-Loco says:

    What about Montero, Bettances, Nova, and Nunez for Jimenez and Ian Stewart?

    • Why would we want to expand the deal to get Stewart as well? Ian Stewart is a career .239/.326/.437 hitter, and he can’t play shortstop.

      I’ll keep Nuñez, thanks.

      • J-Loco says:

        Stewart is a buy low candidate that can play 3rd, and after I posted that I read that the Yankees are considering Ty Wigginton instead.

        • Ty Wigginton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ian Stewart.

          And for the record,

          Ty Wigginton >>>>>>>>>>Eduardo Nuñez >>>>>>>> Ian Stewart.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            Not so sure about that… Wiggington’s wOBA at Coors is .360, but on the road it’s much more in line with his Baltimore #s the past two seasons: .320. His defense is also a negative.

            He was a combined -1 fWAR the two seasons before this one and appears to be helped greatly by Coors… if he’s better than Nunez I’d say it’s fairly marginal. And once either A-Rod or Chavez comes back I’d say he’s DFA’d and not better than Nunez for the roster.

            • Oh, I don’t want to trade Nuñez for Wigginton, I was just commenting that the desirability of trading for Wigginton is much higher than the desirability of trading for Stewart, because Wigginton is a legit useful MLB 3B right now, and he’d be an upgrade over Nuñez (right now).

              Absolutely, though, I’d rather just play Nuñez at 3B for a month than trade something of value for Wigginton.

              And that goes triple for Ian Stewart. If they want to give us Stewart for free, sure. If he costs something, kick Rox, Colorado.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                “he’d be an upgrade over Nuñez (right now).”

                This is where I think you’re out on a ledge. Away from Coors field he is no better than Nunez. At Coors field he is better.

                I know you didn’t say to trade Nunez for Wiggington, I’m saying that it’s dubious Wiggington is better than Nunez. Wigginton is a poor defender who hasn’t consistently hit anywhere besides Coors for years.

  16. Phil says:

    If we trade Montero, who plays catcher next year?

    • Martin with Frankie as the backup.

      • M-Three says:

        Martin may still be here but Cervelli won’t. Everyone needs to wake up and realize that Cervelli absolutely sucks. We have to stop wasting roster spot on guys like Pena, Cervelli and Mitre or I call him Mitrash.

        • We have to stop wasting roster spot on guys like Pena, Cervelli and Mitre or I call him Mitrash.

          Seeing as how pretty much every team in baseball history keeps wasting roster spots on guys like Pena, Cervelli, and Mitre… no, we don’t “have to” stop doing that.

          • Corey says:

            dont we want to be better then every other team in baseball history? i think that would be pretty cool, i guess you dont.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              It’s about the concept of marginal value. Who are you going to use as your back-up C until Montero is “ready?” Who are you going to use as your AAA call-up utility IF while not only A-Rod but also Chavez are hurt? The marginal cost of paying a quality middle IF, say, $10 mill to sit in AAA until A-Rod and Chavez both get hurt at the same time is not worth the marginal benefit. So you live with the Pena’s of the world. Same goes with back-up Cs.

            • We are better than every other team in baseball history, while still having a shitty 13th position player and 12th pitcher on the roster.

              What makes you better isn’t the last man on your bench or the last man in your bullpen, it’s the 9 starters, 5 pitchers, and top 3 relievers. Shit at the margins (i.e., your longman or your backup catcher) doesn’t make you great or shitty or prevent you from being great or shitty, it’s pretty irrelevant.

        • plus he’s a backup….who would you have as the back up? Romine still needs some time at 3A, so he’s july/aug 2012 at the absolute earliest.

        • Frigidevil says:

          I really wish we traded him when he looked good last year. Hindsight’s 20/20 but did anyone honestly think he would be able to continue producing like he was early on?

          • Ted Nelson says:

            If other teams didn’t honestly believe he would… why would they value him in a trade like he would?

            • Frigidevil says:

              There were offers for him last year, so somebody must’ve thought he could keep it up.

              • Ted Nelson says:


                • Ted Nelson says:

                  And…”somebody must’ve thought he could keep it up” does not logically follow “There were offers for him last year.”

                  If Arizona called and offered Scottie Allen for him (the guy the Yankees got for Miranda) that’s a lot different from if Colorado called and offered Ubaldo Jimenez for him.

      • Steve S. says:

        IIRC, Newman was recently quoted as saying something like “Romine really should be in AAA right now”. So I suspect they’ll be a ST competition for backup Catcher, like there was this year.

  17. Was looking at the Rockies’ contracts for someone they’d like to unload with Jimenez…sometimes you see that bring the asking price down….maybe 3 for 2 instead of 4 for 1.

    The best I could come up with is Ty Wiggington 12:$4M, 13:$4M option ($0.5M buyout).

    • 28 this year says:

      perhaps they want to unload Tulo’s contract… We will even give them Jeter while paying his contract.

  18. The Big City of Dreams says:

    They can’t wait to get rid of Montero

    • They Journalists and sportswriters can’t wait to assume that the Yankees can’t wait to get rid of Montero.


      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        Thank you sir

      • IRF says:

        If that’s what everyone is saying, there might be some truth to it. Its not like Goldstein and Heyman etc. don’t have connections.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          “there might be some truth to it”

          The implied other half of this statement is that there might not be some truth to it…

          • IRF says:

            Well yeah, I’m not gonna say for certain that the Yankees want to get rid of Montero, but saying that its just pure speculation by the journalists is ridiculous.

            I don’t think anyone on this board has Mark Newman’s phone number, so I tend to trust the professionals who do this for a living a little more.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              “but saying that its just pure speculation by the journalists is ridiculous.”

              If you have heard/read it from nothing but journalists… no, it is not ridiculous.

              “I don’t think anyone on this board has Mark Newman’s phone number, so I tend to trust the professionals who do this for a living a little more.”

              Dude… why is Mark Newman going to tell a reporter that the Yankees don’t like Montero and want to trade his ass? He’s not. That would be beyond stupid. If you want to sell your house for as much $ as you can get, do you tell the prospective buyer that you don’t really think it’s worth as much as you’re asking for?

              • IRF says:

                You’re right. I haven’t heard from anyone in the Yankees F.O about their plans for Montero. Neither have you. Thats why we have to rely on the people that have. Some skepticism is ok, but you shouldn’t just deny everything you read. Especially if it comes from someone like Goldstein who isn’t exactly known for stirring shit up.

                And I think you missed my other point. I’m saying that there isn’t anybody here who is in a position to know anything about what the Yankees are thinking, so we might as well to defer to the people that do.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  “Thats why we have to rely on the people that have.”

                  You have no proof at all that any of these people have heard anything from the FO. That’s why your argument makes no sense at all. They haven’t quoted sources… they’ve merely speculated. And you’re speculating that their speculation is based on fact.

                  I have literally heard Newman’s take from Newman in interviews. Why is that any less credible than anything a journalist may have heard from an unnamed source?

                  “so we might as well to defer to the people that do.”

                  You are not deferring to the people who do. The people who do are in the FO, not in the media. You have yet to even quote a single person from the media to substantiate your claims, let alone someone from the FO.

        • It’s a game of telephone, though. The following concepts are most assuredly true:

          A.) Montero is the Yankees most valuable trade chip; other teams who want to trade with the Yankees invariably ask for Montero first.
          B.) Due to Montero’s positional challenges and the potential for him to be blocked, the team would consider removing his untouchability status and parting with him in a trade for a true stud.

          Those two things simply mean that the Yankees would consider moving Montero, though, not that they’re “eager” or “desperate” to move Montero before his value declines or he’s exposed as a non-catcher or any of the other narratives that enterprising members of the media have crafted by connecting dots that weren’t necessarily meant to be connected.

          Teams want Montero and the Yankees would consider moving Montero, based on a multitude of changing variables. The Yankees aren’t TRYING to move Montero, though, just like the Rockies aren’t TRYING to move Ubaldo.

          Contingencies are incorrectly being portrayed as eventualities.

          • IRF says:

            These things are also true though:

            1. Several well connected writers, such as Heyman, Goldstein, and Sherman have reported that the Yankees are concerned about giving Montero a shot.
            2. Montero has been performing pretty well for a 20/21 year old in AAA over the last year and a half.
            3. Yankee catchers have been doing absolutely nothing since May 1st.

            Theres a ton of evidence suggesting these reports aren’t just BS

            • Ted Nelson says:

              “Several well connected writers, such as Heyman, Goldstein, and Sherman have reported that the Yankees are concerned about giving Montero a shot.”

              How do you know anything about those guys’ connections or who told them what?

              Saying that a team is concerned about giving a shot to a guy they have said will not be getting a shot in the near future is a self-fulfilling prophecy, not investigative journalism.

              “Montero has been performing pretty well for a 20/21 year old in AAA over the last year and a half.”

              Martin has fallen off after a hot start, but he could get hot again just as easily as continue to struggle.
              On the season Martin’s wOBA in MLB is marginally lower than Montero’s in AAA: .322 vs. .335. Since Martin is the better defender it seems pretty obvious why Montero is not getting his shot yet.

              “Theres a ton of evidence suggesting these reports aren’t just BS”

              Or suggesting that they are being patient with Montero.

              • The Fallen Phoenix says:

                These are also the same journalists who keep failing to predict who the Yankees target in drafts, too. I have a very, very strong suspicion that most of these journalists actually aren’t well-connected with the Yankees’ front office.

  19. M-Three says:

    The Yankees better stay as far away from Wandy Rodriguez as they can. This guy is so overated. He has never pitched in any type of pressure and would melt under the bright lights of New York. There is not one of our current 2-5 starters that he is better than. Rodriguez is nothing more than a left-handed Javy Vasquez and no one wants to go through that kind of crap again. Unless we trade for Jimenez, if we need another starter I think we would be much better off going back to Ivan nova rather than trade for Rodriguez.

  20. Based on what I’ve read on the Rockies demands, I’d say Montero/Nova/Betances at least gets the Rockies to listen.

  21. Brian S. says:

    This is so dumb! Don’t even think about this trade Cashman!

    • The Big City of Dreams says:

      Iyo why is it dumb?

      • Brian S. says:

        Montero and Betances have star potential. Nova is ready to throw 200 innings with a 55% GB rate for the next half decade for little to no cost. Nunez is proving to have major league talent and is insurance for an aging left side of the infield. Trading away the future for a number two starter out of the NL West is really really stupid.

  22. Bavarian Yankee says:

    I’d trade Montero, Betances, Nunez and Nova for Jimenez in a heartbeat, if that’s good enough for the Rockies.

    if Montero doesn’t stick at C, then he’s more usefull as a trade-chip imo. Nova and Nunez are no-brainers in that trade for me. Betances is the only guy I really would have a hard time to trade but in the end I rather have a guy that has already proved that he can do it than a prospect that maybe never will do anything. If that is a package the Rockies like then I’d do it.

  23. Steve S. says:

    Ty Wigginton’s name has come up in talks between the Yankees and Rockies, tweets SI.com’s Jon Heyman. As Heyman points out, Wigginton could fill in for Alex Rodriguez as he recovers from surgery.

    This is like striking up a conversation with the fat chick who’s hanging out with the hottie you really have your eye on.

    • nycsportzfan says:

      They could try and land both Wigginton and Jiminez in the same deal.. That would kill 2birds with one stone.. I’d rather have Jeff Keppinger though, as we need more “hitters” then anything else, not anymore 250-275 type guys..

  24. Brandon says:

    This is just stupid. Please stay far away from this trade as possible Cashman.

  25. Rich in NJ says:

    Trading their only near ML ready impact bat for a pitcher would be insane.

    • Not if that pitcher is an impact pitcher, no, it’s not.

      • The Big City of Dreams says:

        Is that what Ubaldo is?

        • http://www.fangraphs.com/graph.....;type=mini

          Hmmm… he could be, yes. He might not be, though, you can certainly make an argument that he’s merely good but not truly great. None of his numbers are bad, but none of his trendlines say “he’s arrived” or even that he’ll arrive shortly.

          You’re buying a little on potential, here, that his big fastball and career 3.60/3.56/3.83 E/F/x (which is solidly above average but not truly elite) means he’s on the precipice, and the fact that he’s about to enter his prime means he’s going to improve to true CC-level dominance any day now.

          The sum of pluses and minuses leads me to say that yes, the potential is legit and I’d give up Montero for him, but no, not Montero plus one of the Killer B’s. Too steep for not enough assurity of #1 status.


          • The Fallen Phoenix says:

            This is what you pay your pro scouting department for, though. If the Yankees talent evaluators think Ubaldo’s potential is legitimately harness-able over the length of his contract, maybe you do give up Montero and one of Banuelos or Betances.

            We’re, sadly, not in the right position to judge that, I think.

              • The Fallen Phoenix says:

                I mean, I don’t know. It looks like Ubaldo’s hit a plateau when it comes to walks and strikeouts, and when you consider his stuff has slipped this year relative to last, it certainly doesn’t look like he’s going to take that next step and be a truly elite pitcher.

                If you don’t think he improves, he’s a really, really good No. 2 on a below-market contract. In his prime. Yeah, it’s hard to say if Montero + Banuelos/Betances is worth that, but I can see the argument that says yes. You’re giving up MANY years of potentially elite, cost-controlled talent. But…potentially.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  He’s been the 9th best pitcher in baseball for 3.5 seasons while pitching in what I believe is still the #1 most hitter friendly park in baseball… that’s not a #2.

                  • The Fallen Phoenix says:

                    1) His numbers are buoyed by an unreal first half last year.

                    2) The NL West isn’t exactly filled with world-beating offenses, and has some good pitching-friendly stadiums, too.

                    3) His walk rate isn’t quite elite.

                    4) His GB/FB rate has been trending down for four years. It’s back at 50% this year, but his actual stuff has slipped (and his walk rate has spiked, although that’s started to trend back down as the season’s gone on).

                    …but okay, maybe you’re right. He’s probably closer to a No. 1 than a No. 2 starter, I’ll admit. If you’re going to trade Montero for a pitcher, he’s definitely the pitcher to do it for.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            “none of his trendlines say “he’s arrived” or even that he’ll arrive shortly.”

            The guy has averaged 6 fWAR the past two seasons… he arrived two seasons ago.

            You’re also ignoring his home/road splits.

  26. Corey says:

    not montero…… 2011 ubaldo isnt worth montero.

  27. FIPster Doofus says:

    Get it the fuck done.

  28. Steve S. says:

    Colorado is looking for two prime prospects, along with one or two big-league ready players, including a starting pitcher.


    That first part implies to me that the “two prime prospects” could be AA or lower. Or that we could combine the MLB ready/prime prospect category.

    Package #1:
    Betances or Banuelos-Prime prospect #1
    Heathcott-Prime prospect #2
    Nova-Big League ready pitcher
    Noesi/Warren/Phelps-Big League ready pitcher #2

    Package #2
    Montero-Prime Prospect #1 and MLB ready #1
    Banuelos or Betances-Prime prospect #2
    Nova/Noesi/Warren-MLB ready #2

    I’ll do either of those deals yesterday.

  29. BklynJT says:

    I’m terribly scared of any deal we get involved with for Ubaldo, since it involves the exchange of many high level propsects. It’s like the beckett-hanley deal, but with alot more high level talent leaving the Yankees.

    There is a huge potential for this deal to be lopsided against the Yankees when all is said and done.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      It was actually Hanley and Anibal Sanchez, and the Red Sox also had to take Lowell’s contract back.

      • BklynJT says:

        Yeah, I didn’t mean to imply it was a straight 1 for 1 deal. I just referred to it that way… but yeah, thanks for assuming you needed to correct me and then go ahead and correct me. =)

        • Ted Nelson says:

          No… you said that the Yankees would be giving up far more. Besides Montero not necessarily being a C while Hanley was a long-term SS prospect… they also gave up Anibal Sanchez coming off a 21 year old AA season that had him ranked as the #40 prospect by BA. Giving up Montero + Betances would actually be pretty in-line with Hanley and Sanchez. Lowell had some value to the Red Sox, but eating that contract and taking back Mota as well might be comparable to an Ivan Nova in trade value.

          I felt the need to disagree with your statement that the Yankees would be giving up more than the Red Sox.

          • BklynJT says:

            My post is regarding the high chance that any deals involving this many quality prospects can really turn bad for the Yankees in the future.

            To your point, the Yankees could potentially give up 2 top 50 prospects and 2 other quality players for 1 person (1 of which is already succeeding in the majors with up to 6 years of control left, which has huge value).

            The Red Sox gave up 4 prospects (2 top prospects) for 3 players.

            Anibel was a top prospect, but since I know how he turned out (hindsight is great isn’t it) I consider Betances/Banuelos to be a better prospects since they still have a chance to be an ace.

            I’m sure a lot of others would still consider either of the killer B’s better than Sanchez at the times of the trade.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              “My post is regarding the high chance that any deals involving this many quality prospects can really turn bad for the Yankees in the future.”

              This is stating the obvious… you have to give something to get something. I agree that the risk is there… but that doesn’t mean you just stop evaluating the situation and shut your brain off. The risk is also there that if you keep Jesus, Manny, etc. they will do absolutely nothing in the majors. It’s not an easy decision. It’s not easy to say let’s trade for him, but it’s also not nearly as easily as you imply to say let’s not trade for him.

              “Anibel was a top prospect, but since I know how he turned out (hindsight is great isn’t it) I consider Betances/Banuelos to be a better prospects since they still have a chance to be an ace.”

              Anibal Sanchez is an ace…

              “The Red Sox gave up 4 prospects (2 top prospects) for 3 players.”

              The Marlins were dumping Lowell’s salary… that was a negative, not a positive.

              And we have no idea what the Yankees will or will not give up.

  30. V says:

    SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
    rockies name price for ubaldo: montero, banuelos, betances & nova. nyy will do montero plus other pitchers (not those guys)


    • Grandy says:

      No thanks Mr O’Dowd.

    • Steve S. says:

      Sounds to me like they’re on the same page. They can split the difference on one of the B’s, but I bet that last pitcher will be the sticking point. Yanks will try to hang onto Nova and sub Warren/Phelps/Noesi.

      Either way, I do it.

      • boogie down says:

        Agreed. I’d love it if Montero, Betances, Warren got it done, but wouldn’t mind it if Nova were to replace Warren in that set. As I’d said elsewhere, I absolutely, positively hope we hold on to ManBan.

    • SDM says:

      1. Look at the demand list
      2. Laugh hysterically
      3. Tell rockies to go to hell
      4. hang up the phone

  31. teddy says:

    Jon Heyman
    SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
    rockies name price for ubaldo: montero, banuelos, betances & nova. nyy will do montero plus other pitchers (not those guys)

    not happening

    • wow says:

      start high, i guess.

    • nycsportzfan says:

      The yanks better at least start with Montero and Nova, and tell COL to pick outta either Banuelos or Betances and then one more younger guy like a Jose Ramirez.. If there hell bent on needing Both killer B’s, then the Rockies gotta throw in Huston Street or Ty Wiggington….

      Jose Ramirez

      Ubaldo Jimenez

      • Thomas Cassidy says:


      • dennis says:

        Both B’s and u think huston street is a deal breaker.ahahhahahaha

        • nycsportzfan says:

          uhh, ya, i do.. Were a win now team, we’ve built this farm system real quickly, and have depth all over, it was just the yr before last that Ivan Nova was given back to us from the Padres off the Rule 5draft, and look at him? We still got Noesi, who might be bettre then any of em, for all we know, and Phelps and Warren are both solid, and we got Dj Mitchell, a Ton of Upside pitchers that could be right here like Man Ban and Betances in a yr or 2 , guys liek Evan Deluca, Caleb Cotham, Jose Ramirez, Graham Stoneburner, Brett Marshall, Bryan Mitchell, just to name a few… As far as catchers, we got 3solid players behind Montero, Romine, Murphy and Sanchez, and were huge players in FA’cy.. For all u know, we could add Ubaldo and Sign CJ, and then were set in the rotation for god knows how long, with still all those guys i mentioned to step in at diffrent points if needed because of Injury or for trade.. Add in the fact, were a WIN NOW team, and Street bolsters the Pen for the stetch run and going forward, like a poor mans Heath Bell, who were said to be interested in.. If any of our pitchers have careers as good as streets, i’ll be mad happy! Steet is 27yrs old, idiot..

    • JM says:

      Well, at least talks apparently seem to be progressing because Colorado made an offer I’m guessing. The first thing each team says they’ll accept usually goes up/comes down (depending on which side you’re on) during negotiations so I can see Banuelos being taken out and some other mid-level guy, let’s just say a PTBNL, being substitued. Honestly, I’d do Montero/Betances/Nova/PTBNL and considering the starting points I think Colorado would accept it.

      • Naming a price ≠ making an offer

        More importantly:

        Heyman saying they’ve named a price ≠ they’ve named a price

        As said before, I trust Jon Heyman as far as I can throw him.

        • The Fallen Phoenix says:

          I believe that Heyman probably named his price. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if that approximated the Rockies’ price, I would have to think that (big) if the Yankees and Rockies are having serious discussions, the Rockies are probably targeting players Heyman has not even heard of.

        • JM says:

          I was unsure also but I was trying to say if this is the case, it’s a good thing. I suppose wait until there’s at least another guy saying the same thing.

        • Steve S. says:

          Yep. Sometimes I think Jon reads message boards and throws shit out there to get people going. He does have a habit of retweeting the actual news that other, real reporters break (Olney, Rosenthal, etc) and passing it off as his own.

        • Jake says:

          And with your bad knee, Ed…

  32. Thomas Cassidy says:

    Montero, Warren, Stoneburner/Nova/Noesi, and Nunez.

    No, you cannot have Banuleos.
    No, you cannot have Betances.

    Take it or leave it.

    • They’ll leave it.

      And frankly, most every team in baseball will probably make an offer, and Colorado will probably reject all of them, because they’re in no hurry to move Ubaldo and teams are reluctant to blow other teams away anymore.

      I’ve got a dollar that says Ubaldo is a Rockie when free agency opens this winter, and another dollar that says he’s the Rox 2012 Opening Day starter.

    • Too little. You have to part with either Banuelos or Betances in this deal. I’d rather part with Betances because Manny’s a lefty, younger, said to be the safer bet.

      • Thomas Cassidy says:

        Then I’d tell the Rockies to go fuck themselves and just bring back Nova up when he’s needed.

      • Xstar7 says:

        The Rockies know that though, so they will most certainly want Banuelos. And if I’m the Yankees, I’d be pretty hesitant to give up Montero AND Banuelos.

        • JobaWockeeZ says:

          I agree. Ubaldo isn’t at the holy shit ace level like Halladay or Lee or Verlander yet. Still top 15ish but it’s a tougher call.

      • Mike R. - Retire 21 says:

        I don’t think a #1 prospect, ml pitcher, ml middle infielder and a mid level pitching prospect is too little. It’s actually one of the more reasonable offers I’ve read.

  33. mikeyyyymikeeee says:

    There is absolutely no way we throw in either banuelos or betances with montero….

    • Thomas Cassidy says:

      I wouldn’t do that at all. I don’t think the Yankees will do that, either. I wouldn’t even do Banuelos for Jimenez straight up.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        “I wouldn’t even do Banuelos for Jimenez straight up.” ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

      • nycsportzfan says:

        what? U people are crazy! Banuelos is struggling at Double A, hes walking a ton of guys.. If he ends up being half the pitcher that Jubaldo is now, it’d be something… Ubaldo is one of the best pitchers out there in baseball today… U could put Ubaldo up against any pitcher in baseball and have a chance to win that game.. Banuelos and betances haven’t even gotten a out past double A, and who knows if or when the yanks, who deal with there minor league plaeyrs very strangely would ever give em a chance anyways, and that always leaves the chance of lost value if Manny or Betances arent truly the real thing and struggle at any point, kinda like Banuelos is doing now.. Banuelos is waliking a Ton of players now, and hasen’t looked good at all…

        • Thomas Cassidy says:

          Banuelos will be fine. He’s 20 years old in AA getting strike outs. He was great last year. He will fix whatever flaws he has and be a great pitcher when he’s on the Yankees.

          Ubaldo isn’t a top 15 pitcher in baseball this season.

          And if someone wants to post this FIP/+ERA shit, save it, the only thing that matters are wins, strike outs, and ERA.

          • Xstar7 says:

            “the only things that matter are wins, strike outs, and ERA.”

            You lost me

            • Thomas Cassidy says:

              WAR matters, too. But all of these idiots on forums arguing on who is and isn’t better because of FIP and all of this shit. There is a reason we are on River Ave Blues and not working for the Yankees’ front office.

              • If you want to say that WAR, FIP, and ERA+ (I think that’s what you meant to say) are flawed stats that shouldn’t be trusted because they’re compiled incorrectly, that’s a valid discussion to have (and one that’s been entertained repeatedly on this site).

                Saying that “the only thing that matters is wins, strikeouts, and ERA”, that’s just laughably ridiculous. Strikeouts and ERA matter, but they’re not amongst the ONLY things that matter.

                And wins suck ass. Fuck wins.

              • Steve S. says:

                What’s wrong with judging a pitcher solely on the things he can control?

                One other question. Why are people who disagree with you on something “idiots”?

              • Ted Nelson says:

                WAR matters but not FIP???? You realize that FIP is used to calculate WAR, right? You don’t have much room to call anyone else an idiot.

          • Ubaldo Jimenez, 2008-2011 (minimum 100 games started):

            51 wins (10th best in all of baseball)
            3.52 (17th best in all of baseball)
            683 strikeouts (10th best in all of baseball)


          • nycsportzfan says:

            dude, Ubaldo was on the DL in early April with a Thumb Injury, hence his early season struggles, i mean, come on! U want Wins K’s and ERA?

            How about

            5-3 2.52era 54k 13bb over 9starts, and 3starts against Yanks White Sox and Tigers… The guys healthy and pitching exactly like he did last yr now…

      • Jorge says:

        I’d do Banuelos for Jimenez straight up, FWIW. I think any sane person would. I don’t think any sane person would do Montero/Betances/Banuelos/Nova.

    • Steve S. says:

      In case you haven’t noticed, Montero’s stock is way down. He’s also not a Catcher in this deal, he’s a 1B they hope will replace Helton. They have a Catcher they like in Ianetta, and their BA #2 prospect is a Catcher in AA with a big bat who’s better defensively than Montero.

  34. Bryan L says:

    I’ll be flat out shocked if we end up with him. Shocked. No sarcasm.

  35. Montero, Betances, Nova, and other stronger pieces to keep Manny out of the deal.

  36. JobaWockeeZ says:

    If they do the package above I’ll be very sad and very happy. I mean I would rather get Kuroda/Dempster and keep the farm but Ubaldo is the man. I’m surprised I haven’t seen a Carl Pavano reference yet.

    • JobaWockeeZ says:

      For shits and giggles though since Ubaldo’s career started Dempster and Kuroda have posed better xFIP’s, tERA’s and SIERA’s which I believe are all park and league adjusted.

  37. Jorge says:

    No. I’d rather they miss the playoffs the next two seasons while figuring out solutions that do not destroy the farm system.

    • Ted Nelson says:

      Did you not finish reading or what?

      “Seriously though, that’s just a starting point for negotiations. They’d be stupid not to ask for that.”

      • JobaWockeeZ says:

        Even then if Cashman wants Ubaldo he will have to pay a steep price regardless if the offer above is the final one.

    • Steve S. says:

      “No. I’d rather they miss the playoffs the next two seasons while figuring out solutions that do not destroy the farm system.”

      Are you sure you’re a Yankees fan? Because the team hasn’t operated that way since the early 90s when George was on vacation. And then it was intended as punishment to his fellow owners.

  38. HulkHeyman says:

    Get it done cash! Don’t fail us now!

  39. Ron Swanson says:

    Now I want to make sure you heard me right. I didn’t say bring me a lot of bacon and eggs. I said “bring me all the bacon and eggs you have”.

  40. Monteroisdinero says:

    I am never getting attached to our #1 prospect again. Can we have no faith in Jesus?

  41. Monteroisdinero says:

    Rockies need a 1B? We have an allstar bat who went in to play 1B in the 8th inning today NOT named Mark Texiera.

    Trade Swish/Betances/Nova/keep Montero

  42. Dela G says:

    Promote Montero, don’t trade him

  43. dennis says:

    the red sox are not a factor since they gave up all their prospects for gonzalez. So who else has the prospects to match Montero, One of B’s, lower level pitcher.

    • Steve S. says:

      The Tigers could match that with Turner+Castellanos.

      The Rangers could blow that away with Perez+Profar.

      • Dave says:

        Profar is only an 18 year old SS in A ball. He is years away. The Yankees deal gives them three players that can be part of the 2012 Rockies.

    • Xstar7 says:

      “The Red Sox are not a factor since they gave up all their prospects for Gonzalez.”

      Except for uber-prospect Jose Iglesias, the soon to be greatest shortstop ever who any team would beg to trade their ace for.

  44. Tom Zig says:

    That’s the starting point. But no one ever accepts the first offer unless it was something ridiculously low. So at least they are talking.

    • Steve S. says:

      That’s my take. Also, in terms of players they’re haggling over which ones to include, but there’s no doubt the two sides match up and have the makings of a deal.

  45. mustang says:

    Jesus Montero, Ivan Nova, Dellin Betances or Manny Banuelos for Ubaldo Jimenez and Ty Wigginton.

    Do it Cash money!

    • mustang says:

      I hold on to Manny Banuelos to the last minute, but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker. But I really would push for Wigginton if I’m giving up Banuelos.

  46. Gerald says:

    Ugh, i’d rather give us Jesus and even 2-3 of the other guys (nova, phelps, warren, noesi) than 1 of Manny or Dellin. The team we are trying to be has no room for guys like Ivan Nova and Hector Noesi, but requires guys like Banuelos and Betances. I don’t wanna spend this decade like I spent the last one, watching the Yankees blow all of their resources on pitchers that don’t deliver.

    Anything is better than giving up Manny and Dellin… Jesus, Nova, CoJo, Laird, Hector, Warren, whoever.

    • mustang says:

      “Anything is better than giving up Manny and Dellin”

      I agree, but one has to be realistic they would be giving up an ace type 27 year old MLB starting pitcher with a very friendly contract those don’t grow on trees.

  47. lower case j says:

    just bring all the kids up….no, seriously….all of them.

  48. Thomas Cassidy says:

    Cervelli for Ubaldo straight up.

    If the Rockies don’t do this they are idiots.


    • fin says:

      I don’t think that would be enough. I think if you threw in Pena and A. Jones though, you might have something.

  49. Pasqua says:

    Go fuck yourselves, Colorado.

    /Ron Burgundy’d

  50. whiskeycritic says:

    I live in Denver and have seen Ubaldo pretty regularly over his career. I know it’s a lot to give up but I think he could be a huge asset to the Yanks. As fans we are more attached to these prospects than ever to the work of Mike A. and many others, but this is a fairly well established major league commodity we are talking about here. The cost to acquire him is going to sting.

    Denver is all abuzz about this and the rumors are flying that the Cards are in on him too. If they offer Rasmus/Miller that’s a pretty good start, and if Ublado is really on the block competition could drive up the price. It’s just my opinion but I’m hoping Cash pulls the trigger on something like Montero, Betances, Nova/Noesi, Nunez for Ubaldo, Wiggy

  51. ItsATarp says:

    Kiss my ass Rockies. Greinke, Lee and Halladay, all cy young winning pitchers and all much better than Ublado didn’t cost that much. That mountain air must be fucking with their fron,t office’s heads.

    • Jimmy McNulty says:

      There’s some wisdom to this, but those pitchers had much left time on their contracts. Ubaldo’s controlled to 2013.

  52. Luca10 says:

    Montero+Betances+Nova+Nunez for Ubaldo+Wigginton or Montero+Betances+Nova+Josè Ramirez for Ubaldo.
    Sing me up for it. Do it, C-money!

  53. bonestock94 says:


  54. KenC says:

    i be shock if yankees got him at all no less the cost.

  55. Greg says:

    I would give Montero, one of the B’s and pick 2 except those two.

  56. Greg says:

    I owuld also begin to call the Angels because the Rangers appear to have taken control

  57. I am not the droids you're looking for... says:

    So is now about the time when Jesus starts mashing?

Leave a Reply

You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

If this is your first time commenting on River Ave. Blues, please review the RAB Commenter Guidelines. Login for commenting features. Register for RAB.