Dec
09

Monday Night Open Thread

By

The Winter Meetings started today in Orlando, and, sure enough, things were a bit slower than usual thanks to all the craziness of last week. I’m talking about all baseball, not just the Yankees. Most of the top free agents are off the board already and the starting pitching market seems to be in a holding pattern until the Masahiro Tanaka situation plays out. There is very little reported interest in guys like Matt Garza and Ubaldo Jimenez and Ervin Santana at the moment.

Today was a really busy day here at RAB, so to make sure you didn’t miss anything, here’s a recap of everything we posted:

This is your open thread for the night. The Cowboys and Bears are the Monday Night Football Game plus the Islanders are playing as well. Talk about either game, the Winter Meetings, or anything else right here. Go nuts.

Categories : Open Thread
  • D

    The Yankees should offer Stephen Drew 4 years x $9M a year = $36M I think Drew would take.

    Drew becomes the new Yankees shortstop and Jeter moves to third base, too bad if Jeter doesn’t like it. He can join Cano in Seattle. Jeter for Nick Franklin since Franklin is blocked by Cano and $12M cleared the Yanks could use some of to re-sign Mark Reynolds (Franklin 2B, Johnson-Reynolds 3B platoon.

    • forensic

      Wow…

      • D

        Let’s have some fun on this slow post-Cano-and-Yankees free agent signing spree, pre-Winter Meetings night:

        ‘Say the Yankees signed Stephen Drew to be the new shortstop and told Jeter that he (Jeter) was moving to third base, and Jeter was so incensed he requested a trade to anywhere save the divisional rivals, the Tigers, the Angels, and the Mets (as he’d know the Yanks would never trade him to any of those teams, especially the Red Sox, the Tigers, and the Mets.)

        Let’s also say YOU are the Yankees general manager. You receive an email from the Seattle Mariners’ general manager Jack Zduriencik which simplys says “Nick Franklin for Derek Jeter? We’ll cover all of Jeter’s 2014 salary.”

        Would you make the trade? I would make it in a heartbeat. I would get a 22-year old switch-hitting secondbaseman with some pop (a dozen homeruns in 2013, his rookie season) under control through 2019 entering his second year of baseball so he’d cost around only $500K. I’d also clear $12M I could use towards paying Drew’s contract. Seattle gets (who they’d consider) a star player and hitter they could live with the bad defense of for his name and gate draw. He’d definitely be hands down the biggest star on the team after King Felix (yes, even bigger than $240M Cano.)

        Derek Sanderson Jeter has shown himself to be all about himself this past year. He came back before he was ready several times and played the field when he shouldn’t have. He threatened to decline his player’s option for 2014 so he could squeeze another $2.5M out of the Yankees, what else? He has yet to volunteer to move to 2B or 3B if the Yankees needed him to – I doubt he has done that (he doesn’t have to but why not considering Brendan Ryan BURIES him defensively.) He must’ve not tried to convince Cano to remain a Yankee because where is the story about him trying to do that? Nowhere and that’d be a story. Shouldn’t he of all people talk to Cano? Why not? I doubt he did – afraid he’d lose some money for 2015, I guess. I’m sick of this team being built around him when it shouldn’t be. Jeter should be the new 3B, Drew the SS.

        • Nuke Guy

          >Let’s also say YOU are the Yankees general manager. You receive an email from the Seattle Mariners’ general manager Jack Zduriencik which simplys says “Nick Franklin for Derek Jeter? We’ll cover all of Jeter’s 2014 salary.” Would you make that trade?

          There is no world where any GM would ever ask for Jeter. That would never happen and the Yankees would never do it. He has 10-5 rights anyway, so who cares? That is one crazy ass idea, man.

          >He must’ve not tried to convince Cano to remain a Yankee because where is the story about him trying to do that?

          Where do you get this ridiculous notion?

          • D

            Re-read what I said.

            First off Seattle would make that trade. Franklin has no future with Seattle now. Cano is the new secondbaseman. Ackley or Miller (probably Ackley) will be the shortstop. Smoak and Seager are the corner infielder. Franklin isn’t moving to the outfield and I doubt he becomes the DH.

            Jeter is right up their alley: a name, a star, a gate draw, and a hitter at least on a paper.

            Ridiculous notion re: Jeter and Cano? Try there hasn’t been ANY story mentioning Jeter talking to Cano and I DEFY you to find one and if you do we can look at that instead of you running your keyboard mouth to me like you are here.

            • Get Phelps Up (looking for a new name)

              Why does there need to be a story about Jeter and Cano? What would that possibly accomplish other than making you feel better?

              • D

                Because this second asshole thinks me writing that Jeter didn’t try to convince Cano to stay is a “ridiculous notion” when it isn’t because why am I reading what C.C. Sabathia said about the Cano signing but not what Jeter said? Jeter’s words are still pretty big and a story about him trying to convince Cano to stay would be even bigger and we haven’t had one yet or RAB and Yankees Lohud would’ve mentioned it.

                I find Jeter conspicuously absent in the whole Cano situation and you know what I think it is? I think he was afraid the Yankees would pay Cano more than the $189M he (Jeter) got after 2000, maybe even afraid the Yankees would give Cano the ten years the Yanks once gave him. Jeter still wants to be the top dog, so why help bring back Cano?

                • Rick

                  Why does everyone who disagrees with you have to be an asshole?

                  • D

                    “This clown is on a roll today”

                    - Your reply to me at 8:24pm tonight

                    You called me a name (when I didn’t call you one ever), therefore you are an asshole.

                    ‘Looks like you can’t take what you dished.

                    I never said anyone who disagrees with me is an asshole, I just called an asshole (you) an asshole because you wrote to me like one.

                    • Rick

                      I didn’t write to you like one lol. You take things very seriously apparently. You, therefore, are a clown.

                      It’s not my fault you are delusional and, likely, insane. You first propose a god awful (and unrealistic) trade scenario. Then you try to say you were just kidding after people (rightfully) started getting on you. Finally, you defend it again.

                      Lay off whatever you’re smoking, pass it this way, go take the xanax you very clearly need.

                    • D

                      Yes you did act like one, so I called it like I see it, asshole. Keep insulting me here cuz I know you’d never do it to my face in the real world.

                      LOL @ you disabling the reply button. Pussy.

                      I didn’t propose an insane trade scenario, I was fucking with you and all the other uptight need to get laid asses who par for the couse went all hissyfit on me but again think I was serious if it makes you feel better/superior.

                      Keep running your keyboard mouth about me being on drugs and you’ll post your email so I can post mine so you’ll know it’s me when I write you to ask you when and where in NYC you want to say your passive-aggressive nonsense to my face.

                    • Rick

                      Come to 36th street and 3rd avenue right now then lol

                    • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

                      Either you’re fighting him in front of frat bar in Murray Hill or by the Costco in Sunset Park.

                      I don’t know what I’d fear more there.

                    • Rick

                      Lol. I live in Murray Hill. As a young law student, there aren’t many places in Manhattan that are affordable.

                    • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

                      I hear ya. That’s why I stick to the comforts of the other side of the east river.

                • Get Phelps Up (looking for a new name)

                  Lol. Put down the magic mushrooms.

                  • D

                    Hey stupidass, I was joking / fucking with obviously you and many others re: Jeter.

                    I am dead serious about Stephen Drew.

                    The Yanks should not only sign Drew over Infante, but they should sign Drew to be the SS and once and for all end Jeter’s ridiculous unofficial ownership of the position.

                    Put down your fingers and stop running your keyboard mouth and read for once.

                    • Rick

                      Did anyone say anything about your Drew comment? Chill out man. Leave your basement every now and then. There’s a whole world outside.

                    • Get Phelps Up (looking for a new name)

                      So now after you’ve gotten to call everyone names you’re going to say you were joking? LOL.

                    • D

                      You little cowards disabling your reply buttons below (Rick and Phelps)

                      VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

                      I call people who post “This clown is on a roll today” (Rick) and “lay off the mushrooms” (you Get Phelps Up) assholes because you are assholes for posting that. You insulted me when I never insulted you now you’re keeping me from replying. Cowards!

                      Not only can neither of you take what you dished but you prevent me from replying to you. Pussies. Go cry to Mike Axisa bitches.

                    • Rick

                      Ever think that the system just stops allowing replies after a certain amount?

                      You clearly have some serious anger issues man.

                    • Get Phelps Up (looking for a new name)

                      Dude, when you argue for a long amount of time, the website disables further replies as you may remember.

                    • Rick

                      @ Get Phelps

                      It’s cool man. We’re just pussies. Imagine getting this angry on a blog? Yikes.

                    • Pat D

                      GPU: Why must we always be reminded of that night????

                      Oh, wait, I see why now.

                      Carry on.

                    • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

                      Thank you for the link, GPU. Really, thank you.

                • qwerty

                  It seems to me that Jeter probably cares more about winning another ring before he retires, which appears to be any day now, than what Cano could possibly be making.

            • Rick

              Jeter also has an insane amount of intrinsic value. He sells tickets and jerseys. He’s the most marketable baseball player on the planet. He’s the face of the franchise. The Yankees would get hammered for trading him.

              Also, since when is trying to come back too soon a selfish act? You put some crazy spin on things. A player trying to come back too early is solely to benefit the team, not himself

              • D

                The Yankees would get hammered for trading him? Take an adult reading comprehension course. I said IF the Yanks signed Drew, told Jeter he’s moving to SS, and Jeter got so upset he demanded a trade, would you make the trade? Some no MOST like you would say no, some would say yes, if more “NO” so be it.

                A player trying to come back too early can and did hurt the team thus was selfish. He was out again after his first game back which tells me he wanted to come back and got his wish.

                You GREATLY over-value Jeter 2014. He does not sell tickets, a Yankee team that hits lots of homeruns and averages five runs a game sells tickets. If 2013 Jeter = 2012 Jeter maybe the Yankees win a few more games but I doubt attendance would’ve went up much if it all and if it did it’d be because the team would’ve finished the season with a slightly better record, not because of Jeter.

                He is not the most marketable baseball player on the planet. Here are at least FIVE players who are more marketable than him for 2014: Mike Trout, Giancarlo Stanton, Buster Posey, Mashiro Tanaka, Ichiro Suzuki returning to through 2011 form. I can list more.

                • Rick

                  Really? Read this article from Forbes from March of this year. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ku.....e-field-2/

                  Here’s the excerpt re: Jeter: The Yankee captain remains the sport’s top pitchman thanks to deals with Nike, Gatorade, Ford Motor, Movado, Steiner Sports, Rawlings, 24-hour Fitness and Avon Products. Jeter originally worked with Avon in 2006 and teamed up again with the personal care company in 2012 after his Gillette deal expired. Avon launched a line of Jeter colognes and body washes under the Driven brand. The colognes alone had sales of $20 million in the U.S. last year, according to Euromonitor International. Jeter makes an estimated $9 million annually from endorsements and licensing.

                  Stop being an idiot for 5 minutes.

            • W.B. Mason Williams

              No. Never.

              First of all, you don’t just tell Derek Jeter to suck it and move to 3B. That doesn’t happen. Should the topic be broached? Sure. But you don’t just demand it like that without alienating one of the top 10 players in franchise history.

              Second, there’s no way they trade at all. Again, you don’t spurn a guy like DEREK JETER in what might be his swan song. Seriously dude?

              Even if they did trade him, he doesn’t have much value. A (soon to be) 40 year old shortstop that, were he still healthy, might have an outside shot of living up to his contract. Oh yeah, and he’s coming off a major ankle injury.

              And even in the insanity-universe where they do get the Mariners to eat Derek’s contract, you probably wouldn’t get Nick Franklin, a DIRT CHEAP MLB ready player who, granted has not shown it yet, still could net you more in a trade than 40 year old Derek frickin Jeter.

              Franklin and Walker will serve as centerpieces for a David Price trade in my opinion, or some other big-time trade.

              And finally, you have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. Jeter could have been on the phone with him every day and the media wouldn’t know it. Trying to sell short Jeter’s work as an ambassador for this team is frankly based nowhere in fact.

              • D

                First off, bullshit to your “behind closed doors” jive. When Jeter talks, people listen, E.F. Hutton style. No way the media didn’t know of DEREK JETER’S interactions with Cano, I don’t and won’t buy it. Yeah, Jeter is such an “ambassador”, he refused to move from shortstop so a better defensive shortstop, Alex Rodriguez could play there, or the Yanks were so scared to ask Jeter if he’d move they simply asked A-Rod if he’d move to 3B and A-Rod moved there like the team player he is and Jeter stopped being when A-Rod became a Yankee. ‘Know who was an ambassador for the Yankees? Mariano Rivera, and I seriously doubt Jeter goes on a tour to meet ballpark workers and other working folk like Rivera did in 2013. Jeter? Never had A-Rod’s back vs. the Red Sox in 2004 (Varitek etc.)

                Second, the Yanks can and would tell Jeter he’s moving to 3B if they just signed a younger, better shortstop to a four-year deal and they’re not gonna fleece Drew and say “You’re gonna be the 3B.” cuz you don’t do that to Drew. You don’t sign him to be the SS then tell him he’s the 3B because an old-ass SS in his walk year and probably his final year as a Yankee is the SS. The Yanks owe Jeter NOTHING. He has said it’s a business, well, him moving to 3B for a younger, better SS is a business, ok?

                Last Franklin is blocked by Cano and isn’t a dual-centerpiece to David Price. The Ms aren’t landing Price with him, Walker, and their two best prospects and what makes you think they would? Where’d you read that? I doubt Price stays with the team considering they still can’t hit their way out of a paper bag. The Rays have Ben Zobrist at 2B thus don’t need Franklin and Walker isn’t the next David Price. Seattle needs stars and hitters besides Cano to fill their seats, Jeter fits the bill. This is if I was serious about the Yanks trading Jeter which I wasn’t so Lighten Up Francis. BTW Jeter is 39 not 40 so take your head out of your ass and know how old the guy is before you pull the age card.

                • Rick

                  “Seattles needs stars and hitters behind Cano to fill their seats, Jeter fits the bill.”

                  But, but, but you just said Jeter doesn’t sell tickets. Me now confused.

                  • D

                    He’d sell tickets for Seattle.

                    “Let’s have fun…”

                    • Craig Sagermetrics

                      Kill yourself.

                      Seriously. Combine downers, hang yourself, put a gun to your head, whatever it takes.

            • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

              Actually there is a story about Jeter talking to Cano out there. It was posted on ESPN & Twitter about 2 hours before you posted this (just because you’re “defying” people).

              He was at a Core Four function tonight and asked about a variety of topics including Cano (he congratulated him for the signing and did try to “convince him to stay”) Torre’s HOF induction (of which he was proud) and the offseason’ moves (of which he approves and figures they’re not done).

              So, yeah, you got that one wrong.

              • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

                “Did NOT try to convince him to stay” that should read.

                He was particular on the point that he NEVER tries to convince anyone of being a Yankee. Especially if they’re already there, etc.

    • Nuke Guy

      wat

    • Rick

      This clown is on a roll today

      • D

        Fuck you asshole.

        • BFDeal

          Have you considered therapy?

          • D

            Have you and others considered getting a sense of humor about what I wrote re: Jeter? LOL @ your dumbasses thinking I was serious about trading Jeter when I wasn’t. Since you all think I’m serious I’m gonna further fuck with you and state why he should be traded.

            I was saying the Yanks should pass on giving 3 years and $10M a year to a so-so at best secondbaseman and give that money plus a little more to a new, younger, better shortstop.

            Stephen Drew at SS and Jeter at 3B > Jeter at SS and Infante at 2B or SS there I said it.

            I’m dead serious about the Yanks signing Drew over Infante. They should do it ASAP before Boston does and maintains their supremacy.

            • Nuke Guy

              >get ass handed to you on RAB
              >lol jk guys wasnt srs

              • Rick

                This guy is amazing. The old “I wasn’t serious about trading him” reply. Then getting angry on top of it. Amazing. My guess, the poster is somewhere between the age of 9-16.

                • Nuke Guy

                  I’m assuming he’s young. Either that or he doesn’t appreciate Jeter since he’d be fine with shipping his ass to Seattle.

                • D

                  My ass handed to me? Hardly. I sure lit a fire under all your asses huh? Finally, someone challenging the idea of Lord Jeter The Shortstop for real, not the typical “wah wah Jeter is old Jeter sucks”.

                  I wasn’t serious about trading Jeter in the original post, I was fucking with all of you and it worked like a charm, but you can think I was serious if it makes you feel better Sweetie and Sweetum.

                  My guess is you, Rick, are an idiot who can’t post without being insulting.

                  What’s most amusing about this post is EVERYONE isn’t touching the idea of Drew at SS when he is clearly a better choice than Infante who the Yanks don’t need as they have Johnson for 2B or 3B now.

                  • Rick

                    Because very clearly no one is opposed to making the team better. No tried to dispute that Drew is better than Infante.

                    You’re just a lunatic.

                    • Chris H

                      Drew may be the better overall talent with the bat but this year you could actually make the case Infante was better. Infante hit .318/.345/.450 on the year while Drew hit .253/.333/.443, obviously being a SS gives Drew the edge but Infante was above average against both RHP and LHP while Drew was pretty clearly a platoon player with the bat this season. It’s close but you could make the argument for Infante having the more valuable season. He should also command a little less playing 2B.

                  • Chris H

                    Stephen Drew has posted a wRC+ of 92 or under three of the last four years and four of the last seven. He also can’t hit LHP (career wRC+ against LHP of 74) and this year he was especially awful with a .196/.246/.340. According to DrS he’s a just below average fielder at SS which is very good if you combine it with one of his “on years” with the bat. The problem is he’s extremely inconsistent and I have no interest in giving him a 4 or 5 year deal. I’d rather wait and hope JJ Hardy or Asdrubal Cabrera make it to free agency next year.

            • W.B. Mason Williams

              I make a bad joke. (or badly backtrack)

              It’s your fault for not getting it.

              Right.

            • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

              Have you considered just entering the “uh” and “innings” in your screen name and being done with it?

              • Pat D

                Isn’t that still banned?

                Does it really matter since at this rate he’ll be banned by sunup?

                • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

                  As long as there’s someone else to give him the time of day, he’ll just be back under another screen name. The problem is that there’s always someone else to respond.

                  It’s practically impossible to truly ban someone on a forum like this in this day and age.

                  • Rick

                    I thought you could IP ban?

                    • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

                      You can, but there’s plenty of ways to get around that.

                      I use a VPN at home. I’ve commented from there, my phone, my IPad, and at least three separate works computers. Mike’s probably seen a zillion IPs from me throughout the years. Not that I’m trying to get myself banned or anything, but it’d be pretty difficult to do.

    • Chris H

      Please everyone stop with the idea of signing Mark Reynolds, he literally brings nothing to the table. I’ve said it before but it’s worth repeating Reynolds hit .225/.319/.406 with a .181 ISO power vs LHP this year and .227/.352/.370 with a .143 ISO against LHP in 2012. At what point is that worth bringing back in a role where he’d face LHP almost exclusively?

      • D

        Ever heard of Johnson-Reynolds platoon?

        Name me a better 3B who isn’t gonna cost 3 years and $30M like Infante will cost.

        • Chris H

          Why you platoon him against LHP when he only hit .225/.319/.406 vs LHP this year and .227/.352/.370 LHP in 2012? At this point Reynolds is a name and nothing more at this point. For refrence Eduardo Nunez is a career .272/.313/.414 hitter vs LHP, look familiar? That’s the kind of company Reynolds is now in vs LHP. Infante isn’t a 3B he’s a 2B so he wouldn’t factor into this anyway.

      • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

        If, at the end of the day, they’ve covered all their other base and he’s the best option left, then fine. At least he’d up the power numbers a bit.

        • Chris H

          Would he though? He slugged .406 vs LHP and .386 vs RHP, he may add a few HRs here or there but at this point he’d actually be a drag on the actual power numbers. As I said Reynold’s name carries much more weight than his actual production over the last 2 or 3 years.

          • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

            Like I said, if he’s the best option left, and the team has improved everywhere else they needed to, I could tolerate him as a one-year option. He’s in no way my first choice there.

    • hey now

      The 10-5 rule. Look it up.

    • OldYanksFan

      Dude… just say NO to drugs! (especially glue!)

  • Kurt

    Hi,

    Is it prudent that the Yankees sign Infante or will they go after a lesser cheaper option like Brian Roberts…in my opinion he is an injury waiting to happen and washed up.

    Also will they sign some pitching? Thers staff is in need of anupgrade sice Cc may never come back to form. Also sign Belfour to close

    • Nuke Guy

      I’m expecting the Yankees to sign Infante pretty soon. Pass on Brian Roberts though. He hasn’t been productive or healthy in a pretty long time. His career is pretty much over.

      I’m curious what their plan is for starting pitchers though. The market sucks and there isn’t anybody really available from what I’ve read. I would like for them to sign Matt Garza, but I wouldn’t go over 4/55 for him. Hopefully Tanaka is posted at least.

      • Chris H

        I’d rather have Jimenez over Garza at 4/55, to be honest I’d rather have Jimenez for 3 or 4 years over Tanaka if Tanaka pulls down 6-8 years and 18-20 AAV. I just don’t think he’s going to be that special.

        • Nuke Guy

          I’m not a fan of Jimenez. He has never been consistent in his career enough to warrant that much money in my opinion. Garza has proven he can survive fine in the AL East and I believe he has good postseason numbers too. I would like for them to take a gamble on Tanaka. I don’t really give a shit about what they pay anyone since it isn’t my money, just as long as they can put a competitive team on the field.

          • Betty Lizard

            It will not be a surprise if I say that I’m kinda hoping we get Jimenez because a. I think he’s cute and 2. I love the name Ubaldo.

            Also I persist in the assumption, proven wrong many times, that players will do much better as Yankees.

          • Chris H

            Jimenez has been much more consistent than people believe. In the past 5 seasons he’s had an ERA over 3.47 twice but he’s only had an FIP over 3.67 once. He’s not an ace and he isn’t the pitcher he once was velocity wise but I think he’s proven he can pitch with the reduced velocity and his 8.8% swinging strike percentage this year matches up really well with his career 8.6% mark. I think Garza is the overrated one, look at the peripheral numbers in his time with the Rays he was vastly overrated. With the Cubs he was good but he was injured and with Texas he was awful. Garza career 3.84 ERA, 3.98 FIP, 4.00 xFIP in 1182 IP while Jimenez is a career 3.92 ERA, 3.78 FIP, 3.96 xFIP in 1275 IP.

  • X

    Trade options:

    Gardner for Pablo Sandoval?

    Gardner and Romine for Danks and Beckham

    Headley for Romine, Nuñez, Gardner, DePaula and Williams.

    • Steve

      Don’t think the Giants would, don’t think the Yankees would, feel very confident the Padres wouldn’t.

    • Mickey Scheister

      Sandoval for Gardner isn’t terrible. Nick Franklin wouldn’t be a bad target either. More likely though, I think, Gardner for starting pitcher and Infante for second base.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

      I still think you don’t need to give up Gardner for Sandoval.

      • El Maestro

        Gardner for Sandoval would be a steal for the yankees if dude’s control his weight, which is completely out of control lol.

  • forensic

    All three RABbi’s with posts today? First time in a long time, I bet. Good stuff!

    • https://twitter.com/KramerIndustry Kramerica Industries

      oh damn you beating me to the punch.

    • Now Batting

      Wonder if it has to do with the new mobile popup ad? Not that I mind Mike & Company earning a buck. Certainly well earned.

    • RetroRob

      What’s next, the return of tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside the Elder?

      • Get Phelps Up (looking for a new name)

        Or perhaps even a podcast?? One can dream!

      • Pat D

        A consummation devoutly to be wished.

  • CT Yankee

    Logan Morrison was supposed to get traded out of Miami. Any news on where he went, or were the Marlins just blowing smoke?

  • Winter Meetings

    Having seen the current MLBTR headlines, I think Cashman and the Yank front office have been genius to this point. Few will admit it, but they are having an awesome offseason. That said, the Ellsbury signing, at least on paper, is looking very good right now. Now you have teams like the D-Backs jumping into the Choo sweepstakes, a team that previously didn’t show any interest. The Yanks paid fair value for Ellsbury and it’s hard seeing him having gotten more, but all I know is that given the choice btw Choo or Ellsbury at an apparent similar price, I’d much rather have the more versatile Ellsbury. Cashman was also wise to get the Beltran deal done. Now they are working from a position of strength with Gardner in their pocket.

    All I know is that there has been a lot of negative criticism about the Yanks and their dealings to this point. I’m obviously bias, but I don’t see it one bit. Meanwhile, the Sox give Napoli two years and $32mm, which is less than Beltran, sure, but it’s being lauded at the best signing in the history of baseball. Right, next season when the guy is on the DL for 110 games.

    • Winter Meetings

      ..and my money is on Gardner + Romine going to the Rockies. For what? I have no idea. I know they have a few young arms like Drew Pomeranz (via Indians), but Gardner and Romine fill two perfect spots for that team and considering their budget constraints, I can’t see how they don’t work something out.

      • Chris H

        What role does Romine fill for the Rockies? They already have Wilin Rosario at catcher who hit .292/.315/.486 last season. They could use Gardner I guess but I heard they were thinking of moving CarGo to CF and even if they don’t Blackmon can play CF or LF and he hit .309/.336/.467 so they don’t really have a need for Romine or Gardner.

        • Winter Meetings

          Back-up catcher

          • Chris H

            Dime a dozen.

            • Winter Meetings

              Ok. At least you’re consistent and disagree with everyone.

              • Chris H

                No I disagree with you. I just don’t see why the Rockies are knocking our doors down for a backup catcher and an outfielder they don’t need. They aren’t a team in contention anyway, they’d be better off holding on to the talent they have under team control than trading for one year of Gardner and all glove no bat backup catcher.

              • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

                “I think they’re going to the Rockies.”
                “Why?”
                “I don’t know.”
                “For who?”
                “I don’t know.”

                It’s “no homework” night on the open thread.

    • mustang

      I think they still have some work to do and “awesome” is a bit strong, but they are doing very good.

    • Chris H

      Between the two I think Choo is the better player given what our needs are. Unless you really value Ellsbury’s defense I think you have to lean towards Choo, since we already had Gardner for the defense in CF Choo made more. If you want a leadoff hitter Choo is better than Ellsbury, in fact he was the best leadoff guy in all of baseball last year. But I think in our lineup Choo would’ve been perfect hitting second or third, just look at his career numbers vs RHP .309/.411/.521, that’s a .932 OPS, a .212 ISO, .402 wOBA, and a 154 wRC+ career vs RHP. He’d replace Cano as the big left handed bat against right handed pithing, I know he struggles vs LHP but he still provides value by getting on base and posting a .680 OPS against them. Ultimatley with Gardner already aboard I think the case for Choo makes itself. That said I don’t hate the Ellsbury signing, it just wasn’t the best move between the two for our team.

      • Winter Meetings

        Perhaps, but I think you’re putting too much value on Gardner having an active role with the Yanks going forward. You make a compelling argument for year 1, but considering Choo will probably receive 5-7 years on a contract, I take Ellsbury considering Gardner probably wasn’t in the long term plans. Looking at the totality of the Yanks needs, I think they did this the right way locking up Ellsbury and working from a position of strength to use Gardner and Romine (for example) as two valuable (to differing degrees) trade chips. This should produce a pitcher in some regard. The other option was to sign Garza, Jimenez, etc for an extended period of time to a high dollar contract. I just think the Yanks are showing that they do in fact have a very clear plan in mind.

        • Chris H

          Personally I don’t believe there is any chance Gardner has value enough to get the kind of pitcher you want in return, or one the Yankees would part with him for. Ultimately I think Gardner is starting in LF come opening day, as he should be. I’d much rather sign Choo to a 7 year deal and re-sign Gardner at the end of the year (preferably extension now) than have Ellsbury on a 7 year deal and let Gardner walk at the end of next year.

          • Winter Meetings

            Disagree with Choo. We’ll just have different opinions and that’s fine, but I think the Yanks made the better choice at even money.

  • https://twitter.com/KramerIndustry Kramerica Industries

    Mike, Ben, and Joe are all publishing columns right now.

    RAB is back!

  • Rick

    Have seen the Yanks linked to Samardzija numerous times today. Realistically, he’s probably a low end #2/ high end #3 in the AL. He’s a FA after the 2015 season, and got $2.5M to avoid arbitration last year, so relatively cost controlled.

    Anyone have any idea what a realistic package would be for him?

    • Nuke Guy

      He would probably cost way too much. His numbers aren’t impressive and I think he’s more of a 4/5 starter in the AL East. An ERA of almost 4.40 is not special at all.

      • Rick

        I think 4/5 may be under selling him based on the stuff alone. He’s your typical dreamer. The stuff is great, has some control problems. He’s an innings eater though. My biggest worry is being home prone. Just curious as to what a package would be. Would a Heathcott centered package get it done?

        • Chris H

          Not a chance, any package for Jeff would start and end with Sanchez given the other teams who would be in on him.

          • Rick

            Would you give up your top prospect for him? Seems going back and re-reading Axisa’s article at the deadline last year, he has a top prospect (Sanchez), a top 100 (Heathcott/Williams), and a B and C. Would you do that?

            • Chris H

              I didn’t say what I would give up for him I said that’s what Theo’s going to want. Enough teams will be on Smardzjia, who has enough upside, that a Heathcott package isn’t getting it done. Pretty much any of the pitchers being mentioned right now we can be outbid for in overall package, so in order to even be in the conversation they’ll have to dangle Sanchez. That’s not a should or shouldn’t scenario that’s just where they’ll have to start for most of these guys unless there is no market for them.

              • Rick

                I know. I was just curious if you’d make that deal.

                • Chris H

                  It depends on what is involved in the deal, I might do Sanchez and Heathcott because I’ve never believed in Slade and Sanchez is blocked behind the plate for at least 3 or 4 years. I’m not giving up all our top prospects for him but I’d be in legitimate talks to trade for him. I will say that all I heard for years was we can’t trade Montero because he’s the next Miggy, I don’t prospect hug like that.

              • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

                Agreed.

                Unsure as to my level of interest. Just not a fan of poor control guys. Visions of “bad AJ” begin to dance in my head and out of the strike zone.

                • Chris H

                  I don’t see Smardzija as a “poor control” guy really. I mean a 2.89 BB/9 and a 3.29 BB/9 or a 3.21 and 2,74 K/BB ratio in his first two years starting seems pretty good. You might expect the walks to go up in the AL but I don’t think we’re looking at a 4 BB/9 guy after the transition.

      • Chris H

        His numbers aren’t impressive? In his two seasons as a starter he has posted a 9.27 K/9, 2.89 BB/9 and a 9.01 K/9, 3.29 BB/9. He limits HRs, he had a 48% ground ball percentage this year in 213 innings, and his FIP the past two seasons have been better than his ERA at 3.55 in 2012 and 3.77 this year. On top of that he’s still under 30, he averaged over 94 MPH on both his fastball this year, and he one of the nastiest sliders in all of baseball, plus a pretty decent split. Look beyond the ERA before you say Jeff Smardzjia doesn’t have tremendous upside.

        • Nuke Guy

          He does have a lot of upside, but he isn’t going to be worth what they’re asking for him.

          • Chris H

            Two different questions, saying he won’t be worth the asking price isn’t the same as saying he “isn’t impressive” and calling him a 4th or 5th starter.

            • Nuke Guy

              I’m not impressed with his numbers. He would be behind Sabathia, Kuroda, and Nova. That’s also implying they don’t add one Tanaka, Garza, or another pitcher.

              • Rick

                Oh he’s most certainly better than Nova. And that’s not even close.

              • Chris H

                I can see not being impressed with his 2013 ERA but other than there is nothing unimpressive about his numbers, especially since he’s a 29 year old two year starter who should only get better. I’d certainly put him above Tanaka and Garza in any rotation.

              • sevrox

                Samardjiza’s name ends in a vowel, therefore he’s IN. I really hope Gardner stays a Yankee – watching him and Ellsbury wreak havoc before they both go on the DL will be some games worth watching.

        • Now Batting

          At some point you have to factor in, you know, the earned runs a pitcher actual give up. K/9 BB/9 FIP etc. are all great for projecting but results matter once it’s said and done.

          • Chris H

            FIP is more accurate in determining what a pitcher has actually done, ERA is reliant on other factors outside of a pitchers control. We aren’t talking about a 10 or even 5 year starter who has a career under performing his FIP here, it’s a two year starter who just hit the 200 inning mark for the first time with some of the best pure stuff in baseball. I wouldn’t mortgage the farm to get him but there’s more to it than “his ERA is in the 4′s write him off”.

    • nycsportzfan

      I would offer alot, simply becasue i still think hes got his best seasons ahead of him, and hes a pitcher of fairly young age, and could be around here as a reliable starting pitcher for the next 5-7yrs. Something like Gardner, Phelps, and Austin is what i’d offer.

  • jim p

    Gardner ain’t going nowhere. Maybe, maybe, for a top-tier pitcher. But otherwise it doesn’t make sense. The outfield defense is outstanding with him, mediocre without him. Plus, two guys who can run up pitch counts and steal bases (and Gardner will become more aggressive/successful just by osmosis from being with Ells).

    Garner among AL OF with 300 ABs in 2013 is in the top 8 to 15 (of 55) in almost every category.

    What we need is for Jeter to look at Ryan’s highlight reel, and then be asked “Derek, how can you help this team win?” He moves to 3B, saves some physical wear from being on the field. We sign Infante, Reynolds for backup at third, and first, and there’s our team for position players.

    Release Wells and trade Ichiro for … whatever gets him off the roster.

    DH? Beltran, Soriano, Jeter, McCann, and Tex need some DH time. Figure a dozen for Tex, and 30-40 each for the others, depending on circumstances. A day off here and there.

    We’ve got a dynamic offense with Gardner, and a much better defense. It would have to be an amazing offer for it to make sense.

    • Winter Meetings

      Well, I can say that 98% of what you just wrote isn’t happening.

      Gardner will be traded. The Yanks have a desirable asset from depth and a player who is under contract for 1 year. You take advantage of those situations when you have them. That’s how you build a team looking forward.

      Jeter isn’t moving to 3rd base. Not in this reality or the alternate reality. He will DH or play at SS or retire. Those are his 3 options. End o story on that.

      No reason to release Wells. He is a righty swinging durable bench guy. The Yanks need players like this right now. He’s essentially free, so no need to just “dump” him unless someone better at relatively inexpensive cost can take his roster spot. I don’t see it.

      Ichiro will not be traded, despite the one liner about the Giants. Gardner has more value in terms of trade value and Ichiro has more value in terms of revenue dollars for the Yanks. It’s one year and a win win that way.

      • Chris H

        Vernon Wells hit .269/.318/.379 against LHP why does being right handed make him valuable if he OPS’s under .700 against LHP.

        • Winter Meetings

          man, you’re a tough nut to crack. You ok, man?

          He’s already under contract. He is free. He fills a bench role. He bats from the right side. You let him come to spring training. It’s his spot to lose. He’s a guy that’s easy to let go, but for now, considering cost, and other needs, it’s not someone that needs to be dumped.

          • Chris H

            Ok? I just disagree with you nothing more. Sure let him come to ST if you want but there has to be something behind “being right handed” in order for it to matter. It’s not even a one year thing in 2012 he hit .227/.298/.373 vs LHP. There’s no real value to keeping a right handed outfielder who fields badly, can’t hit LHP, and is even worse against RHP. He costs nothing to let go yet you could upgrade by signing almost any scrap heap righty at this point.

          • Need Pitching & Hitting

            He doesn’t fill any role well. There is no reason to expect him to fill any role well.
            No need to carry a useless player.

      • jim p

        Oh. I was talking about fielding a winning team, one that gets to the World Series in 2014. That’s different.

        As far as trading Gardner one trades to improve chances of winning, not because you have a valuable asset. By the ‘valuable asset so trade now’ idea, the Yanks should have traded Ruth and Gehrig in 1928. But they planned to win it all that year, too.

  • D

    The Yankees should sign Stephen Drew to be the shortstop and move Jeter to third base.

    There. That’s the abridged version for the one to three snarky sentences or paragraphs RAB moron crowd – happy?

    • Nuke Guy

      The Yankees should sign Drew to play second base and keep Jeter at SS unless he’s better off at DH.

    • Rick

      Snarky says the guy who commented “Send Jeter’s ass to Seattle if he doesn’t like it.”

    • BFDeal

      I bet you can’t comment under your original screen name.

      • Get Phelps Up (looking for a new name)

        I don’t think we can even use his original screen name in a comment.

        • Rick

          Lol what’s his original screen name?

          • Pat D

            I tried to post it, but it’s not showing up.

            Put it this way: The “D” is short for “Duh.” The second part of his handle was the unit of measurement for how long pitchers pitch, so that it rhymes with “Winnings.”

            I guess his original intent was to make some kind of Charlie Sheen reference. We’ve long determined that Sheen has more rationality and sanity left than does “D.”

            • Rick

              Very sad. There are clearly some major issues going on.

              • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

                Read the thread GPU pointed at here for a good laugh, and a bit of deja vu:

                http://riveraveblues.com/2013/.....nt-7819889

                Mike always says this about the trolls: they may change their name, but they always revert back to the same behavior.

                • Rick

                  I’ve been a follower of the blog for years (back since 08 at least), but just recently started commenting. It’s people like him that are the reason I never commented before. By and large though, I think this is a very knowledgable community.

  • W.B. Mason Williams

    Indians say they’re thinking about moving Masterson. He’s got a year of arbitration left.

    Gardner, Phelps, Turley and Refsnyder get something like this done?

    • Nuke Guy

      Would they have room for Gardner? Brantley, Bourn, and Swisher in the OF but I don’t know who else they have. I wouldn’t mind a Masterson deal if the price is right.

      Sanchez, Montgomery, Murphy, and Turley sounds like a good deal to me.

      • W.B. Mason Williams

        That’s a good point.

        Oof, Sanchez and Murphy? I don’t know man.

        Murphy, Montgomery, Turley and O’Brien is something I’d do.

        Masterson is a legit #2 starter, but he’s only got one year of arbitration left.

        • Nuke Guy

          Yeah, it makes you think a little bit. But we do have McCann, Romine, and Cervelli. Maybe replace Murphy with Heathcott? I have a feeling that Heathcott isn’t going to be anything special but I hope I’m wrong.

      • Chris H

        They’re starting Swisher at 1B unless I missed an announcement they’ve moved him. They just signed David Murphy to be the left handed platoon bat in RF with Stubbs.

        • Rick

          Forgot they had Stubbs. I’m not sure Masterson is worth giving up Sanchez for. I’d wait one more year when Sanchez is right on the brink of the show to flip him.

          • Chris H

            Plus you could just wait until next year and sign Masterson. I’d give up Sanchez for Smardzjia way before Masterson who still has very large L/R (.316 wOBA/.238) and home/road (3.09/3.86 this year) splits. He keeps the ball on the ground but he’s not nearly the same pitcher in Yankee Stadium to me.

        • Nuke Guy

          I didn’t even know he was playing first now. Forgot about Stubbs also.

          Sanchez, Heathcott, Montgomery, and Turley. I’d do that.

          • Chris H

            I’d pass, as I said you only get one year of team control before free agency and he has huge home/road right/left splits. You’d be better off keeping the young talent, if you really want him sign him next year.

    • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

      No. You’re going the full monty and giving up Sanchez + there.

  • Dan

    Anyone think the Yanks could go after Rajal Davis? He’d be pretty cheap, and it would nullify the argument that you shouldn’t trade Gardner because of the needed depth.

    • Chris H

      Rajia Davis in 2013 .260/.312/.375, Brett Gardner in 2013 .273/.344/.416, Rajai Davis career .268/.316/.377, Gardner career .268/.352/.381. All the defensive metrics suggest at best Davis is average in the outfield, probably slightly under, and Gardner is elite. There’s no way signing Davis makes Gardner expendable.

      • Rick

        I appreciate the research and thought for your comments

        • Chris H

          As long as you aren’t being sarcastic (I don’t think so but you can never tell haha) thank you!

  • Rick

    Executives who spoke to Passan on Monday pegged a deal in the six-year, $100MM range for Tanaka, if he’s posted.

    Wow

    • Jorge Steinbrenner (the rarely spoken-of sibling)

      I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I’m not surprised.

    • Farewell Mo

      Front of the rotation starting pitching isn’t cheap.

      If he turns out to be a #2 starter or better, 6/$100 for a 25 year old is probably a bargain.

      • Rick

        Just thinking of how much the money has shifted from the posting fee to the player. Personally, I think the new system is the better system.

        • Farewell Mo

          Yeah. That blind bid system was totally in favor of the Japanese league. I don’t know how MLB agreed to that in the first place.

          • Chris H

            Shouldn’t it be though? These are players under contract with a team in another league, shouldn’t they get some kind of compensation for allowing their players to break said contract? Would an American team ever let a top player break his contract to go play somewhere else for more money?

            • Farewell Mo

              $50 million just to have the right to negotiate a contract with the player?

              Seems a bit excessive to me. IMO, $20 million is more than fair. Seems the Japanese baseball leadership agrees with that too.

              • Chris H

                Sure it’s excessive but I never understood the complaining about the posting system when teams don’t have to agree to let them out of their contracts at all.

      • Chris H

        I have serious doubts about if he translates that well. Most reports say he “reaches 96″ but in truth he averaged under 91 MPH last year and has for his entire NPB career. He seems to be a guy with mostly average stuff, outside of the splitter, who relies on control. You have to assume the walks will go up from his under 2 BB/9 Japanese numbers and the strikeouts could fall. I wouldn’t bet against him being a low to mid 3′s walk guy and a mid to high 7′s K guy, which could turn into a number 2 but more likely settles him into the middle of the rotation. I also worry about his arm, he is only 25 but they have thoroughly abused him. He’s seen 160+ pitches fairly regularly and he has a history of coming out of the bullpen one one and no days rest many times. I have a feeling his arm is much older than 25 with the wear and tear it’s seen.

        • W.B. Mason Williams

          Well he pretty much carries a regular MLB workload every season. They only pitch once a week.

          His career high for IP was 226, which is definitely high. But again that’s the topmost. Most seasons he hasn’t even eclipsed 200.

          • Chris H

            Yeah I wasn’t talking about innings pitched, which I think is much less a factor in injuries. I was talking about pitches thrown, he’s no stranger to 160+ pitches in the NPB and when he was in high school he had 200+ pitch games. Plus the whole coming in the day after a start and pitching several innings on more than one occasion. The innings don’t worry me, it’s the amount of pitches they’ve crammed into those innings that do.

    • forensic

      Not too surprised, and I’d still absolutely go for it. I think you have to take the risk for someone so young with great potential, especially in the situation the Yankees are in with their rotation.

  • Tinashe

    Any yankee fans ever thought about contacting Tanaka’s twitter en masse http://twitter.com/t_masahiro18 and implore him to come to want to be posted & play for the yankees?

    • forensic

      For some reason, I don’t think flooding a guy’s twitter account with “Yo Masa, come to da Yankees!!!” comments are the best way to lure a guy to play for your team.

  • Farewell Mo

    I don’t really care much about politics but it seems ridiculous to me that Nelson Mandela will have a plaque in monument park. Nothing against him and he certainly was a remarkable person but why him and not Gandhi, Abraham Lincoln or anyone of a hundred other non baseball people equally deserving??

    Monument park should be for Yankee greats and/or baseball greats and that’s pretty much it.

    • Rick

      Yea, but “During a triumphant visit by Nelson Mandela to New York in June 1990, shortly after he had been released from a South African prison, one of his most memorable stops was a rally and concert at Yankee Stadium, where he put on a team cap and jacket and proclaimed, “I am a Yankee.”

      To commemorate that moment and the life of Mandela, the South African leader who died last week at 95, the Yankees will place a plaque in Monument Park. It will be unveiled on Jackie Robinson Day, April 15, when the Yankees play the Chicago Cubs.”

      I just hope the plaque doesn’t look like Morgan Freeman.

      • Farewell Mo

        I saw Cardinal O’Connor at YS2 while attending a catholic HS in the 80s, the Beatles played at YS2 when they came to the US, Mohammed Ali fought Ken Norton in a classic at YS2, Jay Z made a Yankee cap more famous than the Yankees did and none of them have plaques either.

        I guess when he dies, Rudy Giuliani will get a plaque too.

        • Pseudoyanks

          Three Popes have plaques out there.

        • Bob Buttons

          Jay-Z was gonna get a plaque after his death but the Yanks scrapped that idea after what happened with Cano.

    • Pistol Pete

      I think it’s a great gesture. Three popes are out there and Mandella certainly did more for humanity, freedom, equality and sacrificed with little or no vengeance. Great idea, a true leader and one of the world’s greatest humanitarians ever.

      • Farewell Mo

        All of what you said is 100% true.

        Mandela and the Popes still don’t belong out there

      • Jimmy

        Why would you come to a baseball site and compare Nelson Mandela to John Paul II like its a competition? I could persuasively argue against that, but its not the time or the place. You made your point very well: Mandela had his Yankee Stadium moment, he was a great man and its appropriate for him to get a plaque there. Isn’t that enough for you? You need to rate Mandela as better than the three popes honored there?

    • forensic

      I agree.

    • Darren

      Gandhi was a Mets fan.

  • nsalem

    I don’t think the Yankees are as hot trade Gardner as many here seem to think. If healthy having a left fielder (especially in YS3) with his defensive skills has tremendous value. I also would not be shocked to see Jeter coming to and stating he is willing to play any postion the Yankees wanted him to play. I think his willingness to be flexible gives the Yankees the best chance at success in 2014. What he probably wants most is more rings and he must realize by now that his chances of remaining a Yankee beyond 2014 is his acceptance of a different role on the team. I would also not be surprised if the organization has addressed this matter with him. Maybe his ego is not as big as we believe.

    • forensic

      I mostly agree with your first two sentences, though I think they’d take the hit in the OF if they were able to get a mid-rotation type pitcher (i.e. Homer Bailey type of guy).

      On your Jeter stuff, I couldn’t disagree more. I would be absolutely shocked to my core if he suddenly came in to ST and said to play him anywhere. I also don’t think he believes that flexibility is the key to his role on the Yankees beyond 2014 and I think there’s no way in hell that the organization has addressed any of this with him already.

      • nsalem

        You very well may be right. My rationale behind my statements is this. I would do Bailey for Gardner also but the Reds would ask for Sanchez which the Yanks would nix. They would counter with Romine or Murphy which I don’t believe the Yankees would do. The other name that has been mentioned is Samardzija which I don’t think the Yankees would do. They may be better of going after Bartolo with the reasoning being Bart and Gardner>Samardzija. Samardzija is much more of a question mark than Gardner. I don’t know enough about this but the match for Gardner may not exist. Gardner for Sandoval may be tempting, but it would just fill one need while creating another.
        As far as Jeter goes, there is a good possiblity that due to is injury and age that his defense may become so subpar that the Yankees will not be willing to blow up the season to satisfy his (perceived) demand to play SS and if this unfortunately happens Derek may finally see the writing on the wall and submit to the Yankee’s requests. It’s a delicate situation, but everybody gets old. I see Derek as a valuable piece but no lomger an everyday shortstop. Babe Ruth was traded in the end as was Williw Mays. Jackie Robinson was traded to the Giants and Rizzuto was released on an August 31 roster swap so the Yankee’s could get some good pinch hitting for the
        WS back in 56. It was either for Johnny Mize or Enos Slaughter, I forget which.
        I’m not stating that any of these things will happen, just that I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. Your take on this may very well be th correct one as oppossed to mine.

  • WhittakerWalt

    Roy Halladay for the Hall of Fame? I vote Yes.

    • Rick

      Easily yes.

    • RetroRob

      Yes. I’m all about peak. He’s a HOFer.

      • Farewell Mo

        If you’re all about peak, do you think Mattingly deserves to get it?

        • Pat D

          Mattingly’s peak wasn’t long enough.

          • WhittakerWalt

            Short peak + fell off a cliff + NO significant counting stats = Sorry, Donnie.

    • Bob Buttons

      No, and it wasn’t a hard decision for me. It’s not hall of what-ifs or hall of domination. He’s a tad low on WAR for me, since my standard is roughly around 70-ish for starters.

      • Bob Buttons

        FWIW I am in support of Smoltz, who has a similar war in roughly half a decade longer career, because he spent some time as reliever.

      • WhittakerWalt

        I always thought it definitely was Hall of Domination. In fact that’s the argument usually brought up by people who are against “compilers” – they were just good for a long period of time instead of great for a shorter period. Halladay was great, really great. He just doesn’t have the usual counting stats. That’s why I think it’s a good debate to have.

        • Bob Buttons

          Yes I have to say in reality it’s more of hall of domination, for the most part. Not the way I have it, but it is what it is. Ford, Koufax and people got in on account of domination or “intangibles”. Waite Hoyt and people got in on “old-timer” effect. Do I think that Halladay is better than a lot of guys in the hall? Hell yes. Would I include him in the ideal hall of fame? I paused a bit and my thought was no.

          However, I think he’ll probably get in before the 8th year. He had his moments, played on some winning teams, was one of the best in his era, and flat-out killed in AL East. He’s not a horrible media personality (a good one, IMO), and never killed anyone with a spitball. There are just too many reasons to vote him in, and while I don’t particularly value them individually, some of the writers are strange, judgmental and self-righteous people who judges arbitrarily.

          I guess what I’m trying to say is: I see him getting in after a few years, maybe a handful. I just wouldn’t ever vote for him if I had a vote, because he doesn’t fit my mold. My standard of 70 WAR isn’t really too hard. Basically 14 seasons of 5 each doesn’t seem too demanding, for a place that’s meant to enshrine all the greats with superior feats, not a place where all the pretty good players get to join because they’re pretty good and they aren’t despicable human beings (this part may be ignored). Of course domination is a factor too, because I would never let a person with 28 seasons totalling 70 WAR in.

    • Dalek Jeter

      Hands down Yes.

      • Farewell Mo

        If he’s in hands down then so must Mike Mussina.

        • Dalek Jeter

          I think Mike Mussina’s a HOF’er too.

          • Farewell Mo

            I think they both get in, just not on the first ballot though.

    • Get Phelps Up (looking for a new name)

      http://www.baseball-reference......g_standard

      Most of that was in the AL East in an era dominated by offense. Yes.

      • Bob Buttons

        WAR, to my understanding, is era-adjusted, so the WAR criteria does account for the era they are in.

    • forensic

      I don’t really care too much about the HOF anymore, but yeah, I think Halladay is a HOFer.

  • Pseudoyanks

    Comments off was probably a good idea on that other post. FWIW, and nothing to do with politics, I think it is all right to have Important Visitor plaques out there. It is a museum of sorts after all.

    • Bob Buttons

      Still would be more orderly than the mess we got at the top here.

    • Dalek Jeter

      Agreed on all counts. Look how ridiculous things got talking about trading Jeter and other ridiculousness. Imagine talking about actual real world things…

      • Bob Buttons

        Over/Under on string of comments over “Best-tasting” fast food chain: 127.5

        • WhittakerWalt

          Fatburger

        • Dalek Jeter

          Shake Shack or Steak and Shake.

  • http://www.penuel-law.com/ Cuso

    Holy shit, I was sick to myself for not starting the Chiefs D this week and was down 31.5 points coming into MNF.

    My opponent had DeMarco left.

    I had McCown left.

    Eked the 1.5 pt win.

  • Pistol Pete

    What would it cost to sign Infante. Being unsure at second SS and third is too much to gamble for a team that’s trying to make the playoffs. He’s no Cano but far cheaper and he had a good year last season and is steady. Three years 25m.

    • Farewell Mo

      I’d go that high though I suspect he might get 3/$30 million

    • Bob Buttons

      A lot of people pegged him at 3/30. Might as well let Johnson ride it out and hope one of Hanley/Asdrubal/Hardy hits the market. Even Lowrie might be a better option. 2012 netted him almost 3 bWAR, which is roughly the average Infante has over the last four years, but Lowrie is roughly 2 years younger and less BA-dependent.

      • Farewell Mo

        I wouldn’t have a problem with Kelly Johnson as the heavy half of a platoon at 2nd or 3rd but he’s pretty inadequate as an everyday player at either position

        • Bob Buttons

          I’m just unwilling to overpay for a guy on a market that’s kinda thin when there’s a much richer crop next year in the way of SSs who probably could handle 2B.

          • Farewell Mo

            They already overpaid for Ellsbury and Beltran. No reason to stop now.

            Nothing obscene but I’d go 3/$30. Worst case scenario he moves to 3rd base or becomes a super utility guy for the 2nd and 3rd years of the deal if they can get an upgrade for 2nd next year.

          • Chris H

            Why would you sign a SS next year to play second when you need to sign a SS next year to play SS? Plus not many full time starting SS give up playing SS in the middle of their careers outside of Alex. Hardy and Asdrubal are going to get paid to play SS from someone next year, there’s no reason for either to consider a move without being drastically outbid and we have no one to move them for anyway.

            • forensic

              Well, I see after my delay on posting while not refreshing the page, that you basically made all the same points.

              But, you didn’t have anything about Home Run Joe, so HA! I win!

          • forensic

            While somewhat true that there are some moderately intriguing SS’s next offseason, there’s certainly no guarantee that one of them would agree to move to 2B. If another team offers a similar contract where they stay at their current position, I see no reason that they would want to go to the Yankees instead and have to change positions. Plus, it’s very possible that the Yankees will need a starting SS from the market next offseason too.

            Meanwhile, on a somewhat unrelated note, how awesome is BR.com? While looking up a couple of these SS’s, in particular Hanley, I came across a guy whose nickname was “Home Run Joe”, who never hit a homerun in his short career. Where else can you get that kind of info?

            http://www.baseball-reference......jo01.shtml

      • Chris H

        Why not just sign the slightly above average 2B Infante to play 2B, with Johnson at 3B this year until (IF) Alex comes back. Then next year you sign Asdrubal or Hardy to play SS, since you know ours should retire at the end of 2014 regardless of how he does. Then you cover 2B and 3B this year and have 2B and SS covered for the next two.

  • sevrox

    In the middle of reading Francona’s bio (with Shaughnessy) of his years in Boston. Very interesting read, and he’s not afraid of throwing Lester, Beckett, and Lackey under the bus re: their ‘tudes and antics that helped lead to the 2011 implosion. Highly recommend it, even if yer a Yank fan, which I am.

  • fred robbins

    Of all the comments on this page, the most accurate about Jeter is that He was a selfish egomaniac when Arod joined the team. It was obvious from the 1st day of the trade that Jeter should move to 3rd where is limited range would not be as big a problem. It is hard to figure that Yankee brass would not have broached this subject before making a 10 year deal. But Arod proved to be the bigger man.
    The fact that the Yankees have no talent to offer any other team in order to get an impact player and that NOT ONE development person or Cashman has been fired, should tell anyone who cares that the Yankees are one of the worst run organizations– from a fan stand point– I know they make money– but it is not on the field except on almost useless over paid, old players almost gone.
    fred

    • Darren

      Let me get this straight. You’re one of the best players in the game. Your rival signs the biggest contract of all time but can’t get along with his manager, ownership or teammates. Your own GM trades for him, even though he plays the same position as you. The GM never asks you your opinion, nor should he – you’re just a player and you do what you’re told. The team NEVER broaches the subject of moving to third base with you. And yet you’re supposed to make the call that it would be better for you to move, potentially throwing your whole game off kilter, for perhaps a 20% upgrade at SS. And if you don’t proactively offer to move you’re an asshole? ARod was the bigger man? Yes, he’s certainly proved how much integrity he has over the years, hasn’t he.