Fan Confidence Poll: May 14th, 2012


Record Last Week: 5-2 (25 RS, 20 RA)
Season Record: 19-15 (166 RS, 149 RA, 19-15 pythag. record), 2.5 games back in AL East
Opponents This Week: @ Orioles (two games, Mon. to Tues.), @ Blue Jays (two games, Weds. to Thurs.), vs. Reds (three games, Fri. to Sun.)

Top stories from last week:

Please take a second to answer the poll below and give us an idea of how confident you are in the team. You can view the interactive Fan Confidence Graph anytime via the nav bar above, or by clicking here. Thanks in advance for voting.

Given the team's current roster construction, farm system, management, etc., how confident are you in the Yankees' overall future?
View Results
Categories : Polls


  1. Avi says:

    Fire Cashman and I go from a 6 to a 9.

    • Avi says:

      I’m convinced he has photos of Hank and Hall Steinbrenner doing something they don’t want the rest of the world knowing about.

      • CP says:

        Or it could be the fact that the Yankees have the most wins and World Series titles during his time as GM.

        But you’re probably right. It’s a blackmail thing, not the fact that he’s consistently won.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          The Yankees can’t just win anymore, now they have to win my way.

        • Manny's BanWagon says:

          I don’t think it’s right to fire Cashman but let’s be real, out of the last 5 world series wins, he can take credit for only the last one. The core of those teams were built without much input from him.

          • jsbrendog says:

            yeah so if someone else came in and made different mvoes they wouldn’t have won.

            • jsbrendog says:

              english fail by me.

              what i meant was he can take credit for anything they won while he was in office because he is the guy who signed and brought along basically everyone but the “core four tru yankees (trademark copyright etc etc)”

              and if someone else came in and made different moves how do you know they still would have won?

              • Manny's BanWagon says:

                Those teams were built by Stick Michaels. If you wanna give Cashman credit for not fucking things up, that’s fine but that’s about the best you can do.

                • jsbrendog says:

                  no, no they weren’t. michael was not the gm after the strike. any personnel moves made after then, including 95 and on were bob watson for a yr then brian cashman. and those teams were definitely winners due to the depth. was the core there? yup. but cashman brought in the pitching non pettitte and key and also filled out the roster with depth.

                  • Manny's BanWagon says:

                    Graeme Lloyd

                    All brought in BEFORE Cashman took over as GM in 1998. Sure, Cashman made some moves to keep the train rolling but almost all the major pieces were in place before he took over.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            He was a major cog in the FO before taking over… I doubt they just promoted someone who had little impact to GM for the fun of it.

            • Manny's BanWagon says:

              Total Speculation.

              • I am not the droids you're looking for... says:

                Dude seriously? It’s “speculation” in that we don’t actually know specifically, but to treat the real world of business personnel transactions as some mystical black box into which we can have no insight or reasonably informed opinions is ludicrous.

                • Manny's BanWagon says:

                  You’re seriously trying to give Cashman credit for moves when he wasn’t in charge that you have absolutely no idea how much input, if any, into making?

                  Give me a break.

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    You are not giving him credit when you have no idea what impact he actually had… it goes both ways.

                    You didn’t say, “he wasn’t the final decision maker.” I would have had no problem with that. What you said exactly was: “The core of those teams were built without much input from him.” You are the one who started the baseless speculation. Not anyone else. Stop.

                    • Manny's BanWagon says:

                      You are a fool and I will not waste my day arguing semantics with a mentally defective person.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      LOL… so in other words you’re wrong and can’t admit it?

                      You speculate over what role Cashman might have had, then I point out you’re speculating and say it’s overwhelmingly likely you are wrong… and you can’t just be a big boy and admit you were wrong?

              • Ted Nelson says:

                In the 12 years he was with the organization he failed to make an impact, then they promoted him to GM?

                You are speculating as much as I am. At least my speculation is logical.

        • Avi says:

          He’s done more harm than good. He’s an asset to every other team in the game. If you don’t see it that way I think as much of your baseball acumen as I do Cashman’s.

          • Mike Axisa says:

            Explain this whole “done more harm than good” thing. This I have to see.

          • Mike Axisa says:

            Just to be clear, I think there are very legitimate reasons to be upset with some of Cashman’s decisions. I just don’t see nearly enough to warrant replacing him. This is a result-based business and city, and his are undeniable. All the Yankees do is win year after year.

            • Avi says:

              Well I hated about a dozen of the big moves he’s made in the last decade. Maybe that’s why I’m more critical.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Which moves?

                • CP says:

                  Probably moves like signing A-Rod to that ridiculous contract, signing Soriano, trading for Mondesi, trading for Randy Johnson, and giving Jeter the extra option year on his contract.

                  • Ted Nelson says:


                    • CP says:

                      Not sure I’d classify it as sarcasm. Those are probably the moves (or at least the type of move) that he hated. Just because they were pushed by ownership over his objections probably doesn’t matter.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      That’s why I assumed it was sarcasm… not liking Cashman for moves it’s publicly known he didn’t make…

              • Cris Pengiucci says:

                You hated about 12 moves in 10 years and that’s the basis to fire someone? Show me one GM that hasn’t made at least 12 bad moves in 10 years. And because you hated them that’s also the basis to fire him?

          • Alkaline says:

            So in other words, only my opinion is fact. If you don’t agree with me, you obviously know nothing about baseball.

            (And ignore the fact I never provided any evidence that he’s an asset to every team in MLB but the Yanks).

    • Mike Axisa says:

      Without knowing who the replacement is?

    • jsbrendog says:

      why is cashman bad and why do you want him fired? what has he done that is so bad esp when compared to 80% of other gms? who would you replace him with? “someone good!!!1!11!”


      • Avi says:

        How about Friedman? Maybe then we’ll have a good starter in the next quarter century.

        • jsbrendog says:

          oh you mean the guy who drafted all those great pitchers high in the first half of the draft because his team sucked so bad for so long he had tons of high picks?

          the rays have been good for what, 4 years? talk to me when anyof the pitchers they’ve drafted since they stopped sucking do anything

          • Avi says:

            Yeah exactly. All the great pitchers he drafted so high in the draft; like Hellickson and Matt Moore and James Shields. Wait wat?

            • Mike Axisa says:

              Shields was there long before Friedman and Matt Moore looks like shit.

              • JohnnyC says:

                Friedman is a financial whiz not a development guy. His baseball people make the personnel decisions. He’s the guy who figures out how to field a contending team on a shoestring budget by locking up young players to economical contracts and picking up low-cost veterans. See Rafael Soriano, Kyle Farnsworth, Carlos Pena, and Luke Scott.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  All GMs manage other people. Same with Cashman and everyone else. It’s their job. It’s tough to measure from the outside, but ultimately it comes through in the results.

            • CP says:

              Would you trade Nova for Hellickson right now?

        • Avi says:

          I’ve also been impressed with John Daniels (Darvish not withstanding) and AA in Toronto. There are very bright baseball people out there. We’re the NY Yankees, we get the BEST players money can buy. You can get a great GM for a fraction of the cost.

          • Tom Swift says:

            Will Axisa work for minimum wage? To be GM of the Yankees? He’ll moonlight as a bartender if he has to!

          • Ted Nelson says:

            They do have a great GM…

            • Kevin Winters says:

              They do?

              • Ted Nelson says:

                Yeah… they do. His decisions have been good the overwhelming majority of the time. He’s made some mistakes, sure. But over a relevant sample any GM will.

                His results speak for themselves. And his results aren’t all about buying expensive talent. He’s put a good team together with Epp, Opp, and Co. who have developed a strong farm system, and found bargain MLB players left and right.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  What’s your argument that they don’t?

                  People keep giving these one line answers that Cashman should be fired… with no explanation or analysis of his record at all.

                  • Manny's BanWagon says:

                    Great GM? I’m calling BS on that one.

                    Average to slightly above average GM who has had tremendous success mostly due to a core that was in place before he took over and due to the Yankees huge financial advantages.


                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Every GM inherits talent and many GMs who don’t have a financial advantage have a draft picks advantage. It’s been over 15 years since Cashman took the job… inheriting core players no longer explains his success. He’s rebuilt the team multiple times now.

                      The two hot GMs right now are are Friedman and AA. Friedman inherited a ton of former top picks that have been the core of his teams. AA inherited not only the best P in baseball, but also the best hitter in baseball.

                      When I look at Cashman’s entire record, I see a great decision maker. No need to correct me. I stand behind that. Way more good decisions than bad. Everyone is going to make mistakes in this business. Everyone. He has made mistakes, but he’s made a lot of good moves as well.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      And inherited the team that continued to give him top picks in Friedman’s case. He took advantage, but every GM can only react to their circumstances.

                    • YanksFanInBeantown says:

                      Well, AA does get credit for signing said best hitter to a 5/65 deal.

                      (And for hypnotizing the Angels)

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Yeah, I think AA has done a good job so far. I don’t think that anyone has even mentioned taking Escobar off the Braves.

                      I just think that Cashman has done a good job as well, and done it over quite a long sample.

                    • Kevin Winters says:

                      Yea average to slightly above average maybe even stretch it to good but great whoa slow down buddy.

                    • Ted Nelson says:

                      Keep going with the one liners and no explanation! Really driving your point home by not explaining it at all or giving any examples.

                      Doing a consistently good job for almost a decade and a half is a great job overall.

          • jsbrendog says:

            AA in tor is the best gm in baseball. he dumped rios, got rid of wells, his entire salary AND GOT A USEFUL PIECE BACK (!!!!!), stole rasmus, got lawrie. i don’t think anyone can even dispute he is currently the best based on what he has done in toronto so far.

            • Andy in Sunny Daytona says:

              Then he traded that useful piece for a worthless piece. Colby Rasmus’ career as a Blue Jay thus far, .198/.244/.344.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              He did not dump Rios. Rios was gone when he got the head job.

              He also traded Mike Napoli for a RP… but why look at the whole picture.

              Colby Rasmus has hardly been a success yet.

              So… yeah, you can definitely dispute him as the best.

            • CS Yankee says:

              He didn’t even let Napoli unpack a bag.

              You know, the kid that hit 20+ while a part time catcher for the Angels…he got a busted up former ranger closer that netted zilch.

              So, AA is good (Wells alone did that) but not perfect by any means. Cash has done better in the scrap heap of former starters, Grandy trade was awesome, and the verdict is still out on Jesus/Pineda.

        • Mike Axisa says:

          What makes you think Friedman would be so successful developing starters when people actually expect his team to win every year?

          • Avi says:

            That’s not the reason the Yanks haven’t developed their own pitchers Mike. The gave plenty of time to Hughes (they’re still giving him time) and Joba. It’s not that he’s traded pitchers away in a way that would be typical of a “win now” team, it’s that he has developed them at all. Furthermore his track record with acquiring starting pitching is sub par. I’d be happy if Cashman stayed on to fill out the lineup and assemble a bullpen actually.

            • Mike Axisa says:

              Joba never got a fair shake in the rotation. A third of his big league starts had some kind of stupid pitch limitation attached to them and he actually pitched very well when they just let him be.

            • CP says:

              They didn’t give Hughes or Joba time. Both were rushed to the majors in 2007. And then they hadn’t been able to pitch a full season (200 innings) in the minors so they had to juggle innings in the majors instead of just shutting them down when they hit their innings limit each season.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Hmm… They didn’t develop Nova? Hughes? Phelps?

              They didn’t develop and then trade IPK in a win now move? Arodys? Noesi?

              That’s a full MLB rotation to go along with 2 top 50 prospects, another top 100 prospect, and some solid back-end prospects in the high minors.

              I don’t think it’s a “win now” mentality that’s stopped them from developing P. I think it’s a combination of not focusing on player development for several years, a little bad luck, and them actually having developed P well recently.

              • jsbrendog says:

                all of those yes except arodys. developing someone means they are what they are, you brought them along, arodys was 19-20 when he was traded and in A ball wasn’t he? he had so much more development left. all those other guys though, yeah, totes

                • CP says:

                  Are you saying that those other guys are little bags?

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  Yeah it’s a lesser degree than the others, but he was in the system for 2.5 years.

                  • JohnnyC says:

                    People tend to forget that most Latino pitching prospects are signed at 17 or even younger. Mariano spent 9 years in the system before he broke through to the big club. Arodys spent more time in the minors than either Joba, Hughes, or IPK.

          • murakami says:

            You don’t base development on what “people” expect. This idea that development opposes “winning every year” is kind of unbelievable. You develop core players to create an enduring foundation that allows for having a real chance every year for several years.

        • MannyGeee says:

          yeah, having ‘good’ pitchers when the draft is in your favor from sucking so badly for a decade…

          I am sure we would trade in 15 years of 90 win seasons for a ‘good’ pitcher.

          • Kevin Winters says:

            Outside of Price and Niemann how many of their first round pitching picks made it to the bigs

            • Ted Nelson says:

              That’s 40% of their starting rotation…

              Outside of CC and Kuroda what big dollar FAs do the Yankees have in their rotation?

              • Kevin Winters says:

                The point is ppl always want to throw cold water of the Rays. “They sucked for a yrs so of course they’re a good team”

                • JohnnyC says:

                  Just from a mathematical POV I’d like to see what the Yankees would’ve done with the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in EVERY round of the draft for more than a decade. So…yeah, the Rays ought to have a pretty decent home-grown team. They may in fact have under-achieved relative to their draft position.

                • Ted Nelson says:

                  My point is that people do the same thing to the Yankees with $. My other point is that people want to make the Rays out to be more than they are.

                  You can say that they’ve done a very good job without ignoring reality to create a false narrative about how they’re a perfect franchise. There has definitely been luck involved and players left over from the previous regime. That’s always the case. There have been several very high picks involved (besides the obvious Price, Niemann, Upton, Longoria… Delmon Young also allowed them to turn a prospect into Garza and Barlett who have been turned over themselves). Just like the Yankees have the money advantage.

                  It’s possible that the Rays will keep turning out stars, but it’s also possible that they’ll hit a rough patch of bad luck like the As and Red Sox did after they were everyone’s golden franchise.

    • Bklyn says:

      I understand the reasons for keeping Cashman, but It wouldnt bother me one bit if he were replaced.

      It seems like the best argument to keep Cashman is that there isn’t a good replacement available.

      • Ted Nelson says:

        The argument is that there isn’t a better replacement available because he’s done a very good job. He has made mistakes, no doubt, but everyone does. On balance he’s made a lot more good moves than bad moves and his team has won every year.

    • JohnnyC says:

      Avi for GM! Now!!

  2. Lord Tywin says:

    7. Here’s what we need to do to get that up to a 10-

    Drop Mark Teixera to 7th in the lineup, below Swisher and below Raul. Mark Teixera needs to work with Kevin Long. He hasn’t done a damn thing to improve. Wasn’t he supposed to be bunting and going the other way to beat the shift? A .220 hitting first baseman is pathetic. Teixera is our Carl Crawford albatross contract.

    • Mike Axisa says:

      He’s been working with Kevin Long since last year. The hitting coach isn’t a cure-all, at some point the responsibility falls on the player to improve himself.

    • LB says:

      Here’s what I’d do w/Teixeira: since he doesn’t hit in April or October (and evidently now May as well), donate his salary in those months to charity.

      I’ll bet he starts hitting then.

    • jsbrendog says:

      teixeira fwar: 0.1

      prince fielder fwar: 0.3


      2011 teixeira had the 6th highest WAR of mlb 1b. he was 9th overall in wrc+.

      relax. then again the fact that you cited batting average means i probably shouldn’t even bother.

      if teix isn’t a top 10 offensive 1b overall by the allstar break i will be shocked.

      • Bubba says:

        If he mentioned the .275 OBP, would you bother?

        I know people worship at the alter of advanced stats, but a .220 AVG sucks no matter what the other numbers say.

        I hope your prediction for the ASB comes true but I wouldn’t hold my breath. The trend since 2009 is not a pretty one and Tex looks completely lost at the plate these days.

      • Bklyn says:

        I’ve become increasingly annoyed at how cool it has become to hate on batting average. It may not be as important as other stats (in some peoples mind) but you can’t dismiss it as easily as everyone has been doing lately. At some point, BA has to matter, and if you disregard someones argument completely because he uses it, your just ignoring it for the sake of your argument.

        • Ted Nelson says:

          It matters only in context, not by itself.

          It’s like FG% in basketball. Say one guy shoots 45% and one guy shoots 35%… you’d guess the first guy scored more points per shot attempt. You might be wrong, though. The second guy might have shot mostly 3 pointers and made all his FTs, while the first guy might have only shot 2s and missed half his FTs.

          If two guys both hit .250… you don’t know much of anything about their offensive performance. Walks? Extra base hits? SBs?

          • Bklyn says:

            I have a 130 IQ but thanks for explaining it to me as if I were a 5th grader. Much appreciated. I finally understand now.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              I wasn’t commenting on your IQ… I was responding to your comment.

              Does anyone really take IQ tests anymore?

              • Ted Nelson says:

                How about using your 130 IQ to actually respond to my points?

                • Bklyn says:

                  What is there to respond to? I don’t disagree with your logic, and you didn’t explain anything to me that I didn’t already understand and agree with.

                  So your comment doesn’t change what I said, does it change the comment that it was targeted for. I was commenting about the growing disrespect for the use of BA that would lead to such comments as…

                  “then again the fact that you cited batting average means i probably shouldn’t even bother.”

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    Batting average is “disrespected” because it’s a useless stat to quote out of context… that’s what I was trying to explain to you… but apparently you aren’t putting your 130 IQ to work…

                    It makes perfect sense to disregard someone who uses BA to summarize someone’s offensive output. Batting average doesn’t summarize someone’s offensive output.

                • Bklyn says:

                  Unfortunately, too many people are blindly dismissing BA without “putting it into context”.

                  As in the case where Mark Teixeira is hitting at a line of .223/.275/.369, but because someone happened to mentioned his dismal .223 BA, instead of his equally dismal .275 OBP or .369 SLG, their response gets no respect.

                  People around these parts have become stat snobs, where its OK to look down on others because they use or still believe in ERA or AVG.

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    This is exactly what I was trying to explain to you before. I wasn’t trying to be patronizing, I was just trying to explain it. It does seem like you need it explained.

                    If you think BA is a summation of player’s offensive output, it stands to reason that your knowledge of baseball is lacking. The stats are used to quantify it… but the reasoning behind them is a fundamental understanding of baseball.

                    BA doesn’t imply Teixiera’s OBP or SLG. Take, for example, Bautista and Pujols so far this season. Comparing BA makes you think they’re both struggling equally… they’re not, though. Bautista is having a far, far superior season to date.

                    If Tex draws a few more walks and hits for more power… he might only bring up his average a few points and still have a radically different finish from here on out than his start to the season.

                    • Bklyn says:

                      Apparently, you don’t know how to read.

                      I don’t disagree with your logic, and you didn’t explain anything to me that I didn’t already understand and agree with.

                      Ted Nelson must be some really primitive AI program written (poorly designed I must add) to constantly repeat the same argument over an over with different dressings each time. I’m done talking to this machine that can’t parse a comment for the logic, but only replies to keywords.

          • YanksFanInBeantown says:

            exactly, Adam Dunn and Jordan Schafer are both hitting .250 right now.

    • murakami says:

      Teixeira actually went opposite on a line drive near the warning track yesterday that the LF ran down. That showed me he is trying to improve. But he has ingrained habits and mechanical issues that conspire against going the other way with consistent success. He’s between a rock and a hard place in trying to implement something that his stance and swing mechanics resists and in being discouraged away from pulling the ball because of the shift.

  3. murakami says:

    Fire Cashman and Girardi goes with him. The issues with this current lineup only become more pronounced next season and the season after that, unless they waste high-end prospects to get back a bat to try to approximate the one they so willingly gave up. The ‘special’ bats are a few years off. Guess they should have thought of that before making that stupid trade.

  4. Robinson Tilapia says:

    On vacation. Up to 8 again.

  5. murakami says:

    Teixeira is clearly trying to make some adjustments left-handed, so it’s not for lack of effort. It’s just that he’s done something his whole career that now seems to be betraying him and that won’t age well. He might have to wait for the off season to attempt to make a lasting change. Meanwhile, he is a very flawed lefty hitter whom the manager refuses to drop down in the order.

  6. Bartolo's Colon says:

    what is the problem with tex? has yankee stadium screwed him up. has his swing/stance, at least from the left side, changed much since 2008/2009? It is amazing to see the his numbers nose dive over the last 4 years. is he just declining? if so, i am scared to see what he does at 35.

    • murakami says:

      It may be a decline in bat speed that a severe upper cut swing and collapsed back leg conspire to make even uglier. Painful to watch him get eaten up by changeups and junk away.

    • GardnergoesYardner says:

      I agree, it’s painful to see him wave at every offspeed pitch and miss. Seems like his pitch recognition, and plate discipline is off.

      Of course, we don’t know how much this supposed cold has hurt him. If you had breathing problems and trouble focusing, you’d be susceptible to off speed pitches as well.

      • MannyGeee says:

        this. baseball is a game of cheating, and he is trying to cheat on breaking balls to compensate for ‘something’… is it bat speed slipping? pitch recognition? just trying to shake it up a little bit and adjust on the fly? whos to say. but he is guessing on pitches today that he used to see well and tattoo just 2 years ago.

      • murakami says:

        He’s not in position left handed to even take advantage of identifying a pitch correctly. His weight is behind him and he’s pulling off when he swings, creating roll overs and foul popups. Always had the upper cut and has always been an under the ball swinger, but now, with maybe a loss of some bat speed and further back leg problems, he’s not in position to do damage. He used to be a little more level, even left-handed, and his bat was in the hitting zone longer. Sure, being sick doesn’t help him. You can see how frustrated he is. Like I sad, yesterday, he did manage to drive a pitch the other way for a fairly loud out. I just don’t see his current mechanics allowing him to do that very often. The poor man might need to be made over. Not for lack of effort that he’s having problems. It’s gotten so bad, the Mariners were happy to give Cano nothing to hit yesterday and concede a run just to get to Teixeira.

  7. GardnergoesYardner says:

    I’m an 8. The return of Andy (whatever you make of it)was inspiring, and overall, aside from Sunday’s offense and Wednesday’s bullpen, our team is clicking. Rotation is much improved. Would be a 9 if we didn’t have Tex on our team. Raul’s swing is ugly, points taken off for that as well.

    • MannyGeee says:

      Rauls swing is ugly, but goddam effective. he doesn’t get cheap homeruns.

      • murakami says:

        Ibanez is a professional hitter and has some of the best ABs in the lineup. He can actually hit LHP as well, but they’re going to platoon him.

        I can’t get excited though, about a 40-year old DH/abysmal OF when they could have used a 22-year old with tremendous bat speed and power who could have caught 50 games on days he wasn’t the DH.

        Ibanez would be a good complementary hitter in a lineup that had some live bats in it. As someone who is a stop-gap type hitter though, in a lineup of aging players with no young, live bats that proflie as hit-for-average plus power hitters (other than Robinson Cano), he just doesn’t do much for me.

        • jsbrendog says:


          i dont care about results or that he is basically one of the team’s mvps so far cause he hits almost everytime he needs to when it matters becvause im still mad they traded the young guy i was attached to. awesome

          • murakami says:

            I don’t need to be translated. My point was clear. Your bilious responses to people just means you are disingenuous, and disrespectful of opinions that differ from yours.

            • Ted Nelson says:

              Your point doesn’t need to be translated, it needs to be deleted.

              What does the rest of the line-up have anything to do with Ibanez?

              No live bats? They’re the 3rd best offense in baseball…

              Montero is your solution? I didn’t like the trade either, but let’s not pretend he’s hitting well this season.

            • jsbrendog says:

              i have no issues with other people’s opinions. i have issues with the reasoning behind them being unsound. yeah this guy who is doing really well for the team i root for just doesnt do it for me cause he isnt this other guy i wanted/expected to be where he is.

              come on.

        • Erica says:


          /capslock’d because it’s Monday and c’mon guys.

        • DM says:

          You can’t treat the catcher position as just some spot to get a hitter some ABs. The Yankees acquired Stewart for his skills as a receiver — while demoting a better bat. With the struggles that the starting staff has had until recently, there’s no way Montero would’ve been used behind the plate. And he’s only been catching more regularly for Seattle b/c Olivo went down. If the Yankees have missed anyone, it’s Pineda being in the rotation and going deep into games. They don’t need Montero back; they need what they traded him for.

          • Ted Nelson says:

            They traded him for a player with a significantly greater chance of getting injured than him. This was the risk they knowingly took, and I told you as much at the time of the trade.

            • DM says:

              Who said otherwise? The point is that they needed more starting pitching — not Montero’s contribution either at the plate or behind it. Montero didn’t fit their scheme. And even you can’t deny the rotating DH any longer. Every indicator implicit or explicit was there since Jones was signed and Montero traded. I’d do the deal again in a heartbeat — and so would Cashman. If they had a crystal ball and saw Pineda’s injury in the future, they would’ve tried to trade Montero for a different pitcher rather than clog the DH spot. I wonder if Arizona and Washington are happy with their pitching acquisitions from Oakland. Those names were maligned on this board as being products of their old stadium. I guess switching leagues helps even more.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                They need to field the best team every year going forward, and that trade had a questionable impact on their ability to do so because of volatility of young pitching.

                While I certainly didn’t expect that sort of a start to the season, I don’t remember particularly maligning Gio.
                Cahill has a batted ball profile that he’s unlikely to sustain. His xFIP is right in-line with what he did the last couple of years. The reason I maligned that trade is because Jarrod Parker is about as good on a much more reasonable contract. If it were a different trade and/or contract I might have liked the deal.

                • DM says:

                  Well, we’ve always disagreed about Montero. I just can’t see how he’d get all the plate appearances with the Yankees that all his fans envision without becoming the f/t catcher. And as a side-note about injury, volatility and performance. Catching has been known wear players down at the plate as well. I think guys like Piazza or Posada would’ve posted better offensive numbers if they had been DHs. You get a beat up as a catcher, and no one on the field endures the collisions that a catcher does. Something to think about when projecting the gaudy expectations of Montero’s bat — if you believe in him as a catcher.

                  Regarding young pitching — and like others have mentioned, how do you acquire it? You hope to grow some of your own — but that’s volatile for the same reasons. Pitchers are risky — but you need to have them. In the Yankees context, trading a DH/questionable catcher was worth the risk for an arm like Pineda’s at near league minimum. I don’t think it’s more complex than that. And for the record, if Montero was a defensively mediocre corner OF prospect with the same bat, I wouldn’t have put him on the block — and I don’t think Cashman would’ve have either. He has a natural bat — but that’s it, literally. Your future right-handed power DH is playing 3rd right now — but less and less.

                  And I wasn’t singling you out for the Oakland arms. The tune around here was “Yes, I might trade Montero for King Felix” — but every other name was maligned (like Garza, Danks, Gio G, Cahill, Latos, etc). Although I don’t know how you can say Parker is just as good as Cahill — esp back then after 5 big league innings vs Cahill’s 580+. You might believe he will be — but you can’t say he actually is when he hasn’t done anything on the big league level by comparison.

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    Piazza and Posada might have done even better at another position, but they did really well as it was.

                    I never said to C or DH him. I really didn’t care either way. Heck, while I don’t hate Tex the way a lot of people do… Montero could be getting some of his PAs, some at C, and some at DH. Maybe even try him in RF in AAA a bit in 2011 if you really didn’t think he could C. If his bat played, there would be room in the line-up somewhere.

                    P is still more volatile even than C. It’s not just that there’s marginally more volatility in P than position players… it’s like night and day. I don’t know the figures, but I’d guess that like 1/2 of all P suffer a major arm injury at some point in a given… I don’t know… 5, 10 year period. All those guys miss significant time, and a lot of those guys will never be the same. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if someone who throws as hard as Pineda is at a higher risk. I get the feeling a lot of young P get hurt too, but I also have no data there.

                    “In the Yankees context, trading a DH/questionable catcher was worth the risk for an arm like Pineda’s at near league minimum. I don’t think it’s more complex than that.”

                    They thought so… and you thought so… but that doesn’t make it right.

                    “Although I don’t know how you can say Parker is just as good as Cahill — esp back then after 5 big league innings vs Cahill’s 580+. You might believe he will be — but you can’t say he actually is when he hasn’t done anything on the big league level by comparison.”

                    Because you’re not acquiring what a guy did in the past… and Cahill was very mediocre for those innings. All Parker has to do to be as good as Cahill is be mediocre. There’s no guarantee he’ll do that, but there’s no guarantee Cahill will continue to do that either. Add in that Cahill is getting expensive… and Parker doesn’t even have to be as good as him to have the same value. I would have been tempted to dump Cahill for a lot less than Parker if I’m Oakland. Use that $ elsewhere.

                    Trading Montero for Cahill would have been lunacy in my opinion.

                    • DM says:

                      If Montero could’ve played in the OF, he would’ve been converted years ago. The Yankees have (or had) depth at C in the minors. Like Stick Michael said (and btw, he’s that “some guy” I used to chat with at northern Bergen County watering holes) when asked about him in the OF, “No, he runs like you and me.” I would think you’d notice that yourself watching him play. He’s as uni-dimensional a young “position” player as I’ve seen since maybe Carlos Delgado. I can only imagine how Montero the roving position player would look after seeing a much more athletic and fast kid like Nunez get crucified for blunders. And with starting pitching struggles, you’re not going to use that time to develop Montero.

                      And I didn’t say that P is less volatile than C — just that physical demands of catching lead to less playing time, and less effective offense. Many have been moved out from behind the plate for that very reason — like Mauer. Piazza was the only to post those kind of offensive numbers at catcher — but in the NL, he got full rest on his off days. And his biggest knock on defense was his inability to control the running game. Some pitchers like Leiter actually liked him as a receiver.

                      Regarding Cahill, you said he’s “about as good”. I’d put more value on what an actual big league pitcher has done in the past — in the big leagues — than anything a prospect does in the minors. Not to mention that Cahill is less than a year older despite all his big league experience.

                      And trading Montero for Cahill might be lunacy — but it might also be lunacy to think that trading Montero for any pitcher is heresy. These patchwork ABs you and others seem to find for him don’t add up to an every day player — and unless he became the full-time catcher, that time will only decrease as A-Rod, Tex, Jeter age. A team like Seattle might care less about his position b/c they have so little offense — but that’s not the Yankee context.

                      The cry for Montero when Pineda went down might make sense if they said it should’ve been another pitcher — but when the idea is still to fit him in where he doesn’t fit in, doesn’t. It would have to get a lot worse than it is to start taking playing time from the veterans. And Montero would have to shine brightly in his chances in order to take future time. What he’s done in Seattle is fine for now — but they wouldn’t sit Tex and his glove to play a butcher in the field, and to have another sub-.300 OBA at the plate.

              • Ted Nelson says:

                And I never “denied” the rotating DH. I always said it could work under the right circumstances, I just didn’t expect Ibanez or Jeter or Chavez to have the kind of success they’ve had at their ages. I still don’t really expect that it’s sustainable (though I certainly have my fingers crossed). I didn’t expect Nunez to have the success he did even, and I have always been relatively high on him.

                • DM says:

                  The debate wasn’t about whether it would work or not — or that the concept exists. It was about whether Girardi/Cashman had plans to implement it — which their moves and comments indicated over months before the season began. And the rotation was implemented right out of the gate before anyone was performing hot or cold. Jeter DH’d the 2nd game of the season.

                  • Ted Nelson says:

                    The debate absolutely was over whether it would work. You kept repeating over and over that they’d do it… which didn’t answer the question about whether or not they should do it.

                    I doubted that the situation would arise where it made sense to rotate. That Chavez and Nunez would not be worth getting into the line-up (that they’d think better of putting someone like Nix into the line-up regularly… we’ll have to see how they go there), and that some bat or platoon of bats would make sense getting the majority of PAs at DH. So far Nunez held his own offensively, Chavez has been crushing it, Jeter has hit well enough to justify at the DH spot, and 2 of 3 starting OFs have gone down for extended stretches.

                    I also disputed your erroneous claims that they had ever implemented it before. That Nick Johnson was brought in to play the OF and stuff like that.

                    • DM says:

                      No it wasn’t. And it all stemmed from your anger at Montero leaving. You ignored the interviews and press conferences all claiming back in the winter that they wanted flexibility to give half-days off to all the regulars. You turned away explicit comments from Cashman about flexibility and his rationale for Ibanez over other options. You ignored it all b/c you didn’t like the idea — but that didn’t mean the plan to do it didn’t exist. You even thought the Branyan signing to minor league deal after playing 1st for AZ the year before was some indicator of their “primary DH” preference.

                      My claims about NJ aren’t “erroneous” b/c he got hurt before he was fully utilized in that capacity. In April, with a younger Tex — and injury-laden ST, he still played more times in the field than Matsui did in his entire final season with the Yankees. NJ brought his glove while Matsui was banned from using his at all. And you completely dropped the context of aging veterans with big money deals like Matsui and Posada who were DHs only b/c they couldn’t play the field any longer. The Yankees didn’t sign them to 1 year 10-13 million dollars for one season to play the non-existent DH “position”.

                      You said they wouldn’t rotate the DH — and would essentially have a full-time DH. They haven’t since day one. Nothing arose. Jeter DH’d in the 2nd game — and Ibanez was in the OF in the first few games. And your point about injuries is another one of the reasons why Girardi wanted it. Injuries aren’t an exception. They happen every year. When a player goes down another can take over in the field. DH only types can’t do that for more than a game or two. The question was how would all these regulars get half-days at DH if Montero was their primary DH. Your response was that they didn’t have any plans to rotate the DH. That was the question, not your contorted revision of it. Not pro/con — but are they planning to do it or not. Your personal preference always blurs you to any evidence or indicators to the contrary. You didn’t want it that way — so in your mind neither did the Yankees — despite their comments and moves. I said “They will” you contest with “They won’t” which morphs into “They shouldn’t”. It was will they or won’t they. It became “they shouldn’t” in your mind b/c you hated the idea. See your own words below.

                      Ted Nelson says:
                      January 17, 2012 at 5:50 pm

                      “So, a left/rigthy platoon is a full-time DH?”

                      I am saying that they will not have a rotating DH. This makes your point that they will have a rotating DH void for at least one season.

                      “And what has been said? You take one press conference where Girardi said Montero would not DH “full-time” and somehow jump to the Yankees wanting to constantly rotate A-Rod, Jeter, Swisher, Cano, and Tex at DH with no primary DH.”

                      “A-Rod has DHed about 10 games a year so far… how likely is it that the Yankees suddenly go from 10 to 50?

                      After tonight A-Rod will have DH’d 11 times already. I said these regulars would DH more than they ever have in the past. At this rate that’ll come true by mid-season. It wasn’t a reaction as much as a plan spelled out more and more explicitly from the off-season to Opening day. Girardi wanted flexibility on the roster and he’s used it from the start. Like he said back in Dec — whether you liked the idea or not.

          • thenamestsam says:

            I thought it was interesting to get another extended look at Montero behind the plate the last few days. He is an absolutely brutal receiver, especially on pitches up in the zone. He does way too much stabbing, and I thought he cost his pitchers a number of close pitches in both games. Some people prefer offensive catchers, but current Yankees management is obviously not of that mind currently, so the guy was never going to get much time back there.

            The more I see of him the more I think it was a smart decision to trade him when they did. Whether they got the right guy is clearly still an open question at best, but I think they moved him at the right time.

            • DM says:

              Yeah, I don’t see him as a catcher physically or mentally. I can’t imagine him as a field general or helping a struggling pitcher during a game. He’ll erode to a DH b/c his body and lack of athleticism will get even worse with age. And the work ethic questions don’t point to someone who will overachieve in his weak areas. The Yankees already have their future DHs with untradeable contracts. He’d have to become the f/t catcher, and I don’t think the Yankees saw that in him. The trade made sense.

    • jsbrendog says:

      seriously? you’re taking points off for an aesthetic swing you personally don’t like, someone with no ties to baseball or any baseball knowledge at all when they guy possessing said “uhly swing” is killing the ball right now? he hit a hr off king felix. he has something like 29 hits and 25 rbi. jesus. nothing makes people happy.

      • murakami says:

        MannyGeee says:
        May 14, 2012 at 10:26 am
        Rauls swing is ugly, but goddam effective. he doesn’t get cheap homeruns.

        jsbrendog says:
        May 14, 2012 at 10:40 am
        seriously? you’re taking points off for an aesthetic swing you personally don’t like, someone with no ties to baseball or any baseball knowledge at all when they guy possessing said “uhly swing” is killing the ball right now? he hit a hr off king felix. he has something like 29 hits and 25 rbi. jesus. nothing makes people happy.

        The original post clearly compliments Ibanez as a hitter that doesn’t get “cheated” on his HRs. The main point of his post was not that his swing is “ugly.” But the response post deliberately misunderstood the point of the original post. What’s up with that??

        • jsbrendog says:

          nice try. not who i was replying to.

          it was obviouslyin reply to this and is easily followed in the threads.

          Raul’s swing is ugly, points taken off for that as well.

          thanks for playing though, there are some nice parting gifts for you backstage

          • GardnergoesYardner says:

            It was a joke, the guy’s a beast. Don’t know why every comment needs to be attacked here.

    • Manny's BanWagon says:

      Who cares what his swing looks like, the guy has been raking lately.

  8. Manny's BanWagon says:


    I agree with the commenter (I can’t remember who it is) who deducts a point for the $189 cap in 2014 and 2015, the draft spending caps and the international free agent spending caps.

    I’m tempted to deduct another point for Teixiera because the thought that he’s gonna suck this bad for the next 4 1/2 years is sickening.

  9. Chip Off The Ol'Knoblauch says:

    Yanks win 4 of 6, are one Houdini act away from sweeping the Rays, they beat King Felix and people still want to fire Giardi and Cashman? Sheesh, I’m convinced God and Jesus could run and manage this team and people would still call for their heads.

    Anyway, nice to see Hughes pitching better than I expected and Ibanez getting on a bit of a hot streak after that dreadful spring. I’m still feeling a 7 though. Hughes needs to keep it up, DRob needs to throw less than 25 pitches in the ninth, and Gardner needs to get well soon. Still winning ball games though and that’s all that matters right now.

  10. MannyGeee says:

    I am at an 8 if for no other reason, our starting pitching for the next 3-5 years looks like it could actually be a strength. CC is dealing, Hughes (knocking on wood) looks like he may have turned the corner, Nova has come to play and Phelps has proven he can be effective in the rotation. And, oh nothing, Banuelos & Pineda are legit options for 2013.

    We also survived week 1 of the post Mo era. so hooray for that

    A little bit of a concern with the lineup, as they looked old over the past week and there are no impact bats in the near future.

    • MannyGeee says:

      restated: There are no impact bats COMING UP in the near future.

    • Manny's BanWagon says:

      I agree you have to feel much better about the starting pitching after solid outings by Hughes and Nova as well as ManBan and Betances in AAA plus Phelps looks like he can be a solid back of the rotation starter.

      • jsbrendog says:

        i want hughes to keep this up SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BADLY.

        and since his dl stint the young gun has been killing it in aaa. go team

        • Erica says:

          I want Hughes to keep this up, too! I can’t quit him. As frustrating as he is to watch sometimes, he’s definitely improved. We need you, Phil! Just be phantastic.

    • Reggie C. says:

      The concerns with the lineup are only magnified by Teixeira’s descent into futility. He just can’t hit the ball with authority anymore. Where are the doubles to the gaps? Where are the homers? People talk about AROD’s contract as a weight around the team’s neck, but look at what Teixeira has got owed to him these next 4 seasons.

  11. Erica says:

    I voted an 8 because I’m an optimist and because, RAUUUUUUUULvoldemortIBANEZ.

  12. Greg says:

    In terms of winning the World Series, which is the goal, I am at a 5. Starting pitching has been poor and hitting has been on and off.
    The loss of Rivera will really hurt in the postseason and has already hurt us in the short term.

    Now of course, this means nothing now, but its what I think.

    And I still back the Montero deal because I understand why Cashman did it. His inability to develop quality starting pitching that help us, outside of Wang and maybe Nova since Andy Pettite has begun to bite us in the longterm ass.

    • jsbrendog says:

      the reigning ws champs’ rotation wasn’t setting the world on fire last year either…

      just sayin, YCPB, suze.

  13. Reggie C. says:


    No Pineda. No Rivera. Pretty much no Teixeira.

    I have alot more faith in Prince Fielder’s ability to turn it around ROS than Teixeira. My score is a solid 6; a more than fair accounting considering the bad breaks this Yankees season has sustained. I do enjoy the Cano awakening and Ibanez’s power display. Arod is healthy and so long as he remains so can contribute as a top-5 AL 3B.

    The rotation isn’t in great shape, but Hughes’s 7.2 IP was the week’s highlight and hopeful harbinger of continued quality starts. I dont expect the moon anymore from Hughes … but more quality starts than poor starts would be a good starting point.

  14. Duh Innings says:

    The Yanks should do this:

    - Trade Martin, Swisher, and Ibanez by the trading deadline i.e. get something for guys who could and probably will walk after this season.

    - Pick up the 2013 club option on Granderson then trade him, Rodriguez, and Teixiera in the offseason.

    - After Granderson, Rodriguez, and Teixiera are traded, the Yanks should do this in this order.

    Extend Jeter through 2015 for $37M ($18M for 2014 + $19M for 2015 so he gets $1M raises for another two years.)

    Extend Cano through 2018 (age 36 on 10/22/18) with a 4 year x $18.75M a year = $75M ($90M total 2013-18 with his $15M club option for 2013) deal I think he’d accept. Tell him he will be the vice-captain to Jeter then the captain of the team after Jeter retires or is no longer with the team.

    Re-sign Melky Cabrera for 6 years x $10M a year = $60M (his walk year is the same as his pal Cano’s.)

    Re-sign Juan Rivera for a year and say $3.5M with a $4M club option for 2014 if the Dodgers don’t pick up his $4M club option for 2013 (I doubt they will – they will most likely buy him out for half a mil.) Rivera would still make $4M total for 2013 if he accepted a one-year $3.5M deal from the Yanks ($3.5M from the Yanks + $500K buyout from the Dodgers) and he would double that through 2014 if the Yanks picked up his 2014 club option.

    Reacquire Alfonso Soriano for half his remaining contract (the Cubs would pay and free up $9M for 2013 and the same for 2014 – Theo Epstein would do this to get rid of Soriano as paying and getting rid of $18M is better than being stuck with $36M.)

    Move Jeter to 1B and make Nunez the new SS.

    Start Austin Romine at C, Ronnier Mustelier at 3B, and Mason Williams in CF.

    C – Romine
    1B – Jeter (lone old everyday player and player over 34 as of 7/2/13 the day before Juan Rivera’s 35th birthday)
    2B – Cano
    3B – Mustelier
    SS – Nunez
    LF – Gardner (backup CF)
    CF – Williams
    RF – Cabrera
    DH – Rivera (backup RF; only everyday player in his thirties besides Cano and Jeter as of Cano’s 30th birthday 10/22/12; only everyday player older than 30 besides Jeter)


    Cervelli (backup C)
    Brandon Laird (backup 1B and 3B)
    Ramiro Pena (backup 2B and SS)
    Soriano (backup LF who could share DH with Rivera)


    The Yanks 2013 bullpen could be all homegrown, too, on 5/3/12 if Rivera returns a year from the date he got injured, Randy Choate was re-signed to be the second lefty, Chamberlain, Phelps, and Mitchell were in the bullpen, and Soriano was traded in the offseason (Rivera / Robertson / Chamberlain / Logan / Choate / Phelps / Mitchell.)

    The Yanks 2013 rotation could be 4/5ths homegrown if Pettitte was re-signed and one of the AAA starters was made the fifth starter (Sabathia / Nova, Pettitte, and Hughes in any order / homegrown fifth starter.)

    Under my plan, Sabathia would be the ONLY non-homegrown player on the 25-man roster.

  15. LarryM.,Fl. says:

    I voted an 8 down from 9. My confidence has gone down a bit from observations with the pitching. I do not believe Kuroda will be the steady consistent pitcher against the heavier hitting clubs in the AL. Pineda’s injury has brought down the score. CC, Hughes and Nova will be solid for the Yanks keeping them in games. The offense has been inconsistent with hitting or not hitting Kevin Millwood a prime example of a pitcher who shopuld be banged around and was not. This team with all its excellent hitters has a very tough time getting the timely hit and this its not against playoff pitching so I’m a bit negative on this aspect. The inuries to the defense and offense in general has put a weaker product on the field every night. Until Gardner gets back and Ibanez and Jones play their specific roles as designed in the off season than we will not be as strong a club and the further into the season may bring further breakdowns which can not be repaired.

    If Jeter was to go down for an extended DL of 30 days who covers short. Nunez would be call up and we know he’ll do Ok offensively but he’s no Jeter and Jeter has a ton of detractors out there.

    Teix. inability to adapt to a more productivity AB’s is a concern. He needs to be placed in the backend of the lineup.

    Its only May and their are not many teams who you can pick out and say they are WS bound or have a legit chance of winning but watching the yanks in comparison to last year. I do not see them heading in that direction but its way to early. This why I’m still at a very positive 8. I believe the team for the most part will improve numbers with the win % total.

    • CS Yankee says:

      I too went down from a normal nine to an eight about three weeks ago (after Pineda, Hughes, 2/3rds of the OF out, etc).

      However, if the AAA rotation gets a crusin’, the low-A boys continue to own Sally, they mash the easiest part of the schedule, etc., I’ll be at a nine again by Memorial Day.

  16. CS Yankee says:

    I voted an 8.

    The 15% (or so) that voted a 5 or less just confirms my theory that about 20% of people in the world are wack-a-doodle…having 25% less than the 20% (on the crazy scale), confirms that Yankee fans are a lessor extent of crazy than the population as a whole.

  17. BK2ATL says:

    Been at an 8, staying at an 8.

    Even with our injuries (Mariano, Pineda, Gardner, Swisher, etc.) and underperformance of some key pieces (Tex, Cano, A-Rod, Kuroda, Hughes, etc), we’re still over .500 and very much within the race for the AL East spot. We’ll only get better.

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